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Young People Who Play Video Games Have Higher Moral Reasoning Skills (inews.co.uk)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Young people who play video games, including violent titles, display more developed moral reasoning skills than their non-gaming peers, a study has found. Researchers from Bournemouth University asked 166 adolescents aged between 11 and 18-years old about their video game habits and questions designed to measure their moral development -- the thought process behind determining what is right or wrong. The children and teenagers who said they played more video games from a wide variety of genres had increased moral reasoning scores, including titles containing violent content. Violent games were found to have a positive relationship with moral reasoning while mature content was more likely to produce a negative one, the report published in published in journal Frontiers in Psychology found.

107 comments

  1. But.. but... by sconeu · · Score: 1

    Jack Thompson told me that video games turn kids into real-life killers!!! /s

    [sarcasm indicator added due to ADA requirements for the sarcasm impaired]

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:But.. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think we found the guy with the impaired sarcasm

    2. Re:But.. but... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Jack Thompson told me that video games turn kids into real-life killers!!! /s

      Video games became widespread in the 1990s, and were correlated with a dramatic decline in violent crime.

      There were other factors at play, such as a reduction in environmental lead contamination, but video games likely contributed. Young males in their prime crime years were in Mom's basement playing games instead of out on the street with a gang.

    3. Re:But.. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep.

    4. Re: But.. but... by j33px0r · · Score: 1

      Keen observation.

    5. Re:But.. but... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      And we've found the sarcasm-impaired guy.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    6. Re:But.. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, Jack Thompson ... a simpler time when moral panics and blaming video games for society's ills was largely laughed at and gaming journalism was still on the side of the players.

      These days you have "progressives" doing the same shit with the same bullshit arguments but this time most of journalism is in on it.

    7. Re:But.. but... by mentil · · Score: 1

      The Atari 2600 came out circa 1977, and the NES became widespread outside Japan around 1985. Sure there was growth throughout the decades, but the 80s were marked by a crime wave.

      More relevant than spread was popularity with young adults; the Playstation was the first console that was seen as something for adults; prior consoles were seen as 'for kids', for the most part. Now it was accceptable for a 19 year old to be playing Madden or Gran Turismo or GTA.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    8. Re:But.. but... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      This would mark minors who do not play video games as unusual, not the norm. So why are they unusual, why do they not play video games, what marks them as different from people who play video games

      Well, we all should be able to guess, who would play video games the least, why the testosterone overloaded jock strap douche bag class, celebrated by corporate main stream media, for their ability to sell crap products, looks defined as pretty, lie without qualm and can mostly be professionally managed so as not to be too rapey or at least avoid rape that cannot be hushed up.

      Lies and statistics.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re:But.. but... by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Popularity with (young) adults and spread are very closely related in this case.

      Consider also that the kids with a NES in the late 80s were, perhaps, ten years old on average. A decade later they don't want to give up their gaming habits, so the Playstation isn't just seen as something for adults - it's just the next console for the generation ALREADY GAMING.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    10. Re: But.. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Murder simulators always help me align my moral compass.

    11. Re: But.. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like we found the nerd who can't throw a football and therefore didn't get to use the cheerleading squad as his personal cum dumpsters. NERdS!!!

    12. Re: But.. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. Hating much on the beautiful, the athletic and the socially adept, hunh? Too bad for you, obese zitfaced incel nerd.

  2. Naturally by TimothyHollins · · Score: 0

    They have to learn a lot of mental gymnastics to justify pirating all those games.

    1. Re:Naturally by blahplusplus · · Score: 0, Troll

      They have to learn a lot of mental gymnastics to justify pirating all those games.

      You prove the study right, you obviously don't have high moral reasoning skills. The last 200 years of theft from the public domain by big companies and dipshits like you can't just wait to bend over and get fully raped.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The last 20 years of PC games has been one of Valve and big videogame companies attacking and undermining game ownership and control of game software on the PC by literally stealing the game and chaining it to servers in their office, ensuring the game is never really yours. It's basically fraud on a massive scale. Which began with half-life/counterstrike in 2004.

      Given the overwhelming amount of corruption in america, and the success of big corporations having undermind our rights to own the products we buy. There's a good chance people like you cannot morally reason yourself out of a wet paper bag.

    2. Re:Naturally by lactose99 · · Score: 1

      you need to get back on your meds

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
    3. Re:Naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have to learn a lot of mental gymnastics to justify pirating all those games.

      You prove the study right, you obviously don't have high moral reasoning skills. The last 200 years of theft from the public domain by big companies and dipshits like you can't just wait to bend over and get fully raped.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The last 20 years of PC games has been one of Valve and big videogame companies attacking and undermining game ownership and control of game software on the PC by literally stealing the game and chaining it to servers in their office, ensuring the game is never really yours. It's basically fraud on a massive scale. Which began with half-life/counterstrike in 2004.

      Given the overwhelming amount of corruption in america, and the success of big corporations having undermind our rights to own the products we buy. There's a good chance people like you cannot morally reason yourself out of a wet paper bag.

      Select title(s) are restricted by select compan(y/ies), therefore I'm entitled to pirate all titles from all companies.

    4. Re:Naturally by Z80a · · Score: 1

      He can't, the meds are now too expensive because the patents and copyright last too long, which allowed horrifying mega monopolies on medicine.

    5. Re:Naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah it was really easy to see that copyright is indefensible.
      Information is post-scarcity so there's no reason not to give everyone a copy.

    6. Re:Naturally by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      I think the clocks run out on any patents for trepanning though. You hold him down and I'll chisel the hole so that the evil spirits can escape. If that doesn't work we can swing by the bait shop and get some leaches.

    7. Re:Naturally by Z80a · · Score: 1

      It was even worse because was not a "spiritual belief", but some sort of backward science that believed you had to balance the four humors (blood, black bile, yellow bile, phlegm) to keep someone healthy, so if you had excess of blood, trepanning time.

    8. Re:Naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'll take the convenience of Valve over the PITA that was floppy and CD based games any day of the week.

    9. Re: Naturally by bn-7bc · · Score: 1

      Well the game was never realy ypurs to begin with, you had an (often non transferable) to use it (other limitations probably applied as well), ok as long as the apis the game used remained compatible with yor os the game maker had no way of remotly stopping the game from working, but what game that has single player is at this point in tome depending on the developers server for single player (steam to verify keas maybe) but appart from that ?

    10. Re:Naturally by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Trepanning was around long before the four humours theory. Plus the treatment for excess of blood wasn't trepanation, it was bleeding. Obviously.

    11. Re:Naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which is what the leeches are for

    12. Re:Naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I saw nothing about entitlement. I do see concern about a historic pattern of users being simultaneously (1) villified for controlling the game (2) having no control over the game. But hey, let's assume you're right and the masses respond to the problem by feeling entitled - the problem still stands, unaffected by your finger pointing to Some Other Thing Happening.

      It's not like it's just games. When your coffeemaker needs to have permission to run, the product owns you.

    13. Re: Naturally by fazig · · Score: 1

      What game? You may be ask Ubisoft about that one as they've implemented crazy always-online DRM into a couple of their purely single player products in the past. And they got a lot of flak for that.
      You may argue that their games aren't really depending on those connections over the internet, after all they've all been cracked sooner or later, but that is certainly what those software studios are trying to make their games act like.

    14. Re: Naturally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I trepanned a leech and made a mess. It's all Trump's fault. :(

  3. Finish them off? by sycodon · · Score: 3, Funny

    I just ran this guy down in my 1969 Mustang. Should I steal his stuff and finish him off, or give him a Med Pack and send him on his way.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Somebody showed me Grand Theft Auto when it came out. Moral reasoning skills?

      You can have sex with a prostitute. Then if you kill her, you don't have to pay!

      Wowzers. I grew up on Pac-Man and Asteroids. Different world.

    2. Re:Finish them off? by Shaitan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "You can have sex with a prostitute. Then if you kill her, you don't have to pay!"

      Of course you don't have to pay if you kill her. Unless she has a pimp then you might need to kill him too but realistically I think he'd write it off. I mean clearly you are crazy, that bitch is dead anyway so she isn't going to be spreading word and hurting your rep, and it happens so rarely you just write it off as shrinkage.

      The moral of the story? Prostitution should be legal so that sex workers enjoy the same legal protections as everyone else. The boys in blue are a giant heavily armed gang and you generally don't want them gunning for you.

    3. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That you can do these things, then think about it is what leads to moral reasoning. It's called learning.

    4. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that you don't have to pay her, it's that you get your money back. Geez, with how you tell it you'd swear that the game was promoting a "dine and dash" mentality.

      Adding this as I'm sure without it people wouldn't understand the jest this was stated in.

    5. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey now, GTA: San Andreas does have a pretty strong message of staying the fuck away from crack.

    6. Re:Finish them off? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Geez, with how you tell it you'd swear that the game was promoting a "dine and dash" mentality.

      No, in this case it's more a of a "dine and bash".

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    7. Re:Finish them off? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Wowzers. I grew up on Pac-Man and Asteroids. Different world.

      What if those asteroids were sentient, you ever think of that?

      They are just there giving you good space then BLAM.

      At least in GTA you don't saw the prostitute into pieces and shoot the pieces (or maybe that was in an update).

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    8. Re:Finish them off? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I grew up on Pac-Man and Asteroids. Different world.

      Sure, because cannibalism is so much more moral than shooting someone. Whatever.

    9. Re:Finish them off? by lgw · · Score: 4, Funny

      The boys in blue are a giant heavily armed gang and you generally don't want them gunning for you.

      Nah, you just drive through a car wash and it's fine.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    10. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steal his stuff and give him a MedPack. You can justify it by saying you are just charging him the cost of an emergency Med Pack.

    11. Re:Finish them off? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For most healthy humans, they know how to draw the line between imagination and reality. In a video game there is no lasting life consequence for your action, if you die, then you start the game over again or just respawn. In real life we don't see Gen Xers jumping off buildings because of all the platform games they played. Because we know it isn't real, and much of the violence in video games, is often played to see what will happen, because there are no consequences, and there is always a reset switch ready for any major mistake. I can play a game where I wipe out woodland creatures, however in real life I feel bad for having to setup a kill trap for that mouse which is chewing threw the back seat in my car (After numerous human traps have failed), heck I would normally just take a spider and put it outside vs just killing it.

      Now if Grand Theft Auto was setup where you had to learn the life story of every person you have ran over, spend the rest of the game with a non-save, non-restart and non-quit state. Learning about the harm you have done, spending years of game time in jail. For those who played the game would be playing it like in real life.

      Video games give us an outlet for a what if, nothing mattered, we are able to take risks in games that we wouldn't in real life. Heck just running down a mountain in Fallout isn't something I would do in real life, because a simulated fall where you loose 100HP vs a real fall where you may survive, but you will be hurting for much longer.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    12. Re:Finish them off? by hey! · · Score: 2

      Let me make an important distinction here: there is a difference between moral reasoning ability and moral behavior. Personally I think that moral behavior is much, much harder to manipulate than moral opinions.

      Why might a game like GTA improve moral reasoning ability? Well, let's look at one of the most important theoretical ideas in modern philosophical ethics, Kant's Categorical Imperative. The most widely known formulation of that is as follows:

      Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.

      Without going into the reasoning behind this, Kant argued that the following, lesser known formulation is logically equivalent:

      Act in such a way that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, never merely as a means to an end, but always at the same time as an end.

      This is probably more useful to anyone who is creating some kind of test of moral reasoning ability. You evaluate someone's ability to understand how actions either treat people as things to be used vs. persons having intrinsic importance. So it's not inconceivable that GTA would help someone score higher on a score of moral reasoning. In the game you use everyone else as a means to an end (e.g., as an object of gratification or a tool in a more elaborate strategy) all the while conscious that these are not real people and that you are doing something which in real life would be morally reprehensible.

      What is less clear is whether playing the game would have any effect on actual ethical behavior. But you could say the same thing for attempts to shape young peoples' moral character by, say, sending them to Sunday school. Sunday school imparts scriptural knowledge of virtues like temperance, charity and prudence, but it doesn't appear to affect attendees future behavior as much as it affects their opinions about other peoples' behavior. Likewise I wouldn't be surprised to see GTA affect players' reasoning abilities or even opinions (although not necessarily in a predictable way), but I'd be astonished if there were any kind of uniform and widespread effect on behavior.

      Which is not to say there aren't outliers in either case; there's bound to be. However those outliers are set apart by their character independent of the thing in question.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    13. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The thing is: most players are capable of separating fact from fiction. Meanwhile you have these slobbering moral-panic idiots who can't tell their heads from their asses.

    14. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How's your insurance?

    15. Re:Finish them off? by Solandri · · Score: 0
      This whole video game violence nonsense is a fundamental misunderstanding of correlation vs causation. Playing violent video games is correlated with increased violence in real life, so the people against video games jump to the conclusion that video games cause real life violence.

      In reality, there are two other possible modes of causation. And those two are probably more likely to be the correct ones.
      • People who are violent in real life are drawn to playing violent video games.
      • People with a predilection for psychopathic behavior are both violent in real life and like to play violent video games.
    16. Re:Finish them off? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      People don't have a simple "monkey see monkey do" relationship with media, but that doesn't mean it has no influence at all.

      In fact the best games, the best books and TV, are often the ones that do affect the player/viewer. Star Trek is a great example, although it wasn't exactly subtle in how it went about it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    17. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Playing violent video games is correlated with increased violence in real life

      Wrong. The opposite has been observed.

      In fact, there is a marked decrease in adolescent crime during the two weeks after any GTA release.

      People with a predilection for psychopathic behavior are both violent in real life and like to play violent video games.

      Also wrong. Psychopathy is a mental condition, not a category of behavior and people who are psychopathic and lack coping skills are still not typically violent. Many are bosses, CEO's, and politicians.

      Both of these facts are so well known it's a wonder when people assert the opposite.

    18. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing I have been curious about since this debate started is how playing violent video games affects the behavior of people driven to justifiable force. There isn't exactly a lot of data on it, I can't say I've seen any news stories where a guy mentions that he was able to defend himself against home invaders because he learned cover tactics and target priority from shooters (or because he hurled turtle shells at them and jumped on their heads for that matter). But I can't help but wonder...

    19. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even GTA sics cops on you. Even when you kill someone in the desert, ocean, atop a mountain.

      If you really had any business at +2 it would be after you noted the current meta, not some trivial shit. GTA:Online (the shared MMO) has brought the game's yield up insanely (more than any piece of media in all of history) and development has marched in response. The game encourages griefing at every turn against other human players, not polgyon models. It discourages substitutes to their GTAbux, keeping the money tree well guarded.

      This isn't exaggeration - cashing in on hours of work requires driving glass vehicles all around town while the game yells alerts at everyone to shred you with any of the one-button idiot-friendly killmobiles available. Sorry, you died, now buy your way up. Some players exploit the game's shitty mesh network to avoid this entirely (just block port6672 actually) but most will never know and only know explosions.

      To remind you of The Point, profits are being kept highest by maintaining a malicious environment, hours of work become undone in a blink. But I'm sure the LOL KILL HOOKERS gag is what's really indoctrinating cruelty.

      Don't worry Mr. Thompson, I have karma but you're not worth it.

    20. Re:Finish them off? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Are there Paragon points?

      Do Medpacks have a buy/sell value?

      Do Medpacks replenish if you run out completely?

      Do I have a two-digit number of Medpacks?

      How much money and loot does he have?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    21. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Pac-Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

    22. Re:Finish them off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Pac-Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

      Ahh yes... aren't we all..? Erh.. we ARE... aren't we? Where are my pills, I can't find them in this darkness... *bum* *bum* *bum* I can't hear myself think... AHHH a GHOST!

      CAPCTHA: puberty ...ahhh puberty and Pacman

    23. Re:Finish them off? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Somebody showed me Grand Theft Auto when it came out. Moral reasoning skills?

      Video games are a way to explore how we'd feel about doing things that are considered morally questionable without actually doing any harm. When I accidentally gun down a civvie when playing a game, I feel pretty crap about it, that gives me an indication in real life that I wouldn't really like going around and hurting innocent people. By the same token a lot of games are set up to reward helpful or selfless acts, I.E. give RandomDyingNPC a medpack and he goes and tells the town what a good fellow you are and the merchants give you a 10% discount. OTOH, gun down a few members of the local town council and they'll stop trading with you.

      GTA isn't a good example because it's designed to be a game where you can be chaotic, but even GTA takes a moral stance on things. The worst player character, Tommy Vercetti still showed certain virtues (I.E. was loyal to his friends), even Trevor Phillips' fucked up sense of morality had reason to it and was used as an example of what not to do. However to look at morals in video games the Bethedsa/Obsidian RPG's are the best examples (Fallout 3/NV/4, KOTOR) light side made you respected, dark side made you feared.

      OTOH, if you went out and played competitive sports, you're taught that selfishness and arrogance are good virtues... No-one ever gets a trophy for the most assists in sports.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  4. Subscription only site by marcle · · Score: 1

    Subscription required to actually, you know, read the article. So I didn't bother.

    But you can bet I have a very strong opinion on the contents!

    1. Re:Subscription only site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's available archived here:http://archive.is/kN45L

      Not sure how valuable it is since, it's in the headspace of the APA which is totally cucked.

    2. Re:Subscription only site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good think your opinion and $1 will get you a cup of coffee

  5. Games prime you to think about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And gamers especially like being able to help NPCs for some reason.

    1. Re:Games prime you to think about it by Drethon · · Score: 1

      And gamers especially like being able to help NPCs for some reason.

      I've read some theories that people who can't save money are people who can't picture the future where they will need that money, I wonder if other moral issues are similar where people just can't think out and picture the consequences of their actions. By playing through moral scenarios of any kind, people are kind of forced to think about the situation and can see it somewhat in real life.

      Though I'm not sure how this works with games that take away any consequences. Maybe real life experience complements game experience (as in the examples mentioned above with killing the prostitute to avoid paying, real life experience tells us the consequence while the game exercises the mental scenario). IANAP (I am not a psychologist)...

    2. Re:Games prime you to think about it by lgw · · Score: 2

      I've read some theories that people who can't save money are people who can't picture the future where they will need that money, I wonder if other moral issues are similar where people just can't think out and picture the consequences of their actions. By playing through moral scenarios of any kind, people are kind of forced to think about the situation and can see it somewhat in real life.

      I think there's something to that, but I think you missed something more basic here. In order to enjoy video games (or movies) you require a certain minimum level of ability to think abstractly. Some percentage of the population simply can't. People who play video games are going to be able to reason about anything slightly better than the general public, statistically, but it's just correlation without causation.

      Games that require any sort of problem solving (as opposed to just action in the moment) will raise the bar some more, and you'd get a larger statistical correlation with ability to reason about anything.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:Games prime you to think about it by Drethon · · Score: 1

      I've read some theories that people who can't save money are people who can't picture the future where they will need that money, I wonder if other moral issues are similar where people just can't think out and picture the consequences of their actions. By playing through moral scenarios of any kind, people are kind of forced to think about the situation and can see it somewhat in real life.

      I think there's something to that, but I think you missed something more basic here. In order to enjoy video games (or movies) you require a certain minimum level of ability to think abstractly. Some percentage of the population simply can't. People who play video games are going to be able to reason about anything slightly better than the general public, statistically, but it's just correlation without causation.

      Games that require any sort of problem solving (as opposed to just action in the moment) will raise the bar some more, and you'd get a larger statistical correlation with ability to reason about anything.

      Good point, I'm being guilty of correlation without causation in my theory here too. The question of does something cause something else, or are people better at something else also attracted to that first something.

    4. Re:Games prime you to think about it by epine · · Score: 1

      Basically, if you don't use a matched control group, you're shooting causality duds. Matching control groups is an art form, so even there you're not out of the weeds.

      Children who grow up in homes with fewer books eat more ketchup, both of which correlate with poverty and low scholastic attainment.

      * poverty causes ketchup
      * ketchup causes poverty
      * poverty causes book burning
      * book burning causes poverty
      * low attainment causes ketchup
      * ketchup causes low attainment
      * low attainment causes book burning
      * book burning causes low attainment

      Several of these have been seriously advanced in the academic literature.

      [*] There are other ways to dispossess books other than burning books as cheap coal, but taking that into account would have made my list very long.

    5. Re:Games prime you to think about it by epine · · Score: 1

      Obviously, I missed some.

      The way I would properly model this is as follows:

            num_hypothesis_sets = 3^choose(k,2) for k correlates.

      In this model, I've allowed A to cause B to cause C to cause A, but not A to directly cause B and B to directly cause A.

      So for each pair (u,v) you get { u causes v, v cause u, no relationship } and each pair can be selected from that set of three items independently.

    6. Re:Games prime you to think about it by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      There's evidence that video games can improve cognitive function. For example, a show called Mind Field had an episode where the host tested his maze-solving abilities before and after playing video games for a week. The result was a clear improvement in spatial awareness.

      This makes sense because video games are just simulations of some aspect of the real world, and the player is essentially practicing how to behave in those situations.

      Anecdotally speaking, Kerbal Space Program taught me how to calculate orbital transfer windows and suicide burn timing, while Factorio taught me how to solve network flow problems. Granted, I don't expect most people to pick up calculus or linear programming from games, but just being engaged with something mentally challenging will produce benefits of some kind.

    7. Re:Games prime you to think about it by lgw · · Score: 1

      In terms of studies, though: people who play KSP and Factorio are statistically much better at circuit design, and probably at heart surgery and patent law, than the general public. You can't conclude much from that, obviously.

      I do think that gaming of any kind (not limited to computers) that requires problem solving will of course make you better at solving similar problems, just because you've thought through the problem. It would be amazing if someone could leverage that for some real world benefit, but I've never heard of it. "Educational games" have thus far been pretty weak.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  6. Then why do I hear these stories by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    of the "domestic disturbances" broadcast on Twitch when the S.O. interrupts the guy's Fortnight game?

    1. Re:Then why do I hear these stories by Shaitan · · Score: 1

      Because his SO didn't play enough games to learn morals.

    2. Re:Then why do I hear these stories by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Interesting

      of the "domestic disturbances" broadcast on Twitch when the S.O. interrupts the guy's Fortnight game?

      The same reason if you worked in a union shop 30, 40, 50 years ago you'd hear the same thing through a 2nd or 3rd party. The difference is people are being caught because it's caught on video, in turn people can actually be prosecuted with evidence.

      What? You think "domestic disturbances" are new or something? The upside in some cases is it actually catches the instigator leading to more appropriate outcomes then simply "it's all the males fault." And of course it also catches some people abusing themselves in order to try and get the other person fucked over.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  7. ... Witcher ... 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who has played this game to completion (with DLC's) will have downloaded a full update to their moral radar.

  8. Curious result by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So violent video games lead to higher moral reasoning skills, but mature (by this they mean 'M' rated games) games don't. However, you look at their own study data (full study here) in particular Table B1, they show that there's a nearly perfect correlation (.98) between violent and mature. I don't think I've ever seen a correlation that high in any study, but it's besides the point. Since they're that strongly correlated how do they get the result as stated in the summary?

    Maybe I just need to read the whole study instead of skimming through it, but the results seem strange to me. I think that this is obviously a study that would benefit from multiple repetitions and with a larger sample size.

    1. Re:Curious result by Shaitan · · Score: 1

      Yeah that threw me off as well. Most violent games get automatically rated M for graphic violence.

    2. Re:Curious result by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there's a near-perfect correlation, but not necessarily.

      Violent titles tend to have violence. Do you brutally murder a civilian? Do you spare someone begging for their life? Do you intervene to save an innocent? Your main tool is murder.

      Mature content is developed for mature people. Adults have well-developed social senses, so they can readily ingest things that play on that. Do you blackmail that sleezy bitch so she screws you behind the salon? Do you murder a bunch of worthless guards while they beg to be let to see their children again? Do you kill the nobility off slowly while they cower in fear just so you can see the look in their eyes after they've trampled the people so badly? Do you laugh while you're doing it?

      Mature content soaks you in immorality. As a fantasy, a story can take you into the life of a pristine hero, it can face you with difficult realities of moral decisions, or it can steep you in the kind of disturbed indulgence denied by day-to-day civility. The further you get along this scale, the more mature we label it.

    3. Re:Curious result by bigdavex · · Score: 1

      Did they control for the age of the player?

      --
      -Dave
    4. Re:Curious result by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      There's a difference between mature in the sense that you're using it and what it means in the context of the study. From my reading, that means any 'M' rated game which doesn't necessarily deal with mature adult situations. Typically it just means that there's sufficiently graphic violence and/or profanity. The problem, I think, is that almost any game that gets an 'M' rating is going to have what's described as either violence or intense violence as a content descriptor.

      As a quick test, I did a search on the ESRB website for 'M' rated PS4 games. The results only display 25 titles per page (and I have no idea if it consistently returns the same 25) but of those 25 games on the first page of results, only 1 was 'M' rated without containing Violence or Intense Violence as a content descriptor. That game was Nekopara Vol. 1 which is listed as only containing Sexual Themes. If I look at games which are rated 'T' (teen rating) I still find plenty of titles with Violence as a content descriptor, but a large number only list either Fantasy Violence or Mild Fantasy Violence.

      I haven't read through the entire study, but I have a feeling that it would be pretty easy to have a flawed methodology on top of potentially confusing anyone who's reading the results and not aware of what "mature" constitutes for the purposes of this study.

    5. Re:Curious result by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      So violent video games lead to higher moral reasoning skills, but mature (by this they mean 'M' rated games) games don't.

      I don't think "mature" means quite that in this context. It seems as if they view "violent content" as being distinct from other "mature content", so even though either can contribute to an M rating, and even though there's a strong correlation between violence and the M rating, "mature content" is still something else. Check the Video Game Content section in particular to see them treat them as separate issues and draw distinctions between them.

      Sadly, however, they never provide a definition for what "mature content" actually means. The closest I saw to them spelling something other than violence out was when they listed off "nudity, prostitution, guns, drug dealing and driving recklessly" in relation to Grand Theft Auto. Given that "mature content" is distinct from violence, I'd be inclined to think it follows along those sorts of lines of sex, drugs, and language.

    6. Re:Curious result by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      True, although my point was the context of violence is important. Violent actions are pretty banal; violence in an emotional context is social training.

      There's a point where it stops being just a game and becomes a simulated experience. Mature minds can handle that; undeveloped minds don't yet have experience in emotional context, and so can handle blowing up video game characters, but can't handle heavy moral judgments while blowing up video game characters.

  9. Have they controlled for variables? by Visarga · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comparing the two populations (gamers vs non-gamers) is only valid if they are similarly distributed with respect to other control variables that might influence moral reasoning. What if age, affluence, level of technological adoption and place of birth have an impact on morality, and are correlated with gaming as well?

    1. Re:Have they controlled for variables? by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They performed regression analysis in the study, but strangely did not include the factor which correlated with socioeconomic status (in this study, whether the participant was entitled to free school meals) as a part of the regression. I'm not sure that they have a large enough sample or are controlling for enough other factors to sufficiently eliminate other causes as an explanation for their result. They didn't look specifically at a lot of other genres of games, and there are some genres or specific games that I think most would assume would have an effect on moral reasoning, at least compared to other games.

    2. Re:Have they controlled for variables? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This research is so retarded... They don't control for *sex*!

      It's boys that play more video games, and it's boys that have higher moral reasoning. The main author is a woman psychologist, which alone explains their reluctance to see a conclusion that is right before their eyes.

      They couldn't file it in their "cyber"-psycho-research, but that's the plain result from their research:

      Boys have higher moral reasoning than girls.

      Incidentally, it is a result that has been confirmed in the wider population as well: Women reach a lower moral state than men, on average.

  10. This sounds convoluted as hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Violent video games = better moral reasoning.
    Adult content (which you have to assume means boobs or other non-covered naughty bits) = worthless dogshit scum of the earth.

    Sounds like a right-wing justification piece to me.

    1. Re:This sounds convoluted as hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      worthless dogshit scum of the earth.

      Hey you said it, not the article.
      And it's true. People who like boobs and naughty bits in videogames are obvious shitlord objectifiers of women.

    2. Re:This sounds convoluted as hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, what was telling for me is that violence and mature content were considered separate things from one another.

      Reminds me of the phrase "drugs and alcohol".

      Violence IS mature content, and alcohol IS a drug, damn it!

    3. Re:This sounds convoluted as hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on the culture you're in.
      In the US sexual content may be referred to as being mature content. While violence is seen in a more liberal context. In general there's no or very little censorship here though as far as content goes that is not accessed by the general public. For example profanity and nudity may be censored on TV. But maybe not in other media that is being sold to adults.
      In China both sexual and violent content may be seen as mature. And both may also be censored by the state.
      Somewhere in central or western Europe there will be a tendency to see violent content as mature and censor it in ways that is at least intended to also affects adults. All while sexual content seen a bit more liberal. Drinking and smoking age may be lower than in the US here as well based on national tradition.

    4. Re:This sounds convoluted as hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're just going to ignore anything that seems to support the conservative view point?

      Isn't that like digging your head in the sand?

  11. How can you shoot women and children? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Easy. You just don't lead them as much.

    Aisle seat please.

  12. Testing Flawed by zferrini · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He only surveyed 166 people? Really and you come to a conclusion with that few people, come on!

    1. Re:Testing Flawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Came to post same thing. Absolutely worthless "study".

  13. What about *realistic* violent video games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean those that depict the actual suffering, and the actual consequences that such actions would have in real life!

    Because those are always conveniently left out.
    I think people only treat it so casually, because we do that.
    (Or you can take the other direction, where it is clear that it's basically just a game of dodge ball or tag or something similarly harmless, and you never act like it's meant to be realistic de-factor serial murdering.)

    I think if we want to protect our children and raise them right, we should depict violence exactly as graphic as it is in real life. And have the consequences be the same too.
    And we should trust them to make the right moral decisions, unless they actually aren't developed far enough to understand such a thing and parenting is required.

  14. Mature vs. Violent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we have violent content and we have mature content, does not mean that violent content is not for mature people, in other words, violence is for kids? Why don't we have much trouble showing kids violence (lego ninjago?), but showing sex or even naked books is off the limits?

    What is mature content anyway? Larry games? Graphic porn games? Mahjong?

  15. Games helped me in another way... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: From DOS onward, it was about making your system as tightly optimized as possible (meant learning your OS) - then this led to securing OS (Windows ones mostly) & then, it was learning to code. This led to my career @ 1st as a techie, then as a network admin, then as a coder from then on circa 1994-2008.

    * Changed everything for me... for the better.

    APK

    P.S.=> You'll only game so long (even my nephew @ Apple doing great heading into his 1st decade there now, tiger teams & all now (very proud of that here) who told me I was his inspiration to get into computing no less, said "Uncle Al, one day, you'll drop the gaming..." & above IS how it happened (1 thing led to another, a better other))... apk

  16. So I guess this means by bobstreo · · Score: 1

    If I'm going to get PK'd for my sneakers or iPhone, it won't be gamers, it will be the non moral reasoning, non-gamers?

  17. Do they define mature content ? (do not mod) by aepervius · · Score: 2

    I am trying to read https://www.frontiersin.org/ar... but for some reason I am not getting anything but a blank page. Do they define mature content as opposed to violent content ?

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  18. swear words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    cut the power to the TVs of these high moral characters as they are in the middle of a game to hear a colorfully moral response

  19. Maybe you have trouble with the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't understand the purpose of games. It's a fantasy, it is not supposed to be realistic.

    Learning can occur with theory and models to build up experience and lead to further inquiry. Nobody makes the students drive the bus on their first day of school. It's amazing how pervasive is the idea that children are just little adults when it is so demonstrably wrong.

  20. Old people who conduct video game research are... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... less likely to be aware that cum hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacy. Also, and even more importantly, this is a voluntary survey with no isolation of parameters.

    Moving along, nothing to see here.

  21. Correlation != causation by sinij · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Correlation does not mean causation. It could be the case that more intelligent kids, that also have higher capacity for moral reasoning, are attracted to video games.

    1. Re:Correlation != causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or it could just be that richer kids, who have more time and resources to play video games, also have more involved and attentive parents.

      Confounding variables FTW.

    2. Re:Correlation != causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, that explains all the massive retards at gaming expos though.. "privileged"

  22. Ditto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the state of the art in social science research; have a few passers-by fill out a 'survey,' interpret the results and crunch the numbers through standard statistical software, then publish the results.

    Who needs a reasonable sample size; who needs a representative sample; who needs a control group or a structured methodology; we must publish or die.

    Now if only Slashdot editors could filter these useless studies out of their feeds...

  23. Games provide immediate feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Combined with the opportunity to behave any way you like, the immediate feedback both for your own behavior and the behavior of others provides an ideal learning-by-trying environment. The result should not surprise anyone.

  24. Higher reasoning, but are they more ethical? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The study seems to say the kids who play violent video games are better at moral reasoning, but does that lead to more ethical behaviour? A person can be great at moral reasoning and still choose to make the immoral choice. Or are the kids reasoning through and then making better moral choices as a result?

  25. Wealth, IQ, temperament by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    People with books and a good education in past generations did what? Study? Publish?
    Wealthy people with lots of books and a really good education? Support an author?
    People with a few books and much less education who had to find work?
    The sales of self improvement books?

    Now lets try that with computer games?
    Well educated with the free time and wealth to enjoy a lot of different computer games as they are published.
    Paying full price and having the free time to enjoy the computer games.
    Poor but decades later they collect classic computer games that are decades old?
    Decades later they have the wealth and free time to enjoy a computer game hobby.
    People who are poor and have hours to play computer games every day.
    Inner city areas with lots of crime? Stay inside and play computer games?
    Is the reasoning from the wealth, books, education? With computer games as a hobby?
    The escape from the crime rate of an inner city by playing computer games places that person in a more moral place than many in the same generation?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  26. HELLOO ... HELLOOO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *knocks on forehead*

    ANYBODY HOME? HUH? THINK MCFLY

    *Shanghai flat affect*

    *Bill explains that is his forehead, not actual house*

  27. habit not act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You po po fuck. Virtue depends on habit, not reasoning. Aristotle knew that. If you mean that "moral reasoning" does not engender virtue then what's so moral about it ? Oh I know ... gaffotizing Trotsky-sluts want blo-jobbing your students to be an aspect of post-mod virtue. Gotterdamerung

  28. Mature content and moral reasoning by Cipheron · · Score: 1

    ... is a chicken and egg question. Are mature games more likely to reduce your moral common sense, or are those lacking moral common sense more likely to be drawn to smutty games?

  29. "Moral Development"? by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

    People do not generally agree as to what is "moral" and what is "immoral",
    so the idea that there could exist a test that can measure "moral development"
    is the kind of social-science bullshit that keeps cropping up here.