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Tesla Angers Autonomous Vehicle Experts By Promising 'Full Self-Driving' Model 3 (cnn.com)
Tesla's now taking orders for Model 3's with a "full self-driving capability" -- meaning "automatic driving on city streets." CNN reports that experts on self-driving technology "say CEO Elon Musk is playing fast and loose with definitions, overselling the technology and potentially creating safety issues."
Experts say Tesla's "full self-driving" feature is really a partial self-driving feature that handles minor driving tasks such as keeping pace with other cars on a highway and still requires diligent human oversight. To most autonomous vehicle experts, "full self-driving" means a car in which a person could safely fall asleep behind the wheel, and the steering wheel and pedals aren't even needed...
Dean Pomerleau, of Carnegie Mellon University, who in 1995 drove a minivan that steered itself across the country, told CNN Business he has "grave concerns" about Tesla's practices on autonomous driving. "Claiming its vehicles will soon be 'feature complete' for full self-driving is one more step in the unconscionable practices that Tesla is already engaged in with Autopilot -- overselling its capabilities and reliability when marketing its vehicles and then blaming the driver for not reading the manual and paying constant attention when the technology inevitably fails," Pomerleau said.
CNN notes a 2018 study which found that 71% of drivers believe they could already purchase a self-driving car today -- despite the fact that currently there are no such fully-autonomous vehicles. "Experts warn that this lack of understanding could be deadly as humans may put too much trust in systems like Tesla's, leading to crashes...."
"A Tesla spokeswoman declined to comment on details around the automatic driving option, and pointed CNN Business to fine print on Tesla's order page that tells buyers the currently enabled features require 'active' driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
Dean Pomerleau, of Carnegie Mellon University, who in 1995 drove a minivan that steered itself across the country, told CNN Business he has "grave concerns" about Tesla's practices on autonomous driving. "Claiming its vehicles will soon be 'feature complete' for full self-driving is one more step in the unconscionable practices that Tesla is already engaged in with Autopilot -- overselling its capabilities and reliability when marketing its vehicles and then blaming the driver for not reading the manual and paying constant attention when the technology inevitably fails," Pomerleau said.
CNN notes a 2018 study which found that 71% of drivers believe they could already purchase a self-driving car today -- despite the fact that currently there are no such fully-autonomous vehicles. "Experts warn that this lack of understanding could be deadly as humans may put too much trust in systems like Tesla's, leading to crashes...."
"A Tesla spokeswoman declined to comment on details around the automatic driving option, and pointed CNN Business to fine print on Tesla's order page that tells buyers the currently enabled features require 'active' driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
'To most autonomous vehicle experts, "full self-driving" means a car in which a person could safely fall asleep behind the wheel, and the steering wheel and pedals aren't even needed...'
No. That's "any even remotely sane person" -- not "most autonomous vehicle experts"...
1. Purchase said car advertised as having "Full Self-Driving capability"
2. Discover it does not, in fact, do that
3. Sue Tesla for false advertising
4. Profit!
Death and destruction due to the 'discovery' of said capability may be hazardous to your health.
When you combine distance sensing cruise control that can work in stop and go traffic and down to a complete stop and then combine it with automatic lane centering it seems pretty automatic.
I have a '19 Subaru that will lane-assist correct but not lane center, but the cruise control is literally useful in rush hour traffic and will full stop (but not re-start) the car. I'm told automatic lane centering will be a '20 or '21 feature. I think they could add it via software to my car, but they won't for sales reasons.
I agree that this isn't autonomous, but to most people it seems that way. To me autonomous is it drives itself and I can sit in the back seat.
Again: Any experienced programmer with a significant driving history will tell you that full autonomy -- as in, get in the car, say "take me to work", and you never touch a control -- either won't ever happen or will take much longer than people like Musk are claiming.
Think about all the situations you've personally encountered as a driver in the last year. For me, that includes: Poorly/unmarked roads, missing/incorrect signs, very heavy rain, snow, black ice, police checkpoints, first responder vehicles on the median necessitating "slow down/move over" maneuvers, detours due to downed trees, and, of course, no end of bullshit from bad drivers the required me to take action to avoid an accident.
On that last point, how many times when driving have you noticed another driver playing with his/her phone or exhibiting poor lane discipline or who knows what that triggers your defensive driving skills, all things that a car won't detect and respond to on its own?
Oh, and as for mixing autonomous and human piloted vehicles on the same road? Yeah, nothing to worry about there.
The best we can hope for in the next couple of decades is very limited use of fully autonomous vehicles, as in special highway lanes. Non-highway roads are too irregular and too poorly marked to support full autonomy.
Tesla is irresponsible even calling what they have "Autopilot". What they really have is "driver assist" and that is what every other carmaker calls it. Lane alerts, car following, etc are NOT Autopilot. As a result you have a ton of idiots cruising down the highway asleep and crashing into semi truck trailers getting beheaded because they think the car will save them. It will NOT. It is just a "driver assist". So call it that. But Musk is Barnum AND Bailey and needs to create the biggest hype to sell his overpriced cars and feed his massive ego. Fortunately Tesla will not likely to survive another 5 years and we can stop hearing about this crap.
As a UK resident I have been brought up with mainly manual gearboxes on cars, on the odd occasion that I drive an automatic for a while the moment I go back to a manual I inevitable stall at the first dozen or so junctions as I have forgotten to use the clutch. While this is a minor inconvenience in the case of an automated gearbox it has the potential to be fatal when scaled up to other "semi autonomous" functions. I think we either have a car with no human input at all or a manual car otherwise people jumping in and out of cars with varying autonomy will start assuming the car will take care of differing things. If some cars brake for you and other models don't what sort of confusion is going to ensue?
> "full self-driving" means a car in which a person could safely fall asleep behind the wheel, and the steering wheel and pedals aren't even needed..."
AND can drive anywhere on its own, in any conditions, at least as safely as an average human driver. And that is not at all possible yet.
Just look what is touted as "AI" today, or all the things that are "revolutionary". Sure, these people corrupt the language, but the real problem is the morons that are their target and believe all that crap.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Someone who was very careful about what they say and do, someone concerned about risk, would not have built SpaceX and Tesla into what they are, in such a short time. Musk is not a careful person, he's a daredevil.
> Every other car company seems to be more responsible than Tesla
Every other car company sells MILLIONS of cars. They want to protect their highly successful companies. Tesla sells THOUSANDS of cars and wants to sell millions. Tesla want to increase their sales a thousandfold, and they won't do that by be being careful.
Musk doesn't mind taking risks, and often doesn't even speak time thinking about the risks before he does or says something. That's part of his success and will probably be his downfall, unless he hands control of the companies over to more careful people, as they transition from "trying to become a major car company" to "is a major car company".
not for me, I love to drive and will want to take the car to the track as well. I enjoy driving and being in control. Sometimes I like to go faster than I should. My drive to work the last 4 jobs has been less than 5 miles so I really do not need that self driving thing.
If I were to travel to Mexico I might want it but I think there others might try to hit a tesla to mug you and steal your car! LOL
Your Average Joe
Autopilot works in California, Arizona, new mexico where the weather is perfect. I can tell you in Ohio (with newer Honda Civic) my assist features are fooled and/or disabled all the time by snow and rain and metal plates on the road (wants to stop). There is salt residue all over the roads and the lines are hard to see, so the lane assist is messed up also. They have a long ways to go before I trust any kind of autonomous vehicle in this area
Lane assist doesn't even work in the winter here, even if there is a frosty/gravelly haze on the road in the middle. And winter is ALWAYS. Fail!
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I read this yesterday and immediately concluded that Elon Musk must not care if he kills people. Flamethrowers were just the beginning.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
No.
Don't be fucking silly.
There aren't even the correct sensors available for a fully autonomous vehicle. Maybe with a $2 million array.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Meanwhile, Florida is investigating two more Tesla crashes.. Isn't this ratio to Teslas on the road getting kind of high for $80K vehicle range?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Musk doesn't mind taking risks, [with other people's lives]
FTFY
Someone who was very careful about what they say and do, someone concerned about risk, would not have built SpaceX and Tesla into what they are, in such a short time. Musk is not a careful person, he's a daredevil.
It's fine and dandy for him to be a daredevil firing rockets into space.
It's not OK at all for him to be a daredevil filling the highways where my family drives with cars designed and marketed to lull their drivers into a false sense of security.
Thats great. But I don't want daredevils selling cars who drive on roads with me. Go blow yourself up in a rocket. But don't get on the road with your crappy "self-driving" junk.
Gotta do something to keep sales rolling, and recover the 10% price dump the stock took when Elon announced they were closing their dealerships...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
For 3, how many countries have the word "America" in their name? HINT: it's just one. So it's a convenient shortening of the longer term. Much like it's not Argentina, it's the Argentine Republic. It's not Mexico, it's the United Mexican States, and it's not France, it's the French Republic. It's the Federal Republic of Germany, not Germany. America is short for United States of America - and should be unambiguous as it is the only country that uses that word.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
There aren't even the correct sensors available for a fully autonomous vehicle.
Yes, there are.
And we have autonomous cars since decades, they are just not ready for sale yet. All big German and Japanese brands have autonomous cars, and that is the problem with Tesla, Google, Apple etc. instead of ganging up they develop their own mediocre copies.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
It's Unlimited?
Rick B.
I agree with Elon on this one. Today's aircraft autopilots are fully capable of piloting an aircraft from takeoff to landing and could likely handle gate-to-gate with just a little work. They can even handle takeoff and landing on carriers.
Yet, even in the air with almost nothing to hit, we still require an attentive pilot in the cockpit at all times. Aircraft autopilots are not allowed by regulation to operate as level 5. But we still call them autopilots and have done so since the days in which they were far less capable including being completely unable to handle their equivalent to city traffic - takeoff and landing.
The automobile application is not so different from the aircraft application to warrant a radical redefinition of an already common word.
Ok well I guess we'll see how they do first blizzard then. They may be in the ditch with the first and second year drivers.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Experts, meet marketing. Marketing, meet experts. Chokra, fetch me my bucket of pop corn. Start.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Never would, never will, will always fall short enough of the mark to never be trustworthy. Don't risk your life.
let the man do his job. i hope he gets the job done. in any case, i will check it out on cnn.
No, you're not in America. You're either in North America, or South America. Those are the continents. If you say "I'm in America", then you're in the USA. If you say you're in North America, then you're in Panama or one of the countries up to and including Canada. If you say you're in South America, it's Colombia down to Argentina/Chile. Saying you're in America without meaning the USA is highly ambiguous.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Fully autonomous cars will be a reality when and only when my wife, who is blind, can legally have such a car drive her to any location at any time and in any weather she might wish. At that time I shall be happy to buy such a car but not until.