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EU's Plan To Ban Sale of User-Moddable RF Devices Draws Widespread Condemnation (theregister.co.uk)
Reader simpz writes: The Register is reporting that the EU is looking to block users from tinkering the firmware/software of their RF devices. This seems to have been very under reported, with a fairly short consultation period that has now expired. It could force manufacturers to lock down phones and routers etc to stop you from installing the likes of Lineage OS or OpenWRT. The way this is written it could stop devices like laptops or Raspberry Pi's having their software changed. From the report: The controversy centres on Article 3(3)(i) of the EU Radio Equipment Directive, which was passed into law back in 2014. However, an EU working group is now about to define precisely which devices will be subject to the directive -- and academics, researchers, individual "makers" and software companies are worried that their activities and business models will be outlawed. Article 3(3)(i) states that RF gear sold in the EU must support "certain features in order to ensure that software can only be loaded into the radio equipment where the compliance of the combination of the radio equipment and software has been demonstrated." If the law is implemented in its most potentially harmful form, no third-party firmware could be installed onto something like a home router, for example.
Just lock it down to the point that it will never transmit on licensed bands. What's the problem?
Every week the EU plans something that draws widespread condemnation (usually because it's tyrannical). Glad I don't live there.
as it is effectively done in phones, where the radio is controlled by a separate processor.
The radio part of a router could also be implemented in a hard-to-update chip+firmware.
A law against murder? Nazis? Being a Nazi murderer?
Given all the other pervasive surveillance in the EU, UK, and US, why don't they just put up a bunch of fucking wide-spectrum antennas with their own SDRs and watch for signals running outside of legal specifications, while leaving us to use our hardware however we like?
This may not be a popular opinion, but the SDR genie is out of the bag and rather than inhibiting law abiding citizens from benefitting from them, perhaps they could instead work on detecting and catching intentional violators of the laws, as well as hacked equipment. It will be necessary in the long run anyways, and it doesn't restrict the average person's rights, responsibilities, or licensed ability to transmit in any way. The average person doesn't know how to upload illegal firmware anyways, so the barrier to entry is already high enough.
Everyone can see that this is an obvious tyrannical move correct?
Destroy any modifications that can disable snooping and control apparatus
It sounds like it's just meant to not allow users to control the radio tranmissions, similar to how in the US the radio device has to be FCC-approved, and you can't for instance boost your CB power to 50 watts. If software allows you to turn your router radio up to 11 (like DD-WRT) does, perhaps it is just that component of it they want to control?
12:50 - press return.
Won't this just create a market for mail-order devices from other countries, just like the DVD region lockdowns did?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
are they also banning ADC ? That's really all you need to generate a radio signal with software...
It sounds like it's just meant to not allow users to control the radio tranmissions
You mean the transmission amplitude? That's what the rest of your comment implies. But they want to ban people from loading any new firmware, not just from controlling amplitude.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Translation: baseband will be locked, OS won't be.
It sounds like it's just meant to not allow users to control the radio tranmissions, similar to how in the US the radio device has to be FCC-approved, and you can't for instance boost your CB power to 50 watts. If software allows you to turn your router radio up to 11 (like DD-WRT) does, perhaps it is just that component of it they want to control?
There is a difference between "type accepted" and the sort of power I have as an amateur or professional. A Citizens band radio is a low powered unlicensed service. I an allowed to modify or build anything. But hey - if the EU says this is a great thing, the good citizens will comply.
Sounds like the Volksradio is coming back, as the EU starts to demand and enforce complete conformity, and obedience to their benevolent governance. And sure enough, they are out defending this in the threads.
So go ahead and mod me down, good compliant citizens. Differing opinions are dangerous.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Yes, it's overly dramatic bullshit that has no effect on the elections, where people can prevent this crap,
That's the difference between the EU and other places - no amount of elections can "correct" what the EU chooses to do.
It's cruel dictatorship by committee, so no one person is actually responsible for the suffering the machine generates.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...because if everyone can "mod" the devices to let's say "outside" their designated frequency range, we're in for real trouble on the airwaves.
Before the non-radio amateur crowd thinks I'm on the "powers that be" side here, then I've got to tell you where I come from on this. I've been building and modifying radio transmission equipment pretty much all my life as an hobby, and a wet dream of mine as a kid, was to freely be able to build any kind of transmitter and receiver I wanted to, regardless of laws and regulations, but that's not very practical in the real world, the only way to do this legally (and even know what you're actually doing) is to become an electrical engineer with a degree in RF technology, or become an licensed radio amateur, why is that you might ask, you might even ask what the relevancy here is, well, it's not simple to explain - but I'll try my darnedest to explain it:
Imagine you have a piece of equipment that CAN go outside its designated range, and you mod it so you can transmit on a broader range, say - increasing the bandwidth so you can get more throughput and cover more frequency "ground" so to speak.
This can and will create all kinds of hell for existing communication devices, maybe even those used for emergency, alarm systems, medical equipment and much more.
The reason there's an requirement for a technical license to even be able to operate in certain bands (especially with modified devices, modified by you and other experimenters) is that through that technical knowledge you'll gain by becoming a licensed radio amateur, you'll learn how to deal with making filters to prohibit spurious emissions to leak through your own equipment, you'll also learn respect for design and how to avoid making serious mistakes on the airwaves, whether this is digital or simply as in the olden days "analog" with speech / Morse-code (which is very similar to digital transmissions, except, very slow and ..old), you'll respect the band-plans already put aside for experimental use (which you're free to use, under respect for the rules, as long as you actually know what you're doing).
Now, imagine you modified a transmitter to cover so much of the bands that you interfere with medical equipment in a nearby band (frequency), now we have a real problem on our hands that can actually cause lives to be in danger, even if you don't notice anything yourself. You'll be creating all kinds of confusion for those using this equipment, and eventually get caught by your country's FCC team who constantly monitor all frequencies for unauthorized traffic, interference etc. It's hard to explain this to laymen who doesn't know the technology behind this, it's no joke - there are entire careers made out of understanding RF spurious / parasitic emissions, especially those designed in SOHO devices that has to meet the strictest FCC rules in order to be released to the market. Even small modifications can create equipment to misbehave, and you'll have equipment that no longer meets the criteria for acceptable spurious emissions into our wide spectrum of band-plans.
Radio amateurs have for the longest time, been the pioneers of such technology, and there's a reason we're allowed to do experiments like this, because we're qualified to do so (not everyone of course, some I've met, sadly - doesn't even understand the basics, but - at least they had to go through a long course learning about the basics, so they'll at least keep within the legal boundaries of what they CAN and CAN NOT do on the air).
Now - modify the software of your routers ALL you want, this isn't the issue, the issue is when you start modifying your hardware (especially the RF part) to go beyond what it was designed to do, even if you're good at coding - doesn't qualify you to be a RF technician that fully understands this, and this can be a dangerous combo).
RF interference is a real thing, and it's dangerous - only proper knowledge can remedy this, and there must be certain requirements met to ha
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
This was a post by TheRegister .CO.UK which right now, with the UK parliament voting tomorrow on Brexit, should be taken as another anti-EU flame.
The EU has occasionally, over the decades, come up with some really dumb shit but so far only the EU has done anything to protect citizens privacy rights online.
The way this is written it could stop devices like laptops or Raspberry Pi's having their software changed.
No, it isn't.
Its intention is to lock down the frequency and power output of any radio transmission within the parameters that the device passed RF EU approval for.
But spin it a certain way and you can upset a lot of people.
The FCC did something recently in the US as well and there was drama over it. If you read into it carefully it made sense. They want to ensure the RADIO part is as the device was sold as. If radio and Firmware are separate (like Android and co) no problems. If there is no separation ... well you will need to demonstrate you still pass EMI .
the radiowaves are sparse. You cannot impose on your neighbour a fingerprint which causes them outage or even more serious mess with pacemakers or medical band.
Now if a piece of hardware doesn't have separate radio then yes this pretty much stops such devices being moddable.
It's the same old story, just a different scope. There are billions of already locked down devices on the market today. Yet, creative souls keep finding ways to break all those devices free. Worst case scenario, you can buy some old, easily breakable devices on eBay or from a pawn shop. It's not like they all area going to disappear from the market any time soon.
I'm actually a certified CPA. Paying a ~half percent less in one tax regime does not offset the fact that the vast majority of the money went to the biggest corporate owners, not 95% of Americans who got basically chicken scratch.
Taxes got moved around, calling it a significant tax cut for the middle class is a flat-out lie.
There is nothing wrong with letting people keep more of their own money.
"taxes was reduced by 3%" - Nope. Your state tax burden went up accordingly, no more writeoff there, so they simply shifted. Calling it a significant tax cut for the middle class is a flat-out lie from a Trumptard who can't do math.
Also, taxes is plural, so you say were, not was. #Educating the Republicans
Good comment.
You'd better hope there is an exception for amateurs, otherwise that hobby will pretty much be dead.
If you are a CPA you are full of shit. Comparison of the 2017 to 2018 standard deduction states otherwise.
https://www.kdpllp.com/2017-vs-2018-federal-income-tax-brackets
My god the TDS at Slashdot is astounding. And I didn't even vote for the asshole.
Nothing could possibly go Wong.
Nope. Your state tax burden went up accordingly, no more writeoff there, so they simply shifted. Calling it a significant tax cut for the middle class is a flat-out lie from a Trumptard who can't do math.
Almost all of the tax cut went to the multi-billion dollar corporate owner / inheritance class. And Trump caused the deficit to skyrocket in the process, so it's doubly retarded.
The problem for you is that didn't actually happen significantly. Trump simply gave the richest who pay the least % in taxes more of your money.
It's all a big "what if".
The reality is there's very little motive for wide-spread abuse. People just don't do it.
The few that do operate outside the allow frequency, well there are already laws to deal with that.
Look at the downside though: suddenly vast amounts of citizen/civic-born innovation are hindered.
It's the RF equivalent of "think of the children".
"so no one person is actually responsible for the suffering the machine generates." = Representative Government. We know, fangirl, you prefer a retarded Dick-tater like Donald Drumpf who can't even lie competently. Too bad, faggot.
Did this originate with the morons who developed Doppler weather radar? The ones that were too f*king stupid to get their own dedicated frequency for an important life safety service and used the 5 GHz ISM band instead? So WiFi screws with it?
ISM has been a garbage band for decades, what with police radar, door openers, radio controlled toys, etc.
Have gnu, will travel.
"Help, I'm being oppressed by Europe's government!" -Uh, no, you're crying from your mother's house in Incel, Colorado...
Over the years I've exclusively used opensource projects such as "Tomato" to run on my routers because not only are they extremely stable but they're also extremely useful too often having more features than you normally need. And in the case of Tomato firmware (and it's sucessors) often a much nicer interface to boot too. I specifically won't buy any router that isn't supported. My last major router which handles all the traffic in my household is a monster dual 1Ghz ARM Netgear R 7000 router which I hopefully won't need to replace anytime soon.
Except, they don't. You're presuming that Chicken Little is correct about the basic premises of the situation. He isn't.
The radio IC already has its own firmware, separate from the application controller. That is true even if you buy them on the same chip, as with many of the offerings from Nordic Semi. This is about the firmware that controls the radio itself; the part that already is a binary blob you install that allows the radio to work. It isn't about the ARM processor that runs the application firmware that you, as a consumer, think of as "the firmware."
Of course you know that as a licensed amateur radio operator in the United States, one has frequency privileges near and inside the 2.4 GHz ISM band. You can quite legally modify a home router for Amateur Radio use.
As long as you aren't in a country where that wasn't suddenly rendered illegal, that is.
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
As a Licensed Radio Amateur you should know that even a Receiving device can generate spurious products if you mess with the firmware.
And no, a Router is not a receiving device.
Thankyou for an extremely good response - anyone messing about with RF for educational purposes is great, but, as you consider, interference is a real concern and some way to introduce that person to bandplans, licensing, and all the regulated stuff that makes it slightly less fun, but still worthwhile would be good.
Unfortunately I suspect short of a 'want to mess with this and learn stuff? become a ham!' labels on everything, it will be an uphill struggle!!
I remember radio theory in high school (early 90's) was very limited to a simple microwave demonstration with a low power waveguide and some metal rods which you could rotate to demonstrate polarisation (etc). 1 lesson. It's a shame, but there's a lot to cram in in the curriculum.
73'
People are making a fuss out of nothing..
Since day one, if you wanted to use radio equipment it had to be Compliant.
And if you modified it, it was no longer Compliant.
So if you want to modify compliant equipment, it is up to you to have it re-certified.
Unless you are a licensed Radio Amateur. Then you can self-certify the continuing Compliance of your Ham gear.
The radio IC already has its own firmware, separate from the application controller.
There's nothing in there called an "application controller". Did you mean the CPU?
This is about the firmware that controls the radio itself;
Yes, that's the firmware I'm talking about. I know I didn't specify, but an intelligent person could have determined that from context.
It isn't about the ARM processor that runs the application firmware that you, as a consumer, think of as "the firmware."
You obviously don't know what I'm thinking of. Next time confirm before coming on like a hard-on. Since I used to hack and tweak some of the old Motorola phones, I'm quite well-acquainted with radio firmware, thanks. I used to flash different ones on the regular.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I don't think the objection is to the lockdown of the radio devices themselves. The worry is when these laws come into effect, the manufacturer's response is to lock down everything, including non RF related components. TP-Link responded in this fashion to the FCC passing similar regulation, and Linksys did so as well for all but their flagship WRT series. I think it was resolved a while ago and I think the FCC decided to play ball and clarify the the ruling was only to be in regards to emitting equipment only, not the user interfaces and non emitting equipment but the scare was real for a while.
While a lot of trouble could be made by a dedicated hacker out to cause harm and some potentially self made radio equipment, is there really an issue in need of a fix and does it in any way get solved by forcing compliance on consumer tech? Honestly I'm not seeing it. It's a problem that doesn't really exist and a solution that doesn't really work.
It isn't "their" money. Why do you keep saying things like that?
I will agree that there are too many tax loopholes that let the investor class pay far less than the top marginal rate on a regular basis. That could stand some correction.
"Trump simply gave the richest who pay the least % in taxes more of YOUR money." - Verbatim. Trump isn't closing any loopholes he isn't opening elsewhere.
Old phones (esp. pre-2008) were "single processor" -- they used the same CPU for BOTH the radio AND running general software. That hasn't been the case for YEARS, especially since multi-core CPUs and ARM TrustZone became the norm. For all intents and purposes, the "radio" functions now run on their own virtually-isolated CPU that "regular" software (including the OS itself) can't touch.
Old phones (esp. pre-2008) were "single processor" -- they used the same CPU for BOTH the radio AND running general software.
Not those Motorola phones. They absolutely had a separate radio processor, which did have its own firmware. It was just technician-flashable, and the technician tools were readily available on the internets.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In the USA you have some freedom to work with science and share your results.
That person in the USA gets smarter and can even educate people with their results.
Innovation spreads all over the US and more people build and share results.
In the EU laws stop science and nobody smart gets to have the freedom to experiment.
The EU educates people about laws.
People buy a product in the EU and are told how it will be used under EU laws.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
-1, nice. How much are you guys getting paid?
Why is this a problem? Because bandplans change.
The problem with frequency hopping is it’s hard to keep it from stepping all over someone else’s allocation.
The problem with crypto is it’s hard to tell it from jamming signals.
Why is this a bad combo? Because you’re jamming the radio gear used by lots of deep-pocketed companies at once. Someone will be able to make life unpleasant enough for the FCC to motivate them to track you down.
If you’re going to do FHSS and encryption, don’t be an idiot - keep it in an ISM band.
Of course you know that as a licensed amateur radio operator in the United States, one has frequency privileges near and inside the 2.4 GHz ISM band. You can quite legally modify a home router for Amateur Radio use.
As long as you aren't in a country where that wasn't suddenly rendered illegal, that is.
You still have power limits with this equipment. Since spurious emissions are typically a constant fraction of (and sometimes grow more than proportionally with) actual power output, you may well end up causing interferences with your equipment that the original configuration did not.
And at least in my country amateur radio transmissions have to be of trivial matter, not the transfer of important files from point A to point B. I live in a small European country, which most likely did not come up with this rule by itself, therefore I would assume that a similar rule applies to most radio amateurs worldwide.
Therefore even with a full amateur radio license, you can not modify your random ISM device to transmit at 10W without having a solid handle on your spurious emissions, you can not use a modified ISM device to extend your home network to some distant building, and you can not make methods&processes for modifying existing ISM equipment by unskilled people available.
A number of years ago my neighbor asked me if I was a HAM radio operator. I wasn't, neither was he, although he was an EE of some stripe. His garage door had been opening and closing on its own. I had noticed some weird WiFi issues. Eventually everything calmed down again but the best we could figure out from the variety of weird stuff going on was that one of the other neighbors has playing with radio equipment. I imagine when the population gets more dense there's even more opportunity for chaos even when everything is behaving mostly in spec.
What the EU takes away, China will provide at a fraction of the cost.
Still, why the hell does the EU want so badly to fuck every freedom their member countries have?
I know why of course, money and power, lots of it! Fuck the EU and all other states wanting to rule, death is their only salvation.
Paying less taxes is not having money going to you. You mean that the biggest tax reduction went to corporations? Also, what's the problem with that since companies will typically pass along costs through increased prices?
open source SDR radio software stacks, and to a lesser extent the firmware for SDR transmitters if it is open source or has knobs for tweaking output power, would run afoul of this.
Which means this is a direct assault on open source effectively. Normally I would hesitate to do this, but perhaps it's time to call in RMS and the EFF to deal with this?