Samsung Is Working On 'Perfect Full-Screen' Devices With Selfie Cameras Under the Display (theverge.com)

According to a report from Yonhap News Agency, Samsung's vice president of its display R&D group, Yang Byung-duk, said the company is working on making the entire front of its phones a screen, with no need for bezels or a camera cutout of any kind. He said that "though it wouldn't be possible to make (a full-screen smartphone) in the next 1-2 years, the technology can move forward to the point where the camera hole will be invisible, while not affecting the camera's function in any way." The Verge reports: The comments come less than a month after Samsung announced its latest flagship, the Galaxy S10, which is the company's first phone to have a "hole-punch" cut out from its display for the selfie camera. Yang called the S10's Infinity-O display a "milestone" for the company, but suggested that Samsung eventually plans to place the selfie camera under the display itself, removing the need for any cut out or pop-up mechanism.

Comments

Re:What the

[Anonymous Coward]

Have some sense of priority. Stop doing other things to appreciate your pet's efforts.

I know it is just me but

[oldgraybeard]

I find the whole selfie thing to be just odd. How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.
But then it is not my thing so I guess that explains it somewhat.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Re:I know it is just me but

[mschaffer]

Never underestimate the average person's narcissism, but selfie camera's are somewhat useful when video conferencing using a phone.

Re:I know it is just me but

[kurkosdr]

It makes it easy for family shots without having to ask for strangers to take your photo and it's convenient for video conferencing

Re:I know it is just me but

[kylemonger]

It's more important for FaceTime calls where you want to make eye contact with the person you're talking to, instead of them always looking off to the side. The solution was invented hundreds of years ago, the pinhole camera, but we've forgotten the old ways.

Re: I know it is just me but

[GrahamJ]

Sorry to be stepping on your lawn, but there is nothing wrong with being in the picture now and then. There are also situations where it's impossible to both have the phone at the right angle for a shot and to see the screen to frame it correctly.

You mock what you do not understand.

Re:I know it is just me but

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I find the whole selfie thing to be just odd. How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.

I find it odd and somewhat weird/baffling. It's like suddenly there's a whole fucking generation of narcissists who are obsessed with taking pics of themselves and their food and every goddamn thing their dog or cat does.

Yes, we took pictures of ourselves with our old-fogey cameras, but we didn't take 50 of them every day. It just seems shallow to me.

Do they think that future generations will pore over these old pics and study them for clues as to how we lived? Well, they won't- they'll be too busy taking hundred of 3D Hologram selfies and complaining that the bezel is still too thick.

Whoops, gotta go- it's almost time for Matlock!

Re: I know it is just me but

[Type44Q]

How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.

Easy; they're not: they're fixated on [what they believe] other people to be thinking.

Re:I know it is just me but

[rtb61]

Here is how that works. The problem is you not them, I like you take very few photos, just not in the habit because I like you adapted to an age of film and developing costs and you simply did not snap off photos for no reason. Now well there on you phone, snap away and even video, as you see fit when ever you see fit, not because the moment is special but because it might be and take a snap or video and so what, no cost and delete if you do not like it, hence they takes lots and lots of photos because it 'might' be worth keeping rather than can I afford that shot or not.

The phones, the intent is, unrepairability, crack that screen and the phone is dead, NEW $1,000 maybe even $2,000 phone for every failing outside of warranty, MOAR PROFIT, don't trust anything they say in this regard, their goal, forced phone redundancy as soon as possible as often as possible, screw the customer and screw them just as hard as you can, just as often as you can.

Re:I know it is just me but

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile... I would really like a phone that ISN'T thin-bezel or rounded glass so it isn't as fragile...
I would also like a larger battery, and better reception. I also want a headphone jack. Maybe even *GASP* an antenna and a microphone and speaker that don't suck? I also want the phone in the iPhone 4 size range.

Phones can download files super fast, but can barely make a phone call... and everyone is always looking for a place to charge their phone.

Re:I know it is just me but

[Tough Love]

It has practical importance for video chat.

Re:I know it is just me but

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, a lot of women have ditched the whole thing with having a mirror in the purse since the smartphone camera and display can serve the same purpose.

Re:I know it is just me but

[thegarbz]

I find the whole selfie thing to be just odd. How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.

I know right. I mean it's not like family albums existed before the mobile phone and that they were full of pictures of the camera owner right?

Re:I know it is just me but

[AmiMoJo]

It's hardly new, cameras have had selfie timers almost since the invention of the compact.

As someone who occasionally takes a group selfie I much prefer capturing a memory of that event myself than handing my phone over to someone else or mounting it somewhere and using a timer.

Re:I know it is just me but

[Anonymous Coward]

That's some fine rambling there, rtb.

Re:I know it is just me but

[Dixie_Flatline]

They're not taking pictures of themselves FOR themselves, they're taking pictures of themselves for OTHER PEOPLE.

It's not that they're self absorbed, they're trying to share themselves and their lives with their friends. It's just a different kind of socalizing, and it can be done at great distances, asynchronously, with zero cost. They may as well take 5 or 10 to get the shot they want, because why not send a great picture of yourself to your friends, whether you're at home or traveling?

It's just a generational shift. I don't think they're any more or less absorbed with themselves as any other generation, they're just expressing it differently.

Re:I know it is just me but

[thevirtualcat]

Ah, yes. The good old shutter timer scramble. Inevitably, there were two options:

1. The timer is too short: Press the button and run to get in the shot before it goes off. Hope you don't accidentally bump the camera.
2. The timer is too long: Press the button and calmly get in the shot. Wait the remaining 60-90 seconds, smiling awkwardly because you don't know *exactly* when the likely capacitor-based timer is going to fire.

Of course, this was the situation in point-and-shoots. Then, as now, a good SLR would have a remote shutter release of some kind. (Possibly wired.)

Re:I know it is just me but

[thegarbz]

(Possibly wired.)

pffft. Millennial. Back in my day they were literal mechanical plungers threaded through a stainless steel braid. ;-)

Re:I know it is just me but

[thevirtualcat]

Oh, I remember those. My family never had nice cameras, though. If a camera had something like that, it was inevitably a "no, that's not a toy, don't touch that" item.

Better from factors with less perfect screens want

[goombah99]

I think there's use cases for these devices but in terms of market share I think a device with the form factor we have now but with the ability to simulate a large scree would be more welcome. You are sacrificing a lot to get folded screens like for example some protection of the plastic and thickness.

Instead consider alternatives like a second screen that is an attachment that could fold up compactly, be a second battery, maybe host additional features or compute power, and most importantly be replaceable or shared will other phones.

Perhaps one could have your apple/google glasses project additional screens around the phone. That way you still have the tactile input device, and have better registration with your hands and eyes, and you don't look like street corner preacher stabbing at invisble things in the air.

Perhaps one could have a projector on the side of the phone that could project onto a table.

In the end

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather just get rid of the front facing camera. There's no need for it, other than for the social toddlers who want to take selfies all day long

Re:In the end

[careysub]

Some people do videoconferencing for actual work.

Re:In the end

[Anonymous Coward]

just use the rear cam

Re:In the end

[Anonymous Coward]

I use that to see if my anus is clean enough for work.

Re:In the end

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny enough the people with actual work to do go voice-only because sitting around pointing a phone at your face like an idiot doesn't actually get anything done.

Re: In the end

[GrahamJ]

You cannot think of a use, therefore there is no use. Classic.

Re: In the end

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean instawhores and camgirls? Lol

Re:In the end

[DickBreath]

There are important uses for the already existing front facing cameras -- to spy on you.

This new front facing camera that is cleverly concealed behind the screen will be a huge advancement in this area.

Consider the potential applications.

Home big screen TVs with no obvious camera -- but act as government "Telescreens" for big brother.

Your employer can now watch you through your display monitor -- with no obvious camera present!

Any device with a display can be a camera. A thermostat. A digital picture frame. A smart home control panel. A GPS navigator. An office phone with a display.

While social toddlers taking selfies may have been one of the biggest consumers of front facing cameras, there are many other great applications for front facing cameras -- especially concealed ones!

Re:In the end

[DickBreath]

Bash exit code 117 - Structure needs cleaning.

Apple has two patents on hidden cameras

[drinkypoo]

I've posted both patent numbers here before, I'm afraid I'm too lazy to do it again.

One is for a camera whose light-sensing elements are distributed throughout the display, hidden in between the pixels.

The other patent is for a camera in the middle of the display, peeking out from just between four pixels.

Re:Apple has two patents on hidden cameras

[Anonymous Coward]

I've posted both patent numbers here before, I'm afraid I'm too lazy to do it again.

One is for a camera whose light-sensing elements are distributed throughout the display, hidden in between the pixels.

The other patent is for a camera in the middle of the display, peeking out from just between four pixels.

Recall a pop-up camera from top of device....

no, fuck you

[Anonymous Coward]

Why in the flying god damn fuck would I want a motherfucking phone with zero ability to hold it without triggering input? Who are the drooling retards who think the worst aspects of their devices are their biggest selling points? Jesus Christ, shoot these stupid fucks already, I'm so sick of this shit.

Re:no, fuck you

[Anonymous Coward]

+1

Re:no, fuck you

[Anonymous Coward]

+5

Re: no, fuck you

[GrahamJ]

You're right - if you have zero ability to hold a phone properly then I don't know why you would want one.

Might want to work on that.

Re:no, fuck you

[Anonymous Coward]

+999

Re:no, fuck you

[Tough Love]

It's easy enough for the phone to ignore touch input from a band where the bezel used to be.

Re:no, fuck you

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easy enough for the phone to ignore touch input from a band where the bezel used to be.

hush - you're being practical!

Re: no, fuck you

[sound vision]

These are going to be $500+ phones with $80 cases on them, so that compensates for the decreased usability and increased fragility. It also gives the phone its bezel back, but notice how they will buy it regardless. Stupid phones for stupid people is the biggest marketing success story of the millennium.

Re:no, fuck you

[Matheus]

while [ true ]
do
    this+=65536
done

Smart phones and tablets

[oldgraybeard]

The on screen keyboards just suck (for anything useful)! Solve that problem!
I am keeping my old phone HTC G1 (I don't use apps much/anymore) just because it has a tiny keyboard for texts.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Re:Smart phones and tablets

[Stormwatch]

The Fxtec Pro1 sounds like what you want. It's a bit expensive, though.

Re: Smart phones and tablets

[GrahamJ]

If you don't mind being stuck with Android, BlackBerry makes devices for you and the other five people who like physical keyboards.

Telescreens

[mentil]

A camera hidden behind the screen? Will they call it the Samsung Telescreen?
You can't even put tape over it. Do not want.

Re:Telescreens

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously? Moving the camera underneath the screen is what's finally tripping the '1984' alarm in your head? None of the aggressive surveillance, gps tracking, always-on microphones, facial recognition, ministry-of-truthing the internet to push political agendas, and literal thought control all facilitated by smartphone-catalyzed social media addiction bothered you?

Re:Telescreens

[Tough Love]

Why can't you put tape over it? Having trouble following your rant.

Re:Telescreens

[thegarbz]

You can't even put tape over it. Do not want.

I know. I shudder to think of the FBI staring at a blurry picture of my pocket lint.

Note I bet you a marsbar you don't have tape over the top of your mobile phone now and that you're just expressing fake internet rage.

Re:Telescreens

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. I want a phone with NO camera on the front. Front cameras are useless garbage without any redeeming qualities at all. Do not want.

Re:Telescreens

[mentil]

You'd be putting tape over part of the screen, occluding whatever's displayed there (and preventing you from touching whatever is there.)

Re:Telescreens

[mentil]

My phone's camera is normally pointed at the ceiling with me far out of its FOV. A horizontally-facing camera (particularly in my bedroom) is more concerning, particularly if the camera is inconspicuous.

Re:Telescreens

[Tough Love]

When there's a hole there instead of screen, or a notch, then you also don't have anything displayed there. You're not making sense.

way to go orwel

[Anonymous Coward]

now the display can watch you.. and the phone, and the computer display.

put an IoT system embedded into the camera system that is independent of the rest of the system and cctv in everything! :(

captach - miseries

here's an idea

[Cederic]

Hey Samsung, you can have this one for free: Instead of expensively hiding a shite camera behind the screen, add a small second screen on the rear of the device so fuckwits taking selfies can use the main camera and still see their own idiotic fuckheaded visage.

Dear US Patent Office: This idea is mine, now fucking deny any patents on it because whichever cunt is trying to register is a lying shit if they both say they thought of this and pretend it's innovative.

Everybody else: You don't have to buy a Samsung phone if it doesn't meet your needs, including any that implement my suggestion above.

Me: Keep searching for a phone that skips the whole selfie shit, lets me hold it without inadvertent function and fits in my fucking pocket.

Re:here's an idea

[markdavis]

>"Me: Keep searching for a phone that skips the whole selfie shit, lets me hold it without inadvertent function and fits in my fucking pocket."

Exactly. How exactly do you hold and use a "full screen" display with touchscreen everywhere? And, I guess we are "strange" because, like you, I don't want a huge phone. I don't want it to be razor thin either (making it fragile and EVEN MORE difficult to hold). I would much rather have a thicker phone with better battery life, easy to hold, and a smaller (~5") phone that is easy to carry and store.

Using a Moto G5+ right now and it seems to fit the bill pretty well. A tad bit larger than necessary, but at least reasonable. Plus it was unlocked, fast, reasonably "stock", SD card, real headset jack, and $190 new.

Re:here's an idea

[Stormwatch]

It's been done. Meizu Pro 7.

Re: here's an idea

[SuseLover]

Itâ(TM)s called an iphone se

Re: here's an idea

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hey Samsung, you can have this one for free: Instead of expensively hiding a shite camera behind the screen, add a small second screen on the rear of the device so fuckwits taking selfies can use the main camera and still see their own idiotic fuckheaded visage."

The RAZR flip phone did this 15 years ago (assuming NOT sarcasm)

Of course, this will make the phone a bit thicker by a couple mm, so we can't have that!

Re:here's an idea

[Tough Love]

How exactly do you hold and use a "full screen" display with touchscreen everywhere?

The phone just ignores a band of touch input where the bezel used to be.

Re:here's an idea

[Powercntrl]

Hey Samsung, you can have this one for free: Instead of expensively hiding a shite camera behind the screen, add a small second screen on the rear of the device

The Motorola RAZR (the old flip phone, not the Android phone of the same name) had this. You'd close the flip and the small external screen became a selfie monitor.

No one really used that feature at the time, because sharing selfies on social media wasn't a thing yet.

Re:here's an idea

[thegarbz]

add a small second screen on the rear of the device

No. GOD NO. The last thing I need is more fragile crap on a device. Leave the back of the phone made of something nice and durable that can happily get scratched to shit or covered with a thick case thanks.

What a horrible idea.

Re:here's an idea

[thegarbz]

Exactly. How exactly do you hold and use a "full screen" display with touchscreen everywhere?

Palm detection and erroneous touch detection has been a thing for several years now. Or did you miss the "Edge" displays from Samsung which you could hold just fine without it triggering the touch sensors on the edge of the screen?

Re:here's an idea

[markdavis]

>"The phone just ignores a band of touch input where the bezel used to be."

Does that work well or cause occasions of false positives and false negatives?

Re:here's an idea

[AmiMoJo]

This phone already exists, it's called the Nubia X. Full front screen, and a secondary rear screen with camera above it.

Kinda sucks because the rear screen means it's difficult to put a decent case on and you can't have wireless charging. And of course there are two screens to crack now.

Re:here's an idea

[Anonymous Coward]

> Vivo and other Chinese handsets have also produced full-screen devices by **moving the cameras around back (and adding a rear display)**, adopting slider designs, or by creating pop-up mechanisms that hide the selfie camera inside the phone.

Admittedly it was pretty deep into TFA...

Re:here's an idea

[Tough Love]

What is ambiguous about "ignore"?

Another expensive pos

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this $1500 now? Fuck that. Gimme a cheap ass phone and I'll replace it every year.

Re:Another expensive pos

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you get these ass phones? Can I unlock it with a fart or taint recognition?

Dept of Nothing to See Here

[Anonymous Coward]

Just another vector for spying and invasion of privacy. In order to use the device you must be subject to being recorded by it. A camera or microphone that you cannot block or disable should be illegal. This is a way around people putting tape over cameras and microphones.

Re:Dept of Nothing to See Here

[Tough Love]

You can still put tape over the camera if you need to do that, not sure what you're going on about.

Re:An Obscure Chinese Company

[wolfheart111]

Does this, and it works great. Don't remember the name of the brand though.

J3 Is a great

[wolfheart111]

Phone, there is nothing else to improve on it except battery life.

Re: J3 Is a great

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently got a J7. I still miss my J3 sometimes. The J7 is larger and doesn't have the removable battery.

Hurrah! No more "off" eyes

[ljw1004]

When I'm video-chatting with someone, it's disconcerting that we don't make eye contact. Their eyes are always looking above my face or at my ear -- because on their device they're looking at the screen rather than the camera.

When I take selfies with my young kids, again the photos always have them looking slightly off-center, because their eyes are naturally drawn to the screen rather than the camera.

It will make for better photography and video-chats if Samsung can pull this off.

(I read about previous attempts, where they'd have the screen flicker on and off so the camera could pick up light while the screen is off. I never learned whether it succeeded. I imagine you'd end up with a dimmer screen, and poorer light-pickup from the camera. I wonder how Samsung hope to achieve it?)

Re:Hurrah! No more "off" eyes

[AmiMoJo]

LG have demonstrated a semi-transparent OLED display. It's not as good as a normal one and doesn't pass all the light through. Given Samsung always have the best screens on their high end phones I can't see them using that option.

I wonder if they might fold the display somehow. Like roll it up at the edge a little, enough for the camera to be exposed.

Re:Hurrah! No more "off" eyes

[mobby_6kl]

If Samsung could make only part of the display transparent that would be perfectly sufficient even if it's not as good as the normal display. Basically you'd have a small circle the size of the camera lens that is slightly less contract than the rest of the screen - it might be noticeable under some conditions, but not nearly as bad as a hole cut into the screen.

Re:Hurrah! No more "off" eyes

[AmiMoJo]

I was thinking that they could make it so that the status bar area was transparent. "Full screen" photo display would just not use that area. Most of the time it's black with simple icons anyway, so you wouldn't notice the reduced quality compared to the main app viewing area.

Re:What the

[Anonymous Coward]

As if form should follow function. Like OMG! You are so, like, out of touch....whatev's...

I want just one, on the back.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll take uninterrupted screen, thanky!

Ahhhhhh No

[WindowsStar]

I cover the camera with tape. I don't want everyone spying on me. All these breaches in security and apps that spy on you. Apps taking video of you in the bathroom or dressing. Ahhhhhh no. I want to be able to cover the camera and uncover it when I need it.

If you can't see the camera hole

[ayesnymous]

how will you know where to look when taking a selfie?

Re:If you can't see the camera hole

[WoodstockJeff]

It's easy - look for the idiot on the display, and you'll have it nailed!

Solved decades ago

[DrYak]

The on screen keyboards just suck (for anything useful)! Solve that problem!

It has been solved litteraly decades ago using after-market accessories. (The first Palm devices were planned to have pluggable after-market keyboards).
I'm still having the original one paired with my current smartphone.

Nowadays you can find either bluetooth or wired USB accessories. (Of various size, from the "fits in the flap of the phone's cover" all the way to "unfolds/unrolls into a full-blown desktop keyboard")

Manufacturer such as BlackBerry, F(x) Tec, Planet Computers, etc. also produce smartphone/PDAs with integrated keyboards.

But, it turns out, the market for such devices is rather small.
So you're stuck with either after market accessories (Bluetooth or wired USB) or small-scale manufacturer. But don't hope anything from Apple, Samsung, etc. - most users are happy with a "consume-only" device.

It will be explosive

[Anonymous Coward]

After all, it will be a Samsung product.

Re: What the

[Anonymous Coward]

With Samsung seeing is believing

Two questions

[Anonymous Coward]

1. If the camera were small enough to fit in between pixels, then wouldn't it be lousy at capturing light?
2. Wouldn't the screen have to turn off nearby pixels to prevent light from nearby pixels from appearing in selfie photos?

I hate the notches and front facing camera holes. I actually like having some bezel as a place to hold the phone without inadvertently pressing on the capacitive touchscreen. Otherwise, I think pop-up cameras are cool, but I wonder how long they last before breaking.