Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Samsung Is Working On 'Perfect Full-Screen' Devices With Selfie Cameras Under the Display (theverge.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the out-of-sight-out-of-mind dept.

According to a report from Yonhap News Agency, Samsung's vice president of its display R&D group, Yang Byung-duk, said the company is working on making the entire front of its phones a screen, with no need for bezels or a camera cutout of any kind. He said that "though it wouldn't be possible to make (a full-screen smartphone) in the next 1-2 years, the technology can move forward to the point where the camera hole will be invisible, while not affecting the camera's function in any way." The Verge reports: The comments come less than a month after Samsung announced its latest flagship, the Galaxy S10, which is the company's first phone to have a "hole-punch" cut out from its display for the selfie camera. Yang called the S10's Infinity-O display a "milestone" for the company, but suggested that Samsung eventually plans to place the selfie camera under the display itself, removing the need for any cut out or pop-up mechanism.

59 of 89 comments (clear)

  1. I know it is just me but by oldgraybeard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find the whole selfie thing to be just odd. How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.
    But then it is not my thing so I guess that explains it somewhat.

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    1. Re:I know it is just me but by mschaffer · · Score: 2

      Never underestimate the average person's narcissism, but selfie camera's are somewhat useful when video conferencing using a phone.

    2. Re:I know it is just me but by kurkosdr · · Score: 2

      It makes it easy for family shots without having to ask for strangers to take your photo and it's convenient for video conferencing

    3. Re:I know it is just me but by kylemonger · · Score: 1

      It's more important for FaceTime calls where you want to make eye contact with the person you're talking to, instead of them always looking off to the side. The solution was invented hundreds of years ago, the pinhole camera, but we've forgotten the old ways.

    4. Re: I know it is just me but by GrahamJ · · Score: 1

      Sorry to be stepping on your lawn, but there is nothing wrong with being in the picture now and then. There are also situations where it's impossible to both have the phone at the right angle for a shot and to see the screen to frame it correctly.

      You mock what you do not understand.

    5. Re:I know it is just me but by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I find the whole selfie thing to be just odd. How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.

      I find it odd and somewhat weird/baffling. It's like suddenly there's a whole fucking generation of narcissists who are obsessed with taking pics of themselves and their food and every goddamn thing their dog or cat does.

      Yes, we took pictures of ourselves with our old-fogey cameras, but we didn't take 50 of them every day. It just seems shallow to me.

      Do they think that future generations will pore over these old pics and study them for clues as to how we lived? Well, they won't- they'll be too busy taking hundred of 3D Hologram selfies and complaining that the bezel is still too thick.

      Whoops, gotta go- it's almost time for Matlock!

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    6. Re: I know it is just me but by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.

      Easy; they're not: they're fixated on [what they believe] other people to be thinking.

    7. Re:I know it is just me but by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Here is how that works. The problem is you not them, I like you take very few photos, just not in the habit because I like you adapted to an age of film and developing costs and you simply did not snap off photos for no reason. Now well there on you phone, snap away and even video, as you see fit when ever you see fit, not because the moment is special but because it might be and take a snap or video and so what, no cost and delete if you do not like it, hence they takes lots and lots of photos because it 'might' be worth keeping rather than can I afford that shot or not.

      The phones, the intent is, unrepairability, crack that screen and the phone is dead, NEW $1,000 maybe even $2,000 phone for every failing outside of warranty, MOAR PROFIT, don't trust anything they say in this regard, their goal, forced phone redundancy as soon as possible as often as possible, screw the customer and screw them just as hard as you can, just as often as you can.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    8. Re:I know it is just me but by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      It has practical importance for video chat.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    9. Re:I know it is just me but by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I find the whole selfie thing to be just odd. How can individuals be that consumed with themselves.

      I know right. I mean it's not like family albums existed before the mobile phone and that they were full of pictures of the camera owner right?

    10. Re:I know it is just me but by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's hardly new, cameras have had selfie timers almost since the invention of the compact.

      As someone who occasionally takes a group selfie I much prefer capturing a memory of that event myself than handing my phone over to someone else or mounting it somewhere and using a timer.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:I know it is just me but by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      They're not taking pictures of themselves FOR themselves, they're taking pictures of themselves for OTHER PEOPLE.

      It's not that they're self absorbed, they're trying to share themselves and their lives with their friends. It's just a different kind of socalizing, and it can be done at great distances, asynchronously, with zero cost. They may as well take 5 or 10 to get the shot they want, because why not send a great picture of yourself to your friends, whether you're at home or traveling?

      It's just a generational shift. I don't think they're any more or less absorbed with themselves as any other generation, they're just expressing it differently.

    12. Re:I know it is just me but by thevirtualcat · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes. The good old shutter timer scramble. Inevitably, there were two options:

      1. The timer is too short: Press the button and run to get in the shot before it goes off. Hope you don't accidentally bump the camera.
      2. The timer is too long: Press the button and calmly get in the shot. Wait the remaining 60-90 seconds, smiling awkwardly because you don't know *exactly* when the likely capacitor-based timer is going to fire.

      Of course, this was the situation in point-and-shoots. Then, as now, a good SLR would have a remote shutter release of some kind. (Possibly wired.)

    13. Re:I know it is just me but by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      (Possibly wired.)

      pffft. Millennial. Back in my day they were literal mechanical plungers threaded through a stainless steel braid. ;-)

    14. Re:I know it is just me but by thevirtualcat · · Score: 1

      Oh, I remember those. My family never had nice cameras, though. If a camera had something like that, it was inevitably a "no, that's not a toy, don't touch that" item.

  2. Better from factors with less perfect screens want by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    I think there's use cases for these devices but in terms of market share I think a device with the form factor we have now but with the ability to simulate a large scree would be more welcome. You are sacrificing a lot to get folded screens like for example some protection of the plastic and thickness.

    Instead consider alternatives like a second screen that is an attachment that could fold up compactly, be a second battery, maybe host additional features or compute power, and most importantly be replaceable or shared will other phones.

    Perhaps one could have your apple/google glasses project additional screens around the phone. That way you still have the tactile input device, and have better registration with your hands and eyes, and you don't look like street corner preacher stabbing at invisble things in the air.

    Perhaps one could have a projector on the side of the phone that could project onto a table.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  3. Apple has two patents on hidden cameras by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    I've posted both patent numbers here before, I'm afraid I'm too lazy to do it again.

    One is for a camera whose light-sensing elements are distributed throughout the display, hidden in between the pixels.

    The other patent is for a camera in the middle of the display, peeking out from just between four pixels.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  4. Re:In the end by careysub · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Some people do videoconferencing for actual work.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  5. no, fuck you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why in the flying god damn fuck would I want a motherfucking phone with zero ability to hold it without triggering input? Who are the drooling retards who think the worst aspects of their devices are their biggest selling points? Jesus Christ, shoot these stupid fucks already, I'm so sick of this shit.

    1. Re: no, fuck you by GrahamJ · · Score: 1

      You're right - if you have zero ability to hold a phone properly then I don't know why you would want one.

      Might want to work on that.

    2. Re:no, fuck you by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      It's easy enough for the phone to ignore touch input from a band where the bezel used to be.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re: no, fuck you by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      These are going to be $500+ phones with $80 cases on them, so that compensates for the decreased usability and increased fragility. It also gives the phone its bezel back, but notice how they will buy it regardless. Stupid phones for stupid people is the biggest marketing success story of the millennium.

    4. Re:no, fuck you by Matheus · · Score: 1

      while [ true ]
      do
          this+=65536
      done

  6. Smart phones and tablets by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

    The on screen keyboards just suck (for anything useful)! Solve that problem!
    I am keeping my old phone HTC G1 (I don't use apps much/anymore) just because it has a tiny keyboard for texts.

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    1. Re:Smart phones and tablets by Stormwatch · · Score: 2

      The Fxtec Pro1 sounds like what you want. It's a bit expensive, though.

      --
      Circumcision is child abuse.
    2. Re: Smart phones and tablets by GrahamJ · · Score: 1

      If you don't mind being stuck with Android, BlackBerry makes devices for you and the other five people who like physical keyboards.

  7. Telescreens by mentil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A camera hidden behind the screen? Will they call it the Samsung Telescreen?
    You can't even put tape over it. Do not want.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Telescreens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously? Moving the camera underneath the screen is what's finally tripping the '1984' alarm in your head? None of the aggressive surveillance, gps tracking, always-on microphones, facial recognition, ministry-of-truthing the internet to push political agendas, and literal thought control all facilitated by smartphone-catalyzed social media addiction bothered you?

    2. Re:Telescreens by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Why can't you put tape over it? Having trouble following your rant.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:Telescreens by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You can't even put tape over it. Do not want.

      I know. I shudder to think of the FBI staring at a blurry picture of my pocket lint.

      Note I bet you a marsbar you don't have tape over the top of your mobile phone now and that you're just expressing fake internet rage.

    4. Re:Telescreens by mentil · · Score: 1

      You'd be putting tape over part of the screen, occluding whatever's displayed there (and preventing you from touching whatever is there.)

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    5. Re:Telescreens by mentil · · Score: 1

      My phone's camera is normally pointed at the ceiling with me far out of its FOV. A horizontally-facing camera (particularly in my bedroom) is more concerning, particularly if the camera is inconspicuous.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    6. Re:Telescreens by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      When there's a hole there instead of screen, or a notch, then you also don't have anything displayed there. You're not making sense.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  8. here's an idea by Cederic · · Score: 2

    Hey Samsung, you can have this one for free: Instead of expensively hiding a shite camera behind the screen, add a small second screen on the rear of the device so fuckwits taking selfies can use the main camera and still see their own idiotic fuckheaded visage.

    Dear US Patent Office: This idea is mine, now fucking deny any patents on it because whichever cunt is trying to register is a lying shit if they both say they thought of this and pretend it's innovative.

    Everybody else: You don't have to buy a Samsung phone if it doesn't meet your needs, including any that implement my suggestion above.

    Me: Keep searching for a phone that skips the whole selfie shit, lets me hold it without inadvertent function and fits in my fucking pocket.

    1. Re:here's an idea by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >"Me: Keep searching for a phone that skips the whole selfie shit, lets me hold it without inadvertent function and fits in my fucking pocket."

      Exactly. How exactly do you hold and use a "full screen" display with touchscreen everywhere? And, I guess we are "strange" because, like you, I don't want a huge phone. I don't want it to be razor thin either (making it fragile and EVEN MORE difficult to hold). I would much rather have a thicker phone with better battery life, easy to hold, and a smaller (~5") phone that is easy to carry and store.

      Using a Moto G5+ right now and it seems to fit the bill pretty well. A tad bit larger than necessary, but at least reasonable. Plus it was unlocked, fast, reasonably "stock", SD card, real headset jack, and $190 new.

    2. Re:here's an idea by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      It's been done. Meizu Pro 7.

      --
      Circumcision is child abuse.
    3. Re: here's an idea by SuseLover · · Score: 1

      Itâ(TM)s called an iphone se

    4. Re:here's an idea by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      How exactly do you hold and use a "full screen" display with touchscreen everywhere?

      The phone just ignores a band of touch input where the bezel used to be.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:here's an idea by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

      Hey Samsung, you can have this one for free: Instead of expensively hiding a shite camera behind the screen, add a small second screen on the rear of the device

      The Motorola RAZR (the old flip phone, not the Android phone of the same name) had this. You'd close the flip and the small external screen became a selfie monitor.

      No one really used that feature at the time, because sharing selfies on social media wasn't a thing yet.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    6. Re:here's an idea by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      add a small second screen on the rear of the device

      No. GOD NO. The last thing I need is more fragile crap on a device. Leave the back of the phone made of something nice and durable that can happily get scratched to shit or covered with a thick case thanks.

      What a horrible idea.

    7. Re:here's an idea by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Exactly. How exactly do you hold and use a "full screen" display with touchscreen everywhere?

      Palm detection and erroneous touch detection has been a thing for several years now. Or did you miss the "Edge" displays from Samsung which you could hold just fine without it triggering the touch sensors on the edge of the screen?

    8. Re:here's an idea by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >"The phone just ignores a band of touch input where the bezel used to be."

      Does that work well or cause occasions of false positives and false negatives?

    9. Re:here's an idea by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      This phone already exists, it's called the Nubia X. Full front screen, and a secondary rear screen with camera above it.

      Kinda sucks because the rear screen means it's difficult to put a decent case on and you can't have wireless charging. And of course there are two screens to crack now.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:here's an idea by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      What is ambiguous about "ignore"?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  9. Dept of Nothing to See Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just another vector for spying and invasion of privacy. In order to use the device you must be subject to being recorded by it. A camera or microphone that you cannot block or disable should be illegal. This is a way around people putting tape over cameras and microphones.

    1. Re:Dept of Nothing to See Here by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You can still put tape over the camera if you need to do that, not sure what you're going on about.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  10. Re:An Obscure Chinese Company by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    Does this, and it works great. Don't remember the name of the brand though.

    --
    [($)]
  11. J3 Is a great by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    Phone, there is nothing else to improve on it except battery life.

    --
    [($)]
  12. Hurrah! No more "off" eyes by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

    When I'm video-chatting with someone, it's disconcerting that we don't make eye contact. Their eyes are always looking above my face or at my ear -- because on their device they're looking at the screen rather than the camera.

    When I take selfies with my young kids, again the photos always have them looking slightly off-center, because their eyes are naturally drawn to the screen rather than the camera.

    It will make for better photography and video-chats if Samsung can pull this off.

    (I read about previous attempts, where they'd have the screen flicker on and off so the camera could pick up light while the screen is off. I never learned whether it succeeded. I imagine you'd end up with a dimmer screen, and poorer light-pickup from the camera. I wonder how Samsung hope to achieve it?)

    1. Re:Hurrah! No more "off" eyes by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      LG have demonstrated a semi-transparent OLED display. It's not as good as a normal one and doesn't pass all the light through. Given Samsung always have the best screens on their high end phones I can't see them using that option.

      I wonder if they might fold the display somehow. Like roll it up at the edge a little, enough for the camera to be exposed.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Hurrah! No more "off" eyes by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1

      If Samsung could make only part of the display transparent that would be perfectly sufficient even if it's not as good as the normal display. Basically you'd have a small circle the size of the camera lens that is slightly less contract than the rest of the screen - it might be noticeable under some conditions, but not nearly as bad as a hole cut into the screen.

    3. Re:Hurrah! No more "off" eyes by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I was thinking that they could make it so that the status bar area was transparent. "Full screen" photo display would just not use that area. Most of the time it's black with simple icons anyway, so you wouldn't notice the reduced quality compared to the main app viewing area.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  13. Re: In the end by GrahamJ · · Score: 1

    You cannot think of a use, therefore there is no use. Classic.

  14. Ahhhhhh No by WindowsStar · · Score: 1

    I cover the camera with tape. I don't want everyone spying on me. All these breaches in security and apps that spy on you. Apps taking video of you in the bathroom or dressing. Ahhhhhh no. I want to be able to cover the camera and uncover it when I need it.

  15. If you can't see the camera hole by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

    how will you know where to look when taking a selfie?

    1. Re:If you can't see the camera hole by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 1

      It's easy - look for the idiot on the display, and you'll have it nailed!

  16. Solved decades ago by DrYak · · Score: 1

    The on screen keyboards just suck (for anything useful)! Solve that problem!

    It has been solved litteraly decades ago using after-market accessories. (The first Palm devices were planned to have pluggable after-market keyboards).
    I'm still having the original one paired with my current smartphone.

    Nowadays you can find either bluetooth or wired USB accessories. (Of various size, from the "fits in the flap of the phone's cover" all the way to "unfolds/unrolls into a full-blown desktop keyboard")

    Manufacturer such as BlackBerry, F(x) Tec, Planet Computers, etc. also produce smartphone/PDAs with integrated keyboards.

    But, it turns out, the market for such devices is rather small.
    So you're stuck with either after market accessories (Bluetooth or wired USB) or small-scale manufacturer. But don't hope anything from Apple, Samsung, etc. - most users are happy with a "consume-only" device.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  17. Re:In the end by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    There are important uses for the already existing front facing cameras -- to spy on you.

    This new front facing camera that is cleverly concealed behind the screen will be a huge advancement in this area.

    Consider the potential applications.

    Home big screen TVs with no obvious camera -- but act as government "Telescreens" for big brother.

    Your employer can now watch you through your display monitor -- with no obvious camera present!

    Any device with a display can be a camera. A thermostat. A digital picture frame. A smart home control panel. A GPS navigator. An office phone with a display.

    While social toddlers taking selfies may have been one of the biggest consumers of front facing cameras, there are many other great applications for front facing cameras -- especially concealed ones!

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  18. Re:In the end by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    Bash exit code 117 - Structure needs cleaning.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.