Slashdot Mirror


California Man Sentenced To 20 Years In Deadly Kansas 'Swatting' (fox4kc.com)

slipped_bit writes: Tyler R. Barriss, 26, who pleaded guilty to multiple counts of "swatting" attempts, including the case that caused an innocent man to be killed by police in 2017, has been sentenced to 20 years in prison. The case in 2017 was all because of a dispute between two online players over a $1.50 bet in the "Call of Duty: WWII" video game. A total of 51 federal charges related to fake calls and threats were made against Barriss. "Barriss' prosecution in Wichita consolidated other federal cases that had initially been filed against him in California and the District of Columbia involving similar calls and threats he made," reports FOX 4 Kansas City. "Prosecutors had asked for a 25-year sentence, while the defense had sought a 20-year term."

"The intended target in Wichita, Shane Gaskill, 20, and the man who allegedly recruited Barriss, Casey Viner, 19, of North College Hill, Ohio, are charged as co-conspirators," the report adds. "Authorities say Viner provided Barriss with an address for Gaskill that Gaskill had previously given to Viner. Authorities also say that when Gaskill noticed Barriss was following him on Twitter, he gave Barriss that old address and taunted him to 'try something.'"

232 comments

  1. Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "while the defense had sought a 20-year term."

    "Well son you might have been looking at a long stretch, but I managed to get you off with 20 years!"

    1. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you call a law professor you would probably get better ideas about your case and for free. I don't suppose anyone ever thought of such a common sense idea.

    2. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Kid is lucky he isn't spending 60 years in jail as he should be. This is about paying for a crime. He shouldn't even have a chance of seeing the light of day of freedom for 60 years. He got off light and lucky. The justice system failed the public.

  2. Reverse Russian Roulette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Instead of pointing the gun at yourself, point it at someone else.

    Only a matter of time before it went off and killed someone.

    Twenty years seems light considering the number of times he swatted people.

  3. Ars Technica link... by Iwastheone · · Score: 4, Interesting
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-p...

    Ars also has an informative story with lots of links. This guy does deserve the sentence he got. If his jail sentence means others will learn not to do horrendous acts that endanger peoples lives then GOOD! No sympathy for this sociopath or psychopath. Don't parents teach kids that video games are not reality?

    1. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just another fantasyland gamrboi fucked in azzwhole. May there be many ...

    2. Re:Ars Technica link... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This guy does deserve the sentence he got.

      Perhaps.

      But the cop who pulled the trigger, and murdered the unarmed victim in cold blood perhaps should serve some time as well.

    3. Re:Ars Technica link... by yorgasor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Absolutely. For some reason, it seems he's getting off without so much as a reprimand.

      --
      Looking for a computer support specialist for your small business? Check out
    4. Re:Ars Technica link... by rmdingler · · Score: 0

      ... murdered the unarmed victim in cold blood.

      Deity knows, the outcome of this standoff was less than desirable, yet, if you consider the LEOs had none of the foregone knowledge thaat they were not at a house where a murder had already been committed, the police reaction is much more understandable.

      Sigh. I find myself in the rather unenviable position of defending the actions of the often overzealous police, but I can empathize with the position they found themselves in.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    5. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you don't read what exactly the kid did, you don't have a right to comment. He specifically tagetted the officers on the scene and stayed on the phone escalating what he was telling them that was going on inside a room the cops had no eyes on.

      The cop opened the door expecting a shooter about to execute a number of people and rigged up to a bomb that would go off after he completed his task. He should never have been put in that position. It was a killer's approach to get someone else to kill another person.

      If you think anyone tasked with protecting other people's safety would have paused on getting access to that building, you don't know how things like that go down. 99% of the time someone dies. Officer has to do his job so it's a question of if he or she dies or the potential bad guys. Most of the time it doesn't play out like what this story did and every officer who would have paused and got it right this time, nearly every other time they would die.

      And that is precisely your point isn't it? You would rather other people act to protect you and die than you do it yourself because cops are bad in your eyes....

    6. Re:Ars Technica link... by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if you consider the LEOs had none of the foregone knowledge thaat they were not at a house where a murder had already been committed, the police reaction is much more understandable

      Nope, an unarmed man stood in bright lights on his own porch was murdered. I don't understand why the policeman even fucking shot him, let alone got away with that murder.

    7. Re: Ars Technica link... by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you don't read what exactly the kid did, you don't have a right to comment. [...] The cop opened the door expecting a shooter about to execute a number of people

      Given that the policeman didn't open the fucking door and did shoot an unarmed man I think it's pretty clear that you don't think you have a right to comment.

      You would rather other people act to protect you and die than you do it yourself because cops are bad in your eye

      How can I put this. I could have done a better job than that policeman, and I'd seriously fucking hope he's never called out to my house because he's demonstrably more likely to fucking kill me than anybody he's allegedly there to protect me from.

      I don't hate the police, I just expect the law to apply to them. Including murder charges when they murder unarmed people standing in the door of their own home.

    8. Re: Ars Technica link... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The cop opened the door expecting a shooter about to execute a number of people

      Nonsense. He was standing on his front porch, unarmed, with his hands visible, and the cop shot him from across the street.

      Go watch the videos on YouTube.

      Or read the description of the shooting.

    9. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also makes you realize what paranoid psychopathic robot killers cops are. Maybe they need better training. This while situation should have never happened.

    10. Re:Ars Technica link... by rmdingler · · Score: 0

      if you consider the LEOs had none of the foregone knowledge thaat they were not at a house where a murder had already been committed, the police reaction is much more understandable

      Nope, an unarmed man stood in bright lights on his own porch was murdered. I don't understand why the policeman even fucking shot him, let alone got away with that murder.

      As a civilized society, we are somewhat reluctant to recognize the most uncivilized elements of humankind must be dealt with by, hopefully, someone other than ourselves. I neither enjoy nor envy the job of law enforcement... I am merely grateful the task of dealing with the inevitable unpleasantness that is humankind does not fall to me and a few neighbors.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    11. Re:Ars Technica link... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a civilized society, we are somewhat reluctant to recognize the most uncivilized elements of humankind must be dealt with

      The first step is to make sure we don't give them a badge and a gun.

    12. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know the game Hogan's alley on the nes? Imagine it was real and let's see you get a perfect score. Losing means you killed an innocent person or a bad guy killed you.

    13. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's two problems here. First the people who decide who gets a badge and gun also think it's OK for law enforcement officers to shoot people for any reason, not the least of which being that they were frightened. So no one in law enforcement is doing the right thing from top to bottom. Second problem is a lot of people in the USA, never having been in an interaction with the police, can't empathize with victims of police manslaughter and agree that it's perfectly OK for them to gun people down because they're afraid and never should have been hired as a law enforcement officer to begin with.

      You have to accept many of your fellow Americans are exactly what they were inartfully referred to as in the last presidential election cycle. They are deplorable excuses for human beings who are in fact, perfectly OK with things the way they are, but would be happier still if things got a lot worse, so long as none of it affects them personally.

    14. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The emergency call didn't come via the 911 system, instead it was to the non-emergency line at the local police station. The person who took the call thought it was a hoax, but forwarded it to dispatch anyways.

      The police never went up to the house, they called for the occupants of the house to come outside via a bullhorn. The officers were in no danger, they were across the street in full tactical gear behind ballistic shields.

    15. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if the hostage taker had sent one of the hostages out to answer the door? What if the guy at the door was a hostage being freed? Why the FUCK did a cop blast him?

    16. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Officer Justin Rapp - killed Andrew Finch for pulling up his pants (as stated by the officer who was standing next to Finch when he was shot).

    17. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Officer Justin Rapp saw him pull up his pants. That's seriously it - the cop who was standing right next to Andrew Finch saw him pull up his pants and testified that he thought that pulling on his waistband wasn't ideal and then BANG.

    18. Re:Ars Technica link... by sheramil · · Score: 3, Funny

      This guy does deserve the sentence he got. If his jail sentence means others will learn not to do horrendous acts that endanger peoples lives then GOOD!

      They'd better keep a close eye on him when he's making his weekly phone call.

    19. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cops have less than half the odds of dying by gun that children do, particularly the unarmed children they shoot to death. You can fuck off with your badge-whore apologetics.

    20. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this "ends justify the means" thinking?

    21. Re:Ars Technica link... by fafalone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you unaware of the details? The police, in large numbers, had the front of the house surrounded, from a tactical position behind their vehicles. An unarmed individual came out, was not identified, was not given a chance to comply with orders, and fired upon within seconds simply because an officer thought his hands passed too close to his waist. Could have just as easily been a hostage, especially since having hostages answer the door is the typical scenario.
      This was an egregiously terrible shoot. There is zero excuse here, and if you're defending executing someone in these circumstances, you're a disgusting person condoning having absolutely no reasonable restriction on allowing police to execute anyone they encounter. They didn't know if it was a hostage, they didn't know if he was armed, they didn't give him a chance to surrender, he didn't do anything at all-- his hands just passed near his waist he didn't reach for something, and they did it all from a distance behind cover.

      Barriss absolutely deserves the 20 years, but the officer who opened fire deserves life. And fuck whoever would defend one of the worst shoots ever, you're not defending a tough call, you're defending a wholly unjustified murder.

    22. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Police knock on the wrong doors and addresses all the time too, they have to accept there's a chance the call is fake or they are at the wrong house.

    23. Re:Ars Technica link... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Or....and this is just a thought, how about putting the blame where it really lies which is SWAT teams that act more like hit squads than cops?

      We have reached a point in technology where there really is no excuse for killing a suspect that isn't actively shooting at people simply because of the ton of non lethal options every police dept has. They have tear gas, flashbangs, rubber bullets, bean bag rounds, tasers, all of which will put someone on the ground WITHOUT filling them full of holes, yet despite the SWAT units having all these options AND more body armor than a soldier in Iraq AND often hiding behind shields or cars when engaging...their default state is to ventilate. And do not forget this was supposedly a HOSTAGE situation...where was the hostage negotiator? Oh that is right SWAT teams today shoot first and fuck anything sensible like trying to talk a situation down peacefully.

      So while the douchebag deserved the jail time the innocent person's death needs to be blamed on those that pulled the trigger without even attempting anything less than lethal force...the cops.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    24. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      neither enjoy nor envy the job of law enforcement...

      I guess it depends on where you're an LEO and what kind of work you do. I live in a small to mid-sized town with very little crime. Cops live in my neighborhood so they're probably doing about as well as I am which is reasonably comfortable.. I like having cops as neighbors. They drive their cop cars home and having one parked right across the street from my house probably serves as a deterrent to would-be burglars. It's been over a century since a cop here has died in the line of duty. We have about 1 or 2 murders a year. I think one time we had 3. Our cops are mostly dealing with minor crimes and traffic offenses. Occasionally the local college kids get out of hand, but given how they handled the last "riot/party" they're not putting in much effort.

      (Upon proof-reading this, I realized "they" might be ambiguous. I meant the cops weren't putting in much effort, but now that I think about it the college kids weren't putting in much of an effort either. It was all pretty tame - definitely not national news.)

      I'm sure there are tense moments when they pull over an erratic driver or have to enter a business with the burglar alarm going off, but that's why we pay them so well. And hopefully we train them so they don't pull the trigger when someone is not posing a threat.

      I am merely grateful the task of dealing with the inevitable unpleasantness that is humankind does not fall to me and a few neighbors.

      That's a good point. I've seen what happens when neighbors attempt to resolve disputes....or in many cases just try to enact some sort of revenge upon them. It never ends well.

    25. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same AC here. My last encounter with the cops was a noise complaint against me. It was a fair complaint, but the level of safety the cop felt might astound those who say that cops are so trigger-happy because they're always in life and death situations.

      It was very late at night and I was totally drunk and stoned. I turned down the music and answer the door. Cop asks for my ID. I go get it, but how did he know I wasn't going to get a gun? He didn't, but why would someone where he responds to calls pull a gun on him over a noise complaint?

      It's about as likely as me walking into m bank and finding an armed robbery in progress. It's just not something I think about when I go to the bank. I'm not even worried about being robbed at an ATM here.

      - ACTPM

    26. Re:Ars Technica link... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      If I recall correctly the situation was even more absurd.

      The police on the scene had everything under control. A further police car arrived, an officer left it and shot the guy instantly from a quite big distance (something like 30yards).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    27. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You would rather other people act to protect you and die than you do it yourself

      Yes. That's why we pay them to protect us, train them how to do it, let them wear body armor, carry around weapons in places we don't allow the general populace to. I expect that a trained police officer, sworn to protect people and uphold the law, to put themselves in harms way to protect anyone. Not just "people they think are innocent" or even "people who are innocent". If they aren't willing to put themselves in jeopardy for others who may not deserve it, they should find a new job.

    28. Re:Ars Technica link... by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the most uncivilized elements of humankind must be dealt with

      100% correct. Trigger happy police officers who shoot unarmed people must be dealt with.

      I am merely grateful

      Why are you grateful that the very people who protect you are so fucking trigger happy that they are likely to shoot you when you call for help, even if you're tiny white woman in her bathrobe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Interactions with police are an example of a clash of an unpleasant element of society, but in the USA it is for all the wrong reasons.

    29. Re: Ars Technica link... by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      You would rather other people act to protect you and die

      Not the OP, but as a veteran who was willing to die to protect other people, fuck yes thatâ(TM)s what I want and expect from LE. Donâ(TM)t like it, get another job.

    30. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People in EVERY occupation have to make split second decisions all the time, some occupations are more or less likely to injure others with their decisions. Law enforcement is the ONLY group who gets a free pass when their careless/negligence/illegal activity results in harm to others.

      Its rather amazing, considering that these people are given a fairly impressive amount of power to wield, they should be held to a much HIGHER (not lower) standard than the rest of the plebes.

    31. Re:Ars Technica link... by sheetsda · · Score: 2

      If you can do better, have you signed up for police work yet?

      The current tense climate will only improve when people who can do better do, or come to understand why they and others can't.

    32. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is my understanding that LEO interview tests select against certain traits. They are hiring the people that sit quietly in the boat, not those who rock it.

    33. Re: Ars Technica link... by fortfive · · Score: 1

      Yes. Before video games, noone ever commited stupid and/or violent crime.

    34. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It certainly doesn't inspire confidence in either the legal system OR the police.

    35. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Police knock on the wrong doors and addresses all the time too, they have to accept there's a chance the call is fake or they are at the wrong house.

      Police are police, not executioners. When they are setting up an operation, they have to take the utmost care that nobody _including_ the suspect is getting hurt or even killed. They are supposed to bring suspects _to_ justice, not to bring criminals justice. Minimizing damage can be hard in some situations, like a hostage situation with an armed killer. That does not mean that police is exempt from even trying. Shooting anyone they see on sight is not minimizing damage, it's taking over the job of the killer.

    36. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This guy does deserve the sentence he got.

      Not at all, but I've found over the years that the US justice system is so rotten and corrupt that it has become almost impossible to explain to Americans what justice is and its basic concepts. They seem to lack a moral compass - as evidenced by the vast number of Americans who are pro prison rape, pro drone strikes, pro double moral standards, pro torture, pro plea bargains, pro ridiculously high sentences that exist nowhere else in the world, and so on (the actual list is very long).

    37. Re:Ars Technica link... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Understanding better doesn't stop them shooting people in their own homes.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    38. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They won't let us join, they actually psychologically screen out those who want to challenge their system.

    39. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

    40. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are wrong.

      The police see the worst of mankind every day. Even the best hires, even those you pick yourself, cannot be prepared to experience the most rotten parts of our society day after day. Stories the news papers and television media think are too graphic to report on are seen first hand by these people.

      And you have the audacity to think they shoot at the slightest fear for no reason.

      How about this scenario. They pulled up to a house where a horrific murder just took place and two hostages are tied up in a closet. A deranged man comes out pulling on his pants to get a gun and start sending cops to their graves.

      That is not a slight fear. As far as the cops know, the guy on the porch already murdered someone; two witnesses from inside said so.

      The cops showed up as they have been trained to take down the murderer if necessary to save those hostages.

      Swatting is the crime. Swatting puts the police in a heightened state of fear for their own life and the lives of potential hostages. When in real danger, this heightened state is part of our evolutionary instinctive code; it is intended to save our life.

      I doubt whether you could do better if you were standing in his shoes. But I am sure you think you would have - and that makes you a good person. LOL.

    41. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because anyone from anywhere on the planet can call police and lie through their teeth. Then maybe the police should do some due diligence to determine what the threat actually is. It's an open public system, the default should be to not trust it.

    42. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but not sorry, and not wrong. I'm sorry you haven't got what it takes to be a cop (my grandfather was one), and I'm even more sorry you're making excuses for the inexcusable. You're what's wrong with this country.

    43. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 1, Troll

      very people who protect you are so fucking trigger happy that they are likely to shoot you when you call for help

      The fact that you're ignorant enough to refer to a one-in-many-million occurrence as "likely" - and that multiple jackasses found your statement "insightful" - is a sad commentary on the Slashdot crowd. Apparently today's geeks don't actually understand this whole math thing.

    44. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      You don't recall it correctly. The officer was positioned at a distance, providing overwatch, well before the suspect exited the building.

    45. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or....and this is just a thought, how about putting the blame where it really lies which is SWAT teams that act more like hit squads than cops?

      We have reached a point in technology where there really is no excuse for killing a suspect that isn't actively shooting at people

      The swatter was on the phone and telling the police that the suspect was actively executing people. The officer thought this was his chance to keep him from going back inside and continuing. Why he would think that, of course, is a different question. He most certainly royally fucked up in what he considered a split-second decision upon which more lives depended. He should not be trusted with a gun, it would appear. But criminal liability is something else.

    46. Re:Ars Technica link... by Koby77 · · Score: 1

      That is the problem with swatting: cops show up with adrenaline, and the innocent risk getting shot when they are actually no threat at all. In Kansas, there is a law which essentially transfers the blame from the police that they commit over to the instigator of the event, in this case Tyler Barriss. So that's why the officer got off with no punishment. The law says that the perpetrator is to blame for the events that happened.

    47. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or they went to the address, it happens almost everyday somewhere in the US.

    48. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or give enough guns to the rest of them to create a balance of power.

    49. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong.

      The cops showed up as they have been trained to take down the murderer if necessary to save those hostages.

      You are wrong. The officer violated police procedure. It's not an accident that only 1 of the many police officers are the scene fired a shot. The guy screwed up.

      Police officers are extensively trained in the concept of "backing". This refers to thinking about what it behind your target. A normal part of this training is to have one of the officers (or the trainer) shot their gun at mock up of a standard house wall, and a door. The intent of this exercise is to show the officer that normal handgun bullets will go right through both of these targets (unless they happen to hit the wood studs in the wall, and not the much larger spaces between).

      The situation is further complicated two additional facts which are communicated in this training:
      1. Bullets will typically go through the human body and come out the far side, potentially with considerable velocity.
      2. Bullets can change their flight path by very large angles (ricochet) as a result of things they hit - including the human body.
      There are many documented instances of both of these things happening.

      One of the biggest nightmares for a police department is the situation where an officer shoots at a target - and whether he hits or misses - the bullet continues downrange, goes through a wall or window or door (or even multiple walls, perhaps into a neighboring house), and kills a child or a pregnant woman. Killing an adult male is not nearly as bad. So officers receive extensive and regular training in being aware of the backing behind their targets: they are not supposed to shoot unless they have good backing.

      The officer who fired in this incident did not have good backing. If there had been a child or pregnant woman in that house or in adjacent house, that person could easily have been killed. The officer should not have taken the shot - he violated police procedure - and every other officer on the scene did the correct thing by not shooting.

      However, the other officers then proceeded to add insult to injury by hand-cuffing the family and taking them to the police station as prisoners. This is a blatant violation of fundamental rights (not to mention common sense) "under the colour of law", which is a federal criminal offense. In short, this is yet another incident of multiple criminal actions by government officials, something that seems to happen with dreary regularity in the USA today (and very serious structural legal ethics problems in the legal system make a bad situation worse).

    50. Re:Ars Technica link... by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      And third thing - because of crazy gun laws the cops consider everyone to be packing all the time (and I'm not sure I blame them). That cell phone - thought it was a gun, those pants, thought there was a gun hidden in there. Cops don't get to use that defense where guns are rare.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    51. Re: Ars Technica link... by zugmeister · · Score: 2

      The fact that you're ignorant enough to refer to a one-in-many-million occurrence as "likely"...

      Given that we hear about several deaths caused by SWAT invasions each year, either your anally-produced numbers are wildly incorrect or there are millions and millions of SWAT raids per year.
      The fact is an innocent person was killed. By the very people who were supposed to be protecting said person. How many accidental and completely preventable murders / killings / accidental executions * of innocent people would be an acceptable number, in your opinion?

      *It's hard to neutrally term the act of intentionally discharging a firearm into someone causing them to die, isn't it?

    52. Re: Ars Technica link... by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Funny

      The police see the worst of mankind every day.

      And that's only roll call!

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    53. Re: Ars Technica link... by zugmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All other arguments aside, I'd like to present two facts and one outcome:
      Cedric has probably never killed anyone.
      Officer Justin Rapp has.
      Because of Rapp's actions, an innocent person Rapp was supposed to be protecting is now dead.
      Is it presumptuous of me to hold the opinion police shooting innocent people is a bad thing?

    54. Re:Ars Technica link... by zugmeister · · Score: 1

      The say-so of one anonymous caller may well warrant further investigation. Maybe even the deployment of a SWAT team in case it turns out to be true.
      OTOH doesn't it make sense to figure out what's actually going on before you start shooting people?
      Yeah stress / split second decisions and all that, but this is not the first (or 50th) time police have killed the people they were supposed to be protecting.

    55. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then we need to start retiring them after 10 years for public safety reasons. There are more than enough people to sign up.

    56. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well if you know that then you know how to answer the questions...

    57. Re:Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering if you meant to type what you typed there. You can always create a hypothetical where the police didn't know not something.

      Let's hope that if they ever ring your doorbell they know that you are not holding an atom bomb detonator disguised as a TV remote. Because by your own "logic" if they aren't sure they should shoot you just in case.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    58. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 2

      Given that we hear about several deaths caused by SWAT invasions each year, either your anally-produced numbers are wildly incorrect or there are millions and millions of SWAT raids per year.

      This wasn't SWAT; it was regular cops. Obviously you just hear what you want to hear.

      The fact is an innocent person was killed. By the very people who were supposed to be protecting said person.

      Yes, it's tragic. About as tragic as when a patient dies on the operating table, or overdoses on perception medication. Shall we start locking up doctors who make an incorrect decision?

      How many accidental and completely preventable murders / killings / accidental executions * of innocent people would be an acceptable number, in your opinion?

      I'm perfectly fine with the current numbers. How many would be acceptable in your opinion?

      *It's hard to neutrally term the act of intentionally discharging a firearm into someone causing them to die, isn't it?

      Only if you're incompetent; the neutral term is "killing".

    59. Re:Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      They have tear gas, flashbangs, rubber bullets, bean bag rounds, tasers, all of which will put someone on the ground WITHOUT filling them full of holes, yet despite the SWAT units having all these options AND more body armor than a soldier in Iraq AND often hiding behind shields or cars when engaging...their default state is to ventilate.

      That's totally unfair.

      You left out "while outnumbering the suspect by 20 to 1".

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    60. Re: Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      They should have called in an airstrike just to be sure.

      Is there a bomber variant of the 737-MAX?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    61. Re:Ars Technica link... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering if you meant to type what you typed there. You can always create a hypothetical where the police didn't know not something.

      Let's hope that if they ever ring your doorbell they know that you are not holding an atom bomb detonator disguised as a TV remote. Because by your own "logic" if they aren't sure they should shoot you just in case.

      Sometimes I have Posting Tourette's, where I can't help but represent an alternative, underrepresented, opinion.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    62. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it's tragic. About as tragic as when a patient dies on the operating table, or overdoses on perception medication. Shall we start locking up doctors who make an incorrect decision?

      Are you are seriously comparing those as equal? So you could be on your porch doing whatever, and the cops roll up on you and shoot you and that is the same as scheduling an operation to fix a known issue, or your mis-reading medication? You seriously don't see the control angle of what is happening? I'm not saying the cops should ALWAYS be held accountable, but damn man, this shit is clear cut WTF.

    63. Re:Ars Technica link... by sheetsda · · Score: 1

      I think there's been some misunderstanding. "They" in my statement is the person who finds in practice they actually cannot do better than the existing law enforcement system.

    64. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because at that point with guns drawn they are operating under the assumption that they are dealing with a law abiding citizen.

    65. Re:Ars Technica link... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Thanks I forgot about that. So you had 20 to 1 PLUS beanbags, flashbangs, tear gas, tasers, rubber bullets AND the cops had body armor AND had shields or were behind cars....against a single guy in a pair of shorts.

      I just don't see how anyone sane can make excuses for these SWAT units anymore, what they are doing is nothing but straight up executions. With that many non lethal choices there is NO REASON why they can't put a single guy in shorts standing on a porch down without risking their lives of taking his, none. And again if this is supposed to be a hostage situation, where is the hostage negotiator? Oh that is right, you only have one of those when you want to end the situation peacefully instead of use civilians for target practice, my bad.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    66. Re:Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I do that sometimes, but I usually include a bit of a hint that I'm being sarcastic.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    67. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      You seriously don't see the control angle of what is happening?

      I was considering responding to the rest of your comment, but this Alex Jones nuttery spoiled the whole thing. It takes a special kind of turd to see the botched handling of a hostage situation as an example of "control".

    68. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't recall it correctly. The officer was positioned at a distance, providing overwatch, well before the suspect exited the building.

      Suspect? More like victim.

    69. Re:Ars Technica link... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I doubt I'll ever get the opportunity to test that. It's not my specialty.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    70. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there a bomber variant of the 737-MAX?

      No, but child-killing drones from Afghanistan can be redeployed at short notice. That work?

    71. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [the cop] murdered the unarmed victim in cold blood

      In cold blood?

      So the cop had no regret and was just like "eh, just another day's work"?

      Source please.

    72. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you grateful that the very people who protect you are so fucking trigger happy that they are likely to shoot you when you call for help

      Guess I'm extremely lucky to have avoided being shot then, because as a teenager I had at least 4 interactions with cops with their guns drawn.

      I was a bit reckless with airsoft guns ("wars" in local "forests", driving around with friends shooting stuff), and people would call the cops on me and my friends (they were justified IMO).

      Pro tips: when a gun is drawn on you and you have no intention of fighting/retaliating: be calm; be predictable; be polite; comply with orders; keep your hands up and dont move them; no sudden movements - ultimately, dont appear to be a threat of any kind. not guaranteed, but it usually works out.

      [cops'll shoot you] even if you're tiny white woman in her bathrobe?

      and that's certainly the norm, right? give me a break.

  4. Why the minimum I wonder by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Considering he actually got someone killed, and his sentence helps send a message to other potential swatters... the minimum amount of fla, err, sentence doesn't seem quite enough.

    On the other side of this coin how is it possible after years of swatting action, that it's still really possible to swat anyone? It seems at this point like just a single source call should not be quite enough to trigger such an extreme response, or more recon should be done, or something.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah, and the trigger-happy cop who killed the innocent man does not serve jail time.

    2. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by myth24601 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Police want to have an excuse to use all that cool SWAT gear.

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    3. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I understand he did something stupid and reported this, but all this is doing is ruining more lives. The expected outcome of a SWATTING should not be DEATH. This is a much more disturbing indicator - read that ARS technica story. The first few sentences describe what happened. Does it really sound reasonable for the police to shoot someone who opens the door unsuspectingly to talk to them? This should make you nervous EVERY time you see or speak to a police officer. Just a pause to make sure he actually saw a gun before pulling the trigger would have saved a young adult's life and likely not put him in more danger. Remember - this is a SWAT TEAM armed to the teeth, battle gear on, knocking on the door and shooting the first person that shows up. What if they had accidentally gone to the house next door?

      All this being said - I agree this kid took an action that had grave consequences, but so did that SWAT member. At the very least - the police officer who pulled the trigger should suffer the same sentence as the guy who made a prank phone call.

    4. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He took a plea deal, 20 to 25 years for federal crimes . The most severe state (Kansas) charge was involuntary manslaughter. Had Barris been convicted of that, he would be serving less time than he would on the federal ones.

    5. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by yorgasor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When all you have is a SWAT team, everything looks like a huge drug-lord compound.

      --
      Looking for a computer support specialist for your small business? Check out
    6. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the very least - the police officer who pulled the trigger should suffer the same sentence as the guy who made a prank phone call.

      I disagree. The motivation of the police officer and Tyler Barriss were completely different. The officer was trying to save lives. Barriss was telling a dangerous lie ("swatting"), in order to harass Gaskill.

    7. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on the nature of the lie though, shouldn't the officer have reasonably believed that if he shot the "perp", a bomb would go off and kill innocent hostages? Either the police officer didn't have enough information about the supposed situation, in which case the officer was negligent, or he did have that information and didn't care, or he did have the information, and dismissed it as a hoax, in which case he shouldn't have assumed there was danger. There really isn't any path through this where it seems it was in any way reasonable. It's absolutely stunning in these cases that nothing happens to the officers. It's like the case of that social worker who was shot by police in a standoff over his autistic patient who was sitting in the road with a toy truck. The SWAT team had identified that they were unarmed and that the man just had a toy truck and the social worker was lying on his back with his hands up. One of the SWAT officers fired three times and shot the social worker and then cuffed him for twenty minutes while he lay there bleeding. That officer is still employed today!?!?!?! I mean, seriously, it's one thing that these things happen, but it's really the aftermath that's more telling. The police - the same police who send kids to hard time in prison for simple drug possession charges - somehow think that it's just fine when this sort of thing happens and basically nothing happens to the officers who shoot people for no reason, or lock them in a jail cell for days without water, etc.

    8. Re: Why the minimum I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh good to know I can get a pass on any killings just by saying that I *thought* something bad was happening.

      Hear that boys? Reality doesn't matter anymore! It's all about what you think, no matter how wrong you might be at the time. Forget any investigation, due-diligence, or common sense. Those are old ideas and they don't apply to our brave new world. Consequences of actions be damned!

      As a bonus, we'll get boot-licking, idiotic sycophants like the parent poster to back us up!

    9. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "On the other side of this coin how is it possible after years of swatting action, that it's still really possible to swat anyone?"

      Maybe because when something like this happens, it is the stupid kid the one that gets 20 years in prison instead of the cop that out of any real need pulled the trigger.

  5. And the one who pulled the trigger... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Serves zero time.

  6. Sentence fair, additional training appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The sentence is fair, for the SWAT call was the trigger for the events that eventually lead to the homeowners death. It also shows how additional training for police response would be a good thing to try to handle the losers trying to abuse the system to cause harm to others.

    1. Re: Sentence fair, additional training appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Swatting is a sport in the US. They train you from a very young age and it's going on all over the place. Collateral damage is not a concern in the United States

    2. Re:Sentence fair, additional training appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "additional training" also known as "nothing will be done"

      If training is the issue then we prosecute either the trainer or the policy makers for negligence.

  7. Suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I were family of the guy who got killed, I'd send this asshole a case of Dove pink beauty bars, unwrapped.

    1. Re:Suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, he's a scrawny, young thing. He's definitely going to be getting his regular hot beef injections with side helpings of AIDS.

  8. OK, how about the actual shooter? by bmimatt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long did the guy who actually pulled the trigger and sent the deadly bullet get?

    1. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      DA did not press charges.

    2. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by FeelGood314 · · Score: 0

      How about the idiots who hired and put a gun in the hand of the actual shooter. Police officers have real power, they have to pass physiological exams, they have to be approved to carry a weapon. This is how you arrest someone https://www.youtube.com/watch?... - arrest of Toronto Van attack killer

    3. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Iwastheone · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      Imagine that you are one of the police officers responding to this unknown to you this swat call. All you know is from the police dispatch that there may be a dangerous gun holding suspect at this (wrong address) home. Your adrenaline is pumped up. Innocent person opens the door to his home to see why police are outside. As the cop, all you know is that the guy may be armed and dangerous. How would you react? Yeah, innocent life taken, all due to some video game kid who thinks he's got some type of invincible power to manipulate the police 011 system. Bad info caused by this swatter made the situation happen. Do not blame an officer who reacted when the innocent homeowner opened his door, blame the person who created this entire situation because his online game playing believed he had the power to control his vengeance by using society's protectors.

      The last console game I played was GTA3. Very realistic game that glorifies violence, lot of fun crap to do, however I was well into my adulthood then. If I had a son who wanted to play that game then I'd have not allowed him to, unless he had enough maturity to understand that it is just a fantasy video game, not to be taken as reality. If this swatter had any type of parenting, they failed in their job of raising their child.

    4. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Go watch the youtube videos.

      It is nothing like what you describe.

      The cops show up. Position themselves across the street in body armor, behind multiple cars, with a dozen guns pointed at the house.

      Then an unarmed guy comes out, hands clearly empty, clearly confused, with a bright searchlight pointed at his face.

      Then a cop murders him in cold blood.

      Even if the call was real, there was absolutely no excuse to just kill the first guy they see. They had no idea if he was the "bad guy" or one of the "hostages".

    5. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, I will imagine it. "I have been called to a home that may have a potential hostage situation. So going in I imagine that there is perhaps one person with a gun and one or more innocent people being held hostage. Someone stands in front of the door, SHOOT THEM!!!! Could never be the hostage. Or a random person. Must be the bad guy."

      The officer fucked up, seriously. Did he think someone holding hostages was just going to randomly open the door and walk out, blind as a bat?

    6. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, innocent life taken, all due to some video game kid who thinks he's got some type of invincible power to manipulate the police 011 system.

      Perhaps that's because instead of being reasonable, too many police stations will send out whole SWAT teams covered in body armor, positioned far away behind their cars, and with a row of guns positioned to "take down"--ie kill--the first person who dares take a step outside the door of said "[wrong] address". Hell, there's been plenty of reports of legitimate calls placed with all the above with wrong addresses and someone rightly confused being murdered all in the name of protecting SWAT team. It's little wonder when criminal charges are possibly presented, SWAT team is just as good gunning them down as they are gunning down innocent victims. But, yes, please let's continue your narrative that leaves SWAT team, especially the member who shot an unarmed, innocent man, blameless.

      The last console game I played was GTA3. Very realistic game that glorifies violence,

      Ah, yes, good old GTA3. Very realistic. Omniscient cops that are notified of your guilt without being witness to your crimes, where all you have to do is wait a while and everyone forgets you just committed hit and run, and where you can tank several gun shots to the head. Oh, but I guess you're right about one thing. The police in GTA3 too seem to think it's fine to run around shooting potentially innocent people just because they think you're guilty.

    7. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in Wichita. I know the cops involved personally. They were out of pistol range, behind cover, wearing bulletproof vests. Even if the guy had a pistol, he could have emptied it and hit nothing because HE WAS TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE COPS! They shot him wth a rifle. Think maybe the victim had a rifle shoved down his pants that he was about to pull out?

      Two weeks later, a cop shot a 9 year old girl in the face while trying to kill the family dog. This is not an isolated incident, and apologists like you don't help solve the problem. You just cover it up and blame the victim. Cops have training that helps them deal with these situations. They even have hostage negotiators that try to resolve these things before killing innocent people who try to close their front door in the middle of January. You would have done the same damn thing if it was you. Going outside in the cold? Close the door behind you. Don't blame the victim for his own execution.

    8. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Iwastheone · · Score: 0

      You're the officer called to the scene of a possible armed man. You only have the info given over the radio. As far as the officer knows, the guy in the house is armed. You only have a few seconds to decide how to react. You want only to survive this call and ensure your fellow officers also survive. After two seconds you or your fellow officers may be dead if you do not react. The swatter caused this entire situation, not the police who responded.

    9. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Iwastheone · · Score: 4, Informative

      GTA is a fucking made up fantasy video game that immature young adults can be/are influenced by. That's the truth whether you like it or not. Most kids know it's just a b.s. game, this swatter guy did not. An innocent man died because of this.

    10. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to knock a person unconscious, then hide them behind your car tires.

      Then we'll take you to trial and cut-paste your own words to hang you with.

    11. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The cop thought he was going for a gun because he was trained to see any hand motion as going for a gun, and was expecting the victim to go for a gun.

      If you go camping in the woods and are afraid of bears, every shadow looks like a bear and every noise sounds like a bear.

    12. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by fafalone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're that fucking panicked from across the street behind your car door that you can't even wait to open fire until the dude at least reaches for something, you have absolutely zero business signing up for a job where you're fucking supposed to be putting your life on the line to protect innocent people, and should absolutely be held accountable for your completely over the top reaction. Police responding to a hostage situation don't get to just open fire on anyone they see for no reason, the hell is the point of even calling them if they're just going to shoot the hostages themselves? Sending a hostage to open the door is what is normally done.
      Even if the info they had was 100% correct this would have still been a straight up murder. Shooting from across the street behind cover the second someone walks out, without him doing absolutely anything to indicate he might be reaching for a weapon even, is completely unacceptable.

    13. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit.

      There was no way the cop could know if it was a hostage at the door or the 'alleged criminal.'
      The likelihood of it being a hostage outweighs any perceived danger a SINGLE person answering the door to a dozen fully armored SWAT officers behind vehicles, ballistic shields and blinding spotlights faced.

      The cops were not in any real danger even if he had walked out with an AR-15 in each hand. We're not talking about a street cop walking up to the door but the civilian equivalent of a military task force that called him out with a bullhorn from across the street.

      This would of been a bad kill in a wartime situation, much less a civilian one.
      He failed rule number one:
      a) Positive identification (PID) is required prior to engagement. PID is a reasonable certainty that the proposed target is a legitimate military target. If no PID, contact your next higher commander for decision.

      Military ROE card:
      https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/11.htm

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    14. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Just+A+Gigolo · · Score: 2

      Ok, so not only a homicidal killer but a lousy shot too!

    15. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      And the office didn't open fire immediately after the man came out, but only after the man came out with his hands up, then turned, lowed his arms and with one hand made a motion to his waist. The cop thought that he was going for a gun that was shooter reported in the police call possessed.

      The cop thought he was going for a gun because he was trained to see any hand motion as going for a gun, and was expecting the victim to go for a gun. If you go camping in the woods and are afraid of bears, every shadow looks like a bear and every noise sounds like a bear.

      Except you're not going to any random place "in the woods", you're going to where a rabid bear allegedly just mauled a bunch of victims. That will strongly screw your perception that everything is the bear until proven otherwise. I mean the guy who calls into 911 with that story is a nutter, he could very well be coming out onto that porch to die in suicide-by-cop because that's why he called them over. Doesn't matter that he's surrounded by a ton of cops in full tactical gear, out in the open, blinded by a floodlight it still seemed plausible he'd grab a gun from his waistband and open fire.

      In retrospect we know all of this is wrong, he was probably just losing his pants and had a natural reaction to reach for them before he realized how poorly that could be interpreted. Heck, in any other case of mistaken identity where the police wasn't riled up to expect a psycho killer on a rampage he'd probably still be alive, because when you look at it without the context he was shot and killed for one tiny little deviation from total compliance. Somebody very maliciously planted that idea in the cop's head though.

      I mean Barriss admitted to making lots of swatting calls. In all of them except this one the cops were able to defuse the situation. In this situation, all but one cop kept their calm. If you keep buying enough lottery tickets sooner or later you'll find the perfect storm where one cop on a bad day in one situation under unfortunate circumstances makes one bad call and opens fire. And yes the reaction was premature and excessive, but we only ever hear about it when it goes horribly wrong. It's tough to be right 100% of the time.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    16. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Imagine that you are one of the police officers responding to this unknown

      In many civilised countries the police officer wouldn't even be armed, sure as fuck not for some anonymous call.

    17. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The police only shoot terrorists and child molestors. Since the state did not persecute this brave enforceree of state laws, we must assume the enforcer was just eliminating a terrorist who was molesting children.

      The logic can be used in the smollet case. Since the state did not persectute smollette, so it is natural to assume he dida notin wrong. Therefore there really were members of da kluky clue clan patrolli Chicago 2 am harazin innocent black africanized amerikans. The fact that the poliz did not find these white evil doers and instead attacked smollet just proves how racists cops are

      Today we enlightened folks no longer worship sky dieties. Today we worship the state. Da state can doa nutin wrong. We needa da stata to protekt us civilans from the evil corporations and take all our gunz so we do not shoot ourselves.

      Hooray 4 da state

    18. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You only have a few seconds to decide how to react. You want only to survive this call and ensure your fellow officers also survive

      Then the solution is easy. Don't show up! If that's really the only goal of the police officers, then they can stay back at the station. Maybe hide under a desk. Honestly if that's all they want then, as soon as they get the call about the situation, they should all hop in their cars, turn on the sirens, and drive out of town until the whole thing blows over.

    19. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got a source for that, you fucking moron?

    20. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Wait. So not only did the incompetent cop fail to ascertain if the man was a hostage or the shooter and was a threat, he missed. His bullet could have gone anywhere. He needs to be fired at the very least.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    21. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      was he trying to shoot the storm door - I don't think so.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    22. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The true cause is zero accountability policing.

    23. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GTA is a fucking made up fantasy video game that immature young adults can be/are influenced by.

      You know what immature young adults can be/are influenced by? The fact that they are able to successfully and trivially call up a police station, make up a bogus story, and the result is a SWAT team sent to someone's house. Worse, they're influenced by the fact that in many cases that this happens the person has engaged in this or similary activity literally over a hundred of times (Tyler at least bragged about 100 bomb threats to schools and 10 home SWATs) without being caught and prosecuted.

      If SWATting is so dangerous, maybe they shouldn't have waited until a cop finally killed someone to find the person responsible. I guess we could presume that this was the final straw that allowed him to be caught, but I don't then to believe that. If this is the case, then it would have to be the ease of forging caller id; funny how Ajit Pai didn't in Congress pull out his phone as a prank and then have himself SWATted. You know, it'd be great for laughs much more than joking about too many robocalls.

      That's the truth whether you like it or not. Most kids know it's just a b.s. game, this swatter guy did not. An innocent man died because of this.

      Btw, a quick check and it's trivial to verify the SWATter was playing a Call of Duty match. So, I guess we can blame the military by your logic? Or maybe a militarized police force that thinks the solution to a hostage situation is to shoot first and [possibly] ask questions later? You want to argue there's "influence" in what the swatter guy did, there's no doubt he felt empowered. Clearly gaming alone wasn't enough though which is why he turned to another group, police, who were also had the "influence" known as "no consequences". It's funny how "no consequences" tends to empower horribly shitty behavior that leads to the injury or death of innocent people. It seems plainly obvious if you think that "influence" is to blame, maybe we should combat that on all levels that made this happen.

    24. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Stud+McPeckChest · · Score: 1

      If you go camping in the woods and are afraid of bears, every shadow looks like a bear and every noise sounds like a bear.

      I frequently go camping in the woods, I am terrified of snakes and I agree with your general statement. I will frequently carry a machete for the purpose of separating snakes from their lives. The thing is, I don't go wildly swinging every time I see a branch, twig or something in my peripheral vision move. I stop, quickly but safely move away from the thing that could be a snake and try and figure out what it is. If it is a snake, I then take a split second to assess how much of a threat it is to me and respond accordingly. More often than not, I simply avoid it. That's even knowing those bastards are a lot faster than I am, especially when I am tired.

      On one particularly horrific trip, I was on a very narrow ridge line and ran into a rattlesnake (and I didn't have my machete). I spent nearly an hour trying to come up with a plan before deciding that chances were pretty good it didn't want to tangle with me. I had to pass well within striking distance but I moved slowly, carefully and deliberately past it. While not deadly, it was a mix of my worst nightmare and a decent dose of venom in the backwoods. I prepared for the worst but hoped for the best. It didn't want to mess with me and we both went out separate ways, happy that the other was gone.

      I am not a professional woodsman, ranger or herpetologist. I do not have any training or experience in dealing with snakes outside of "kill them good" and suck at identifying them. Even with that, I know that if I get jumpy or panic then things are going to get really bad really quick and a good outcome becomes more pure fortune than anything else. I would be shocked to find that police are not trained to stay calm and keep the situation under control.

    25. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Not even close.
      Talk to a Real Police officer who DOES NOT work in a large city.

      They may have guns drawn in some cases, but most of them won't shoot until another gun clearly appears.

      My son is in a Sheriffs Deputy. They are trained (like the big city folks) to not shoot unless there is a gun visible in front of them.
      Shooting a is a big deal because they can accidentally cause cross-fire which hits another cop or civilian. They behave as the opposite of trigger-happy.

      They roll up on people with knives and even garden tools who are being menacing and they stay way back, put on the spot lights, and try to talk the person down before going anywhere near them.

      What makes no sense is that the cops in the nearest big city get the same training, but they are kicking down the wrong door and killing naked homeless people and vacationers all the time. Really.

  9. Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Ashthon · · Score: 0

    I don't see why Shane Gaskill should be held responsible for somebody else's reckless actions. If I were to post a random address here along with "Try something" should I by changed if somebody goes to that address and kills the resident? I personally don't think so.

    Classifying him as a co-conspirator also seems odd. If I'm in a hostage situation and the hostage taker asks for my address, and I give him a fake address, should I be classified as a co-conspirator if the hostage taker than goes and kills somebody at that address? Again, I don't think so.

    I find it worrying that you can be charged for a serious crime just for giving out a fake address. Anyone could potentially end up in that situation, particularly young people. Surely there has to be an element of intent involved? With no intent on Gaskill's part, I don't think he should be in anyway responsible. Charging the intended victim seems very wrong, even if he did give out a fake address.

    1. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Agreed, 20 years is way too much for this and the police should always verify before shooting. It is ultimately their fault an innocent person was murdered. This is just a displacement of responsibility by trigger happy police. It is not acceptable no matter what they told. They are more responsible than the malicious idiot who called them.

    2. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by yodleboy · · Score: 2

      Are you serious? If you yell 'fire' in a movie theater and some guy gets trampled by a careless firefighter, it's your damn fault.

    3. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No my friend, it's the theaters fault for not making space to get to the exits.

    4. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Likely because all three of them knew exactly what was about to transpire.
      Did they intend for the target to be killed ? Unknown, but they certainly knew the possibility.

      Their actions, and your questioning why is the sentence so harsh, is what's f****ng wrong with folks today.

      Personally, I would have put a bullet in all three of them, but this is supposed to be a kindler, gentler, more forgiving society these days. . . . .

    5. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's fine and all but the people who would be responsible (or ultimately responsible) are the same ones who would be demanding responsibility. So nothing will get done and the pleb will get the stick.

    6. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see why Shane Gaskill should be held responsible for somebody else's reckless actions. If I were to post a random address here along with "Try something" should I by changed if somebody goes to that address and kills the resident? I personally don't think so.

      That's nice, but I personally think otherwise. You post an address to somebody you think is crazy and dangerous, that means you're risking other's lives. Even if you're some sappy girl who is thinking a stalker is after her when some guy flirts for a second shouldn't do that.

    7. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Powercntrl · · Score: 2

      I don't see why Shane Gaskill should be held responsible for somebody else's reckless actions.

      I thought the same thing after the story originally broke, and apparently it comes down to Mr. Gaskill not being a good little comrade and contacting the authorities the second he found out shit got real. Okay, that part I can kind of understand. Going to the cops doesn't always have the outcome you're hoping for.

      But then it gets weird: Mr. Gaskill actually contacted the guy who "hired" the swatter and told him to destroy any evidence of what had transpired. That's a really strange thing to do for someone whose prank could've very likely gotten you killed if the SWAT team hadn't gone to someone else's house.

      It appears the whole lot of 'em are a bunch of deranged fucks, and they all probably deserve varying degrees of time locked away from society.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    8. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Iwastheone · · Score: 1

      No my friend, it's the theaters fault for not making space to get to the exits.

      Bullshit! If you yell 'fire' when there is no fire, you created a panic situation that got scared people trampled by people trying to escape. You, as the person who screamed "Fire!" are the cause of any injuries/deaths that happened. You caused the situation. You should be held responsible for your actions.

    9. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. If you create an environment that could be reasonably understood to be unsafe then you have ultimate and extreme liability

    10. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get with the times. Everyone is at fault for everything. It's all about how far down the chain of events you feel like going.

      It's the people who trampled the poor sap who are responsible for their death.
      The man shouting 'fire' caused the trampling.
      The theater being too small made it possible.
      Everyone who had a hand in approving the construction plans for, and building the theater made it possible.
      All the parents who gave birth to the man, the tramplers and the victim made it all possible.
      Anyone who encountered the man prior to the event made no attempt to stop him from going to the theater.
      I could keep going...

      Everyone here has done it in political arguments or to save their own ass at one time or another.

    11. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by fafalone · · Score: 1

      But if the fire fighter walks in, doesn't see any fire yet but gets so scared of the potential fire he splits your head with his axe to get you out of the way while trying to run back out the door, he'd also share in the responsibility no? That's the better equivalent to what happened here. No actual danger to the officer, and no action taken that would justify murder.

    12. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by fafalone · · Score: 1

      Dude you don't get to use lethal force against someone just because you're scared but not actually in danger. What is your obsession with allowing police to execute unarmed people who've done absolutely nothing threatening when the cop is far away and behind cover? That's unjustified murder, get a grip. You have to wait until there's an actual threat to kill someone.

    13. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gotcha. The phone book is a terrorist.

    14. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck that. it's the people doing the trampling who are at fault. in fact, we should intentionally do this as part of a eugenics program. if anyone panics kill them and their entire genetic line.

    15. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the fault of fire.
      If fire didn't have such a horrid reputation, if fire wouldn't burn people so maliciously, then people wouldn't grow up learning to fear fire. There would have been no panic, no trampling; they'd just have told the shouting man to quiet down, a movie was on. No one needed to die that day, if only fire just wasn't so... fiery.
      I hold with favoring fire to be at fault.

    16. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone's at fault except for the authorities. You know, the ones with the power to change *all* of that. But somehow, they aren't responsible for *their* actions or results...

      Maybe if we started capping their asses, they'd get in line.

    17. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has always been an idiotic argument. If people are trampled because someone yelled fire, then theatre was unsafe and the fact that was exposed without there actually being a fire likely saved more lives than any lost during the trampling. At most it is disturbing the peace.

    18. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I'd step on you
      To see the Who!

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is interesting case in that finding this guy guilty of basically manslaughter (not sure what the actual crime would be for which he will serve 20, but probably something similar).

      It implies, legally, that there is a reasonable chance that a SWAT team will kill someone...

  10. Quack! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good. Duck that asshole.

    1. Re: Quack! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moral to the story is just never talk to Americans. Never. For any reason. The Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, etc. don't have major moral failings (well, the Europeans are morally weak). At least we have California.

  11. I wonder who God blames by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The loser is the Finch family. And Andrew Finch's niece shot herself in a suicide attempt.

    1. Re:I wonder who God blames by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Barris, of course.

  12. Remorse by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    “If I could take it back, I would, but there is nothing I can do,” Barriss told the court. “I am so sorry for that.”

    Uh, no, you cunt. You showed that you have no remorse throughout the whole ordeal.

    --
    Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    1. Re: Remorse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed. That shitbag even snuck online in the jail and bragged about getting away with it, and that he'd do it again. 20 years is too good for him. I vote for a rail gun human cannonball launch into LEO. You get electrocution, vacuum death, and a nice meteor burning up at the end. Now that's Monday night rehabilitation!

  13. I say fry the fuckers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no time or place for this type of prepubescent bullshit. This was done with full knowledge that someone could be seriously injured or killed. These dip shits knew exactly what they were doing and they knew it was wrong. I have absolutely zero sympathy for these convicted fuckers. I only wish the system would have handed out heavier sentences. In case you didn't bother to actually look into it these fuck faces literally ruined an entire families being.

    That does not mean that I am not placing any blame on the police, SWAT and other agencies that royally fucked up too. I mean how hard would it have been to call the fucking house and verify a randomly reported crime in progress. Unfortunately there will be no justice served there so I can only hope that meaningful policy and practice reform has actually taken place and not just PR management.

    1. Re: I say fry the fuckers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doubtful. But if you don't like governments actions then throw the bums out or join a campaign and be a robocaller lol.

  14. Re:I'm w/ you EXCEPT for 1 thing... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rotflmao "LEROY's TeddyBear"

  15. people still blaming cops by hdyoung · · Score: 1, Insightful

    People still blaming the cops on this one. Get a clue, please. This is the US. Guns outnumber people. It's just a cold, hard fact: US cops have to deal with a population that's swimming in guns, and it's their responsibility to somehow keep the "peace" So they assume that pretty much everyone they encounter is packing, which means they're going to escalate to gunfire very, very quickly in response to anything outside of "normal, quite street scene".

    Cops are like this because of the choices we've made as a civilization about guns. We engineered this situation. I'm not making value judgments - just pointing out that the trade-off is absolutely clear. We really, really, really, really want free ownership of guns. But freedom isn't free - the cost is a high murder rate, school shootings and swat events gone bad. And it's obvious to me that we're generally ok with this tradeoff as a group. When gun violence makes the news, 20% of the population wrings their hands, 20% of the population goes out and buys more guns, and 60% shrugs their shoulders. After 72 hours everyone forgets about it. The dead get buried, maybe someone goes to prison, insurance companies write a few checks, more guns go into circulation, and everyone hangs around till the next event. We could have gotten rid of the guns decades ago if we really wanted to.

    Oh, and here's a message to any NRA type who comes back with "guns don't cause increased violence" or "guns make schools safer" or any variant of that: shut the f*** up, grow a pair, and admit that your favorite toy comes with a blood price. No, your family is NOT safer cause you have a gun in the nightstand. Yes, school shootings are DEFINITELY linked to easy gun availability. Yes, our sky high murder rate is BECAUSE of guns. For Gods sake, just own up to the price we pay instead of hiding behind something that Charleton Heston spewed in support of a gun industry lobby. You'll get a ton more respect from me.

    The swatter orchestrated an incredibly dangerous situation and is the one to blame for this. For what's basically a murder (not first degree) 20 years seems reasonable. He's not in for life, but he'll be in a cage long enough that his testosterone levels will be way lower when he gets out. He probably won't be a threat by then.

    1. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The average police department's area of service comes with a danger level that's lower than working in an Amazon warehouse, and mile per mile, the US is far safer than any other country on the planet.

      Maybe it's time you stop dialating your anus and ask yourself why leftist-ruled cities are filled with levels of violence that make Blackhawk Down look like The Sound of Music. It isn't lawful gun owners that are causing our "sky high" murder rates, it's your sad and failed mismanagement.

    2. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Earlier in our history more people had guns and even carried them around everywhere, yet police weren't gunning people down. Society as a whole has gotten worse with more of a "yay me, fuck everyone else" attitude. Everyone used to handle dangerous things just fine. The guns haven't changed, we have. Only 43% of households have guns which is the lowest its been in 40 years (according to a quick Google search).

      The cops are rightfully blamed on this because they didn't confirm if the guy who opened the door was a hostage or the criminal, they just shot him while safely hiding behind cover. Police quickly escalate to lethal force because that's how they're been trained. Training is very much a "us vs them" attitude rather than the "how may I be of service" it used to be. If you don't respond immediately to their commands when you're suddenly thrust into a confusing situation, you'll be gunned down because you are resisting them. Better be 110% safe and kill everyone else than take the slightest risk because "fuck you I'm better than you". Training used to be all about deescalation instead of brute force tactics.

      Though I'll agree with you that having a gun in the house makes the place a little less safe. The stats back that up.

      I don't believe guns cause an increased violence, but they do increase the amount of damage when violence occurs. Guns don't magically make people angry, unless you're arguing about guns.

    3. Re: people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you fucking kidding me? Watch the many videos available. The cops straight up killed someone for nothing. They didn't even know who it was. An innocent confused person with no weapons. Cops suck.

    4. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    5. Re:people still blaming cops by spth · · Score: 1

      Your are wrong.

      Your "mile per mile"-claim obviously is false when comparing to very sparsely populated countries, such as Greenland (nearly the same rate of homicides per capita as the US, but very sparsely populated).

      And per capita it is well known to be false, as European countries have far lower rates. Including those with far lower gun ownership rates than the US, such as Germany (about one fifth the homicide rate of the US), and those with gun ownership rates higher than the US, such as Switzerland (about one tenth the homicide rate of the US).

      And there are small countries, such as the Vatican, which hasn't had a homicide since 1998 (though it has one of the highest per-capita crime rates in the world due to the small number of citizens vs. large number of visitors).

    6. Re:people still blaming cops by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 3, Informative

      Gun ownership in Switzerland is higher "on paper only". First of all they have strict rules for carrying a weapon. Secondly the guns/rifles are in possession of members of the militia. Weapon and ammunition is locked away in different lockers, ammunition amount is minimal. In case of mobilization they gather at assigned points with their base equipment they have at home, and specialists who bring transportation and orders bring the extra ammunition.

      Perhaps one from Switzerland can comment more precisely how it exactly works.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The rules for carrying a weapon in Switzerland are simple enough (I'm a Swiss citizen living in Switzerland and a retired NCO): you can carry your weapon to competition or out-of-service (mandatory if you're in active service) shooting events unloaded, ammunition is provided on site. When you retire from active service you may keep your service weapon if you have a good service status and have attended enough mandatory out of service exercise, then your rifle is converted to semiauto-only. At home you can keep what you want, you need a buying permit for semiauto weapons of all categories, pump-action or lever action guns, and small arms, which is issued by the police with no problems if you have a clean criminal record and no "troubled history" so to speak (which is, you have been causing troubles but were not indicted). Bolt-action or single shot weapons require no permit. You can buy all the ammo you want but you have to sign for it and the cops may want to talk to you if you buy a lot, but if it was to save on money or you bought it in bulk with some friends, it's no problem. To carry a weapon you need a carry permit which again is issued by the police but you need a reason (like you're a security agent, even freelance) and you have to pass a theory exam and a practical exam. The latters must be repeated every 3 years. For a dedicated shooter it's quite easy and if you're been in any line position in the Swiss Army it's dead easy. I have been carrying now for 10 years. Swiss laws on firearms are not lax, they're quite restrictive but they're not complicated. You need very little paperwork, but you've got to prove yourself. They're quite good IMHO.

    8. Re:people still blaming cops by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Sounds like their militia is pretty well regulated.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just a cold, hard fact: US cops have to deal with a population that's swimming in guns, and it's their responsibility to somehow keep the "peace" So they assume that pretty much everyone they encounter is packing, which means they're going to escalate to gunfire very, very quickly in response to anything outside of "normal, quite street scene".

      Well if they "know" their suspect is packing, why don't they carry bulletproof shields? Then even if the suspect is hiding a gun behind him and suddenly shoots at them, the shields will prevent injury. At that point, they can return fire, but not before. There needs to be a change in the police dept.'s trigger-happy policy.

      https://bulletsafe.com/product...

    10. Re:people still blaming cops by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People still blaming the cops on this one. Get a clue, please.

      We have a clue. The police responded to a complete anonymous tip with deadly force and no attempt to even identify what the situation is let alone diffuse it. In any other country the police officer would be in jail. There are levels of escalation and the side with an overwhelming advantage in this one sided confrontation responded with unwarranted deadly force.

      Have you seen the Hateful Eight? "Anybody moves a little weird....little sudden--gonna get a bullet. Not a warning. Not a question; a bullet. Let me hear you say, 'I got it'." See even fucking Quentin Tarantino when writing a bloodbath knows how to communicate a warning.

      The swatter orchestrated an incredibly dangerous situation and is the one to blame for this

      You've boiled a complicated situation escalated by many people down to blaming a single person. You sir are an idiot.

    11. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, they are pretty poorly trained, and get very little time firing their weapons.

      Oh, did you not know what "well regulated" meant? It means: "In good working order; fully functioning".

    12. Re: people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the fuck would I, much less anyone else, need your respect?

      Your arrogance, ignorance and oversimplification of the situation are more than enough to discount your nonsense.

    13. Re:people still blaming cops by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      I can see how someone who has watched TV news their entire life, and never met anyone who owns a gun, might form the opinion that you have. The trade-off that you suppose does not exist: there is something else going on that I think most non-gun-owners just don't see. Let me try to help you bridge the gun culture gap that I see in America.

      I live in a suburb about 20 minutes outside of one of the most dangerous cities in America. When I moved here, I didn't realize how many people nearby me have guns. A bunch of my coworkers talk guns in the lunch room, and my team lead took me shooting. Apparently he likes modifying guns - adding sights, etc. He is a mechanical engineer and has a machine shop where wants to make his own barrels, which is apparently very difficult. He has some antique guns that his father gave him that still work well. They are geeks about guns the way I am a geek about video games. It's just their hobby, and the connection between guns and violence is actually strange to them. The lead analyst on my project is a gun safety instructor. He doesn't approve of me letting my kids use Nerf guns. He says no one should ever point a gun at themselves or another person, even a toy one. He would rather I buy them a BB gun and teach them to shoot than to give them a Nerf gun or a water gun.

      Let me contrast this with gun ownership in that nearby city. An acquaintance of mine borrowed a gun from a neighbor, so he could scare off a group of thugs. One of these thugs was dating a girl, and treating her really badly. But she stayed with him because she had no money and no place to live. They are all heavy drug users so she probably gets her fix from her boyfriend and would go on withdrawal if she left him and lost her supply. This acquaintance of my was attracted to the girl, and he knew the thugs were poor and stupid. So he brought her food one night that he swiped from an alcoholics anonymous meeting, and he made sure the trio of thugs could see the gun, without him brandishing it. He thought it was hilarious - they treated him like he was a king, and they don't go by his house any more and if he wants to see the girl they don't give him a hard time.

      Both of these places have a gun culture. But one of those places has more than 1 murder a day whereas the other one, well I guess I don't know but it isn't in the news every night that's for sure. This area where I live is is super safe. We don't lock our doors, our cars aren't broken into or stolen - to me it is what I would call "normal." If you make a map of America and you overlay "gun crime" and "gun ownership" you get very little correlation. Especially if you only count LEGAL gun ownership. That lack-of-correlation kinda follows throughout the world. When a cop pulls me over, he doesn't assume I have a gun, and he doesn't shoot me when I reach for my wallet in my pocket.

      Oh, and here's a message to any NRA type who comes back with "guns don't cause increased violence" or "guns make schools safer" or any variant of that: shut the f*** up, grow a pair, and admit that your favorite toy comes with a blood price.

      Your insults betray your lack of knowledge. The truth is the correlation isn't there. There are European countries where every male over 18 owns at least one gun and gets mandatory training at 18. Yet their gun crime rates match the lower rate throughout Europe. There are plenty of places in America that show this out too. There is a real question we should be asking here, but if you assume guns are evil then you can't see past your own bias to ask it.

      The real question we should be asking is what *DOES* correlate with gun crime, if not gun ownership?? Good news: we have known the answer for decades! The answer is that it correlates negative with quality of education, standard of living, and stable home lives. The trouble is that violence correlates positively with violence, and gun crimes correlate positively with other gun crimes. So if your friend or family

    14. Re:people still blaming cops by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      It's not a gun culture, more like a gun fetishism. And I say that as a former firearm owner.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    15. Re: people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We get our service weapon on the second day of training and by the end of the first week we're shooting at both the 30 and 300m ranges. By the end of recruit school we've gone through hundreds of rounds and every refreshing course we run through a lot of them. Of course I was in infantry. Some other troops get less range time.

    16. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sucks being a convicted felon. Should have spent more money on your shyster.

    17. Re: people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yawn... A commie defending jackboots because OMG guns. You are a sniveling little shit and you should be deported.

    18. Re:people still blaming cops by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      WTF are you talking about? I simply sold my rifle a decade ago when I got bored with shooting at cardboard targets. As a bonus I don't need to own a metal cabinet anymore.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    19. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real question we should be asking is what *DOES* correlate with gun crime, if not gun ownership?? Good news: we have known the answer for decades! The answer is that it correlates negative with quality of education, standard of living, and stable home lives. The trouble is that violence correlates positively with violence, and gun crimes correlate positively with other gun crimes. So if your friend or family member was killed with a gun, you are more likely to kill with a gun. It's a vicious cycle. And nobody wants to teach in those areas, or provide quality services, and so it just gets reinforced and reinforced.

      Basically, most of the gun violence comes down to the poor being systematically screwed over by society.

      As Pofessor Camille Walsh points out in his book "Racial Taxation", the property tax-based education system in the USA in BOTH North and South was set up to along racial lines, to the disadvantage of minority groups such as blacks, native americans, and hispanics - and still largely functions the same way today despite the removal of overt racism.

      The net effects on society are bad.

      The rich districts get better schools, better police protection, better fire protection, lower insurance rates, and so forth. Poor districts (including many urban districts) would need much higher property tax rates to provide the same level of service - and they aren't allowed to raise the taxes that high.

      Four things combine to make a bad situation worse. The first is the problem with US health care. US citizens are spend 18% of GDP on health care versus 9-11% for every other developed nation, whether or not the other nation is single-payer (the health care issue fundamentally has NOTHING to do with socialism, despite the large amounts of propaganda to the contrary) - and yet the USA is behind most other developed nations (and - embarrassingly enough - even quite a few non-developed nations) in many key health care statistics (for many of these statistics, 30-40 other nations are ahead of the USA). The rich in the USA get great health care, but society as a whole, not so much.

      The second is the massive ethics problem in US law, a situation which has all kinds of economic impacts which are effectively equivalent (via compounding and feedback across the economy) to a substantial regressive tax (think about a VAT tax, i.e. applied at all levels not just at point of sale) that everybody pays.

      The third is the increased cost of education. In the 1930's, the average salary would pay for four years of Harvard. Today, the average salary won't even pay for one year of Harvard. But education has become especially important to financial success today - far more so then it was in the 1930's. To make matters worse, a lot of the cost of higher education isn't actually going to educate students (thanks to the issues like expensive paywalls, and the publish-or-perish system).

      The fourth problem is the increased incidence of rent-seeking in US law (Lindsey & Teles, The Captured Economy) by deeply entrenched special interest groups. This systematically deprives the poor of many opportunities. The USA is no longer the Land of Opportunity for the poor - and the historic migrations patterns of the poor to the big cities have actually been reversing in places like California (where the cities have some of the worst entrenched rent-seeking in the country).

      The net result of all of this is that the poor get repeatedly screwed - and they know this is happening.

      This is why the USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world, and the highest gun violence rate in the world (despite FAR lower gun ownership rates then existed in the USA in the past when the USA WAS a Land of Opportunity even for the poor).

      In the USA today, poor people (many from minority groups) turn to high risk, high reward activities such as drug trafficking, because they know there's no other way to get ahead. This in turn leads to gun violence that primarily affect

    20. Re: people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you are a commie misrepresenting the Constitution again.

    21. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People still blaming the cops on this one. Get a clue, please. This is the US. Guns outnumber people. It's just a cold, hard fact: US cops have to deal with a population that's swimming in guns, and it's their responsibility to somehow keep the "peace" So they assume that pretty much everyone they encounter is packing, which means they're going to escalate to gunfire very, very quickly in response to anything outside of "normal, quite street scene". ...
      Cops are like this because of the choices we've made as a civilization about guns. We engineered this situation. I'm not making value judgments - just pointing out that the trade-off is absolutely clear. We really, really, really, really want free ownership of guns. But freedom isn't free - the cost is a high murder rate, school shootings and swat events gone bad.

      You are jumping to completely erroneous conclusions. That makes you part of the problem, and not part of the solution.

      Firearms ownership rates have always been high in the USA, and have never correlated with crime rates. In fact, they are inversely correlated - and there are many cases where firearms prevent or stop crimes. Even in the periods of highest ownership, there was no need for the police to treat the streets as a war zone - and they didn't do that. Perhaps you have been watching too many Hollywood movies and have lost your sense of perspective?

      Firearms ownership or access rates are also high in several other developed nations today, all of which have much lower crime rates then the USA.

      A parallel can be drawn between the USA today and Northern Ireland. The violence in Ireland ended in large part because of a period of fantastic economic prosperity that followed centuries of poverty. People were making money hand over fist and that - along with other (less important) factors - helped end the terrorism. Nobody wanted terrorism to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs - and a lot of the disagreements between the factions had ultimately stemmed from economic inequality (and fear of future inequality) that no longer seemed relevant in the new general prosperity. The simple fact that the violence DID stop shows that religious considerations were secondary.

      The firearms violence in the USA today is primarily associated with the drug trade, which poor people - mostly minorities - enter because they are being routinely screwed over by the establishment. It's a high risk activity that also has the potential of high return - and when you have nothing else to hope for, that trade-off will be appealing to a lot of people - and who can blame them?

      In the past, the USA was a land of opportunity for much of it's history, and there were opportunities for all, rich and poor. Today - unlike the past - economic good health in the USA doesn't mean everybody benefits, it means the rich (and to a lessor extent the middle class) benefit. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Unlike in the past, each generation can no longer expect to have a better life then their parents did. The corruption, the rent seeking, the legal ethics problems, and so forth that are causing this situation seem to be getting ever more deeply entrenched, which means there isn't much hope of a better future for many.

      Fix that problem, and the gun violence will go away much like the terrorism did in Ireland.

      The other nations that today have high firearm ownership rates also take much better care of their people, including the poor, which is why they don't have high rates of firearm violence.

      It's not a question of socialism. The USA wasn't socialist in the past, and it doesn't need to let the workers control the means of production in the future. But there are serious economic problems that need to be fixed, and that requires change in government policies, change in the legal system, change in the way we regulate companies, and so forth.

      Unfortunately, conservatives are scared of change. They don't want to fix the prob

  16. Make an example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Strap him down into a restraint chair, and put a rigid RIPP-restraints mask on his face. Make his prison stay as uncomfortable as possible. Put the footage on Live Leak.

  17. He should get a death sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    like the man he killed for no reason.

  18. exactly by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 0

    In America when you see a cop, you're supposed to pull your pants down.

    1. Re:exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In America when you see a cop, you're supposed to pull your pants down.

      No, your pants are supposed to drop down on their own without your hands reaching anywhere near them.

    2. Re:exactly by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 0

      You're still expected to bend over though aren't you?

  19. Don't even try that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are NO perfect human beings. Putting a human being into a government uniform and training him or her to be more skilled than an amateur is a productive thing but is not going to make him/her super-human.

    As a result:

    If you pull a "swatting" stunt like this YOU are the one putting an imperfect human into that position and furthermore, the swatter is specifically arming that law enforcement personnel with false information, making the scenario even more unsafe and unfair for both the eventual victims and for law enforcement.

    Yes, it's true that in every swatting I have heard of the police did something imperfectly, but that's natural - that's the REAL WORLD. The swatter knows full-well that the police/swat/fire/paramedics etc will be imperfect people and that some might be poorly trained, or overly tired, or have recently been injured and now be more twitchy, or might be slightly distracted by thoughts of health or family or financial or career problems, or might have a glove that's too tight, or a bit of gravel in a shoe, or might be distracted at a critical moment by a dog or a passerby, or..... ANYTHING that happens with real humans in the real world.

    Ther person who does the swatting is completely responsible for setting up whatever mayhem results when imperfect but armed humans show up to an unknown-to-them situation thinking they need to save somebody's life while trying to avoid getting maimed or killed themselves. The swatter, in-effect, has risked the lives of a large number of people including not just the residents of the targeted address (who may be killed by the swat team), but also the swat team (who could be killed by each other or by an innocent homeowner who think's he's defending his family), and even any passers-by who have nothing to do with the event but could end up in the crossfire that might erupt. The swatter even endangers innocent people miles away who could be in a vehicle accident with various first responders going to the event, or racing to a hospital with wounded after such an event.

    Don't shift ANY blame from the idiot who pulls a pin on a grenade and tosses it into a crowd, to the person who responds to it by trying to shield people from the blast with his own body and fails to do so perfectly - which is the sort of re-direct you are pulling.

  20. Re: "Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times ov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh! What sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies? There is a pestilence upon this land... nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history.

  21. Charging the target by Krakadoom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It just seems weird to me that the intended target was charged as a co-conspirator. Was it for giving a fake (old) address? Seems a really low bar to co-conspire in something, if you can get charged for misdirection against and evading someone actively trying to cause you harm.

    1. Re:Charging the target by porlryan · · Score: 1

      He gave out the wrong address knowing that something could happen to the person living there. Thats highly irresponsible. He didn't have to misdirect or evade, he could have given him nothing.

    2. Re:Charging the target by Kjella · · Score: 1

      It just seems weird to me that the intended target was charged as a co-conspirator. Was it for giving a fake (old) address? Seems a really low bar to co-conspire in something, if you can get charged for misdirection against and evading someone actively trying to cause you harm.

      Depends on what glasses you put on. From the victim's point of view he's effectively the mastermind who used Barriss as his stooge to send the cops as hit men. He goaded and taunted Barriss into doing it, that he pretended to bring the harm on himself only makes him more liable as the one pulling the strings.

      Let's try an analogy: You've been sleeping with the wife/daughter of dangerous/violent criminal, but they don't know who you are. You taunt them with intimate details about her body/bedroom and they threaten to kill you if they find you. So you hand them the name and address of someone you hate and is like here I am, you haven't got the guts you big pussy. That's a little bit past evading harm, it's framing people to come to harm.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Charging the target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It just seems weird to me that the intended target was charged as a co-conspirator. Was it for giving a fake (old) address? Seems a really low bar to co-conspire in something, if you can get charged for misdirection against and evading someone actively trying to cause you harm.

      The bolded part, there is no situation in which you can believe that, lead your attacker towards someone else, not notify authorities, and get away with it after the other person got harmed.

    4. Re: Charging the target by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He actually encouraged the other you to "try something".

    5. Re:Charging the target by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Or the address of the local jail.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  22. Proceute the Police, Too. by BrendaEM · · Score: 0

    We cannot have a society that will kill on a stranger's word.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    1. Re: Proceute the Police, Too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, we do.

  23. I'm w/ you EXCEPT for 1 thing... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Those little shits are going to GET IT RIGHT UP THE ASS from some TWISTED "Big Black Buck" in jail (worse than death - means AIDS probably & suffering for the little FUCKS).

    * THINK ABOUT IT!

    (They'll be in worse suffering then DEATH by far - then, throw on the "salad tossing"'s they'll be MADE to do too? You get the picture...)

    APK

    P.S.=> Serves little "SCHEMERS" right - I'd love to be there watching them get "CORKED" real nice like, lol - as LEROY's "TeddyBear"... apk

  24. Not too much is going to happen to him in prison by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    He is going into the Feds, not State.

    Even with no time served, he is eligible for about 32 months of Good Conduct Time, so, his projected release will be about 17.5 years out. Since he's under 20 years, he's eligible for Low Security. He is young, though, so he might still wind up designated to a Medium. Depends what the analysts in Texas think of him.

    Regardless, even if he goes to a Medium, it's not going to be one of the warrior academies. He would probably go somewhere like Allenwood, Butner, or maybe even Lexington.

    I'm not saying it's going to be fun, but it's not going to be Shawshank, either.

    Ooh! I just remembered. I think they revamped the Good Time calculation recently. He may serve even less than 17.5 years.

  25. The problem is not 'how much' training. by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    The problem is 'what' training. When you repeatedly tell the officer to shoot if there is fast motion where you can't see both hands, that's what they're going to do. Telling them the same thing more often is not going to make them stop. You have to actually change the thing you're telling them to do.

  26. YOU imagine by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    You're sitting at home watching TV and there's a commotion outside. A loud voice starts demanding that you exit your home. You go open the door to see what is happening.

    A bunch of people (cops?). You're surrounded. Bright lights, you're blinded. You're confused.

    Let's consider that for a second: YOU ARE CONFUSED.

    Next, you make some random movement with your hand (NOT going for a gun - you don't have a gun!) and the next sound you hear is harps, 'cause you're gone.

    Why didn't the COPS imagine this? Why isn't part of their training to understand that when you point guns at people and yell at them, some of them get confused? Being confused during a police encounter should not result in a death sentence.

    Everyone keeps saying that the swatter is the only one with culpability here. This police force made their SWAT team available for this activity. Don't they have at least as much culpability as someone who leaves a loaded gun where a child can find it and be injured or killed?

    1. Re:YOU imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beyond that, am I alone in never being able to understand anything said over a bullhorn or other PA system? It all seems to come out like a bunch of garbled noise.

      Honestly though, it seems to me like what US SWAT teams, and groups of police officers seem to lack are rules of engagement. I mean, I'm sure that they have them, but it never sounds like they follow them. I mean, who ordered the officer who fired to fire in this situation? Who notified the officers present that there was a weapon in play? Who ordered that returning fire was ok? Why does it always seem like these situations are just a bunch of cowboys showing up and doing their own thing?

  27. Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This piece of scum needs to spend a long time thinking about what a loser he is. The only problem is that the cop who shot the innocent, unarmed man in his own home won't see any kind of penalty. Cops have a free license to kill any and citizens in the USA.

  28. Yes, but... by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is tough to be right 100% of the time. You're right.

    But when you are the guy who is wrong that one time, and you kill some innocent person, and it happens because of your personal judgement (nobody else was shooting, just YOU), you should be held accountable.

    I am a convicted felon. I could have died coming out of that last bank, would have been nobody's fault but my own. I get that.

    MOST police shootings are justified. I get that. Hell, I subscribe to Donut Operator's channel on YouTube.

    When they are not justified, though, we are not served by a justice culture that protects bad shooters.

    1. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a convicted felon. I could have died coming out of that last bank, would have been nobody's fault but my own. I get that.

      If that would have been the only readily available option for police to keep you from killing someone. Particularly in a hostage situation, that can be a very tricky judgment call. But the principal job of police is to apprehend suspects, not execute them. The latter is a decision for judge and jury to make, assuming that this is a penalty they are authorized to decide on.

  29. "normal, quite street scene" by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    I would just point out that it WAS a "normal, quite street scene" until the cops showed and executed that guy.

  30. involuntary cornhole activity by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1, Troll

    Not much of that in the Feds, especially at lower security levels.

    1. Re:involuntary cornhole activity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Memoirs from people like Michael Santos agree.

      The key thing about lower security is that everybody there knows that if they get in a fight, they'll immediately be transferred to a place where it's harder to get contraband and movement is controlled so you can't just go into a vacant classroom and cry like you can in a minimum security camp. It really does keep things peaceable.

  31. A hard job by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    Yes, they do a hard job, and mostly they do it well.

    When they do it badly though, as in this case, accountability is critical.

    Do you recognize that tense relations between police and community increases danger to the police officers? Then let's also recognize that this greatly increases that tension.

    1. Re:A hard job by zugmeister · · Score: 2

      You mean shooting the people you're supposed to be protecting engenders ill will? Who would have thought!

  32. Officer Justin Rapp, the shooter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Officer Justin Rapp, the person who actually pulled the trigger, testified about the event and said he didn't see a gun, just saw him moving briefly towards his waist: https://www.kansas.com/news/lo...

    Pretty much matches up with the other descriptions given - not sure why so few news outlets mention the officer's name.

  33. Re:Not too much is going to happen to him in priso by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1 Informative.

    He'd better hope he doesn't get sick though. What the Bureau of Prisons does instead of medical care is a scandal. There are many examples but for a recent one see Kiriakou's reporting from FCI Loretto.

    Even minimum security is pretty miserable. Imagine 17.5 years of no sex, no Internet, and at most 5 books while being pushed around by chickenshit people.

  34. When you go to prison by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 0

    You learn that all of that stupid bullshit about prisons you saw in movies is not real.

    1. Re: When you go to prison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      You're in denial. Normal for many rape victims like yourself.

  35. Florida Man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A startling entry for the competitor of the infamous Florida Man.

  36. Real Charges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So when does the cop who shot and killed an innocent man get charged with murder? Oh, right, they will never be held accountable.

  37. Re: That makes you a psychopath by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cop shot an innocent man on heresay. He was protected by the thin blue wagon circle. The police aren't only incompetent, they are corrupt and treasonous and you're an authoritarian ass-licker.

  38. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

    s/Kid/Cop/

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  39. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Millennium · · Score: 2

    Both of them. A hitman and his client are held in equal culpability for the homicide they commit together; so it should be with this.

  40. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Fair point. It doesn't need to be either/or.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  41. HERESAY?!?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A scumbag made a false police report indicating a crime was in progress - and did it with the intent to cause chaos.

    Nothing about that says the police are corrupt - they were not taking bribes or anything.

    Nothing about that says the police are treasonous - they were not undermining national security.

    Yes, local police can be rather dumb about making raids on hot crime scenes and that needs to be addressed very seriously all across the country, but that problem would never come into play without a criminal scumbag making a false police report.

    I'm absolutely no authoritarian - I'd love to see both George W Bush and Barack H Obama in prison for life. I'm for the smallest government possible and it doing only the handful of stuff the Constitution says it should do. The only "ass licker" around here seems to be you and your apparent fetish for a criminal scumbag who probably leans toward anarchism.

    You not only had no argument at all, your insults were not even coherent.

  42. Now punish the triggerman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Twenty years would be good for the cop too. As long as they are Neptunian years.