Andrew Yang Plans To Use a 3D Hologram For Remote Campaigning (nymag.com)

Andrew Yang, the presidential candidate who supports Universal Basic Income and has attracted a devoted online following, is planning to use a 3D hologram on the campaign trail. "On Wednesday he gave the #YangGang, which is what his supporters call themselves, their first look at it," reports New York Magazine. From the report: The hologram's debut came on TMZ Live, which showed a video of Yang's hologram performing a duet alongside a hologram of his "hero," Tupac. "I was doing a demo of what a hologram would consist of in order to send the hologram of me to campaign in Iowa or other battleground states," he said.

Last month, Yang spoke about his hologram plans with Iowa newspaper, The Carroll Daily Times Herald. "We are exploring rolling a truck out that would enable someone to see a hologram of me that is three-dimensional give my stump speech," Yang told the paper. "And, also, if I were in a studio, which we could set up very easily, I could beam in and take questions live." Yang also told the paper that he plans to use hologram technology to remind voters that "it is 2019, and soon it will be 2020, and things are changing."

Comments

Reminds me of a Woody Allen's "Sleeper"

[tomhath]

Instead of the Nose he can campaign as the Yang.

Re:Reminds me of a Woody Allen's "Sleeper"

[jgtg32a]

Adopted, but yes

How is he getting so much attention?

[aicrules]

Someone explain that please....

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[Anonymous Coward]

The media is heavily biased and pushes every random leftist.

We've been getting fluff pieces for that Pete Buttgag guy all the way in goddamn Germany.

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes he really knows how to fluff.

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shareblue AstroTurf. This idiot is their answer to Trump.

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[Anonymous Coward]

He doesn't want to grab women by the pussy nor places his hands on them with uncomfortable hugs and uncomfortable kisses. He's pushing for leftist ideas that as a platform represent more of what the public says they want than most other platforms even bother to discuss--honestly, 99% of people don't care about immigration except as a reaction to politicians making it an issue, yet that's the discussion of the day that's used to wedge people for votes. He's pretty calm and rational in speech, and he seems not only willing but capable of listening to views he doesn't agree with and discussing why those views should either change or otherwise are incorrect.

Or as a lot of Democrats and Republicans would put it, he's some sort of left wing fanatical elitist and whtever you do don't look at the man behind the curtain that is our dog and pony show masquerading as political discourse. Now get back over here and be enraged and focus on the stuff we tell you that's important even though no matter the outcome it has about zero effect on your lives! The last thing we want you to do is focus on real change where failure to deliver gives good reason to fire us or for which if the legislation succeeds but the results aren't what was expected we might lose because are ideals are proven wrong!

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[drinkypoo]

He's the only candidate promoting the only realistic patch on capitalism. If you want capitalism to continue supporting our population, we're gonna need UBI. Otherwise, we need something other than capitalism, or we're gonna have to kill off a whole lot of people. And the targets are gonna be you and me, since we're not part of the 1%.

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[DarkOx]

He's the only candidate promoting the only realistic patch on capitalism.

Umm no UBI is about as far away from free market exchange as you can get. Also we more or less already have a means tested version of it in the form of the EIT (earned income tax credit). Given the failure of that to solve all of our problems, I think the claim that UBI somehow would requires some extraordinary evidence. You can make some no-true-scottsman arguments about EIT but the reality UBI has been tried and more or less exists now and doubling down on it isn't going to make it work any better.

If you want capitalism to continue supporting our population, we're gonna need UBI.

Hmm capitalism has proven it can support a larger population than economic system in place before it ever has. Every single claim population bomb, chicken little sky is falling prediction has been wrong; why should this time be different?

 

Otherwise, we need something other than capitalism, or we're gonna have to kill off a whole lot of people.

Nope Nope and Nope. The birthrate in the most capitalistic parts of the world is already below the replacement rate. Malthus is thoroughly debunked now.

And the targets are gonna be you and me, since we're not part of the 1%.

I don't know what to say to this, other than stop watching quite so much MSNBC.

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[Shotgun]

Because he is talking about something. . .ANYTHING. . . other than reparations?

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[DNS-and-BIND]

The problem with his leftism is that the idea that two people acting in good faith can look at the same set of facts and reach different conclusions has gone from unspoken assumption to exotic claim. People arenâ(TM)t just wrong on this or that issue: Theyâ(TM)re morally flawed. They donâ(TM)t have bad politics: Theyâ(TM)re bad people. You actually find college professors and politicians using Nazi analogies to attack people who disagree with them on mundane points of policy.

Re:How is he getting so much attention?

[drinkypoo]

You can make some no-true-scottsman arguments about EIT but the reality UBI has been tried and more or less exists now

EITC and UBI are fundamentally different as you get UBI whether or not you earn anything.

Hmm capitalism has proven it can support a larger population than economic system in place before it ever has.

Agreed.

Every single claim population bomb, chicken little sky is falling prediction has been wrong; why should this time be different?

Every one before has been the same. This one is fundamentally different because it attacks the class of jobs that the people who've lost their jobs traditionally defected to.

Otherwise, we need something other than capitalism, or we're gonna have to kill off a whole lot of people.

Nope Nope and Nope. The birthrate in the most capitalistic parts of the world is already below the replacement rate.

You don't understand the argument. If people don't have jobs, and they don't have UBI, then they're just going to be problems to be disposed of.

That won't work

[Nidi62]

"This guy is so elitist he can't even be bothered to leave his comfy studio and come out here and speak to us in person? I'm sure as hell not voting for him."

Re: That won't work

[Nidi62]

That would be awesome if he had a headless Agnew carry around his head in jar like in Futurama.

He could pay the UBI in Nixonbucks!

Re:That won't work

[MobyDisk]

Only people who have never heard of "television" would make such an argument.

Re:That won't work

[Rick Schumann]

That was the second thing I thought of.
The first thing I thought of, was "..he's for UBI? Well that excludes him from serious consideration, he's obviously either delusional or wants to destroy the United States".

UBI won't work. Period. Why? Look at how rich kids, who have never had to work a day in their lives, being handed everything gratis, act: entitled, spoiled, lazy ('work' would be a totally alien concept to them), despotic. Now imagine a low-rent version of that. That's what the fist generation raised in a world of UBI would be like. We'd ruin the country, we'd ruin entire generations of kids. Nope, nope, nope.

Re:That won't work

[Rick Schumann]

Only people who have no concept of 'respect' would say what you just said.
If you're going to make 'public appearances' to get people's votes, then you have to make a public appearance, not mock them by sending a 'hologram'.
If he can't be bothered to make the effort then why should anyone believe he'll make the effort as POTUS either?
Won't happen anyway. UBI is a dark Pipe Dream, that alone guarantees his failure.

Re:That won't work

[DigiShaman]

"What the hell is a "television"??! (spoken in valley talk speak) - some millennial.

Re:That won't work

[Junta]

If this is 'instead of making them watch a television screen like my opponents, they can see a nicer thing', that's one thing.

But he's going to be going to be up against people actually bothering to show up.

It may be silly, but actually getting to be in person is still considered important to prove that the candidate thinks enough of the people to show up. A lot of voters would react just like the parent post said, 'screw this elitist and his hologram' is a likely reaction among people that would normally care about a local rally happening.

Re:That won't work

[Junta]

I'm skeptical as well, but I don't think UBI would be 'free ride' but rather 'barely survivable when augmented by some sort of job or meager savings'.

Re:That won't work

[tlhIngan]

UBI won't work. Period. Why? Look at how rich kids, who have never had to work a day in their lives, being handed everything gratis, act: entitled, spoiled, lazy ('work' would be a totally alien concept to them), despotic. Now imagine a low-rent version of that. That's what the fist generation raised in a world of UBI would be like. We'd ruin the country, we'd ruin entire generations of kids. Nope, nope, nope.

No, and communism actually proves that doesn't happen. Yes, communism.

First off, UBI provides just the basics. The basics (food, shelter) aren't terrific - and while there will probably be people who don't mind living like that, ask anyone on welfare today that they'd like to move out of their squalor, if the system wasn't so biased against them (clawbacks and such making it if you work, you don't get anywhere). This is where UBI differs since it doesn't clawback and it turns out, people want to work. Sure it might be nice to sit around all day watching TV, but it turns out the vast majority of people can't live like that - they'll go stir crazy.

Plus, like I said, basics. People want more.; Perhaps you like living in a single room apartment, with shared living spaces and kitchen and bathrooms, but work a little bit to upgrade yourself to a private apartment with all that to yourself is a huge upgrade. Or maybe you want to live in a standalone house with a white picket fence. Your UBI freebie money won't be enough to pay the rent for that, let alone own it.

And you probably want a car, or some sort of enhanced transportation options.

Spoiled rich kids do all sorts of crazy things, but they've got the resources to do so. They don't have to work, because everything they could want, they can have. But if you want that private kitchen and bathroom you've got to work for it, and it turns out, people actually do.

And why I said communism proves it? It's the biggest downfall of the system - with the central planning giving everyone the same thing, they're squelching the human desire for more. When you and everyone else has the same apartment, you can bet someone wants one that's bigger, on a higher or lower floor, or has air conditioning, or whatever. It's human nature. And that's where discontent sets in.

Re:That won't work

[Rick Schumann]

*weary sigh* listen buddy it won't work plain and simple, basic arithmetic will show it'll bankrupt the country in the first year or two that on top of everything else I've ever said shows it just will not work I wish you people would just accept reality and more on, please?

Re:That won't work

[MobyDisk]

Only people who have no concept of 'respect' would say what you just said.

That's not all. I don't understand "what is going on in the news" and I'm not "likeable" and I don't "get along with people" and when I go to work I don't "make eye contact" and I don't "wear the latest clothes" and when I sweat I don't "shower" and I "make babies cry.".

Oh sorry, I didn't get to see the rest of your comment since I was so distracted by the ad-homimem attack against me. But please go on to explain why a hologram disrespectful but a a television appearance is not.

And I support a chicken in every pot

[cascadingstylesheet]

And I support a chicken in every pot ...

But anyway, how is this better than a 2D video conference? Or for that matter, just Luddite text?

Re:And I support a chicken in every pot

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know, it worked quite well for Melenchon 2 years ago in France. For two weeks media were talking about his hologram instead of talking about the other candidates.
US is a different market though.

-o-

[easyTree]

"Please state the nature of the medical emergency."

Simple: He's promising you other people's money.

[Anonymous Coward]

That gets the attention of a lot of people, especially the leftist media.

Black Mirror anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waldo_Moment

Re:Black Mirror anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

The episode first aired on 25 February 2013, so you'd be more accurate if you said that Trump's candidacy & presidency is a parody of Waldo.

Emaphasis. Holoviz

[goombah99]

Right. It grates on me when they call it a hologram.
Why can't they come up with something equally sexy sounding.
On the other hand if it gets people excited about holography and "Science" then that's not a bad thing even if it's a misunderstanding.

The trouble is real holograms will be a lot more disappointing! A real holgogram will have a quality will be way lower yet the net effect will for practical stage purposes be identical to the audience.

But why not call it holoviz or something just a little different.

Re:Emaphasis. Holoviz

[mark-t]

It grates on me when they refer to this stuff as holograms as well.

The notion that a hologram is any image which somehow appears to be hovering in real 3D space, and is basically nothing more than an illusion which was invented in the 1860's, is something that has been perpetuated by the media and pop culture recently, and quite honestly, it actually kinda pisses me off.

A hologram is not a two-dimensional image projected onto a sheet of glass hanging in space, nor is it something that simply "looks" like it its three-dimensional, it is an image that actually *IS* three-dimensional... in that when you see if from different angles, you see the image as you would see a physical object at the same angle. When you are close enough to a hologram, the difference between your left eye view and right eye view will be enough that you will perceive real depth, just as if you were looking through a window at some real object just on the other side of it. Technically, a hologram is not even an image at all, but actually just the capturing of a "light field", and when light which is shone on it interacts with that field, it will recreate the image as it originally was when the hologram was made, appearing not simply as a 2-dimensional image, but as three-dimensional one that looks different from different angles just a real object would.

Oh for fuck sakes, that's NOT a hologram

[mark-t]

That technique is over a century old and is referred to as "Pepper's Ghost". It is well established technique used in illusion and other entertainment.

A hologram is a *THREE* dimensional image, not a two-dimensional one projected onto glass.

As you move relative to the position of a hologram, your perspective of it changes just as it would if you were to move around an actual 3-dimensional object, and even the differences between what your left eye sees and right eye sees will be different enough at close distances that your brain will tell you you are looking at something with actual depth.

No so-called "hologram" of Tupac ever did that.

New policy

[Anonymous Coward]

Legalize whatever he is smoking. I want some.

This will never happen or end badly.

[EnderWiggum]

Ever see a regular person try to run a powerpoint presentation? What is the success rate? I predict the hologram will never work and/or will fail constantly. It'll make for good entertainment.

Welfare for billionaires

[Anonymous Coward]

That gets the attention of a lot of people, especially the leftist media.

It's amazing how you people never bring up "other people's money" when billionaires get local taxpayers to pay for the sports stadiums for their professional ball teams. The taxpayer never sees any benefit for it.

Or when they tool around in their private jets and get the benefit of taxpayer funded air traffic control and airports.

And of course the use of the taxpayer funded interstate system that allows them to make their billions.

But when regular people want some basic single payer healthcare, oh no! "other people's money!" Healthcare is a luxury in the USA. We have the most expensive system that is also the worst performing in the industrialized world. Why? More welfare for the billionaires. They rigged the system so that we have to do business with their ripoff insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

You know what? If AOC, Sanders, Warren somehow got what they promised for all us, OUR standard of living would go up. Yes, you too.

But you have been brainwashed by the conservative media (it's ALL controlled by big conservative corporate interests: yes, even MSNBC) that what they want is in your best interests.

Nope. Wake up! You're being played for a rube.

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[Anonymous Coward]

You really went down the rabbit hole quickly on that one. 'All of the billionaires' are not going to leave the United States because of taxes. Full on fear mongering that "we'd have another recession, or depression." You sound like you're trying to parrot Hannity, what a role model. "Socialist programs" do not equate to "socialism." You thinking things like that is a great example of why your public education should have been better funded.

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what? If AOC, Sanders, Warren somehow got what they promised for all us, OUR standard of living would go up. Yes, you too.

Yeah! Just like the 100 million citizens under Stalin, Lenin, Mao, and Kim Jong did! The standard of living was amazing under mass socialism!

Wait, what the fuck do you mean they ALL died?!?

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[Zorton]

"Socialist programs" do not equate to "socialism". Double plus redef word think.

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[cayenne8]

You know what? If AOC, Sanders, Warren somehow got what they promised for all us, OUR standard of living would go up. Yes, you too.

Maybe...for about all of a month of so, they the country would be on the precipice of being BROKE.

Even if you confiscated the entirety of the 1%'s assets, you could not fund all the free stuff AOC and crew are promoting.

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[Targon]

You must have missed that the reason the government has such a large deficit is because the wealthy keep hording their money in banks and offshore accounts and don't spend all that much compared to their income. As such, why give the wealthy tax breaks if the money doesn't go back into the economy in some way, shape, or form?

Government spending should be seen as an investment, with education being the thing that really does provide the biggest return on investment. Health care and keeping people from getting sick and to minimize time away from work also would be a huge return on investment, except that at the moment Medicare is primarily provided to the retired rather than the workers, so return on investment is relatively low there. Do we get a good return on investment when it comes to the military? Does the US government actually get money when we get involved in all of these wars, or is it going into the pockets of politicians who are corrupt?

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[Shotgun]

That gets the attention of a lot of people, especially the leftist media.

It's amazing how you people never bring up "other people's money" when billionaires get local taxpayers to pay for the sports stadiums for their professional ball teams.

Umm? It's amazing that you pay so little attention. That has been a big issue for conservatives MULTIPLE times, and they complain long and loud about it.

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[jpaine619]

It's amazing how you people never bring up "other people's money" when billionaires get local taxpayers to pay for the sports stadiums for their professional ball teams.

Of course it comes up. Most jurisdictions in the US require a public vote on it. The issue is that _most_ people are idiots. They don't understand that it's just another subsidy. We don't have Capitalism in the US anymore.. We have crony capitalism, corporate welfare, and an addiction to spending money. At every step the Government is engaged in crushing competition and small business.

Re:Welfare for billionaires

[Zorton]

You really missed the point of 1984. Control of the language is thought control which was kind of the whole point he was trying to get across.

All this from the human who won't even put a name to his words on a public forum.

Shall we just call him Big Brother now?

[GregMmm]

Don't worry, he'll take care of you....

We ain't one-at-a-timin' this campaign boys!

[SuperKendall]

Holograms delivered to every state on demand for a day of town halls around the country?

Now THAT is mass-communicatiin'!

Help Me Obi-Wan

[Megahard]

You're my only demographic.

This will work

[SuperKendall]

"Hey's he's communicating just like Princess Leia! He must be a man of the people!".

People think of you as elitist based on what you do. If what you do is appear to them in a hologram but then say even the poorest should get $1k/month as basic pay, that sure doesn't come off as elitist no matter how he arrives speaks to them. Pretty easily people can see that being able to talk to groups from many states in a day via a fancy FaceTime, is way less elitist than flying around the country by private jet.

Plus it's not like the rich are using holograms everywhere, so there's no basis for claiming he's elitist by using one - just smart.

Re:Like hillary?

[magzteel]

Trump had teams of angry people trying to pin him with something/anything. And?

Well, for a concrete item, there's the felony campaign finance violation that Cohen got convicted of where the court documents essentially said they would have indicted Trump but won't while he's president.

Cohen pleaded guilty to avoid more serious unrelated charges. It's very unlikely the payment to Stormy Daniels constituted a campaign finance violation but Mueller wanted Cohen to plead guilty to it to advance the narrative. See https://www.politifact.com/tru... for some discussion on the nuances of this law. Even if it is ultimately determined to be a violation, for something that small the penalty would just be a fine.

Tupac for President.

[geekmux]

"We are exploring rolling a truck out that would enable someone to see a hologram of me that is three-dimensional give my stump speech,"

Yeah, or you could just make a YouTube video like normal people do for your "stump speech" instead of pissing money away on pseudo-hologram bullshit. Way to demonstrate fiscal responsibility. I'm sure everyone will benefit with you leading the UBI efforts.

Yang also told the paper that he plans to use hologram technology to remind voters that "it is 2019, and soon it will be 2020, and things are changing."

Just because it's almost 2020 doesn't mean getting out there and greeting people in person is an outdated concept, but hey don't let me stop you from digging your own grave. At least you'll be livestreaming your own demise. That should be somewhat entertaining.

The hologram's debut came on TMZ Live, which showed a video of Yang's hologram performing a duet alongside a hologram of his "hero," Tupac.

His "hero", is Tupac? Yeah, I'm fucking done here. Hope 300 million citizens are too.

his "hero" is a convicted rapist

[Anonymous Coward]

Some choice of hero you've got there. Picking Tupac Shakur, a convicted rapist as your hero. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Re:his "hero" is a convicted rapist

[spacec0w]

While mostly mentioned by left-leaning politicians you should be aware that in its simplest form it would be a move to essentially dismantle the welfare state. The idea is that UBI replaces welfare, which would be eliminating millions of public positions and wasteful burocracy, thus saving money overall. Besides, I think once the right catches on it can be used as a tool to justify poverty even more than it is now, because we will all be able to smugly know that everyone on the street is receiving this same amount of money. So if they waste it, it's on them. No goverment or anyone else to blame. As to whether it would make people more lazy, sure, probably a little. What I think it would definitely do is eliminate or force higher salaries on the worst jobs, which might not be a bad thing. Then another thing probably would that this weird class of junkies who will have to crowd into small apartments to save on money will kind of spring up. I'm sure there will be tons of odd unintended consequences. But you should think about it a little more, it's obviously a lot more complicated than it seems you think. I think the right can and some day will push for it as well, but just with different motives.

His UBI Concepts

[turp182]

Include things like:
1. Holographic food
2. Holographic housing
3. Holographic money

I mean, if you're going to go holographic, you need to go all in.

Re: Yeah. Taxation is theft. Government is the pro

[Zorton]

Actually, they do here in Alaska. Some communities are so far outside the "fire service" area it isn't practical to respond to every call. Other's choose not to pay the taxes and the fire services will only respond if there is someone in the house, and the likely give you a nice bill. I had a friend who saw one of his neighbors houses go up in this exact way, he called the "local" fire department and reported the fire, they asked if anyone was home and when he said no, they told him to let it burn. The main concern was neighboring structures and forest fires since no lives were in danger.

Re:Disappointment

[mark-t]

Of course it's a cool optical trick, even when you *DO* know how it works, but my point is that it is categorically *NOT* a hologram.

A hologram isn't a 2d image that appears to be projected onto something that is otherwise invisible such as glass. It is literally a 3-dimensional image that you will perceive as 3D even when you are right in front of it.

Looking at a holographic plate with an image in it is like looking through a window at something which is beyond it, where the size of the holographic plate is the size of the window. You get all the parallax effects with a hologram just as you would with real 3-dimensional objects.

Re:I know

[mark-t]

Actually, Kirk says "Scotty, Beam me up" in ST4, and in one episode of TOS he just said "Beam me up".

How can you tell the difference?

[WillAffleckUW]

Neither one has a chance.

Re:yang my wang

[cayenne8]

I suppose the "hologram" could come out and to get the crowd warmed up...go into a snappy rendition of :

"Everybody have fun tonight...."

"Everyone Yang Chung tonight...."

Hologram trucks a minor French invention

[Anonymous Coward]

Have a look at this web page. By the way I can't see what's "3D" in there. We don't need to care about "3D" or "hologram", the person shows up and the talk and convictions matter!

https://lafranceinsoumise.fr/operation471/

Re:Like hillary?

[aicrules]

arrests that had absolutely nothing to do with collusion or anything to do with Trump doing anything wrong. HE doesn't get to choose whether it is published or not. He wants it published. And also, you're an anonymous coward and an idiot all in one.

Re: yang my wang

[javaman235]

Lol. Made even better when Yang reveals the hologram of him is actually a product of DeepMind AI, and he was never actually campaigning, just making his point about automation replacing jobs by replacing himself!

I like Yang. Heâ(TM)s a capitalist making points about where this game with AI will end, and heâ(TM)s right.

Re:Universal basic income doesn't work

[mark-t]

Yes, holograms work.

What this guy is using, however, is not a hologram.

I've seen real holograms, and they are utterly amazing.

Re:I don't rely on bodybuilders in a giant red tru

[Mister Transistor]

Let me know how all that shit works out when there's a gas main explosion in your basement, or a plane falls out of the sky and destroys your precious over-thought out coffin.

Nah, you don't need those Chippendale's in Helmets! Nor the Gov't, all those laws are for suckers!!`!~

Oh, and I would say the Jaws of Life are a significant improvement over ancient Roman firefighting techniques.

Idiot.

Re:You mad bro?

[Mister Transistor]

No I am not insane, and yes, I love Jelly on toast.

English much?

What a coincidence!

[ChatHuant]

Andrew Yang Plans To Use a 3D Hologram For Remote Campaigning

I was just planning to use a 3D hologram for remote jeering!

TV ad campaign

[VeryFluffyBunny]

So Yang is launching a TV ad campaign, only, if you want to see it, you have to leave your home & go to a specific place at a specific time to watch it... & Yang might even be watching you watching the ad & then answer some questions on Skype/Facetime.

Yeah, I'm sure it'll catch on.

Bold..

[SuperDre]

I think he's a bold person with a very optimistic view. How he thinks he could ever be a president of the US is beyond me, but I hope he succeeds.. The biggest problem he has, is being asian.. And with the US already trying to block a lot of chinese companies (in the media) it will just make people wonder if Yang isn't a puppet for the chinese goverment (no, they don't even think about where he's actually born, he looks like one so he is one, for a lot of people).. And ofcourse I don't think a lot of democrats don't want him in the chair either..
But agian, I hope he succeeds, it would mean a completely different direction as Trump is going.

why vote

[renegade600]

why vote for someone who don't care enough to be there in person?

Re:Universal basic income doesn't work

[Zorton]

To be honest, I would rather the currency was pegged to something hard to gather. As for the antisemitic meme stuff, I didn't mention anything in that vein, you did. Try your macro somewhere else were the context makes more sense.