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New York City Orders Mandatory Measles Vaccinations in Brooklyn (providencejournal.com)
"New York City officials on Tuesday declared a public health emergency and ordered mandatory measles vaccinations" in an area where most of the state's 285 measles cases have occurred. The Washington Post reports:
New York's mandatory vaccination order in four Brooklyn zip codes is by far the toughest action to date by state or local officials, as the disease's tally grows to 465 cases in 19 states. Officials there and elsewhere have sought to bar unvaccinated children from schools and other public places but have had limited success... The mandate orders all unvaccinated people in four zip codes to receive inoculations, including children as young as 6 months. Anyone who resists faces a misdemeanor charge and could be fined up to $1,000.
Long-time Slashdot reader Major Blud shares a BBC report that under the order, "any person living in the affected areas who has not been vaccinated must be immunised within 48 hours."
Long-time Slashdot reader Major Blud shares a BBC report that under the order, "any person living in the affected areas who has not been vaccinated must be immunised within 48 hours."
Good. Their "rights" to liberty absolutely terminate when they endanger the lives of others.
Rights, which according to American philosophy predate any government and are granted by the Universe, are not something to be taken lightly.
Thomas Jefferson:
As the old saying goes: "Give me liberty, or give me death!"
Oh, and where did these measles infections come from? Third-world immigrants imported by the leftists against the will of these very people who are being targeted now? And, why are you so worried about their lack of immunity? Haven't you gotten you and yours vaccinated? Sure, some people can't be vaccinated; well, they shouldn't live in one of the most diversely populated places on Earth.
Citizens must sue the city and file for an emergency injunction!
I'm sure they'll enforce the law. If a Palestinian wants to move into a Orthodox Jew neighborhood the law will force them to rent to him. Fair housing laws are applied evenly and fairly. JK, LOL
Unless this law is passed as unconstitutional, get ready for forced government drugs by the state!
I don't care if you're for or against vaccines, no one should be forcibly pricked by the government
If the recipients have adverse side effects from the vaccines then the officials should be personally liable for any associated costs and penalties.
...is that "Isolation Camps" could be a thing again. Or that violence against anti-vaxers may eventually erupt if an epidemic should occur. We live in dangerous times.
Enforcing this order also provides a strong reason to check on illegal tenants in public housing, illegal immigrants, and homeless people in that district. It may not a purpose of the regulation, but they form a reservoir of at-risk people. It will be fascinating to see how NYC handles these people and whether they detain them or turn any immigrants over to INS.
What if you don't live in Brooklyn?
I will decide all my vaccination for me, by my self.
I choose wich vaccines I take.
Measles is not a dangerous illness.
I think that a way to fight this would be to "leak" a document to wikileaks pointing out that the autism vaccine rumor was spread by alquaeda as part of a plan to attack the population with measles.
Oh, and where did these measles infections come from? Third-world immigrants imported by the leftists against the will of these very people who are being targeted now?
We hear all the time how Republicans are the epitome of evil, how the orange man is soooo bad and all.
We *almost* had eradicated measles.
Think about that for a minute: all this hoopla about vaccinations causing autism and such could have been so much less by eliminating the very *need* to get vaccinated in the US, and enforcing vaccination on immigrants and travelers going outside the country. We could concentrate on eradicating the disease worldwide, since measles is one of the few diseases that meet the criteria of worldwide eradication.
Instead we let anyone walk into the country with no oversight *simply because* it creates problems that can be blamed on the president.
Which party is the truly evil one?
Borders around a relatively educated, fairly homogeneous population, born and raised with comparable American values about liberty and duty.
Well, over the last few decades, that's all been torn down by the globalists and Unamericans; is it surprising that we see the resurgence of both 3rd-world, medieval diseases and tyrannical "solutions"?
If you are vaccinated, shouldn't you not have to worry about getting measles? Only the un-vaccinated will be affected? Where is the problem?
Before the vaccine, measles caused an average of about 2.6 million deaths per year.
You have a very funny idea of what constitutes a dangerous disease"
It's just that.
seems to be doing a good job spreading conspiracy and fomenting chaos in the West.. flat earthers, anti-vaxers, xenophobia, etc, etc,.... Humans are really stupid.
Maybe the brooklynites want to get out?
YOU DO NOT ENDANGER OTHERS IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED. You endanger yourself; it's to train your immune system. Yes, you could carry and spread it to other people WHO ARE NOT VACCINATED.
So people who refuse get sick and die because of their own decisions. That is the way it should be. Furthermore, remove the idiot warning labels on plastic bags etc.
Get away with this and you open up the door for future corrupt politicians to force things into your body against your will. Colon cancer is a real problem in the USA, why don't they force cameras up our colons while they are at it? (yes obviously you volunteer for that under the right conditions because who wants to die of that? but it's your choice and not a 1 size fits all policy which easily can be done 10x as much just to give more money to a lobby group.)
You think they just die in their homes? No. They go to some of the most expensive healthcare facilities in the world to be treated (i.e. NYC and USA in general), and ultimately costs our health system through resource utilization and direct/indirect costs that could be spent in far better ways..
While you're busy forgetting you live in a society, please remember to avoid all roads, airports, schools, hospitals, any inventions funded by public grants, hell pretty much everything.
Just stay in a shack in the woods.
P.S.: Don't comment on this forum. It was created thanks to public funding for ARPAnet.
The average IQ of black Americans is 88, nearly a standard deviation below the average IQ of white Americans; criminality spikes around 85, and the inability to sustain a Democracy happens around 80. I'll note that the average IQ of sub-Saharan Africans is 66-to-73, which is basically mental retardation among white people.
The American solution to slavery would have been evolutionary, and bloodless: The various State governments, perhaps with the aid of the federal government, could have purchased the slaves at a premium while simultaneously outlawing future slave trade; those slaves, now owned by the state, could have been relocated or educated in a publicly defined, culturally accepted way, and either integrated into American society (perhaps in their own State out west), or shipped back to Africa (e.g., as with Liberia, which is a shithole today).
Instead, the Unamericans won the day; they decided that violent coercion was the answer, the bitter ramifications of which can be felt even today.
I wonder how many people cannot have the vaccine? How many were told by their doctors not to get it due to compromised immune systems or other health problems? How many people will die as a result? How many will have to flee their homes? Or will they just pay the $1000 fine?
I've been there. My school district told me my kid was missing a required vaccine for his grade level. My son was younger than his classmates, significantly so. Not only his doctor, but the American Academy of Pediatrics recommended he get the vaccine later when he was older. It was part of a set of 5 or 6. It HAD to be later. School bureaucrats disagreed. Thankfully I live in a state where I can oppose vaccines on philosophical grounds. My philosophical grounds involved the medical community.
Watch out. Not everyone can receive a vaccine safely. When government overrides the medical establishment....
In a dense dystopia like NYC, you can't do squat without messing up someone else, that's one of the psychological costs of that unsustainable life. You probably need tighter gun laws, restrictions on everything, as what you do impinges on others almost no matter what.
.
However, those of us who chose not to "enjoy" the "benefits" of living like rats in a cage, would prefer to keep our freedoms intact, not needing the restrictions to protect our neighbors as the big-city folk do. Small towns, with little or no anonymity, tend to eject the kinds of people who make NYC dangerous, and SF a place full of homeless, poop and needles in the public spaces. It doesn't take the cops to do this, or really any proactive action by the other citizens. It's just enough harder to make it that losers leave on their own.
.
Often one of the first comments of people who visit my place from some other country- say one in the EU, is how vast the US is, and how utterly varied from place to place. They fly into an airport 60 miles from here in a big city with the usual reprobates and nasty pollution and congestion, and an hour later they are in unspoiled nature like they've never seen at home. This is why one size fits all, and centralized government in general might be a crappy idea. Sure, there are cases where one size IS a decent fit, but mission-creep is inevitable and a function of human nature - governments always become larger and less accountable if it's possible to do - if for no other reason than to create more warm seats under a manager seeking a raise...
You continue to prove you are an absolute moron. This is a non-partisan issue but you continue to try and make it one. Quit being an intellectually bankrupt moron and if you really want to help the world be a better place, remove yourself from it. You stupid fucking hack.
Including INFANTS who are TOO YOUNG to be vaccinated and might not live to see it because of your selfish dumb ass.
Not true, if you are vaccinated, it's not 100% guaranteed that you won't get infected anyway. Vaccinations rely on herd immunity, that is, enough people are vaccinated that there's generally no exposure, thus those who have been vaccinated but are still prone to infection won't get it.
You absolutely endager others if you aren't vaccinated. Push your anti-vax crap elsewhere.
Ok I'll try even more caps
YES YOU DO ENDANGER OTHERS, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT CANNOT GET VACCINATED EVEN IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO.
You know, infants. People with various conditions making them allergic or too week to vaccine. You know, the people that are few enough to be fine if it wasn't for all the antivaxxer idiots that have started bringing back nearly extinct diseases.
Fuck you and your slippery slope shitty argument. Colon cancer doesn't endanger others, measles does.
No vaccination is 100% effective. There will always be a small percentage of people who get vaccinated but do not become fully immune. With measles I believe it's 2-3 percent, which is still tens of thousands of people.
Even if you are immune, you can still potentially carry the virus with you. Measles virus can survive outside the body for several hours and still be infectious.
And you contradict yourself within three sentences:
1) "You do not endanger others if you are not vaccinated"
2) "You could spread it to other people who are not vaccinated"
So which is it? Are you not endangering others, or can you spread it?
=Smidge=
Fine. Don't get vaccinated. But remember, even if you tell me your kid, or you, is allergic to peanuts, I'll still eat my PBJ next to you.
That heard immunity bullshit.. Tuff luck anyone who the vaccination doesn't happen to work on that then gets infected by someone who didn't get one... Life is lethal, if you allow the government to do that, you basically allow them to pick your diet and regulate your life to the smallest degree and still you will die and still accidents will happen. snakes will bite, STDs will transmit, sinus infections will turn to meningitis.. People will die...
Anyone tries to stick me with a needle without my permission will be stopped by any means necessary. How many people has measles killed that wouldn't die from the next stiff wind? How many will be killed for shooting or responding to the NAZI trying to inject someone?
You realize that this quite literally contradicts what you say literally two sentences later....
(emphasis mine) Other people who are not vaccinated are still "others"... whether you endanger yourself in the process is irrelevant.
And not all of these others even had any choice in the matter. You endanger people who could not receive a vaccination for medical reasons, and you endanger those for whom the vaccination was not 100% effective. This is not generally a problem by itself because the number of people who have a legitimate medical reason to not get a vaccination plus the number of people for whom the vaccination would not actually be effective in the event of exposure is quite small, small enough that if they were the only ones vulnerable, the danger to any of them is actually negligible.
Adding choice to be vaccinated or not changes the dynamic of this effective "herd immunity" entirely, and with every additional person that gets ill, the danger to everyone else who was vulnerable rises exponentially. In theory, it wouldn't be a problem if nobody ever contracted the illness in the first place, but as soon as one person does, the more unvaccinated or otherwise vulnerable people there are around them, the more quickly the virus will spread. The fact that it only will tend to affect these otherwise vulnerable people completely ignores the fact that not all of them had a choice in the matter, and in practice while the number of people who might choose to be unvaccinated may tend to outnumber those who did not make a choice to be vulnerable, during an outbreak, it is noteworthy that they rarely outnumber the ones who die, not surprising often owing to the same medical reasons for why they could not have received the vaccination in the first place, or why the vaccination they did receive was not effective.
And while I say the number of these people may be quite small, I only mean so statistically... in absolute terms, the number of people is still actually quite large,. so yes....you *DO* endanger others if you are not vaccinated. At the very least, you can certainly say that you endanger others if you should *choose* to not be vaccinated.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
This. Damn slashdot is on fire today. The boys are bringing out the facts. Keep it up.
Its because his generation has had the positive effect of vaccinations. People think measles is harmless because it hardly happens anymore. Thanks to vaccinations.
While you're busy forgetting the last 5000 years of history, please remember that travel is one of those things that doesn't matter so much if the state providing them has become tyrannical.
If you are not vaccinated you endanger others by increasing the risk of transference. Vaccinations aren't 100% effective, so you endanger others who have been vaccinated just by being sick and carrying it around. You also endanger those who have not been vaccinated yet, and those who can't get vaccinated.
Your facts are wrong, and you are thinking about this wrong.
Good luck identifying me.
And you can't put me in measles jail if I take a vacation in Jersey.
+5 Insightful.
I saw a few comments here suggesting it was a Jewish thing. Seemed odd, so I did a quick google search and... turns out they were right.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...
https://www.independent.co.uk/...
Looks like the outbreak is indeed centered in the city's Orthodox Jewish community. That really is odd, as the objections seem to be based on false scientific claims, not superstitious or moral objections.
I don't see anything to connect is to immigration though. The Independent suggests the outbreak strain was brought back from Israel, but by tourists who went there for a festival and returned home with the virus incubating.
1/3 of traffic deaths are alcohol-related; eliminating alcohol from existence would leave 66% of traffic deaths still occuring.
What does "alcoho-related" mean anyway? A designated-sober driver hit a wet road and drove off a cliff? You had a glass of wine with dinner an hour earlier?
Alcoholic crashes involve people falling asleep. It's weariness that is the problem (and, of course, for a small fraction of people, alcohol makes them weary).
If you analyze history, and if you study human behavior, and if you introspect about your own desires in life, and then try to form a philosophy that encapsulates this inquiry, you'll arrive at some axioms that allow for logically explaining history and predicting the future, including predicting how best to achieve certain desired characteristics in your society.
That's what the Founders of the United States did; they were part of the Enlightenment, and they were a culmination of the desire to apply philosophy to societal organization, sprinkled with a bit of acute practicality here and there.
How derivative.
CAPTCHA: Barbecue
Good. Their "rights" to liberty absolutely terminate when they endanger the lives of others.
The greater good of society has been used to justify violating bodily integrity in the past:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell
I'm more for ostracization: not allowed in public schools, government-run rec programs (swimming), Scouts, soccer/basball/hockey, etc. If they want to off themselves, then they can keep to themselves.
Forcing needles (or whatever) into people is the wrong path.
The Deep State 'loves' greater Humanity so much, it has exterminated MILLIONS of Humans since 9/11, including two million Humans in Iraq. It loves Humans Rights so much, it has targeted every secular muslim nation on the planet, so those nations can be broken and given to Saudi Arabia's wahhabi control.
Vaccinations have been weaponised by the Deep State- the flu vaccine scandal proves exactly how.
Billions of dollars are spent yearly on the flu vaccine program, with billions finding their way into the pockets of leading politicians. But here's a fact the BLIND lovers of "vaccination without thought" movements never tell you.
Every year the drug industrial complex- a FOR PROFIT entity- guesses which virus will be responsible for that year's major flu outbreaks. The guesses are frequently WRONG- but by the time this is SCIENTIFICALLY determined, it is too late.
So what does the drug industrial complex, and its sheeple worshippers, do? Tell the sheeple to take the USELESS 'vaccine' anyway. When challenged, the drug industrial worshipper scum state "it is good to get the sheeple obeying our vaccination commands even when we know the particular vaccination is utterly useless".
Of course the sheeple pay for the useless flu vaccine one way or the other (tax or direct), so the politicians who get the massive kick-backs from the drug industrial complex never want a particular year's useless flu vaccination stockpile scrapped.
If the drug industrial complex worshippers LIE about the flu vaccination, I'm afraid they'll lie about all other vaccinations, since to the worshippers, all scientific thinking has gone out of the windows, and they are no better than 'Jim Jones' followers, where vaccinations become the equivalent of poisoned orange juice, to be taken by the sheepl for their greater good.
All science is vulnerable to be subverted by malicious or stupid pressure groups. Today there is no difference between the drug industrial complex and the military industrial complex. It is all a game of power and control. Authoritarian policies to groom the sheeple in readiness for massive nuclear strikes on Iran (using the new 'small' warheads).
The original nazzis were big into this authoritarian subversion of medicine as well- using the same arguments you see here getting the same 5 ratings that the obscene anti-Assange posts gained earlier.
Tony Blair is a massive force behind BLIND unthinking vaccination of the sheeple population, but never had his kids vaccinated.
Vaccination is a useful tool of medicine under LIMITED circumstances. When it goes wrong, tens of millions die and hundreds of millions have their lives ruined- just ask any victim of the OPV that was rolled out across Africa causing 'AIDS' (making vaccines from pigs, monkeys or apes is insanely dangerous, but the OPV used in Africa broke said protocols- and the drug industrial complex has spent billions trying to cover this up ever since). If you fall for the lies claiming to 'disprove' the OPV cause of AIDS, ask yourself about Thatcher's gift of mad cow disease to the Human population, killing an old person of your aquaintance TODAY with the incredible explosion of brain malfunctions experienced by people over 65 in every nation where people ate Thatcher's infected beef.
Vaccinations have their place, but that place is never where the FOR PROFIT drug industrial complex sez it is today.
And the drug industrial complex worshippers ranting on this thread will STILL tell you sheeple to take your USELESS flu shot to groom you to do whatever they say whenever they say it.
Moooooooooooo!
Everyone who either has a copy of your childhood vaccination records or knows where to go to find them (and can reasonably expect a copy still exists, can get one on a timely basis, etc.), raise your hand. For the rest of us, are the choices to accept a needle in the arm right now, or be branded a criminal and fork over $1k (and how does the latter accomplish anything useful other than to help subsidize the campaign)?
I understand people have strong feelings about this subject, but try to envision how you would feel about this jackbooted of an enforcement mechanism over something you don't feel as strongly about, or even oppose. I fear we may ultimately regret setting this precedent.
Already happened... According to Harvard researchers, children who live in high-fluoride areas have significantly lower IQ than those in low fluoride areas. And yet, our glorious governments have been purposely adding fluoride to the tap water! We are being systematically dumbed down, for years now. No wonder today's people are dumber than generations gone past.
Yes, marginal groups inside of Orthodox Jewish community tend to live among other members of the community. It's funny how these communities haven't build their temples right next to churches in the most conservative areas by now.
Not sure where you are getting your statistics from. But deaths from measles was not a problem long before the vaccine was release.
See this chart: https://www.google.com/search?q=death+from+measles+chart&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=jWTO5uaeRGzgcM%253A%252CcESsg9esEGsaAM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTCkbz1lS7T7glomXkOrVDh9hHKcg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA16rQ1M3hAhUD7qwKHU7hDQwQ9QEwEHoECAkQBg#imgrc=xnzb6E3ZoMPxjM:&vet=1
As you can see death from measles was flat lined long before the vaccine was released.
If only everyone would educate themselves or at least do some basic research before spreading misinformation.
Impaired driving kills a lot of people. Over the last decade, chemical-impaired driving deaths have changed little, but the ratio of chemicals involved has changed.
Cannabis, which is becoming far more socially acceptable than it used to be, is replacing alcohol as a primary factor of impaired-driving crashes. The last traffic safety conference I attended had a break-out session on impairments, and cannabis is now involved in MORE crashes now than alcohol.
Really? Seriously? I'd like to see some backup on that.
To be fair, the racist poster was trying to say that an average person scores normal, but the average black person scores less.
But even if it was true (it's not) the problem with IQ tests is they favor the educated, they aren't as good at measuring intelligence s they claim. And if you take the OPs results and overlay a graph showing quality and coverage of education you'll see THAT is what correlates strongly with IQ, not race.
Lol... if cannabis is being cited, itâ(TM)s only because the car was going 4 MPH and hit by another car for being a little too spacey.
A government entity is going to require people to undergo forced medical treatment and Slashdot is cheering?
Everybody is astonished that the Nazis managed to get an entire country full of intelligent and sane people to participate in atrocities. This is a perfect example of how that works.
Yes, infants. Think of the children.
Both of the NICU / PICU units I have used had signs on the door that you weren't allowed in if you HAD BEEN VACCINATED within the last three weeks because the Pertussis vaccine, and the measles vaccine (depending on manufacturer) shed for several weeks.
I'm not sure that being anti-vax correlates especially well with trump supporters, or do you have some information to share on that ?
Nullius in verba
There is an enormous amount of research that backs up the claims, and the remarks of the "racist" poster are completely non-controversial among mainstream researchers of intelligence.
Secondly, IQ tests are provide increasingly better predictions for life outcomes the lower the score is. This is natural, because a person who is very intelligent has a lot more choices in life, including the choice to live as a childless hermit because he realizes that none of this matters anyway; in contrast, dumber people have fewer choices, and thus their outcomes are easier to predict.
In any case, you are confusing causation and correlation; you want it to be true that the more equality there is in education, the more equality there will be in IQ scores, but 50 years of actively trying to bring about such equality hasn't succeeded.
What you've really pointed out is the conclusion of the The Bell Curve, which is that disparities between groups disappear when you normalize for IQ; that is to say, IQ is the deciding factor for many life outcomes. However, the average IQ for one ethnicity does not seem to the be same as the average IQ for another ethnicity, which is why there are differences in outcome between group averages—it has nothing to do with "structural" racism, and cannot be fixed politically or culturally.
It is the case that the higher the IQ, the better the education tends to be; this does not mean that more education creates a higher IQ. Putting your child on the basketball team will not make him taller.
>"and ultimately costs our health system through resource utilization and direct/indirect costs that could be spent in far better ways.."
I will preface by saying I think it is crazy to not get vaccinations. And I certainly support developing them, making them available, and strongly encouraging their use through education. But your logic can easily lead to government control (banning or compulsory action) over just about anything- motorcycle driving, eating sugar, drinking alcohol, walking alone at night, having children, construction work, swimming, bicycling, having unprotected sex, using a mobile phone when not seated, most competitive sports, obsessively playing video games, using power tools, etc.
Everything we do has some amount of risk- and taking some risks is what makes live worth living. We can't have a free society if the argument that anything people do affects "other people" due to healthcare "direct and indirect costs" prevails. It is a very dangerous path- it can put too much power in the hands of not only government, but also private insurance companies.
In other words, he's just a complete idiot
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Forced-vax nazis bring out the iron boot, force people to undergo controversial medical procedures against their will
You're a fucking moron.
I don't respond to AC's.
Thats a pretty wrong assumptive viewpoint, most anti-vaxxers are Lib-tards following Oprahs commands, the small orthodox communities,
and those from impoverished countries that have no access to med care.
Nice try trying to pin it on Republicans, and by nice I mean utter failure.
Instead we let anyone walk into the country with no oversight *simply because* it creates problems that can be blamed on the president.
You're an idiot.
I don't respond to AC's.
Not to mention that while carrying/infected they exposed vulnerable populations like infants and the immune-compromised...
So no, anti vax doesn't just hurt those who are anti vax, it hurts those that can not be vaxed for all reasons, not just ideological.
In most of your examples, if you accidentally hurt someone else, you will be held responsible. It sounds fair enough that if you infect someone with a perfectly preventable disease you should be equally held responsible.
non partisan? are you joking? it's become one of the most politicized areas of science today, second only to climatology.
Do you have any suggestions on proving *specific* people as responsible for an outbreak of a preventable disease?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
According to this CDC publication, 7575 deaths occurred in the US due to measles out of 469,924 cases.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm
However, more like everyone was infected. Quoting
this CDC report.
| Before measles vaccine was licensed in 1963, an average of 400,000 measles cases were reported each year in the United States (8). However, because virtually all children acquired measles, the number of cases probably approached 3.5 million per year (i.e., an entire birth cohort).
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr4708.pdf
According to the same publication, from 1958 to 1962, and average of 432 people died from measles. Considering the entire birth cohort, it is a death rate around 1 per thousand people. Around the same as the risk of accidental drowning, and less than half of the risk of dying as occupant of a motor vehicle.
https://lifehacker.com/here-are-your-odds-of-dying-from-the-most-popular-cause-912993910
IIUC this is hardly a threat to public health, even before vaccines were available.
Let the government inject you and your kids with whatever they call necessary. You have no right to say no. Religious or cultural beliefs? Who cares about those!
How do they identify unvaccinated people? It is quite easy to produce a fake medical certificate. Who will search if the doctor that signed it exists, and if it does, if he/she really signed that paper?
Everyone loves anti-vaxxers now. Weird. I wonder what changed?
The Founding Fathers made a slave count as 2/3 a person when counting a population for representation in government; this was done because they wanted to diminish the influence of slaveholding states, the idea being that slavery was a problem that should be dealt with by future generations; indeed, future generations of white people ended slavery in their own countries and then around the world (thus making white people not only the last people to enter the modern slavetrade, but also the most humane slaveholders, and also the people of the Earth who eventually ended the practice).
Anyway, a man in the U.S. is only allowed to vote because he subjects himself to the military draft (if he doesn't submit, then his name is referred for investigation to the DOJ, which may prosecute him for a felony with extremely steep penalties; a felony conviction would terminate the right to vote); in contrast, women get to vote because.... because... they've got a vagina.
Interestingly, men in general also only recently got the right to vote; women are not special in this regard. And, nearly as soon as women got the right to vote in the U.S., there was instituted by law the Prohibition of Alcohol, which saw the rise of organized crime and extreme violence. There was also the rise of socialism, and Europe has seen the dissolution of its borders since women have come to hold political power. Governmental debts have skyrocketed, and men have become despondent and feckless. The descendants of former slaves have turned various localities into lawless warzones, and even now are clamoring for ever more State resources to be lavished upon them in the form of "reparations' and the like.
I don't know. Maybe the Founding Fathers knew what was what.
Oprah isn't anti-vaxx, and neither is that goop quack Gwynneth Paltrow. Your guy Alex Jones, on the other hand...
But even if it was true (it's not)
Yes, it is.
the problem with IQ tests is they favor the educated
No, they don't. The vast majority of the problems avoid unnecessary language and instead rely on visuals. You could have made this argument for older SAT or similar tests where a question might assume a person can read and write English, knows what a horse is and what it's used for, etc. The standard IQ test is by far the best tool we have for measuring general intelligence and it is very fair.
Today is the measles vaccine, tomorrow is Mr.Mengele trying out his concoctions on your kids. The State should not have a right to force to you ingest/inject anything into your body.
How can we be ok with abortions but force-vax people? Aren't those two actions contradictory? Please eat your PBJ.
That's all this is.
If you think that the science is settled on vaccines, wow. Just wow. Most people just watch the mainstream media where all they do is show measles scare after measles scare and repeat the mantra "vaccines are safe" ad nauseam. Ever read the research papers on vaccine safety with regards to what has actually been studied? In short, it's pathetic. There's never been any research to compare the health and long term safety of any vaccines beyond a small amount of time and vaccines are never studied versus an unvaccinated populace. Take the MMR study for example. They called people that had every vaccination in the book except for the MMR vaccine and called that population "unvaccinated" and confused the hell out of everyone. And comparing a population of people with every vaccine against a population that had every vaccine except the MMR doesn't prove anything. It's not science, unless like the tobacco companies were proving that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer science.
That's like comparing someone that had 10 whiskeys and one shot of tequila to someone that had 10 shots of whiskey with no extra shot of tequila.
But I guess if you say "safe and effective" a million times, everyone's going to think Jesus is dispensing vaccines. The answer is, there's no unbiased safety commission on vaccines and frankly we don't know the real safety of vaccines.....yet. All the research by the drug companies (for the drug companies) is steaming horse poopie, and most people are too ignorant to read endless research papers (it's not fun) to know what to believe. I've researched for a few years now casually and I can say that it's a complicated issue, but this I know -- we need a suitable agency beyond the revolving door of CDC and Pharma. Why do people believe that drug companies are so evil yet vaccines
There's NO studies against unvaccinated people. That's the gold standard of research people. Why the hell can't we simply get that so we can tell everyone they really are safe and effective.
Alex Jones encourages kids to take their vaccines to improve their career prospects in tech. He admits that vaccines cause autism, but he's not autismphobic, in fact he's an autism ally who encourages the usage of vaccines due to its high chance of improving engineering skills.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/812440-marijuana-impaired-driving-report-to-congress.pdf
https://aaafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/PrevalenceOfMarijuanaInvolvement.pdf
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/references
So, what should happen to someone who gets infected (because they can't be vaccinated) and spreads the infection to someone else? Are they responsible? It's their choice to go out in public. So, if they can be infected and spread to someone else, their choice to go out in public makes them responsible for spreading the disease.
Have you heard of Typhoid Mary?
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Is it my responsibility to prevent your illness if you're susceptible? It's not my responsibility to make you wear a seatbelt or helmet. If you choose not to use those safety measures, that's on you. If you choose to go out in public with a compromised immune system, that's on you. I shouldn't be forced to vaccinate for your safety. I and all of my family are vaccinated, by the way.
"If we regulate vaccines, we'll lose all our freedoms and become just like North Korea."
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
No, you endanger yourself if you're immunocompromised and go out in public.
By the way, "people who could not receive a vaccination for medical reasons" includes every single child under the age of 12 months. Anti-vaxxers hate babies.
We're trying to live in a society here. If you don't want to take part then please find a different planet to live on.
You do not endanger people who ARE vaccinated. You put yourself at risk.
Other people who ALSO put themselves at risk are just as likely to catch germs from anybody including people who are vaccinated. You are no more to blame for their infection than they are THEMSELVES for not being vaccinated. It's their own dam fault if they get sick (generally speaking.) Not yours... unless you get sick and purposely go around coughing on everybody.
No, you are not endangering others by spreading something that gets around ANYWAY, immune people spread it around while their body is killing it; besides all the other vectors. It's a reduction of numbers game which is tough to verify given how you only get stats from sick people who were not immune; exposure rates I bet are unsubstantiated... you won't have much data on exposure. Not washing your hands and simple measures do far more good (there are viruses we don't have shots for.)
Actually, governments do round off tiny % exceptions on things and so do I. People die of unfortunate stuff; that is life. You can't save everybody no matter how extreme dystopia you create. That is reality.
NOTE: Some people can't get a vaccination. they are unlucky... like everybody was before whatever new discovery. Also, some people are harmed by some vaccinations for various reasons and governments knowingly approve with acceptable complication rates. Also unlucky people. Obviously you have to balance the actual pro/cons but you are allowing politicians make this decision for everybody with a poor track record and again, this is always going to be a tiny % who are screwed either way. But one is natural causes and the other has potential for abuse which could amount to more harmed people in the end. What you PUT IN YOUR BODY should be your gamble.
So all boys who are uncircumcised should be criminals too? You can find some bad looking stats on health issues for that... sway a local politician...
I know somebody who had a really bad reaction to a common immunization shot; far worse than if he simply caught the illness. unlucky. fortunately for him he asked specifically NOT to get it and his lawyer got him a nice retirement for the malpractice. HIS gamble and now he suffers (he'd trade the $ without hesitation.) Yes, like I said a tiny % is unlucky. The difference between either position is going to be a tiny % too... what and who decides the thresholds?
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Moooooooooooooooo!
contradictions are not always the case if you dig deeper. I wasn't being specific enough but also was trying to be more provocative to get people going. so troll isn't an unfair mod.
You can't get great data on exposure rates because you measure sick people who are not immune who obviously greatly reduce in numbers because vaccinations are extremely effective. Theory says there is less exposure. Try proving that. The data is on how effective the vaccination is; not exposure.
You are not responsible for spreading it unless you purposely or carelessly spread germs. Immune or not. The people who do not get vaccinated are to blame only for themselves. Being 1 of many natural exposure vectors doesn't prove anything unless do some action with 100% effective transfer rate. Yes, intent matters... and washing your hands is a big deal... I bet you proper hygiene does far more good than mandatory vaccinations. (good luck legislating that; even if you can enforce it people would revolt.)
Technically yes, and I wouldn't force you to prove some rounding error just to make the point that it does some good. The tiny % that suffer from shots etc. they are the price the government accepts when they set the threshold of legally approving of new medicine... who sets the threshold and what should it be? pro/con of tiny % are what this is all about. Should we make expanding gov power decisions over such tiny numbers of people (especially when tons more people die of things we don't touch politically... some which we need to.)
The PROBLEM here is that local politicians are deciding both those things and FORCING something in your body without your consent. Forced circumcision? similar political situation, less severe results but already has been a big issue for a long time. It's an example of where these things have actually gone.
FYI, I get vaccinated; no sympathy for those who do not. The rest are unlucky. that is life; not fair. Doesn't mean they get sick and die either--- humans survived without tech just fine... actually, those who didn't survive to reproduction is why we are here today overpopulating the planet. (yes, i did just troll there...)
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Here is my 2 cents sense researching vaccines about 2 yrs ago. I was for vaccines up until I started seeing what is really happening. 1. Vaccination is not the same as immunization. ----Just because you get a vaccination doesn't mean you have an immunity to the virus like people believe. There is a failure rate. If you get the measles and get over it, your more likely to have a lifetime immunity than if you receive a vaccination. ---There is such a thing called vaccine shedding where people shed the actual virus. I question if these cases are being caused by the vaccine. As far I know we don't know. 2. Legally if you get a vaccine and are injured, the pharma aren't held liable. The Taxpayer is who pays after the individual goes through a quiet "special court" process. --In the news lately I've noticed a bunch of pushing "fear" about the measles to push bills through. This eliminates the right you have over your own body. If this continues soon they'll legalize the government to kill/rape you (really pharma) and you legally won't be able to do anything. 3. Some of the ingredients found in vaccines are: Thimerosal (mercury funny how they renamed mercury) Aluminum Formaldehyde last I checked none of those are safe. Many doctors / people want to see more studies to the vaccines to prove they're not doing other things to people like breast cancer or other cancers, autoimmune diseases, etc... What good is curing one virus if your increasing your risk of other disorders / diseases? End result is more profits for big pharma. Each vaccine is worth about $1B a year with no worry of being sued. Lastly vaccines are not safe and that was determined in 1985 when the government decided to protect vaccine manufactures. Anyone who says differently is lying or ignorant as to what a medical procedure is. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300aa-22)
Alternative: you pay more $ if you catch what you weren't vaccinated for. simple. no police state required.
So because they statistically raise healthcare costs, you want to force things into their bodies?
Criminalize sugar? Make Smoking illegal? Alcohol surely kills more than vaccinated people...
YES, a lot of people stay home when SICK or take precautions spreading it to other people. Maybe they end up in the hospital, maybe not. I had measles as a kid before I could get the shot (which I still got later.) I was lucky; costs to the system was negligible too. You do realize germs spread anyway right? immune people still spread germs. You could be immune and be fighting the thing off for weeks without knowing it.
DO you stay home or wear a mask or wash your hands when you get the flu? the flu is a top killer of old people and those shots suck (they only predict a few each year to protect against) so you do more by preventative measures than the shot does. Do you do any of that? How would you like a ticket for failing to wear a mask or wash your hands?
Not getting vaccinated is your own fault and giving to other people who do not get vaccinated is their fault (shared blame if they are careless or intentional)
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China destroyed Venezuela.
So you don't wash your hands etc or avoid visiting an infant when sick???
It's my right to do what you think is selfish. Voting Republican does more harm to others and that is still a right; some might say the other brand name/tribe is worse...
Children die. that sucks and that is natural. for all of human existence and it's also what evolved humanity. bad luck happens. Children are humans too, with equal rights and equal luck.
Think of the children is often a poor excuse always abused and so many are completely hypocrites about it too.
not sorry for trolling you. You also just assume that vaccinated people can't spread illness, pets, etc. They can. Also, vaccinations do not cover all versions of a virus but they do make people more careless. I've had chicken pox 2 times and the docs thought it was a error in paperwork (not believing me either) until a decade later when they learned there were 3 versions of it. The 2nd time I was careless because I thought I was immune.
If you care about children, take more precautions and maybe back up words with action on other topics instead of righteously patting yourself on the back just to feel good. Not likely actually doing something; righteousness is just emotional masturbation. like a lot of social media too.
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"if I post a crazy strawman, I win the argument"
It makes perfect sense though that if *by your own choice* you have an increased risk you pay for that with your own money and not with society’s money.
Colon cancer is a real problem in the USA, why don't they force cameras up our colons while they are at it?
Colon cancer is not infectious. Disinformation is a real problem too, and yet you're allowed to spread this bullshit.
not a 1 size fits all policy
For future reference, what's the diameter of your rectum?
It is your responsibility, because you're part of society, the same society that says you cannot be murdered, raped, burgled or thrown off a cliff to drown. If you know there are people who cannot be vaccinated, and you do, then you must get vaccinated, unless you are one of those who cannot. If you do not want to do that, then let me know if you live near a cliff.
> "If we regulate vaccines, we'll lose all our freedoms and become just like North Korea."
This is not regulation of vaccines. If we compel people, at gunpoint (which ultimately what laws are), do to things they don't want, that don't directly harm other people (but might harm other people who choose not to do things they don't want to do), we have certainly lost a freedom and entered a mindset that the government can compel anything because "scary".
Up next- somehow speech is violence. You can say things that upset people and they might do stupid things that harm themselves or others. So get the government to compel people what to say or ban what they can't say.
We have to decide to follow the word and spirit of the Constitution and generally leave people alone and constrain government. That is the primary value this country was founded on, it is what made us strong and successful and it is eroding away into a giant, expensive, safety-focused, oppressive, nanny-based "safe zone."
So it REALLY doesn't matter one shit what you do, call them any fucking slur you like, YOU ARE NOT HARMING YOUR CHANCE OF CHANGING THEIR MINDS. Their minds are already set in stone, let alone concrete. They WILL NOT change their mind. Until THEY get measles or whatever and in agony. And if that happens, they won't give a flying fuck if you called them a moron or anything under the sun, they will not merely beg, but DEMAND you help them.
And if they survive, they might then change their mind.
Except it's not really a strawman. Others here have already compared it to Nazi Germany.
I will decide all my vaccination for me, by my self.
At the time when this is being decided you haven't even made the decision not to shit your own diaper yet. You ain't deciding shit for yourself, you're only deciding if you're putting your children's lives on the line.
NO, that is wrong.
In the US about 400 to 500 people died each year. How can you get the 3.6 millions deaths per year from that.?
"In a brief history of the disease, the Centers for Disease Control writes that between 1953 and 1963, when the measles vaccine became available, “nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age.” Yearly, “400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 4,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.” "
Source : https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/history-of-measles-mortality-maps-from-a-time-before-vaccines.html
Some people's purpose in life is to serve as an example to others.
The suffering sick person in the family may be the best argument to get the rest vaccinated. Happens all the time; somebody gets cancer, friends and family or fans of the celebrity go get themselves screened. Maybe you could offset their medical bills slightly for doing such things... but I don't see any reason why preventable illnesses shouldn't COST you more because you made yourself more of a burden... The argument is used to get smokers in all kinds of ways (most often illegitimate but popular because it's viewed by the majority as a lower class minority group/tribe.)
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I was not vaccinated as a child, and got all the normal child diseases, and I survived.
I got all the diseases in our family and neighbours "disease parties" where all the sick children infected us other children. No one died from any of those diseases as far as I know.
Maybe I you have a bad immunesystem, or are undernurished as a child, then you might die.
Diseases strenghten the human race, byt weeding out the weak.
You should read up on the slippery-slope logical fallacy.
I see, refusing a vaccination causes no harm to others.
Would you agree that being an uninsured driver also causes no direct harm to others? It's a victimless crime, right?
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
"could be fined up to $1,000."
People will be getting bills for more than that in the first 10 seconds that they're checked into the hospital for the measles. Make anyone who is determined to be the unvaccinated disease vector on the hook for the medical bills for everyone they infect. The only time people listen is when you threaten their wallets.
>> that don't directly harm other people
> I see, refusing a vaccination causes no harm to others.
It causes no DIRECT harm to others.
>"Would you agree that being an uninsured driver also causes no direct harm to others?"
I do agree. It causes no direct harm to other drivers. Both have the potential to indirectly cause harm, given the right circumstances.
>"It's a victimless crime, right?"
Not having car insurance? Correct. IF there were an accident and IF it were their fault and IF they had no insurance and IF they had no resources to pay for the damages, then there would be an "unwhole" party.
>"You should read up on the slippery-slope logical fallacy."
The "slippery slope" is a very real phenomenon, it is not always a fallacy.
I see, the person without insurance has deprived another of property and therefore of personal liberty, but this is fine because freedom.
This reminds me of that slogan in Orwell's 1984: "Freedom is slavery!"
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
he objection to one size fits all is what resonates with me. I fully understand that things are vastly different in NYC vs my rural nature preserve. I can swing my arms as much as I want with no danger of breaking someone's nose, and if I want to set off a few lbs of dynamite on my back 40, no one cares unless I fail to invite them to see the show.
That's great and all, but you're still going to get your fucking shots.
Smallpox was finally eradicated by tracking every last infection on the planet and inoculating a remote village in Somalia to prevent spreading the disease from the last victim. Yes, Somalia, that bastion of libertarian freedom.
You will be inoculated. We're not going to allow your little rural dystopia to act as a reservoir for an infectious disease that can later break out and wreak havoc in a higher density population. And we might prevent your rural dystopia from being completely depopulated along the way.
Read the insert. Less than 70% effectiveness.
But slashdot seems to be full of cheerleading idiots nowadays who can't think for themselves or even know the issues.
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Oh no! Godwin-dammit!
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