Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Movie Players for Linux?
mrlament wishes to know about the
following:
"I've been a long time Linux user, but I
keep finding myself having to switch over
to my Windows box in order to view videos.
I've tried xanim, and have yet had it
properly handle a single video,
aside from the real player, I cannot seem
to find a single decent player for
MOVs, AVIs and MPGs. Does anyone know
of any, or are there just not any out
there?" I posted this up here because
I get a lot of this from people outside
of Ask Slashdot, so I figure there are people
out there that want this information. Hit the
link for more.
In all honesty, I don't think
Linux is going to get very far beyond
Indeo Video 3.2 support since IV4, IV5
and the I263 codecs are VERY
proprietary and (so I've heard) it costs
a lot of money just to become a developer.
I would love support for AVIs under more than just Windows,
but it's been a couple of years since
IV4 was released and I just haven't
seen support for it materialize
anywhere else (if I'm wrong, someone
PLEASE correct me!).
I'm surprised that there ISN'T more visible QuickTime support, but that's Apple's bailiwick. Intel and Apple have also begun to crosslicense technology as Apple now gets Intel Video 4.4 support for QuickTime. Of course as far as I can tell, QuickTime is still only available for Macs, 95/98 and NT.
MPG video files are more crossplatform than any of the others. I expect this format is supported under more platforms than any other, however I don't have any information on a LINUX player. If someone has a helpful link, please post it.
As an aside, MainConcept has one of the best movie players I have seen and supports a wide range of formats. It's been the mainstay viewer under OS/2 for a while, and it looks like they've taken an interest in Linux as they are attempting to port their Video Editor over.
Update: 02/13 01:16 by C : I've started a discussion, and someone has already answered my question regarding IV4 and IV5 on Linux. It appears that the only people who can offer support on these codecs is Intel themselves. With their support of Linux in recent times, who knows, this might actually happen. A cordial letter writing campaign might be in order to see if we can get them to port these codecs sooner rather than later?
I'm surprised that there ISN'T more visible QuickTime support, but that's Apple's bailiwick. Intel and Apple have also begun to crosslicense technology as Apple now gets Intel Video 4.4 support for QuickTime. Of course as far as I can tell, QuickTime is still only available for Macs, 95/98 and NT.
MPG video files are more crossplatform than any of the others. I expect this format is supported under more platforms than any other, however I don't have any information on a LINUX player. If someone has a helpful link, please post it.
As an aside, MainConcept has one of the best movie players I have seen and supports a wide range of formats. It's been the mainstay viewer under OS/2 for a while, and it looks like they've taken an interest in Linux as they are attempting to port their Video Editor over.
Update: 02/13 01:16 by C : I've started a discussion, and someone has already answered my question regarding IV4 and IV5 on Linux. It appears that the only people who can offer support on these codecs is Intel themselves. With their support of Linux in recent times, who knows, this might actually happen. A cordial letter writing campaign might be in order to see if we can get them to port these codecs sooner rather than later?
Check out www.mpegtv.com, they have a linux version which runs a lot better than Xanim for mpegs.
(Just watched Shakespeare in Love & Ronin with it...)
Well, I've noticed that the Xanim that comes with RedHat is broken when it comes to Indeo and QuickTime support. For me to get them to work, I had to download the latest source to xanim, along with the iv and mov object files (Licensing terms keeps the author from distributing them as source files) then I had to edit the make file and compile my own. I've upgraded it by hand ever since.
As for MPEG, there is a proprietary, Binary-only player called mtvp (MPEG TV player for Linux). It's not as nice as xanim, but it does play MPEG files smoothly on my P233 with nothing special.
Both can be found if you search FreshMeat.
Isn't Quicktime 4.0 supposed to have a java component?
xanim works perfectly fine for the AVI's I have (porn, Spirit of Christmas, southpark clips) and the MOV's (Troops, the exploding Whale, etc.) I had to download the contrib version from Redhat's site because the other one didn't come with support due to licensing issues but who cares?
Xanim DOES support the AVI and MOV formats though you _must_ compile it yourself to get this support. Instructions at http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/
Quoting from that page
Welcome to 1999. Work is still grinding me down(as usual), but I'm slowing getting 27071 ready to be released. I've also signed an NDA with
Intel for their Indeo 4.x and Indeo 5.0 video codecs. 27071 will have the necessary hooks in place for when these modules get ported and
released.
A coworker wanted to show me some simulation work which he had been working on.
He set it up as a streaming video (his words). It was a *.asx file. Apparently he had converted an avi file to this format.
I was unable to view or save it to the HD for more exploration. Any tips?
I KNOW linux is the best OS, but until it supports :)...
DVD, some kind of direct X (so we can get some mass market games) and some USB support I have NO CHOICE but to use win98 as my PC's main OS... (Of course I use a VNC console to my Sparc and SGI, so at least I use unix daily
-D. Alphaeus
Because Gnu/Linux is was designed to be a server and developmentsystem it is unable to provide the same complete multimedia expierience that Windows can. For instance sound suport is shaky at best. OSS is emerging but it's not there yet. Most new sound cards go unsupported for quite awhile. Also 3D in Gnu/Linux is lacking. Most vendors don't care about Gnu/Linux, and don't want the source code to their drivers publicly available, so there will never be open 3D for Gnu/Linux.
Best bet is to use Gnu/Linux for what it was designed for. A server and development platform.
I've run Xanim on my Linux box for quite a while now. If you compile it yourself and include the decompressor object files (not included in the normal package due to propriety) it works quite well. I've had it play better than the default windows player, and it's played AVI's and other things that the winplayer just couldn't handle. I guess you'd have to go out and get some other viewer for winblows :P
Martin Held
heldm@blah.ucs.orst.edu
----------------------------------
The way to love anything is to realize that it might be lost.
(kill the blah bit for e-mail)
I find mpeg_play does a better job on mpegs than xanim.
According to the xanim home page at http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/home.html, the author has signed NDAs with Intel for V4 and V5, and it appears that support for these codecs is coming. Personally, I'd love to see support for these. In playing around with my Matrox Marvel under Windoze, I've found that the Index 4 codec produces excellent quality and small size. It would be nice to see a Sorensen codec for linux too.
--JT
D. Alphaeus wrote:
> I KNOW linux is the best OS, but until it supports DVD, some kind of
> direct X (so we can get some mass market games)
The lack of games for Linux has nothing to do with the lack
of DirectX type functionality; X11/DGA already provides that.
It's simply a matter of
a) not pissing off Microsoft, and
b) the fact that most Linux users have Windows anyhow, so
the developers aren't losing market share by not supporting it.
Until recently, I didn't even know there WAS an AVI v4 or V5. The only extensions to AVI I knew of were for a company that was marketing low-res videos on CD (About a year ago when DVD was starting to gain momentum). I think the name of the company was "Serius Publishing" or something like that. I can't remember exactly.
My roommate's computer is a Win95 box and there isn't anything that his computer can play that mine can't (I've tried).
The IV4 codec is not completely bound to the Wintel architechture. Intel recently released the Indeo Video 4.4 codec for the Macintosh. It works with Quicktime 3.0. A link to download this is available at Intel site
Check this out! The download link is bad, though. big surprise.
I don't have XForms installed on my Linux box, and I've only got mtvp put in my personal ~/bin directory. It's actually not a problem since xanim doesn't have a file browser either. I just type "mtvp relic.mpeg" or "xanim +Sr +f trip.avi" and watch the movie.
Look unde microsoft... they actually have a linux port of their netshow 2.0 streaming video player.... I think you will find it under media player.... Also they have said that they will be porting the entire media player to linux in the future.. this is strange but take a look at their web page...
I read somewhere that Microsoft have produced media player for Linux. Its probably shite, but I thought I'd post it anyway. Haven't used it myself.
Are you high? Linux sound support is better than it is in Windows. I've never had a buggy sound driver in Linux crash the system or cause it to not boot like I've had happen uncountable times in Windows boxen, especially with older versions of DirectX. Most "new" soundcards for Windows are based on older, established chipsets or follow some kind of standard that Linux does support.
3D in Linux is also not "lacking". Just because we don't have a overbloated, overhyped junk pile like DirectX does not mean we're lacking. We have OpenGL support, and we have other 3D engines available for Linux (Crystal Space, and others) that can be used to create 3D games. Since most everything in Linux goes through the X server, and since XFree86 supports (last count) 555 cards (Uncounted flavors) you can't say that we don't have all the tools for creating some killer 3D games.
Finally, as far as 3D video card support, yes, I will admit that it isn't what it could be, but with all the 3D cards that come and go, maybe we don't want it to be that way. Currently we have 3DFx support and soon we will also have Creative Labs 3D cards supported in Linux. I suspect that other companies are starting to hire Linux contract programmers to work under NDS (And unannounced) on cards for them.
Oh well.. The download link for the Netshow beta
gives a 404 Not Found....
Which was not surprising at all.
Who are you, some Microsoft cronie?
Hello kind sir. Do all of the fine reps. from MS work on Saturday?
;)
Seriously. This is a little misleading.
To say that sound support is shaky at best is vague. I have had my
$10 Yamaho based PnP sound card working for a while now. It works
It works flawlessly with games/avi's/mp3's etc. I'm not sure about the
high end stuff but I think that the sound-blaster stuff is pretty well
supported.
With modules companies don't have to release their source.
Don't know what you mean there.
I'm not up on the 3D stuff in Linux. Seems like Mesa is coming
along nicely though.
I didn't realize linux was designed to be a server/development
platform. I thought a bunch of people just kept adding (and have
continued adding and adding and adding) what they thought
was most important. I guess you learn something new everyday.
What are KDE and GNOME designed for?
I thought I just read a few months ago (and wasn't it on /. ?) that Apple was planning a port of QuickTime to Linux...
But in the interim, xanim works perfectly fine for
me.
Just how BIG are these mpegs?? :)
Would everyone please get off their Linux high-horse and look at the kernel. Linux sound and 3d are fairly bad supported. I should know since my sound card (SB Live) and my 3d card (nVidia TNT) are unsupported. I know what you're going to say.. "why didn't you buy supported stuff". Because I don't want old hardware. I want to use the newest stuff. If I wanted to use obsolete hardware I would not have upgraded. Of course, if hardware support was there (and a "standard" API for accessing it all such as OSS) everything would be fine.
It's not really the compiling, it's the linking that you _must_ do yourself. That is, if you want to include the codecs for the proprietary formats. Of course in practice this means you'll have to compile the xanim source with the right options.
The codecs themselves are only included as object files... you're not getting the source so you don't have to compile that.
Direct X is one of the major reasons of 98's instability.
The truth of the matter is windows can't actually achieve the performance levels direct X gives you.
To do it, they allow games to directly address the hardware.
Result: bad driver = blue screen
I know someone who works at the tech central of a cellullar phone company, and he says it is even prohibited to users of their systems to upgrade their direct/x.
That's why I won't download Direct/X 6.1. Each new version gives you more crashes.
Also, NT actually does offer decent gaming performance, if you use the (prohibited by m$) direct/x 5 that comes with NT5. It doesn't allow games to get nasty with your video hardware, resulting in stable gameplay.
Really, QuickTime is a file format and API.
On MacOS and Windows, QuickTime includes a bunch of codecs, but you don't have to have them. (Of course, you have to have a codec for the data you want to view). For example, you can store uncompressed data in QuickTime files. You can also write your own codecs and plug them in.
I use VNC too. On a P-Pro 200 or better, the performance is just fine for anything except animation, and the viewer fits on a floppy disk (~170K file). I carry the floppy with me when I'm out of town and I can access my Linux machine via PPP from anyone's PC without having to install anything on their machine. (Sorry, off-topic, I know.)
What about encoders? I haven't been able to find an encoder for even the well documented .fl[ci] let alone the much more complicated but still well-documented and open MPEG-1. Are there projects working on an mpeg encoder? Would I be re-inventing the wheel if I wrote an fli encoder?
questions, questions, questions.
Of course you can make any Turing-complete system multimedia capable in some fashion, but if no one is doing it, whats the point?
The posters point is valid. Linux is not a mutlimedia OS.
Support for all these NVIDIA chipsets is
included in XFree86-3.3.3.1. This server was
partly implemented by NVIDIA and now follows the
Open Source guidelines. copied from Q.F12- of
the FAQ on www.xfree86.org, looks like you need
to upgrade your X server....
For all the criticism of "microsoft flunkies" in here, perhaps the slashdot community should start pointing a finger at itself.
In the past four months I have not seen one rational debate on a weakness in linux. Linux is an operating system for computers. It is not a golden goose. It is not a girlfriend. It has weaknesses, flaws, and warts, just like any system created by humans.
Why not just admit that the original poster is right and get on with it? Anyone who actually understands linux should have no problem concluding that it is not the first choice for high-end multimedia. Linux is useful either as a server OS, a developer desktop OS, or as an OS for people who like to monkey around with computers. Isn't that enough?
By the way, Linux will never support multimedia as good as Be. If you're a multimedia freak, you would know this already.
Hypothetical discussion between mathematicians.
"So the mathematical function is as follows."
1. BG - 15 YEARS = TRUTH
2. Then a miracle happens.
3. BG + MS = $$$$n!
"Could you please elaborate on step number two?"
Please dont flame me. The only piece of microsoft software ever written for linux is the media player. I think it supports avi's and apples mov files and ra files as well as mp3 files. I am no fan of ms but the media player is probably the best option for linux because ms stole opps, I mean borrowed code from quicktime and microsoft has an obsession with multimedia because apple has a clear winner with quicktime. Bill is so obsessed by this multimedia, that he stays up at nights worryinh about it. This is good for us because Microsoft is developing unix software to controll it. I think its still st microsofts web site.
I guess I should ask you the same question. I have ...
tried all the recording programs I could find for
Linux and I don't have one yet that records
correctly or at all at 44100hz. It works well
under winblows. I won't argue with you about the
crashing but to think that the sound works
correctly under Linux, you must be drunk.
I recompiled the programs and it doesn't change
much. Ever since the folks doing the kernel
have fixed the bugs in the sound, virtually
all the sound applications are broken. I get
Real Audio to work with the patch and kmidi
still works as well as the wave and mpeg3 readers
but that's about it. Trying to record off the
line input, at best snd will give you 8035hz,
some useless shit
The basic problem with Linux and multimedia has
to do with a mentality that it has to be perfect.
So either you have a perfect system or none at
all.
For example a bug has been fixed in the kernel
sound and now nothing or almost nothing works
like it should in the sound. If anyone releases
a new version of Linux with the new kernel
before those issues are resolved, he is a bigger
moron than all of the morons at Microsoft.
This would kill a lot of interest that has
surfaced in Linux in the past few months. You
would be suprised how important is good sound
support for people who use computers. At work
most of us don't even have a sound card but
at home most have one and we want to use it.
What are you? Some kinda fucking moron? GNU/Linux is like saying PC/harddrive. They are not the same. Looks like you forgot to check the correct box when installing linux -
"Are you a moron?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
Other than the latest quicktime 3, they support
it really well.
I'm typing this as I view the new Final Fantasy
movie preview on my SGI Indy.
You would think someone could steal the libs
from an SGI to try and implement a linux movieplayer.
The XAnim distributed with Red Hat can't handle
Cinepak avi's, for copyright reasons.
See http://www.kegel.com for a
source RPM and instructions on how to install
a more capable XAnim.
What's great about VNC is you can detach and re-attach X sessions. Can't do that with an X server.
Well.. where does one get this new X server for windows? I saw it on Dos a LONG time ago... Does it run under 98? in a window? or is this another "kludge"...
I guess that makes Richard Stallman a moron, since he's been pushing to have people call Linux systems GNU/Linux. Thus, indicating that much of the Linux system relies on GNU software and wouldn't be near what it is without it. So who's the moron, moron?
Actually, saying `Linux-based GNU' is more like saying `Pentium-based PC', not `hard drive-based PC'; I don't believe that I've seen many PCs with hard drives as their central processing units, though I have seen many Pentium-based PCs (PC/Pentium), as well as K6-based PCs (mine's a PC/K6), and I've seen a good number of computers running the GNU (pronounced "g'noo") operating system with Linux as their kernels (Linux-based GNU, AKA GNU/Linux).
Some people complain that `just because it's under compiled with GCC doesn't mean it's GNU (the group, pronounced "noo" or "nyoo") software--if it was compiled with an HP compiler, would that make it HP/Linux?', and the fact is that it's not part of a GNU system because of GPL or because it was compiled with GCC--it's part of a GNU OS because the OS, sans kernel, is called `GNU'; if you were to stick Linux into a BSD system, then you'd have a `Linux-based BSD' or, in a non-formal, written document, `BSD/Linux', and, yes, if you managed to replace the HP-UX kernel with Linux, then the resulting OS would be `HP/Linux' (or maybe `HP-UX/Linux'.
Now, which box are you going to check?
Definitely true.
It just disgusts me how so many Linux users always cry "Windows has this, why doesn't Linux?" I honestly feel this spurns from the lack of intelligence of many Linux users. Linux is great, in my opinion, but many of its followers are not. If you want something that Windows has that Linux doesn't either:
1. Use Windows and shut up.
2. Write an implementation/driver for Linux and shut up (assuming you are intelligent enough to do this)
3. Shut your mouth (assuming you are intelligent enought to do this)
All of your whining makes me sick. It tells me the average age of Linux users is 15, and lowers my respect for the Linux community altogether. I guess this is the consequence when something becomes widely accepted: you have a very small percentage of bright people working hard for it, while the other 98% are yelling "Is there a driver yet?". Then you have the so-called contributors who write up a program my dog could write and release it to the public as v0.0.9 pre-alpha. That's my other gripe, stop releasing code that's unfinished. My only guess is these 'developers' are immature, from the looks of their code and from the functionality of it. But I don't want to get into that... (just go to freshmeat). Linux does NOT need developers. There are too many of those. It needs more talented individuals.
But anyways, why is Windows always the standard when talking about Linux functionality? This doesn't make any sense to me. Was UNIX designed for playing games? You don't play Quake on linux, you run the server on Linux. Get it? SERVER. Do you know what that means? WORKSTATION, do you know the difference? Wee, I run Linux and KDE, so I'm a UNIX guru! UNIX is not meant for the masses, it's meant to control the masses. Linux has undergone some genetic bastardization; breeding morons who equate Redhat with Linux, and don't know the difference between nfsd and mountd even though it's running on their SERVER. Some wouldn't know what pwconv does if you slapped them on the head with the printed man page.
If you're a Linux user who knows nothing about UNIX, please do yourself a favor and shut the hell up. Go do some reading, and when done, read some more. Realize that you are in a domain filled with other losers like yourself; the world of Linux. "Yay Open Source!" Yet few can probably even understand kernel source code, much less modify it. They read a book on C and think they are code warriors.
Write your own damn driver. If you don't know how, learn. Develope! You know, on your WORKSTATION! Then release it to the public as Open Source v0.0.9 pre-alpha.
Sigh... that was fun.
QuickTime is a framework.
last time I looked, there were *dozens* of supported codecs - audio, video, vector graphics, timecodes, text, special effects (fire, clouds, etc), still image. Some are specific to QT, but QT *isn't* a codec.
Think of it like a mixing desk for video, where you have a bunch of tracks and you want to blend them all together. QuickTime allows you to do your edits using time and has a pretty clean way of assigning times and rates to tracks and media that are largely independent of the specific sample rates etc of the media.
QuickTime allows many different kinds of media to be combined and edited without going insane trying to understand the data format of each kind of codec or figuring out how to shuffle around all that data.
It allows many kinds of media to be imported and exported from other file formats (ie: JFIF/JPEG, TIFF, MPEG, AVI etc)... IMHO the still image manipulation stuff is worth learning the API for in itself.
anyway, QuickTime is not just a file format!
cheers,
dean perry
Gee, thanks. A link to software that doesn't work in the first place. You're so generous.
the commercial software Debabelizer does this, tho i think its only for windows.. maybe macs/SGI as well, but i doubt a linux ver..
someone ought to make an OSS debabelizer type product..
I'm under the impression that I'm looking at a 1024x768 32bpp display provided courtesy of a TNT based card(Diamond viper550) but you say that isn't possible...Oh well. My soundblaster awe-64 must be disfunctional, too.
Whos says Unix has to be hard to use? Who says it can't have good multimedia support? SGI sure doesn't.
Freebsd 3.0-STABLE supports USB. It does identify the controller at bootup. I'm not sure how complete the support (plus I don't have any USB devices), but they have devices for mouse, keyboard, printer, modem, a generic deivce, and a "Human Interface Device".
Microsoft Netshow is not available for a reason. Email me at i_hate_vi@yahoo.com to find out why.
20 Years ago people were probably saying, computers in everyone's house? yea right! Computers are only for scientists, engineers, and geeks...
There are binary versions of xanim running around with support up to IV 5. The reason I call them "underground" is becouse thay are not offical and contain IV codecs thay dont have permission to. I personally have looked high and low for the binary with no luck, becouse im a bug AV junky myself.
my previous message had a mailto: url that /. for some reason skipped...
anyways, here's the email address of Charles Wiltgen, the QuickTime Evangelist at Apple:
cwiltgen@apple.com
Check out the animation "FAQ" at the Internet Ray Tracing Competition. It has a table listing two MPEG-1 encoders. There is also at least one free MPEG-2 encoder that runs under Linux, though I don't know where to find it. Check around on www.mpeg.org for links-to-links. Most of the code is pretty raw, but works okay.
mtv is a good peace of software, but it has its low points. Like the fact you need to do "Hardware Zooming" (aka changing your x11 res to about the res of the MPEG your playing) to get full screen MPEGS. And if you have a shitty xserver or slow processer then sometimes you may only get like 20 fps. My AMD K6 233 with a riva 128 never got the full 30 fps. But now that im using a Voodoo Banshee with the Frame Buffer xserver I'm getting the full 30. I find that amazing considering that damn VESA fbcon is really slow.
No, MpegTV cannot (yet) play DVD's, but it can play VCD's (Video CDs).
Ok people. So you want to use all these great multimeda files that big corps. spent lots of money on. The way I see it there are two choices.
1) Create your own multi-media formate. After all isn't that what Linux and open source is all about. Or of course you could always write your own player. You can't expect everyone else to do everything for you. Besides isn't that the true spirt of open source? Write you own?
2) Swallow your pride and buy a real OS. If you don't like Win try the Mac and run LinuxPPC side buy side with it.
I agree, I'm sick of reading this bullshit about how Linux is so fucking great it can do anything.
It *CAN'T* do everything, it SUCKS for hardware
support of the latest stuff. No, this ISN'T Linus or Alan Cox's fault, it's the fault of the hardware manufactures.
One day, if things continue the way they are, we'll get the support that we want, and things will be perfect. However, at the moment they are not.
I have a G200 graphics card, and am unable to use some of it's better features thanks to Matrox and their wonderful ploy of promising specs then refusing to hand them out.
I have a AWE-64, Windows offered me 3D sound when I installed it for someone else with a AWE-64. I don't see this 3D stuff anywhere under Linux. OSS doesn't give me it, and ALSA doesn't either.
Sidenote: Does anyone know of a decent MIDI player capable of using the AWE sound banks, like the mplay with OSS?
Anyway, I expect some of you will accuse me of being Bill Gates or some m$ flunky now, but I
guess the few clueful people reading will know
better.
I'm writing this on Netscape 4.5, under X 3.3.3.1, with Enlightenment and a whole bunch of gnome apps running, with midi's playing, dosemu loaded and the usual host of servers. Linux *is* a good
operating system, it's just not perfect.
In summary (sorry if this jumps about a lot, I'm writing it at 5am): Linux is good, but doesn't have the support needed to challenge Windows in the gaming/multimedia arena yet. This will change.
Check out http://www.mpeg.org
and in particular for an mpeg encoder/decoder
with source code and adequate documentation go to
http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/MSSG/ for mpeg2decode and mpeg2encode. I have had excellent results encoding mpegs with this. I haven't dug into it enough to see if it supports sound though.
I don't know if anyone acutally posted the answer, but here it is:
x ELF.o.Z x ELF.o.Z x ELF.o.Z
.o files into the newly created xanim directory.
First, you need to find the xanim home page. Go to a search engine and search for "xanim home"
one of the results will be:
http://xanim.va.pubnix.com/home.html
If you go there, you'll read that he can't distribute the source code for the useful formats -- but he CAN distribute the precompiled libraries.
So all i needed to do is download the following files:
ftp://xanim.va.pubnix.com/xanim27070.tar.gz
ftp://xanim.va.pubnix.com/modules/xa2.0_cvid_linu
ftp://xanim.va.pubnix.com/modules/xa2.0_iv32_linu
ftp://xanim.va.pubnix.com/modules/xa1.0_cyuv_linu
(There are different libs for each linux system, grab the ones you need)
untar xanim27070.tar.gz and uncompress *.Z
Move all 3 of the
Follow the README file and uncomment the correct lines in the Makefile like it says and type make. Whala. I was surprised that it worked the very first time! Now I can watch nearly any movie on the net.
I don't have a sound card, so i can't comment on sound quality.
Note that you can try viewing the movie before it's done downloading. You can usually tell right away whether it's going to be readable or not
after 5-10% of it's downloaded.
Hope this helps!
~p@
Add any Aureal Vortex sound cards support to the list as well. Opensource is working on it, but keeps pushing the dates back (and this on boards that have been out the better part of a year: not particularly cutting edge). ALSA walked away from Live! support completely. And forget the Diamond MX80 & MX200, as I haven't seen anyone planning to support them.
As far as the TNT's are concerned, yes XFree 3.3.1+ support them but only on a limited non-accelerated level.
I've seen some responses here of the 'sour grapes' variety, 'oh well the Live!/Creative is a crappy card anyway', type stuff. Unfortunately that's a pretty ineffective way to defend the o/s's hardware support. The fact is, it's a _popular_ card, so Linux needs to find a way to support it, whether it's easy, inexpensive, or fun to do.
The fact is, until someone (developers, hardware vendors, software companies) are willing to spend the bucks on Linux's behalf to buy access to NDA Api material, and early code, Linux is always going to lag the commercial O/S's. The Linux community may believe that hardware vendor's charging for/requiring NDA for access to their hardare specs is somehow 'evil', but unfortunately, it's not evil, it's just the way they've done business for many years. Basically the Linux community needs to quit asking for special treatment to avoid issues that any other o/s developer complies with/pays for and get in line with the MacOS/Win9X-NT's/BeOS's of the world and play the game the same way they do. Profit is what motivates any company. Don't expect hardware companies to change their way of doing business just because you've changed the operating system model.
I think you better check into Wine, they are doing a good deal of DirectX already!
Some people are saying you can play multi-media but you can't see it. I 'recorded' something off a VCR once using a program called stream (it works with xtv which works with the PCI-TV card I paid $100 for off the internet, which uses the bttv chipset). Stream just grabbed and dumped data, but I was able to create video file using a program called mpeg2encode which I could then play with mtv. All the code I downloaded and compiled from source except mtv, which is commercial for linux. Sound didn't work though. Actually I think I did get a separate sound file and there's probably a way to merge them, I just haven't figured it out yet. Maybe I'll just wait till the hard working developers come up with newer releases.
Hmm, I saved off a history of the command sequences that got me as far as I did:
615 stream -start 19:40:00 -end 19:40:05 200 180 audio1 video1
617 mpeg2encode str2ppm.par out.m2v
618 mtv out.m2v
-----------OK, I got a video but no sound, here's how I got sound:
578 ~/mpegaudio/musicin audio4 > audio4.out
579 ~/mplex-1.1/mplex audio4.mpg space2.mpg merged.mpg
Linix support for latest sound and 3D hardware SUCKS. Point. I am speaking about drivers. Latest hardware is never supported well on linux. The first beta drivers start appearing only 6 months after the release of a hardware piece. And the driver becomes more or less stable another 6 months after that. I am not whinning. This is truth. The 3D hardware support sucks too. Your only choice is 3DFx and supposedly Creative in future.
You all know Oregonians do it differently. First we blow up a beached whale, and now we blow up a beached ship. Wonder what we'll blow up next?
--Mike (Proud to be from Oregon)
I have a 600MB mpg file and it plays fine with sound.
I have an S3 Virge of some kind with an MPEG decoder chip. Does anybody know of any Linux software that can use this? Both Xing and, whatsit, the MS MPEG player thing seemed to have no trouble with it under Win95. It's the one Windows feature I still miss. It seems like it'd be something that'd be easy enough to do, but I know nothing about it.
Anyone want to guess why there are free realaudio decoders around when realaudio doesn't release specs? Because I disassembled it, commented the code a bit so it wasn't an obvious disassebly and posted it anonymously to usenet. In the process of doing this it was discovered that large parts of realaudio were simply ripped off from some CCITT reference implementations, and real audio never had any proprietary rights to it anyway. (What did you expect from a company staffed by ex-microsoft people? :)
Anyway, since prettymuch everything has moved to MP3 now, I dropped the realaudio-hacking project about a year ago. But seriously, it only took a couple of weeks to reverse-engineer the realaudio codecs; if anyone really cared how the intel shit worked, they would have figured it out by now. You guys should start acting like true hackers instead of pathetic whiners. Maybe the truth is nobody gives a shit about Intel's secret algorithm. I don't. Open standards will always win in the end anyway.
installing through compiling your own programs and PRAYING that you have the right libraries... having to type command line after command line to start a single program with particular options to get it to run right...
any of this sound familiar to you guys? i know it does to me... this is the reason i stick to windows, even if it is buggier then hell...
want the iv5 codec? go get it and hit the exe you downloaded.. no worries about other libraries being the wrong versions, no hard compiling/configuring of makefiles or typing command lines... the closest i come to doing stuff like this is under NT where i have to get a hack of directx5 and a hack of the i263 codec... still easy though, stuff i could've done myself but found easier since it was already done...
you want an os that works and does everything you want? it'll have to START as a GUI and then have a linux shell, much the same way NT works. (MINUS the registry hopefully - stupid MS bastards, every time i crash i lose another 32k of mine)
you ask why people criticize linux... well its cause its TOO DAMN HARD TO DO NORMAL STUFF ON IT
Why don't you try BeOs.
It's fast and stable.
Is you want a stable, fast and a multimedia rich
os go to www.be.com.
Or why dont you take the virtual tour
http://www.be.com/products/beos_tour/index.html
Not an option.
The reason that you have to get these multiple libraries is that the source code is only available under heavy NDA, which the XAnim author has signed.
Therefore source is *NOT* available, and even if it were, you couldn't change the licensing out from underneath it. LGPL still DOES require that the source code be ABLE to be made freely available. No, this is a case where closed-source is the only option.
For fans of the Halloween document, this is an instance of a 'de-commoditized' protocol. That is to say a 'protocol' whose implementation information is not publicly available, and therefore not publicly duplicatible. This is the bane of the Open Source movement, of course.
Much as I wish that there would be an OSS solution I am a realist enough to realize that the best video/audio compression algorithms and their corresponding decompression will almost always be held as Trade Secrets, and protected by law, because they are very close to 'True Inventions'. The best you can hope for is 'zero cost software gets free licenses to the patents', like SEEMS to be the case with the MP3 compression algorithms.
For now, here's what can be done, in terms of 'conquering the desktop'. Get the XAnim guy to *SELL* a version of XAnim that is precompiled and works with all the Codecs, and then have one of the not-so-picky distributions (like Caldera, for example) get a license to distribute the executable for some very low fee.
Poof. Working video in a standard distribution.
As long as there is too strong a bias against non-free software, there will be SOME portions of the desktop that are forever out of our reach, imho.
Let me try...
Solaris (in general, not just x86) has support from a little company (not really little) named Veritas. Veritas is *THE* premiere company in RAID software storage solutions, wolfpacking (or is it clustering? I never remember), storage replication, volume management, and generally redundant storage systems well into the multi-terabyte range.
I've been developing really GOOD low level driver software for 10 years now, and I interviewed with Veritas recently. They were *THE* only company I've ever interviewed at that made me sit back and think, 'Good god. I'm not a good enough programmer to work here!' It wasn't anything they said, but this pervasive sense that every person I talked to was INCREDIBLY brilliant.
With support like that, yes, Solaris (whether x86 or not) is the top choice for total quality RAID support. It's mainly that Sun has been working with Veritas for damn-near ever, and opening the kimono totally to the Veritas folks, so they've been able to build truly amazing systems for it.
I know Linux has won independent contests in the speed category, so that's not 'talking out of the hat'. I can buy the other two from the minor exposure I've had to them, but I couldn't say for sure without seeing independent testing or doing it myself. (Perhaps a ranking of CERT advisory incidence on OpenBSD...?)
In any case, yes, Solaris has the serious quality RAID locked up. The HARDWARE may be available for Linux (although I doubt it, I'm not 100% sure so I'll give the benefit of the doubt), but the software is nowhere near Veritas's level of competence.
Agreed. 90% of the users out there don't need a SB-Live except maybe for bragging rights. The only thing that SB-Live does that the AWE64 doesn't (for non-sound mixing users) is 5.1 sound (which is completely ridiculous if your head is 3 feet from the monitor screen, and it's unlikely that you've got the speaker hardware to handle it anyways. Even if you do, matrixed two-channel dolby is fine even with mid-line audio systems.)
A solid SB-64 is a much better choice, unless, of course, you've got a new box without ISA slots.
Thankyou.
it's all too often that i hear people bagging out Linux because it doesn't support their particular hardware.
hardware manufacturers cannot ship a single product without drivers for windows.. no one would buy it.. hence windows supports 'everything'.
if you want hardware supported under Linux, it's the hardware manufacturers responsibility.
for my part, i actually take a second to *think* before i buy something and choose a piece of equipment that will work under Linux ***BEFORE*** i pay for it, this way i know i'm not wasting my money, AND i'm supporting companies which have hardware supported by linux (possibly through no fault of their own).
be a little smarter people.
- KRAZ
What about using the Win95 binary codecs in Linux? If the API used to talk to these codecs was known, would it be possible?
It's GNU/Debian and since it is, it cannot include anything which is not under GPL or LGPL. Redhat is another issue, they are out _only_ for success, so they will/could also include the complete xanim without problems.
xanim's additional codecs cannot be GPL'ed, the author has signed a NDA to not release the specs/source. It's fine with me.
Try RA. There is a player for all platforms and a server for most platforms. If you want streaming audio or video this is the way to go.
There is a Banshee-specific
XF86_SVGA server at
http://glide.xxedgexx.xom/status.html
It's working very well for me right now,
has partial h/w accel support
and is produced by the glidemeister himself,
who is also planning glide support for the
banshee (and voodoo3, for that matter).
(Although I do have a soft spot for
the fb* system, since I came over from
linux/m68k and linux/apus on the Amiga...)
i flame you for holding strange and unfounded ideas. Would I use linux to do graphics? no, i'd use sgi or macintosh. I hate to tell you this but not all linux users use linux for EVERYTHING. A lot of us have needs that aren't yet fulfilled under our favorite OS. (money management, sound/video editing, music composition, and much much more) I suggest you refrain from lumping all linux users together in the future.
An closed mouth gathers no feet.
A lot of people seem to feel personally offended if someone says *anything* negative about Linux. Then they start defending it with crappy arguments. :)
I run Linux everyday and removed my Win95 from my PC since I haven't got the time to play games anymore at this time (I used both OS's for a long time) and can't afford to buy any VideoCDs.
But I *know*, just as ANYONE who actually ever used Windows should, that it's multimedia capabilities are FAR better than Linux's. Just insert a VideoCD and play it with both OSs. Mediaplayer2 plays 'em GREAT and with mtv you can only run 'em standard size. If you'll do any upscaling with mtv your framerate will fall down, far down.
Basically it's the only thing I love about Windows, it's great for playing videos and even better for playing games.
I really wish someone would tell me "Hey, I found a great program for Linux that beats the shit out of Mediaplayer or ActiveMovie!" But the thing is the only replies I'll get are some fanatics, saying that Linux is *the best* OS for everything, being the user friendliest, most supported by the gamecommunity, best for this, best for that... ah well...
Agreed. :p.
The free download doens't support playing
multiple files, but shell scripting's really
quite easy
It's a proper X app too.
Looks like what we need is Quicktime 3 (or 4) for Linux...
THat would solve all of these problems at once!
I wonder if that could be seens, in a near future at least....
leadership@apple.com
anyone?
I'm a stupid AC dumb enough to bite on this. What do I need to do to make it work?
The difference between Linux and the rest of the
OS world, is that whatever is lacking, WE CAN ADD.
It's the difference between owning your own home
and land, and living in an apartment on the 20th floor
of some building. If Linux is lacking a garage, we
can build one.
Thats why a lot of people can be fanatical -- it's the possibilities and
things to come that make them optimistic and defensive when someone
starts bitching that Linux doesn't have this or that.
:)
Its fast and stable, but it lacks support....
If you're so keen on using the right tool for the right job, you'd be doing all of your multimedia editing on an Amiga.
down boy down
thats a good doggie
You can download and compile mpeg2play. It is :) I personally have badly hacked the source to somewhat remedy the sound/speed problem. Now I just need a faster computer...
p eg2play-1.1b/)
nice because it plays mpeg-2's which mpegtv does not. However, mpeg2play does not automatically read framerates from the mpeg file. You have to specify the speed if you want other than the fastest decode. If you want to decode a 24 fps 320x200 mpeg of high quality, you need a pretty fast machine. It won't automatically skip frames to keep up like mpegtv. It does seem to give better picture quality than mpegtv, however. Also, it doesn't do sound. I kind of remedied this in the script below, however.
Mpegtv only plays mpeg-1's. It won't play Mpeg-2s. (Isn't DVD mpeg2?) You can download mpegtv from mpegtv.com. If you want to use their graphical user interface, you have to pay $. If you're happy with a command line interface (as I am) then you can just use their freeware program mtvp, which is fully configurable using command line options and environment variables. It does sound, frame skipping, etc. the whole lot. It's pretty nice. No source though.
Hopefully, if ATI comes out with Linux graphics drivers for their cards, they will make some simple API for using their mpeg decoder hardware.
#!/bin/csh
# I could not find a good MPEG2 video AND audio player (an MPEG
# system file player) for Linux.
# I could
# write one myself, I suppose, except that I have very little knowledge
# of MPEG and don't have the time. However, there
# are a number of video only MPEG players and audio only MPEG players, so I
# created a hack, which is this shell script.
#
# It would be very good if someone could throw audio into mpeg2play
# and post it for everyone to grab. That would be a good student
# project or something. Unfortunately, it's not my field or I would do it.
#
# Script usage:
# scriptname MPEG.A.V.filename.mpg
#
# The shell script uses splitmpeg (www.mpeg1.de/util/unix/splitmpg.tar.gz)
# to split MPEG system (audio and video) files into separate audio
# and video streams. Then, each separate stream is played by its respective
# player. This script uses mpeg2play
# (http://hpux.u-aizu.ac.jp/hppd/hpux/X11/Viewers/m
# for the video, because this
# is the best mpeg video player I've found. It's pretty fast and
# seems to play just about anything. I use amp as the audio player
# because I had some problems with mpg123 reading from FIFOs.
# Note that this script (splitmpeg) will only work on system files
# and not on video or audio alone.
#
# Of course, there is no audio/video syncronization, etc., and
# mpeg2play plays video at the highest possible rate if you
# don't specify a frame rate rather than playing it at the
# intended rate. To keep the video from running away from the
# audio or vice-versa, I unbuffered the audio stream (amp -nobuffer)
# so splitmpeg can only run as fast as the audio player.
# And, of course, there is no frame skipping, etc. To play a
# 350x240 MPEG you have to have a pretty fast machine (in 1998.)
#
set mpegvideoplayer = "mpeg2play -f30"
set mpegaudioplayer = "amp -nobuffer"
mknod stm192.mpg p
mknod stm224.mpg p
$mpegaudioplayer stm192.mpg &
cat stm224.mpg | $mpegvideoplayer - &
./splitmpeg $1
rm stm???.mpg
# I include this for my own safety.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.
And yes iv used it, and yes for more then a day.
Im testing it, so far, it blows compared to linux.. Much better then winblowz though
Has anyone gotten rvplayer to work on RedHat 5.2!?! I downloaded the package from Real and it brings up the media and then just stops (yes, the play button is selected). I have to slide the progress meter around to hear or see anything. I downloaded an RPM for rvplayer 5 from the contrib.redhat.com site and whenever I load any media, it tells me that the media isn't supported. Anyone get this to work?
Xanim can play MOV, QT, and AVI's, but you have
to download a pre-compiled object and compile it into Xanim. It really isn't a big deal thing to do if you want support for those other formats. So far, I've found that the MOV support is very good, but the MPG quality isn't as good depending on the encoding method used.
Settle down...its no rat...
Once you're done getting XAnim, MpegTV, and some other multimedia players, try out Plugger. It provides Netscape plug-in capability for the file formats used in XAnim, MpegTV, Timidity, splay, and mikmod. Especially good for those QuickTime videos embedded in the @Home video news section.
Yes, if you recompile xanim with the optional codecs, AVIs work fine (at least most of them).
It even plays the infinitely cool whale.avi file, and the sound is a lot better on my box than under Win3.1. OS/2 doesn't even play it!
DO get the exploding whale! It's a true story. Off the coast of Oregon in 1970, a dead whale washed up on the beach. The highway department, in their infinite wisdom, decided to blow it up, and it was an utter disaster. The video is an actual news report of it.
Gnu/Linux is correct. It is the proper title for the Linux kernel and the GNU tools that make up a usuable operating system.
My Freakin Blog
...work fine under WINE (witness StarCraft). You can also compile source using DirectX against Winelib (though why you'd want to I don't see; there are much cleaner cross-platform APIs.
3D support has nothing at all to do with the linux kernel -- and this is how it should be in any OS (see "stability").
There is open 3D. It's called OpenGL, and runs just about anywhere. Folks can use it without compromising their source in the same way 3dfx does -- having a closed library (see "glide") that's called by the open one (see "mesa").
As for sound support, ALSA is far better designed than OSS or Windows sound support. Now, hardware... . Most new sound hardware's backwards compatible with Creative's stuff. If not... well, as someone said, multimedia is Be's thing.
No, WinNT trails Linux in multimedia (though 9[58] holds better hardware support).
It's not ridiculous at all. Most of the Windows stability problems I've seen are due to bad drivers.
And the thing is, tracking down and fixing these problems can't be done without the source. As it stands, I have complete control over how my machine operates; It does nothing without allowing me to see exactly what it's up to.
Binary-only drivers eliminate that.
I don't mind having binary-only apps -- but when stuff I have no control of makes its way into my kernel (or does privilidged stuff), I care -- and reasonably so.
You probably knew this, but the reason Xanim doesn't support too many newer codecs out of the tarball is because the author had to sign NDAs to get that support there in the first place. In order to distribute the code, he'd have to break the NDA, which is not generally regarded as a wise decision.
Unix as an OS for the Imac crowd (including people's grandmas)? I pray not. Call me a Unix snob if you like, but Unix is not an OS for the computer-illiterate, nor should it be. There *is* a market segment which is better suited by the Imac, despite the claims of "Linux-everywhere" advocates.
Posted by chmod777:
I found an enhanced xanim on http://odin.appliedtheory.com/. It could play most AVIs and QTs, but the Page dosnt exists anymore.
Maybe anyone knows what happend with.
Yes. QT is a big bundle of code for dealing with fileformats. Imagine a large, widely supported library for dealing with/ parsing HTML docs. Call this lib HTML and make it the only real way of looking at HTML fields and you have an analogy. Now make this thing support PDFs, RTF, Sorenson text docs, Textipac etc.. and you ahve a better analogy. Now make this thing 15 megs and contain a large proportion of the mac toolbox and you have a practically perfect analogy...
Personaly, making a HTML decoder into a standard LIB would be so kick ass and problably very possible since the MOZILLA project. wooo, use movie player to surf the web.. funky..
I downloaded and tried this thing, it showed sqwat for me.
Typice M$ crap
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
If you're using MpegTV, doon't run 'mtvp' directly, that's only the player engine. Run 'mtv' - that gives you an Xforms-based UI to control playback from. (Works great for VideoCDs in the recent releases.)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Could it really be that there really isn't the interest in multimedia that you think there is? I really could care less about Multimedia for either Windows or Linux. I want to watch a movie or the news for instance I either rent a video or turn on the TV set. I've never bothered with watching an mpeg or avi via the WWW. After all once you've seen one XXX mpeg or avi you've pretty much seen them all....
And if you're not a multimedia freak, why should you give a damn? Your mistake MS Stooge is in thinking that people who use Linux and those who use Windows care about the same things. We don't......
Do you actually *KNOW* anyone who owns a force feedback joystick or any other of this silly gamer harware? I don't. That tells you right there just how popular a lot of the PC-gamer nonsense really is.
If you professional video editors know about Linux, there's no doubt that Quicktime for Linux would move a large number of MacOS users to Linux for the PowerPC platform. Imagining rendering while editing in Gimp with complete smoothness. Imagining rescheduling jobs on the fly. I believe professional video and audio are the only two things sustaining MacOS right now and Apple would definitely lose that if MacOS wasn't the only OS supporting Quicktime on the PowerPC.
Actually, the DirectX API is publicly
documented; if it weren't, it would be very
difficult for people to write games that use it.
As such, a clean-room implementation that works
from just that documentation is possible, and is
being done by the Wine people.
I agree. Mpeg TV is incredible. I bought it the week after I downloaded the demo. The quality is flawless, and it can play DVDs!!
AVI sucks as far as formats go. MPG has the photographic quality and incredible compression of JPEGs and the sound of MP3s (MPEG-AUDIO).
Don't get me started on Quicktime -- they're just animated GIF's with an attached audio.
??? You are confusing 'is unable to...' with 'does not...'. Linux is perfectly capable of supporting more hardware, it just doesn't. :-) This isn't a design issue, it's a political issue. Companies don't want to put the effort into a driver for a platform that's not 'mainstream' and don't want to release the specs to let anyone else. But the infrastructure for most stuff (excluding some oddball input devices and so on..I don't know anyone who has a force-feedback joystick anyway..) is there.
Daniel
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
To get more codecs and multimedia software, Linux has to support this API. It's a much stronger argument to go to Intel, Sorenson, or any other codec developer and say "if your QuickTime codec compiles on MacOS/Windows it'll only need some tweaking to run on Linux" than it is to whine at them about how they need to support your favorite operating system. This goes double for application developers.
One other suggestion: Follow GNUstep's lead and separate the front end from the back end of the multimedia system. It'd be cool for game developers to be able to use LinuxTime in their SVGALib game, or for application developers porting from OPENSTEP & Mac OS X to use it within GNUstep on Display GhostScript, or...
Does anyone know of any software for converting between different formats... like say from QT or AVi to MPEG-1(2) ? I've always been surprised how there seems to be nothing around which does that.
There definitely are mpeg encoders out there. Just do a search. I used one a couple years ago to record a CGI animation, but I don't remember where I got it from.
Define "proprietary".. BeOS is posix compliant and compiles alot of unix apps right out of the box. Just cuz they arent gpl, and dont run binaries from other os's doesnt mean they are 'proprietary'
..
What xanim really needs is a way to dynamically load relocatable codec objects so we don't have to recompile it to use the proprietary codecs.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
I was unable to find an email address, but there is a discussion forum here.
s html
...regarding this subject. I would think that Intel would at least consider it, given their support of Red Hat and the commitment to Linux on Merced.
/. effect of postings might raise some awareness, eh?
Here is the message I posted:
"Subject: Intel CoDecs for Linux?
There is currently a discussion on Slashdot:
http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/99/02/12/1342224.
How about it, Intel? At the very least, it would be great to have a free binary available to play files encoded using the latest Intel standards. I'm sure the Linux Community would prefer something open source, but that's not completely necessary.
Please give it some consideration.
Cheers, Matthew"
Perhaps a
Xing has a very nice video stream product called Streamworks.y er/
Of course there is a Streamworks palyer for Linux:
http://www.xingtech.com/support/downloads/swpla
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
...including AVI, MOV, and MPEG. It does barf on some of them (mostly weird MPEGs). I've also noticed that its MPEG decoding performance stinks compared to the players I've used in Windows.
hawk@celine:hawk> xanim --version
XAnim Rev 2.70.7.0 by Mark Podlipec (c) 1991-1998
I got it from a Debian package, version 2.70.7.0-3.
Now, what I really need is a Linux Vivo player. I'd even settle for a Windows player I could run under Wine. `
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
"QuickTime = animated GIF"? On what technical data are you basing THAT comment on? I'm assuming you're not trolling -- idiot trolls usually hide behind AC logins. Therefore, you MUST simply be uninformed. :)
:-/
QuickTime isn't perfect, but it's MILES ahead of anything out there, which is why every digital video editor I've talked to SWEAR by it. It has nothing to do with "Apple loyalty" either, because even the bozo's on NT4 use QuickTime.
MPEG is a good solution for compression and platform independence, given the lack of good QuickTime support on other platforms like Linux.
Quicktime has been selected as the basis of MPEG4 because it works well, and I suspect partly because "its not Microsoft". So eventually you will be able to use a modern video player instead of pea-shooting ata topic you know nothing about.
Cheers,
Scott
Hmmm... since you're the expert I was wondering why you didn't mention the Mac for video editing? Oops.
Even with the imbalance in "overall" market share, a majority of Adobe Premiere users select the Mac as their platform. They probably know something you don't.
The way I see it Linux WILL be the future of multimedia. I shake my head everytime I hear someone do comparisons like this... it's not like "Linux" is a commercial offering struggling to keep up with Microsoft, or hoping they don't get noticed by them (like Be).
Maybe some other open OS will take over, but right now it looks like Linux. One thing I am certain of is once this happens, the billions that are wasted on Microsoft will in the end be extra money in our pockets and to spend on hardware toys. Be patient and everything will eventually fall into place. Once it DOES, no one can take it away, and that's the most important thing. I'm waiting for USB drivers so I can migrate away from SCSI, but I just have to wait.
I for one will build my next Linux box out of Creative components wherever possible...
I know this isn't on the front page any longer, but it may help someone.. (then again, don't all /. readers watch Freshmeat also?) Quicktime low level library 0.5.0
I know this isn't on the front page any longer, but it may help someone.. (then again, don't all /. readers watch Freshmeat also?) Quicktime low level library 0.5.0
For one thing the kernel is not the only place one puts in functionality in Unixs. A lot of it can be in user space too.
This is so when the functionality is too complicated or is not dependent on such kernel-only processing such as interrupt handling or physical memory addressing and stuff.
So if I wanted to support a sound card I would put it in the kernel. But video cards are typically supported from user space.
Next, Linux *does* support multimedia - just like Microsoft does.
What happens is that *vendors* provide the support for their devices in Windows. Many vendors do not provide this support for linux - simply because it probably isn't a large enough market - *not* because linux isn't capable or lacks the architecture.
So its vendors who do not support Linux and not linux that does not support multimedia.
veliath
I've been raising the issue of QuickTime ports to Solaris and Linux in the QuickTime developers mailing list for sometime and Apple just aren't interested.
Theire attitude to a Solaris port is go and talk to Sun, which seems a strange attitude to me.
Andy
Or maybe it's just a dumb baby? ;-)
Oh sure, just shut up. That will do a lot of good. Then all the drivers needed are bound to appear. I know this is hard to understand, but if no one who can't code voices a need, no one with the skills to make drivers will know what needs to be done. The last thing we need is a 'talented individual' with time on his/her hands making yet another window manager when there is hardware to support and real features to add.
Of course, this all assumes that one can write drivers for the hardware with companies keeping specs under lock and key - but you don't need to acknowledge that! No, just call people stupid and demand they write the drivers themselves.
Speaking of writing, are you honestly suggesting that the open-source methodology of "release early, release often" is a bad idea? Sure, maybe you'd like it if the first release of code was called '1.0'. Its been done a lot, mostly by commercial entities, and the result is something that *should* have been called v0.0.9pre-alpha. Or maybe you'd have liked to skip all 100+ development kernels so the first time anyone saw the new kernel was 2.2.
But anyway, since when is *nix a server-only OS? It's still the preferred engineering workstation at places like IBM, AMD, Intel, and of course at Uni's. With KDE and StarOffice its a decent workstation for just about anyone. But take that same WORKSTATION and run ftpd on it, and suddenly its a SERVER (even though the engineer is still using it for his spice simulations). The difference between a server and a workstation is just what software you choose to run on it, and the two needn't be mutually exclusive.
Since when do you need to be a unix guru to use linux? So what if you don't know pwconv does? Does that make you dumb? Hardly. I know at least two dozen programmers who develop operating systems (OS/400 if you must know) but don't even know what shadow passwords are, because they don't care. And they do their development on AIX WORKSTATIONS.
Really what pisses me off is the kind of elitist crap whereby the ONLY measure of intelligence is programming ability and knowledge of *nix. Like people can only qualify to use an OS if they can make alterations to its kernel. Hey, maybe some of us would rather use our WORKSTATION to write novels than hack our OS. Maybe some of us would rather make the silicon that your silly drivers and OS run on, and could care less if we can make sense of kernel code (after all, anyone can code -- even your dog!)
I hate to burst the elitist self-proclaimed 'unix-guru' bubble, but if you do not know what pwconv does it doesn't make you dumb, and knowing what it does doesn't make you smart. It doesn't even mean you know anything about unix.
You're right; that was fun.
The enemies of Democracy are
Get xanim (must be from Woven Goods or SuSE) this version supports all codecs MS, Quicktime, etc.
RealPlayer of course from the Netscape archive and
X11amp or (recommended) Xaudio. The mxaudio player
that comes in xaudio is really superb. Woven Goods
has a complete collection of add-ons that makes
Linux complete including plugins for Netscape. Add mtv, timidity, and xltwavplay and you can definitely throw Windows out the door.
-- Ted tsikora@powerusersbbs.com
There is something called Aktion that comes with Linux-Mandrake. Then click on features on the left.
Among others, it mentions
aktion 0.2 (mpeg/avi/mov player)
Check it out!
Hi!e r/videoserver/index/book1.html
I am working on Video Server project - this is not exactly the topic of the discussion, but is related. This is the software to broadcast live video across the network or to play video on demand from the database. URL:
http://www.ecsl.cs.sunysb.edu/~andrew/VideoServ
Beware: it is on alpha stage, don't expect it to be useful right now, but i will appreciate if you take a look. I will double appreciate if you put your hands over. The goal is to make this software used in some Universities to be used by students. The next snapshot is expected tomorrow.
Andrew
Xanim only plays I frames from mpeg video streams... the last time I tried it didn't know how to demultiplex audio and video from a sytems stream...
mtv does fine for me.
There are plenty of Mpeg encoders around - Mpeg2Encode which has been incorporated into ImageMagick ( but it requires stupid amounts of memory if you use Image Magick - it loads all teh frames into memory before encoding) - but this only does fixed bitreate streams. I Tend to use the Berkley Mpeg encoder which does variable rate streams nicely (I've about a gigabyte worth of simiulations and movies I've made). For people that can#t live without a GUI there's MpegTool.
These all generate video streams only - if you want to add audio you need to get an mpeg audio stream (but don't use mpeg layer 3 - not many video players support it) and a Multiplexer which packs the video and audio streams into an mpeg systems stream.
Microsoft has been saying that netshow for Linux will be available `in a few weeks' for ages (at least 8 months, to the best of my knowledge). If you think it will ever be released, you are naive or worse. Clearly, Microsoft does this to lull consciencous content providers into believing that their streaming media technology is multi-platform. A perfect example is npr.org, which provides audio for NetShow, and states that UNIX & Linux versions of the client are `coming soon'! The phrase `hook, line, and sinker' comes to mind....
Microsoft seems to have pioneered once again by adding a new twist to the its old vaporware tactic. Who says monopolists don't innovate?
Well, if you want a non-microsoft OS to play video on, give BE a whirl. I think they have the Intel codecs built into the OS, and they are 180 degrees from the Microsoft side of the world.
:)
Hell, their OS is DESIGNED to play video....and they made it so that it's completely happy sharing a computer with another OS..Unlike 98/95/NT
They're gpomg to have GL VERY soon too
You can visit our site at http://linuxmedialabs.com and even order a board that does video capture/playback with (de)compression.
I hate propriatory as much as any other Linux fan and it seems that MJPEG is a very good standard. It's patent clean, it can have very good quality. And the fact that compression ratio is not very high, i.e. you need about 10Gb for a movie would soon become a non-issue with storage capacity and network bandwidth becoming more and more affordable.
Also we have plans to bundle our board with MainActor software, so resonable video solution for Linux is not that far away, maybe in the May timeframe.
Board interfaces are fully open and drivers are under GPL. But more people need to get the board to get GNU process started. We are fully commited to providing video solutions for Linux and have plans for MPEG-1 and 2 board. Of course more support for video (real time) needs to get into Linux kernel and in fact into XFree.
When there is over 10 millions around, and they demand something that would be delivered, by us, or somebody else. That is the true nature of capitalism, not a particular license - be it GPL or not. In fact I'd rather call that Free Market.
Vassili Leonov vleo@linuxmedialabs.com
Vassili Leonov
As HTML 4.0 (and soon XML+XSL) goes mainstream, they're becoming a universal UI toolkit; a growing number of apps are being written to run under MSIE4 with the expectation that 5.0-generation browsers will have as-good-or-better capabilities as a universal application frontend.
One big thing missing is the lack of embeddable media players for Unix in general and Linux too. Standalone, helper-app audio and video players are a start, but they need to be embeddable, whether via plugins, signed Java applet wrappers or <SMIRK>ActiveX controls</SMIRK>. That goes for streaming media, AVI, quicktime and MPEG alike. It's got to happen or a lot of the new generation of browser-based, theoretically cross-platform apps won't work.
I've found xanim to work well, with the exception
of Quicktime 3.0 support, specificaly Sorenson Video. Send mail to pauli@s-vision.com if you'd like a Sorenson Video codec integrated into xanim.
The best way to get multimedia capabilities into Linux is for an open source implementation of the Quicktime API to be created.
Why Quicktime? Because it's a comprehensive multimedia API and its vendor is simply lame, which is a lot better than being antagonistic. It's also good.
Why not just bug Apple to do it? It will take years before they figure it out, years more until they deliver something, and there is absolutely no guarantee they will open-source the code.
I have QTVR code that I am willing to open-source, I just haven't had the time to work on it (see http://www.quickmotion.com).
Some other things people have been glossing over:
- MainActor was originally an Amiga port of XAnim, which was then ported to OS/2, then to Windows. I have seen Markus make enthusiastic remarks about doing something for Linux, possibly even porting their sequencer product. I don't know if it would be open sourced.
- MPEG4 uses the Quicktime file format
- It is possible to reverse engineer codecs. One man, Marc Podlipec, reverse engineered Cinepak. All of us using any platform other than win or Mac have him to thank for having any decent chance of viewing movies at all.
Flame me all you want, but the only Unix-based platform that comes close to multimedia editing (I'm talking about traditional non-linear editing of digital video) is SGI, and I don't have the tens of thousands of dollars to buy both an SGI and a decent video/sound editing package. Windows, on the other hand, gets me Premiere (about $400), Sound Forge (another $400), and a CHEAP Zoran MJPEG chipset capture board (Zoran is totally standard hardware, and only about $200 for the Buz). $1000 gets me broadcast-quality editing, even though I only use it for creating Video CDs (MPEG-1).
Linux is free and the tools are free, but there aren't any tools for this sort of thing under Linux.
Sure, you can play MPEGs on Linux. But you can't create them. That's why I still use Windows for all of my multimedia needs.
I wish that all you Linux advocates (the people who instantly think "Linux" whenever someone writes "Unix") could realize that Linux is not the holy grail of operating systems. I am a firm advocate of using the right tool for the right job--and Windows is currently the right tool for multimedia editing. Linux is the right OS for speed. FreeBSD is the right OS for stability under heavy loads. OpenBSD is the right OS for security. Solaris x86 is the right OS for hardware RAID support. And so on.
I'm not suggesting you reboot all the time, if that's what you thought I was talking about.
As for qualifying statements regarding other Unix OSes, do I need to? I thought it was pretty much common knowledge.
I've got an HP Netserver sitting right next to me; 6 4gig disks on a Mylex RAID controller and Solaris x86 is humming away. (Linux has no driver for it and never will; check the Mylex driver source in Linux, it only supports the newer hardware rev.)
OpenBSD is so secure that it's the only OS that hackers can't break into, even the l0pht runs on OpenBSD.
I've witnessed FreeBSD take a load average of 80 and keep on chugging; the same on Linux 2.2.1 starts dropping packets. ftp.cdrom.com runs on FreeBSD and takes 3000 simultaneous FTP connections averaging 20K/second.
Like I said before: Linux's strength, in my opinion, is speed. It's very fast. But that doesn't make it the only Unix you should run, given your needs. I enjoy Linux--I'm using it right now--but it is not the holy grail of Unix OSes.
Actually, saying `Linux-based GNU' is more like saying `Pentium-based PC', not `hard drive-based PC'; I don't believe that I've seen many PCs with hard drives as their central processing units, though I have seen many Pentium-based PCs (PC/Pentium), as well as K6-based PCs (mine's a PC/K6), and I've seen a good number of computers running the GNU (pronounced "g'noo") operating system with Linux as their kernels (Linux-based GNU, AKA GNU/Linux).
/.'s PERL script does evil things....)
Some people complain that `just because it's under compiled with GCC doesn't mean it's GNU (the group, pronounced "noo" or "nyoo") software--if it was compiled with an HP compiler, would that make it HP/Linux?', and the fact is that it's not part of a GNU system because of GPL or because it was compiled with GCC--it's part of a GNU OS because the OS, sans kernel, is called `GNU'; if you were to stick Linux into a BSD system, then you'd have a `Linux-based BSD' or, in a non-formal, written document, `BSD/Linux', and, yes, if you managed to replace the HP-UX kernel with Linux, then the resulting OS would be `HP/Linux' (or maybe `HP-UX/Linux'.
Now, which box are you going to check?
. o O ( Great--now I look like a moron, too, because the
-rozzin.
But not for the Sorenson Video codec.
I downloaded MS Netshow before the link broke. You can get it from my school's web space. You're welcome. : )
Will Meyer
wmm@wmeyer.boston.ma.us
This is a bit of a digression, but it really bugs me that so many people around here equate "intelligent" with "able to write whatever code they need." Believe it or not, there are some intelligent people in the world who have actually chosen not to become programmers. Perhaps they chose to devote themselves to such challenging fields as math, chemistry, physics, biology, medicine, etc. Maybe they even chose to study philosopy or literature.
How much time does it take to become a programmer capable of writing the multimedia tools whose absence we are lamenting here? Can you fairly ask someone who specializes in something else to put in that time? Accept it: not all non-programmers are stupid.
There is a couple people working on playing DVDs.
Already there are reports of unencrypted DVDs played under Linux.
http://www.rpi.edu/~veliaa/linux-dvd/
says that
http://linuxtv.openprojects.net/
can play unencrypted DVDs.
There are a couple Mpeg-2 codecs but they seem to be for non-comercial usage.
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
New worlds are not born in the vacuum of abstract
ideas, but in the fight for daily bread --Rudolf Rocke
That's got to be the stupidest thing I've ever seen. :)
Troops is worth a viewing too.
Linux has sweet raid support, I use it daily.
the only thing that sucks under linux is lack of apps for video editing. This will change in time, but until then that is the ONLY limiting reason. Win95 has some cutsie toy programs available nothing that can be called serious, and SGI has all the good stuff. I've tried to do video editing on my Win95 box, it sucks.. I fall back to analog editing because of the crappy software and stupid hiccups and crashes.. (Alright the news clip is done, play it to tape and ship it... what? the damn thing crashed again????) If someone would make a good driver or board for video in/out that worked under linux (I mean a good board not that sub $1000.00 crap that doesnt give you true NTSC out or even SVHS out.) things are changing, Linux is young, we are now on the edge of the Application Explosion that is all that is required to bring Linux way past Microsloth or the joke called novell.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Right -- cuz there's no way I want a 16 GB removable media on my computer! Sheeit. I'm more than happy with 750Mb CDs -- oh, and yeah, why bother watching DVD's on my 1600x1200 monitor when I can get 320 whole scan lines on my low res tv. (Or alternatively, I can spend several thou and get an HDTV...hmmm let me think....)
=)
Probably, since QuickTime 3.0 does. It's a set of Java classes to access the QuickTime API. You still need a native version of QuickTime for your system. From http://www.apple.com/quicktime/de velopers/qtjava/
"QuickTime for Java brings these two powerful technologies together, allowing developers to create Java software that takes advantage of the power of QuickTime on both Macintosh and Windows."
I don't think the patent issue applies to hardware decoders. If I remember correctly with dvds the only thing that is patented is the encryption. Since the dvd hardware handles the decryption the software player doesn't need access to the patented routines. IIRC the only real information needed on the creative labs dxr2 card is how to use the mpeg-2 decoder.
-matt
mpeg2encode does a great job. I use it with tvset and xvidcap and my $60 video capture card to put videos of my son on the net.
So, oh technical guru, how much did microsoft pay you? Don't get me wrong, people are free to support whatever views they want, and I don't go screaming M$ lackey at anyone who doesn't support microsoft. The thing is, you're comment sounds an awful lot like a promotional pitch. It's the sort of thing that I'd expect to see on a brochure (sp?).
About sound, ever checked out ALSA?
About 3D, ever hear of precision insight?
About microsoft, that isn't a 3D experience, it's a new version of DOS. If you want to compare Linux to IRIX, and say that IRIX offers real multimedia and Linux doesn't, fine, you'd be right, at least for now. Microsoft offering a complete multimedia experience? Right. My playstation offers a more complete multimedia experience than windows does. And I use that with my TV card under Linux. How do you sleep at night?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Linux does not currently support all sound cards out there. This will hopefully change to a degree, but until Linux has 20-30% marketshare, I don't think that it will change all that much. There will always be Uncle Bill's $5 sound cards that don't work, and there will be some companies who are just anal (creative labs, for example).
About openGL, just wait a bit. Precision Insight is putting together a direct 3D multipipe rendering architecture for XFree86. That combined with Terrence Riperenda's glx work, and you'll have better 3D support than windows does. Then all that's left is hardware support. You should have the 3dfx cards, hopefully matrox cards, and permedia cards. Give it a little while and it should be really good, giving you almost the functionality of some SGI workstations.
As far as controllers, from what I have read, the new Linux joystick driver rivals the win95 one, supporting just about everything (I think that the BFRIS people said that, check them out to be sure).
It's either there or coming. Linux isn't perfect yet, especially not for games. If you really want multimedia, get an O2. Why on earth would to mention windows? There is a lot of hardware compatability problems with NT, and 95/98 is just a new version of DOS with some unified drivers. Playing games, it's incredibly unstable. God, why would you even mention windows? They haven't been able to accomplish anything but market share on that nonsense system.
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
What on earth are the benefits of the SB live? Do you have the appropriate 8 speaker system to take advantage of its new features? It will eventually be supported once creative gets a clue and releases specs. There will probably be some shoddy binary only nonsense that doesn't work for a good percentage of the population even sooner.
As far as 3D, it's not here now, you are correct. It will never be in the kernel. However, XFree86 should be there within 6-12 months. And it won't be shoddy games only crap, either. It should be (given the descriptions of what precision insight is working on) SGI workstation quality software, even if the hardware won't have that sort of power.
Oh, as a side note, I'm not terribly familiar with sound hardware, but creative generally doesn't make very good stuff. All of the boards that we have specs for give evidence of that. They use pathetically small buffers and other junk. Btw,if you want a good sound card, get an Ensoniq AudioPCI card. It has two independent DSPs, so you can play two pcm streams simultaneous (e.g. voice and mp3 background, game and voice, etc.)
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Ok, I see what you mean, and you are correct in it.
I do recommend getting a TV card and a playstation, or just a playstation if you have a TV. It doesn't crash, has a tremendous selection of software, is reasonably priced, has good hardware acceleration, and is compatable with all playstation games. It isn't that good for some forms of RPGs, but FF7 is amazing. Frankly, are the windows games really that much better than the playstation games?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
MpegTV is great, but, I am having problems with larger Mpeg files with sound. But with most MPegs, its fine.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
You make games? Wow.
Well, the whole 3D argument is weak. With 3dfx cards supported, what else do you need for a gamming card? In the windows world, which has lots of games, you have game makers ignoring OpenGL and Direct3D, and doing GLIDE only games. Now if they
do that, what is the problem with porting/making a game for Linux?
Question, how good are those force feedback controllers? Are they any better than the ones for the PlayStation or N64?
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I use mtv on Linux Intel. I didn't had much luck with Xanim so I downloaded and mtv and have used it ever since.
As RMS was explaining earlier, developers should use the GPL when they are offering something that users and developers can't get from the commercial world. The LGPL is useful for things that they could get somewhere else. At least it keeps the source open while still making it possible to compete. As it stands now, Redhat, Debian, etc. can't distribute a version of xanim that can play the newer codecs (i.e., almost anything you get off the internet you can't play with the stock xanim). How are we supposed to conquer the desktop like that? "I'm sorry, you just have to download these separate packages, edit the makefile, and recompile. That's all there is" is not going to cut it with people's grandmas. What do you guys think?
>Would everyone please get off their Linux
>high-horse and look at the kernel. Linux sound
>and 3d are fairly bad supported
My SB Pci 64 seems to be very well supported under linux. (anyone know about the sbpci128?)
Lab test show that use of micro$oft causes deadly cancer in lab animals.
Hello all,
Ben Waggoner here, digital video writer for DV magazine. I'm seeing a bit of confusion here in the distinction between file formats and codecs.
AVI, MOV, and MPG are all file formats, which describe how audio and video data are organized in a file. All of the above formats are publically documented.
The data itself in these is created and decoded by codecs (compressor/decompressor). Some of these are well documented and supported on many platforms (MPEG, MP2, Cinepak, Indeo 3.2), and some of these are highly proprietary (Indeo 4 and above, Sorenson, TrueMotion, Bink, etc.). Generally, open-source players only support older, primative codecs, and so are unable to play an increasing amount of video availible on the web.
Windows Media Player (native support for AVI and NetShow) is Win32 only, discounting some unusable betas for other platforms. QuickTime 3.0 is well supported for Win32 and Mac. Older AVI and QuickTime 2.x support is pretty standard with all these players.
From an issue of platform advocacy, it's not Apple and Microsoft's responsibility for not making all the codecs availible for other platforms' players. The cool codecs are generally created by third parties these days, like Sorenson Vision, QDesign, Duck, and RAD Game Tools. It is up to those vendors to make software availible for Linux et al.
Of course, if Apple or Microsoft decided to create a full UNIX implementation, they would certainly encourage their codec vendors to port as well. A full QuickTime implementation under Linux would be a major win, and preferable to Windows Media Player. Microsoft's digital video efforts have ranged from the laughable to the infuriating, and have always lacked the elegance of QuickTime.
In the mean time, the best file format to use for multi-platform delivery is probably MPEG-1. It's widely availible and provides quite good quality. Die-hard FSF folks may have trouble with some of the patent confusion surrounding MPEG, but there are similar problems with ALL of these technologies.
Sorry, I should have been a little more clear about that.
.mov. However it can read lots of other formats, and even embed other formats inside of a QuickTime file. For example, QuickTime can directly work with DV files, GIF, MPEG-1 (Mac only), 3DMF models, animated GIF files, some AVI, etc. For the purposes of this discussion, QuickTime is mainly important as the only playback mechanism that fully supports the .mov file format, although many players can handle many older 2.0 era files.
QuickTime is a media architecture. Its native file format is the QuickTime file,
But QuickTime does a huge number of other incredible things as well, and a full Apple-supported QuickTime would be definite win for Linux. QuickTime is a complete digital media architecture, complete with video capture, compression, editing, and effects services. And Apple has to do a UNIX port for OS X anyway...
Ben Waggoner