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MacWorld to ship LinuxPPC
An anonymous reader sent in a link to a bit at LinuxPPC
that says that
MacWorld will ship LinuxPPC
in the April issue of their magazine. Anyone have a circulation
number on that?
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macingnulix
I picked up my copy at a bookstore in San Francisco last Friday (03/05/99).
I don't think that the CD ships with the copies of the magazine that are mailed to subscribers
There is no need to use the term Gnu/Linux as the
word Gnu is already incorporated into the word Linux. Just make the G in Gnu silent then you get LiNUx. Notice the nu in Linux which is part of the word Gnu!
While this is really cool from the perspective of linux awareness I just don't see many mac users doing anything but putting their coffee mug on it.
Given that pretty much all modern PCs have the ability to boot from a CD (the El-Torito standard), it wouldn't be necessary to enter windows at all. In fact, a DOS bootable CD w/ a UMSDOS filesystem and LOADLIN in the autoexec would work quite well. All that windows users would have to do is reboot - something they're sure to be already used to.
The cd didn't come in the mail with the subscriber version of Macworld, despite a feature article on Unix on the Power Mac. The article covered MkLinux, LinuxPPC and MachTen. The article was actually pretty good too by the way, a good view of Unix and Linux from the Mac point of view.
there are mac users who are also linux users. I run LinuxPPC on my mac a fair amount of the time, and the guy at the machine next to mine (I'm in a lab full of P-II's running Redhat that my school's cs department rolled out in September) also runs LinuxPPC on his primary personal box. Granted, mac users who decide to try linux will most likely already be unix users who are looking for a way to get unix on their desktops, but doesn't that describe the majority of i386 linux users too? (I knwo some people run linux because of their moral beliefs, but I think that most run it because of its functionality).
So, most mac users may not try to boot LinuxPPC live, but do you think that the average Windows user would be any more likely to boot a similar product if it shipped with a Wondows magazine?
The colors are in the wrong order for that. Whatever. Let 'em think what they want...
Apple Computer, the world's first openly gay computer company.
Is that the issue that misspells every instance of SGI's 'IRIX' in the article on file servers for Mac networks?
Unfortunately R5 with glib 2.[0|1] support isn't ready yet. They're still waiting to compile a stable Netscape Communictor.
How is a circus differentiated from a Nudie Bar?
A circus is a Cunning array of STunts.
mac-ing-new-luhx sounds nothing like the word you are attempting to describe.
LinuxPPC, Inc. is waiting on Netscape..
The developers are waiting on other problems.
Specifically: a few packages are still broken (not holding anything up), "strip" seems broken, the installer is broken due to the strip problem and un-debugable.
We don't want to release a system with a buggy strip, because strip might not be the bug.. And it would be a waste to release 600 megs, and then turn around two weeks later and release 600 megs of updates!
Yellow dog and LinuxPPC, Inc.'s release are going to be based on the same set of core packages. Both groups will then be customizing parts and adding/removing features to suit their customers needs.
R5 is "delayed" due to a bug. As far as we can tell, it is in the strip binary. Until the bug is found and correctly identified we will not release. It would be a VERY VERY bad thing to release 600 megs of binaries and two weeks later release another 600 megs of updates!
perhaps you've never seen or heard of ZIPSLACK ?!?!!?!?!
My Abit board, Award BIOS, about 4 months old, is supposed to be able to boot CD-ROMs. There's a BIOS option for it, at least. But I couldn't get it to work with a BeOS demo disc. Does the CD-ROM drive need to be compliant, or in some place other than /dev/hdc?
My roommate does have a Gateway box, bought last August, that'll boot CDs.
After all, the x86 architecture is a technology as dead as the floppy disk. Only the stupid "internet appliance" two-bit wannabe computer user is too ignorant to recognize it.
Look at the evidence around you: news articles have been pervasive the last month, telling about how the PIII isn't worth half of the price they're asking. Intel has been trying to lose x86 for ages; they'll only START succeeding in obsoleting it with the Merced. The new AMD K6-3 has a speed cap of about 500mhz. It is a dead-end technology.
At the same time, news reports are coming out all the time about IBM developing dual-gate transistors, smaller wiring, copper joints, etc. and Motorola is putting several 604 processors on a single ATX motherboard, and Apple is making improvements in other areas like making Firewire standard. We can see where the future lies.
Sure, many mac users may not know or care what the new Linux deal is all about. The fact remains that PowerPC's, Sparcs, and Alphas are the future of the processor industry, and sooner or later you're going to have to wake up and join the Mac or CHRP world you're so critical of today.
Last laugh is the best laugh. Come join me.
I've used it--sweetest install imaginable.
You just copy a folder (containing the 100MB "Live" filesystem), double-click what appears to be a Mac control panel, and voila! All Mac programs get quit, including the Finder, and it boots up into KDE.
There's no networking and you can't save any changes to the desktop environment. Other bummer: by default root doesn't have rights to any devices, so you can't even run the stupid CD player!
Oh well, not bad for a demo!
And your point is...?
Of course, we've all heard of zipslack, and of course, it has been around longer than LinuxPPC Live. BFD.
Is this another one of those patronising 'silly Mac users' posts?
Spend some time in #macintosh. You'd be surprised how many of us are running Linux, BeOS, and even stranger alternatives.
Heh. 'TeeN GeeK'. Would you know a 'real OS' if it walked up to your face and bitch-slapped it?
One of your greasy-faced comrades asked a similar question above. Go hang out in #macintosh for a while and see how many people are already running Linux.
You could try TurboLinux. If you're willing to download, you can use Debian now; although 2.2 should have official PowerPC support in a few months.
Be aware that the Debian crowd are more interested in getting the distro running on marginal hardware (Amigas and AIX boxes) than they are in getting it to run on Macs. And don't hold your breath for inexpensive CDs from CheapBytes, either.
What is MacWorld doing???
MacOS X has a Mach microkernel, WebObjects, Openstep, Apache and Steve Job's superior NeXT technology and engineers!
Why bother with an inferior home-brew Linux when we Mac users will have the SUPERIOR OS with the SUPERIOR graphic interface?
The Linux on PowerMac is just your typical Pee-Cee lusers trying to fragment our superior OS and technology.
I just cannot believe MacWorld is selling us Mac users out!
(this space is intentionally left blank)
MacOS X won't be free and it will keep stuff from the old versions so therefore it will suck!
Simple! The Mac OS X is only for the small departamental severs. It does not scale beyond 1 CPU. Very Lame! Mac World know that!
If I read their official circulation figures correctly, MacWorld's average monthly readership in 1998 was over 650,000 total (includes paying subscribers, newstand purchasers, and complementary copies).
d .698.pdf
I believe this is for the USA version alone.
http://macworld.zdnet.com/marketing/pdf/Macworl
It sounds a bit to me you're trying to give Macintosh users a bad name be acting like a foolish Mac user.
The fact you posted anonymously doesn't help much either, if you really are a Macintosh user.
To everyone else, please do not fall for this idiot's trick to make you hate Apple and Mac users more than you already do (if you do).
I worked alot to make it work(Live) I wanted to put something on there for the average user to see something. wish I could have gotten gnome, but there wasn't much time. It's my small part to help get Linux to mac people. I read the other comments here, had to laugh at the "use mac X" one :)
Anonymouse coward jcarr@linuxppc.org
ps - yes R5 is delayed longer. sorry to everyone who is waiting so long.... I was at netscape after linuxworld - more news soon... there is a new set of pre-R5 packages for those interested on ftp.linuxppc.org
I will buy a copy of LinuxPPC as soon as it supports HFS+ (including booting from HFS+). The only think holding me back from installing Linux is that I'm too lazy to partition my hard drive. It's an HFS+ drive, so Live won't even work. Live really isn't what I want anyway - I want to have full capabilites.
Are you up to the challenge? I would definitely buy it, and I would spread the word...
...Is there any way to remedy that?
:)
CAUTION: Newbie Alert.
I'd love to play Poker whilst listening to some tunes.
KDE looks great and the BootX feature rocks... I'd still like to maybe wait for the glibc2 support before I order it, though.
Any suggestions for the
CD Rom?
(This space is intentionally left blank)
However by putting in this annoucement it is no longer blank...so more correctly they should print:
(This space intentionaly left blank-sans this informal message)
Just my two cents......anyway I am silly as usual.
Think about the similarities between the Gay and Mac using populations:
Accounts for10 percent of the population, although detractors would like everyone to think it's much less than that.
Tendancy towards creative occupations, i.e. publishing, visual arts, music, fashion design.
Hipper, more stylish than the "Straights"; ahead of the curve regarding major cultural trends
Impeccable color sense.
typical macintosh artist very interested in trying this real OS.
---
remember...
we "think different"
Hmmm, I have a Mac128k still running... Do you have _any_ pc's from 1984 that still work?
Do you really want to talk about hardware envy? I have built-in scii on every pre-iMac, and built-in firewire on the G3's.
It is foolish comments like yours which continue to generate animosity between the Mac users and the rest of us. I also have an K6 233 running Linux, but it is still not capable of out-performing my 200Mhz ppc Mac in things like photoshop or illustrator. Not b/c of the os, but b/c of the hardware. Really, get a clue... You get what you pay for.
Hell, I have an XT (81? 80?) still running.
As for built in SCSI, I go buy a good motherboard. Built in SCSI. Next?
Agreed! RedHat should do that!
Sure it's easy to partition or get a cheap Gig drive, but what about ppl who don't have tape drives (or Jaz, et al)? Personally, I have a Zip drive - and it would take forever to back up my 4GB drive on all those disks.
Also remember that the easier it is to get Linux, the more it will spread. If anyone (well, at least any Mac user - I dunno if/what FAT support is like) can simply run an installer and *poof* - there's Linux (without losing the other OS), I'd bet a lot of other ppl would try it.
how about getting off your duff and helping put
HFS+ support in it, eh?
Good job. Must be fun to have so many copies of something you created out on newstands (my work is pretty deeply embedded). Sounds like a more than a few people have tried it, and are thirsting for more.
x
Looky here lamer, SCSI-2 FAST is better then lame onboard IDE, and there's such thing called PCI slots/cards? also.. you must be the kind that compares a peice of crap self built machine to a workstation..
lamer.
Of course there's no LinuxPPC for Yosemite Macs, so if you want to run LinuxPPC, you probably had better find an Imac or an archaic PPC Mac. I find this to be a pretty big disappointment since I am forced to use a g3 at work, and since comparatively little Open Source software, which I have come to find very useful (and to which I have contributed some of my time and source code) has been ported to the Mac.
I'm nursing the pet theory that the FSF got kickbacks from Bill Gates and Co. in order to help inconvenience those who use the Mac platform by the FSF's enacting their silly boycott a few years ago. Reading the holier-than-thou FSF rhetoric on the subject (e.g. in the GNU Emacs faq) has pretty much convinced me--is anyone else reminded of Micro$oft press releases? Coincidence? I think not.
Hell, if I were a real Mac user, there's no way I'd side with the Open Source bigots.
I bet it was easy to make though - just use a black and white apple logo, magic wand it in Photoshop, then use something like the Eye Candy "glass" plugin and instant flashy logo.
Systems with recent versions of the AWARD BIOS will boot from CD - as far as booting Windows, well, the NT install CDROM is bootable, 95 CD is not, no idea about 98. The FreeBSD install CD is bootable - as is, I imagine, most (some?) Linux distros. If "who's shipping systems" was intended to mean big cloners like Compaq, Dell, etc - well, I don't know. You normally find the AWARD BIOS on the various Taiwan made mobos (ASUS, Abit, etc.)
If you buy/loan me on of those nifty Yosemite machines we can have a chance to get them working. The problem is that none of the developers have those machines, and we can't afford to buy them until R5 is released.
--LinuxPPC Developer
That obviously was a troll bait posting, but several misconceptions should be addressed:
Of course there's no LinuxPPC for Yosemite Macs, so if you want to run LinuxPPC, you probably had better find an Imac or an archaic PPC Mac.
Of course there's no Linux for the *latest* Mac hardware because it takes time for the LinuxPPC developers to reverse-engineer Apple's proprietary and secret specifications... However, from the excellent job LinuxPPC.org has done so far, it won't be too long.
BTW, it's easier to port to other platforms (x86, Alpha, PA-RISC) because the necessary specs are usually published (to attract *MORE* ports to sell *MORE* hardware) and are available in any good engineering school library.
I'm nursing the pet theory that the FSF got kickbacks from Bill Gates and Co. in order to help inconvenience those who use the Mac platform by the FSF's enacting their silly boycott a few years ago.
Silly boycott??? I'm no FSF fanatic but think about the consequences on *all* other graphic environments had Apple won that 'look and feel' lawsuit against MS and HP! It is quite possible that Motif/CDE, free desktop environment or window manager developers could have been next.
And to even fathom that Apple would try such a stunt; can you say a sick attempt at monopoly and IP?
heard of AGP 2x?
Obviously the first AC was just sour about the apparent lack of LinuxPPC on her new hardware. I can sympathize with her since I use a blue g3 Mac at work and I can't run LinuxPPC on it either. (One of the reasons for getting a Mac in the first place was the existence of LinuxPPC. Too bad the folks in charge of equipment acquisitions didn't get me an older g3 Mac. My order got delayed and I got stuck with a stupid blue g3 instead). :(
I don't think the FSF's boycott really changed any suits' minds in Cupertino. An unfortunate side effect of the boycott though is that the Mac platform, with its strong and passionate following, misses the opportunity to take part in the open source movement. It's hard to recognize the value in something you don't use, and so a generation of mac programmers, developers, and users will not be touched by the principles that underly the FSF and open source. Whether the boycott, for all its storied symbolic value, was worth this toll only time can tell.
Flame away - I'm wearing asbestos underwear.
This is the first time I've used Linux. Can I get online
with Live? How? Or where can I find info to help me?
Also, can I run Linux apps that aren't included with
Live? Why can't I get some of the games to work.
Thanks to everyone who worked on this CD bootable
version. Very cool. I've been wanting to try Linux
but didn't have a partition available.
Apple Computer listen up.. donate hardware for LinuxPPC developers.. appreciate the OS you never produced.
can hose anyone even when you did the waiting to compile and run compilde binary. It might be easier and more worthwhile getting stabler Mozilla builds for including mozilla-sources.tar.gz :) if you need to provide Communicater as upgrade after!
You need to contact Pacific HiTech maybe they will realise the market.. Yellowdog Linux is not. There is TurboLinux 2.x for PowerPC release. It included LinuxPPC and Mk-Linux DR3 on cds.. and lots more! Website is http://www.turbolinux.com/
It boots on an iMac even. http://www.au.netbsd.org/Changes/source-changes.ht ml and ftp mirror URL ftp://ftp2.au.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-current /
http://www.au.netbsd.org/Documentation/index.html http://nandra.iri.co.jp/NetBSD/macppc.html and mailing list archive URL http://mail-index.netbsd.org/mlist/port-macppc/
Thank you! It is nice to see Apple hardware put to new and different thinking use :)
Once of the reasons you can't get LinuxPPC on Blue G3s is because the XFree 86 does not support the ATI video card in those macs (it is standart on all models). You are not the only one who suffers from this. There might be PC users as well who can not use XFree with that card on PCs .. The x server is under development I heard though
I don't think those two points are as important as you think. Consider:
:)
1. Yes, I understand that x86 is still a useful choice for many people. Unless they absolutely must run Windows for one specific application for which there is no alternative on any other platform, though, I doubt it's the best choice. It's amazing how many people buy hardware and software without realizing the alternatives to them. Linux as an OS suffers from this problem just like Motorola/IBM PPC hardware.
2. Read the post you responded to again: it specifically mentions PowerPC motherboards that fit into ATX cases made by motorola. Isn't that exactly what you're looking for? Off-the-shelf components you can assemble yourself. You got it. So you have to buy a motherboard specific to your processor... big deal. Same fragmentation is now occurring in the x86 market, so that's hardly a step down. (Consider Slot 1 vs. Socket 7 vs. Socket 6 vs. the new Celeron socket etc. etc. etc.) There's also a published standard (two, actually: PReP and CHRP) to help make sure your hardware is going to work together.
While I don't think your points are invalid, I urge you to take a second look at how viable other chip architectures are now that Linux has bridged the software gap between them. Yes, the poster to whom you responded oversimplified the situation, but then look at who HE was responding to.
I, for one, can't wait until Motorola, Compaq/Alpha, and Sun finally put that old dog of a chipmaker where it belongs.
I think you're underestimating Motorola-based hardware right now.
Does that mean that buying a G3 or an Alpha workstation todayis a smarter buy than buying an x86 workstation today?
Perhaps. Ask Digital Domain, the guys who did the rendering on Titanic, why they didn't use x86 hardware.
Ask anyone who runs a Pro Tools digital audio workstation (the de facto benchmark for DAW hardware and software) what platform they're using it on.
It depends on the application. You know this. The person to whom you responded knew this. Many people simply don't shop around for the best tool for the job any more (need I mention the Navy's smart ship fiasco?). This doesn't change what really is and is not the best tool for a given job.
by the time Intel+AMD can't scale x86 anymore (2005?), your old 1999 G3/Alpha will be pretty much obsolete, except to run 1999-era software.
I put that estimate of non-scalability at 2000, not 2005. Motorola chips have a history of longevity, too, I might add: the 68000 is still one of the most popular controllers for embedded applications out there. Old macs running way early versions of Claris Works are still being used to write great literature. I know an old Apple laptop with a 117mhz processor on a 33mhz bus, turning in twice the rc5 keys of the Intel-based Linux server next to it with a 200 mhz processor on a 100 mhz bus. Look at the platform that continually wows non-users by its longevity without vendor support: the Amiga. Based on Motorola chips, it was designed and built so well that years after the parent company disappeared, third parties and end users are still dedicated enough to keep the platform alive. Although the market share was unequal in Intel's favor in the mid and late eighties, the number of machines from that era still working show a decidedly opposite trend that clearly shows which architecture was better designed.
It's like telling someone not to buy a 1999 Mustang because the 2004 Camero is going to kick it's ass. Think about it.
Well, if you're going to shop for a car with a proven track record that you want to remain reliable and effective for the longest period of time, and give you the most effectiveness for your money, are you going to buy a Volkswagen or a Kia? Think about it.
I know BeOS is supposed to be able to boot from CD, but I have never been able to get it to work with either R3 or R4 from IDE or SCSI (Adaptec 2940) bootable CD-ROM drives.
Other bootable CD's work fine on these systems (like RedHat 5.2).
Any PC these days should be capable of booting from CD.
my fellow a.c.: let LinuxPPC inc. get some new Blue G3 machines to the developers. are you upset that new hardware isn't supported the second it comes out? if so, that's a pretty unrealistic expectation, considering that linuxppc gets no help from apple. (the yellow dog people seem to, which is unsettling. vapor vendors beget vapor venders, i guess.)
i talked to them at linuxworld, and they said they're going to be getting blue g3s to key developers soon. remember, the original g3s didn't work right away, either, and the firmwares in those were really bad. it wasn't till Bootx that people could boot the beige G3s from the internal hard disk!
what's up with that? they're pushing the yellow people, but haven't given an inch of credit or promotion to turboLinux, or Primetime Freeware, the guy who does the mklinux distro. *or* linuxppc.
why the special treatment? a lot of people who did a lot of work to get linux to where it's at on powerpc are getting ignored and stepped on.
(Hope not anyway! :)
Sounds like the guy in that story should have waited for the LinuxPPC Live demo. :)
He would have immediately seen that the dreaded "learning curve" he wished to avoid is in fact virtually non-existant.
I can make my dick snap its fingers.
Yeah, & according to the list it's nearly working on the new blue G3's.
Can't wait until NetBSD boots on my C600 (cheap ppc clone); but 'til then I'm happy with NetBSD on the $40 Mac IIsi on the shelf, NetBSD on the $10 DECstations stacked on the stereo, and NetBSD on the $5 VAX in the bedroom (whose cabinet opens better than the G3's :-)
MS-free and Intel-free....
Do not buy ATI!
http://cvs-mirror.mozilla.org/webtools/tinderbox/s howbuilds.cgi?tree=SeaMonkey-Ports
I agree with the previous poster....Mozilla now!
MS-free and Intel-free..... well read the NetBSD license :-)
You're forgetting 2 things.
:) ) anyday over a G3. But if i can do G3 systems like i do x86 systems today, they I'll join ya in G3 world. I'll won't run that lousy thing called macos, however...
1) powerpc is a better arch, yes, but x86 is not dead by any means. clunky? yes. Lots of baggage included? yes. But still a better choice of arch for me, and many others I suspect... because of..
2) Show me where I can get a G3 chip + mb + case, etc... until G3 has the exposure, and the ability to build/replace as I have now, it's worthless. Locked into one chip, made by one company, no matter how good the chip is, is a bad idea. Give me Intel, AMD, cyrix(ok, bad choice...
David
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1) slot incompatiblitys are no big deal... i've been dealing with them since before 386's, and i will no doubt continue to...
:) And I know G3 is non-apple hardware, yes, i seem to recall amiga also using them... but I can't get G3's from all the same places I can get x86 now. Yea, I'll be glad when I can get superior hardware the same way i get the inferior stuff now... but till I can walk into my local parts store and get G3's and such like pentiums and k6's now, i don't have much of a choice.....
2) To the best of my knowledge, Motorola makes G3's, and i do trust motorola.. but i don't trust a chip made by a single h/w vendor... call it burned to many times by intel.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
David
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About a year ago, I got a BIOS update for my three-year-old Packard Bell, and booting from CD was one of the things added. (They use AMI as their BIOS base.) If a Packard Bell can do it, any couputer ought to be able to.
--Phil (And no complaints about the computer. If I knew then what I know now...)
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
MacOS X will not cost over $100.
MacOS X Server will be $1,000.
Now we're nothing.
It's far easier to forgive your enemy after you get even with him.
Ya ya ya, whatever... if it's for integrated hardware, I have a p5/100 with SCSI and Ethernet on the planarboard, along with both PCI and EISA. And it feels just as fast as the p5/233MMX I have on my desk at work (which runs NT - *shudder*).
Besides, who's comparing home-built machines to workstations here? Most Macs don't fit my definition of "workstation".
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
Intel SE440BX motherboard (AMI BIOS I think) boots El-torito nicely.
"L'IT c'est moi!"
I can think of 995 reasons. Probably closer to 945 reasons. I realize that the workstation version of OS X won't cost that much but it also won't have WebObjects. I won't argue with the superior graphic interface. The superior OS depends strongly on the application an budget.
"L'IT c'est moi!"
I got mine in the mail several weeks ago. Other than the Unix/Linux articles (most of which I already knew) and blasting NT as a file server, the issue was a complete waste.
And now I learn that the newstand version had LinuxPPC included. You can forget about me renewing my subscription. What a waste. Now the debate: Do I buy the newstand verion and toss the mag... Any other magazines including LinuxPPC CDs? MacTech?
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
OK, there are are a few things about that program:
1) It only works on SCSI disks. If you have Linux installed on an IDE drive you're out of luck as far as I know.
2) DO NOT use it to write to an ext2 filesystem. While it can theoretically do this, it's very risky to do so; the bugs aren't all worked out yet and while you might be able to get it all right you can also corrupt the filesystem.
If you need to get something from a Mac disk to the Linux side of things, use Linux's HFS utilities (which face problems with writing to HFS disks not unlike the problems LinuxDisks has with writing to ext2 volumes). You can also just use FTP if you have sufficient space somewhere.
3) Just a point of interest: it also works on BFS (BeOS File System) drives.
4) I'm afraid I don't know where to find the latest version; its homepage was taken down a while back and nobody seems to know where it moved. Anybody know that one?
I'd also like to see a win32 app capable of mounting ext2 volumes in read/write mode... I know it exists for Mac...
-- Are you an EFF member yet?
One must open their eyes to see. Open them.
he is, ya know
"G" is the most important letter in "GNU"!
GNU = Gnu is Not Unix
On the other hand...
LINUX = Linux Is Not UniX - That might work...
--> Any fool can criticize - and many do --
At least they could have an update log a la Alan Cox...
--ThoraX695
Great! Now if they could only get R5 out sometime soon. I've been waiting for the new release rather than updating the KDE beta-1 packages that MkLinux ships with. It's getting to the point where none of the new KDE apps will compile on my system.
/. it. Thanks!
Speaking of which, I'd appreciate it if people could take a look at my site of RPMs for LinuxPPC and MkLinux. (KDE apps and some other stuff.) I've been seeing a bunch of failed downloads in the log and hoping I could get some feedback on what's happening. Warning - it's temporarily running on a IIci with NetPresenz while my Linux box is being repaired so it won't take much to
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
It's a sign of the times. Solid color's are modern, they're in. That's why there are five different colors of iMac's, not one five colored iMac. This isn't the yippie Apple that we once knew.
--
_____
| MAD |
| |
| HAT |
---------
"The difference between genius and stupid is that genius has its limits." -- Unknown
Your "typical" Mac user is not going to be any more out of water than a Windows user, given a Linux CD.
Linux is more prevailent on x86 not only because there are simply more x86 systems... but also because a number of wintel users are simply not satisfied with their environment. One COULD argue that had Appple won the desktop wars Linux would not be what it is today... necessity fuels innovation. (Necessity being defined as needing something "different" in a very general sense... not needing GNU, needing command-line, etc.)
When I get a Mac to replace the one I sold off (sniff!) it's getting Linux. There's a lot of hacker types on the mac side as well.. they're not graduates from the America Online School Of Computer Illiteracy. When I had my Mac I loved running BeOS. I only wish SheepShaver evisted at the time, so I could run MacOS apps from within a be environment.
Of course, today OS X went GM so you'll get UNIX + MacOS all in one..
Macintouch.com has a story of the new 460 MHz PowerPC chips from IBM, and how some users are overclocking these babies all the wauy to ** 550 MHz ** and they still don't overheat. I think beyond that, the cache RAM becomes unstable, but heat isn't as much an issue as it is with poorlydesigned Intel chips...
I keep hearing these wonderful things the LinuxPPC group is doing. They really are doing excellent work, considering as a non-x86 Linux distro they are "swimming AGAINST the tide".
:)
I'd love to see Motorolla/IBM sell PowerPC components. Unfortunately the market is against this, since a manufacturer won't piddle about with small orders. Motorolla isn't even sure if they want to fight Intel anymore, since Wintel is a solid duopoly. It seems like Mot is drifting towards DSP/"embedded" territory, which is probably why we keep hearing rumors of an eventual MacOS on Merced chip. Merced has the potential to help Apple, since their big disadvantage has always been 'to run MacOS you need different hardware'... and most people are reluctant to switch hardware platforms EVEN if they regret their initial choice.
Maybe the PPC Linux group, being a larger entitity than a few of us here, can secure some hardware for resale. I'm buying a G3 this summer, but I'll also buy a more generic G3 system for Linux if I can ever find one.
I'd love to see G3's take on the market. I want a new Mac, networked to a generic Linux box. If I can get a G3 Linux box I will be much happier, but I don't want to waste a more expensive Apple system on my Linux server. (troll bait here...)
MacOS X should be a great thing for competition. Yes, it's a "closed UNIX" like Solaris, but ANY version of UNIX is a hundred times more open than NT! Methinks someday Apple will take advantage of Linux and sell turnkey Linux systems. If Linux *really* catches on they will have an easier time adapting BSD/MacOS-X to Linux than Microsoft (who won't even have a product ready for UNIX, never mind their dead OS
Or worse yet... built-in help!
ready Jerry Pournole's (I know it's spelled incorrectly) new column in BYTE. UNIX should be slim and trim, but it CAN do things cheaply like load help files from within the program. Yes a unix user knows ho to switch between background and foreground I know I know... that's not my point.
How many Linux manpages have been neglected, or tell you to instead consult the infopage or readme instead. RTFM is not a problem for me but it's annoying to be forwarded to yet another doc (with no "link" in the doc to make it automatic). And if you REALLY want to understand the help, you'll have an xterm open to EACH documentation resource.
Microsoft was onto something when they copied the Mac.
Actually, I was talking to a friend right after Bondi Blue came out, and said "Wouldn't it be just great if they had some other colors? Like purple."
"Who'd buy purple?"
Biggest selling color after blue.
teleny, friend of cats.
BeOS users know how ya feel man. Now if linuxppc only worked on G3's then you could say conspiracy. (MacOSX only works on G3's)
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an open source OS on proprietary hardware. Perfct combination :)
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EEK! I've been looking for an app that can do that for my Mac!
Do you know what Mac app can do that?
HFS+ support is in the works, people. Apple has presented us with the specs, it will released probally during the summer of '99.
Live installs sucks anyways. Get off your duff, and do a quick reformat / partion. It's not that hard, it can be done!
My partioning scheme:
1 gig - HFS+ (Mac System, Mac Apps and a few mac-only documents)
450 meg - HFS (My documents and other crap including way to many old versions of GNOME and lots of source code)
50 meg - Linux Swap / Virtual Memory Space for Linux.
500 meg - Linux main partion.
This works good for me. It's fast and full feature.
GET LINUXPPC NOW - ftp.linuxppc.org !
The April edition of Macworld has an article that presents an overview of Unix (it is not yet posted at macworld.com). As most of you know, MacOSX will be based on the Mach kernel and BSD4.4. This story therefore serves to introduce the Mac user to this "new" OS.
/. features a link to this when it eventually gets posted at macworld.com (hmmm, maybe I shouldn't be writing this).
I found the article to be well written (at times), and also funny; funny like in haha and sad. Let's just say that there will be the normal Apple flaming if
Now close your eyes and imagine what a story about Unix for a typical Mac user would look like.
Oh I forgot, Go LinuxPPC!! Where's my Release 5 CD!:-)
As an opportunity to get some cheap shots at
Microsoft and/or Intel, as they did in this story
on their website.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
Oh, I don't know about that. I've got a lot of shiny plastic coasters, but none of them are from MacWorld :-) Linux has been getting a lot of press in the Mac community lately, I suspect that a fair number of people will try it.
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
I got a full install of LinuxPPC working before I got LinuxPPC Live working. If it's anything like BootX/Linux PPC combo, then it'' do a full reboot and unload all of the Mac OS. A quick check at http://www.linuxppc.com/ doesn't tell me much more.
Anybody actually used the thing ?
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
Who's shipping systems with an El-Torito compatible BIOS ?I haven't seen a Wintel box that could actually do this yet. I haven't looked very hard, but none of the half-dozen production environments I've worked in have had one.
:-). http://www.nikko.simplenet.com/goldentime/bootcd1b .htm is nicely technical. There must be more out there somewhere
This sin't a flame folks, I am sincerely interested in which manufacturers are shipping boot-cd compatible BIOS chips (salsa optional). My web research turned up more info on *nix boot CDs than Dos/Win boot CDs (no Mac info, but we've had that capability for years, and on shipping systems to boot
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
This isn't a true installation of LinuxPPC. As I understand it, it's a single very large MacOS file containing an image of a Linux ext2 filesystem with Linux loaded. A user would boot under MacOS, and then run a LinuxPPC "Live" application that would map in the contents of that file as a volume, unload most of the MacOS, and "boot" from that file. Not exactly a power-user kind of Linux, but it is a good way to introduce general users to Linux without making them go through the learning curve and commitment of repartitioning a hard drive. I'd like to see Red Hat and others pick up this idea to attract Windows users.
But then you run into the problem of everyone having their CD drives in different places. i.e. mine is /dev/hdc (IDE 2 drive 1) my roommates is on /dev/hdd (IDE 2 drive 2). My Mac at home has a SCSI CD-rom, my old box has a noname CD that plugs into the soundcard (with a proprietary interface). And so on, ad nauseum, et cetera...
0 1 - just my two bits
Two questions:
Can I put the live file on an HFS+ volume ?
Can it be a DHCP client ?
It's being worked on. Since most people aren't huge slackers who are too lazy to reformat their drives or too cheap to pluck down $20-$40 bucks or so for a gig drive, it's not a top priority.
--"In dreams begin responsibilities" - Delmore Schwartz
That's one pretty slick looking icon, but what about our heritage!?! C'mon, you'd really choose that iMaccy glossy lookin' thing over the beautiful rainbow colors of the IIe era logo?! Everyone is insane, I tells ya! Everyone!
Of course if they DID make a iMac in all five colors, that would either be really cool looking or really gay looking. An opaque iMac in the Apple II color would be quite nifty though...
I talked to the TurboLinux folks at Linuxworld Expo. They said they expect 3.x out in about a month. I, for one, am looking forward to it. Wish they'd get their marketing asses in gear, though! Their promotion is pretty pathetic. I mean, you ask anyone semi-knowledgeable what PPC-based Linux distros are available, and they'll answer, "MkLinux and LinuxPPC". TurboLinux is almost a secret.
--Tom
Tom Geller
AC writes:
"If I read their official circulation figures correctly, MacWorld's average monthly readership in 1998 was over 650,000 total"
A small, technical correction: 650,000 is their circulation, not their readership. In publishing jargon, "readership" = circulation x number of people who read each copy. The latter number is a combination of the biggest number the marketroids can think of, SWAGs (strategic, wild-ass guesses) and something to do with the entrails of a goat.
--Tom, ex-editor for MacWEEK and others
Tom Geller
OK, the PowerPC and Alpha might have life spans ranging 10 years from today, whereas the x86 might have 5 years tops.
Does that mean that buying a G3 or an Alpha workstation todayis a smarter buy than buying an x86 workstation today?
I think not -- by the time Intel+AMD can't scale x86 anymore (2005?), your old 1999 G3/Alpha will be pretty much obsolete, except to run 1999-era software.
It's like telling someone not to buy a 1999 Mustang because the 2004 Camero is going to kick it's ass. Think about it.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
So x86 isn't the best processor for all applicaitons. Big Deal - neither is any other processor. Nor do I care about Titanic rendering or RC5 cracking, because those are very specialized applications that I don't do. (I do a little audio, and the tools are all on x86 too.)
You're right about the historical longevity of Macs and Mac applications. I use a Quadra 950 (1990) from time-to-time with Netscape 4 and MS Word 6.0. However, that's a testament to the system design, not the CPU. (People write novels on 386s with WordPerfect 5.1 too.)
Most Mac users I know don't give a crap about what the CPU is called. Those of you advocates who have been repeatedly told since 1993 that sooner or later PPC is going to scale way past x86 were lied to. Maybe in a few years, but not yet, so get over with it.
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Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
It is very hard to make sure that you enter a 32bit OS properly after you have already booted Windows. You do not know who and how initialized which sloppy bugware driver... Still it does worth trying. Having a linux autorun boot would be fun. I imagine some people's faces on this one...
Anyway even something startable from dos is not a bad idea...
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
I tried the LinuxPPC disk on a number of machines before it hit me to start the Mac with extensions off. It did start on one machine without doing so.
It's a beautiful demo. Can't wait to get KDE for my Intel machines. Just waiting for SUSE 6.1..., and now I've added LinuxPPC 5.0 to my list of things to buy.
I fully agree. I installed this "live" version on a 6500 this past Friday, toyed with it, then off to a Linux Installfest on Saturday for the full version. The install of the "live" version took about 2 minutes, the install of the full less than 5. I get more impressed everyday.
My FIC VA-503+ does it quite nicely.
btw anyone recall the story behind the El Torito name? There is a chain of mexican restaurants by that name in Southern California (possibly elsewhere).
I see you're using the new apple logo I sent ya. =)
I ripped the logo off a demo machine at the MacWorld Expo, resized it and emailed it in. I don't know if it ships with powerbooks or if it's only for demo machines. As for the old rainbow colored logo, I never put the old Apple stickers on my car since the rainbow colors could too easily be confused with another bumper sticker...
Hardware envy. My machine costs 1/3 less than yours and I can get parts for it anywhere I want to with a wide variety of options. How about you? Mr. Superior OS over there wishing he could find software for his brandnew Macintrash System 8.x
What do you do? Go to MacMall?
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The statement below is true.
Well, I don't know about that. Many of us have been running Tenon Systems mach kernel for years to do unix programming. Don't underestimate an installed base of over 25 millon macintosh machines.
-- I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
Both of their sites have said for ages that the next release would be out in late February or MAYBE early March. Well, it's obviously March. Anybody heard updates/rumors? (I did hear the spiel about Netscape's failure to compile already.) Also, anyone have thoughts on Yellow Dog? They have yet to ship an actual product, but they seemed to get fairly good media coverage. How does it differentiate itself from a repackaged LinuxPPC distro (besides the high price)?
That's great. I pre-ordered R5 quite some time ago. I understand the delays too. There was a message posted on linuxppc.org that those who pre-ordered R5 were going to get a copy of 4.1 sent to them. Hmm, still waiting for that and my T-Shirt as well as some sort of reply to the emails I've sent there. =) I'd ftp 4.1 but every time I look at my poor 56k modem, I laugh.
On another note and sort of off topic... I'm an old Amiga user. My 3000T bit the dust almost two years ago and it took me a year after that to decide on what system/s I should buy. I knew about Linux at the time but stayed away from it because I mainly use my system for music sequencing and recording. I also didn't like the idea of Windows (a matter of preference), as well as the idea that most of the higher end hardware I was interested in wasn't available or supported on Intel based hardware. When the G3's came out, my mind was made up. Not only that, Linux for PPC was making leaps and bounds. So my plan was to get a PowerMac and use the MacOS for things that weren't up to snuff yet in Linux. One reason I like the Linux alternative to Mac or Windows is that I'm not stuck in the GUI. I actually quite like the MacOS now that I've learned it's in and outs (didn't take very long) but it lacks in the area of flexibility. Flexibility was something I was used to on my old Amiga. A CLI or Shell is an imortant thing to me IMHO.
AppleScript can be useful, but only if the app that you're interested in is AppleScriptable.
Anyhow, The more I'm learning by using Linux the more I'm inclined to think that I may not ever really need to use anything else. Functionally and morally speaking.
So I guess I'll go out and find one of these MacWorld mags with LinuxPPC and find out if it's an actual full install or not of R4.
Well then, I'm off to go find out. Heh, that'll teach me for posting before I read the article. It's only the 'LIVE' version. Ah well. =) Time to get ADSL. heh...
- Jase
Thanks... I found the same Faq. It's http://www.dartmouth.edu/~jonh/lppc-serve/cache/1. html . If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have noticed that my right alt/option key was busted. Luckily I have a spare KB. I'll fix it later.
I thought it would have been strange if there wasn't a kb modifier...
- Jase
How about Linux users becoming aware of the Mac?
Zagmar
Just can't see to many mac users jump at the chance to try a real OS.
TeeN GeeK
LinuxPPC live is neat, in that it allows me to boot into KDE and play with the neat toys. Apparently, it also contains Internet tools, although it has no information on how to connect (just a note that kppp doesn't work).
It doesn't contain gcc or ecgs, it won't save changes, and I don't see how to get packages to work. All I can see is that it shows that KDE works on the Mac, which is worth about 30 minutes of enjoyment.
Is there anything more that can be done with LinuxPPC Live? I have preordered 5.0 (only $35, why not?), so I guess it has served its purpose.
MkLinux is dead, Yellow Dog is vapor, OSX Server is too damn much money, Be doesn't work on G3, and Debian PPC and OSX are not out yet, so it seems to be my only choice for Unix goodness.
Ron - trying to get out of the MacOS ghetto
Option-1 and Option-2.
I found this in the LinuxPPC automated FAX, as an aside in response to another question. I don't have the URL handy right now, but you can get there from www.linuxPPC.com.
I have three original IBM PC's. All of them still work. IBM's page here says they were introduced in 1981.
I hope enough people start to run Linux on thier mac that apple will reconsider the thousand dollar price tag for MacOS X. LinuxPPC costs a lot less and offers a lot of value. And add sheepshaver to LinuxPPC, what else do we need? Then we have a real os on our macs.
Apple's always been a fruit. Sheesh.
Was I the only one to nothice LinuxPPC with Macworld on the stands two weeks ago?
I'm in Canada for pete's sake, we get everything waaaaaay later than those south of the border.
John.
You missed the (albeit very subtle) pun.
If you want to understand what he meant, walk up to your nearest co-worker of the female pursuasion, and ask her if she would like to try some macingnulux. Remember, with all such plays on words, it is best to let the syllables fall together.
If you still don't understand, pick up the nearest copy of MS Bookshelf (prefferably one which has pronunciation examples) and search for a similar word that starts with cunning and ends in alot of fun.
John.
See title