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Mega Linux Boxes, and Cheap Ones Too
Couple of interesting developments in Linux hardware lately.
The Linux Store is
selling super cheap linux boxes.
news.com has a story
about them where they proclaim that they will only be advertising
on sites like Slashdot and Freshmeat except that
Scoop doesn't even had ads, and I'd
never heard of them before reading that article. An
actual advertiser (Penguin Computing), however now has a 8 CPU Xeon Box
that runs Linux (of course). First 8 CPU box I've seen running
Linux (which I didn't even know could do 8 way SMP. Although
I've been told of 32 and 64 chip linux boxes in development
by other companies. No I can't name names).
Penguin Computing flat out rocks. Sam Ockman's hardware/software talent was really held back at VA Research and it is really cool to see his talents put to good use at Penguin. His designs are rock solid. Oh and Sam gets jiggy with the Time Warp, too.
The price tag on the system is $100,530. Why not use that money to buy a > 8 cpu cluster for a lot less?
Willy
Now that's one laptop I will order.
Even the 2.2 kernel would have trouble with this and there is no way in hell that 32 or 64 chip systems could run effectively in the 2.2 kernel and especially the 2.0. Solaris x86 or freebsd might be better for this. PLEASE DON"T START A FLAMEWAR! I AM NOT SAYING THAT NT IS BETTER EITHER!I am just giving my opinion since 2.2 has never been fully tested with 8 way cpus and I heard their are still scalability problems compared to the higher end unix's. I would like to see a benchmark comparing solaris and linux on 8 or more cpu's. The Nt vs Unix website has some details onn the old 2.0 kernels. The 2.0 kernells scored the lowest on 4cpu's and above with the other unix's but I know the kernel is old. All the fud you hear about linux always relates to smp compared to solaris and aix. I also use freebsd at work right beside my linux box with the 2.2 kernel and freebsd can handle large loads and network traffic better. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Linux can't handle over 16 cpu's in one machine. Perhaps a cluster though.
there was an interesting article in the latest edition of NT Mag. about some of the kernal issues that need to be ironed out before linux will scale on big-iron.
adding ASYNC I/O to the kernel would sure help.
I thought a big draw to Linux was that it could run on older, cheap, "underpowered" stuff ... and now this? Whatever.
The fastest Intel-based computer available? What a CROCK! Guess the guys at Penguin have never heard of Sequent. Their box might be the fastest thing around running Linux, but I'm pretty sure that Sequent's 16- and 32-processor Xeon boxes will stomp this little girly machine into the ground... Plus, you'll get an OS actually capable of harnessing all that horsepower (not that Linux isn't a fine OS)!
I only use freebsd on a fourway 533mhz alpha system and its faster with freebsd on it then it was with the 2.2 linux kernel. I assume freebsd would outperform linux even more on an 8 way system untill the linux kernel gets more finely tuned. The bsd's have been doing smp longer then linux and are more mature so they are naturally better and mature for smp processing for now. Perhaps version 3 of linux could smp handle well. With increasing popularity linux should have alot more programmers working on it right now then 2 or 3 years ago so this will be accomplished very soon.
Oooh, neat... What's the third most expensive? The monitor? The CPU? Video card?
www.pricewatch.com lists retail versions of NT Workstation between $120 and $220. If Linux generally costs less, does it sometimes cost more?
Look closely at the links on the original article -- The last one points to www.freshmeat.org, not freshmeat.net.
ObEditorializing: I've dealt with CPU Micromart before. They shipped my order four weeks late to the wrong address, and stuck me with about $200 in COD for a product I had already paid for. YMMV, of course, but be warned.
-D
dcross@cryogen.com
I'm happy running it on my 486, 24 meg that I found in a dumpster. No joke. I will not pay even $500 for ANY computer. Not just M$, but the whole fucking industry is a monopoly. NOTHING devalues as quickly, and I confirmed this last night when I found an HD-less Pentium 100 behind a telephone company office. So, maybe I'm upgrading from my 486.
make -j 8 -k ;)
I could also use up all sorts of processing power running Genetic Programming experiments and advanced raytracings.
Michael
?
and is basically a programmer like you and me.
He does software, we use it or we don't.
He has opinions on hardware---we listen or we don't.
Whats the big deal? He created the system---and thank him for that----but stop acting like he's the second coming, ya know?
$650 is not super cheap, but considering the specs, it's a good deal. I'd be hard pressed to build up a comparable box from scratch for that amount...
and is basically a programmer like you and me.
And he probably knows much more about programming and PC architecture than you and I.
It probably uses a card which takes two cpu's and plugs into the slot so you get two cpu's in each slot. I forget what the cards are called.
How many people here would be interested in low cost ($500) PCs running Linux? I have been having some ideas on doing this with highly integrated motherboards, compact cases and such. It would not be very expandable but fairly complete to start with and have Linux preconfigured onto it.
I'm just trying to get a feeling if most Linux folks prefer high powered (yet expensive) servers or still have an interest in low cost workstations.
An example of what I found there a few days ago - an AMD K-6/2 400, 32 MB ram, 3.2 GB hard drive, blah blah blah....with Linux _pre-installed_ for $415!
Yeah, that was the cheapest. But they have LOTS of 'em in the $400-500 range with Linux already installed.
Go see.
it's not true. freebsd smp implementation is worse than sunos 4.1.x, which basically stuck a huge lock around everything.
linux is far more scalable.
don't believe the bs the other replier is saying.
he's lying through his keyboard.
oooooh. :P
hello, pacman
The Enterprise 10000 of a certain University in Utah isn't enough for their implementation of Peoplesoft.
In this case, however, less Peoplesoft might be a better solution than more hardware.
I can verify that IBM has successfully SMPed 16 processors under Linux - saw a video taped demo with my own eyes. I can't recall for sure but I think it was Alpha-based.
I don't know what a MicroATX is but I did find a ATX board with video, audio and ethernet built-in which was all supported with Linux based on the specs. I can't remember the name right now but I have been trying to get one to try out. They even make a custom case for it with USB and audio access from the front of the case for convenience. The whole thing was a small desktop case with enough room for 1 floppy, 1 hard drive and one cdrom drive. The case was a nice design too unlike many el-cheepo stuff I have seen.
Do you know what kind of margins one needs to survive in this business? I am seriously looking into starting a low cost Linux PC business but would like a source of info to see if it is economically viable.
Look here: http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/yow.html for a nice dmesg
Look here for a nice dmesg... :-)
Thats not true. I thought Ockman has a girlfriend in Chile or Brazil who is in school (I would assume she can't be working for Ockman).
BTW, does Penguin actually have the box shipping, I thought they only had a few (less than a dozen) employees, and not capable of something like this?
hmm. ever read up about transmeta?
give him credit for having a lot more of a clue than pretty much everyone here.
-d
8-way just won't work on the PIII Xeon yet - needs the Profusion chipset, supposed to be done something like this summer
8-way works fine on the PII Xeon tho - i was reading Intel's website
my AMD K6/300 gets 598 bogoMIPS
with asynchronous I/O the kernel thread issues its I/O request and then goes off and does useful work while the rest of the system is gathering up the data.
under 2.2, the kernel's thread issues an I/O request and then goes into the WAITING-FOR-I/O state -- which is a bit of a drag because any other service that invokes this thread will not get anything done until the first I/O request completes.
speaking as someone who has done a fair amount of hacking on real time applications (i.e. pre-emptive, multi-threaded, multi-tasking kind-o-stuff) i can say that you just got to have Async I/O if you want to handle lot's of packets.
most versions of UNIX have this feature (so does NT).
you're basically correct.
the 440NX supports only 4 CPUs on a single mother board. if you want to have 8 CPUs then you need to connect 2 quad motherboards together by plugging in a cluster-extender into the 5th "CPU" slot (or wait for the ProFusion chip set (or use the chip set from Axel (or bang together some 4-processor quads for Sequent or NCR (or design your own, like Unisys)))).
this is how Fujitsu biulds 8 way machines.
in fact, i think that this is the Fujitsu box -- well that's my guess based on the picture on the web site. the Fujitsu front panel looks just like the one on this box.
Rocks what?
Sam Ockman's hardware/software talent was really held back at VA Research and it is really cool to see his talents put to good use at Penguin.
Sam, stop posting...its bad enough you write for the same company (and of the same quality) as that which signs the checks for Jesse berst
His designs are rock solid.
So is concrete
Oh and Sam gets jiggy with the Time Warp, too.
*shrug*
well, none of the benchmarks seem to agree with you but i wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of a perfectly good theory.
The people who post to resellerratings.com are not a representative sample of the population. In fact it is often bad luck with a hardware purchases that will entice someone to surf around for a shop like that.
Also , someone who has a run-of-the-mill purchase experience usually will not post a comment. Partly because a purchase where everything goes OK doesn't say that much about a company. The people who post comments fall into two categories:
(a)
you're basically correct.
the 440NX supports only 4 CPUs on a single mother board. if you want to have 8 CPUs then you need to connect 2 quad motherboards together by plugging in a cluster-extender into the 5th "CPU" slot (or wait for the ProFusion chip set (or use the chip set from Axel (or bang together some 4-processor quads for Sequent or NCR (or design your own, like Unisys)))).
this is how Fujitsu biulds 8 way machines.
in fact, i think that this is the Fujitsu box -- well that's my guess based on the picture on the web site. the Fujitsu front panel looks just like the one on this box.
created my favorite OS. Big deal.
Thank You Mr. Torvalds!!
Now go away and let me compute in peace and quiet. Why deify him?
Please....he's **coding** there too! What makes him an autority on hardware?
CPU arcitechture I might give him...nothing else though.
You can send quite alot of packets on a 8 to 4 way smp system with alot of hits. Get a 2 way cpu or better system and put freebsd on it and benchmark it and then put linux on it and benchmark it. Freebsd is better. Sorry guys. Please dont start a flame war over this. I am just reporting the performance I have experienced with both os's. If slashdot would of used freebsd instead of linux, Rob would of never had to throw out his dual 266 mhz pentium2.
Why deify him?
Who else are you gonna deify?
I got a peek at it at LWCE...it didn't look like a beta. Seemed to work really well. Not sure what I could use it for (outside of Oracle), but tre cool nonetheless
why deify ANYONE?
! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT"S A FRIGGIN OS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Penguin Computing sucks..Why do I get the feel this is a sleazy operation..This is MHO after reading all this stuff and their stupid press releases ...Grow up OkraBoy
It is an Intel Box.
Funny all these jokers selling Linux only do not build their motherboards..That goes for Penguin and VA both..
So when it comes to support just hold your hands to the sky and pray!!
Considering how much VA and Penguin is raking in..I think you can not only survive but beat them..Just do what they do..Slap a motherboard in to a box..and you can give the customer support as much as they do..
Again...the CPU and it's INTERNAL workings. Not quad systems and bus speed and blah blah blah
IF the hardware is any good, the Webzter at $299
for a Cyrix 6x86 MII @ 300 Mhz, integrated video
and sound, 3.2 Gig HD and 32 Meg RAM w/Win98 and
Corel WordPerfect 8 Office Suite. Add a $30 NIC
and a $25 CD-ROM and you are good to go!
Of course, you won't have the fastest machine on
the block, but after you sell the Win98 CD-ROM
to offset the $75 Shipping charge you are sitting
pretty for less than $400 (and that includes 12
months of EarthLink dial-up service).
Not too bad... IMHO.
So if Comapq, Dell and IBM design and build their own motherboards, and if they are better than any available in the market for sale...
..Me think hardley any. The same board VA slaps in I could buy..a lot cheaper. ..ha at open source price...:-)..
.....Then what you are saying is not true. RIGHT!!. Because we are not getting the best in the market..Is that True??
Hey, there is more to building computers than slapping pieces together. If you do not believe me go do a tour of a IBM, DELL and Compaq design center. The difference between VA and a geek building a computer
Then I could optimise the kernel and tweek everything else to suit me
I am getting the sickening feeling that some in the LINUX community think we do not know what is going on
BTW, Half page reply looks like a cluless advertisment
Eric,
For the bottom to fall out of your theory..all we
need is a good Linux distribution for the masses.
And if KDE or Genome grow up to mount that
CD-R it will be as easy as windoze..but with no crashes..
See, then what is the difference between slapped together system by you guys and el-cheapo system for $200. See where the arrow is pointing..
I think we are at the point where, either Linux will become user friendly for the avaerage Joe..and the average Joe will not be held hostage by VA, Penguin or LHS or it will become a highly defined platform for which custom hadwae will be needed.
Though I hate windoze, trust me they will be there...But I am begining to see a pattern with VA, Penguin and LHS and other so called *Linux* guys trying to spin lot more than few strange *stories*. Todays kids have played with computers as long as you have..but they are lot more younger and more willing to build there own stuff
Eric,
Basic limitation is how to share processors...
How to assign a (OS) process or thread to a single processor or several processors..how to task switch..how to make sure chip set registers are not overwritten by accident
How to make sure your L1, L2 cashe is coherent..
Looks like all these *LINUX* guys are as clueless
about hardware as the average Joe is..
IBM where are you when we need you!!!
Penguin Computing & Micro-TheLinuxStore both suck. Penguin sucks because their prices are ridiculously high. TheLinuxSotre sucks, because they don't support their own products they sell, and are peddling crap -- I've bought from their parent company once, and man I learned my lesson.
I've bought from these retards once before. I will never buy a damn thing again from these idiots!!!
Also, I think it's really funny they're running a Microsoft web server for their Linux box company.
Sick . . .
You said the following....
"First 8 CPU box I've seen running Linux (which I
didn't even know could do 8 way SMP."
I guess this proves that you have never examined the source code for Linux......
Q: Have you ever done any cluster programming?
The first point to note is that with a cluster, every CPU has its own memory, and there is no shared memory -- that makes for a -very large- latency between the CPU's (i.e. you can't run a process on CPU1 and then move it to CPU2).
With an 8-way SMP system, every CPU sees the same memory, and so objects etc. don't need to be copied over the wire, and if you want to deal with 1GB data objects, then you don't need 1GB per machine to handle it -- 2GB in the single box is better.
Q: Have you ever done any cluster programming?
The first point to note is that with a cluster, every CPU has its own memory, and there is no shared memory -- that makes for a -very large- latency between the CPU's (i.e. you can't run a process on CPU1 and then move it to CPU2).
With an 8-way SMP system, every CPU sees the same memory, and so objects etc. don't need to be copied over the wire, and if you want to deal with 1GB data objects, then you don't need 1GB per machine to handle it -- 2GB in the single box is better.
Also, bear in mind that the major cost of MPP systems like Cray T3E's and large enterprise boxes like E10K's is the memory interconnects and memory bandwidth to the processors -- clusters (usually) lack this kind of bandwidth.
Pretty sad, when you flame other manufactures while working for a so so one....
..it is not one.
..J..Guess what Packard Bell used to use the Intel motherboards like VA.when they had so much trouble.
Anyway, here is the reply to your FUD!!!!
Eric, Can I say you are full of sh*t.
I will reply to your "FACTS"..
1). Dell is NOT a white box operation. My brother worked for one of the premier government labs and now he is a design engineer at Dell.
(He is an EE)
And he is in one of many teams that Dell has in Austin TX. If you pull a Dell Laptop or a Dell Optiplex, you can see that they are very different
from any mother board. For example, Dell built the Sound chip Video controller and Ethernet on this small system board.
They fixed the PCI on a riser. The BIOS is written by Dell. The board is designed and built by Dell. So where is the "white Box" deal.
Dell designs there own laptops. Peter Coffee at PC week said, it is no wonder Dell is so good. His Dell Latitude is still running after
many many years..no failures. See what good engineering does to a product. Why do people buy Toyota nd Honda and not Hyundai..
(remenber the Excel..as bad as M$ Excel...mnine blew the motor...)
Do you know why they beat everyone else on reliability..including compaq..Because of the design and the engineering built in to the system.
I guess Compaq guys must be laughing at their own folly. Lot of their people left them in the last few years to work for Dell.
( Do not like the bull shit happening over their) By the way, Glen Henry, architect of Winchip was a dell fellow till he decided to go solo.
This guy built a x86 processor with a4 man design team in Austin, without violating any of Intels patents. It was done in less tha one year.
So cut the crap about Dell not having design engineers. VA has 60 odd employees and Penguin 30 something
(this is from their own press releases).Dell has over 800 design engineers. So eat your heart out man.
I am doing my Msc and when I finish I will head to Dell too. I was a design engineer at Sun after my Bsc.
I went Stanford for my Bsc.
2) Sure VA has people who came from Compaq and Apple.Ok, take the 60 people and take out sales support and HR. Now tell me
how many designers are there.
3) VA never built their system the way Dell Compaq and IBM does. VA buys a motherboard and bolts it in to a white Box and some
of them were OEM Intel plain vanila white boxes. Now except the high ends it is is even outsource-ing that part too.... to some
third party company (once again, slapping a mother board and the rest together).
****Dell is an alpha vendor for Intel. Same as compaq. The boards are designed way before the Processor and the Chipset go gold.
They work with Intel and share the technology.
4). So no one can make a motherboard faster and better than Intel. Try this for a test, Dell PowerEdge 2300
beat the Intel designed white box used by Micron. It beat on memory performance, I/O performance, Disk Performance.
(Using the same processors, chipset and drives. "Must be that little mice that keyboard dell sells..what do you think Eric..
does that explain that..." Read the reviews. Pcweek and Computer shopper both.
Talking through your nose again.All most all the major vendors uses robots to place componets on the motherboard.infact they
can learn from an error and reprogrammed very quickly. Today not a single componet is placed by hand.That is why all the components
are perfectly aligned. The board is tested also by robots. El cheapo from Taiwan must be using the human being. Eric, you say
you (I guess you mean VA and Penguin and LHS) cannot out engineer Asus. You know why, because you do not have the people to do the
design work. Do you know how many are needed to desighn a mmotherboard today...I can tell you this
Intel gives out reference designs, that is why most el-cheapo board look the same. But they save cost in manufacturing and quality.
It does not mean they are faster or reliable or good for mission critical stuff.
Compaq integrated only the slower components in to an ASIC.It is cheaper...sure. Depends on if you want to limit your design.
I know what I am talking about. Many of my friend are in design teams over there.also from Sun and IBM.Way to go Stanford.
5). VA and Penguin and LHS.you guys are not even at the level of Acer..or even that lowly PackardBell.
Oh.heh heh
Now they use NEC boards after NEC bought them out.Not sure of it but that is what I heard informally.
6). System Integration by VA and LHS and Penguin?..there are people like CompUSA who are better at it. So, what happens,
CompUSA hires a bunch of programmers to do what you guys are doing???? Writing a few drivers..(or can I say tweaking other
peoples work.since it is open source.and installing Linux.
7). Problem with VA and Penguin and LHS is they are running scared of Dell after Dell started selling Linux boxes. You guys better be.
Penguin's Okraboy said in a press release that heard that Dell is outsourcing the Linux install. That is typical of the sleazy flames they are trying.
Dell used to have its own Unix boxes in early 1990. All along they used to install SCO and Solaris in the factory. They have spent over
many many months tuning their Linux install operation. Lets see what happens in a few months OK.Next time do not dish out false statements
as facts.Dell might sue you and your motley LHS. No security in hiding behind the disclaimer saying these views are mine and not LHS.
Sort of giving cheap publicity to LHS.
"This is the fastest Intel based computer available."
Umm, no. What about that zillion-node PPro Intel built down at Sandia or wherever? If you place the emphasis on "available", Sequent sells 32-way NUMA Xeon boxes.
Must every company _lie_?
Its possible to have any number of processors on a motherboard up to a certain number with out and "special" hardware modification by tying the apics together i am not sure how this affects the software running ontop of this but it is possible to have up to 16 i beileve on one board with out adding any extra hardware (i.e motherboards).
i have looked at many lpx and nlx form factor
boards by intel and asus, fully integrated, the
only motivation being from the enthusiast point of view, the video would not be a problem, the
onboard lan could be, so to answer your ? yes
their out there, is there a market, who knows?
gateway sells a low end net pc for $999, will
everything on it work, probably not, unless you
glue your butt to a seat an code your way around the plug and play issues.
Is it owned by VA, or by an individual? I doubt its 'sole purpose' is what you say it is, and as I doubt you are telepathic, that statement is questionable in and of itself. And I think Penguin can ruin itself on its own, if what was seen at ALS was any indication.
not only that, Chris owns and VA Research is hosting penguincomputing.net and penguin-computing.org/com/net....wow!
Doesn't DiBona have his own server where he hosts his own site (I went there looking for info on his and Ockmans book)
that's a lot of energy in attacking Penguin and the pure Linux systems we sell.
That statemnet reeks of self-rightoeous bs. Time is sbest spent improving oneself, not attacking another (and if you are accusing VA of it, you are doing so by the doing the same activity)
Why don't you use that energy to attack MS?
Why doesn't penguin dedicate more energy to making comperable product, a decent employee retention rate, and accuracy in their announcements (I saw the 8-way VA had at LWCE...where was Penguin Comps?)
Its little things liek that that make your brow-beating less credible.
Peace,
'peace'? you must be from California Alli Penguin Computing
Checking host: www.thelinuxstore.com port 80
Operating system: 209.140.25.18:80 * Microsoft Windows 95/98/NT
Web server software: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
Yeah, a lot of people are going to buy from these idiots. Why would anyone buy from a supposed Linux company, that embraces Microsoft? Not only that, but the email I received from these people was written with MICROSOFT exchange.
What a bunch of losers.
Sometimes all the money the vcs can bring in can't replace hard work and love for of the craft...
So then where does Penguin Computing fit in? And why are you the only person from PC that ever posts? One would think that Sam would be defending himself (under something other than AC) if these 'attacks' had any merit.
What a bunch of crap. You aren't running Linux, by choice.
Gee, maybe you ought to wait to have all your applications ported to Linux, before opening a Linux hardware store. Because that's how the Linux community works -- you just sit back and get a free ride, without having to give anything back to the Linux comminuty. Heh, right losers.
Hmm, a company that sucks starts selling Linux boxes suddenly. They then decided to run NT over the Penguin too? This sounds like a real Linux success story.
Um, these guys must be retarded. Hmm, for only $50.00 too. MicroMart sucks the fat one.
WTF, they are running a Microsoft web server too!
****ROFL****
and penguin has neither...
What kind of crap is this? These guys are running Microslop IIs, and selling Linux boxes?
I love the servers these guys offer too. *chuckle*
I've bought junk from this company before! New name, same stink, theLinuxstore.
Do they think anyone will buy this crap? Come on, $800 for an AT based machine with a 300MHz AMD processor running on a 66MHz bus? www.fraud.org Why the hell would anyone buy their crap, when it's clear they have *no* association with the Linux community? In fact, I notice they are running a Microsoft web server, it appears. Gee, Linux is really selling well lately. Let's start selling Linux machines. Psst. Put the cheapest crap you can together and sell it.
Their product lines sucks. They obviously know nothing about Linux. Their web site sucks too.
They're using their own chipset. Making this a very proprietary box.
Well, queso says:
So, yes, I guess it is an MS server. Tsk Tsk.
-Brett.
I have used resellerratings in the past and have found that the ratings generally represent what is REALLY going on at the company. The fact of the matter is that you have really managed to piss off the majority of your customers. 7 of the 8 respondants have mentioned that they received rude service.
Nevertheless, a 1.7 out of 7.0 rating on resellerratings shows me what kind of company you really are.
Yes, he is. He said so. Or weren't you at last year's Linux Expo? :)
No, the big draw to Linux is that it'll run on fscking anything.
-Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Now you know why Linux Hardware Solutions and VA Research aren't aiming at the low end, and why a large-volume distributor of Wintel computers is the first one to take Linux to the low end.
Personally, I'd love for a Linux-centric vendor to attack the low end. But the marketing is going to be a killer. I think the only way to make it work is to have a Linux equivalent of the iWhack, i.e., plug it in, turn it on, it comes up and asks you to set up your ISP, and the whole thing costs under $500. The only way to sell something like that is in the mass market, which takes $$$ to buy your way onto the shelves at Best Buy and Circuit City. The other possibility I see is for sort of a WebTV without the TV part, i.e., a diskless machine with a built-in monitor that operates off of flash disk that runs a browser and that's pretty much it. Think "iWhack" with a flash card instead of a disk drive. But again, we're talking about massive quantities needed to make a profit here, and a marketing strategy that requires millions of dollars to make work. I have actually played with a similar diskless "thin client", but right now it's too expensive for that kind of use. Right now it's just a diskless Linux workstation for use in, e.g., loading bays and other such high heat/high vibration areas where you don't want a hard drive. The only way to get the price down is by selling massive quantities, and the only way to do that is by investing massive amounts of money in advertising.
Anyhow, enough of that. (And note that I am DEFINITELY not speaking for Linux Hardware Solutions in this message... believe me, my boss just smiles and ignores me when I start raving about going after the consumer market !)
-Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Basic limitation is how to share processors? DUH!
Cache coherency etc. is not part of the problem. The problem is the granularity of the semaphoring within the Linux kernel. That is, how much of the kernel can be running in parallel. Right now, once you get up past 4 processors, the kernel becomes the limit.
There are also some process control and migration issues, as well as memory management, all of which can be lumped under the banner of "scheduling issues". Matt Dillon of the FreeBSD project did an interesting analysis of the Linux VM, for example, noting how it was a simple and elegant design (and making suggestions for doing similar simplifications to the FreeBSD VM subsystem) but somewhat simple-minded with some obvious performance problems when dealing with large memory sets (like when we're talking 8-way processors!).
Anyhow: the Linux kernel guys know what needs doing. It's just that they're now at the hard part -- going from protecting entire subsystems with semaphors (so that they run on only a single processor) to allowing those subsystems to run in parallel on multiple processors (by protecting the data structures within those subsystems with semaphors). The known scheduling and VM issues need addressing too, of course. All of which is on the table for 2.3.
-- Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
1) Dell is almost totally a "white box" operation, with the exception of the very high end of their line. In fact, the Compaq guys make fun of Dell because so much of Dell's stuff is just off-the-shell commodity hardware. The Dell guys just smile all the way to the bank.
2) I assure you that LHS and VA Research, at least, have people on staff who came from Compaq, Apple, etc. and are quite familiar with the design centers at those compoanies.
3) VA Research no longer builds their own low-end computers. Those have been outsourced to Flextronics (or did you miss their news release?). Most computer companies do this. Very few low-end computers are built by the company whose badge is on the front cover. (Heck, even the iWhack is contracted out to such an outsourcing firm!).
4) In general, almost all facets of designing and building a computer can be outsourced now. I can't tell you details (sorry, NDA), but basically it becomes a game of where your design dollars should go. In the $1K-$30K range Compaq cannot build better motherboards than ASUS or Intel, and in fact they don't. What they do accomplish is creating motherboards that are cheaper to add into manufactured computers. Ever wonder why so many components are integrated into Compaq motherboards? Well, that saves a few dollars because those components can be automagically placed onto the motherboard by robot pick'n'place machines, rather than having some poor slob have to spend thirty seconds slamming a video card into a computer and spinning the retaining screw home.
But the thing about outsourcing is that the poor slob is now in Malaysia or Thailand and is being paid $3 per day. Given that, why invest design dollars creating a board that reduces manufacturing costs, but which is actually technically inferior to what can be bought off the shelf from ASUS or Intel? (I say technically inferior because integrated peripherals reduce the flexibility and repairability of a computer, both of which are qualities which I personally value).
5) All that nonwithstanding, you are correct about being able to put together a system equal to that of VA Research, Dell, or Linux Hardware Solutions out of off-the-shelf parts. In fact, any Joe Consultant in Cheyenne Wyoming can do the same. That is what is so amazing about today as vs. 20 years ago, when that was definitely not the case.
Given that, vendors like VAR, LHS, etc. are not going to win by trying to out-engineer ASUS and Intel. Engineering resources have to be carefully allocated to those areas where off-the-shelf hardware currently doesn't exist (I don't think I can say more there, NDA etc). In the mainstream $1K-$30K server market, though, where any Joe Schmuck can buy the exact same parts off the shelf, it's the services of systems integration and support that we sell. We sort through the dozens of video cards and network cards and etc. out there so you don't have to, and then set things up and often times hunt up or write drivers for things that need it (like for the Symbios 53c896-based stuff or the Mylex stuff). If you don't need those services, build your own for crying out loud! That's why we put the parts lists up on our web sites, after all. But don't diss those of us providing a valuable service just because you don't need that particular service!
-- Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
The real limit is simply that the Linux kernel's locking isn't granular enough. From listening to the discussions on the kernel list, the basic limitations seem to be in the filesystem and SCSI device drivers (you don't try doing a machine like this with IDE drives!). Theodore T'so popped up a while back saying he was going to work on making the filesystem work better w/SMP, but that was the last we heard of him (presumably he has discovered that it's harder than he thought!).
Anyhow: The VA Research machine is apparently, from reading their press releases, a machine that was developed by a Japanese manufacturer in conjunction with Intel (was it Hitachi?). I suspect that the Penguin machine is the exact same machine, just as the rest of their "big" servers are the exact same machines that VA Research sells (heck, the exact same machines that Linux Hardware Solutions sells as our dual processor Xeon workstation and quad processor Xeon servers, except that for our top-of the-line quad server we use the AMI platform rather than the Intel one, and we deck them out a bit differently as far as network card and RAID card). I haven't the foggiest clue who has been putting LSD into Sam's drinking water lately with these hallucinogenic press releases we've been seeing, but I must admit that I get a bit of a laugh out of them. Maybe he's doing like UserFriendly etc. and stringing the April Fools jokes out?
Eric.
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Today, thanks to the mass market in commodity components created by the IBM PC platform (see The Commoditization of Computers), any Joe Consultant in Hoboken, Michigan can put together his own computers that are every bit as high in quality and low in price as those from Dell. It's an amazing democratization of the computer industry, totally unlike anything that has ever happened in any other industry. Suddenly any schmuck off the street can build a computer just as good as what he can buy, often for less!
Given all that, folks like VA Research, Penguin, or Linux Hardware Solutions would have to be nuts to design their own motherboards. People don't buy our hardware because it is somehow better than what Joe Schmuck can put together in his back room with an issue of Computer Shopper in hand. People buy our hardware because we are *LINUX* people. We know Linux. We can choose the best hardware for Linux out of that vast array of commodity hardware just sitting on the shelf for the picking. We can configure Linux to best work on this hardware (and for the guy who says Red Hat 5.2 won't work with the 2.2 kernel, every single one of our SMP machines ships with the 2.2 kernel, and probably 90% of those are Red Hat 5.2). We can set up the automounter so that people don't have to mount and dismount floppies and CD-ROMs. We can install "X-CDRoast" when people buy a CD-R from us.
When every Joe Schmuck can put together a box that's every bit as good as what he could buy from Dell, Gateway, or LHS, we're no longer in a business where engineering is the difference. Rather, the difference is going to be service and quality of components. Fundamentally speaking, folks like VA Research, LHS, and Penguin sell the service of pulling together Linux-compatible components and installing Linux on the resulting computers. How well we do this is what detirmines our success or failure -- not how many components we manufacture ourselves.
Note: I'm talking about the "mainstream" market, between $1,000 and $30,000 in price... past $30,000, we're talking about engineering making a difference again, and below $1,000, you need massive quantities that Joe Schmuck can't do in his back room. Still, you get the point, right?
--Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
And the contradiction is where, exactly?
Ignoring for the moment whether the NX chipset can support 8 processors, has it occurred to anyone that the distro they include is RH5.2? Which uses Linux 2.0.36 at best. Which has terrible SMP support. The least they could do is offer a customized distro based on 2.2 with some modern multiprocessing capabilities. No way I'm going to spend 100 grand on a machine and let Linux 2.0 anywhere near it. Who do they think they're kidding?
For your typical PC he is right. PCs do not have the memory bandwidth, or any of the other things that make that statement untrue for the big machines like Sun or Sgi makes.
The one good thing is the 1024x768 screen resolution. I have no clue (and they don't say) who made the laptop, so I don't know what accessories I can buy except from them. It comes with too little memory and you can only get a total of 64M from them (and it's presumably EDO, not SDRAM). Your only choice for networking is a 3COM 10Mbit card, no 10/100 cards nor any modem I saw, built-in or otherwise.
Just not knowing who makes the laptop would be the first big red flag in my book...not seeing any interesting accessories on that site nor on cpu micromart's site was another... Where do you go for a docking station? An extra battery if the "Linux Store" goes under?
I'd get a refurbished Winbook, despite the name, give the lose'98 CD to a friend (if any wanted it) and stick Linux on it myself so I know what's going on... As hot as they call themselves, I would've thought they'd use Stampede, not Red Hat, if they knew what they were doing...
The problem with selling low-cost boxes is that they're inherently low-margin. On the other hand, finding a low-cost box which will run linux and X without a problem can be hard.
I would probably use a highly integrated AT mobo with a minitower case, if I had to build one, unless MicroATX has gotten a lot cheaper...and you'd have to find a MicroATX board that has full Linux support for the video and audio. Ditto for any MediaGX boards.
VAResearch had the first 8 way xeon back in March. There's a picture of VAResearch's founder standing next to it at LinuxExpo, but like every other product, if you don't market it, it might as well not exist.
With all due respect, Penguin Computing's claimed 8-CPU support does not seem possible. ftp://download.intel .com/design/chipsets/datashts/24377101.pdf, and every other source I've been able to consult, states that the Intel 450NX chipset supports up to four Xeons. Not eight.
I've recently heard a claim that what Penguin Computing is really doing is reselling this. That would partially explain the 450NX puzzle: It's an NEC-designed variant of the 450NX, the "Aqua II", that is said to do some weird bridging of two 450NX sets. (I've been unable to find information on it.)
What that does to SMP is an interesting question.
Keep in mind that nothing about RH requires you to use any specific package (be it kernel, apache, or whatever). Just bust out of the .rpm, grab the .tgz or .tar.bz2 and install the old-fashioned way if you need a customized solution.
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
This is not true. The public reading this should know that that Alison is a penguin computing employee and Sam Ockman's Girlfriend. Real nice ethics Alison, you should let the public know who you are when you slam a competitor.(In case you have trouble with the word, it's : ethics)
Chris DiBona
Evangelist, VA Research (See,that wasn't so hard, was it.
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
Chris DiBona
Evangelist, VA Research
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
Chris DiBona
Evangelist, VA Research.
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
Time warp, eh? As in, this server announcement was meant to go out on April 1, but managed instead to go out on April 8?
I say that we all need to go have a good re-read of the penguincomputing.org web site!
--
--
I noticed
It's getting about time to leave everywhere
I worked for Ockman in the extremely early days of Penguin. I got better.
As for the Chilean girlfriend, he mentioned her on many occasions--even wanted to set up a branch office of Penguin in Chile. This was back in the days when he wasn't paying for his colo space and was booted out of the office space he was mooching from a friend.
At the time, he also bragged to me that he had some designs on our co-worker and office manager. He made it sound as though he and Alyson had a fairly open relationship. I stayed out of it, but I feel rather sorry for all those that he is involved with.
--
--
I noticed
It's getting about time to leave everywhere
something like, anything over 4 right now is throwing money at a dead horse.
Rev. Randy
- Kate
"DNA is life. The rest is just translation."
Connected to www.thelinuxstore.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
Content-Location: http://209.140.25.18/index.htm
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:46:05 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Last-Modified: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 02:15:55 GMT
ETag: "d6e0453e537abe1:32f3"
Content-Length: 834
------------------------------------------
Trying 209.140.25.18...
Connected to www.thelinuxstore.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:48:43 GMT
Content-type: text/html
Expires: 0
Pragma: no-cache
Cache-control: no-cache, no-store, must-revalidate
Error
Error Occurred While Processing Request
Error Diagnostic Information
Server busy or unable to fulfill request. The server is unable to fulfill
your request due to extremely high traffic or an unexpected internal error.
Please attempt your request again (if you are repeatedly unsuccessful you
should notify the site administrator). (Location Code: 25)
Connection closed by foreign host.
da w00t. mtfnpy?
Which is precisely why they're called BogoMIPS -- they're a completely bogus measurement of CPU speed. Trust me, each of those UltraSparc CPUs will blast your AMD out of the water...
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
From experience, yes it is. We've got a few E10000 StarFires here -- the largest domains are 24 CPUs, each and they definitely *do* need them. Running them with 16 or less cripples performance. Admittedly, this is with Solaris, but given that Sun are now providing David Miller with access to hardware and information, I see no reason that Linux can't scale that high properly, too. 16 CPUs today, 64 tomorrow. World domination next week :-)
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Alan Cox noted at one point recently that there were some major upgrades to Linux SMP (I think it happened somewhere in the middle of the 2.1.x series) that he said made Linux SMP _very_ nice for high numbers of CPUs, up to 16. I don't remember whether UltraLinux can boot w/more.
I think that Linus was talking about the hardware limitation of i386 architecture, and I'd say you're throwing your money away w/more than 2. But SPARC is _way_ better than intel for multiprocessing. Tho I dunno if even on an Ultra-450 16 processors is really all that worthwhile.
Linux 2.2 pretty much tops out at 8 way. Anything higher is a bit of a waste still. Solaris is much better for that many processors, at least on Sun hardware. Does anybody know if Solaris x86 is signigantly more scaleable?
:)
2.0 was pretty good two way, but it didn't stack up to most other systems at anything above that.
People are working on even finer grain kernel locks, and enough people want more processors that I'm sure that Linux 2.3 will boost us to at least 16, and quite probably 64.
In two years I will regret having made that statement.
That wasn't half as funny as the option to purchase the Personal Edition of WordPerfect 8!
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
Think, before you speak r00t d00d..
Heat fins on the case? Since when is the CASE a major source of heat? If you want to transfer heat from the hard drive and the CPU ONTO the case, how would you do it? Submerge it in water maybe... :)
CPU's in _general_ aren't the problem; x86 and is hugely innnefficent and generates higher-than-average levels of heat so it needs another fan atop the heat sink. My PowerPC does quite nicely without a CPU fan... the CPU is in my estimation the third source of heat after the hard drive and power supply.
As a result, this G3 is AMAZINGLY quiet. I suppose all fans could be disabled if I got an external hard drive (no thanks) or netbooting (not needed) and moved the power supply out, but I'm not willing to test it. If I wanted absolute quiet I'd get a G3 rackmount from Marathon Computers..
One thing that CAN help reduce noise is applying vibration dampening material to "safe" metal inside the computer, like portions of the frame and maybe the inside of the case cover (YMMV I wouldn't completely cover the case because more heat may build up).
You can get the stuff at a car-stereo shop..
But I thought that the NX chipset only did up to, 4-way CPU's.
Is this vapor-hardware? I know that Intel is working on 4+ systems but they are not out yet.
I am pretty sure that I am right.
Feed back anyone?
"Think of it as evolution in action."
I love this card. it works great in all of my Linux servers.
Of course I would prefer a Yellowfin but not all of us are that lucky.
"Think of it as evolution in action."
why do those cards suck?
Food: It's whats for dinner
Anyone else notice that they are using 3com 905b cards in their systems? Don't they know that those cards suck?
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
Check out Netcraft's info here:
www.thelinuxstore.com is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4 or Windows 98
Yeah, I think I'll be rushing to purchase a Linux box from someone who doesn't use their own product.
-dave0
--
-dave0
I'm running a Dual Pentium-Pro box with the 2.2.x kernel series, and have used 2 3c905b's in it since day one, using it for masquerading/firewalling, and have never had a problem with the 3com cards, running them at either 10Mb/s or 100Mb/s. We use them at work with all our pc-based servers, SCO and Linux (but we really really want to replace SCO). =)
It's really the only card I've ever used where I just plug it in and it works.
I used to think printing on on Unix sucked. Then I figured it out. Printing on Unix *does* suck. Like a Kirby.
I believe that Ultra Penguin has booted on
an Ultra 5000 with 16 CPUs. Still, as has been
pointed out, anything over four and you're wasting
CPUs.
It looks like The Linux Store is "a service of" CPU Micromart. I don't know if that means their service will be as bad as CPU Micromart, or not. Just though I should warn people, though.
(I have ordered stuff from CPU Micromart, and I eventually got it, but I don't know that I would recommend them.)
--Rob
$649 is quite respectible, but there are lower priced computer out there capable of running Linux.
- Sam Ruby
... There you will find some choice words straight from the buyer's mouths on some of the lower cost vendors at pricewatch. Not that they are all bad, ( in fact some are very good ) but you need to shop carefully. Pricewatch accept ads from some real crooks ( including the ones that are trying to run with my money ... )
The people who post to resellerratings.com are not a representative sample of the population. In fact it is often bad luck with a hardware purchases that will entice someone to surf around for a shop like that.
Also , someone who has a run-of-the-mill purchase experience usually will not post a comment. Partly because a purchase where everything goes OK doesn't say that much about a company. The people who post comments fall into two categories:
(a)people who are loyal customers
(b) people who have bad luck with a purchase and get to put the companies support to the test.
cheers,--
The important thing when looking up a company is to check their numerical rating and see how they compare with the other dealers on the site. It their rating is better than 6 ( about Dell's level ) and have received a lot of feedback, they are probably an honest dealer who you can trust. If their rating is below 4, they are probably scam artists.
cheers,
In Linux Magizine Volume 1 interview with Linus, he stated that Linux currently has support for upto 16 processors and doubts there will ever be more then that, since it will reduce performance for non-smb systems.
for someone who's not looking carefully is that this is a dual-processor system with two processors. The company is not actually lying to its customers, but I would consider this type of marketing to be remarkably Clintonesque.
A roughly equivalent system from Penguin Computing is $2,495 (dual-capable system with a single Pentium/500 CPU), but at least you know what you're getting. I didn't check VA Research because all their dual processor systems are SCSI and thus not price-competitive.
Overall, I think I'd stay away from this company. Dishonest marketing material, even merely by implication, is a giant red flag for me.
D
----
My message got mangled somehow - probably because I was trying to post from the NetPositive browser on the BeOS. NP doesn't seem to like the posting mechanism. Anyway, my point was that it was a dual-processor capable system with just one processor, and that fact was not clearly explained. Sleazy.
However, I have a question to IntlHarvester - what is it about IDE that makes it use up the CPU? I hear people bad-mouthing IDE all the time, but it's worked fine on my Mac G3, even for high-speed video captures. What's wrong with IDE?
D
----
It makes me a little worried about making a mail order purchase when, even with a high-rated company that's very good at satsifying customers, you have 27 people returning merchandise out of 63 total respondants (see Transcend Technologies ratings).
Just wondering. Incidentally, I don't mean to pick on Transcend - pretty much all the highly-rated companies have similar stories to tell.
D
----
With UDMA, cpu utilization is at extremely low,
SCSI-equivalent levels, and has been so for over
a year.
-- d'arcy poirot
I thought multi-proc + IDE was a bad idea. Plus why buy an extra CPU when you're burning the cycles you do got with IDE?
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
What is asynchronous IO? What specifically does it relate to?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
I got the following error from them when i tried to open one pannel of there frame in to a new window. -----------------------
Error Occurred While Processing Request
Error Diagnostic Information
Error resolving parameter WEBPRICE
Cold Fusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either:
1.You have misspelled the parameter name, or
2.You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag.
The error occurred while evaluating the expression:
price = #webprice#
The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFSET), occupying document position (23:1) to (23:26).
Date/Time: 04/08/99 13:49:20
Browser: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.3 i686)
Remote Address: 205.246.80.11
Template:
D:\thelinuxstore\wwwroot\catalog\system1.cfm
---------------
Wow is that a NT box. Or does cold fusion use paths like Windows. I thing that if they sell Linux Boxes they should not host on NT.
(just my 1/2 cent)
--
Joshua Curtis
Lancaster Co. Linux Users Group
A little steep for an intel based machine. .. yada
Regardless of no. of processors or speed,
it's no SGI. I called SGI and for a basic
SGI ONYX^2 Base Reality 2x 195Mhz RS10k
system its only $70,000. The basic setup
for this 8 xeon proc box is $100,000.
-Z
I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going.
Uh, unless I am very much mistaken,
it is impossible to write an OS without
having a large clue stick about the
underlying hardware. And in Linus' case,
I'd definately trust him with both
Intel hardware capabilities and the
performance of his OS on its primary
hardware platform.
This stuff looks pretty nice, but the build your own approach appeals to me personally from a pricing and education standpoint. I want to build a PC running Linux/Windows,(I know, I know, but I like Half-Life) to play with Gimp and Blender, as well as aquiring *nix skills. Would anyone be kind enough to point me to some favorite vendors for parts/components/boxes? Best web sites with tutorials for such an endeavor? Thanks, /.ers.
The music is not in the piano -Clement Mok
Senior Taco- Perhaps you missed their booth in all the craziness, but VAResearch was showing an 8-way Xeon box with something like 2TB on on-line storage.
It gave off enough heat to warm a small apartment, but it looked killer.
-jason
4-way may be overkill for home use, but it is by no means overkill when you run an Internet company. Some of our production DB servers where I am employed contain 16 CPUs, and we are thinking of upgrading to even bigger babies (all Sun, of course).
Sun didn't create the Enterprise 10000 just for fun. There are people out there who need 64 CPUs to run apps like Oracle and PeopleSoft.
-jason
It sounds like you're using Cold Fusion. Why not at least use Solaris/x86 or Sun hardware? That certainly beats the Redmond Devils. Anything developed on CF for NT will run on Solaris with minor tweaks (depending on what you're doing, but most apps do)
All I know is that all of the good .*linux.*.com domains are being taken. I spent a good week or so desiding upon thelinuxmart.com. Does anybody know how many domains linuxmall.com actually owns? It is scary!
-APNo, it actually is google. Since you can't copyright a number, it's www.google.com
they had on display a borrowed one from Intel, with most components under beta and not shipping for awhile...
Sometimes all the money the vcs can bring in can't replace hard work and love for of the craft...
Alli
and dns is through electric lichen, a company
owned by VA Research with the sole intent of
slandering vicious information and causing
Penguin Computing to lose customers.
not only that, Chris owns and VA Research is hosting penguincomputing.net and penguin-computing.org/com/net....wow! that's a lot
of energy in attacking Penguin and the pure Linux
systems we sell.
Why don't you use that energy to attack MS?
Peace,
Alli
Penguin Computing
is this a ploy by micromart "publicy traded as EBIZ" to boost stock price or what? "Gee this Linux thing is really taking off. . .and look what those EMachine guys are doing. . .hey, i've got an idea!!!"
And tsk, tsk to news.com for link to the wrong Freashmeat. (.org indeed!)
I think i'm going to berate the marketing folks here, just to get my pound of flesh. . .
I really doubt it was Alpha.
They can't spell "googol", either.
(Menu entry is labeled "google search".
K
Give me some of those to make a Beowulf cluster, baby!
:-)
Someone would have mentioned a Beowulf cluster, eventually.. might as well get it out of our systems now.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Give me that 8-way Xeon fast! It'd be the perfect roommate.
With an in-house 8x 500MHz Xeon, don't you think one could get another roommate to pay the rent? ;)
Yeah, but people like to throw money at worse things..... But that's another storey..
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
Yeah, but people like to throw money at worse things..... But that's another story..
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
Hmm The perfect roomate helps pay bills and cleans! Lets see an 8x do that!
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
*Cough, Cough* Any one remember the super computer built of 1024(Or was it more) 200 mhz Pentium Pros?
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
The AWE64 series AFAIK is discontinued... besides what advantage does it have over a basic, cheaper SB16 anyway under Linux.
But then again, why mess with ISA PNP sound boards when their Ensoniq PCI line goes for $30-45 and works great... no more clicks/pops when the PCI bus is busy either with the new 2.2.3+ kernels either.
I've been using a scsi drive lately. I used to use a udma, BIG DIFFERENCE! My computer is much faster, and I can write cds in 4X while im browsing, writing, playing games (the few that exist for unix), and there are no problems at all. When I installed from a IDE cd to a scsi drive i got 1200kbs per sec. with IDE to IDE i got around 600kbs. Now I use a scsi cdrom as well and mys ystem flies!
This is a bit odd. Why are they trying to run the old 2.0.x kernel on the 8-way machine? Or is it a customised version of RedHat?
The new kernel is far superior in terms of SMP.
Paul
Monty
--
it scales THAT well? thats cool if its true...
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
Commercial BSD did SMP long ago, but remember the
BSD license: none of the changes were returned
to the Open Source world.
FreeBSD didn't get SMP until long after Linux
had production-quality SMP. Linux was the only
free game in town for a year or two at least.
FreeBSD is now at the Linux 2.0 level. Who cares?
Linux 2.2 is out now, with huge SMP improvements.
Linux has a bit of a SCSI bottleneck. You should
consider using a few IDE drives!
FreeBSD has crappy SMP. When you run the latest
experimental code, it is similar to Linux 2.0.
Ho humm. Linux 2.0 and FreeBSD are obsolete.
Oh, you think FreeBSD will fix that problem?
Yep, and Linux will fix the SCSI bottleneck.
Linux is also getting a superior filesystem
and superior network IO. What is offered now
is FreeBSD with crap SMP and Linux with good SMP.
Red Hat has a $1000 server edition. You get a
bit of extra tech support for that price!!!
I think Caldera has the same kind of offer.
What a deal!!!
Well, if you can get the boss to help fund your
favorite free software company... why not?
Save money by removing the fan and hard disk,
while making the system totally silent.
Put big black heat sink fins on the outside
if you need to. Silence would be wonderful.
I prefer dejanews for this sort of thing. No matter how good a vendor's service is you will find someone complaining (nobody's pefrect), but if you find lots of flames then watch out.
im sorry, the 3c905b is great for windoze, but c'mon folks, stick with the 3c905 for linux (i am unfortunate enough to be running with a PII Dell optiplex that has one of those on-the-mobo 3c905b interfaces at work.... i tried linux on it, and it just puked. packets dropping everywhere...timeouts....etc)
As an OEM and a linux builder, i find it hard to believe they are even offering this NIC when they could just as easily (and affordably) use the straight 905!
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
Our Server: As some users have noticed we are presently running the site on NT, we would like to offer a short explanation. Our shopping cart had to be developed on NT, the company that created the authoring software is in the process of porting their application to Linux. They have recently released a tool that allows us to connect from Linux to NT through a bridge and we are implementing that, but we will have to wait for the Linux version of their software to fully migrate to our new Linux server.
Check the dates on the stories. Through various online auctions CPU sold 10's of thousands of modems alone! CPU has also sold more than 3K of Multia's, including some to users who should have never attempted to install an OS on what is a quirky machine. CPU has done its best to service all of these people.....it's sort of like software, bugs show up for some people, some people love the software, but there is always room for improvement....version 2.1 will be better!
We updated the page with the dual processor workstation to reflect that the price and configuration clearly states that the dual processor motherboard is configured with only one processor. We did this so that someone who might not be able to afford both processors immediately would be able to benefit from adding a second processor as they needed it and could better afford it.
"$650 is not super cheap, but considering the specs, it's a good deal. I'd be hard pressed to build up a comparable box from scratch for that amount..."
It's a good deal when you compare it to mainstream computer prices. But using the same specs, I could build from scratch for about $200 less. Of course, that's without going into specifically which type of motherboard, ect.