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Cool PC Cases
PaulB writes "Intel's new Easy PC standard has some prototype systems ready for it, which you can read about on Wired. Very cool looking stuff, finally no more iMac envy. "
You can see the photos of the machines
on intel's website but
they do all have those stupid looking jumpsuit dudes in the way. Update: 06/08 08:45 by H :SurplusBaggage wrote in with the Phillips 42" monitors. Price tag: $15k.
i just realized i know where they took that picture of the largeass flat-screen display. they were showing it off, gosh, it has horrible resolution, but it does play DVDs nice. they were quite proud that their little concept PC could decode DVDs using CPU only. oh well, cheap kicks.
patrickg@earthling.net
I wouldn't mind having one of those on my desk..
Then again, it probably wouldn't take standard 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch drives so what good would it do in a year when I need to upgrade.
Maybe with the decreasing prices things are getting to the point where it makes more sense to get a brand new machine instead of upgrading individular components, but I'm not sure we're there yet.
Meanwhile, I'll stick to cases/mbs that'll let me upgrade individual components without replacing the entire machine.... Just wish they were prettier.. (though since everybody makes things in beige, it's unlikely those generic components are going to get much prettier)
Anyways, I think it's all a catch-22.. PC's are nice because the hardware is nice and generic and widely available, but with that comes some ugliness. I'd settle for a good looking flat screen, mouse and keyboard.. sicne nobody sees towers usually anyways.
I wonder how many of them are performance artists from the arts college at my university.
I also can't help but laugh out loud when I think that they might be Intel employees who got the job as some sort of reward.
Back in the 80's, there were all these movies about computers where people had all these big clunky boxes if not just a bunch of circuit boards piled on a workbench. You knew these guys were geeks. Pretty colors and edges that don't cut your hands may be fine for some, but I think I'll stay old school, thank you.
these things should be grouped collectively e.g. jar jar binks must die!
bunnypeople must die!
etc..etc..
plugging in a circuit board is fine for many of us who've grown up with ISA etc. lots of ppl learn to prod and poke their machines by installing stuff. whats the point of owning something if you havent seen what it looks like from inside and cant look inside even if you want to ?
The BunnyPeople are evil clowns. They represent the ultimate victory of market engineering over silicon engineering. You don't want to be engineered by Intel. You want a choice. You don't want to eat what they excrete. I don't blame you. But THEY do.
Intel makes my computer more FUN. It makes the internet prettier. I feel pretty.
First: that was one fucking ugly case, to put it mildly and politely.
Second: why are they called "bunny people"? They have no long ears, no fluffy tail, they are not furry, nor cute, nor playboy women. They are dorks wrapped in tin foil suits.
Third: Advertising is evil incarnate.
Well.. The blender was real cool.. I liked the iron too.. These are real hardcore 2000ish stuff. Are they AC or DC?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Boy, are those computers ugly. I did like the Philips 42" flat screen though. I'm sure the cost is WAY out of my league.
I'm not going to say anything is THE right way. There will always be another way, and maybe it has enough merit to be used. There are advantages to both designs. And do you really think "normal" people care one way or another if we have cards or a single PCB? I bet if you ask 100 "normal" people what's inside the case 90% of them have no clue, nor do they want one. One thing that's GOOD for "normal" people with the existing way (slots) is that if thier video chip dies the tech they take it to can replace the $20 video card they probably have. Not the entire motherboard, and maybe the CPU, depending on the design.
Personally, I LIKE being able to take out my video card and put in a VooDoo 3. And when something better comes out (and you know it will) I can upgrade to that, with only the cost of the replacement video card to worry about. And then there's RAM, CPU, Motherboard, HDs, CDROM, etc.. With a modular system I can upgrade all or part of the system as my needs and budget change. With this new style, I have to upgrade the whole thing at once. I get no choice in hardware, and I can't do anything about it if it breaks.
Computers are not toasters! They are complex for a reason. "normal" people shouldn't be opening them, and have no reason to since they will probably break them. This holds for the new systems as well. Keep in mind, for "normal" people, a computer is a black box. They can't see inside, they don't want to see inside. They see a power button, a few drives, and a few connectors on the back that they have the keyboard and such plugged into. They turn it on, work, and turn it back off. These people buy computers are places like "Circuit Shitty", "Best Buy", "K-Mart", and so forth. To them, it is an appliance anyway. The new format offers a pretty case, that's about it.
I say make pretty cases or even case/monitor combo cases (ala iMac) if you want to. But leave the internals alone. The only reason I can see for this change is for Intel to attempt to lock the market on PCs again. If nothing else, this is BAD for the consumer, as it limits thier choices. The only people that gain from this new way of doing things are the motherboard and CPU manufacturers. Uhhh... lessee, that means Intel has the most to gain here, doesn't it? This even locks out card makers like Matrox, ATI, 3Com, etc..
This is NOT good for the industry, it's good for Intel.
Do they have PCMCIA slots at least? I don't like where the industry seems to be heading. It's a step back to the days of the all-in-one computers like the CoCo, Atari 400, or Commodore Vic-20. Well, I'll just start looking to other manufacturers for my next computer.
What is wrong with the old AT case that has been holding x86 mobo's since almost the begining. I have an old xt 8088 case I bought back in 1988 and it still holds my pentium mobo just fine.
Yes, some idiots put the power cables in backwards,and it doesn't have super power saver whatever. But it has always worked fine for me -- maybe I just like the classics.
Once upon a time some intel engineers responsible for runing simulations to debug circuit designs felt bored and took too much LSD. They painted their suits in scary colours and started dancing and doing stupid things. And, my dear, if they havn't died (and they have *NOT*!) they're still dancing and doing stupid things. Go to bed now.
I think we have a new winner for the all time worst analogy on slashdot award!
The main selling point of a car is not that it looks good.
I promise you that if you took a corvette and put in a metro engine, it wouldn't sell. And if the main selling point for a girlfriend for you is her looks, then I wish you luck in finding happiness in a relationship.
It's true that these people you're talking about don't know anything about what's under the hood of their computer, but the iMac is still a pretty kicking machine.
Besides, I could never recommend Windoze to a new computer user, would you?
me wants one, anyone know how much $$$?
It may be politically incorrect.. but I always remember how the power cables go by remembering "black on black crime". :-) i.e. the two black wires go next to each other. *shrug*. Now the power connector for the AT power supply's power button is what befuddles me. That and the floppy drive little tiny power connector... those are just weird and sometimes can go on backwards.
"On an aside, one of the things that always bug me is the thoughtless use of IDE for device attachment."
Oh, don't worry. Intel hears your cry in the wilderness. As the user "Non-newtonian Fluid" pointed out in another thread above this one... Intel plans on removing the IDE interface from the PC. They also plan on removing ISA, Game/MIDI ports, PS/2 ports, Serial ports, Parallel ports, floppy, VGA, and all user-accessible slots (which includes PCI, and SCSI if I'm not mistaken.) USB is the way to go baby! Woo hoo!
This really disgusts me. The reason I use the PC platform is that its cheap and expandable. I don't know about you, but if I'm forced to have one or the other, I choose expandability over price. It looks like I'm going to start shopping around for my next computer platform. SGI, you're expensive, but your probably my next purchase. Intel, your loss.
I think that when the head of Intel said that he had seen the future when refering to the iMac, he must have realized that the future of PC's must be that they will become or are a commodity item.
Ie, people will not think that they are neat to be able to surf the internet and play games, etc, they will expect it (if they don't already now.)
I guess that they figured it must be time to add value to them in various ways; make some interesting case designs and stuff.
I wonder if they are trying to accelerate this change, or cash in on it. And if it is the latter, if it may be causing the former as a side effect.
Or perhaps the head guy realized that if they are a commodity, and the future of all pc cases is to look cool, that intel should be part of the history books as one of the first to do it.
Please do a week where some terminator guy (hey the guy with the AI, Ahnald) goes around has a rampage with the 'bunnypeople'. Or maybe a matrix like approach "dodge this! "...go watch the movie, you'll get it.
Finally, folks get over beige. Beige is good.
You know even in todays world 99% of the toasters out there are 1) rectangular and 2) chromed.
Joe
IMHO it would be a good thing for the majority of (technophobic) computer users if we did away with internal slots, and instead put 2 or 3 CardBus slots on desktop machines. CardBus is great: fast (enough for most things), hot pluggable, low power, fits in a shirt pocket, externally accessible.
That plus USB (for low bandwidth-) and FireWire (for high bandwidth-) peripheral interconnect is the way to do.
That's right, that's how much one of those 42" "Flat TV"s go for!
A message from the V.A.B.P president:
Each year 10,000 Bunny People are either mamed or killed in acts of nerd violence. While some of these attacks are completely uncalled for, most represent a justified reaction to the Intel Corporation's current advertising practices. We at V.A.B.P. believe that with planning and careful consideration the nerd community can bring up these numbers to at least 50,000 per year.
Please join us.
Sincerely,
R.M. Hamstack
http://www.vabp.com
bugs me
Intel wants to be a major player in the server market and as long as they do, they'll never lock all their chipsets into having only USB or something equally as blah like you predict. Rest assured you'll always have the choice of a motherboard with whatever interface you want, be it SCSI, firewire, etc... just take a deep breath and calm down.. it'll be alright
Yes.
Also, as a software developer, I can feel a little less guilty saying "Hey, you need to go buy the latest $150 super-duper 3D video card to play my game" than say, "Whoa, sorry. Need to go buy a new $700 computer."
"Hey, what about producing stackable components in a standard size?"
Yeah, but how do you expect to stack a bunch of retarded bunnies, fish, and all-in-one devices? Intel doesn't care about efficiency or productivity, they want to make "cute" designs to lure the average idiot into buying something that will become a doorstop 6-8 months down the road.
What the Hell, why would ANY teenager want a fish shaped computer? Thats so stupid. Maybe for like a 3 year old. Whatever intel is smoking, send some my way, that sounds like some whacky shit.
Gawd, i gotta get daddy's credit card and buy me a fish shaped computer, bbl.
High speed bus is IEEE-1394/Firewire/iLink.
I agree that all-in-one motherboards are a bad idea, but I don't think that internal buses are the final word either.
.03 frame per second of 3D acceptable -- that's about what you'd get saturating USB -- everyone else probably wants at least reasonable performance, which requires way, way more bandwidth than you're going to get from an external port for years to come.
One word: bandwidth.
You want the latest 3d technology? Unplug a couple of cables from the old unit, connect them to the new, and you're done as quickly as you can get a modern case open.
One word: bandwidth.
The other word: cost.
The reason we use internal busses is because an external bus (at least in a form that is anywhere affordable to the consumer) is too slow or noisy for high-bandwidth applications. You may find
And the cost issue is significant: look at the premium that Mac users pay for disk storage just because of the pretty external box the disk is in, or the price hike for external modems, or or or....
For cost and performance reasons, internal busses are going to remain with us for a long time to come.
I agree that integration is probably a bad idea. I've never seen integrated (or mass bundled!) hardware that offered an acceptable price/performance ratio in the consumer space. Look at the iMac as an example -- it's successful but certainly not because of the weak integrated video or the feeble on-board sound.
And of course, the problem with integrated hardware is that it reduces consumer choice. Something like Socket X is a the right direction to go, but the channel seems to have little to no acceptance of it, and IHVs are staying away in droves.
I've believed for a long time that all this legacy shit should be given the boot. One place I disagree though is the lack of agp/pci slots. Why can't there be a cool new pc with usb/firewire on the outside, and either pci or pc cards (laptop) on the inside???
-Mike
About that intel showcase...
Groovy baby yeah!!
Nuff said.
earlier this year, I hooked up a USB scanner and a USB printer onto the same computer. Then I started printing an immage, then I started to scan with the scanner. everything almost stoped. I couldent imagine something like this if I had a USB mouse and a USB keyboard. All input to the computer would stop. This would be realy bad for a server. (what happens on a print server when the power out signel from the UPS gets ignored because it is printing). USB is good, but from what I see, only one device can be active at one time. this is a Bad Thing....
Technically most of the intigrated macs from the SE to the G3 all in one have been more upgradeable than these Flex AT things.
Not that it was the best design in the world but the tooth shaped G3 all in one had floppy, CD and a Zip drive on the front. They had a scocketed CPU the same MB as a beige G3. Possibility of audio/video in the back plus standard extra sound connectors, Two Serial Ports, SCSI, Extra video connector and three empty PCI slots. Not too shabby for an all in one design.
Why won't they make more of those black boxes that fit
well with your stereo? Siemens (IIRC) had one system once,
but it was pretty crappy.
I guess it would have to lack all kinds of coolers that
produce irritating noise, and a quiet HDD. IR keyboard & mouse of course...
The fact that you cannot upgrade/open/work on a laptop is the main reason that I don't own one. There are a lot of people out there (myself included) who have been using computers since the days of the IBM PC and will NEVER use something like this. if I can't upgrade the motherboard in a case with something better, the the computer is not worth the money to me, or even the electricity to run it. And THAT is where these machines are heading. The comparision with TVs, VCRs, etc is completely worthless. Lets compare TVs and Video cards for example. With a TV the technology is fairly standard. certain number of lines, CRT refreshing at a certain rate, cable, etc. The techology (with the exception of HDTV) is pretty much set in stone. Sure, you may have new features (picture in picture, etc), but you're buying a feature set, not the R&D it took to produce it - picture in picture has been around for so long that anyone can do it. With video cards you have the exact opposite. You have 40 or so companies making very different chipsets with different instructions. You have cards coming out that are twice as fast as the card that came out 6 months ago, etc. In short, you have a market where the cost is driven by the R&D expenses, not the cost of glass and silicon that week. Simply put, an integrated market is one of dead ends and stagnation, because everything becomes proprietary and un-upgradable. How long after these machines hit the market will compaq and packard bell be doing the same thing? So we'll have a dozen different computer makers making worse trash that can't be upgraded. Goodie. Frankly, with the exception of the IBM PC that my family had 15 years ago, I have yet to buy a 'big name' computer, and this is even more reason not to.
too lazy to log in.
PI: Cannot blame. `startup' design
Indigo: Great
Indigo2: Bad
Indy: Bad
O2: Amazing
Octane: Back to Indigo greatness, but `Indepence Day'-like _white_ light is not nice.
Any `Terminator' class racks: yeah baby
O200: Very good (CrayLink, really)
02000/Cray2: pretty, pretty
And the winner is..
Apple collection 1998-1999
Hm. Did I forget because they aren't
real SGIs?
And take out the side panel to see the
`crap inside'.
Gee. It really seems that a PC is a PC is a PC
whatever you call it, and no matter what
cool chipset you put in it..
The Bunny People are really space aliens who are trying to help Intel with their technology.
Intel, The Truth is Inside.
But you're missing the point there. You can paint your case or mount the mona lisa on it, etc, with changing the functionality. Personally, I have no problem with the way these cases LOOK (granted I wouldn't shell out extra money for something that looked like a fish, but I don't really have a moral objection to it). What I (and a lot of people on here, I think) are objecting to is the fact that this is a dead-end machine that COMPLETELY removes the ability to modify or upgrade. By painting your case you don't do that.
still too lazy to log in
Not really. Curvy boxes are no good for stacking up tape drives and disks.
Please, don't ever get any pets!
These boxes make the iMac look like the Goddess of computing. I don't think Apple has ANYTHING to fear. Their coveted industrial design awards are completely safe.
... GIMME, GIMME, GIMME!!!!
As for the 42" plasma screen
Yes, that's just about the stupidest looking set of excuses for computer hardware I've ever seen. Yes, the (as someone else so eloquently put it) people in the 'Day-Glo' radiation suits are even dumber.
But you know what? If Joe Consumer is more concerned with flashy product demos, and hiding peripherals inside "decorative boquets," instead of having enough brains to be concerned with functionality, reliability, expandability, and performance, then I say s/he deserves exactly what they get.
No matter how much the industry pushes users away from education, and into a buying frenzy just because something "looks cool," it will always be impossible to get the most out of any computer if the owner refuses to learn anything more than where the power switch is.
Consumers will invariably buy all the "fashion" crap, which will leave the 'real' hardware for those of us "in the know." Does this bother me? Only with the slight possibility of increased prices for the 'real' hardware when its sales levels start to drop.
Personally, I have most of my computers in rackmount cases. Rugged, reliable, easy to work with, very well ventilated and shielded. These do not look like any sort of decorative accessory, folks, but they're definitely functional.
And that's the whole thing with me. Give me function over fluff any day. If I can't tear it open, add the components I want to add, or similarly dork around with it, I don't want it in my lab!
Good luck, Intel. Let's see how many of those non-expandable, "fashion-friendly" (throwaway) computers are rotting in landfills in another three or so years.
I think intel is coming darn close to stepping on the Power Rangers trademark. For weeks I've been trying to find out from Intel if the different BunnyPeople have their own special powers?
I can almost hear the TV ads now...
Blue: Oh no, the iMacs are approaching.
Purple: Quick to the Internet! Form of Koi!
Green: Shape of Bunny!
Purple and Green proceed through the blue door and procede to do kung fu whoop ass on some iMacs. Funky music plays. Intel sound. Fade out.
- use a light sandpaper on the front and sides to rough it up a little
- apply a primer
- paint design
- cover with clear enamel
Any other suggestions, especially paint types? I'd prefer something I can either spray on from a can or something I can apply with a brush and can buy for not a whole lot of $$$ (like taking my case to an auto-body shop for a repaint using car finishes isn't really an option).--
Soren Harward
(who's not at his home computer and has forgotten his password)
soren@NOSPAM.cinternet.net
If you think the O2 looks cool, you should try the Visual workstations. As an added feature, they have that door on the front that, when you press on the bottom gently) automatically slide down gracefully revealing the floppy, CDROM, tape, and Power button. More information is available on the SGi web site.
I read the internet for the articles.
Ow! I looked specifically for a motherboard with ISA slots this time around (and didn't see one with 2) I've got an old Ethernet card and Soundard that work just fine, not matter what Intel says
Hey, this is built on my ISA soundcard, how exactly does Intel plan to kill it?
Intel must have a huge hard-on for USB to abandon the MILLIONS of keyboards/mice out there that already use this widely accepted standard
Hopefully I won't have my external modem still when they do this
Or my printer
Good riddance, as long as they replace it with SCSI, Firewire, or Fibre channel (mmmm Fibre Channel) and not USB or some other lame protocol
Why are they waiting so long on this one? Who uses floppies anymore? I guess they're just holding on to this to spite Apple
And replace it with what?
Somehow I doubt this will go over very well with the people who make peripherals. If Intel released some chipset that didn't support any sort of expansion slots, you can bet somebody (maybe IBM) will release one that does. The sever market (not to mention gamers/power users/other computer savvy people) simply won't stand for this.
I read the internet for the articles.
Take a look see here for bunnyless photos. They also design products for Sony, Qualcomm, and others. Neat company. (I saw the web page in one of the photos off of the main articles picture link above, look for it yourself. It may just entertain you like those "Where's Waldo"s of Yore.)
something clever
Yeah, just like those non-upgradeable, inflexible, useless lumps of shit in your garage, home entertainment center, and kitchen.
This sort of "absolute hacker" mentality is absurd. Get over it.
Posted by cnr1089:
There is, it is called Macintosh.
Posted by oNZeNeMo (guns'n ammo):
What about those of us who need access to the innards of our computers? Given the right operating system, I can access my files and run my programs from just about anywhere. All I need is a large cube in my room. A cube that would have all the room I would ever need for hard disks but instead of building it up, building it wide too, so the cables don't have to be crammed in everywhere. I'd also like easy access from all angles without having to disconnect everything inside. No, I don't run my computer with the cover off, it's too noisy (learned my lesson IBM hard disks are the way to go). I have seen cases like this, but never for less than $300.
And seriously, people who want to take their computer places should get a laptop already.
I'm bitter about pickup trucks too. Trucks should be square, tough (as in drop a 1000 lbs rock in the back end and get out of there) and have real transmissions.
I can't beleive the people who fall for the sexy marketing. They are work vehicals, not toys. The Dogde gets more horsepower from the automatic transmission because they take away the torque from the low end. Pickups are about torque not horsepower, they use too much fuel as it willout bruning it away in too low a gear for the speed you are taking.
Which is why My comptuer is in a corner where I can't see it. I look at the monitor, listen to the speakers (which reminds me, I should complile a kernel with sound support some year) type on the keyboard, and get work done. If I wanted a comtpuer to look at I'd get an SGI which form and function go togather, not impeade one anouther.
Hey I would! That fish shaped case looks pretty cool to me. But I like fish.
What? You don't think my one order is enough to pay for all the development and marketing? Oh my!
The Dodge Dakota is hardly a defence for this kind of BS design.
These ugly pieces of crap remind me of all those really tall Toyota and Datsun pickup truks from the early eighties. You know, the ones with the lift kits and huge monster wheels. Poseur cars that never saw dirt. The precursors of the SUV.
The iMac is a beautiful design. Functional and nice to look at. I don't want one but I can respect the designer. These nasty pieces of pretentious crap are just plain annoying.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Unfortunately in this case, they are choosing form to the detriment of function. You can't upgrade these things, aside from possibly adding more ram or maybe a faster processor.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Intel is clearly on the wrong track. They haven't done much lately besides screw up. AMD has been coming on strong and looks like they will continue to improve. I can only hope that they don't try to compete with Intel's idiotic designs by following suit. I hope they will reject the idea that the computer should be as simple to use as your toaster. Integrating everything into one big neon hunk of metal and plastic is just plain stupid. You can't upgrade it beyond a few almost trivial improvements. You have to replace the whole thing, sometimes this even includes the monitor. I've got a monitor that has been doing just fine for over 6 years. I have replaced my box 4 times in that period. Why should I have to replace the monitor too if I don't need a new one?
I don't intend to just shovel my money into their pockets, but that's what Intel seems intent on getting me to do. AMD seems to be going in different directions. Improving the architecture and working to produce faster and faster processors that are cheaper than Intel's. That's where my money will go as long as Intel continues to prove that it doesn't care about my interests or concerns. They can make all the hot pink cases shaped like hearts and flowers that they want. My money goes elsewhere.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Because everybody knows how today's teens are into FISH!!
Why is it that none of these 'geniuses' at intel or Apple or elsewhere have ever come up with an 'all-in-one' design that allows the components to be separated.
One would still need to have a 'made for the iMac montior dock' type case. But, there would still be at least some potential for flexiblity.
Instead, we get an Atari-esque 'you must upgrade the whole thing' sort of mentality going on.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That kind of mentality has been there since the first IBM PC. Suddenly, there was a herd mentality involved with a segment of the computing market. It takes quite a bit to overcome that. Unfortunately, that means even lower common denominator tactics.
When companies can't compete based on quality (and they really can't with software vendorlock), marketing has to take over.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
"These new computers come in a burst of Rainbow Flavors! They are computerific! So simple to use, even a Marketroid can set one up all by itself!"
What really gets me is the herd like mentality of the Marketroids and computer execs."Beige good, must make beige computers."
"Clear bright colors good. Single unit nonexpandable good. Must make bright color single unit computer."
The Imac was popular because it was a good, fresh original design. Why can't Intel, etc. even try to innovate? Because it's expensive and risky, I guess.
This is really going to be great for the signal/noise ratio on the internet. People who buy computers based on looks just pouring onto the Internet. Makes me long for those long lost days of yore when I used an accoustic coupled 300 Baud modem hooked up to a TRS-80 Model 1 to get online with Compuserve. [Wipes nostalgic tear from eye]
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Those are some of the ugliest things I've seen in a while. And I don't just mean the bunnypeople.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Those designs make the iMac look beautiful. Tacky, ugly, and nausiating are three words that come to mind.
Why is it that there have been hardly any really good looking (personal) computers? The NeXTcube was quite nice. The iMac has some apeal, although the colour choice is lacking. There were several slick looking SGI models a few years back. But for the most part, computers are either boring beige, or twisted, horrifying designs like those shown by Intel.
"Tomorrow's forecast: a few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" - Stewie Griffin
But at least mom knows that if her compact's engine takes a crap, she can have a mechanic fix it for her, or have the engine replaced, or whatever. And she'll rest assured when she knows that the parts for her car are easily available at the nearest Pep Boys or Western Auto. Face it, even mom knows that buying a car that has to be replaced in its entirety when it breaks down is a bad deal.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
As many have noted already, these new machines lack the expandability that we've come to get used to from PCs. As we all know, you'd end up having to upgrade the whole thing sooner when the hardware becomes obsolete, instead of incrementally (because the whole thing doesn't really become obsolete all at once). Of course, since Micro$oft is behind this, they all want to do to hardware what M$ has done to software: lock users in an inescapable (?) upgrade cycle, and drain your pockets of dosh in the process.
On an aside, one of the things that always bug me is the thoughtless use of IDE for device attachment. I'd have put SCSI or FireWire in there, instead, and that would instantly provide greater expansion capability, before you add PCI (or your expansion bus of choice).
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
> no slots of any kind whatsoever
This is a GoodThing(tm). Think about it for a second? Do you actually think that the way we do things now (open up the case and plug one circuit board into another) is the right way of doing things?!?!? Do you actually think "normal" people are comfortable with this paradigm.
> integrated monitors and computers were a bad
Again, I think you are wrong here. The future of computers insn't power or flexibility. It's simplicity. And let's face it, the simplest solution is an all in one box.
-Harry
First: yup
Second: I think the actual name for those "tin foil suits" is "bunny suits".
Third: yup
And that's the long and short of it. Pack the box full of closed-spec, licensed-use-only interfaces (USB, FireWire, etc), and guess which OSs *won't* run on it? The ones that aren't written by companies who pay royalties and sign NDAs. Witness the *REAL* attack on Open Source.
And now, thanks to the DMCA, reverse-engineering is illegal! Hurrah!
I know that fragrance... smells like COLLUSION.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
The wording was strange, but I would attribute it to a marketeer who doesn't really understand what he is writing about. There are way too many of them out there. Intel's marketing is really starting to creep me out. I'm glad that I've never bought an Intel CPU.
--Lenny
The people who are manufacturing these cases are trying to appeal to people who:
a) dont own a computer
b) own one but want one to match the couch
They are not trying to sell the poweruser a pink case. They know that you wont buy it, but will instead mock it and the flaming BunnyPeople (deservedly so).
There are two ways to look at this: the more computers that sell, the better, cause it promotes computing as a whole, OR the more pink computers that sell, the worse, because it just leads to more internet load and mindless computer users.
Oh well. I would take one to use as a footrest and / or sendmail server.
Four-digit slashdot ID. Recognize.
Do you know what the world is coming to? We minimize the number of ports in the back of a PC, getting to, say, 2 USB and 2 FireWire ports and an Ethernet. Great. Now we add USB speakers and modem, FireWire monitor, etc, etc.
At this point, we run out of USB ports, so we need a USB hub. Then a FireWire hub. As a result, we end up with a rat's nest of wires.
Duh!
--> Any fool can criticize - and many do --
While Intel is trying to design props for a Luc Besson movie, they're missing their two largest markets:
Mom and Pop. The standard by which all inexperienced users are based. Wants a simple system. So far, so good: the Easy PC initiative was tailor-made for people like Mom and Pop. But show one of those designs to Mom and Pop and you'll either hear "Looks like a Fisher-Price thingamabob!" (my dad) or "But the den's Colonial. That would look tacky." (my mom)
Geeks. You know who you are. After all, you're reading Slashdot. You probably had the same reaction I did: "Finally, cool cases!" Then I saw that they were Easy PCs. Damn. I was hoping for a big, sinister, monolithic full tower to replace the cheesy, afraid-I'm-gonna-break-the-front-panel Gateway tower I have now.
Now, if they could get Martha Stewart and Sid Mead on board...
Keith Russell
Whatever happened to peaceful coexistance?
This sig intentionally left blank.
I for one would like to see more colorful pizzabox designs (ala SGI indy) with accompanying motherboards. I mean all I think that would be needed for the mobo would be builtin scsi, enet, audio, and 1 agp slot. With all the builtin stuff becoming common on some ATX boards why wouldn't it work for the LPX (or maybe it's NTX).
Yes, but that's slower than PCI and slower than the fastest versions of SCSI.
This is not supposed to happen. I think USB traffic is supposed to be prioritised in some way. If you have bad drivers then it might work this way.
Uh, UDMA is just DMA mode 3 (or possibly 4) for ATA IDE.
A CD-ROM.
You can still use a USB floppy drive.
Don't know how you found this, but wow... that is scary...
IAAL,BIANLY
I'm glad to see that companies are starting to think "outside the box." But where do I put my 5 pci cards?
Nice "flexible" design.
Forget these things, I want to do what Dr Ffreeze did, drop my board in mineral oil and cool it down to -30. Case? See that foam cooler in the corner with the A/C attacted to it? Thats MY case baby. Then enjoy as the MarketDriod's look of horror with satisfaction. ~G.
Moderate this post!? You're preaching to the choir! :-)
> Then Dodge came along and made the Ram and
> Dakota sexy, and stylish. Why can't computers be
> the same?
Because the Dodge Ram is still a helluva truck and is still useful as a truck to haul things around in.
On the other hand, these PC's are limited and minimally-upgradable to ensure planned obsolescence. Can you say Packard Bell? I thought you could.
Besides, they're ugly.
And they found out what to do about it. They must have fired their entire engineering staff in a bold new move:
Intel's Bunnypeople[tm] characters fashioned the new PC designs for the PC Fashion Show at IDF.
They've gone to the "Shoemaker and the Elves" model of modern business! Fire all the engineers and have wonderful, magical beings design your products!
Personally, I'm waiting for the BunnyPeople[tm] cartoon to come out.
um, i have a genuine ibm aptiva (dont ask) desktop and was much impressed that the entire thing came in black.
black keyboard, black mouse, black case, black evil-looking 17" monitor. unfortunately, its pretty much impossible to upgrade because they mustve *!@! superglued the screws into the case at the factory. but someone did make cool pcs before this intel thingie (it was given to me sept last year).
incidentally, does anyone know if this was *before* imac? that would be pretty cool. i mean, i know how people here love to bash ibm, but i actually think theyre pretty good...as industry giants go... cmon, copper, matchbox drives, you cant think theyre all bad.
unc_
Also, I am pretty sure that we all decided that integrated monitors and computers were a bad idea a long time ago (except for thos boneheads at Apple). I dunno about the average slashdotter, but my current monitor has lasted me through six different systems. Who (besides the display manufacturers) wants a montitor that has to be upgraded at the same pace as the CPU.
More examples of the manufacturers giving us what they want us to have, instead of what we want them to give us.
-jwb
You guys keep on looking at a lack of upgradability (and those damn bunnypeople) but intel and co aren't looking to sell these things to you. Can you imagine working at CompUSA selling PCs when some red neck comes in and you start your sales pitch but he says "shutup boy, i want that blue one right yonder there"
that is what they are marketing. its pretty and its for the layman.
I'm sure that it'll last for awhile but soon after even the layman will find out that he was screwed and will want more expandability, IMHO anyway.
Besides, I dont think its a bad idea if computers will now be marketed like cars/clothes(albiet a little annoying). It will drasticly(sp?) raise the standard of computer usage to that of the TV or phone, again IMHO.
oh and what were they saying about ease of use? they _were_ talking about windows? hah no comment
-doobman
"KOI - fish shaped for the teenagers"
I'm sorry, but I don't think that any self respecting teenager would get a fish shaped computer, maybe some younger teenage girls, but probably not any guys.
I don't get it - why make a PC attractive at all? why does it have to appear somewhere that I have to consider how it looks or appeals to me? Instead of making them in funky shapes and starburst colors why not build a PC with the formfactor of a mousepad, a really small cube or something inconspicuous. After all if I take off the LCD, the keyboard, the battery and the external packaging of my notebook machine what's left is about as large as a cell phone and that includes the power supply and PC card slots.
The other problem I see if you make something look like a toy people will generally treat it like one - that is if your PC looks like Playstation, for example it will get kicked around like one -do these new cases come with hydrostatic shock absorbers and extremely hard ABS shells?
I gotta chime in with this: The Monorail's problem was simply corner cutting. If they'd built 'em out of decent parts, they'd have been cool little machines. As it was, they blew their wad on the LCD display and had to use utterly crappy compents throughout the rest of the system.
Is it just me, or does this read like the PIII is embedded in the display, sorta like a 68000 or 6501? Poor wording, I guess, but it was a scary thought.
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
I don't get why people get so excited by the stuph at colorcase and their ilk. Its the same boring PC case with a bit of colour thrown on it. It isn't anything special... hell if it wasn't for the NeXTs and SGIs people would assume all computers had to be ugly ass beige cases.
F /...
I am still waiting for someone to make something sleek and stylish enough to where I can place the PC beneath my other stereo componets and have it in the living room. Screw this computers only belong on the desk crap.
---
Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OS
--- I do not moderate.
"The COW goes.....moooooooooo"
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Apple makes machines which, in my opinion, look much nicer than those peices of crap, and you don't see nerds running around in apple suits showing off the design. Mascots are stupid, mascots for computer companies just show how immature and unprofessional they are. Facts get computers sold, not men in tin foil.
I'd like to see some pictures with the Bunny doofuses getting crowned by those new cases.
At least the Bunnypeople(tm) could wear the bunny suites properly. The hoods should be tucked into the suit and not hang on the outside of the suit. Defeats the whole purpose of wearing it. Unless they're trying to hide the models....
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Richard von Weizs
What you want is the SGI flat-panel screen with the Number Nine video card that you have to buy to use it. I think the whole package is around $ 2,800 at a good discount. Gives you 1600x1200 at a price point lower than the competing Viewsonic screen of a similar size, which comes without a card. Fully digital, no analogue anywhere.
D
----
I have wondered about the wisdom of placing serial ports on the motherboard for some time now. My first PC (XT clone) had serial ports on the motherboard and I was worried. Why? Because line driver chips fail. When the serial ports were on a separate card I could toss the card and replace it if the line drivers were socketed. Luckily, when I had a driver fail the chips on that old motherboard were socketed and a quick trip to Radio Trash saved the day. Newer motherboards don't have socketed line driver chips. I guess I'll need to buy a new motherboard if I have a problem with the serial ports on my current system.
Really... what's wrong with keeping ISA for things like mice and serial ports. The ISA bus is certainly capable of handling the I/O needs for those devices.
What do you do when you have a problem with a peripheral when everything's been put on the motherboard or requires USB? It'll be a cold day before I buy another Intel-based system if they're going to force me into hanging a RAID array off USB because they don't think I'm capable of dealing with a circuit board in a slot.
I look around in Computer Shopper at the motherboard ads and I still don't see the motherboards coming with more than 5 PCI slots. I have five slots on my 2-1/2 year old PPro system so the motherboard makers haven't been adding more PCI slots (and I'm out of PCI slots). I'm trying to figure out what my upgrade path is should I decide that my dual PPro is out of gas. A replacement m'board wouldn't have any more I/O capacity and if my growth requires more disk space I'll have to overload the SCSI busses I already have. Oh yes... I'm supposed to buy new motherboards with limited I/O capacity and access everything over a network. Again, there's that bottleneck. Anyone know whether there's an effort to get StorageWorks controllers to work under Linux? You can hang a boatload of disks off an HSZ array controller. Oh... I forgot. I'd still need a slot for the SCSI controller. Guess I'm still SOL.
Is everything going to be forced onto USB? Does Intel understand the potential for performance bottlenecks that they're going to be pushing us into? Are they suggesting that we put everything on USB? If the PS/2 and parallel ports are designated for removal, I'd hate to see my mouse response to go down the tubes because I'm printing a large file.
Users complain now about the tangled mess of cables that they have running out of their computers. Just wait until everything's got to plug into some damned USB hub that's sitting on your desk! Or even worse, sitting on the floor underneath your desk just waiting for you to kick a cable loose. Or worse, the USB cables I've seen look fragile to me.
If Intel wants to help, come up with a design that gives us two I/O busses: low speed for things like mice and asynch ports and high speed for things like video and disks.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
I think the Chtorran ones are less offensive.
The cases look pretty useless, too.
--
--
The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
Looking at these "artistic pieces" and especially at the "engineers" the first thing that comes to my mind is that "I... Outside" sticker with a hole in the middle so you can stick it on top of your "Intel Inside" logo ;-)
/usr/src/linux/include/asm-alpha/bugs.h
;-)
Every time you see x86 or PC please reread
And remember what is written inside
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
This "stylish case" thing won't last since people don't care about looks. The iMac was a Good Thing(TM) since it rolled everything into one and sold it at a cheap price.
Exactly what is the problem with beige, anyway? I always thought most people shoved their computers under their desk to free up desktop space and forgot about it. Black would be better than beige, though.
What we should be doing is focusing on making them smaller, not prettier. If it weren't for the fact that I had just bought a brand new PC last summer, I'd be using a laptop exclusively now since having a flat-panel laptop screen frees up so much desk space. The industry should make something small and easy to take with you when your family goes on a long car trip, etc.
If we are looking for good cases, though, I want mine in a 5 foot tall by maybe 1 foot wide black shiny marble tower.... lots of blinky lights.
Hahaaha.. *shrug* If it runs linux, I'll put it to some trivial task and shove it under my desk with the rest of em.. Think about it.. "This is my DNS bunny. This is my SETI@HOME fish. And, of course, my showpiece, the Squid flower."
--
blue
i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.
I'm sure all those gajillions of AOL users are really, truly concerned with the frame rate of their graphics card, and the megaFLOPS they get with floating point operations.
Gimme a break! So what if people buy computers because they "look cool" (I bet the ease of setup and use of the Mac also had something to do with it, no matter what your friends said). It's not your computer.
Are you the kind of egotist who tells your friends what kind of car to drive? No? Then why are you telling them what kind of computer to buy?
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
Consumer electronics don't get repaired, they get tossed out. VCRs, boomboxes, and now cheapie computers in the $500 range. Face it, electronics don't "break down" all that often; either they fail in the first week of use, or they last three to five years. More than enough time to get the value back.
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
Lots of pooh-poohing of these designs going on. Gosh, they're not upgradable, the monitor's built in, et cetera. Seems there's a cultural divide here.
... well, when mom wants a car she gets a compact that will let her pick up her groceries. It has a reliable Japanese engine that will go 100,000 miles as long as you go to Jiffy Lube every other month. Mom never opens the hood; face it, Mom doesn't want to open the hood. Even if you're a mechanic, she'd rather not have to depend on your being around if it seizes up. She just wants to pick up the groceries.
Can we all agree that slashdotters want hot rods for themselves? All of us probably know what a standard PC looks like inside, at the very least. Most of us can upgrade one; maybe we can do it in the dark. Maybe we leave our case covers off so we can do it with less hassle. The latest graphics card; the most efficient EIDE controller. Overclocking. Ultracooling. One more operation per microsecond is worth an afternoon's twiddling.
But for mom
That's what these computers are.
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
a low foot print PC how about putting the processor and components in the base of the LCD display or something. Low footprint PCes arent meant for me or you to upgrade, they are for businesses of users that need as much usable space on their desk as possible. Maybe some of you also looked in the back of PC magazines and remember the keyboard footprint PC. All the components fit inside the keyboard and would run Windows or Linux. How about something like this inside the base of an LCD or something, my desk is covered in hardware, a monitor, tower, printer, cable modem, ect.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
I'm just waiting for the penguin-shaped VARstation.
Their roadmap to remove "Legacy Technology":
I'll admit that some of these technologies are a little dated, but removing all user-accessible slots means that a whole lot of old but functional hardware is going to be useless. Doesn't Intel realize that the interchangeable nature of PC parts led to the commodity market for them in the first place? Intel wouldn't be half the size it is today if IBM had just made all PCs with no user-accessible slots.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Am I the only one who wants to see "Listen to the Flower People" used in an M$ commercial as "Listen to the Bunnypeople"? ;-)
Having a fun day!
Laugh while you can, monkey boy!
The computer industry isn't mainstream? The sales figures at places like Compaq and Dell would tend to disagree. Computers are ubiquitous, and they are, by and large, ugly. If I want my computer to run like some far-out futuristic technology, I would love it if it looks like some far-out futuristic technology.
Function and form are _not_ mutually exclusive goals.
I saw the bottom middle picture with the caption "The FLEX Design by InSync is a flexible unit allowing you to take the desktop from the office to the home conveniently" and all that came to mind was:
Is that "bunnyman" giving a nazi "Sie Hiel"?
<opinion>probably saw gates comin on stage</opinion>
I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going.
I would like to see a high end, accelerated video card with no analog technology anywhere in the loop - a digital interface to the motherboard, digital processing, and a digital signal to a digital (lcd flat panel) monitor.
For sound, how about a card that does exactly zero analog processing anywhere (for a really clean signal) and gives a 5+1 output like dolby digital, or some other digital output that can be fed into a home audio system for decoding and amplification.
What do y'all think?
Vidi, Vici, Veni
obviously, as a high school grad about to pay his own way through college, it will be a loooong time before I could actually buy something like that, but it's still fun talking about it. grin
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Hah. and you call me the troll.
Listen pal, I have a B.S. in Computer Science, I've been using computers since 1982 and Linux exclusively on at least one machine since 1993. I help people fix their PC's one way or another about once a week. BTW, I've been using the same case for my main Linux machine since my very first installation in 1993. Coming from someone who crammed 6 hard disks into one mini tower I can speak from experience on what sucks about PC cases.
Personally I dont care for those cases on the intel site but I am interested in others that will come out for the FlexATX form factor. You ever own a NeXT? (I have 3) or a SparcStation 2/4/5/10/20 ? these are low footprint well designed machines, and the SparcStations are even upgradeable with Sbus slots that run parallel to the board. PC's are nice, but they're pretty badly designed machines when it comes to wasting space. If I can get a Linux machine the size of a Playstation, I'll be thrilled, I'll be able to fit more of them under my desk.
-Rich
PC's are ugly. There's no working around this fact. Beyond the fact that they are ugly, they're also not very functional on the inside. Too often wires have to be run across things messing up ventillation and cluttering up the inside. A PC with all the I/O it will need built inside? Bring it on! Personally I think those things are terribly ugly, but I'm sure more reasonable cases will be forthcoming. Once motherboard manufacturers build in SCSI instead of IDE, I'll be the first in line.
-Rich
#define RANT
What the hell is it with these god damn curvy, "sleek" cases? I basically treat my box like a piece of furniture, there's stuff stacked on it, I put it on the bookshelf, I stack books against it (mindfull of the ventilation holes, of course). Can't do that as nicely with a lot of new cases. It's not hard to find a nice rectanglular x by y by z case, but these odd shaped ones, I think, have got to go.
#undef RANT
I'd rather have a rackmount case.
I like to play children's songs in minor keys.
"We're all sons of bitches now." --J. Robert Oppenheimer
I've spent a hell of a lot of time in the last year looking for a SMALL computer that I could buy two or three of, put them on a shelf, and use them for specific purposes (NAT, Samba, and Oracle development). I want separate computers because that's the way I want it. I want them small because it's STUPID (IMHO) to waste all that space on single-purpose gadgets. I'd like them to be as quiet as possible. I won't pay extra for color because if I want'em colored I'll damned well paint'em myself!
I don't particularly care about expansion slots if there are USB and/or firewire devices to do what I need. A firewire-to-ethernet gadget would be lovely and the bus is more than up to the challenge. Heck, with the next generation or two of firewire, there's no reason you couldn't put the video card on the 1394 bus! Think about it...you buy a monitor that has a replacable video card, and you just plug a pure digital cable into the back of your PC.
Intel is doing what it's doing because Intel wants to destroy any chance of 3rd parties taking over its part of the business. I don't like that. I don't particularly like the specifice devices they've designed. HOWEVER, I *do* like the design "direction" if they'd just turn it down a notch. Give me a small PC with limited expandability at a low cost. Then I can buy five or six of the little buggers and do with them whatever I wish!
Most of the complaints I've read here are from people who are obsessed with the current way of doing things, hardwarily. It's kind of disappointing because this same crowd is pretty much rife with people who want to innovate softwarily! Why do you have to have slots IN the computer if you have externally available buses that can handle all the bandwidth you need?
Please forgive me for the post that rambles all over the place. It's a stream of consciousness thing.
re: Second: I have no idea - but it could be interesting coming up with various things to do to the bunny people dolls Intel sells.
re: Third: I'd say *bad* advertising is evil. The ads that make it obvious that they care nothing for the customer but just want your money. Their advertising comes from soulless advertising corporations that are willing to gloss over important facts (lie), play to people's basest insticts (sex, greed, fear - "buy this car and you too will be hip and get the chicks"), anything goes if it will bring in that almighty dollar.
But I have to believe there are some people doing business that have good products and services, that honestly want to help people while making a living, etc. There must be examples of their advertising around somewhere, right? Good advertising that doesn't try to manipulate people other than informing them of their business, perhaps using humor as the hook. Can anyone think of examples? --- Please?
For all of the non-tech types I've talked to about getting a PC (dozens or so), future expandability - or more accurately upgradability to stave off obsolescence - *was* a factor in their considerations. Just not as a high a factor as "just make it work so I don't have to fiddle with it". I think most people realize computers get old quick and they want to make the most of their money too. But there's a relationship between price and features - if PCs get cheap enough, more (common) people won't mind replacing them more often. Sure it won't be the longest lasting PC they could get, or the most feature-filled, but if it fulfills the first priority of ease of use/maintenance and is cheap, they'll pay. So if the prices remain relatively high, more people will want more capable/upgradable machines, otherwise more will go for the simpler, cheaper machines and other factors will come into play - like what shade of fuscia goes best with the drapes...
The range of PC types may slide down toward the cheaper closed systems where the profits are in volume sales, but there'll still be a number of better systems - they'll just cost more.
I think there's a place in the computing world for these "all-in-one" things. Although a Mac user, I dislike the iMac. However, I think it's perfectly fine for non-geek computer buyers who are 90% unlikely to upgrade anything ever. I think these PC's will do fine filling in that same market.
Just like Slashdot stories you're not interested in, all you gotta do is avoid them.
All translucent macs come with on-board IDE now. The only new mac that still has on-board SCSI is the Powerbook. SCSI macs are still in such demand, however, that you'll still see beige (SCSI) macs on sale for the same prices as the new macs, even with slower busses and processors.
I thought that one of the points of USB and Firewire (1394) was to provide a standard bus for interconnecting components that didn't have to be inside the same box. I agree that all-in-one motherboards are a bad idea, but I don't think that internal buses are the final word either. My impression when I first heard about the new buses was that you'd have a bunch of external components cabled to the processor unit. A video processor would be in its own case rather than in the sytem box, but still have as good a connection to the CPU. You want the latest 3d technology? Unplug a couple of cables from the old unit, connect them to the new, and you're done as quickly as you can get a modern case open. Easier to connect than fitting a card into a slot. Daisy-chain components, connect them to hubs, whatever; the adressing scheme will sort everything out.
Yeah, these cases are a little far out there. I'm sure someone will introduce a more conservative design. Hey, what about producing stackable components in a standard size? Stack the CPU module, a couple of hard drives, a network interface, and a video processor, shove it under your desk. Wire it to the hub on your desktop to connect it to your keyboard, monitor, DVD-ROM, etc. Hot swap peripherals as you need them. Want a laptop? Put everything you need on the road in one case like it is now, but plug it into the hub when you get home. Or plug it into anyone else's hub on an office visit without worrying about compatibility.
Yeah, I'm getting way into pipe dream territory here. Still, I think some of these ideas might be the way Intel is trying to go.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
The idea of replacing the old ISA/PCI/AGP/whatever interface with USB and Firewire is that you can upgrade without going into the case. You just cable a buch of components together. On my current home PC, I'm using every IRQ, the hard drive cables just barely reach, the CD to sound card cable runs dangerously close to the CPU fan, etc. I'd be much happier to be able to daisy-chain or hub-connect components where I need them.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
IIRC, FireWire was intended to support daisy-chaining. In addition, I think it has an addressing scheme that allows you to add any component anywhere in the chain. If anything, I'd think you'd end up with no more cabling than you have now, and more flexibility to arrange wires so they don't form a rat's nest. Finally, 1394 also supplies some power, so you won't have to fuss with power cords and transformers for speakers, scanners, etc.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
Well, it looks like computers are finally getting to look as weird as they do in sci-fi films.
It's pretty interesting when you think that in 2010, your typical home computer will look something like that. (Of course, this impression came mostly from the "Intel concept PC" design-- the others look like the work of a lousy postmodernist. The bunnypeople didn't help either)
But dangit, I'm still waiting for someone to make a rad-hard case! I don't want any idiot with a EMP weapon to kill my uptime!
iSKUNK!
I might try and stuff a new Motherboard and such into my Aptiva case. I like how it looks, and it matches my sweet 21" monitor....how fashionable! Time to do some measuring....
Blar.
I've found many sweet looking cases on the 'net. The only thing is, I can never tell if they'll match up with my motherboard. I don't want the heartache of ordering a slick new case to find out my stuff won't fit. All the local computer fairs only seem to have the generic beige boxes...I'm a form-follows-function kind of guy, but hey, if I'm dropping a couple grand on a fast PC, I want it to look good too!
Blar.
http://www.sgi.com/o2/
:)
I really think that computing should be a fun
thing and those clunky old x86 boxes don't fit
in to a creative atmosphere unless you rack them
in something black and spray paint
"render up your XXX" on the side
=derek
Think about it. Same colorful if somewhat shapeless forms. Same prancing about meaninglessly. Same telescreens (although moved up from the tummy to the face area with the bunny people). Hmm, and 'Intel bunny', 'tele-tubby' (the 'n' and 'b' keys are right next to each other on the keyboard). Coincidence? I don't think so.
Although the Intelebunnies seem to have had their antennae amputated.
Don't step in the tubby custard!
-- Alastair
When buliding my machine, I just got a slick
black case from A-Pro. Sweet design with
sliding front door. Black monitor, black
keyboard, and black mouse to go along. I
just *had* to go as far away from the standard
beige or white as I could...
Computers should either be nice and subtle
(but non-white), or interesting like the SGI
O2. Now there is a good design.
-Mike
--- witty signature
Now I'm thinking back on the good ol' days of waiting for the tape to rewind on my Mod I so I could play a Scott Adams Adventure... or the weeks waiting patiently for my first all in one box (the ever popular Mod III) to come in so I could have DUAL disc drives.... Thanks for the nostalgia, Now I have to go home and dig up those forgotten relic s of yore JUST to see what I could do with them now:^)
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
blow up picture atC N22399o.jpg
ftp://download.intel.com/pressroom/images/news/
2 ram slots. no pci..
I'm sure it uses intel video chips too.
Then the first thing you should do is eliminate that ancient x86 processor design. Hehe. I'd bet intel would love that. Of course, they are working on Merced, so maybe they have some sense. But I've yet to see convincing evidence that merced will be any faster than an Alpha, and it will certainly be more expensive.
I am not an idiot. Please use my name to email me.
"That's right, I'm quoting myself."
-Upsilon
Good. Right. Take a look at what's inside it.
500mHz processor (let's save the X86 vs whoever holy war for somebody else, 'specially since PowerPC 0wnZ...; )
USB port
FireWire port
Not listed, but CERTAINLY a no brainer, would be a 100bt Ethernet port. I'll go on record and say that I can find uses for such a box. If it has a sufficiently good video card, it could easily replace my current PC. I don't like serial ports. I don't like PS/2 ports. ISA slots are vile. PCI slots, while utilitarian, are mostly (in my box) for correcting shortcomings of the motherboard.
You say that it's cheaper to replace a net card or a modem or a video card than the whole computer. You're absolutely right. But, if you can buy a mobo whose video performance is, say, 90% of whatever state of the art video card is this week, for the same price as that video card, why is this bad?
In closing, YOU don't have to buy one. : ) PLENTY of companies out there are nipping at Intel's heels with open standards. For my money, it's the only Intel product I've EVER been really interested in. (I don't count the Celeron 300A, because that's only interesting if you overclock it to ludicrous speed, and Intel doesn't like that. : )
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I just changed the oil in my VAXstation 3200. That thing really does sound like a jet engine, weighs 80-90lbs, and is beige. The actual case is all zinc flashed sheet metal, that slides into a big plastic thing. It uses MFM and DSSI and QBUS. I don't use it (I have a 3100 that's a whole lot smaller) but it looks and sounds cool. I didn't actually change the oil, but it's due in 1000KM.
You have a point. I personally would never buy a PC looking like that, but my 12 year-old-sister probably would (she did buy my Micron P2-450, which had a pretty funky, microATX case).
My only real gripe with them is that the consumer ultimately gets ripped off. A computer with no PCI expansion slots is basically worthless 6-9 months after it's bought. At least with standard ATX cases, the joe-user can give his local guru a call and say "Hey, my PC I bought 6 months ago won't play Quake 3! Upgrade me!" or (horrible, but I say this to prove a point) Joe-user can take it to Best Buy and have them upgrade it.
Either way, they still get more life out of their machine without having to scrap the "unit" they have for a new one. PC's change way to quick for this to be cost-effective for the consumer.
No, thank you, the BunnyPeople(tm) are cool indeed.
Then Dodge came along and made the Ram and Dakota sexy, and stylish. Why can't computers be the same? They still do their job for the _majority_ of people. I think most of you guys on here don't like the fact that more and more new computer users are popping up everyday. These "newbies" want something they can check their e-mail, surf the internet, and play some games on.
Not all of us program, not all of us care what else we could be doing. We buy the computer because it runs the software we need. Whether Macs for us Graphics people, of PC's for you coders, hackers, and hardware tinkerers. I love both equally, and I'm a big beleiver in "the right tool for the right job".
Whew... I guess my main point is this: There will always be the basic beige ATX boxes for the hardware enthusiasts, there will always be an OS to fit your needs, and there will (and should) always be a choice on aethetics.
nick
-------------------------------------
I couldn't help but throw out a few "slashdot-esque" comments about these cases:
1) How long until we have kernel support for them?
2) Wow! Someone should build a beowulf cluster of systems with these cases! (And wouldn't THAT be the most butt-ugly pile of flourescent hardware ever....)
3) Who cares? I keep my overclocked Celeron motherboard in a shirt box I took from my dad's closet. I cool it with a desktop fan blowing through a modified coil from a Whirlpool refrigerator. It's hooked up to a T1 and serves over 50,000 web hits a day without breaking a sweat....
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
They don't wear the bunnysuits because of toxicity. They wear them because the chips are manufactured in a cleanroom environment and they can't get any dust or skin flakes or hair in them.
We just got two 42" monitors at work.
They're Mitsubishi's, though.
Very, *VERY* sweet.
You can program them in basic..and they come complete with remote controls...
IEEE.1394 == FireWire(TM) which is ownded by apple. And we all know how apple is about their trademarks, hence IEEE.1394. So the computer will have FireWire btw and USB which I think is the way to go. USB for Mouse/Joystick/Keyboard/Zip/Printer/scanner Slow items no need for speed. Firewire for HD/sound/DVD/CD/ORB/??? Firewire may prove these computer to be more upgradeable than we might think. I dont know how FireWire works, but what is stopping 3Dfx to make a firewire 3D accelerator?
http://www.flat-tv.com/index2.html
Removing ISA support gives a speed increase to the rest of the system. Some motherboards already allow disabling it.
Good riddance I say (although I'd need a new NIC and soundcard... my current ones have lasted 3 computers).
Personally, I'd just prefer an old-fashioned box over one of those fancy thangs, although the new blue and white G3's look awesome. Having those jumpsuit guys in every picture sure doesn't help my interest. Something about them makes me want to explode.
No! Of course they aren't. They're just....bunny people. You know how it is with bunnypeople.
I think a common theme throughout the comments so far is that the BunnyPeople[tm?] really piss us off.
That thing is odd...
It kinda looks like a 'SimCity' map...
Dammit, I'm bitter now.
--
What if intel decides to not open the specifications for drivers to part of their hardware? Almost as bad, what if they have an extended delay before releasing them. Think how long the i740 chipset was on the market before there was X server support for it. The unexpandable, unswappable nature of these machines makes their owners extremely vunerable to those kind of tactics.
Take a look at the PC9x standards Microsoft and Intel jointly develop, these standards not only include getting rid of the ISA bus, PS2 mouse and KB, printer and serial ports, they also include the gradual movement of "specialty" processors' features like sound, 3d, video capture on to the main processor. In essence, they want to make all devices "win-"devices. Like win-modems and win-printers these win-devices would _of_course_ require a large amount of code to be present in the drivers to handle everything that would normally be in the hardware. This code is hard to write and often the algorhythms are patented. Just look at the explanations as to why Linux doesn't support win-modems and probably never will.
I also absolutly hated all but one of the designs they came up with. I liked the one that had a very small base with the LCD attached, it looked like it would make a decent X terminal for my girlfriend so we can play freeciv without that damn windoze X server.(this is all assuming that I would be _able_ to use it with X)
If you want something for your stereo I would suggest getting a FIC Oasis, it's a motherboard/case/MediaGX combo that is very small and black spray paint goes on it's case pretty well. I helped a friend make one, he uses it as a mp3 player for his stereo.
My computer is a big ol' beige fulltower with all of the PCI and ISA slots filled
Two words...
not expandible(sp?). I hate that when there there is no place for expansion hardware. Thats half the fun of a computer is seeing how many harddisks and graphics cards you can cram into them.
just bitter at work
Sean
ps I hate the jumpsuit freaks too, but what does bunnypeople mean?
Honestly, it's like shooting a fish in a barrel. Twice. With an Elephant Gun. At point blank range. In the head. -
i hate to be an uncool stick in the mud -- but didn't we see these damned cases on /. a few weeks ago? minus the bunny people. i guess that was the clones. it's all a bit deja vu if you ask me.
looks like geeks just officially went mainstream. super-cool. the writing was on the wall. roll on the wannabe tryhard geeks..."i really was a geek at school. i was a misunderstood introverted genius with no social skills who managed to fake really well...sad. sad. sad. there are no sacred areas when the marketers come rolling into town. the dollar is GOD.
do they have cool handbags to go with those ever so cool cases yet?
BLAMMO shaken not stirred
I can't believe the comments I am reading: granted, the Bunnymen are creepy as hell, the cases arent the prettiest thing ever designed, but the idea is good: do away with old, obsolete standards, make PCs more attractive to John Q Public.
;-) More people -> bigger market for companies -> lower per unit costs (amortization anyone?) -> lower prices. Also, more Net-users means more bandwidth not less... when the other 70% of the USA (much less the world) gets online, then it would make more sense for telecomms to bring fiber to our doorsteps...
;-) but I'd like to see plans for Linux on FlexATX boxes ASAP...
Planned obsolescence is good; it cuts down on unit prices for IHVs and OEMs. Those savings are bound to trickle down to the consumer in this hyper-competitive industry of ours... And flexible systems will still be around for people like us --and business users. We may have to pay a premium for them, but the cost savings from the more high-performance hardware will more than make up for it.
More people on the Internet is also good (can't anybody around here remember the pre-1994 days? yeah, when 2400 baud rained supreme... not much on the Net back then, huh? unless you count wuarchive or fsp
But the real kicker is that this could be the best thing that ever happened to Linux: these idiot-proof boxes (that will probably boot straight into AOL) need rock-stable, maintenance free OSes... Now, that means win9x is out, so MS can load them with either CE or NT. Problem is neither of these does the second killer-ap (after Net access): games. On the other hand, Linux can be trimmed down to fit on those little playthings, and Linux game support is already taking off... I am not even a Linux user yet (I am working on it
Just my $.02
I don't believe I have seen anyone mention what I think is the ultimate danger in the commoditization of computing - the marginalization of the tech computer user vis-a-vis the loss of market share.
Some of you have said, "These designs suck. I'll still keep buying plain old beige towers and config them my way" or "I sure hate the loss of slots in these new machines. But I will still keep on using machines with them so I can upgrade". Assuming, of course, that add-on hardware like we are used-to today is still on the market, e.g., you can still buy an after-market motherboard, video card, modem or hard drive.
How much after market add-on, user-installable hardware do you think will be made once Intel has converted the industry over to Legacy-Free computing. Now, legacy-style computer sales are 100% ( - Imac sales ). If Intel has its way, in a few years there won't be any computers with slots or traditional ports being sold. And, everyone in the industry believes/hopes that the volume of systems shipped will greatly increase as these new computers finally attract the vast-majority of people that don't own a computer now. So systems assembled using legacy components will present an ever diminishing market share.
I am afraid that, then, our kind of expandable computer will vanish into economic insignificance. The marketing/business geniuses that run companies will say that, "While our $50 million/year legacy SCSI/IDE business was profitable and supported an active community of legacy users, we have decided to pursue the greater opportunities offered by the new Intel PC2005 NanoDrive standard. We see a potential for great growth and increased stock value in this $225 billion global market." Businesses are in business to make money. When there are 10 million users like us and a billion users of non-legacy hardware, whom do you think they will service?
I don't have an MBA, but I am sure I read this in some business text:
"You don't try to sell to all customers - just the right customers."
where "right" == the ones that produce the greatest revenues with the least marketing/support expenditure.
I don't imagine all manufactures will abandon the add-on market - you can still buy parts for classic automobiles. But, you don't get commodity prices once the mass market has moved on. If new add-on legacy hardware is still made, it will probably have premium prices.
One can only hope that when this day comes, the machines will truly be cheap enough to throw away when you want that new Voodoo12 4D VR chipset-based system. Or like one person said here - just have a shelf full of these machines each doing some one thing.
hws
This is my first post - so please be gentle.
I am shocked that anyone would see these cases as a good idea. What works for Apple might not work for the world. How many of you would have bought a one-piece Intel-based PC with a 9-inch b&w monitor in 1990? Probably none. Yet look at all the Mac classics and classic II's out there even today. One piece macs work for the consumer to the extent that most aren't looking for the guts, and they don't care about the whole "fastest video card with version 1.88 drivers! Woohoo!". The iMac works because you can just sit down and relax in front of it, and have fun with it. I've set many people up with iMac's, and they are happy with the colors, the speed, and the efficient, *smart* design. Intel's idea of good design was very well encapsulated in a previous reply: Versaci. Real people don't like or wear Versaci designs. They're more likely to say "ugh" upon seeing one. You don't see models in 1997 Versaci.
_ __
Intel will soon be king of the Computer catwalk (I'm too sexy for my mobo, too sexy for my crt, too sexy...). Visions of Bunnymen (a bunch o' PoliCor crap)shaking their asses as they strut down the runway with a hunk of painted plastic makes me want to vomit into the mouth of Intel marketing. Their chips suck, their mobo's suck, their video cards suck, and most of all, their ideas on case design suck. If you couldn't tell, I'm shooting for a score of 7, Godlike Wisdom.
Vidar
_______________________________________________
Soon, Intel will decide to make a new case design, building off of the popularity of parachute pants.
The brains of a chicken, coupled with the claws of two eagles, may well hatch the eggs of our destruction.
What kinda shit is this? I want a backplane system that is cheap - I want to be able to expand my system, so that next time I have the money for a new MB, I would get one, and plug it into the backplane - and increase my total power. Why hasn't such a system been made for home/business use? Many older machines used this kind of design - why don't we see such a thing today?
On another note - the one about trucks - I like a good truck dammit - and I don't care what it looks like, or what kind of options it has - just as long as it has the power to do what I need, and a large bed - I want to be able to put a stack of 4x8 plywood back there if needed - or a half cord of wood for my fireplace. And fuck leather seating - what is it with these yuppie mo'fos anyhow?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
There is (used?) to be a company here in Portland, OR (USA) that did air brushing and film overlays on cases. A matched set (cpu, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers) isn't too cheap, but the holographic film overlay on my workstation is damned cool.
Does anyone else here remember the attempt made a couple of years ago at a PC with a form quite similar to these concept PCs? Yes, I am talking about the Monorail PC...
I remember these little buggers, since I was the owner of one - thought that it would be a good, cheap way to have a PC that I could move with me without having to splash out for a laptop, and indeed it was this, but I grew to hate it. I should have known better than to get a PC whose warranty would be voided should I decide to open the case! When a damaged power supply (non-standard of course) which was not worth it to repair ended the functional life of this box, I vowed never again to buy a PC with proprietary componentry...
However, I talked to a stock broker that LOVED these things - he used them on the trading floor where space is at a premium. In instances such as this I can see that all-in-ones could be useful, but still abhor them personally...
The company took a huge hit on these as well. Their sales were sluggish, which could be due to the half-ass componentry that was used but regardless of the reason it nearly brought down the company. The question remaining is; will these PCs sell when the next push comes around? Maybe, but not to wireheads and people who LIKE the ability to take the case off their computer without becomming a thought criminal.
It may be of interest that here in Japan, where it is my impression that computers are treated more as fixed units than as configurable machines, a number of proprietary form factor (read - not user configurable) machines are selling quite well. If this trend will be followed in the US remains to be seen...
I am hoping that these "cure computers" go the way of my momorail and end up as nothing other than an unplesant memory...
+++ ATH0 +++
Aw, crap. I had first post, but slashdot screwed up my login!
My real post:
I don't see why they make these computors that have limited upgradability, even if they do look good. It's like the iMac. It runs fast now, but in the long run, it's a bad deal. A better idea is at http://www.colorcase.com/ I especially like the Time Machine!
Aw, crap. I had first post, but slashdot screwed up my login!
My real post:
I don't see why they make these computors that have limited upgradability, even if they do look good. It's like the iMac. It runs fast now, but in the long run, it's a bad deal. A better idea is at www.colorcase.com. I especially like the Time Machine!
I am so sick of marketroids trying to make computer hardware look stylish! My Cisco 675 looks like pregnant, mutated radar detector. The new HP tower cases are shaped like an ass cheek! What gives?
I want a *SEXY* computer. Sexy computers are black. They are big (2.5' by 2.5 by 3.0'). They have lots of blinking lights. They have *TOGGLE SWITCHES* on the front! The have a *COOLANT LEVEL* that needs to be monitored. They have more CPU's than my calculator has buttons! They have imposing names like UniDeath Model 6342-XMP. They have hardware specs full of acronyms like RAID, BSP, SCSI, SMP and SP. They sound like a jet engine when they power up! They consume more energy than your average clothes dryer! Most importantly they're so damn fast, they _disembowel_ fashionable desktop PC's!
Feel free to moderate this post to hell.
-------------------
May a falling S390 land on the dancing "Bunnies"
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
BunnyPeople? Neo-postmodern design cases with cards poking out? What were these people thinking?
It sounds as if they let loose a Versace-wannabe on a few computer cases. You know the kind. "Oh, what the hell is that mouse thingie for? Didn't computer geeks learn to accessorise? Off with the mouse thingie! And what about that TV? TV is sooo eighties, pumpkins!"
This seems as natural to me as a cross between Bill Gates and Pamela Anderson. The percentage of malleable plastic is about right.
"There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."
I'll admit you do have some valid points [YOU ANONYMOUS COWARD!! :) ], but I'll make some counterpoints to defend my analogies:
1) You are correct in that a corvette with a metro engine wouldn't sell, but neither would an Edsel that handled like a 'Vette.
2) Girls and cars, historically, have had selling power on their looks as well as what's "under the hood"--regardless if this is moral or not. No one would say that the VW Beetle was the best handling car ever, but its mass popularity caused a re-release twenty years later.
But no, I wouldn't recommend Windoze to a new computer user. Nor to much of anyone, for that matter.
-
You know, the thing that has always set the computer industry apart was that it WASN'T mainstream. You don't see commercials with bikini babes fondling monitors; you don't see advertisements at baseball games for the latest video accelerators. Public advertising tends to target the lowest common denominator in American society, and the PC industry--until recently--has managed to escape that fate. Frankly, I liked it that way.
Then came the iMac.
Suddenly, people I know started getting iMacs because, in their exact words, "they looked cool." I think I shuddered each and every time I heard that. Girls look cool. Cars look cool. Art (occasionally) looks cool. The main selling point of a computer should NOT be that it looks cool. We've all heard the age-old adage, "Don't judge a book by it's cover."
Well, don't judge a computer by one either. Take a look at what's inside, and not the idiots in day-glow radiation suits dancing around it.
-
when you can just go out and buy a pointlessly large beige case? At least that way, your comuter gets to be a tough guy bragging thing "My computer's overclocked to 800 MHz", "Oh yeah, well mine's 10 feet tall!" rather than; "My computer's prettier", "Oh yeah, well beauty's in the eye of the beholder!". bigger == better as far as i'm concerned. If you really need color, then chrome your case.
OK the cases are cool, but they sure as hell aren't functional. I'll stick with the putty cases until they are. But I don't exactly think your typical slashdotter is in their marketing segment...
Campaign for Liberty
I think I'll paint my computer case. Perhaps a pastel color so it matches my beige mouse and hardware devices such as CDROM.
Coworker has two of the dolls, but the whole
thing with the suits totally spooks me out.
How is it that the insanely toxic nature of
this industry can become so pop and sexy.
This is the beginning of a time where computers
aren't so much machines anymore as much as they
are plastic pals that are fun to be with.
The Revolution. Now available as a convienent six tape series from PBS.