Slashdot Mirror
New Linux Game needs Developers
shaggs writes "Time City is an open source, linux, 1st person action game, that will have time travel, network capabilities and more. We are currently looking for volunteers for all aspects of this project, and we need you the community to help. If you have any talents to offer us, visit Time City and sign up to volunteer today! "
This looks pretty cool. It will use the Crystal Space engine and be openly developed. With all the positive
exposure Linux has gotten, gaming is one of the areas where Linux is not well developed yet.
Free, high quality games could easily turn this around.
Please support the use of alternate text in the image tag.
Thanks!
Hrm... guess who uses winbloze. :-P
You see the Linux community supports this little ethic called open source. For the most part, no money is involved, or at least money is no real object.
No... money is an object. That is all everyone cares about is money... or at least 99% of everyone. If money weren't an object, linux would still be an OS that only certain people know about and use. Without CORPORATIONS like RedHat, Linux might not have gotten so much criticism, both good and evil. Also, saying "winbloze" is very much like going around calling everyone "gay"... if you don't know what I mean by that, it is too late for you...
... to get to know Victoria in PR :-) She looks cute, except for the gun she is brandishing in the photo.
Sounds like you don't care much about anyone but yourself. You only get 70 or 80 years; why not make it count? Life if better here.
> Also, saying "winbloze" is very much like going
> around calling everyone "gay"
Last time I checked, products don't have feelings which can be hurt. If you hadn't noticed, most of us have problems with Windows on technical grounds (I for one need Linux so I can test code on my PC for use on SGI/Cray servers, on which NT will not run). Many of us also have moral difficulties with M$ business practices.
Nicknames form a convenient shorthand for these positions.
Yet another project with no coders, no artists, no musicians, no planners, no designers, but plenty of great ideas like "network play with really cool 3d graphics".
Linux is chockers full of damn wannabes. Why don't you write some code *before* announcing how great your project is. If you don't have any coders then YOU DONT HAVE ANY PROJECT.
And the pathetic guise of "but we're looking for people" is too lame for words.
This isn't slashdot material. Then again, given slashdot's recent track record, maybe it is.
That's amazing! Not only will I be able to use this program to travel through time, but I can network it too!
Keen!
-AC!
!
The "Great, just what we need" post from above basically says it all about this project. Interested in what they've done (or haven't done if you will), I went through their site. It seems like they have a big "staff" so I guess they don't need more people. The site was done by a commercial company. Wouldn't it be easier to have a bad looking web page and use the money to pay to learn how to program and do graphics?
The people doing this project seem very conceited. They have a page devoted to Time City fans and a place for celebrities to do death screams!? Shouldn't they worry about getting some initial programming done first before working on this other BS? Yes, inspiration is key to greatness, but it fails if they don't have the inspiration to do any work themselves first. Depending primarily on volunteers for a project is a bad example for open source.
I would say this is a site worthy for Geocities, but even game programmers hosting their site on Geocities have a working product!
there are "no feasable" ways to prevent client-side cheating, if you keep the code open source, although certainly it's a non-trivial problem.
The WorldForge folks (www.worldforge.org) seem to have been working on an interesting solution to this.
'Course, you can always use the old Netrek method of "signed" clients, although this'd probably be a chore...
I for one would not really find a game project worthwhile unless it allowed *some* level of hacking on the code.
Playing games is fun, but I like _tinkering_ with them - adding new graphics and sound, fixing bugs I find, adding custom UI features, and so forth.
I'd also like to be able to download the source and set up my *own* version of the game for my friends, with my own custom rules, world design, and AI.
Open the Games!
Open source isn't just for code, now is it? They've posted a really great idea and they're looking for coding help now. That's fine. If you ask me, good ideas are more crucial to games than they are systems. Just look at all of the 3d engines that were cranked out 2 or 3 years back. The game itself means a lot more than the engine.
So, how about tossing around more great ideas (i.e. a discussion) and I think the code will fall right out!
Ahem, this is also the ploy of startup companies (great ideas) and investors pour millions into them.
Instead of bashing people for taking some initiative to try something out, why don't you help contribute or release some code yourself?
I'm glad that people are willing to share their project ideas and encourage the help of others. That is after all what brought Linux to where it is.
So, don't smash people's hopes just because what they're doing doesn't fit your notion of the right way. History says that some of the most unusual and immediately putdown ideas end up succeeding grandly. I'm not going to criticize when I myself haven't figured out the secret to good code yet!
I know quake is great and it would remain great for a long time. But do we really need yet another 3d shooter? And that too for free OSes/blah. The idea of taking a gun and shooting people over and over doesnt really keep me glued to a computer for days, I like something more challanging, a bit of puzzle a bit of intrigue a bit of adventure. I know that a lot of people, including myself, would help a software project if it invloved something along the line of an adventure game. How about a 3d mud? I've started mudding lately (yes this is a geek passtime still) and just done see why a couple of us cant fix together a really nice, mud that evolves right in front of our eyes (that too in 3d, along the lines of everquest.. but free ofcourse). Or single player adventure, but since we geeks are more interested in networking, I suppose a multiplayer version would be much more entertaining. 3d shooters should be left to the master , I dont really think there is much life in that genre.. well not for a geek.. (i still like quake though). My sugguestion to to these guys is to withdraw their game plot/idea/theme and have a good brainstorming session on creating a really nice multiplayer 3d adventure game based on crystal space.
That way only the few will be able to cheat and not the many. (if you have a lot of developers there will always be one to leak) The trick is to make the game secure by design.
Firstly you want a server authorative design, that cuts cheating possibilities to borging (bots) and changing the representation of the game (having a zoom mode on a gun wich wasnt intended to have a zoom for instance).
This will increase the effects of lag but thats a necessary evil.
You can try to prevent proxy bots by using public/secret key communication to the server. And to prevent bots and cheats in general you need a way for the server to test the executable and runtime data integrity and if the encryption key used by the client is the right one for the server.
If anything should be secret in the project it should be restricted to those integrity checks, but that should be a fairly minor part of the entire project.
Oh yeah, I remember that. There used to be talk about OSes for demos (what OS could get you closer to the hardware than DOS?), including talks of creating a lightweight OS specifically for that purpose: DemoOS. :)
If the server does all the work, the game doesn't scale well. Multiplayer stops in the 8-12 player range. Over the internet, the number is even smaller. Distributing the work load is the only feasible way to have more than a few players.
You can have all the damn initiative you want, but it doesn't make a split lick of difference if there's no code at the end of it.
And maybe you don't code, and you don't contribute, but I do code and contribute, which is why when I see the 30 billionth "hi I've a great idea for a game with 3d effects and network play and stuff but I can't code so could somebody do all the work for me" projects, it starts to grate on the nerves.
There's plenty of wannabes, not enough people putting in the hard yards.
For the non programmers here, please translate. :) Thanks...
sub: says it all!
I have moral difficulty with OSS taking good paying jobs from people. MS puts food on the table for a LOT of people in this country. Last time I checked, OSS doesn't pay too many bills for too many people. There's enough problem with foreigners taking US jobs for ridiculously low rates. OSS is the worst case scenario. By supporting OSS, you're shooting yourself (and everyone else who works for a living) in the foot.
Money has nothing to do with it. These people are doing it for fun. Writing software and using computers might just be work for some people, but for a lot of computer enthusiasts, doing this kind of thing is fun. I assume you have a job were you make money, but haven't you ever volunteered to do something to help out, or just because you like doing something. Kind of like people who do crafts,belong to quilting clubs, volunteer for habitat for humanity, or volunteer for special events in thier community. They do what they do for the enjoyment of creation, or the good feeling you get from helping out. All the people I know who do arts and crafts don't break even selling the stuff they make, they usually dont expect to. They make enough money to live on from thier jobs.
I spent a lot of time when I was kid building forts and putting stuff together in my back yard. I wasn't building the stuff to sell, I was building it to play in. My friend would come over, and we would both work. We knew that if we both worked on it that we would have a nicer fort faster. Nobody had to tell us that, it was just logic. These people are build there virtual fort so there inner child has a place to play. If you get in touch with your inner child you might understand. That is of course dependent of your inner child still existing.
If your inner child does exist, then I'm sure everyone elses inner child will let him play in thier fort too.
Uhh... Linus didn't create the idea of open source software, nor was he anywhere near the first. There are many examples of OSS before Linux, including GNU and Unix (before AT&T closed it). At the moment, there is a wealth of OSS besides Linux too. Don't forget *BSD and the rest of the crowd.
Isn't the source for Quake 2 already released?
I think I saw it somewhere on the Quake HOWTO.
Anyway, you can join a clan or group of people who like to play the game. If someone cheats, kick them out.
Game design is complicated, but I guess if you end up with a game that has no way of competing with the titles out there, you may as well open source it.
It's really only a problem with RPGs, like Diablo and Ultima Online, where you can get super items and kill people in town. If you got a cheater in something like Quake, it may be annoying, but you can still go and kill some other people.
See, this is probably one of the reasons for the Blender B-key that was recently taken out. It was given as a gift to the Linux/FreeBSD community, because Linux/FreeBSD gave something to the community. To just give it for free to Windows and benefit Microsoft, who didn't give anything seemed wrong.
Of course, the B-key was such a weird plan that it was probably doomed from the start.
Usually people write the code because they need it for personal use. Since they don't got the money to support it or turn it into a full product (or its probably something people wouldn't pay a lot for), they figure it will be useful for someone else and release it under GPL. Basically since you've already finished it, you don't really care how many other people download it.
Look around crystalspace.linux.com. There is a document there about how to use the crystalspace API. I didn't read that, but I did read some other of the other documents there about how 3d engines work. You have to have a decent math background to understand how a lot of that is done. I'm not sure how much math you would need to know to use the API. If you know about vectors, and some linear algibra, I would think that you have a good starting point.
The best newbie to 3D programming oriented book
I've found is _Black Art of 3d Game Programming_
by Andre Lamothe. It is getting slightly dated... all the code inside is for 16-bit DOS, but the fundamentals of 3D polygon and voxel game programming along with input/sound fundamentals (dos code isn't as helpful here...) are all presented in a clear manner.
I considered joining the project, but the story just sounds stupid, and unlogical. I can understand if the game was about time bandits stealing time travel technology, or about a virtual time machine that creates a universe almost exactly like ours and allows people to do what they want in it but does not effect the real world, BUT a scientific experiment of humans causing chaos?!?!?!?! How scientific is that? What if someone kills the key scientist's great ancestors, of the project and they disappear meaning the project doesn't exist any more? They would not want that, and control over such technology would be strong (probably like star trek : voyager).... If I was going to join this project I would complain about the story to much, instead I choose not to, I do wish them good luck though, as it would be nice to see these kinds of projects actually be successful....
Hmm, lets see its not a project with out people to work on it, so anouncing a project would get people to go there and work on it, so it makes perfect sense, not all slashdotters think the way you do, some are looking for something interesting to do, but are not necesarily looking for it, instead anouncing it on slash dot brings it to their attention and then they can decide if they think it will be fun or interesting to do some work on it.
Yes, glx exists. I have it working with my Voodoo2.
What's needed is some sort of NEW game idea. Every FPS I've seen is
just "Wolfenstein" with either different guns, different 3D engine, or
both; the game mechanics are always the same, which is a 3D
representation of a 2-D videogame. ("Touch pack of 100 bullets - you
automatically absorb them all, evidently through some sort of osmosis".)
Instead of Wolf/Doom/Quake clones, let's see something ORIGINAL.
MS puts food on the table for a LOT of people in this country.
Cults keep people fed too - so do most 3rd world slave-labour camps -
you're saying these are good things too? That we should all support
companies that use sweat-shops to produce goods?
Also, MS has a real problem paying it's workers - as the recent
lawsuits against them prove (not the antitrust lawsuit, the one
involving the temp workers - sorry, no URL handy.)
"The main problem with the world is that we live in a society that
rewards greed." - Jello Biafra
* Prove the free software development model works for games. Of course this could prove that the development model doesn't work as well. We will have to see.
:-)
Of course, free software projects are expected to fail, so if this one fails, it doesn't prove anything. However, if it succeeds, it proves that open source games are feasible.
I think the Worldforge project's success to this point has proved that open source games are feasible.
* More reason for propietary game vendors to use the CrystalSpace GPLed engine. This is good.
CrystalSpace has my total respect.
* Improve graphics support in Linux.
GGI! GGI!
We should also ban libraries because they take money from hard working writers and publishers.
Free Software reduces the cost of computing which allows more users. More users mean a larger consumer base for spin off industries, like admins, security, tech support, entertainment,..
Companies will still employ programmers to do custom apps they need done especially for those companies that target small markets.
Free Software just changes the market, it dosn't destroy it.
Think of it as social evolution in progress, and ADAPT.
I did some work for a small non-profit gallery in Ontario, a free software (free beer) would help them. Some people just don't have money to afford expensive proprietary software and support billionaires, they need to pay their bills.
>MS puts food on the table for a LOT of people in this country
They certainly promoted competition didn't they. I bet netscape got alot of money when Microsoft used their OS to gain leverage in the browser market.
A dirty forigner who will take american jobs, but knows enough about OSS that it isn't all free (free beer)
Uhmmmm, how does it know what device drivers to use? You know, silly little things like video drivers and crap like that. Neat idea for Zork
implementations of VGA only games!
"You are in the Space Marine Training facility. You see a pistol, two clips of pistol ammo, and a health pack.Obvious exits are N,S,W."
> S
"You are in the Space Dock. There is a Pain Elemental here! The pain elemental hits! The Pain elemental hits! -more-"
You die...
No where on the site did *I* see that this game was a *LINUX* game.
What I saw was it is an OpenSource game.
GNU/Linux is NOT the only OpenSource OS.
And saying this game is a Linux game is purposefully misleading.
Yep. And it's always been like that, too. It was funny to watch, back in the 80s, when text adventures where popular and shareware was starting to become en vogue... you'd see plenty of lame games, featuring an hour's worth of code, single and maybe double command parsing, a single puzzle, and a message such as:
"If you like this game, please send $20 to the author to support further development."
As if.
The PR is definately the easy part. At least, if the PR is as amatuer as the game development effort itself. It's actually possible to do a game on the strength of real, heavy-duty, professional PR (see capital investment in vaguely defined web-based ventures). But then, professional PR people really prefer to stick to the commercial world.
I was just reading MSJ and they had a whole article about how the Windows CE that comes with dreamcast isn't hard coded into system rom, but instead is stored on each game CD, and loaded into memory when it boots up. The difference is that this is a special version of CE with Dreamcast specific features. Doing it in the ever changing PC World would definitely be a different story.
Unless I've missed something, isn't ./ supposed to be "News for Ners"? Maybe it should be "News for unemployed, Anti-MS Nerds".
I agree completely, and it's a shame that projects like that will negatively affect any projects that may share certain goals.
It is a lot easier to run a website and do PR than it is to build a killer app, I agree. But I felt it was necessary to establish the website and PR in an effort to promote the project to developers and anyone else that felt it was a good idea. As far as giving my friends titles, I barely know the people on staff. I presented my idea, they volunteered. It's not like we all go to the same high school or something.
I contend the biggest difference between 'high-school' projects like you're talking about and projects like Time City is the final goal. I feel that projects like those are thrown together to gain respect and admiration for the staff members, not necessarily the release of solid software. I'm sure that many 'wannabe' game groups get together more as a social club than anything else.
Time City is a bold experiment for the Open Source cause, and I feel that the majority of the staff is working on Time City to further Open Source and Free Software, not to boost their own egos.
I see where you're coming from, though. In the end, the only thing that will separate us from the 'wannabe's' is a truckload of solid source code and a successful game. We'll get there.
Thank you for sharing your opinions and honest criticism! Keep checking the website and please don't hesitate to tell us how we're doing.
Emmett Plant
Founder, The Time City Project
2) The X graphics. They were *not* designed for fast throwing pixels/polygons at the screen and it shows.
Thank god for Precision Insight, XFree4.0, DGA and OpenGL, Mesa and GLX then.
Remember kids, X((GLX OpenGL) DGA(XSHM)) is an _excellent_ 2D and 3D direct rendering infrastructure - and VERY easy to program for.
DGA=DirectX
GLX=Direct3D AND MORE - the GL commands can be sent from a different computer, so like X allows you to have a 2D GUI program running anywhere on a network, displaying anywhere else, GLX allows the same for 3D.
I thought there was code?!?!?! I mean they said they are using the Crystal Engine, which has code already, but obviously they are looking for coders to use Crystal Engine specificly for their game, or to help the Crystal Engine project so in turn it helps their project.
If they accept it I'm there :)
spoken like a true fucking wannabe. what they got one programmer a level designer and a bunch of fucking wankers along for the ride (two people for PR ! give me a break!) they wanna be part of something DO SOME FRIGGING DESIGN OR CODING!
i am soooo sick of all these wanna be's tagalongs
I am in a similar situation( broke and making a game ).
:P
What I did to get money was defer my studies for six months. During that time I got a job as a programmer/ pc technition.
3 months later I bought a new computer, at whole sale prices, and had heaps of time to play around with some ideas I had. A friend and me had finished the first design, and had a very basic working prototype.
For the last month or so I have been living at my friends house( with our computers on his mums kitchen table ), trying to get a cool demo finished.
When our demo is finished( sheduled July 1st ) the plan is to get some more money for development from:
*A government grant.
*A local publisher(maybe EA here in Brisbane Australia).
*A bank loan.
*The sale of my soul
What I am trying to say is you don't have to stop development to get money. You only have to work about ten/twenty hours a week to survive. It may give you time away from the computer as well( which is a good thing ).
Get a cool prototype done and show it off. You should be able to get some money from somewhere.
--Rene.
Pfft. Even with a fully developed good quality commercial engine, game development can take 1-2 years on top of that. *cough* Daikatana *cough* ... 3 years now? Half Life was 2+ years in development with the Quake 1 & 2 sources. Far too many commercial games have proven that trying to throw in gameplay at the last second is like trying to tweak a novel just before publishing-- you can't polish sh**.
I'd personally like to see good "open source" artwork that fills a coherent game, good "OSS" sound/music, good "OSS" writing (aka design) in existence *BEFORE* all those parts are built into a game, which does depend on all of those components. In short, prove you can take small steps before you try and run a marathon with the big guys.
don't be so gay!
Did Linus say "Hey, I'm going to write a UNIX kernel, could somebody just write the scheduler and filesystem and console drivers and 386 code for me. I'll do the website!".
No, Linus WROTE SOME CODE FIRST.
These "call to arms" projects are nothing like Linux, and nothing like the Linux development model. The Linux model requires a kernel of code to work with first, not a pretty website.
Two examples
- FreeCiv needs help on gfx and sound. The new GTK interface will rock!
- GnuChess could need a fancier interface. Xboard could need some refreshnes.
There are many more. Like flightsimulators, lemings like game, battle games, etc..
Support them!
The thing that I like the best about this Time City project is that is seems like the group of people running it are a bunch of people having fun. I mean, just look at the website... "Celebrity Screams"? So long as they're having fun, something good will come out of it, whether or not there ends up being a Time City game.
We all know that there's a small number of people with the ability to help a project like this. Batman's Robin, Linus's Alan Cox, and even Uta of the WorldForge project. But all you need is one of these types of people, and the rest will come.
I think that that's why this type of project announcement is useful... Maybe one of those few special people are listening. These special folks are certainly ignoring the pessimism spewing forth in this forum, and maybe, just maybe, this project will catch their whim. All it takes is one...
Um...there's a car called "WorldForge"? It may be a cool name for some kind of tank or something, but I don't know of any cars by that name.
The Altima project, now the Worldforge project, is progessing along nicely. It wasn't swallowed up into WorldForge. That was just a name change since we felt that "Altima" was too close to "Ultima."
http://www.worldforge.org/, if anyone's interested
>I can understand distributed.net not releasing their source, because they're trying to conduct a fair and honest competition.
But isn't that what you want out of a game, too? Fair and honest competition? I'm not just being contrary, here, I'm actually interested in hearing schemes by which a multiplayer game could be totally Open Source, and still somehow offer fairness and honesty.
I've been pondering a game project myself, lately, and while I'm a big believer in the power of Open Source to improve the quality of software, I have some reservations about opening the source to multiplayer games.
Specifically, once the source goes public, there is no feasible way to prevent end users from changing the code to give themselves unfair advantages -- faster movement, more powerful weapons, brighter gamma correction, whatever -- and so disrupting the balance of the game.
As a different model, I point to the distributed.net folks, who don't release their source for very similar reasons. I posit a game-development model that follows their model -- aggressive bug fixing, constant posting of updated binaries for as many OSes as possible, and generally the same speed and responsiveness as an Open Source project, just without the actual source out there. Something much like id's scheme, but faster and more multi-platform.
Thoughts? I'd like to think that Open Source is generally a Good Thing(tm), but I'd like to hear feedback on how to make sure everyone's on a level playing field if your client code can be modified.
Using derogatory misspellings or alterations of names is still somewhat childish. Calling something "winblows" or "w1nbl0wz" or "Linsucks" or "slowaris" or "crapintosh" is not what I'd expect somebody over the age of 10 to do.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
So if somebody said "I don't like that hippie Linsucks operating system" you would take them seriously?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
HEHEhehehe..... I really like AC's. Thanx!
This one's going in my funny file.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Here is some help: Get a new slogan. Unless this game is a parody, you will be looking at some legal problems with MS.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by stodge:
the name still sucks - its a car! Doh!
Posted by The Incredible Mr. Limpett:
:)
Although I'm really looking forward to Oni by Bungie (http://www.bungie.com/oni/default.html)
Although it's more of a combo/improvement over current form facotrs (Quake and Mortal Kombat type games), it's sounds great. I especially like the environment space that doesn't just limit you to the door to enter a building(you could break a window somewhere in the building and enter that way or break down a door on the roof and enter that way.)
If only they could mix that with a Myst type puzzle game and things could be groovy.
or how about a MUD in the form factor of Quake (instead of Diablo or whatever) and you could paste your scanned face in there and make different skins (suits, bathing suits, etc.)
Hmm..I wish I knew how to program at that scale cause that's what I'd be working on...
----
"Wars, conflict, it's all business. One murder makes a
villain. Millions a hero. Numbers sanctify."
Hi. We have this great idea. We write a virtual president that can rule the world, using advanced artificial intelligence techniques. We need YOU to write the code, because all we know is how to design slashdot replies.
Why visit a Linux site when you're so openly opposed to free, Open Source software?
:^/
Unless I've missed a joke here...
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
If you felt like living dangerously, you could probe for hardware...
Just a thought.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Nor does Linux need a bunch of goddamn fuckin' flamers.
Yes, I realize the irony of my reply.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
If you really want a Linux game project to work on, or just some source to hack on, my RTS projects page lists many open source efforts. I'm sure some of them can use a helping hand.
t ml
http://www.cgocable.net/~mlepage/rts/projects.h
I'm working on my own Linux game right this minute, re-vamping the view hierarchy. How come I don't get Slashdot articles devoted to Minion?
--
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
You may also be interested in looking at WorldForge, Cyphesis and Lycadican, as some other Linux game development projects in need of developers. These are more fantasy roleplaying oriented. -- Bryce
Swallowed?? :-)
;-)
When it was listed on Slashdot, one "Piece of advice" given by the Slashdot crowd was, "Bah, the name sucks, change it."
We did.
-- Bryce
Superlatively cool indeed. Now how do I modify this to print "DANIEL" instead of "DAVID"? (Without going insane in the process.) The last half hour was vainly spent attempting this very feat. I think I'm making headway but I think I need to discover the magic number for my name before I can go any further.
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
...don't make sense. Especially multiplayer games.
... no.
Game design is a complicated beast. Not only do you have to know how to code, you also have to know how to design a game to be attractive aurally, visually and above all, interest. The OS model is fine for computing utility, but recreation
I fully support the idea of open-sourcing PARTS of games. Like network code. Except that until the code is rock-hard-solid, no one would want to use it. Ways to break and exploit the system would be almost as known as the system itself.
There are some things game players aren't meant to know. Code is #1.
What would have happened if the source of Quake was released before people stopped playing it? There would be 100 times more cheaters than there already are. The ability to play would be subverted by the ability to write code. Diablo could have been a lot more popular than it was if it wasn't for exploiters.
As much as some cr/h/ackers might love the idea, it sucks as a means to have fun.
J.
damned vulpine http://sb.drtwister.com/
But the MS quote was a bad one to begin with. Way too many people are parodying it. Bad parodies of bad slogans make me double-cringe.
It may be a good game, though.
--Lenny
Cool indeed. Now what is the point of the !! after the |. As far as I can tell they aren't needed. Works fine without them on linux 2.0 and gcc 2.7.2.3
It wasn't swallowed; the name was merely changed. Personally I think Altima sucks just as bad as Worldforge, though.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
From the premise on their story page, this has potential to be one weird game.
...
You probably expect me to say something about causing major historical changes. You're waiting for me
to tell you not to touch anything, talk to anyone, or break anything. Balderdash! Just the opposite. We
want you to attempt to cause rifts in the timestream by any means necessary. Kill whomever you want.
Blow up a building if you can. It's only by testing our technology (and the universe) to it's limits that we
will learn from this experiment. Keep in mind that other historians receive the same advice; it will be just
as important to defend yourself against them, as well as the Chronopolian natives. Since we're a
scientific expedition, we're not licensed to issue weapons of any sort. You will need to find them yourself.
If this means that the game will actually try to keep track of events that happen at different times, and the way they affect each other... Well, it's hard to imagine how they'll manage it, but it could really be something. The problem is, since we can't really time-travel, how would it resolve cases like, "I think I'll beam a BFG-9000 back to the room where I had that fight last week. Then I wouldn't have gotten killed, so I would be able to do it."
They do seem to imply that that's the sort of thing they want to make possible, but it could get ridiculous, like that scene in "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" -- "After I win, I'll go back and put a gun here that I can use to kill you (and win)." "Oh yeah? Well, after we win, we'll go back and make sure your gun isn't loaded, so we'll win."
It'll have to have some way of resolving these things: you can't have something you do take effect before the subjective time that you decide to do it, and even then it needs some way to be sure that you actually will do it before it can take effect.
This is all probably way beyond what it'll actually be, but it looks like they are going for some way of having actions and events affect each other non-sequentially. Maybe like forcing a rematch if you change the circumstances of a previous fight, and cascading the effects if the outcome is different. I hope they can pull it off.
That Crystal Space thing looks pretty interesting, too. I hadn't heard of it before. My #@%*% modem just hung up at 90% on the download, so I won't be trying it out for another few hours, though. (Why can't Netscape continue interrupted downloads instead of starting over? It does so occasionally, but it seems to decide pretty much randomly. I know, I know, read the source and fix it, right?)
David Gould
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
Make Dr. Fox explicitly completely insane. That way, you can have _two_ factions of people going back in time: one, the lunatics Dr. Fox sent back in time; two, the lunatics sent back in time by the authorities to stop the other lunatics who got sent back in time.
Should make things more interesting having the two "sides", IMO. I think I'll suggest this to these folks directly, too.
---
DNA just wants to be free...
Rudeness is not often the best way to deal in a project like this. As I understand, your one of the people representing this project. Please do not hurl rude comments when a suggestion is made. /. is a place filled with flame wars, try to stay out of it.. or be natuarally branded.
It takes a sound mind to make something sound, (how about looking at the kernel mailing list's crap-to-ontopic ratio, interestingly linus has the lest amount of crap there, with Alan Cox dominating the crap session ) -- cant remember where this page is.. (looking for samba"?)
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I think it is *extremely* possible to make Linux into one righteous gaming platform.
First key is to realize that most modern BIOSes allow one to boot from CDROM. No need to have a seperate boot partition any more, let alone install Linux.
Second is to work on making the kernel use hot-loadable device drivers -- mix-n-match the components as needed for a given machine. Only load the drivers needed for a particular hardware config, etc.
Third is to have Linux able to safely read and write to other OSes partitions. Save game data and config setup can be stored on the hard drive without needing to partition it.
I'm going to quit trying to count, because I'm so freaking tired. I'll just babble on... if Linux can be designed to have a bloody fast kernel and device drivers with an excellent gaming-centric API, as well as excellent memory management functions, I'm sure game designers would find the platform extremely pleasing. As always, identifying what the customer (ie. game author) *needs* and *values* would be the trick here.
Plop in a CD, reboot the computer and, shazam, up comes the game. Quick, stable, awesome. Requires less computer hardware "power" because the OS isn't dragging things down... it'd be cool.
Gahd. Off for a nap, now...!
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
>the name still sucks - its a car! Doh!
THIS IS A WARNING:
This person, going by the name "stodge" is extremely dangerous. If you encounter this individual on the street or elsewhere, contact the police IMMEDIATELY. Keep as far away from it and warn others to take the appropriate measures as well.
Thank you for your time.
Did you even bother to read through their website? The point of this article, is they need HELP. If they had a completed product, why would you want help? They're looking into a community effort here. (This is going to shape out the same way Linux did.)
Show you the code? How about getting your hands dirty and helping to WRITE the code?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
I mean, this looks like a cool site and, frankly, I haven't taken a deeper look into the project yet, but who came up with that catch phrase. "When do you want to go today?" *shudder* Good grief. :)
Well, it seems to me that using the Crystal Space engine takes the pressure off developers for developing the actual engine. So they're left with designing the actual gameplay, etc, which, while still complex, is less work than starting from scratch, making that kind of timeline (slightly) more reasonable.
This is totally off topic, and I wouldn't blame anyone for moderating it off, but I just wanted to say your sig is very cool. I stared at that code, trying to figure it out and decided to just screw it and code it up. Neat. :)
Actually, the funny part is this very idea has been tossed around in gaming forums, etc, in the past. I know, I know, it sounds pretty damned outlandish, and I'd have to agree, but it is kinda intriguing. I believe some people were thinking of using Linux as an OS specifically for writing demos, as well. Go figure.
I've been looking for some very basic books on 3D programming. I used to work with MUDS, and have done 3D CAD drawings with shading, but I have not found anything that seem to explain how to write or work with a 3D engine.
Any suggestions?
The best things about gamming on a computer is the fact that you can develop games on one, and you can play one on the internet. Being able to customize them (like making quake mods, a little different than the first point), and do other stuff at the same time is also nice (like running a downloading something at the same time, or getting right back to work after you close it). I guess if computers got cheaper, and got a longer lifespan, this could be usefull.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Quake* has lots of code open source, enough to make the game unfair, yet it ends up fun. In fact, I can't recall the last time I just connected with a server that used just plain vinalla id dm code.
Why not just use the model quake uses. If they plan on useing CrystalSpace, this is how it will be done.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Help the CrystalSpace project out, that way this project gets something, and any other 3D games that want to use the CS engine.
Mazed, the CS map editor, needs help, to make it comparable to quake or better yet unreal level editors. I am guessing the unreal editor would be closer to what they wan't, since CS and unreal seem to use mostly portals for their engine, then again, I have never done any level editing for unreal, so I wouldn't know.
And, a good engine for the future games needs better model support. Right now, CrystalSpace just uses model sprites(like Quake*), not dynamic models(like Half-Life or fighting games). And for these models, you need something to make them. So help make a decent open source 3D model animator, like Extreme Wave. I say Extreme Wave becuase it apears to be the only OSS modeler that focuses on animation. Better than starting your own.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I havent gotten my TNT yet (still in the mail, whatever) but I was able to get the software opengl renderer to work. I know it was opengl becuase it was slow as hell, 1frame per 15 seconds. I compiled from source, and got the 3d source too. I changed the 3D drivers section in the cryst.cfg to have all but this commented out:
DRIVER=crystalspace.graphics3d.opengl
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I mean, don't get me wrong, I wish them luck (They've got Penn&Teller for voice actors! How cool is that?), but give people a little something that compiles first.
This announcement seem a little too PRish for me. They haven't even got the game engine they want to base it on complete yet, and storyline and plot are cheap. (Hey, I've got a million idea lying around.) What am I trying to say? Show Me The Code, and then an announcement is appropiate, so all we little eager Linux beaver can download, compile and bitch about bugs to be improved.
I think the project looks great, and it should be a lot of fun for all of us. Lately everything has been monopoly this, sue him for that, they said this... Now here's something to let off a little steam. And yeah, while the slogan needs a little work, the site looks great and they seem to have everything organized and in place. It will be interesting to see how the games turns out,and even more interesting to play it.
Has anyone gotten this library to use glx (TNT or G200) under Linux? All I see for 3d renderers is a software renderer...
I also have it working with my millenium g200. What I wanted to know is how to get CrystalSpace to use it.
Ok, here I go. Some people here will flame me for this, but I find some of my experiences
Im currently involved in the development of a game currently on hold. The reason for it being on hold is that we cant afford to do it. Thats the true bottom line. We have spent thousands of hours on developing new algorithms for rendering, dynamics etc, just to get that little edge, on getting a good and thorough design, nice graphics, convincing sound-handling etc, all done in our spare time, when we were students at different schools here in Sweden. Some of our algorithms are more advanced and faster than some of IDs and 3D Realms, incredibly enough. Problem is, we dont want to release it open source, because of all the time weve spent on development on things that can be considered state-of-the-art. We dont want others to use OUR work, to achieve that status. Im out of school, unemployed, need to move away from my parents, and I need to get myself a new computer. Im waiting for answers from some companies. In the meantime, Im a poor guy who has to rely on my parents and friends to keep me fed and warm. Im constantly looking for a job. I dont have time or money to put into development, and I dont wanna give away thousands of hours of work just like that.
Another reason for keeping development proprietary is purely practical reasons: The more cooks, the worse it gets. Well, in the computer community it could be said "The more developers on a single project, the worse the product", and I find that a major issue when considering Microsoft and, actually, the Linux community reflects that fact pretty accurately. Theres a reason why the BEST games studios try to keep to a certain size.
Anders W - Inquisitor of CoJ, Champion of Lady weeanna "Why despair? We are all going to die anyway"
You can most certainly write games (and with somewhat more effort write *good* games) for Linux, but IMHO in the gaming world Linux is at disadvantage to the Win95/98 platform, even leaving aside all the market size problems. As I see it there are two serious problems:
(1) Win95/98 will essentially surrender the machine with all its hardware to the game code. If the code wants to play games with hardware it can. This makes code unportable, buggy and very hard to debug and maintain, but if the code can pull this off, then it has a speed advantage. And while you don't care much about speed in, say, Civ2 and its cousins, there are a lot of other games where the speed at which the game runs is very important. By the virtue of being an OS, Linux will not permit game code to play all these maybe-clever tricks.
(2) The X graphics. They were *not* designed for fast throwing pixels/polygons at the screen and it shows. Yes, I know, there are workarounds, but again, either you climb in bed with specific hardware, forget about X and gain speed (the problems with this approach are left as the exercise for the reader), or you are at a disadvantage again.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
I don't know the internals workings of Linux that much but I have some questions.
;)
Since this would be a kind of boot on CD game, you can run root without any problem I think, at least when you are playing alone. There probably would be some security problems in a network but can't we do a special distro to secure this??
Or wouldn't it be possible to compile a special version of Linux that will allow user programs to directly access the display/soundcard/keyboard/joystick/network card... all the things that need a game to speed it up?? Couldn't it be possible to change Linux so you have an option at config time/a patch/any other system that will allow that without compromising the security too much (something more secure than Win9* at least).
And who talked about X window??? Crystal Space seems to work with SVGAlib so why use X-Window??? Furthermore if this is a bootable CD I really don't see the need to use X.
That's true that it would be hard to make it work on every PC due to the large range of HW their is, but wouldn't it be possible to use a directory to stock the saved games and the modules for the drivers??
The kernel would boot with the support for a generic Hard drive and a generic CD-ROM drivers and with support for ISO9660 and VFAT and Ext2fs (for those that use Linux, or ext3 if available) and load specific drivers once he is up and running, those drivers being on the hard drive.
You may say that there will be problems with different versions of kernel not being able to load the modules but if we do a specific distro to base the game development on we can assure that the kernel used does not change his loading scheme too often.
And if a free software game is enough successful I think that a lot of hardware manufacturer would make hteir hardware compatible with the game...so more hardware drivers for Linux
Of course i don't think this is that simple but without anything to base our reflexion on we can't discuss these issues.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
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* Flesh out the GPLed game engine. I don't think any major games were made with it before (correct me if I'm wrong)
* Prove the free software development model works for games. Of course this could prove that the development model doesn't work as well. We will have to see.
* More reason for propietary game vendors to use the CrystalSpace GPLed engine. This is good.
* Flesh out OSS.
* Improve graphics support in Linux.
Of course these assume that this project is succesful. Of course, if the game turns out to be popular, the sky is the limit.
Also, if they make a version for Windows/DOS (they should, CrystalSpace is portable) and it does prove popular, then free software wins big time!
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Criticizing a vapor project isn't a knock against Linux or OSS; it's just that wannabe game groups have been popping up at an amazing rate lately, mostly in the Windows world. The general pattern is:
:( Sigh.
1. Come up with a hip, alterna-skater name and a harsh, futuristic logo.
2. Give titles to your friends ("design director", "beverage coordinator").
3. Put together an honestly impressive, graphics-laden web site.
4. Outline an ambitious game project: "A game with Unreal-style graphics set in the world of _Snow Crash_."
5. Write the background story for the game.
6. Announce your flagship title to the world, also mentioning that while you currently have a great 2D artist, musician, and team manager, you still need 3 or 4 experienced coders, plus someone to do the 3D modelling and artwork.
No offense to anyone involved--it certainly *is* an order of magnitude easier to run a website and do PR than to write a game--but this project is pretty much going by the numbers
They've been dealing with this problem with netrek clients for ages.
The client source is available, but to be allowed to play against many servers, they have to "know" your clients key.
And the keys are not easy to get.
RSA is also an option available there.
Now, mind you, I'm no netrek God, but I know this problem's been worked on alot already.
------ Nope, Not me, you can't prove I said that!
overpopulation. Big business build patent towers around themselves. Brainy qualified freedom freaks revolt. Riots postponed. Everyone's happy.
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
- Alpha 1 by end of August
- Beta 1 by End of January
- Release one year from now!
For the game industry this might be standard, but for a volunteer project quite a challenge! Let's do it!Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
You must smoke crack heavily if you think that... I don't believe I have ever met a person who won't take something they dislike and come up with a clever insulting name for it.
It's really not childish... Childish is a matter of opinion.
Micro$oft Winblows 00
Also, if you think about it, it's an efficient way of showing your view of something... Take the above for example... "Micro$oft" shows that I think Microsoft is a money hungry Corp., "Winblows" shows that I think Windows is a lame product, "00" is just and insult toward Micro$oft about how technically awful so many of their products are...
The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient... - High Road to China
The Open Source (LGPL'd) Crystal Space engine looks like a wonderful platform for building a front-end to networked games. It supports all my favorite platforms, as well as the Ma$s market one, and has networking support built in. Now I'm going to have to reconsider my plans for writing a Java-based game client.
Geeky modern art T-shirts
God, I hope that was a troll...and considering the website we're on, I imagine it was.