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R.I.P. Linuxbox
Submitted by many: Linuxbox (AKA MassLinux), the hosting service that provided free server space for many open source and free software projects, went offline today at noon. Chris Gann, the company's owner, told me (by phone) that he's about $7000 short of keeping things going, which is almost exactly how much he's owed by deadbeat "paying" customers. Chris is a truly nice person, which may be why so many customers figured they could get away without paying him. If so, this is a sad commentary on the current Internet business climate.
Llama Communications $6.95 a month...I chuckle each time I cut the check.
This sort of thing happens all the time. Unfortunately you cant run a business expecting everyone will pay you. Even if you dont have people who are withholding because of some sort of greivance there's always customers who will be consistently late every time. It's just the way things work. The bigger the customer the longer it will take you to get a check. It's sad, but it's business as usual.
-Rich
What about helping him in other ways? I'd be willing to provide a domain and host it if he'd like to switch over whatever domains he wanted to it. I'd even go so far as to provide him total access to the "host" domain, complete with username, password, etc. What do you all think? Chris, if you're reading this, reply to this.
a better sig would normally be here. -blah-
That was mainly the sysops' fault... The only ones trying to get people to way were the ones running nearly identical BBSes... If they've all got the same CD-ROMs, the same network message areas, and even look the same because they use the same software and leave everything at the defaults, why would anyone pay?
There are a lot of commercial software packages and hosting services which provide for credit card transactions. Also third party companies that specialize in that sort of thing.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
hey, how about you post your address so we can raid your house, beat the crap out of you, and slap linux on your cheezy little windows box.
Wow. How's that tag treating you?
LOOKS PRETTY COOL FROM THIS END.
No setup whatsoever. I will handle your credit card for you (Well Kagi will, actually, at this time, but you don't even need to register with Kagi)
The goal of tipjar is and has been since 1996 to provide a virtual equivalent of the ability to drop coins into musician's instrument cases without requiring download of any additional software by anyone.
While I don't have a ton of bandwidth to throw around, I do have a dedicated DSL connection and would be willing to host a few of the smaller projects that have become homeless after this incident, if two conditions are met. First, I would have to clear this with my DSL provider because I don't want to voilate my contract. Second, I would want to hear from Chris Gann himself confirming the good intentions of whomever I might be hosting. If you are one of those who lost a home, contact me at jamie at jamie.ufies.org and we can discuss the feasability of doing this. A disclaimer: I can make no guarantee of stability or availability... this machine is my personal box that I use for other things like quake and school work. If you can find another place to host your project I strongly suggest doing so. If, however, you are totally without options, I might be able to help out, if only temporarily.
Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
"I wouls send money if I thought it would help,"
Knock yerself out...
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
Ryan French
Linuxbox Staff
http://www.linuxbox.com
staff@linuxbox.com
zantispam (Rob doesn't seem to like me too much right now. Don't know why)
Jedi Hacker(Apprentice) and Code Poet
It happens in every business man. Some people are just deadbeats... that's all there is to it.
Hehe... I could start a business and be the first "Repo Man" of web sites...
Anything I've seen adveritised locally is at least CDN$20 per month to host a domain name. MassLinux had packages starting at US$5 and I liked that.
Greg
Unless they get back up due to popular demand and charity, try he.net - I've been using them for a couple of years on about 4 domains and have had zero problems - they're also on Linux...
---
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
If they really wanted to endear themselves to the Linux and OpenSource communities, Andover might want to take a looksie in that direction...
What do you think Rob? Is it worth making inquiries? After all, it's just some host space, right?
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
The easiest way to reduce collection problems is to simply not extend credit. Period. These days everyone has a credit card - get the loot up front and stick to that policy UNLESS you are dealing with a Fortune 500 company. If you can't take credit cards for payment, then you are not a "real" business. Also period. If you are a contractor, get some up front when you take the job, some halfway through, then the rest you are done, and don't turn over the final source and/or build until you get the final check. Deviate from this policy and you will get hosed. Getting paid can be a very expensive, frustrating, time consuming process, and collection problems are behind many, many business failures. You have been warned.
I'm sure since he has customers that he can snag some venture capital to keep the business afloat until he can force the deadbeat customers to pay up. (good way to do that: disallow all access to their site until they do)
"There is nothing more intimidating than an idiotic smile worn by a manifest non-idiot." --unknown
It's a shame to see somebody's generosity rewarded so poorly. Maybe everybody on Slashdot who sees this should send him a dollar. Then he'd have his $7000 in not time.
First post perhaps...
It's everywhere.. it reminds me a lot of BBS's in the old days.. tons of people would come and freeload as the sysop slaved away, and only a very small few would contribute. It's nice to think that you can get by on grateful people giving you money for your hard work, but it just never works out.
That's heartbreaking. To think that he's going to have to operate more cynically in the future - his trust has been broken. Ouch.
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
--
Erskin
geek.
I was just going to sign up two paying domains with them, and then my wife had her purse stolen and we had to cancel all our credit cards. So I had to wait about 15 days until I get new ones, I guess I'm pretty lucky in a warped way. Never like to see a linux business go down though. Any other good, bargain-priced hosting services out there? I don't like the freeserver.com guys because they can't even send account confirmation email correctly.
If you know who might need a host, email me at rob@freshmeat.net.
God, I second that. I did about $1,500 worth of work for a prominent Linux company at cut-rate -- plus fronting them $800 worth of supplies -- and it's taking a court order and collection agency to get the money.
Want a recipe to sink a free-software project? Don't pay your bills... don't show up to meetings... go back on your word... take weeks to ship orders.... The real shame is, you not only sink your company -- you could minimize the honest work done by dozens of volunteers.
If you want your project to be taken seriously, you have to act like a real business. Free software demands extra responsibility to promulgate and promote the work done by contributors.
Anyway, sincere condolences to Chris and others involved in LinuxBox. Sadly, you're not alone. :-/
--Tom
Tom Geller
For those of you wishing to make donations or send money, you may do so by sending check/money order/cash/shoelaces/whatever to:
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
I wish I had something more prolific to say, but unfortunately I am still sincerely at a loss for words both over our tragedy and over your generosity and support. We really believe in Open Source and the OSS community at large. We have always been avid supporters of linux since that cold autumn day in 1994 when I first discovered SLS Linux :-)
As it has been known for some time, the domain name LINUXBOX.COM has been for sale. We wanted to use that revenue to expand our GNU/OSS offerings and create a nice site dedicated soleley to those efforts. It's still for sale :-) Unfortunately, due to lack of investors, this was a necessity for us.
I have been getting a TON of email, I will respond to all of it. Right now my hands are shaking and I'm too excited and shellshocked to be of much use, but let me just say one last thing: From the bottoms of our hearts, we thank you all tremendously!!
--Chris
Chris Gann
MassLinux
Darn it!
I was literally just about to move my site there. They had everything I wanted at such a decent price.
This must be a sudden decision, I was speaking to one of the guys there as of last night.
Anyone know of any other good linux web site hosters? I was looking to spend about $10 a month and the features they offered were great.
Those left without a home for their open source projects can contact OpenAvenue for free hosting.
http://www.openavenue.com
I can provide hosting to 2-3 of the software projects for $20 a month. I'd need a letter of approval from chris and all. That includes access our domain servers, perl, etc.
"There is nothing more intimidating than an idiotic smile worn by a manifest non-idiot." --unknown
I operate a site called TerraBox.com. Currently i'm hosting the linux kernel archive in it's entirety and Debian.org distribution as one of the 5 tier 1 servers. I have 2 places to host machines. One is a large server on dual T3 that can be used for websites/development and I also have a dual PPro 180 at home that can be used to compile/ditribute from. Please feel free to contact me if you need hosting and/or development space free of charge to do your Open Source developmetn. Sincerely, Brian Wolfe TerraBox.com ahzz@terrabox.com
I also opened an account, yesterday in fact and paid for it today, 1 hour before they went bust. I am annoyed - very annoyed - not with the fine people at linuxbox - but with the f***ing cheapskates who didn't pay up that led to them closing down. This was a great service at an unbeatable price with the added bonus of feeling that in some small way I was helping the GNU/OSS developers who were being hosted for free.
I have just spent 3 hours looking for a similar service - there isn't one. Telnet, mysql, php3, ssh, own domain, unlimited mail forwarding - all of $10.00/month.
Hbear, UK.
That's really too bad about Linuxbox.com, i don't know much about them other than a brief visit to their site a few months ago, but bad clients are a thorn in the side of many a hosting company, especially when their margins were as thin as they were.
We'd like to make an open offer to any Linux/OSS related site : Free, obligation-free, hosting. For more information, please check out our web site at voxel.net.
Warm Regards,
Raj Dutt
Voxel Dot Net, Inc
Netscape Communicator 4.05....an application log has been generated by the old caring Dr Watson. Kaboom.... Guess I'll go home and use Lynx then, office PCs *mutter*
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
It would be nice if some REAL ISP stepped forward and donated a box to the cause - one that'll be around for a while...
I may be in the position to offer space in the near future - stay tuned.
Take all those delinquent customers and post their names and E-mail addresses on a page titled "People responsible for us going out of business."
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
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So, we screw our own people instead of supporting them. Makes me wonder how many people are in this comminity because they think that they can get something for nothing. This stinks. I was SOOO mad when I read this. I was planning on moving my own project over there.
* ******
I do have to say though that this isn't just our community who does this. My brother and I were forced out of business b/c our "customers" wouldn't pay up either and we had no recourse that we could afford at that point to collect from them, contracts or no contracts. It costs money to sue in Canada.
I'll just say this about my experience: never take on accountants and real estate companies as clients they are the worst.
My sympathies to Chris. I've been there. It sucks, especially when your own community has pulled the shaft on you. If that's what you like doing though Chris take what you've learned and start again. This time though screen you customers and get payment in advance. If they don't pay you take their site off line within a couple days of their payment being overdue. You have to play tough. Put it in the contract. I'd also say charge a late fee on payments, or if they continue not to pay have a clause where you can confiscate their stuff. You want to be nice but you have to stick up for yourself too.
I'd follow the admonishment of one of the other posters. Post a list of the dead-beats on the web for all to see. I'd like to know who to throw the rocks at.
Good luck in the future.
Sheldon.
*************************************
Superstition is a word the ignorant use to describe their ignorance. -Sifu
To all interested parties-
If anyone is displaced by the closing of Linuxbox, I can offer you an alternative.
Sprawl.Net is a server of mine that is located at a fairly large ISP in New York state.
If anyone wold like, I can set something up for you on Sprawl.Net.
Email me with questions, comments, etc...
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by stupidity.
-Robert Heinlein, 'Logic of Empire'
They've got about a million pricing levels, depending on the access level you need. The lowest cost service starts at something like $5-6 per month.
I setup an account about a month ago at linuxbox. I like the service and the staff. I setup my account, saw how things worked out and a few days later filled in the payment form. How many people did this ? :( :(
I wonder how many fukin porn dealers abused linuxbox
Fair well
To all the people that have showered us with love over our current situation, we thank you.
I've spend the last two years making sure that Linuxbox was and is the best possible place for free gnu/oss hosting and commercial website hosting to support the gnu/oss community. I don't want to see it go.
I didn't want to sit idle and not mention what a great job chris has done for Linuxbox and also, all the staff at Linuxbox. So, as I sit here and think about our future, I would just like to say, don't give up on the gnu/oss community, they're the ones that brought us here. There just seems to be those slim few that decide that they don't owe a community who has made them. Never-the-less, I say again, Thank you for your support in our time of need. If you would like to make donations, please do. We sure can use it.
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
Ryan French
Linuxbox Staff
http://www.linuxbox.com
staff@linuxbox.com
If you are one of the people who were affected by LinuxBox's demise, we may be able to help you out. System 12 has room for about 20-30 small, community-related projects. While our own project wont be formally unveiled for another couple months, we can offer sanctuary on a temporary basis for those of you who need to get your projects back up on short notice.
System 12 is a community project funded by VA Linux Systems. We have a Dual P3/500 SMP box with 512MB RAM, and 36GB of space sitting on a rather fast connection. If we can help, send us a short email telling us who you are, the name of your project, a short description of what it is, and a way we might be able to reach, and we'll see what we can do to help.
Good luck,
Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, System 12 (http://system12.com)
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
We've been hosting many various open source projects for a long time now and would be glad to host more. So if you are homeless--or if you are starting an OS project--drop a note to me or to Donald Sizemore dsl@metalab.unc.edu
Certified Black Helicopter Pilot *** Unwitting Dupe of One World Gov'ment
Now that is a great story. And I thought I was clever by writing my consulting rates with a 10% "discount" for payment before the due date, back in the dark ages when I ran my own show. I can see that I should take some cues from the likes of you if I ever get back into that biz.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
hope you guys don't consider this spam, but I provide (what I consider to be) a quality hosting service at www.virtual-estate.net. Run on Linux of course. BTW, I forgot my password, but I can be reached at adam-sd@virtual-estate.net
WebSupreme (www.websupreme.com) has a good deal. 300MB server space, SSL, and lots of other features. $8 per month for resellers, $12 without the reseller discount. (and they host on Linux!)
I don't suppose it would be possible to get a list of the domains that didn't pay, would it? Not for anything nasty, I just want to make sure I don't support them accidently.
-----------------------------
Of course we will :-)
Thanks!
--Chris
At 02:21 PM 8/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>It looks like you may be getting help from Slashdot readers - would you
>consider resuming services if enough help comes in? If so, I'd be happy
>to pledge...
>
>--
>Cheers,
>Mike
>
Chris N. Gann, CTO/VP, Systems, Software, Support, Inc., chris@3si.net
168 Main Street : Northfield, MA 01360 : 413.498.5001 (v) : 413.498.4386 (fax)
Systems Integration, VAR Sales, Compaq, Cisco, SCO, FORE, 3Com, Novell and MORE!
-------------------------------- Their much-requested mailing address is:
MassLinux
55 Water Street
Shelburne Falls, MA 01370
USA
Texas, well, it doesn't exactly make you mean, but growing up here in a trailer park (really), let's just say it opens your eyes to how broad that spectrum of human behavior can be, and not generally good behavior, either. That, seeing what people got away with with good attorneys growing up in Dallas made me make sure that I had those same expensive attorneys the very minute that my redneck ass could afford them. And I have never come out behind in ten years of this. Never. Always get good contracts and always, always, always make litigation more expensive. Now that I think about it, I wonder if I should post some of my contracts on the web and de-lurk and I think that I am calling downtown right now. OK.
Set up a real business. Go to the bank where your business checking account is and set up a "merchant account" - this is what it takes to accept plastic. Unless you have some amazing fraud detection software in place, do not blindly accept credit card orders via a web form - have the customer call or fax in the payment details. Maybe the last bit is a little "old fashioned" these days, but we've been selling our software tools for 12 years now without a single fraudulent credit card transaction, which is nothing short of amazing. BTW, these fraudulent transactions are known as "chargebacks", and if a customer challenges a transaction, your merchant account provider debits the amount from your checking account IMMEDIATELY and asks questions later.
Yes. That is a very good point. You do not need to play the "negotiation game." Just make sure that the other side understands that you are not playing, i.e., you have no negotiation margins and the offers are final. If you are reasonble, normally they will agree in about ten minutes and save everyone the trouble. But you have to be very clear up front.
Bah, humbug. I've spent more on Linux software than I ever spent for MS stuff. I've bought multiple version of Linux for myself and others. I bought CivCTP, OSS sound drivers, XingMP3 Encoder for Linux.
I remember buying DOS 6.0, and I never even installed it. It sat there in the shrink wrap till I chucked it out. I just couldn't bring myself to pay for 95. NT I got for free, so MS didn't get any money there (from me). I imagine I've spent 10-20 times as much on Linux 'stuff' as I ever did on windows stuff.
My company (Fortune 500 company) uses what we call 'Prox 25' when most of our suppliers say 'Net 30'. So instead of 30 days from the invoice date, we pay on the 25th of the month following the month the invoice is dated on. So, that's anywhere from about 25 to nearly 60 days we don't pay. We'll be nicer about if the company is small and really needs the money, but otherwise that's the way it works!
On the other hand, I don't think he should bear the cost of hosting Open Source projects either. There are some less costly methods of hosting those projects.
For example, I have a host at the University of Utrecht who is allowing me to use some of their bandwidth for free. I am willing to host some open source projects and have all the resources available. Whenever I need more bandwidth, hardware or whatever, there's always been a nice company that came up and offered help.
Just mail me (email on my home page) if you need to host an Open Source project on NL.linux.org...
There are so many hosting and ISP businesses that have ran out of cash and have been bought out, or shut down.
It happens all the time, businesses shut down due to cash flow problems, and no it's not just because Linux users don't pay up. It's not fair to say that, and it's just as bad as saying everyone from Redmond came from hell.
I send my condolences to Chris, and thank him for all the time he spent on MassLinux.
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
It's not a free software supporter, but check out http://llamacom.com. telnet, mysql, php3, mod_perl, ssh, own domain, unlimited mail forwarding... i believe prices are $7-50 or so... I've got a few domains hosted by them for $20/month.
Hate to be a broken record, but... I provide free open-source project hosting too. Have for over a month. Really. Not a word of a lie. http://www.xnot.com
There's a list of some alternatives to Linuxbox at Friendly ISP at Gary's Encyclopedia I'm not sure what good this does, but someone asked for the homeless. Here's a few of them: http://bvi.linuxbox.com http://bluefish.linuxbox.com ftp://autogen.linuxbox.com/pub/ http://dooss.linuxbox.com http://barracuda.linuxbox.com
I talked my boss into letting us take on 1 or 2 small sites that were hosted free on Linuxbox. We are a startup hosting service, so right now we can't take more than 2, but I really wanted to help out in any way possible (to give back to the community that has given so much.)
Email me at extremeforce@pcisys.net if your site just lost free hosting on linuxbox. (This is my personal email. We are not pcisys.net)
Kinda proves the notion that Linux users wont pay for stuff, dont it?
Yes, Linux is about "free" software, but: (a) that is "free" as in "freedom", and (b) software doesn't include services rendered.
Yes, Linux folk are generally amongst the most pleasent, friendly, supportive, generous folk you could ever hope to meet. That doesn't mean you have a licence to rob them blind.
Yes, everyone has money-flow problems, from time to time. But giving -other- people money problems as a result is simply a good way of compounding the problem, not solving it.
I think those who owe Chris Gann money should pay up, in full, plus make a donation to him to compensate for their failure to pay on time. These people owe it to Chris, for providing the services he has.
There is -NO- excuse for depriving the Linux community of a service, for short-term gain. In the end, even those folk who have held back money will lose, as now they'll have to buy more expensive services elsewhere, for online stuff. Their short-term gain is their long-term loss, as well as everyone else's loss.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Sites that are homeless because of this loss might want to contact VA Linux; VA provides free hosting for a large number of Open Source / Linux community sites. I'm sorry to see Linuxbox go...
--------------------------
James Byers
jbyers@linux.com
...think about how many more people get a copy of windows and don't pay for it. Your pathetic comment goes nowhere, but I would guess that you know that.
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Then rm -rf their site. Simple.
This really irks me, to see someone like this taken advantage of by the very community he was tryping to advocate and help. I think this is a sad commentary about how many people out there that claim to want to do good with open source and free software are just as willing to screw someone as everyone else. IMNSHO this makes them just as bad as the very corporations they are trying to "show the way". I mean who couldn't pay the, what, 5.00-21.00 USD they owed. This is ridiculous, these people make me sick. Hypocrites one and all, they cared nothing for the person/s behind what they were taking advantage of or for the ideals and morals of the community. I wouls send money if I thought it would help, and guess what I never even used the service.I hope that any one of the deadbeat bastards that helped do this read this little rant get highly offended. Those people have ruined something for the rest of us and should be in some way punished by the community, I say have Chris give us the list of non-paying customers so that we can exact payment from them. Be it money or service they should pay, and pay more than what they owed because now none of us can ever use that resource again. So lets e-mail chris get the list and post here and on all newsgroups to let the world know what a waste of life these people really are.
Ok moderators, you can waste you mod. points moderating me down cause of flamebait, I expect it.
the subject says it all.
I'm in a company that's about to launch yet another ISP and hosting service, and the decision made from day 1 is that we _only_ accept automatic payment through credit cards, because it's a joke to have to try to hunt everybody down.
Likewise, I've been a student, I've survived for 2 weeks on $10 before, I know what it's about. If there are projects that can't afford a home and need one that kind of list should also be put together, I know there are people who are willing to help in whatever way they can and that might be as simple as mailing a check for $5 to somebody.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
I've discovered Linuxbox in may 1999.
:)
It was 6 months that my best friend, Hamid, was died, and since this time I wanted to make a website to honour his memory.
My website started, hosted by the firm I used to work, and was designed by them. But, as I did not work any longer for Babel, I had to find a new home for hamidsfriends.com.
I went in Bordeaux, where my family lives, and I discovered Linuxbox at the cybercafe, because on Freshmeat I had found a nice software whose homepage was hosted there.
I could not imagine that you can have a shell account, php and mysql for $10 per month. So I immediatly signed up, and payed 1 year by advance; Chris got my domain name for me, and payed for me; Later I sent him money via the postal office because I's difficult to send cash to the States.
He, and rudog were very kind, and I've talked with them lots of time. When I finished my day, I found them online, and we talk lots.
Now, I miss them : I'm homeless again.
I was very happy to have a place on the net where I was able to put my website.
The last time I talked chris, he has lots of signups, but not many paying clients. And it was terrible.
Later, I've convinced a friend of mine to signup 2 : 2 frenchmen on Linuxbox
And today, the linuxbox adventure is finished.
I'm very sad for them; I cannot say lots, but I'm still convinced that there is a place for affordable webhosting, with real features.
Go, Chris. Don't give me my money back, you'll need it.
I'm dreaming of a new linuxbox.
Professional webhosting for everyone, doesn't it taste like the linux spirit?
Yes, but ... if you have serious penalties (and Texas, for instance, allows penalties, but not interest)(and this is a key issues, as the state will fine you if you try to assess interest-based penalties) built into your contracts and they sign it and part of the contract states that the penalties are not covered by the mediation clauses (yes, I paid a lot for these contracts), then a)you will get paid far more that they could reasonably get from repurchase fees and b)they will either drop you (fine) or do things properly next time (fine as well). Example: I do UNIX consulting and some staffing, and I did some work for a large real estate holding company here in Texas (mostly Dallas, but also Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Ft. Worth). They didn't pay. I was out about $300,000 for two months of work for 22 people. I was onto a few more contracts to I just coped (unhappily), relied on a loan from the bank that I use (I do a lot of work with them and have maintained a solid relationship) to cover costs, and patiently reminded the company every week with a registered letter, with return reciept, via my attorneys, that the fees were building up. This went on for two months (90 days past the end of the project). About 90 days after, I recieved a panicked call from an accountant there who had noticed the fees and so on for the first time. You see (I had discovered), they would let the bills ride for at least 60 days after they were due because they could, and they would file any letters in the same folder to "age" until they got to them. Policy. So this poor beancounter had opened a file full of polite letters referencing the contract that they had signed and pointing out the penalties that they were paying, which at that point were almost as much as the contract itself. I referred him to my attorneys. They wished to litigate, we said fine, and then apparently someone finally READ THE FSCKING CONTRACT THAT THEY HAD SIGNED and realised that they hadn't a hope in hell of winning this one. They paid: $300,000 for the contract (as agreed) $265,000 in penalties $120,000 in legal fees (mine) I cannot see, barring heavy work with offshore bridge loans or something, how they could have made 120% on the money in three months. I expect that they will not do business with us again. Their loss. Lesson: Pay a very good team of attorneys for your contracts as soon as you can afford it. I have seen contracts that took 30 minutes to write and saved by butt and cost $200 and I have seen 120 page monsters that cost $20,000 the first time. It was worth it. Of course, you have to take what you can afford, but get the best that you can afford, and always assume that people will litigate if it is cheaper and structure contracts to make it far more expensive.
If they make that clear up front, I inflate my costs to cover letting the payments ride. Then I offer a discount for doing net 30. They take the discount and do the net 30. Otherwise, I penalise them severely and they either never do business with us again (after a little legal to-ing and fro-ing) or the don't sign the contract. Works for me either way. Don't be afraid to be up front. You can be firm without being rude.
Very sad to see linuxbox go.. sigh. I can't say we don't have the same problems over here, but we've learned to deal with most of the freeloaders. (every 60 or so days we have a "Freeloader purge". You'd be amazed at the amount of support "paying customers" need, and how many credit cards they "just got"). anyways, if anyone displaced, or just anyone at all that has a legitimate project to help the community out, feel free to contact me to get setup. Phil Doroff phil21@ings.com www.ings.com
You aren't even getting started: write in penalty amounts for non-payment, require mediation for everything but the penalties, require proper notification for changes, and indemnify yourself as much as the local law allows. Then, keep your books very carefully, always act in good faith, keep good records, and if someone tries to screw you, you will ream them so well and with so little effort that it will actually make you money compared to a normal contract-holder paying on time. You shouldn't ever lose. That is poor planning.
Getting paid is a pain in the neck no matter what you do. I've owned an ISP for coming up on four years, now, and I don't have any trouble getting paid (for service---consulting is another matter) because I don't treat any customer as special and everyone pays in advance. (Even Fortune 500 companies: I get a check from Paramount every year, before they get the service.)
In order to process credit cards, you need two things: a merchant account and some means of processing the charges. If you've never done this before, you'll likely have some trouble getting the merchant account so you might have to deal with a company that specializes in giving merchant accounts to "high risk" ventures. (That's you, until you've got a track record, and maybe even then. We'll be terminating our relationship with our current bank because they won't set up a merchant account with us despite our nearly four-year record.) The one we used is a company called Cardservice, International. Their discount rate (the amount of money they withold when they put charges in your account) is slightly outrageous and their "lease to own" deal on equipment is VERY bad (to the tune of about five times what the terminal is worth.) However, they'll take just about anybody.
To process the cards, you'll need some kind of equipment or software. Depending on how you want to do this, you can get either one and it'll work. A terminal is somewhat cheaper than Linux software (from Hell's Kitchen Systems---check their ads in Linux Journal and Sysadmin) but is vastly less convenient for you to use. If you decide to go with a terminal, you're best bet is to look in your local yellow pages for used office equipment places who will likely have terminals for reasonable prices. The vendors of the equipment or software may even know who to talk to if you want a merchant account. (I would if I was one of them, but I'm not.)
One thing you should remember is this: Always get a signature. If there is a dispute (and there will be disputes) you win if you have a valid signature. You lose if you don't. (We always cave when we get the "blue envelope" so this is hearsay, but it comes from a source that I tend to believe.)
My friend's site is hosted on Linux at WebSupreme. They give a ridiculous amount of space (300 megabytes!) and SSL server. their site advertises as low as 7.96/month (depends on how many sites you have).
Check out www.websupreme.com
I bet you don't screw them the same way you screw your other suppliers ... because they'll cut your ass off! Why screw everyone else ... because you can get away with it, and your accountant slime-balls think they are Brainiacs for stretching the cash flow out a few more days ... on the backs of your honest vendors.
Well, Business is Business People, You have to have a plan of attack and a way to cope with normal business issues. Non paying lusers is a huge problem with any business. Hell, i don't pay all my parking tickets myself and that effects one person or another in one fashion or another.
Basically my gist is your business model has to compensate for these people. If they are a problem, sell off the accounts to a collection agency and get what you can. Write off as losses and save some cash on taxes.
While i have faith in the linux community, you don't just close doors because you have a few deadbeats. 7000 in debt is NOTHING and i think thats kind of rediculous to shut down.
I've missed car payments, i've paid my telephone bill late. I had to go to the hospital and spent every dime i had on that.. other people have the same problems and can't make payments. BUT they do turn off my services, disable my long distance or notify me of there cancellation/reconnection policy
So just get the deadbeats to pay, or cancel there accounts and focus on new and incoming sales and paying customers.. OBVIOUSLY the current pricing model doesn't cover your costs so that may be the biggest concern rather then blaming it on the customers
Their sites are all hosted on Linux servers. I think they have plans starting from $8 per month.
WAKE UP! They're Open Sourcers! Its not about if they can afford it, they believe that anyone making money from their efforts, especially in advancement of an Open Source cause, is evil. Its quite simple. These money-oriented slashdot posts kill me. If you refuse to pay programmers, programmers will catch on and refuse to pay webmasters, then webmasters will try to refuse to pay their bandwidth providers and BANG, it ends there because bandwidth providers are SMART. When they don't get paid, they cut the users off. Capitalism works. use it.
When will you Socialists learn? Free software is evil. And it is FREE as in FREE BEER!
No matter how much I liked someone, if they signed a contract where they had to pay x, then they should pay! It's hard to actually run server and bandwidth w/o the dineros. That's the way it is these days, I'm sad to say....it's a reality, not necessarily a condition.
..partially because of the prices, but really because of his support of Open Source projects. Although my site has nothng directly to do with it, I do use almost all Open Source tools to create the site (I do have a weakness for Dreamweaver...). I saw it as my chance to put my money where my mouth was. And so I did -- I paid for my first month as soon as I got the bill. And, for what it's worth, I was right -- There are damn few ISP's who are willing to work with you like these guys did when I moved over. Their docs wern't the best, but the guy helping me fixed me right up, which counts for a hell of a lot in my book. I'm willing to pay twice as much for this kind of service -- and will, if given the chance. Tell'm to pull the plug on the grifters, and let's keep going! :)
It really is a huge problem in all businesses, especially small ones. Larger companies are horrible about paying bills. They will push you around like you don't even exist. Your terms might say "Net 30" on your invoice, but when you call they will just laugh and say, "Well, we don't care what the terms were, we only cut checks twice a year". There was an architecture firm where I live that actually has a "secret" policy to be at least a million dollars in debt at all times.
What's sad is that there is nothing you can do about it since using the law against them will only hurt you in the long run (you destroy your relationship with them), and there are too many other saps out there willing to get their account, even if they do take a year to pay.
support gun control: take guns from cops
Microsoft in the red, or the black.
I just mailed $20 out to help make up for the welching losers out there that haven't paid up.
Obivously, I didn't need to do this, but even more obivously I didn't do it for the sick jerks not paying their debt.
I did it because I have been feeling the need to help the OSS community at least a little. Since I do use their software everyday at home and work.
I use to contribute a lot, but with work and school. It's come down to sleep or code. (Yes, I know most would say code. But, if I get any less sleep I'll start falling asleep while driving.)
So this is the answer. Or at least one of them. All the time I hear newbies asking how can they help if they don't know how to program.
Well, sending even $5 to help others give webspace to OSS projects isn't a bad choice. Especially, if you are stressed for time.
Helping make documentation is another one that most people can do with even bits and pieces of spare time.
Reporting bugs is one that more people should do. It's not that hard. It doesn't take that much time. No really it doesn't, you can fill out some bug reporting information quickly to help others to make a better product for everyone.
Even feedback helps!!! Make a few suggestions politely. And don't forget that it won't kill you to send a few quick emails to some developers saying, "Thank you for taking your time to make such a great product for everyone to enjoy." They will probably like the fact that someone took the time to exercise some manners and say thank you.
Please, add to this list and exercise a few of these suggestions. Help make the OSS world a better place.
Eros, apologizes in advance for any spelling mistakes and/or run on sentences. Please, refer to the paragraph mentioning sleep.
How can we know if this is the right address? Everybody who posted it posted as an AC.
Grrr.... that will teach me to use pseudo-html tags. My last post was meant to be a blatant tongue-in-cheek troll.
My dad's website is hosted by them, my dad is genna be pissed
This type of negligence is, unfortunately, widespread throughout the worldwide industries. Not just the software industry.
Lessons learned here: 1) Get everything in writing and 2) Provide in your contract that allows you, the payee, to terminate services with extreme prejudice in case of non-payment. That way if they decide to sue you for, oh, removing a website that they never paid for, you can counter-sue. Contractual obligations, and such. :^)
Otherwise, common-sense cover-your-ass rules apply.
--- Journals are boring; Go to my web page instead