FreeBSD 3.3 Released

Cale Pearce was the first to write in with the news that FreeBSD 3.3 has been released, along with some release notes. As always, please use a mirror. Lots of new drivers, USB updates and other goodies included.

Comments

Redundant

[BSD_Beck]

Wheeee! I'm gonna upgrade all my boxes tomorrow. Which is kinda weird, now that I think of it. I've had *no* trouble with 3.2 ...


Bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh, bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh!

Re:Redundant

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm, is your sig line by any chance supposed to be the bass line from the Primus song "My name is Mud"? just wondering.

Finally!

[NovaX]

The last week with 3.3RC, and a new ethernet line.. that was painful. *Lots* of security fixes (stuff in the ports even removed).
but.. Yippie! :)

Some questions

[Zagato-sama]

Hmm.. well I tried installing FreeBSD about two years ago and the text based install completely confused the heck out of me, is the install engine the same or has it changed over the last year or so? Also does FreeBSD have a driver for the Be file system? ;) Finally is there a downloadable iso?

Re:Some questions

[Decibel]

The install is still the same (as of 3.0 anyway). It is a little confusing at first, but after a little use it's not that bad.

I don't know of a downloadable ISO, but if you can, I'd suggest you download a 'local mirror' to a local machine and do an FTP install off of there. It's relatively fast to do installs then (even if it takes you multiple attempts, like it did the first time I installed it.) Expect to use about 300 meg or so; you don't need the entire distribution tree either. Specifically, only get sys from the /src tree. You can also get by without /ports, /packages, and /proflibs. After you get the box up and running, you can grab these online (assuming the box has net access).

Dunno about the Be filesystem drivers, but I kinda doubt it.

Re:Some questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Give it another go if you have an interest (i'd say based on 3.2 experience) I'm not running it right now, but it's the only system I have confidence that I could get installed via ftp over a modem. (ok I bet I could handle RedHat over a modem but ..) Compared to trying to download/install Debian it's a walk in the park --even a joy in some ways! After dealing with rpm's the FreeBSD wway --/stand/sysinstall & ports'n'packages-- is so easy you may find yourself laughing maniacally as u dl 1 thing after another and watch them flawlessly install themselves.

Re:Some questions

[Anonymous Coward]

I already do that with debian, hell I have the choice of binary or source packages now even :) Installed everything but the initial kernel over ftp too via dselect. (except for KDE... their strict standards over what can be in the official packages, even the non-free stuff, can be a pain) Not meant as a detriment to xBSD's and the excellent port tree idea, just dont like debian being sold short.

Re:Some questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for showing admirable restraint and not flaming. What I said was unfair --i'm venting some with Debian as I just blew an install attempt. I'll get there one day with Debian. There are some good things about its install and what I hear about apt -get upgrade and dpkg makes me keep trying. I dimly understand the similarities to FreeBSD's package system and it does seem the True Path of Righteousness. Meanwhile, though, Dselect, necessary hardware "arguments" and the little mistakes I make keep killing me.

Re:Some questions

[Anonymous Coward]

There are iso's but there are hard to come by. FreeBSD get's there CD's made by Walnut Creek and that money funds the development. FreeBSD's and OpenBSD's installs are very very easy. What's hard is configuration. After using linux and configuring it, there were some things in BSD land that were awkward for me. However, I found FreeBSD + KDE to be so rock solid and speedy it took my breath away. However, one has to be willing to do a lot of hand tweaking to get it how you want it. Lots of chmod and chown; that can get tedious. Open BSD kicks ass if you want apach-ssl to work right out of the box. Trying to get the same functionality and ease out of Linux has given me major Headaches. What I had problems with was getting either BSD to dial the modem. I should have just stuck with it, but I was running out time so I went with what I knew, Debian. I must say that Debian is creeping on both BSDs with respect to both security and stability. I predict that Linux will surpass all BSDs within 2 years in all respects now there are big Corp dollars on the task. The flip side of this is that the BSDs will regain the home hacker market. What made Linux grow like mad could make the BSDs grow in a similar fashion when 3rd generation internet services come in (whatever those will look like).

Re:Some questions

[Anonymous Coward]

IMHO it's worth sticking with it to get the modem working, but I know the temptation to go with what you know. A few months back I scrapped a perfectly good LRP (Linux Router Project) system and installed FreeBSD on it just to avoid having to figure out how to get PPP working on it... our DSL modem died and I wanted my connection up NOW.

I've always found FreeBSD's userland PPP to be very easy to set up and very stable. It's so nice to have everything in one place -- want dial-on-demand functionality? add '-auto'; want NAT? add '-alias'... I spent several days 3 or 4 years back trying to set up a Linux box running PPP and diald. Setting PPP up wasn't any problem, but we never did get diald working quite right.

Things have surely changed since then, but FreeBSD's ppp does everything I've needed, and it has always worked on the first try for me.

Re:Some questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it is cooler, just do the right 'make release' in the tree and it will produce a ready to burn cd section for you. I found this very valuable for making custom boot floppies and custom boot CD with just freebsd, apache, perl and msql.

Re:Some questions

[kkenn]

There's an iso of the first (most important) CD on ftp.freebsd.org - check the announcement notes.

Also, I'd invite you to give the install another shot - it's not a perfect installer, but it's also not that confusing if you read the screen :)

The installer is only of course a once-off, so once you get past that you're running free in the wide world of FreeBSD itself :-)

Re:Some questions

[bugg]

Personally, I think its the other way around.

I think linux will survive no more than 2 more years

A good number of non-cluebies have already left, if you don't believe me, lurk in #freebsd and #linux.

I think things will be really different in 2 years.

Of course, who know what'll be king in 4? :D

Summats up...

[Anonymous Coward]

My watch (in the UK) says 5:10 am, and this story just popped up, with 1st post at 1.10am BST? This post just to see what time it's logged at before I pester anyone...

Re:Summats up...

[dadams]

Look on the prefs page. It says the Local Time thing is funky.

Late night downloads

[JDizzy]

I hope the bulk of the bandwidth doesn't go away now that it has been Slashdot'd. That seems to always make i spike in downloads, and that inversly affects my download time. Errrrr.

[Anonymous Coward]

Man ... Has it gotten easier to get a Score:2 on a comment, or what?

FreeBSD as a firewall

[Rucker]

I saw mention of packet filtering changes in the release notes. How does FreeBSD stack up to Linux as a firewall+masquerader? Are the ipfw/natd maintained? Are there mechanisms to allow active mode ftp and other things that don't fit nicely? I've used ipchains up to now, but I'm considering a change.

Re:FreeBSD as a firewall

[Anonymous Coward]

How does FreeBSD stack up to Linux as a firewall+masquerader?

Depends on your perspective. Real NAT is supported (ipchains does only masquerading), otherwise I don't see much difference. If you have access to a FreeBSD 3+ system, look at /etc/rc.firewall which shows how to build firewalls.

A fundamental difference is that NAT is implemented as a user level process (through natd). The kernel contains the firewall code which allows diverting ip packets to user level processes.

Are the ipfw/natd maintained?

yes

Are there mechanisms to allow active mode ftp and other things that don't fit nicely?

I don't know of similar modules like Linux' ip_masq* modules. The following Daemon News says explicitly that non-passive mode ftp is not supported: http://www.daemonnews.org/199902/answerman.html#na t

Re:FreeBSD as a firewall

[Anonymous Coward]

The kernel with "ipfilter" which included FreeBSD 3.X as default, enables your non-passive ftp client. See also in http://cheops.anu.edu.au/~avalon/ip-filter.html

Re:FreeBSD as a firewall

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you planning on using a standalone firewall? you might want to check out drawbridge.tamu.edu This is a full featured, standalone firewall that uses two ethernet cards and firewalls between the two. I run one at my shop, and it was the easiest thing to install. We have a 10BaseT connection to campus, and the lowly P133 doesn't even break a sweat, and it doesn't show up in the traceroute. It's a great solution for a medium to large network. I also run it at home for my ISDN stuff. I use a 386SX-40 Single Board Computer, and a 120MB HD. Works great.

Re:FreeBSD as a firewall

[jbf]

natd is maintained... as mentioned before, it executes in user space, so it's easy to hack up yourself. (basically it's a front-end to libalias) active mode ftp (outbound) works for me, and has since 2.2.7 (the first kernel version Then again, sometimes ICQ works without my ugly port configuration, so maybe I'm just lucky.

Re:FreeBSD as a firewall

[Anonymous Coward]

FreeBSD offers both nat/ ipfw and IPF(IPfilter). I was using Linux Mandrake up to 2 months ago as my firewall machine and let me tell you it was a PAIN to set up. I tried FreeBSD with IPfilter and i was done in *THREE* Lines in a file called /etc/natrules for my NAT(read ipmasq). About perfomance i find FreeBSD much faster than linux is. About firewalling Ipfilter is prob the best solution i have ever seen. The syntax is easy simple and understandable UNLIKE ipchains. I found it much easier using IPFilter than using ipchains ...(IPfilter will work on linux boxes as well but not with ipchains.) It all depends of what you are used yo and how much time you are willing to sacrifice. Overall FreeBSD has been much better than my former Mandrake firewall but as a workstation it lacks i find.

Re:FreeBSD as a firewall

[Lazaru5]

1. I saw mention of packet filtering changes in the release notes.

2. Are the ipfw/natd maintained?

You answered your own question.

Re:FreeBSD as a firewall

[starslab]

I've been looking for something like this for ages, especially if my DSL provider starts metering my bandwidth.

Thank you ever so much for the link..

ps : I looked, but could find no answers. Anyone know if Linux is capable of this kind of activity?

I go RTFM on the Drawbridge now..

"Binaries may die but source code lives forever"
-- Unknown

SkyHawk
Andrew Fremantle

USB support?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the release notes: "USB support has been improved."

What does this mean, exactly? How much is USB supported on freeBSD? Could someone out there please provide info on the USB support under freeBSD? Is it still in development or is it working now? What devices are supported etc.?

And the final question: If USB is working well under freeBSD, when can we expect to see it in Linux?

Re:USB support?

[Anonymous Coward]

For USB info: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl For links to this and other info: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/proje cts.html

Re:USB support?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using both Linux and BSD's UBS stacks
.. and USB is getting along nicely on both.

But FreeBSD, unlike linux it is on a clear track, with clear releases in the main kernel lane, and has got a nice foundation. Something which linux
(at least to me) lost after Linus zapped Inaky and
a focal point was lost.

For those who like cool toys, try http://www.activewireinc.com it works with freebsd right now, and works with linux if you hack the kernel a little.

USB in linux..

[prodeje]

There is all ready some basic USB support in 2.2.x and that will be greatly improved in 2.4. You could also go and use 2.3.x if you want more USB support, last I tried it was pretty stable. Anyhow.. it's coming along.

...

Neat

[Palin Majere]

It's always nice to see a new release for *BSD.

I've long heard tales of how stable and secure the various BSD distributions are, and I'd be interested in trying one of them out, except...

I have no idea where to start finding info on them.

Anybody have a good resource to get started on *BSD with? I'm a "competent" Linux user, but from what I've been able to tell, *BSD just doesn't have the same type of huge 'fan-base' that Linux does.

Re:Neat

[mbrubeck]

Your best bets are:

• http://www.netbsd.org/
• http://www.openbsd.org/
• http://www.freebsd.org/

Seriously, all three contain a lot of information and links. Have fun!

Re:Neat

[ninjaz]

Here are some fan-base type sites:

http://www.daemonnews.org/
http://www.freebsdrocks.com/
http://www.freebsddiary.com

Re:Neat

[JatTDB]

The various BSDs all maintain fairly decent websites (freebsd.org, netbsd.org, openbsd.org). My personal BSD of choice, FreeBSD, has an expansive online documentation resource, which you can also install to your local machine as an option during the setup program.

Also, #freebsd on EFnet IRC contains many people who are willing to help...just be sure you read the man pages first about whatever you're asking. Nothing's more annoying than a user who throws a fit because he can't figure out how to do something which is clearly explained in the relevant man pages.

Re:Neat

[thundrcast]

On FreeBSD they have both a Handbook and FAQ. Both are excellent. The Handbook will guide you step by step through almost everything you will need as a beginner. One of the best things about FreeBSD is that all the resources are very good and in one place. Check out the FreeBSD website. You can also get the Compete Guide to FreeBSD by Greg Lehy, it is very very good. A little pricy, but comes with the CDs and everything. Excellent resource to have.

Re:Neat

[Anonymous Coward]

Just watch out for the resident asshole at large - previously Obi-Wan, now pachell.

Re:Neat

[Anonymous Coward]

You can also get the Compete Guide to FreeBSD by Greg Lehy, it is very very good. A little pricy, but comes with the CDs and everything.

Acutally the price is lower if you buy from CompUSA. They are now stocking the FreeBSD Power PakThe price is supose to be $59.95, but many are getting it from them at $49.95. The Power Pak includes the normal 4-cdrom releaese, PLUS the 6-cdrom Toolkit set, PLUS Greg Lahey's book.

Hmmm,

[Bill Currie]

judging by a quick glance at the release notes, this seems to be on par with a new release of Red Hat or Debian, etc. FreeBSD 3.3 seems to be the whole distribution, not just the FreeBSD kernel (is it even referred to as that?).

Good work, guys, but I'm not actually interested in installing FreeBSD. The three year gap between my attempt at FreeBSD (late 94 or early 95) and Linux (late 97) is the main factor in this. hw support during my two attempts was my main issue, though I'm sure FreeBSD now supports the Matsushita cdrom interface now, it didn't in 94/95 and Linux did in 97 (I was still using dos/windows with djgpp in between). I almost gave Linux a go back in 94, but I wasn't sure what it was:) but I recognised FreeBSD's pedigree from the Dr Dobbs articles on porting BSD to the 386. I've still got that CD collecting dust.

None of this is meant as tinder. Good luck to the FreeBSD guys from a guy in the Linux camp.

Re:Hmmm,

[cmc]

judging by a quick glance at the release notes, this seems to be on par with a new release of Red Hat or Debian, etc. FreeBSD 3.3 seems to be the whole distribution, not just the FreeBSD kernel (is it even referred to as that?).

Nope! FreeBSD has always been a full system. The kernel is the bit that sets up the devices and helps you use them, and the rest is the part you interact with. It's a full OS -- both kernel and userland are in the same CVS repository.

(Note: I'm shocked to see a positive article so soon in a FreeBSD story. :)

Re:Hmmm,

[Bill Currie]

Thanks. That's what I'd gathered from various messages here and there (mostly here on slashdot over the last 1.5 years), and actually looking at a FreeBSD release note.

Also, what's there to be negative about? FreeBSD and Linux are just different (esp in licensing which is, admittedly, a religious topic). I've run into a few problems getting things to port (ssleay-ified telnet), but nothing to slam BSD over. I don't dislike FreeBSD, I just don't use it. Choice is good, choice works:).

Re:Hmmm,

[Christopher B. Brown]

In 1993, I bought what appeared to be the last Mitsumi ``single speed'' CD-ROM drive in the city of Toronto in order to do an install of FreeBSD.

At the time, Slackware provided more "nifty, readily installable stuff" than FreeBSD, and it made more sense for me to run Linux.

They nonetheless have a longstanding, mature, system that just seems to keep improving.

FreeBSD is now getting shelf space at CompUSA, which should give it at least a little bit of "mindshare." It appears that some BSDers are a bit sore at the widespread public reception of Linux as "nearly mainstream;" this at least gives a bit of publicity in their favor.

Re:Hmmm,

[JordanH]

FreeBSD is now getting shelf space at CompUSA, which should give it at least a little bit of "mindshare."

Hadn't seem FreeBSD at CompUSA. Can't say that I was looking for it though.

I see Linux all over the place. From what I'm hearing here, there's no reason that *BSD couldn't be a big seller at CompUSA and Circuit City, too. It sure is getting some good press lately. Seems like you could target market FreeBSD as a more 'serious' Free OS, like Linux, but more 'mature'.

Is anybody taking a *BSD distro mass market like Red Hat and others are doing with Linux? Aside from BSDI, of course, but they have a different target market than the Red Hat's do.

How about commercial support? Will anybody other than BSDI contract commercial support for *BSD to you?

Is the existence of BSDI, so far ahead of any potential startup in the *BSD field, holding down the potential entries in this field?

Maybe BSDI should hit the shrink-wrapped distro market if nobody else does. If not them, maybe one of the Linux vendors could pick it up as a sideline. Seems like there would be obvious synergies for a Linux distro company if Linux and FreeBSD are the same in Userland as we've been hearing.

Re:Hmmm,

[Guy Harris]

...if Linux and FreeBSD are the same in Userland as we've been hearing.

I'm not sure who's saying they're "the same in userland", but their userlands aren't the same code - the GNU stuff in userland may be the same in some BSD and some Linux distribution, but the C library in *BSD isn'tGNU "libc", and there are many non-GNU utilities in *BSD as well (the window system is probably similar, as most Linux distributions and the BSDs, with the possible exception of the commercial BSD/OS, use XFree86).

Re:Hmmm,

[Bill Currie]

I'm not certain, but I seem to remember hearing that all the standard tools ('cept the compiler tool chain) are non-gnu. I believe BSD has its own equivelents to fileutils, textutils, shellutils etc. I also suspect they don't use bash, but I don't know.

Re:Hmmm,

[JordanH]

I guess I was trying to say that there are provisions for *BSD to run Linux executables, thus making them potentially compatible in Userland.

Re:Hmmm,

[Bill Currie]

Isn't that via a compatability layer rather than true similarities? I believe the BSD API is sufficiently different from the SYSV/Linux (not quite the same thing) API that one side or the other would have to either change their entire API (yeah, right, hell will go through several cycles of freazing/thawing before that happens), or provide some sort of compatability layer, possibly through dynamic linking. I don't actually know enough to give an authorative answer.

Re:Hmmm,

[JordanH]

Well, if this is trickier than people have made it out to be here. I'd like to hear about it.

With all the application vendors enthusiastically supporting Linux, a *BSD with a Linux "personality" might be a marketable thing.

Of course, cultural differences might make this difficult. *BSD supporters might prefer a Linux with a *BSD "personality", or perhaps they would prefer no Linux at all.

Re:Hmmm,

[Anonymous Coward]

I once bought a 1x Mitsumi CD-ROM drive in an interesting fashion. I walked into a local hole-in-the-wall computer store and asked if they had one. The person at the counter said the only one available was installed in the Cash Register machine. He then proceeeded to power down the Cash Register PC and pull the Mitsumi drive to sell to me.

That's what I call customer service!

Re:Hmmm,

[cmc]

Also, what's there to be negative about?

People are negative that it's not Linux. Browse any BSD story at -1 and you'll see what I mean.

Re:Hmmm,

[Guy Harris]

I believe the BSD API is sufficiently different from the SYSV/Linux (not quite the same thing) API that one side or the other would have to either change their entire API (yeah, right, hell will go through several cycles of freazing/thawing before that happens), or provide some sort of compatability layer, possibly through dynamic linking.

The APIs are quite similar - UNIX-flavored OSes don't have immense differences between their APIs, these days, and at least some of the differences (e.g., signal()) can be dealt with by using shiny new POSIX replacements that work the same (or, at least, should work the same) on all of them.

For example, read() is read(), getpwnam() is getpwnam(), etc. - neither OS would have to completely change those for compatibility.

The application binary interfaces might be different, e.g. the layout of a stat structure might be different, which is why there's a compatibility layer.

CDROM.com

[Lord Kestrel]

Anyone know when cdrom.com will have cd's ready?
I could download the iso and burn my own, but I'd like to support them.

Re:CDROM.com

[jreynold]

Jordan mentioned that if testing goes OK, the
images will be sent off for high volume
replication tomorrow. Probably a few weeks until
cdrom.com ships them then.

Yes, please do support cdrom.com. They do a wonderful job supporting
FreeBSD! I've been CVSuping to -STABLE for months now but will continue my CD
subscription for that purpose alone.

Great work all FreeBSD developers!

Re:CDROM.com

[Lord Kestrel]

>Yes, please do support cdrom.com. They do a wonderful job supporting FreeBSD!

Not only that, but they mirror many other places, and I can always get at least 40kb/s downloads from them. Very well run site.

Re:CDROM.com

[drwiii]

A few weeks.. rad.. they've got my money. This will be my 5th purchased CD set.

ISO image

[Latrell Sprewell]

The .ISO image is in the directory above the link posted in the article, so before people post asking where it is, the .ISO is in here. Only disk 1 of 4 is available as an .ISO from the main FreeBSD FTP site (Walnut Creek), as the README.TXT states:

This directory contains FreeBSD installation ISO images (the 1st CD out of every 4 CD set from Walnut Creek CDROM). This should be enough to install the full operating system, though if you're looking for the full experience or wish to support the project through your CD purchase, please see http://www.freebsdmall.com. Thanks!

If you must have the entire 4 CD set for free, I'm sure that the usual suspects will have .ISO images of all 4 CDs soon. However, if you use it, you should support good software with your purchase.

Re:ISO image

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the pointers.

Can someone explain what the three different image files in that directory are? 3.3-install.cd0.bz2 and 3.3-install.cd0.gz would seem to be the same file, just compressed differently, but I can't imagine bzip compressing that much better than gzip. The other file, disc1.img is smaller than both compressed files, so it can't have the same content. Can someone explain the differences between the three files, or tell me where to look to find out (without downloading all three)?

Getting a bit off-topic... I had initially dismissed bzip as a gzip that does maybe 10% better, and not really worth the hassle. Do I need to take another look at it?

Re:ISO image

[SlaterSan]

Yeah they were still being uploaded at the time.. you could see them grow if you refreshed...

Re:ISO image

[Rendus]

Well, 10% of 600mb is a good chunk of time if you're downloading at 56k (but then again, what's another week? :) For big files, it's very worth it, but for those 50k tarballs, don't bother unless you're on a 300bps modem.

Re:ISO image

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm looking for Linux (all dists)ISO images, is there any around? apart from linuxberg...f**king slow

Re:ISO image

[drazi]

As well as being better at compression, bzip2 is BSD licensed, whereas gzip is GPL'ed.

As such, bzip2 is becoming preferred by BSD folk, especially as bzip2 can be linked into BSD kernels but gzip cannot (gzip's GPL would "infect" the whole kernel).

Re:ISO image

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is Mandrake's list of mirrors. They have ISO images available in the 'iso' directory.

Here is a web page of instructions on where to download cd images, and why you shouldn't ;-)

I'm sure other distros have images available too... It shouldn't take much work to turn them up...

Re:ISO image

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite true. I'm just very wary of change when the gains are minimal. I'd gladly spend 10% longer on a download than face the challenge of having to maintain half a dozen different archiving tools. The way DOS systems go, you need Zip, RAR, ACE, ARJ, LZH, TAR/gzip, and a few others to be able to download any piece of software at random off the net and stand a chance of decompressing it... it's enough to drive me crazy, especially when they usually all differ from the size of a .zip by <200K.

It hasn't happened yet in the unix world, thank god. If .bz2 is the next big thing, I only hope that the transition goes as smoothly as did the transition from .Z to .gz.

Someone else's comment about licensing issues was an important factor I hadn't considered as well.

Re:ISO image

[ochinko]

The way DOS systems go, you need Zip, RAR, ACE, ARJ, LZH, TAR/gzip, and a few others to be able to download any piece of software at random off the net and stand a chance of decompressing it...

Actually any decent ZIP program decompresses most if not all of these whereas gzip and bzip behave rather snobbishly talking only to themselves.

Re:ISO image

[McKing]

bzip/gzip would have to include non-free code to be able to uncompress the file types you use as examples. It is not snobbish at all.

CVSupped it this afternoon

[Anonymous Coward]

Another great release. Rolled over my box from 3.3-RC#5 to 3.3-STABLE.

As usual, kudos to the FreeBSD team for distributing the finest free OS you can put on your x86 box, BAR NONE.

Proof that slashdot trolls are little kiddies

[/]

It's 1am EST and out of 21 messages, there hasn't been a single "LINUX ROOLZ, BSD SUX" (or vice versa) post. It's all been civil (and mostly positive), and that's just as it should be. I guess it's past the trolls' bedtimes.

(Of course by the time I've said this, the euro-trolls will be waking up and logging in.)

Re:Proof that slashdot trolls are little kiddies

[bsletten]

I was just thinking the same thing myself. What a pleasant change of pace to have a positive, exchange of information on the subject without a lot of flame crap.

Warms the heart...

Confusing Install?

[Christopher B. Brown]

The only portion of the install that particularly "phased" me was the scheme for establishing disk "slices."

This results since the BSDs did not start with an attempt at interoperability with the MS-DOS partitioning scheme.

Aside from partitioning, the install scheme has seemed to have less differences between it and (say) Slackware's install scheme than there is between the triad of (Debian, Slackware, Red Hat).

I expect that there will be some phone lines and cable modems "burning" through tonight; if I were interested in doing a 3.3 install, I'd probably order a CD today, and let the bandwidth come via the mail system...

Whee!

[Trick]

Glad to see this baby's gone stable. Though I see a hell of a lot of sniping (not in the comments here yet, though, strangely enough) about which is better, I've got no problem using both 'em, and I find it really hard to beat *BSD as a server platform.

I think Linux may have some headway on the desktop (and whether that's because it's more suitable, or just because it's gotten more apps through media coverage, I can't say), but if I'm setting up a box I just want to connect and have workwithout any worries, I still go with a BSD.

Besides, if the two mascots got into a fight, you know the daemon'd win. An angry penguin biting you in the butt ain't jack compared to the damage of a red-hot trident.

Re:Whee!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, that's it.... someone just _has_ to do a Celebrity Deathmatch-esque sketch of that. :)

Re:Whee!

[spodpit]

> Oh, that's it.... someone just _has_ to do a Celebrity Deathmatch-esque sketch of that. :)

Oh please ... let it happen! Not that I really want either of them to loose, however I think the idea has *great* humour potential!

Re:Whee!

[ajs]

FreeBSD will eventually fall to its competition.

After all:

1. It lacks the BSoD (even given the attempt to indicate compatibility with BSoD-enabled systems through a misleading name).
   
2. Its mascot is a cute, little devil. That's DEVIL, folks. Just ask Phil Foglio! It's SATAN! Prince of lies! (Hmmm... I feel a filk coming on: "BSD Went Down to Georgia", based on the old urban legend about the woman who walked into a diner in texas wearing the Daemon on a shirt)
   
3. It's too fast to promote conventional chip design bloat.
   
4. GNOME doesn't run as stably on BSD as it does on Linux, and we can't figure out how to load background images if we don't have GNOME! (xload...WHAT?)
   
5. Two words: Splash Screen. Where's the cute flying widgets in space while my diagnostics are being packaged up and thrown into /dev/null? Or, at least the smiling computer icon.
   

Clearly this OS is not ready for prime-time, and if we want to go with a well-supported, commercial-grade operating system, we'll have to look elsewhere. Meanwhile, you BSD fanatics can keep trying to convince us that Yahoo! and Hotmail aren't running on MacOS, just like the Army.

PS: In case you didn't get it: ;-)

Odd.. no email yet

[starslab]

I'm subscribed to FreeBSD-announce, and I haven't gotten any email regarding the release of 3.3-RELEASE yet... perhaps they're waiting for the mirrors to pick it up first, and weren't counting on slashdot blowing the cover?

:)

If there's even a small fraction as many FreeBSD users upgrading as when a new Linux distro comes out, CDROM.COM is having lots of fun trying to set more records, especially if the mirrors haven't picked it up. I haven't looked yet, and i'm not going to because i'll be rebuilding my FreeBSD box on better hardware in about a week. I'll wait till then.


"Binaries may die but source code lives forever"
-- Unknown

SkyHawk
Andrew Fremantle

Re:Odd.. no email yet

[dadams]

probably, seeing as how only ftp.ru.freebsd.org is reporting a full 3.3 mirror.

Re:Odd.. no email yet

[cookd]

I got my announcement...

This is most likely off-topic

[bolx]

As a Euro-troll (they're Scandinavian originaly I think). The post went up at 5am, any sensible person's still asleep. Not me tho' I'm far too drunk to go to bed!

Bear with me while I find a suitable quote...Got it! "There are some people who would whistle 'Yankee Doodle' in a crowded bar in Atlanta. Even these would consider it tactless to mention the word 'billygoat' to a troll." -- Terry Pratchet

FreeBSD hates my video card

[Russ Steffen]

I'm posting this question here because it's likely that a few FreeBSD experts will be reading this story.

But to make a long story short, I'm trying to install FreeBSD on a machine with a diamond monster fusion (Voodoo Banshee based) video card. I'm using FreeBSD 3.2, but I added the XFree 3.3.5 packages. Everything is happy until I exit X, which totally hangs the machine (well, at least the console and networking are dead). Erg.

Re:FreeBSD hates my video card

[NovaX]

hmm.. Sounds like its X's fault to me. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a problem in Linux too. Send this to freebsd-questions (@freebsd.org) and I'm sure you'll have over well handful of people trying to help. Just remember to put as much info as you know

Re:FreeBSD hates my video card

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a similar problem with my Creative Voodoo
Banshee. When you exit X, it tries to switch
back to the standard text mode resolution (80x25)
and fails (which is most definitely the card's
fault).

To fix this, you have to use a different text mode
resolution for your consoles. 80x30 worked fine
for me. To make all your consoles use 80x30
instead of the standard 80x25, add the following
line to your /etc/rc.conf:

allscreens_flags="80x30"

Hope this helps,

frankrj @ netscape.net

Re:FreeBSD hates my video card

[Russ Steffen]

Actually, it is just FreeBSD that's having the problem. The machine in question hosts Win95, BeOS, Linux and FreeBSD. XFree 3.3.5 under linux is okay.

Re:FreeBSD hates my video card

[Anonymous Coward]

weird. seemed fine to me. I installed on a p2 400 with 128 megs of ram and a diamond banshee and I'm in windowmaker right now.

Re:Suggestion.

[guacamole]

If you need a decent operating system for any use then you shouldn't be using Unix or any variant of unix.

Obviously a troll, just ingnore him.

Mail bandwidth

[Bill Currie]

I ordered two cds from cheapbytes yesterday and I'm expecting them sometime in the next 10 days (I'm in New Zealand). I just did the calulations, and assuming 640MB per cd and 10 day delivery, that gives me just under 12.5Kbps. Not particularly fast, but it beats tying up my one phoneline for 2 odd days (and I imagine my isp would get miffed at 1.3+G of traffic). That's only two cds. Can you imagine a plane load of them?

Re:Mail bandwidth

[thundrcast]

I've done the install over a 28.8 phoneline several times. Usually it takes around 4-5hours. Not to bad. Just start it around midnight and go to bed. In the morning it is done.

the above got score 3?

[Anonymous Coward]

*ahem* he posted two very useful links. So why score 0?

Re:the above got score 3?

[Progman]

'cause it's an anonymous post that hasn't been moderated. Anonymous posts start at 0, others start at 1

Yes, it is!

[BSD_Beck]

So I kissed him upside the cranium with that aluminum baseball bat ... My name is Mud!

Uhhh ... Chris?


Bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh, bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh!

Re:Yes, it is!

[Anonymous Coward]

My, this is off topic! umm BSD seems cool, I plan to try it sometime. yup...

UDMA Support for Aladdin IV?? Anybody?

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to use UDMA with this baby. It's not supported in Linux. I'm not a religious man, so I can switch...Really! :) I've done some digging and have found little on the support of this chipset under BSD. I'm looking for full UDMA, not plain DMA and where it works in both reads *and* writes. Udma writes aren't working with linux with this board..benchmarks would be nice too...thanks :)

Re:UDMA Support for Aladdin IV?? Anybody?

[maarten_delft]

Why is it that you want Ultra-DMA but not plain DMA? According to what I know the two are exactly the same thing except for the maximum sustained data transfer rate.

The fastest Ultra DMA drive on the planet (I think that is an IBM 7200 rpm) cannot sustain more than 16.6 MB/s.

You can see that for yourself if you issue the following benchmark:

date; dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/null bs=1024 count=100000; date

So there really is no point to switch to BSD because of DMA support. In fact you can apply RAID patches to the Linux kernel which will allow extremely fast software RAID-0.

• If you're about to argue about the hardware cached reads: that is really not an issue since the drive will cache only around 512 kB while the kernel caches around 100 times as much, provided you have some RAM left over.
  
  
• Unlike SCSI, adding more ATA drives to a controller does not increase the traffic on the controller because the drives cannot use the bus at the same time. There is no need to increase the MB/s.

Re:UDMA Support for Aladdin IV?? Anybody?

[Anonymous Coward]

Slightly off-topic, my apologies...
I was under the impression that UDMA (33Mb/s or whatever) was for short bursts only, and thus unsustainable. Thus reverts back to the standard speed for sustained transfers 'cos of the inherent limitations.

Re:UDMA Support for Aladdin IV?? Anybody?

[Anonymous Coward]

The fastest Ultra DMA drive on the planet (I think that is an IBM 7200 rpm) cannot sustain more than 16.6 MB/s. I get sustained 12.6 MB/S udma with my new maxtor 10 gig. Plain DMA yields around 6. Tested with hdparm -t and is *not* a cached result. So does it support UDMA?

Re:UDMA Support for Aladdin IV?? Anybody?

[Anonymous Coward]

In fact you can apply RAID patches to the Linux kernel which will allow extremely fast software RAID-0.

Why apply patches??? FreeBSD supports RAID-0,1,5 right out of the box. man ccd and man vinum

Re:Suggestion.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't sugar coat. Tell us how you really feel!

Mascots

[Bill Currie]

Althoug I prefer Linux, I've always liked the FreeBSD devil. Tux is fine and I find him soothing to look at (and my kids seem to love penguins from some strange reason...I just don't know why:), but I find the little devil in sneakers very adorable. Hopefully the two will become good friends:)

Re:Suggestion.

[Bill Currie]

Are you being sarcastic or antangonistic?

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

That guys funny.

Re:Will FreeBSD 3.3 get me a girlfriend at college

[IntlHarvester]

That sort of association has probably ruined you sexually for life.

tsk, tsk.

[ChadN]

A pathetic attempt... Next time, try live, fresh flamebait, or leave it to the masters.

Will Freebsd work well on my Toshiba laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello,
does freebsd have good apm support? I have been using linux for a couple years but lately i have become interested in trying freebsd. I recently purchased a toshiba satellite, which happens to need vesa framebuffer support to allow for a fullscreen console. Does freebsd have vesa frame buffer support? I have searched for this information but i cant find vesafb mentioned anywhere in any freebsd documentation.

Re:Will Freebsd work well on my Toshiba laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope FreeBSD has no frame buffer support that I am aware of.

Re:Will Freebsd work well on my Toshiba laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

The standard FreeBSD's APM support has done nicely on my Thinkpad. If you're looking for information on FreeBSD laptop support, you should take a look here. They have this collection of users' reports of how FreeBSD works with various laptops; There are several reports it working on a satellite, and all seemed rather positive (although it's a little hard to decipher...)

Re:Will Freebsd work well on my Toshiba laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends what sort of framebuffer you are
referring to. The syscons console driver *does*
have VESA video mode support, but to use VESA
video modes, the VESA BIOS support must be linked
to the kernel ("options VESA") or loaded as a KLD
module (/modules/vesa.ko).

"man vidcontrol" and "man vga" are your friends.

frankrj @ netscape.net

Re:Will Freebsd work well on my Toshiba laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used my Tecra730XCDT running FreeBSD for two years now. I haven't had a single problem. I dunno about the other tosh models though, but I'm sure it should work. I believe tosh laptops are perfect for running FreeBSD.

And just how old are you ?

[AftanGustur]

Today's chicks go for penguins. What do you think caused that Mona-Lisa-Style smile ?
--
Why pay for drugs when you can get Linux for free ?

Coexisting with other systems (Confusing Install?)

[mahone]

The only portion of the install that particularly "phased" me was the scheme for establishing disk "slices." This results since the BSDs did not start with an attempt at interoperability with the MS-DOS partitioning scheme.

I feel that the system of splitting one partition table partition into several BSD-partitions actually enhances the chances of co-existence with other systems. The reason? You've only got four entries in the partition table. My favoured partitioning scheme would use three of three of them for file systems and one for swap. Yes, they _could_ go in an extended partition, but, in a sense, that's exactly what happens. It just isn't a Microsoft-style extended partition, which seems fair.

I very much enjoy the fact that my FreeBSD installation will never use more than one partition table entry, and find the system much more easy to use than the Linux way, once you've realised what's actually going on.

This isn't Linux-related so why is it posted here?

[Anonymous Coward]

(Just expressing what seems to be the growing view amongst slashdot posters, after all...)

Re:Tux and Beastie

[Anonymous Coward]

Minor nitpick: It's not 'Beastie', it's 'Chuck'. - Have_Blue, too lazy to find my password & login

I'll tell you why....

[Jonathan Hamilton]

I'll tell you why your sould buy drugs even though linux is free. The console looks a hell of alot better when your on LSD, I can't even describe enlightenment! Besides drugs are pretty cheap these days. Cocaine might be expensive but any one that does that stuff it crazy in my book. I really don't like to have holes in my nose, I like it the way it is.

I didn't know what cause Mona-Lisa-Style smile. But now I know. I will probably learn even less, and also less important things at school today.

Re:I'll tell you why....

[Progman]

I really don't like to have holes in my nose, I like it the way it is.

Ah, most people have holes in their nose "built-in", that's why they can do coke. What nose distro are you using?

Re:I'll tell you why....

[Anonymous Coward]

dumbass, extended use of cocaine destroys the septum in your nose. wtf did you go to high school?

UK CD availability

[yorkie]

I've always wanted to try a *BSD, and now that I've blown away my Lose95 partition, I am able to do so.

Is there any easy way to get hold of a CD in the UK? The local company that used to stock various CDs of this nature a few years ago seems to no longer bother to stock anything actually useful.

Re:UK CD availability

[Hulver]

The Linux Emporium has got stock of 3.2, although I don't think it is a big mover.

Re:UK CD availability

[Mithy]

I've generally found that these guys are fairly good. They're based in the north of England, and do next-day delivery for a good price. You might have to wait a while before they get the CDs though - they often ship them some time after Walnut Creek, so 3.3 might not be available until November.

(Okay Rob, you got free advertising, where are my discounted CDs? *grin*)

--
This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along.

from the RELNOTES

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux binary compatibility has undergone significant bug fixes and improvements.

W0W! Now, does that mean that FBSD runs Linux binaries even more faster/better that native Linux, just as it ran Linux binaries faster/better even before? (As often stated by FBSD zealots)

Re:from the RELNOTES

[bugg]

Yes, it actually does.

More seriously, the changes are not significant.

I've never had a problem running linux binaries with 3.2-S

we've gone from 99% to 99.5% :D

THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME

[weloytty]

I have been saving my pennies for a CDROM of FreeBSD 3.2. I finally saved enough, went to freebsdmall and ordered the 3.2 CD (I broke down and bought the Complete FreeBSD too). I did all of this YESTERDAY at 6:00PM (eastern). And then, LESS THAN SIX HOURS LATER, they update it to 3.3.

Just my luck.

Sorry for the rant, you can moderate me down now.

Re:THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME

[JatTDB]

No big deal. Just install from your 3.2 CD, and then start reading up in that wonderful book you got about how to CVSup your FreeBSD source tree. It will update all your sources to the latest versions available (even newer than 3.3-RELEASE if any changes have been committed to the servers). It can take a little while on a slow connection to update everything, but if you leave it running overnight you should be OK.

Once you've got your source updated, just cd /usr/src ; make world and wait for it to finish. Then read in that book again on how to configure and build a fresh kernel, do that, reboot, and whammo! You've got 3.3!

Re:THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME

[Anonymous Coward]

"THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME". Not this time. IF Freebsdmall sends you a 3.2 CDROM, all it takes is one email to orders@cdrom.com stating that you feel you should get the 3.3 version free since you just got bought FreeBSD. You will be given a FREE 3.3 version. Walnut Creak allows you return someone for ANY reason. They really do make good on their word and service.

Re:THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME

[Lazaru5]

CVS is wonderful in that it only downloads the necessary changes. Granted, 3.2 was released in May, but it probably won't take all night.

Re:THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME

[cookd]

I feel for you. I just installed 3.2, and then one of the first email messages I got after the install was a bugfix announcement that indicated that the fixes would be available shortly in 3.3. I screamed. Then I realized that there really wasn't much in 3.3 that I cared about anyway. Then I was happy again. ;)

Re:Will FreeBSD 3.3 get me a girlfriend at college

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

Re:This isn't Linux-related so why is it posted he

[raffe]

It sais news for nerds, stuff that matters. NOT linux news. This matters!

Oh no, not again ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides, if the two mascots got into a fight ...

Ah, Tux would just throw himself at the ground and miss ...

Unusual Bandwidth Estimations...

[Christopher B. Brown]

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.

-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Computer Networks, Second Edition, p. 57

In Cramer's series on TCP/IP, I seem to recall an analysis done of the use of carrier pigeons to carry "information traffic" between an observatory in the mountains and a more normally "connected" site, and it didn't prove out as badly as one might expect. In the days when data-oriented communications infrastructure was a rarity, and cell phones out of "Dick Tracy," there were some creative answers.

I remember hearing the possibly-apocryphal tale that New Zealand's Usenet news feed was, for a time, fed via tapes that were flown in from Australia on a weekly basis.

Long and short is that I would be reluctant to underestimate the ingenuity of those that would do peculiar things with bandwidth in New Zealand...

Slash Mirror still has Lorax and Caldera ISOs

[Slash Mirror]

ftp://lorax@128.253.254.56/lorax-i386 .iso.zip 543MB

ftp://lorax@128.253.254.56/lorax-i386.iso " 615MB

ftp://caldera@128.253.254.56/co l23_full_install.iso" 606MB

SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers

FreeBSD in vmware

[josepha48]

I am currently running FreeBSD in vmware with a 600Meg partition. I have 3.2 and just got it installed last week. args! I wonder if there is really a reason for me to upgrade to 3.3 from 3.2, since I do not use it as my primary system. I am going to use this to learn FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a little different in setup and configuration, than Linux, not that there is anything wrong with that, it is just going to take me time to adjust and get used to the way they do things. So while I do I still want my system to function the way it is now. When I learn FreeBSD I may swithc from Linux to it, or maybe not, I am not sure. Depends if FreeBSD will run vmware to run NT :-).

As I have always said each OS has its plusses and minuses. I just happen to use each OS to reap the benifits of differing systems.

Re:FreeBSD in vmware

[thundrcast]

Upgrade using CVS and learn how easy it is to do a "make world". You'll also get to learn all about the simplicity of recompiling the kernel. I've done it a few times. Works perfectly every time. If you want to learn FreeBSD, this is a most worthly leason. Go read the Handbook on using CVS. Lots of little steps, but it is pretty easy once you get into it.

Re:FreeBSD in vmware

[cookd]

Looking through the release notes, I would say that there really isn't enough changes in 3.3 to justify upgrading unless you have a device that was not supported by 3.2 but is supported by 3.3. That said, I also agree that CVSUP is a valueable thing to learn. So if you decide to upgrade, do it for the learning experience, not for the upgrade itself.

In addition, if you are going to try CVSUP, I would recommend that you wait a few weeks before doing so. Those people who have good reason to install right away (not me!) will appreciate you not taking up the limited bandwidth.

Re:Oh my... here we go again...

[Anonymous Coward]

another clueless kid shows and speaks up, then blah blah... all the same story will go on as we all know already....

Re:This isn't Linux-related so why is it posted he

[Anonymous Coward]

I know. I agree entirely. I was just making the point that a growing number of people round here seem to believe that slashdot is for Linux news only.

Vinum Usable by non expert? Does NFS3 Work w. SGI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Major updates to the Vinum volume manager have been incorporated.
[Though the new RAID-5 features should still be considered
experimental since they are, well, new].

Beat my forhead until it was bloody trying to get vinum to work in 3.2. Problem was not vinum exactly but FREEBSD's archaic handling of partitions, including the editing of raw disklables on disk. Most requests for help in on the newsgroups were replied w. RTFM which I did, including "The Complete FREEBSD" maybe I'm an idiot but it appears that I am not the only person in the world confused by FREEBSD's handling of partitions.

In comparison I had Linux up and running using "MD" and "RAIDTOOLS" stripping together 4 25GB IDE hard drives into a 90GB monster in less than an hour. Used a .5GB partition on each drive for the OS (which was causing my Freebsd partitioning headaches).

Another true story: Using FREEBSD 3.0 I exported a drive using NFS3 and all the defaults. An attempt to mount the remote drive on an Origin 2000 using IRIX 6.4 LOCKED up networking on the machine. No one could get into the beast. Had to go to the serialy attached terminal and KILL all NFS processes, and restart NFS.

There are things I really really like about FreeBSD:

NFS3 support (in theory at least).

Great performance on low end hardware (better than NT, and in my experience better than Linux, we are talking 486's).

A great Server OS. I just love all the little emails it sends out by default. Security reports, diskspace free longin failures etc. Makes managing a dream.

Any Linux's set up to do this out-of-the-box?

I'm afraid that with SGI jumping on the RH bandwagon and (at least in press releases) optimizing NFS for use w. the SGI's there appears to be only one choice for an alternate OS in this most SGI/NT shop......

Not the same userland, similar...

[howardjp]

The BSD userland is the userland that originated with 4.4BSD and before that, Net/2. The userland was aimed at being a clone of the existing Unix userland which could be redistributed freely. In some cases, compatability was sacraficed for a "better way".

The GNU userland aims to be minimally POSIX then everything else possible afterwards. Most of the GNU utilities compile without error under the assored BSDs.

Linux uses the GNU userland primarily and BSD uses the BSD userland primarily. Each one borrows from the other where their own is incomplete.

Toshiba Satellite 4015CDS

[agshekeloh]

Works perfectly here. I do most my work on this laptop, after adding another 128m of RAM. (StarOffice and Netscape used simultaneously with only 32 meg of RAM is *not* pretty, no matter what OS you have. ;)

I've never had a bit of trouble with it, other than finding out where the BIOS configuration screen was.

Re:Tux and Beastie

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, no, the copyright owner of the demon character does *not* like him refered to as Chuck; he prefers "Beastie" if anything. Please respect that.

But people don't like devils

[Anonymous Coward]

As I just said!

Besides, Birds have nasty virus`

Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool! I am downloading NetBSD 1.4.1 as I read this. What a coincidence, eh?

Re:Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

What is really strange is that I was too. I was doing NetBSD/macppc, what about you? :)

Does FreeBSD support extended partitions yet?

[bkosse]

I tried to install FreeBSD the other day to play with it again, but it won't sit in my extended partition. Is that possible yet?

Linux bins on *BSD

[DWRM]

FreeBSD has "Linux EMU" which is actually binary compatability. So most linux bins will run just fine under FreeBSD (I only say most because I have not tried all, but have never seen a problem). I believe that NetBSD and OpenBSD also have emu but I am only 99.9% certain. Also to note, since it's binary compatability and not really "emulation" in the traditional sense (virtual machine, etc) there is no speed detriment noticable. Some things run slightly slower, some things run slightly faster. Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses, so speed differential depends mostly on what the app does. For the most part it's not noticable regardless.

As far as having a Linux personality, most every *BSD user I know that is worth their weight in salt, tries to avoid doing Linux-type things. A lot of linux users (NOTE: not bashing OS, just making observation about users that I've seen and heard about) do things in a very linux way. Lack of regard for orderly (proper as defined by pretty much every other "flavor" of unix) filesystems and directory heirarchies is relatively common. So for that reason, a *BSD with a Linux "personality" would not be desired by most seasoned *BSD users. I myself had the linux "beat out of me" and have been part of "beating the linux out of someone" a number of times. They usually either thank me later (once they get used to *BSD and know their way around) or get frustrated quickly and go back to Linux.

On the subject of wanting a Linux with a *BSD "personality". It makes no difference to me as I doubt I'd go back to Linux even with it. I don't think it would hurt anything, but i doubt many aged linux users would happily switch, for the same reason most aged *BSD users would not switch to a Linux "personality". As far as no linux goes, we like linux. It provides lots of good press for free OSes in general as well as commercial software support.

Anyhow, not trying to bash, just trying to answer your questions/address your comments. So please take it as such.

DWRM

Nope we have jobs.

[Anonymous Coward]

So we have to get some sleep at night. BSD'rs are up watching Don Lapree and Charlaton Cheets infomercials and hitting reload on the slashdot page.

FreeBSD = good; FreeBSD user = bad.

[Inoshiro]

Well, I'm saddened by the blatant troll postings by some of the BSD users. As always, it boils down to, "yay new release. Glad those Linux kiddies aren't awake to flame. They suck. Our daemon would kill that penguin. We rule. Slashdot is only Linux news."

And as always, they're wrong. I like Linux, and I'm curious to try a BSD. I've even contemplated merging some parts of OpenBSD and Slackware. Yet the moment I think that since the OS isn't so bad, the people behind aren't -- they prove me wrong.

"We all know the daemon would kill the penguin."

Sure, just keep flaming away there, buddy. I know you have a chip on your shoulder because the BSD daemon isn't being flashed around, and because there are not BSD word expoes going on. But is it so hard to just contribute something usefull to a discussion of the new release of FreeBSD?

I guess so. And that's sad.

Re:FreeBSD = good; FreeBSD user = bad.

[Brandon Hume]

A troll is a troll, no matter what OS they use.
They'll say anything to stir up trouble, it
doesn't matter what OS they PERSONALLY use.

Just ignore them, like real leeches they'll
shrivel up and die if you don't give them more
blood to suck on.
--
Brandon Hume
hume -> BOFH.Halifax.NS.Ca, http://WWW.BOFH.Halifax.NS.Ca/

Re:FreeBSD = good; FreeBSD user = bad.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the problem is slashdot. No matter what story you see on this site, there are always flameboys posting then reloading 400 times a minute to see who responds to their asshole post. Think about it. Out of 60,000 or so people who read this site a day, there statistically must be some ignorance and arrogance.

FreeBSD and KPPP?

[Anonymous Coward]

This might sound like a dopey question, but you mentioned using FreeBSD + KDE - does KPPP work "out of the box"? I would like to switch to FreeBSD, but need to at least be able to configure a dialup connection, and KPPP is a lot easier than figuring out new scripts and rc's...

Re:FreeBSD and KPPP?

[thundrcast]

I doubt it. KPPP isn't even in the ports collection. Really, the scripting isn't that hard. Follow the instructions in the Handbook, remember to make the device and you should be set. I've done it many many times. There are sample scripts and everything install by default that you just need rename and edit the lines with your username, password, and phone number

Re:FreeBSD and KPPP?

[Black Blade]

I use FreeBSD 2.2.8 so I can't speak for 3.3 but KDE is in the ports collection and KPPP is installed along with KDE. I used to use FreeBSD with icewm and later used Window Maker. I just installed the KDE port a day ago. It took a while to install with my 33.6 modem but the installation using the ports collection was flawless. However, I haven't managed to get KPPP to work yet. It seems to hang when initializing the modem. This is KDE 1.0, though, perhaps there are some bugs that are not present in KDE 1.1 which I am used to using under Linux.
FreeBSD is well worth trying, though. With my 2.2.8 release it's a bit more work to get things running but I enjoy it anyway. I also find the installation pretty easy. I don't know why some people find it difficult. If you want a tricky installation try OpenBSD 2.4.

Regards

How to succeed at bashing without really trying

[JordanH]

I'm not an experienced Linux user. In fact, I have a lot more time invested in BSD derived systems than I do Linux, primarily SunOS 4 and Dec Ultrix. I do know what you mean about the file heirarchies on Linux vs. BSD systems.

That being said, I have to take issue with your post. It's tone and the clear implications you are making.

I really hate it when people are disingenous. It's a form of dishonesty, and it's one of the most difficult to really call someone on because they invariably fall back on a hurt tone saying something like "Oh, there, there, you took it the wrong way. Well, I'm sorry that I stepped on your rather delicate sensitivities".

In your case, you claim to be

...,not trying to bash, just trying to answer your questions/address your comments. So please take it as such.

But then, when you've read what you've said, saying that Linux users have "a lack of regard for orderly filesystems and directory heirarchies" and saying that you've "had the Linux beat out" of you. Now, what is it that is normally beat out of someone? Are you saying, in your not-so-clever way that Linux is equivalent to that thing that normally fills in the sentence "I had the ____ beat out of me."?

I don't mind people having strong opinions. Particularly well founded ones that are backed up by experience. What I have a problem with is someone who uses innuendo and outright insults and then claims to be "not trying to bash".

It's pretty clear to me from what I read here that there are a lot of people in the "Linux community" that want to learn what they can from the *BSD community. Sure, there's the odd, "Linux rulez, BSD dr00lz." post here, but by and large, there people on /. have been very receptive to positive BSD news. I get the strong impression from the *BSD zealots that they feel that they have little or nothing to learn from the Linux Community. You yourself say that "...we like Linux. It provides lots of good press for free OSes in general as well as commercial software support." Is that the best thing you can say about Linux, that it has a good mindshare?

In the future, I would appreciate it if, when you're bashing, do it and say you are. If you're not bashing, try to take care not to say things that are most easily interpreted "the wrong way".

Re:How to succeed at bashing without really trying

[Lazaru5]

But then, when you've read what you've said, saying that Linux users have "a lack of regard for orderly
filesystems and directory heirarchies" and saying that you've "had the Linux beat out" of you. Now, what
is it that is normally beat out of someone? Are you saying, in your not-so-clever way that Linux is
equivalent to that thing that normally fills in the sentence "I had the ____ beat out of me."?

As in, "Beat [habit|quality|secret|etc] out of me."

Must you look for negative comments where there aren't any?

Re:How to succeed at bashing without really trying

[JordanH]

Must you look for negative comments where there aren't any?

Hmmm... Why do I do this?

I dunno. It beats the quality out of me.

Re:How to succeed at bashing without really trying

[thundrcast]

This is stupid... very stupid. There are arrogant people on both sides of the issue and this is very unfortunate. If you look past the /.ers to who really runs FreeBSD, you will see much appreciation for Linux. Jordon Hubbard, our fearless leader, has stated many many times his feelings about Linux. He tells companies to "port first to Linux" before porting to FreeBSD. I think that is the type of respect and togetherness most real FreeBSD users feel towards Linux. I'm sure you can find the quote if you use the newsgroup search on the FreeBSD homepage. It may be even in the Handbook or FAQ. I've seen him, personally not quoted, many times.

FreeBSD Should Watch Out For The Penguins

[Anonymous Coward]

Here come the penguins!!!!

Re:FreeBSD Should Watch Out For The Penguins

[Anonymous Coward]

you're feeling very, very sleepy. You will now send all your hardware to . You will now fear the power of the penguin from this day on.

The 3.X branch has been -STABLE since Jan

[Lazaru5]

It's been -STABLE and "stable" since January this year.

Prior to that, the 2.2.X branch was -STABLE and 3.X was -CURRENT.

The -CURRENT (ie, development) branch is 4.X.

The People behind it aren't.

[Lazaru5]

Well, I'm saddened by the blatant troll postings by some of the BSD users. As always, it boils down to,
"yay new release. Glad those Linux kiddies aren't awake to flame. They suck. Our daemon would kill that
penguin. We rule. Slashdot is only Linux news."

Yes, SOME, of them. Not all of them, and certainly not the people behind it.

And as always, they're wrong. I like Linux, and I'm curious to try a BSD. I've even contemplated merging
some parts of OpenBSD and Slackware. Yet the moment I think that since the OS isn't so bad, the people
behind aren't -- they prove me wrong.

Are they? They weren't serious about "Slashdot is only Linux news." They were repeating what many Linux users have said here in the past. They are an exception. Everything has exceptions. Let it go already.
"
"We all know the daemon would kill the penguin."

Have you no sense of humor? Sure, just keep flaming away there, buddy. How is that flaming? It's damned funny if you ask me. Two stuffed plushies duking it out. Beastie shoots flame (maybe you meant that, who knows) out of his eyes, Tux counters with an ball of ice ala SubZero, etc. Lighten up will ya?

Sure, just keep flaming away there, buddy. I know you have a chip on your shoulder because the BSD
daemon isn't being flashed around, and because there are not BSD word expoes going on.


You just "know" the inner workings of his mind eh? Actually, this sounds more like bragging than an accusation of jealousy.

By the way, don't forget to register for FreeBSDCon '99

But is it so hard
to just contribute something usefull to a discussion of the new release of FreeBSD?

Heh...now THAT'S funnyl.

Re:Does NFS3 Work w. SGI?

[Anonymous Coward]

SGI's NFS implementation has been notorious for not playing nice with other platforms. I wouldn't blame FreeBSD. On the other hand, hanging the server is not really acceptable.

Re:Vinum Usable by non expert? Does NFS3 Work w. S

[Anonymous Coward]

Vinum has gone through much development since FreeBSD 3.2: I've seen Greg making lots of commits to this subsystem in the past month or so. A week or so ago, he merged all of -current's version of vinum into -stable (and therefore 3.3-RELEASE).

Also, the NFS server has undergone improvements since FreeBSD 3.2, esp. in the area of NFSv3. I think that these fixes were also applied to the 3.3 branch.

The Linux software RAID system is poor, compared to FreeBSD's vinum. We have used the software RAID5 capabilities of Linux, and have had a few disk crashes since. Do you have any idea how long it takes to repair a 100+ Gbyte RAID5 array under Linux? You CAN'T use it in degraded mode (at least in a 2.0.37 kernel).

Vinum at least lets you work in degraded mode, and does reconstruction in the background.

BTW- Greg, the vinum developer, is also the author of the "Complete FreeBSD" book.

Also BTW- you can use the "ccd" driver to create striped and mirrored disks. This capability has been around for a while now. Use vinum, however, if possible: vinum is the future, ccd is the past.

Re:Vinum Usable by non expert? Does NFS3 Work w. S

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, i use Linux as a nfs server for dozens of Aix, Irix and Sun workstations, with locking being used. Sgi nfs implementation isn't worse than Sun's own implementation, and Sun created it in the first place. Anyway, this whole FreeBSD 3.3 thing upsets me. Just now that i ordered FreeBSD 3.2 cd's and i'm waiting for them to test it as a nfs server and to see how it works out under heavy load, i get the news there is a new version that may help nfs on it. Talk about lack of luck. ;-) Does anyone know what can i expect of FreeBSD 3.2 in terms of being a NFS server? Or trashing the cd's and ordering version 3.3 is recomended? Regards, Pedro

Use Slash Mirror - Never Slash-Dotted

[Slash Mirror]

ftp://freebsd@128.253.254.56/3.3-insta ll.cd0

SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers

Slash Mirror now has FreeBSD ISO

[Slash Mirror]

ftp://freebsd@128.253.254.56/3.3-insta ll.cd0 (643MB)

SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers

Re:Slash Mirror now has FreeBSD ISO

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, suck away all of Cascadilla's bandwith instead. no anonymous access

Re:Slash Mirror now has FreeBSD ISO

[Anonymous Coward]

that is in reference to security, not acceptable use

Re:3.2-RELEASE? No Problem!

[starslab]

I'm sure you've seen this if you've read over the rest of the thread, but just to be sure it is said, you can easily install your 3.2-RELEASE system, hook it up to any halfway reasonable internet connection ( let a modem run overnight ) and use the CVSup utility to upgrade the source tree on your system to the latest one held on the central FreeBSD CVS system or it's mirrors. Assuming changes have already been made, this will give you system sources that are actually newer than 3.3-RELEASE!. Then build yourself a custom kernel from the new sources, along with a 'make world' and you're set. You've got the shiniest new FreeBSD box on the planet... Consult the relevant sections of the FreeBSD Handbook for details.

"Binaries may die but source code lives forever"
-- Unknown

SkyHawk
Andrew Fremantle

This gets a "Zero" but battling mascots a "3"

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot moderation is on a steady decline. Spending less and less time on /. and heading to other sites (dimensionx.sitehosting.net rocks) Face it. In some cases democracy does not work. Get a clue moderators!

FreeBSD ISOs

[mischief]

I've compiled a list of places you can download the FreeBSD CD images:

http://www.instinct.org/~pgl/freebsd-i sos.html

There are a few sites out there that carry the full set of CDs, and the official distribution site has the first and most important CD image (ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub /FreeBSD/releases/i386/ISO-IMAGES/).

--

Re: "resident asshole" comment, EFNet #FreeBSD.

[pachell]

The primary purpose of EFNet #FreeBSD is to discuss the FreeBSD operating system. Many IRC users join the channel asking very simple questions which can be answered by simply reading man pages or by visiting www.FreeBSD.org. Although we do drift off topic occasionally, this channel should not be relied on for technical support issues. You'll have better luck joining #unixhelp, #freebsdhelp, etc. As far as me being the "resident asshole", sure, it may seem that way at times. However, you must also consider the fact that most users prefer the enviroment to be oriented towards operating system discussion, and not technical support issues. Since there is a low channel operator to user ratio, and I am one of the most active operators in the channel, I may seem like a "resident asshole". I hope response clears up any issues you don't comprehend.