"Maybe you like it when people call you an asshole, but I don't."
I fail to see where I insulted you, as that was a hypothetical, but whatever.
"No, you are wrong because you believe something demonstrably false."
It's a subjective topic, there is no right or wrong answer. Until a large-scale revolution happens, we'll never know for sure.
"Of course, given the little I know about you, you are probably also a believer in the silly concept of "God", which is equivalent."
Actually, I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. I know it blows your mind that not every gun owner in the U.S. is a Christian, but it's true. Sorry to burst your bubble.
And, since it seems you are so quick to judge and completely unwilling to even consider a counter-argument, which is what debate is all about, I'm finished wasting my time with you.
It's really easy to be an asshole on the internet, isn't it? (I'm sure things would be a little different face-to-face.) There's a reason I stopped playing Counter-Strike. 13 year old 1337 h@x0rs like you.
I don't know about where you come from, but where I come from, calling someone stupid, or even just insinuating that they are, especially when it's discussing a subjective topic, is considered offensive. Maybe you like it when people call you an asshole, but I don't.
"if you assert X...which I claim is false, then you asserted a falsehood, which in my eyes is a sign of stupidity."
So, if I disagree with you on a very subjective topic, I'm automatically wrong? That's nice. I can see this debate is going to get somewhere.
"Maybe I should have moderated my statement a bit, and said "you are stupid concerning...""
That's not how civilized debate works. When you disagree with someone, you don't say "you're stupid," you say "I think you're wrong" or "I disagree," then explain why. There's no need for any insults. Why do I need to lecture you on this?
"I specifically argued that guns can't help protect you from an opressive government (in control of a strong military force.)"
Tell that to the insurgents in Iraq. They'd disagree with you quite strongly. They don't need tanks and jets to seriously hurt the strongest military in the world. If enough people revolted against the government here and were willing to fight, the situation would be the same.
You don't seem to understand the kind of hardware that's available on the public market here in the U.S. This argument happened on another/. article not too long ago. http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=214910&thr eshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=17454188#17 454480 Read the responses from Fulcrum and myself. Trust me, we can do serious damage. The jets and tanks are needed to take ground, but you need warm bodies on the ground to maintain control. Our military could never handle that in a country this size, even with all the reserve units activated. As far as your arguments regarding a rogue military commander and such, a revolution, in today's world, would not revolve around the military. There's countless cities, the military can't control all of them. In the midst of this crisis, the police would undoubtedly try to maintain control, and if they went to far, they'd be someone else to fight. They don't have tanks and jets.
"Last, but not least, I don't consider stupidity offensive in itself."
That's not what I was unhappy about. It was that CALLING someone stupid is offensive.
Eye for an eye is human nature. Violence is the last resort, but is undeniably the most effective means of resolving conflict. We wouldn't fight wars if debate was as effective as force. Lastly, if you enjoy being abused by others, then don't fight back. Some people don't like being pushed around. Go on living in your happy, secure little world where nothing bad happens.
But we don't live in a utopia where our rights are never threatened. Listen, you can try and argue all day that the 2nd amendment isn't the most important, but you're never gonna convince me. It's completely subjective. Now, if I start saying the world is flat, I urge you to argue for as long as you can manage it.
I stopped engaging in flame wars a long time ago. It's too frustrating. If people don't want to have a civilized debate, fine. I'll hopefully meet them face-to-face someday.
You're correct, but you're talking about natural rights, not those rights that are outlined in the Bill of Rights. (Though I suppose you can argue ALL rights are natural.) Out of those, the 2nd amendment is the most important, in my opinion, as it is the only way to preserve the rest in the most dire circumstances. The 2nd amendment isn't just about "owning guns," it's about the peoples' declaration that we reserve the right to fight tyranny by any means necessary.
I agree, things are getting really shitty around here. And although I think we need a change, I'm afraid Hillary or Obama may try to limit our most important right; the right to bear arms and defend ourselves against tyranny by force. Although I hope we never have to use it for what it was intended for, it is our last resort, and an important right to preserve.
Even if you took off any Star Trek logos or explicit references to it, that room would still be ugly as shit. And yes, if you got a realtor to appraise the house with and without that ugly room, the value would be less with it. No realtor would sell that house with that room like that. They'd gut it and redo it in a more "marketable" manner.
Also, I'd scoff just as much at someone who made the room look like the interior of the Millennium Falcon, even though I absolutely love Star Wars. It's just stupid.
So, what happens when you get a spam email with a dirty picture sent to you? It's not like you can filter out all spam before you download them from the pop server.
Hit send/receive and you can instantly become a child pornographer. Sweet. The law is on our side.
They allowed gay marriage, which in itself is a very liberal thing to do, then they pull this crap. What a bunch of fags.;)
(I'm not bashing gays, they deserve the same rights as everyone else. But lets not get started on that topic.:P)
I second that. My balance on my paypal account is zero, and it always will be. I just use them for credit card transactions and the occasional bank account instant transfer.
I'm a former Marine infantryman, so let me educate you on some firearms information. The majority of infantry weapons are M16s or their variants. Yes, there are machineguns and all, but M16s account for the majority of the weapons used. I own an AR-15, the civilian version of the M16. Only difference; no three-round burst. Did I ever use three round burst as an infantryman in the Marines? Nope. They told us not to. Why? Waste of ammo. Same reason the M16A1 was replaced with the A2 which had no automatic fire. There are millions of rifles in America. AR-15s and their variants, a myriad of other military weapons without their automatic option, and even just hunting rifles. You know what? They're all good at killing. Don't kid yourself, there are a LOT of extremely lethal weapons in the US. You can buy a Barrett.50 sniper rifle (exact same as the military uses) on the civilian market legally. Ever been shot by a common.308 hunting cartridge? Well trust me, you don't want to. That's one of the oft-used calibers in military weapons the world over. It hurts just as bad from a machine gun as a hunting rifle. Point is, almost all military weapons have a civilian market copy without automatic mode, which in most cases is rarely, if ever, used in the military. (At least not on the assault rifles.) Why? It's hard to control, innacurate and a waste of ammo. Conserving ammo is vital. (Trust me, even just carrying 6 or 8 fully loaded magazines, on top of your other gear, like heavy ballistic plates, is a pain in the ass. You won't see the majority of infantrymen carrying 10 or 15 magazines like you do in video games.)
Also, you can get your hands on automatic weapons, but they're extremely expensive, you need a special license, and they have to have been manufactured before 1986. The government taxes the crap out of the transactions, too.
But this is all moot, because a proper revolution would involve a large portion of the populace, all of which would have at least some sort of decent weapon considering how many there are in the US. Storming and looting a police station would be cake in many cities. Each time that happens, there's more automatic weapons added to the mix, which in the hands of a poorly-trained civilian would at least be good at keeping military fighters' heads down. I won't even get into how easy it would be to attack a military base... Camp Lejeune in NC is wide open if you're willing to walk through some bush.
It's just a question of dedication and willingness to lay yourself on the line. We've done it before, when the odds were so against us, and we can do it again.
Obviously, ads would be out of place in, say, Neverwinter Nights 2. But at least in CS it's a modern game, so they wouldn't be totally out of place. Rainbow Six Vegas has Axe body spray ads. One building you fly over had 3 different billboards on it. But it's easy to ignore them, I almost didn't see them because I was looking around inside the helo. I just happened to look outside to see where we were. Anyways, I just hope the ads in CS aren't intrusive. Like having a Pepsi logo on a soda machine. That's OK. But if they start putting billboards in random places it'll ruin the game.
I'm a gun owner and a member at a private club, and safety is so strongly enforced I am almost afraid that someone will find something I'm doing wrong and report me, thereby potentially getting me kicked out of the club. (A lot of money down the drain, too.) Even I, as a former Marine, had to take the gun safety course to join the club. They don't screw around with that stuff.
Legal gun owners are the last people you should worry about committing a crime.
That's what's ironic. You make some of the greatest death-dealing machines in the world, but you can't use them. Your government seems to be very anti-violence. I wonder why they don't go after the evil gun manufacturers, too.:P
I'll always reserve my right to own guns. There's no way I'm giving that up. It's our last line of defense.
And, although I think most politicians are scumbags who can't be trusted, they are still Americans and still deserve the same rights as the rest of us. It's not fair to watch them all the time, especially not in private situations.
They should, however, get paid less, be held accountable for their actions, not be allowed campaign contributions over $1000 from any one person/organization/company etc etc. Being a public servant should not be a profitable venture, they should be there because they want to be and care about making a difference. Unfortunately, none of them care about that stuff. But that's a wee bit off topic, methinks.
Slashdot Mirror
"BTW, I think you are an asshole too."
"Maybe you like it when people call you an asshole, but I don't."
I fail to see where I insulted you, as that was a hypothetical, but whatever.
"No, you are wrong because you believe something demonstrably false."
It's a subjective topic, there is no right or wrong answer. Until a large-scale revolution happens, we'll never know for sure.
"Of course, given the little I know about you, you are probably also a believer in the silly concept of "God", which is equivalent."
Actually, I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. I know it blows your mind that not every gun owner in the U.S. is a Christian, but it's true. Sorry to burst your bubble.
And, since it seems you are so quick to judge and completely unwilling to even consider a counter-argument, which is what debate is all about, I'm finished wasting my time with you.
It's really easy to be an asshole on the internet, isn't it? (I'm sure things would be a little different face-to-face.) There's a reason I stopped playing Counter-Strike. 13 year old 1337 h@x0rs like you.
I don't know about where you come from, but where I come from, calling someone stupid, or even just insinuating that they are, especially when it's discussing a subjective topic, is considered offensive. Maybe you like it when people call you an asshole, but I don't.
/. article not too long ago. http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=214910&thr eshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=17454188#17 454480 Read the responses from Fulcrum and myself. Trust me, we can do serious damage. The jets and tanks are needed to take ground, but you need warm bodies on the ground to maintain control. Our military could never handle that in a country this size, even with all the reserve units activated. As far as your arguments regarding a rogue military commander and such, a revolution, in today's world, would not revolve around the military. There's countless cities, the military can't control all of them. In the midst of this crisis, the police would undoubtedly try to maintain control, and if they went to far, they'd be someone else to fight. They don't have tanks and jets.
"if you assert X...which I claim is false, then you asserted a falsehood, which in my eyes is a sign of stupidity."
So, if I disagree with you on a very subjective topic, I'm automatically wrong? That's nice. I can see this debate is going to get somewhere.
"Maybe I should have moderated my statement a bit, and said "you are stupid concerning...""
That's not how civilized debate works. When you disagree with someone, you don't say "you're stupid," you say "I think you're wrong" or "I disagree," then explain why. There's no need for any insults. Why do I need to lecture you on this?
"I specifically argued that guns can't help protect you from an opressive government (in control of a strong military force.)"
Tell that to the insurgents in Iraq. They'd disagree with you quite strongly. They don't need tanks and jets to seriously hurt the strongest military in the world. If enough people revolted against the government here and were willing to fight, the situation would be the same.
You don't seem to understand the kind of hardware that's available on the public market here in the U.S. This argument happened on another
"Last, but not least, I don't consider stupidity offensive in itself."
That's not what I was unhappy about. It was that CALLING someone stupid is offensive.
Eye for an eye is human nature. Violence is the last resort, but is undeniably the most effective means of resolving conflict. We wouldn't fight wars if debate was as effective as force. Lastly, if you enjoy being abused by others, then don't fight back. Some people don't like being pushed around. Go on living in your happy, secure little world where nothing bad happens.
But we don't live in a utopia where our rights are never threatened. Listen, you can try and argue all day that the 2nd amendment isn't the most important, but you're never gonna convince me. It's completely subjective. Now, if I start saying the world is flat, I urge you to argue for as long as you can manage it.
I stopped engaging in flame wars a long time ago. It's too frustrating. If people don't want to have a civilized debate, fine. I'll hopefully meet them face-to-face someday.
Very clever. The point was it didn't justify a counter-argument. It would be a waste of time if he starts with an insult.
You're correct, but you're talking about natural rights, not those rights that are outlined in the Bill of Rights. (Though I suppose you can argue ALL rights are natural.) Out of those, the 2nd amendment is the most important, in my opinion, as it is the only way to preserve the rest in the most dire circumstances. The 2nd amendment isn't just about "owning guns," it's about the peoples' declaration that we reserve the right to fight tyranny by any means necessary.
Ad hominem. Your reply doesn't deserve a response.
I agree, things are getting really shitty around here. And although I think we need a change, I'm afraid Hillary or Obama may try to limit our most important right; the right to bear arms and defend ourselves against tyranny by force. Although I hope we never have to use it for what it was intended for, it is our last resort, and an important right to preserve.
You must not be a life member then. That'll cost you only $750. (No shit.)
Even if you took off any Star Trek logos or explicit references to it, that room would still be ugly as shit. And yes, if you got a realtor to appraise the house with and without that ugly room, the value would be less with it. No realtor would sell that house with that room like that. They'd gut it and redo it in a more "marketable" manner.
Also, I'd scoff just as much at someone who made the room look like the interior of the Millennium Falcon, even though I absolutely love Star Wars. It's just stupid.
So, what happens when you get a spam email with a dirty picture sent to you? It's not like you can filter out all spam before you download them from the pop server.
Hit send/receive and you can instantly become a child pornographer. Sweet. The law is on our side.
That's a great analogy.
/sarcasm
I'm really glad there aren't more people like you working for the government.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
A straight up copy of StarCraft/Brood War with better graphics is all I really need, but I'll take new content or a little innovation gladly.
They allowed gay marriage, which in itself is a very liberal thing to do, then they pull this crap. What a bunch of fags. ;)
(I'm not bashing gays, they deserve the same rights as everyone else. But lets not get started on that topic. :P)
I second that. My balance on my paypal account is zero, and it always will be. I just use them for credit card transactions and the occasional bank account instant transfer.
I'm a former Marine infantryman, so let me educate you on some firearms information. The majority of infantry weapons are M16s or their variants. Yes, there are machineguns and all, but M16s account for the majority of the weapons used. I own an AR-15, the civilian version of the M16. Only difference; no three-round burst. Did I ever use three round burst as an infantryman in the Marines? Nope. They told us not to. Why? Waste of ammo. Same reason the M16A1 was replaced with the A2 which had no automatic fire. There are millions of rifles in America. AR-15s and their variants, a myriad of other military weapons without their automatic option, and even just hunting rifles. You know what? They're all good at killing. Don't kid yourself, there are a LOT of extremely lethal weapons in the US. You can buy a Barrett .50 sniper rifle (exact same as the military uses) on the civilian market legally. Ever been shot by a common .308 hunting cartridge? Well trust me, you don't want to. That's one of the oft-used calibers in military weapons the world over. It hurts just as bad from a machine gun as a hunting rifle. Point is, almost all military weapons have a civilian market copy without automatic mode, which in most cases is rarely, if ever, used in the military. (At least not on the assault rifles.) Why? It's hard to control, innacurate and a waste of ammo. Conserving ammo is vital. (Trust me, even just carrying 6 or 8 fully loaded magazines, on top of your other gear, like heavy ballistic plates, is a pain in the ass. You won't see the majority of infantrymen carrying 10 or 15 magazines like you do in video games.)
Also, you can get your hands on automatic weapons, but they're extremely expensive, you need a special license, and they have to have been manufactured before 1986. The government taxes the crap out of the transactions, too.
But this is all moot, because a proper revolution would involve a large portion of the populace, all of which would have at least some sort of decent weapon considering how many there are in the US. Storming and looting a police station would be cake in many cities. Each time that happens, there's more automatic weapons added to the mix, which in the hands of a poorly-trained civilian would at least be good at keeping military fighters' heads down. I won't even get into how easy it would be to attack a military base... Camp Lejeune in NC is wide open if you're willing to walk through some bush.
It's just a question of dedication and willingness to lay yourself on the line. We've done it before, when the odds were so against us, and we can do it again.
That is one of my favorite founding father quotes.
Obviously, ads would be out of place in, say, Neverwinter Nights 2. But at least in CS it's a modern game, so they wouldn't be totally out of place. Rainbow Six Vegas has Axe body spray ads. One building you fly over had 3 different billboards on it. But it's easy to ignore them, I almost didn't see them because I was looking around inside the helo. I just happened to look outside to see where we were. Anyways, I just hope the ads in CS aren't intrusive. Like having a Pepsi logo on a soda machine. That's OK. But if they start putting billboards in random places it'll ruin the game.
I agree with every statement in that post. Long live Jeffersonian ideals.
I'm a gun owner and a member at a private club, and safety is so strongly enforced I am almost afraid that someone will find something I'm doing wrong and report me, thereby potentially getting me kicked out of the club. (A lot of money down the drain, too.) Even I, as a former Marine, had to take the gun safety course to join the club. They don't screw around with that stuff. Legal gun owners are the last people you should worry about committing a crime.
That's what's ironic. You make some of the greatest death-dealing machines in the world, but you can't use them. Your government seems to be very anti-violence. I wonder why they don't go after the evil gun manufacturers, too. :P
I'll always reserve my right to own guns. There's no way I'm giving that up. It's our last line of defense. And, although I think most politicians are scumbags who can't be trusted, they are still Americans and still deserve the same rights as the rest of us. It's not fair to watch them all the time, especially not in private situations. They should, however, get paid less, be held accountable for their actions, not be allowed campaign contributions over $1000 from any one person/organization/company etc etc. Being a public servant should not be a profitable venture, they should be there because they want to be and care about making a difference. Unfortunately, none of them care about that stuff. But that's a wee bit off topic, methinks.