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German Minister Seeks Jail Time For FPS Players
GamePolitics has the somewhat unbelievable news that German Minister of the Interior Gunther Beckstein is seeking jail time for violent game developers, publishers, and players. MSNBC has further coverage of the issue, which has pro gamers in Germany quite worried. From the article: "The draft law, a reaction to a school shooting that shook German public opinion last month, will come before the upper house of parliament next year. But it is already sending shockwaves through the 2m-strong German online gaming community. 'We have among the most drastic censorship rules for games,' said Frank Sliwka, head of the Deutsche E-Sport Bund, an umbrella federation for German online gaming teams. 'Now we are being labelled as a breeding ground for unstable, dysfunctional and violent youngsters.'"
Video games were _not_ the cause of WWII.
After all, everyone knows Germany has had absolutely *no* history of violence before video games appeared on the scene.
*ducks*
More clueless people trying to make rules for systems that they have no idea how it works....
First, Didn't the neo-nazi youths have this title all wrapped up before there were violent games?
Kidding aside, this is just another stupid knee jerk reaction to social problems that nobody wants to take the blame for.
When I was a kid, we played with toy guns, king of the hill, kill-the-guy-with-the-ball, and other VIOLENT games...
It wasn't until they banned 'red rover' that this sort of bad finger pointing started to happen...
FerChrisSakes - lets blame everyone and everything but the parents and families of violent kids...
Sheesh
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Can you say publicity stunt? Seriously, gaming in Germany is massive, and nearly every video game is violent in some way. Why don't they ban "tag" while they're at it, a game which encourages *actual* attacking of another human being in the game. I'm not familiar with German law, but I get the feeling this guy isn't elected. Why? Because so many germans play games and would be against it. This would probably be political suicide even in America, a country that seems more inclined to take away people's rights. Now, however, whoever the interior minister works for can point to this (probably) failed bill whenever a school shooting comes up, but then point at someone else whenever the bill is criticised. Some day people are going to realize that the people in school shootings got the plan on *how* to go about doing their crime from a video game *at worst.* The idea *to* do it came from themselves, from deep mental issues probably stemming from their parents or not having enough ways of releasing their anger safely (ever try video games for that?). If they hadn't gotten the plan from a game, they'd get it from a movie, or a book, or even (gasp) come up with their own.
Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
I wanted to post an intelligent phrase here but all I can come up with is de doo doo doo, de da da da...
-- Cheers!
1) Pretty females can have a stimulating effect on sex offenders (known and unknown), so will you ban women from walking in public?
2) Good tasting food can have a stimulating effect on people with eating disorders, so will you ban good tasting food?
How about doing something constructive and helping people recognize problems in their kids, providing free help to families with issues, and promiting good family relationships, instead?
I don't reply to Anonymous posts; if you have something to say to me, identify yourself or I won't reply.
...to have an identity Crysis...
Demented But Determined.
AFAIK, Germany has no codified freedom of speech clause. Certainly there's quite a bit of censorship -- bans on nazi propaganda, for instance.
In Germany, if a bill like this passes, it's probably enforceable. Whereas here in the US, it would be challenged on first amendment grounds.
...is invariably an over-reaction.
Surprised? Nope.
The USA did ban playing cards online.
I just had to laugh at this.
a country that still has (IIRC) compulsory military service putting these laws into place.
just funny. Adding to that the issue of possibly charging children for playing a console game (though they may have to have a tantrum first to qualify, but not like that is rare).
"Minister of the Interior" is equivalent to the American "Secretary of the Interior." It's not a religious position, any more than Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair is the Archbishop of Canterbury.
I used to read Caltizzle. I was a lot cooler than you.
Is a throughly docile democratized (herd mentality) society. No one must be able to imagine or visualize "solving problems" by using violence, by himself. No one must be able to imagine that there even is a problem. I love this State! More soma, please!
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
he (Beckstein) is not the "German Minister of the Interior" but the one of Bavaria (german: Bayern). Bavaria is the most conservative state in germany, ruled for nearly 60 years by the same party. He has been joined in his attempt by the minister of interior of lower saxony.
The core of the prolem is the definition of "killer games". Since nearly all major politicians are 60 or older, they have nearly no understanding of the topic. They believe e.g. that Counterstrike is played with a joystick and the goal of the game to be "killing hostages". Usually, hearing them, i'm torn between laughing and crying.
Regards, Martin
I fired up Wolfenstein 3-D this morning...
and now I see this.
Adolf hitler didn't have violent video games, and he killed 6+ million people. I play these "Violent" games and have killed no one nor have the intention of doing so.
I know this is redundant as all hell, but where the fuck did this school of thought come from that you can blame someone's every action on external stimuli?
"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
I just got Suzuki Superbikes for PS2. In this game, the riders occasionally kick at each other. Since kicking someone on a motorcycle at race speeds could certainally result in injuries as bad as or worse than a bullet wound, am I playing a violent game? What if I try to take out other drivers in GT4? Such legislation would outlaw nearly all simulation games.
Oh, and what if I develop a FPS app in Java? The folks at Sun aided and abetted me. Do they go to jail?
Howabout a flash app that is somehow violent? Do the people that created flash go to jail? --- Wait a minute... Maybe this law is not so bad after all.
Someone throw him in Jail for being an idiot!
By old people.
You can't take the sky from me...
I'd like to see the scientific studies pointing to the causality studies. Oh right, all the studies are only CORRELATIONS! See who's to say that violent people wouldn't prefer violent games ? So blaming the industry is something completely stupid. Also if they plan to ban violent games I suppose they'll ban violent entertainment. So no more horror movies I suppose ? When is the ban on paintball ? I dare the government to define "violent" because most cartoons are full of violent acts. Also, does it mean they'll sue people making firstperson shooters like deerhunter? Come on...
What happened to the law in Greece banning video games as a form of gambling? Gee... Just ignore the ignorant and move on.
is worth a pound of cure. We all know that.
But what is seldom appreciated is how often that a pound of prevention turns out to be worth only an ounce of cure. Or less.
The reason that the "ounce of prevention" strategy works is that it focuses you on simple, reasonable actions that accurately target the concern and produce few side effects. Like putting a lock on your door to prevent burglary. Now you could sit on your front porch and shoot at everybody who comes near your house that you think "looks shifty". There is no doubt a more vigorous preventive measure than locking your doors and widnows, but it isn't more effective.
It really doesn't matter whether something is done before or after the fact, so much that the action be chosen to produce the results desired, and not much if anything else.
And seeing as we've already triggered Godwin's law, I may as well raise the example of the Final Solution as an instance of the pound of prevention phenomonon. If people thought that the Jews where using their control of money to ruin the country, why didn't they simply pass a few banking regulation laws? Then nobody could ruin the country that way, Jew or otherwise. The answer is that the pound of prevention phenomon, like road rage, is driven by highly emotionally charged thinking. The kind that makes you act so stupidly that the only way not to die from embarassment is to do something even stupider.
If you're so concerned with pathologically violent people, why not simply screen for them at various reasonable points? You provide mental health services at school to disturbed kids and training for teachers on how to recognize and deal with them. You screen people who have violent run-ins with other people before they go onto bigger and badder things. You run a public education campaign so people can recognize when their associates and familiy members need help -- maybe a few people will recognize they need help themselves.
Will this get rid of all violence by disturbed people? No. But it will do a hell of a lot more than banning video games.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Gunther Beckstein is seeking jail time for violent game developers, publishers, and players.
Jack? Jack Thompson? Did you finally piss off and leave us alone, only to change your name and harass another country?
Sad, really, seeing these pathetic little old men who don't understand the modern world. At least "tubes" sounds harmless enough, but twits with passion about their delusions really need to step down and limit their ranting to yelling at kids to get off their lawns.
>"Minister of the Interior" is equivalent to the American "Secretary of the Interior." It's not a religious position, any more than Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair is the Archbishop of Canterbury. ... and also a Roman Catholic (being Bavarian).
Those that think the problem was violent video games are looking down the wrong hole and denying their violent cultural heritage.
ssia...
It sure is quiet here.
Flamebait me if you will, but: Where are the cries? Where are the cries of fascism!?
Here is real fascism, all you Bush haters, and you've all but gone silent. You need to stand up for what you believe where it really matters instead of merely in your self-righteous murmurings of posts past.
...is all the media glamor and shock that is the result of school shootings. These kids want to "make a statement". They're so hurt or outcast and they shoot up their school to lash back and to make the world notice, as if to say "It's that bad here." It's essentially an act of terrorism.
I'm pretty sure Islamic extremist groups didn't become violent from video games, but because they felt a need to lash out. The behavior is, plain and simple, unchecked immaturity combined with a little knowledge.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Now maybe German youths can return to playing wholesome, interactive, and physically engaging games like Smear the Queer...
Does this mean that FPS Doug would be made an international criminal???
I got nothin'
Anyone else read "Mein Kampf" (my battle) by the former DDR ruler? That was German too!
Look, if hitler convinced their entire nation it was okay to kill millions... I definitely think video games could have the impact this guy is preaching about *LOL* Along with it.. Pong, scrabble and monopoly should also be banned. I don't get politicians, the few people that have a chance to make an impact on their societal structure, instead focus on things that have virtually none what-so-ever, aside from Al Gore who never got elected. (Watch "An Inconvenient Truth").. If he was, we wouldn't even be in Iraq and the trillions spent on establishing democratic ties in the east (and killing thousands upon thousands) would have been spent on saving our sorry asses from global warming. Anyways, yes stop the terrible video games!!! they are definitely the most horrific thing going on in our society... Aldous huxley was right.. historians will look back and see that our social norms of present day society were the most deluded and insane..
I can partially understand concerns about FPS games, especially when many players themselves misunderstand the purpose of the game. When people think the purpose is to kill your own team mates, destroy your own military's assets and betray your country (anyone who plays Battlefield 2 in particular will understand) - then I guess it figures that questions about what these games are about are raised. Obviously getting a negative score isn't enough to convey the message that your just not getting it ...
He is the Minister of Interior of Bavaria, and Bavaria is just one of 16 states (Bundesland) in germany. That's like calling Arnold Schwarzenegger president of the united states.
And besides that, he isn't even very popular in germany (at least outside bavaria).
To give you a picture of his political position: The conservatives (CDU) are the largest party in germany at the moment, althouth they are only supported by about 35% across germany.
In bavaria, things are a lot different. Bavaria is so conservative, that the more moderate CDU is split into two partys. The party in bavaria is called CSU, so the rest of germany does not link the radical positions of the CSU to the conservatives outside bavaria.
That works incredible well: the CSU dominates bavaria around 60% for decades, with political statements like the above. And Mr. Beckstein is often the one saying the radical statements.
Shall I mention that Mr. Beckstein is a huge fan of the Bush administration whereas most germans are not?
Beckstein is not interior minister of Germany, he is interior Minister of the German state Bavaria.
Why do you allow these people to dictate law to you? Why do you allow these people to have any control over you? We must destroy these people before they do the same to us.
i s-equal bullshit.
These lawmakers that make these law cannot live up to their own bullshit, but yet they can freely break these the laws (Foley). You should demand that a lawmaker be better than his own law. Corrupt leaders should be put to death, their stolen wealth taken from their families.
We are losing a war that most people don't even realize we are fighting- the war of ability and intelligence, over superstition and ignorance. The war of life, as the ultimate expression of a violent universe- seen at every level in our reality model, over feel-good-deny-reality-liberal-pacifist-everyone-
These people are your enemy- they are killing you while you stand by and do nothing. You have the ability to change this in a most effective manner.
In 2008 you must unite- at every level of government you must announce your self as a candidate for the true enlightened people- together- you must announce your willingness to de4stroy this system in one shot.
We must throw out the old and reboot into the new system - we must rid our self of the rookit that is really in control of our country. You must then put to the people a new systemic amendment:
1) a bill can only be a single issue. Pork special interests must not be cloaked.
2) When combined with 1, a lawmaker must state their stance on issues. So, if a bill says "x" and the law maker was voted into power to do "y" they will no longer have an excuse as to why they voted for "y"- at which point they have broken their contract with the people that voted for them and they are then to be removed from office and the lawmakers vote is discarded.
3) simple majorities are to be eliminated in all but the simplest of procedural processes.
4) all votes need to be 3/4 majority to be passed - if half of the people will hate the bill, it will be undone at the next change of power - we need to solve problems and make progress, not flip flop.
If 3/4 of the people can't agree on something then it is a safe bet to say that the bill is unfair, or is a social issue that follows the natural devide of ~50% of the people and is therefore unconstitutional as it is not a function of government to dictate what some should believe or feel.
If we do this, we throw them all out at once, and implement the needed changes in law, we can take back our country and lives.
> through the 2m-strong German online gaming community.
You know how to deal with this, right? Death sentence at the next election. I assure you it works. It finally got Bush and the Republican's attention in the US.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Reactionary politicians are vain, always trying for news headlines and personal power, never solutions to problems or citizen welfare.
...) first, then cleaning up the devastating mess they made. IOW: Finish them and Finish it, because politicians can always be replaced, but family, friends, and good citizens are lost forever to US.
I wish USA politicians and the public would learn that war is never the right thing to do, but it may be necessary, and then should be ended as quickly and definitively as possible by attacking the politicians (dogmatist, religious, corporatist,
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
I'll get the extinguisher!
Staring at a white background [on a computer screen] while you read is like staring at a light bulb — Maddox
Article 5 Freedom of Expression
(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing, and pictures and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.
(2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honor.
(3) Art and scholarship, research, and teaching shall be free. The freedom of teaching shall not release any person from allegiance to the constitution.
English translation of the german constitution
Grundgesetz * 23. Mai 1949 - 30. November 2007 - http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/
The problem is that the current generation of politicians have little or no idea about video games at all. Very few (if at all any) of them would have played when they were kids. It's the typical "Fear of the unknown" scenario. I think that this would end when the video game generation actually begins to take part in the system, which will eventually happen.
Although I don't think that FPS Shooters turn nice kids into killers and have played plenty of FPS myself, I do not like the violence in games.
I'm always wondering why the game industry is spending billions in development, and all they come up with is "go in and kill". I for one would love to play games where it is more like "go in and be smart" or "go in and be quick".
Sports and racing games prove that there is no need for a (simulated) life and death situation to motivate players.
I refuse to believe that games have to involve violence to be accepted by the masses. This looks like a bad feedback between the game industry trying to sell games while not taking any risks on one side and the consumer getting experienced in that type of games on the other side.
If a consumer is experienced in a particular type of game, he more likely buys another game of the same type. So the gaming industry develops the next title of that genre and the stupidity continues.
Another reason why game companies seldom develop a completely new game-concept is that they fear no one is actually willing to invest the training required to have fun with the game.
In the end, a ban of violence in games could lead to much better quality games. But the freedom of choice is more important to me.
He's actually the Interior Minister of the Free State of Bavaria
That's like saying he's the Attorney General of Texas, or something.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
They're banning violent games eh!? Well, I'll show them! Just wait until one of those politicians shows their face in public. I'll put the reticule over their face and just keep clicking until their head explodes! Fear my clicking finger of death!
:/
But, first what's the command to bring up a reticule IRL? Mine's busted, I think. The graphics are decent, but the server must have wicked lag, 'cos I move really slow. Does anyone know the spawn point for ammo packs? I think I need to walk over one first before I can implement my plan. Right now I click and nothing happens.
we used to do it with the good old musket ball and black powder.
Kids these days are so spoiled with Miniguns and rocket launchers.
Since most FPS games involving Germany have our boys killing loads of Jerries, the dude could understandably be pissed. I'm surprised he didn't use the word "terrorist" to describe those dang gamers.
I hope the US never does anything stupid like, say - invade another nation, prompting hundreds of future games where Yanks get their asses kicked.
Oh wait.
I find it a little ironic that German companies produces some of the finest firearms in the world.
It is absolutely beyond any doubt that such killer games desensitise unstable characters and can have a stimulating effect.
You want the single most compelling argument that this guy, and every other politician like him, are talking out of their asses?
Try the U.S. government's own Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics graph for Serious violent crime by perceived age of offender.
Consider that the serious violent crime rate (and murder if you check those numbers too) has dropped pretty much year on year since 1993 - the year Doom, arguably the first "murder simulator," was released.
About the one connection you can draw is the murder rate went up rapidly under Reagan and Bush I, down rapidly under Clinton and is slowly going up again under Bush II. Now whether conservatives cause murders or vice-versa and conservative voting is simply a sign of a homicidal society, I'm not even going to venture a guess. But, compared to the "absolutely beyond any doubt" connection that's falsely drawn by conservative politicians to video games and violent crime, it is curious that there's a vastly stronger and far more demonstrably connection between the politicians themselves and violent crime.
I've been playing a video game all evening. And I still have a desire to violently knock down ten defenseless pins with a large heavy ball. Sometimes even as many as 91. Though I've successfully managed to restrain the urge to destroy video screens with small flying white objects.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Let's just shoot everyone in the world! that will stop them from shooting each other!
That's the tritest, most simplistic analysis of an immensely complex situation I've seen moderated up in ages. Religious factionalism, educational indoctrination, long series of dictatorial rules, poverty coupled with extreme differences between poorest and richest, a history of European and American interference stretching back past Balfour; toss them all, these people just want to be loved. Sure thing pal, at root the only difference between Islam suicide bombers and school shooters is the colour of their trenchcoats. Big world view you got there.
It also doesn't hurt that school beatings are pretty much ignored.
It seems to be pretty much the accepted order in American high schools for the jocks to physically threaten and intimidate the other students. It never seems to make the news until one of the smaller guys gets a weapon and starts shooting.
Life is too short to proofread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVtJRwwSf0s
Guenther Beckstein is _NOT_ the Minister of the Interior of Germany. He is the Minister of the Interior of Bavaria, which is a state of germany. Minister of The Interior of Germany is Wolfgang Schaeuble. (See Wikipedia.de - Innenminister)
You might say "people have been writing violent literature for a long time, so how can this be illegal". Well, what the guy is actually proposing is generalizing a law that applies to violent literature to gaming.
The irony is that the original law was probably a reaction to Germany's violent Nazi past. But the problem with the Nazis was not violence (everybody is capable of violence), it was totalitarianism, group think, and conformism. People seem to forget, but in their political campaigns, the Nazis became popular because they preached "family values", "clean living", and "Christian values", and they then proceeded to implement those by going after everybody who didn't conform: Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, anarchists, socialists, intellectuals, "decadent artists", etc.
In different words, laws like these and people like Beckstein are basically continuing a weakened form of Nazi ideology.
If these are professional gamers, that implies that they game for a living. Who pays them? What service do they pay them for, exactly?
... and then they built the supercollider.
And not because kids want notoriety, but do to this simple formula: a kid is bullied and ostracized until he or she decides that life is simply not worth living anymore, and before they go, they might as well take the fucking assholes with them that are responsible for making them feel that way.
IQ tests, eq tests, general culture test should be conducted before someone can even put candidacy in any electable position.
Read radical news here
Gunther Beckstein is _not_ the German minister of interior. He is the Bavarian minister of interior, which is not quite the same. Just as Arnold Schwarzenegger is not President of the USA.
And, as the article says, this is not suggestion a law, it is meant as a "basis for discussion".
Wolfenstein is evil. Those who don't believe violent video games makes us 4 corners are evil and stupid! Wolfenstein caused this shooting in Germany. Automobile accidents are caused by Destruction Derby(TM). If you fail to see this, you're educated stupid and should be castrated. Hill fires are caused by fire spells in all RPG games. Homicide from PvP in MMORPG's. All digitally generated blood have corners. Even with antialiasing, no corners = infinite corners. Hugo House of Horrors is evil and stupid. Bio-hazard, aka Resident Evil as the name suggests, is evil and stupid. Tony Hawk series causes teenage infinite grinds on youtube resulting in deep hurts. However kick flips are peace.
Duke Nuken Forever is also peace.
The guy is not the German minister of the interior, he is the Bavarian minister of the interior, and he is well known for this stupid publicity stunts. He is always at the forefront of demanding new databases, new surveillance, longer jail time for everything, more police and using the military to do police work. In short: the guy is a nutcase.
He is doing it to make sure people don't notice all the scandals his administration is involved in, for example they just completely botched a police IT spending bill, wasted millions on new software which does not work. And his law and order state had issues with soccer hooligans.
In short: the guy is a joke. Don't take him seriously.
Gamers only need to hold out for about 30 more years. By then every politician will have grown up with "violent" gaming themselves, and stupid things like these will be history. Of course, by then, all politicians will have something new to wrongly accuse of turning people into drooling monsters.
We've heard this kind of demand before. A lot. They're just rechewing the same arguments everytime some kid loses it, just as they keep repeating that our army (the Bundeswehr) needs to be able to operate as a sort of police force in Germany. The problem with things like this is that if they keep repeating their FUD over and over again, people start to believe it. There are already opinion polls that show growing support for this legislative crap. And yes, Beckstein (some call him 'Dreckschwein') may only be the minister of the interior of Bavaria, but when he speaks, the cameras are on him. So, to anyone who thinks this is just gonna blow over, I can only suggest not to take this too lightly. Even if they drop the idea this time, the next time a kid runs amok they will try again, and there will be a good chance they'll eventually succeed with it.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
I thought the US was the center of depravity. Now it's Germany at the lead with violence among children? US parents unite! Get the trophy back to us! Give me a freakin break, another who blames video games. Does anyone here believe that is you buy a kid the CSI game that they can solve a crime too?
As most of you know, there has been a Columbine-like incident at a school in Germany. I'm on work, so I don't have enough time to really illustrate it for you, but here are some points that the German media currently fails to discuss in whole:
- The guy had about half a dozen of homemade bombs. Everybody with eight grade chemistry knowledge can buy the ingredients in drugstores, here.
- He used pretty ancient pistols (don't know the term in English, they are called "Steinschlosspistolen" in German). They are *free* to get by the age of 18. The only thing you need to have a license for is gunpowder.
- The chemicals needed to make gunpowder are extremely easy to get here.
Additionally: This guy slipped through the social net. He was being outcast, not accepted, hated school for a reason. You get the point. This whole debate is cheap, cheap populism to feed the masses in order to not have them realise some hard to accept truths.
And it's ashaming. This country has learned next to nothing. There's something bad going on? Oh, let's just blame a minority. I'm aware this is standard human behaviour, but still it's making me sad. I don't even play FPS by the way.
This is exactly the problem. In schools we are forced to pick a side. And what side do we pick? The side of the useless. The current situation is this. Useless quasi-human children intimidate, use violence and generally have total control in schools. Useful children are terrorised. People act like there can be justice in school, there cant, we have to pick a side. It should be generally acknowledged that smart kids get to do whatever they want in school, the way strong kids do now anyway. At least that way we could foster a culture of supporting the useful.
That is unless someone can come up with a way to make the system fair. But in the mean time, if we aren't going to have a fair system, lets at least have a productive one.
German Minister of the Interior Gunther Becksteinb le) Guenther Beckstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_Beckste in) is only the Minister of Interior in Bavaria, one of 16 States in Germany.
Wrong. The German Minister of the Interior is Wolfgang Schäuble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Sch%C3%A4u
I decided I'm no longer going to waste any time constructing well-reasoned arguments in opposition of people who want to inhibit basic human freedoms. Going forward all I care to say to such people is: Interesting proposal, no thanks, goodbye.
I don't get it, usually Bad German Guy is the evil boss in : (x) violent video games (x) Hollywood movies and now you're telling me that he's also a developper! science-fiction...
Ah, but historically Austria has always been part of Greater Germany.
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
The problem in the US is the Zero Tolerance policy most if not all schools have adopted. This hurts the bullied more than anyone else. Under the Zero Tolerance policy, if you are picked on, shoved, or in any way accosted/assaulted, and you retaliate in self defense, YOU get suspended, and a lot of the time for a much longer period of time.
I got pushed around one day by 3 kids and after a few times of pushing me back and forth to each other, when one pushed me to the next I dropped the kid I got shoved at with a punch to the throat. In ANY other setting, I'd have been found to be defending myself from a group attacking me, but because of the Zero Tolerance policies of the school, the 3 kids got 2 day suspensions and I got a 5 day out of school suspension.
Kids are being educated by the schools that it is not ok to protect yourself, that when someone hurts you in any way, shape, or form, that you are to run immediately to an authority figure and cry your heart out to them so they can take care of you. This is why things that would usually just end with a good old fashioned fist fight after or during school ends with bloodshed at the end of a barrel.
This Beckstein guy sounds like he's as thick as a brick.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
They should not outlaw fps games.
They should ban going postal directly.
It's so simple.
I agree - and this is particularly worrying in that they want to criminalise players. It's one thing to expect publishers to be aware of laws, but even if a player wishes to be law-abiding, how is he to know which games do or don't fall foul of the law? What about a home-made game someone makes and doesn't even publish? Censorship is too weak a word to describe this sort of thing.
This has parallels to a disturbing proposed law in the UK, where the Government plans to apply obscenity laws to possession, in that it will be a criminal offence to merely possess certain kinds of images it considers violent (even if the images are fake/simulated - and the burden of proof will be lower than for current obscenity laws, meaning that it would likely include things which are currently legal for publication).
It also has parallels in the way that polls and so on have been used to suggest that public opinion is greatly in favour of such laws. Really - they may be in favour on tighter regulation on publication, but to suggest prison sentences because someone owns a game or material that other people don't like the look of?
See my sig if you oppose this kind of thing...
Beckstein is actually Minster of the Interior of the State of Bavaria. In American terms: In the State of Bavaria, he is Governor Stoiber's Secretary of Homeland Security.
Beckstein is "well"-known for his "creative" views on security issues. Usually, he's all about fighting immigration, but since the last massacre in a German school (far away from Bavaria) he wants to outlaw Counterstrike & co.
or the Piano Wire
You will never get to heaven with an Ak 47... But A Zu 30 is good for Low Flying Cherubim
The main reason why Austria felt that they could act as aggressively towards Serbia as they did was Germany's promise of unconditional backing for any action they took. Germany also declared war on Russia simply in response to a Russian mobilization, before Russia had entered the fighting. Furthermore, Germany declared war on France and invaded neutral Belgium because France was Russia's ally, even though there was no indication that she would necessarily get involved.
The reason for Germany's aggressiveness towards Russia, France and Belgium was their War Plans, which had been drafted years before. These plans called for an invasion of France though Belgium in six weeks, which is how long they had estimated it would take Russia to mobilize. Rather than adjust their plans to the diplomatic situation, The Germans needlessly expanded the war to fit their plans.
The plan didn't even work. Russia mobilized faster than expected, forcing them to withdraw forces from the Western Front at a critical time. More seriously, due to the Belgians destroying rail lines, they were unable to transfer troops or supplies quickly enough to the left flank, that was suppose to sweep along the coast and strike Paris from behind, forcing them to turn their attack before reaching Paris leading to their defeat at the Battle of The Marne.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
It's all becoming clear to me. I mean, it's so fucking obvious. What do all killers have in common? They all wear pants. If you ban the use of pants, these incidents will stop dead in their tracks. It's pretty easy to see how pants could destabilize someone.
Ban pants, and ban underwear too, just to be safe.
I wish I still had mod points. It's unfortunate that people want to regulate anything they disagree with.
Of course it's your fault - nowhere else do unstable, dysfunctional and violent youngters breed. Nowhere.
It's good to know that idiocy isn't just an epidemic in the US. So proud of my German heritage!
Let's allow these corporations to continue lowering the standard of living in every country, but jail people for playing Urban Terror, which is basically a grown-up version of "Cops and Robbers".
Why is every government so completely filled with utter idiots?!?
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
We had a shooting at school several years ago. At that time ego-shooters were pulled out as cause of the shooting. Nevertheless there were ohter, better explanations. (Problems with the schooling system, no future etc.) Right now we have a second incident but this time the suicide note was published. http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/24/24030/1.html
You are conflating a lot of different issues in order.
Animal fat has negligible trace amounts of trans fat. It's still expensive, and bad for you nonetheless. It is generally considered to be the tastiest.
There are a myriad of plant-based oils and fats that are used in frying/baking. The most cost-effective solutions are partially hydrogenated and contain trans fat. Hydrogenation is used for making solid fats, and making fry oil last longer, and improving shelf-life.
Fast food restaurants generally use trans fat poisoned oil for deep frying. That is done purely to save money. Non hydrogenated vegetable oils break down more rapidly in high temperatures and must be replaced more often(from my own experience, we did not replace our oil less often when switching to hydrogenated oil, due to the oil getting filthy long before it became rancid).
For baking, where solid fats are often desirable, there are alternatives, including animal fat, that are just more expensive. Again, it's the animal fats that some prefer the taste of. Trans fat does not weigh into the issue of taste, only expense.
I don't have any good links for you on restaurants dropping trans fat usage, but I've been in several that advertised having done so.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Every gamer in america can vouch for this: games do NOT CAUSE VIOLENCE. What does cause violence: violent movies shown to underage viewers who aren't mature enough to fully grasp the consequences of what is being shown on the big screen. What also causes violence: brutal dictatorship and invasion of other countries and gassing/burning of 6 million jews. At least I know if I was brought up in this kind of country I'd be killing as many of my classmates as possible, wtf? Video games are for ENJOYMENT. When you shoot someone in the head in real life, you didn't kill them, you didn't hurt them ( maybe their ego ), and anyone with a brain older than 5 years will understand it's just vertices, pixels, and shaders imitating blood and gore, not to mention 1 minutes or less later that person is alive again! People like this guy make me sick, there have been no studies that prove conclusively a trend between playing, OR CREATING for that matter, violent games and violent behaviour. There's a great saying that's been going around.. for a long time, and from time to time we have to remind the sunless vampires in counter-strike of this rule of thumb, "It is just a game, it is not real." The only thing a video game might do is exercise your mind, give you entertainmen, and help you unwind. If you're competitive, however, you might be addicted to headshotting noobs, but that's another story. This guy is a joke. Here's my prediction: He decides to bomb USA because of all of the professional gaming and game development going on in america, not to mention the two gpu giants ATI/NVIDIA ( ati being in canada, but close enough ). This will begin WWIII and once again, germany will be blamed for the world war, forced to pay for it, and, if they're lucky, not completely evaporated from the earth by nuclear warfare.
In other news, the German government is following up the successful wins of it's German soccer teams by agreeing to build a new $300M soccer and sporting stadium. Shortly after Germany's world cup win, celebratory Germans and disappointed Brazilians alike took to the streets to commemorate the end of soccer season, overturning hundreds of cars, lighting fire to 17 city blocks of Berlin, and leaving dozens dead and wounded after a night of intense partying. Asked to comment, German parliament was too drunk to be coherent.
--- I'm going sane in a crazy world.
An ironic message, given that self-defense and retaliation are not only understandable and natural reactions, but are themselves the subject of much in the way of popular fiction... take as examples the exploits of Paul Kersey or Frank Castle. One cannot help but think that the people doing the 'educating' you refer to have forgotten their own experiences and observations of high school.
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
I think that it would more efficient would close the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna or forbid them to reject people who try to learn painting.
Because you know there is valid proof that people rejected from this institute for "unfitness for painting" cause millions of deaths.
More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Early_ad ulthood_in_Vienna_and_Munich
"Use cases are fairy tales..." I. S. 2005
I, and many of my friends agree with the pants ban, 100%. What it has to do with school shootings...well no. It doesn't. Obviously sarcasm, but you've hit on another topic worth mentioning. VIVA LA PANTLESS
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?