Thank you for the good chuckle, NewYorkCountryLawyer. I'm curious: where on the timeline of events does this 2008 disclosure form fall? Is that before or after some of the atrocious monetary awards given out by the courts? In other words, will the RIAA see greater collection in the future, based on more recent court cases setting precedent for amounts to be awarded to the RIAA?
It doesn't matter since the RIAA won't see a red penny from any of those cases -- Jammie Thomas is unemployed and wouldn't be able to pay a 10k settlement let alone 220k or 1.92M. The same applies to Tenenbaum - they might be able to recover a couple of bucks, but he can still choose to go the path of personal bankruptcy.
Kevin Peter Hall, the original actor in the Predator suit in Predator 1 and Predator 2 died that way, AIDS via incompetent blood transfusion after a car crash. He was in Misfits of Science too. Such a loss:(
More importantly, Isaac Asimov died that way as well -- and the doctors cajoled his family into hushing it up for decade (until the doctors were dead as well).
According to Taiwanese industry news site Digitimes these kinds of solutions may soon be superseded. It now appears that some of the major players in laptops are getting together to work on a standardized laptop power supply design. This includes the big branded players ASUS and Acer as well as the OEM manufacturers like Quanta and Compal, which are responsible for a lot of the non-brand name laptops available on the market.
Basically it's just four Taiwanese OEM manufacturers (Yes ASUS is just as much an OEM as a brand name) trying to lessen the cost of manufacture by making the laptop power supply a commodity item. While this would be a good thing for all involved, I wouldn't start rejoicing until Foxconn expresses an interest and of course Dell, Apple, Lenovo, etc.
Yea right, just some OEM manufacturers... LMGIFY:
"Quanta Computer Incorporated (TWSE: 2382) is a Taiwan-based manufacturer of notebook computers and other electronic hardware. It is the largest manufacturer of notebook computers in the world. Its customers include ACER, Alienware, Apple Inc., Cisco, Compaq, Dell, Fujitsu, Gateway, Gericom, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Maxdata, MPC, Sharp Corporation, Siemens AG, Sony, Sun Microsystems, and Toshiba.[...] It is estimated that Quanta had a 33% worldwide market share of notebook computers in 2005."
This is what can happen in the rest of the civilised world if you vote for the third party.
... provided the system rewards third party candidates for receiving votes. Sadly, the US has a hierarchical, winner-take-all system.
So does the UK... So it took about 20-25% of the votes to get less than 10% representation for them -- nonetheless, this shows that third parties are viable even in systems explicitly designed to marginalize them.
I take it someone will start a Pedo Party and claim that sex with minors is part of their political platform.
"I know she's only 13, but this is a matter of political philosophy!"
A German politician (Joerg Tauss) recently tried to use his parlamentary immunity as a defence against CP charges. He couldn't convince his fellow representatives, or the judge for that matter -- so his immunity was stripped by the parliament and he was convicted in court...
CP, like most other felonies, is sufficiently yucky that most politicians wouldn't dare to try to protect one of their ranks against prosecution.
You might have a point to some degree, though I think you might have the point backwards: it should be TWO-way (perpendicular) flows that swamp it, not flows in opposite directions. Flows only in opposing directions never have to mingle in the roundabout and can pass through relatively quickly. Heavy traffic from more than just opposing directions demands substantial mingling and increases travel time through the circle, possibly including less-than-optimal travel arcs (i.e. a full circuit or more). That is no different than stoplight intersections, though. However, those are HUMAN engineering problems, I suspect: poorly educated drivers who are indoctrinated with stoplight intersections might be annoyingly slow to adjust to the new paradigm. In reality there's no reason heavy multi-directional traffic should snarl any worse than it does in a stoplighted intersection; it all hinges on whether drivers handle the situation cooperatively or competitively.
Yes, heavy traffic from all compass directions (N-S and E-W) gridlocks overloaded roundabouts -- but it gridlocks overloaded signalled intersections too. What I was talking about is the situation where there is fairly continuous traffic S to N, and (assuming rhs driving) literally not a single car from E has right-of-way to enter the intersection for minutes or sometimes even hours, no matter how long the queue from E. Traffic lights (or if the situation is rare, traffic cops) can force some "fairness" with alternating traffic every minute in this situation.
... then we wouldn't need to even concern ourselves with auto-adjusting traffic signals. Roundabouts require no energy, no maintenance, and are inherently self-adjusting to traffic flow.
I'm just sayin'.
The drawback: roundabouts don't cope well with unbalanced traffic -- large one-way flows (rush-hour traffic, stadium traffic) will swamp the intersection. Busy roundabouts still need traffic lamps.
The Sun has no veracity.[...] a major national newspaper
One part of this is untrue.
Which one? They both ring true to me (posting from Britain)...
Remember this is the paper with the highest circulation in the UK; also remember that this is the paper that printed "Straight Sex Cannot Give You AIDS - Official" and "Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster".
Like you said at first, they ALSO require pressure. And they're shock-sensitive. Shock, minimal temperature changes, or minimal pressure changes can make them go back into gaseous form.
There is a ton of energy available in this form, throughout the oceans. It's a concern that the instability of these methane structures could actually cause some rapid climate change, if they're disturbed by warming oceans, current changes, etc.
Sounds to me like they'd be vulnerable to a Dr Evil-style ecoterror plot where you threaten to detonate a large conventional explosive under the ice cap, setting off a large area of this stuff in one go and generally causing an ice shelf or two to go BOOM.
Sort of like in The Swarm (well maybe without the alien involvement)...
I hope there are saner explanations out there than that page, because trying to read through it left me with a half-dozen contradictory ideas about what the results of such a system would actually be, and I knew none of them could be right since they were all simply absurd.
The details are more messy than FTPT, but it's pretty simple: You have one vote for your local MP, one vote for the national party. Local MPs still get elected by FTPT, national MPs get in from the party list (so far, the same as your proposition). However, local MPs count for the national list as well, so you end up with exactly proportional representation as well as local MPs.
E.g.: 100 districts, half of them vote 60% Labour, 40% LibDem; half of them vote 60% Tory, 40% LibDem. 100 directly elected local MPs: 50 Labour, 50 Tory. 100 MPs from the national party list: The national result is also 30:30:40 for Labour, Tory, Liberals, but given that Labour and Tory already have more direct seats than 30, they get fewer seats from the list: The seat distribution from the national party lists is 10:10:80, the total seats are distributed 60:60:80. Result: we get both local MPs (even independent ones, if we want!) and full proportional representation.
Take half the seats and make them geographic constituencies directly elected by Single Transferable Vote. Allocate the remaining seats proportionally.
Or even: Take half the seats and make them geographic constituencies directly elected - and allocate the remaining seats so that proportionality is maintained (this is not the same as parent's proposition and is called "mixed member proportional", currently used in Germany and New Zealand).
Wrong. If you order from another EU country the company is required to charge your local VAT. It is mainly luxury and media taxes that can be dodged, but only if they're charged at the engros level or later. For example; I can (and do) avoid paying the Danish media tax on writable discs by ordering from Germany, but I still pay Danish VAT. The evil Swedish goverment insidiously charges the insanely high luxury-tax on snus at production level, so I get to pay that AND Danish VAT, even though I live in Denmark (where the tax on smoke-free tobacco is a more lenient less than 10€/kg). Yes, an opinion irrelevant to TFA snuck in, but there you are.
That is not correct, and hasn't been correct for at least two years. The VAT "one-stop-shop" rules in the EU mean that in a transaction, the seller can choose which country's VAT rates it wants to comply with - which is usually the seller's country. I.e. a German seller charges you only German VAT, and Amazon smartly set itself up in Luxembourg and only adds on 15% Luxembourg VAT even if you order from Germany or Denmark.
It has to work the way you described if you ordered stuff from outside the EU - the US, for instance...
Other nations like England have small taxes that slow down trading, because you have to pay a "token tax" every time you make a trade. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference, but I think it's a good idea. A better idea would be forcing traders to hold their investments for even one month - all of this market volatility nonsense would disappear. Or even just to force holding a short sale for a week. It's a different moment when you're about to dump five hundred thousand in a particular company, when you know you can't decide to sell it in the next moment. It may make it harder for large companies to raise capital, but they don't appear to do anything useful with it anyways.
A few points:
One, (for the pedants,) England is not a nation, it's part of the UK and hasn't been a sovereign entity since 1707. Unlike Scotland, they don't even have a devolved regional parliament to decide on local laws.
Two, the UK "token tax" - officially the Stamp Duty Reserve Tax - only really hits the small guys and longer-term investors, as anybody who actually wants to speculate in size doesn't buy real shares, but so-called "Contracts for Difference", which in simple terms are just bets on share prices and thus do not fall under the SDRT...
Three: It's actually quite beneficial for financial stability if large companies (especially banks) have big amounts of spare equity capital around without doing anything "useful" with it. The shareholders don't like it, and often want to increase leverage to squeeze out more return from a given revenue stream, but it is a great dampener in case something goes pear-shaped (because bad things tend to eat through a lot of capital - and if you don't have any of it lying around, hey presto, chapter 7, here we come...)
Do marketers really think people haven't figured out that 2.99 is three dollars? Are they right?
They do; they are. "No man ever went broke overestimating the ignorance of the American public" or that of any other large group of people, for that matter...
...And that could be because hardware margins are razor thin and the potential profit was not worth the investment...
The iPad's manufacturing cost is 52% of the retail price of the cheapest model (there was a Slashdot story about it, even). For the more expensive prestige models the margin gets even bigger. 100%+ margin on the cost of goods sold is by no means "razor-thin", especially if you are MS and already have the software engineers by hand who can write the software...
Adding a little bit here. 8 billion US dollars is more than a fair price for the company when its current market cap is around 2 billion. If Apple is making a real bid, ARM's board of directors will be taking this offer very seriously as it will greatly benefit its shareholders.
BZZZZT! ARMs current market cap is $5.2bn. (1.311 billion shares at a price of 259p each, times 1.53 to account for the GBP exchange rate.) I know Google Finance says different; Google Finance is wrong. Get a Bloomberg Terminal or use Yahoo instead.
That can't be the reason; synchronizing to DCF77 time by radio is accurate up to the nanosecond and has been since 1973 -- and the receivers literally only cost pennies.
Perhaps the GPS clock works better than a DCF77 clock at high temperatures... like when the gatso is set on fire... See pics:
Also, Conrad's 641138-89 DCF77 module is more like ten pounds, rather than "literally pennies" or whatever. At that price, what the heck, may as well upgrade to the GPS unit, especially if there are later plans to use the location data for something (tagging the ticket? Automatic distance determination to do the V=d/t calculation? Who knows?)
Well, you can get a whole DCF77 alarm clock for 4 Euros (that's with VAT, and with a retail markup), so I'm sure that the receiver is less then a quid...
Though you're probably right - even if a GPS receiver costs 5 or 10 quid more, that's a rounding error in the typical Home Office government contract...
[T]hey need a good way of tracking time. Putting a GPS receiver in to get accurate time signals may be cheaper than adding a very accurate clock.
That can't be the reason; synchronizing to DCF77 time by radio is accurate up to the nanosecond and has been since 1973 -- and the receivers literally only cost pennies.
Bet you're feeling real good about driving that Prius designed to be oh-so-gentle on Mother Gaia, ain'tcha?
Meanwhile, the belch from one unpronounceable volcano wipes out the cumulative effort from all of mankind over the past hundred years to purify the water and soil, and dwarfs all of our species' feeble, amateurish efforts to pollute them in the first place.
Gimme a rainforest, a chainsaw, and a case of Red Bull. It's Payback Time!
Bollocks. You overestimate the volcano. The cancelled planes would have belched out 14 times more CO2 and SO2 than one pesky little volcano. Nature? Feeble, I say, bah!
***A typical US family would have at least 3 of them.***
Not for long I expect. Ignoring "Check Engine" lights and strange noises in a flying vehicle is probably going to have serious consequences. If these things ever hit the consumer market, invest in funeral home stocks.
As soon as they design something that one can fly without a pilot's license, it will come with a car-sized parachute -- since the average soldier isn't much smarter than the average civilian: there's a reason they are called "grunts"...
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Thank you for the good chuckle, NewYorkCountryLawyer. I'm curious: where on the timeline of events does this 2008 disclosure form fall? Is that before or after some of the atrocious monetary awards given out by the courts? In other words, will the RIAA see greater collection in the future, based on more recent court cases setting precedent for amounts to be awarded to the RIAA?
It doesn't matter since the RIAA won't see a red penny from any of those cases -- Jammie Thomas is unemployed and wouldn't be able to pay a 10k settlement let alone 220k or 1.92M. The same applies to Tenenbaum - they might be able to recover a couple of bucks, but he can still choose to go the path of personal bankruptcy.
Kevin Peter Hall, the original actor in the Predator suit in Predator 1 and Predator 2 died that way, AIDS via incompetent blood transfusion after a car crash. He was in Misfits of Science too. Such a loss :(
More importantly, Isaac Asimov died that way as well -- and the doctors cajoled his family into hushing it up for decade (until the doctors were dead as well).
Here's a huge grain of salt:
Basically it's just four Taiwanese OEM manufacturers (Yes ASUS is just as much an OEM as a brand name) trying to lessen the cost of manufacture by making the laptop power supply a commodity item. While this would be a good thing for all involved, I wouldn't start rejoicing until Foxconn expresses an interest and of course Dell, Apple, Lenovo, etc.
Yea right, just some OEM manufacturers... LMGIFY:
"Quanta Computer Incorporated (TWSE: 2382) is a Taiwan-based manufacturer of notebook computers and other electronic hardware. It is the largest manufacturer of notebook computers in the world. Its customers include ACER, Alienware, Apple Inc., Cisco, Compaq, Dell, Fujitsu, Gateway, Gericom, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Maxdata, MPC, Sharp Corporation, Siemens AG, Sony, Sun Microsystems, and Toshiba.[...] It is estimated that Quanta had a 33% worldwide market share of notebook computers in 2005."
This is what can happen in the rest of the civilised world if you vote for the third party.
... provided the system rewards third party candidates for receiving votes. Sadly, the US has a hierarchical, winner-take-all system.
So does the UK... So it took about 20-25% of the votes to get less than 10% representation for them -- nonetheless, this shows that third parties are viable even in systems explicitly designed to marginalize them.
...The only 'Imperial' unit I know worth preserving is the Fahrenheit/Rankine...
The pint? Anyone? Bueller?
So what would you rather have, a pint of beer (even if it is full-sized imperial one), or a liter of it? (Hint: Oktoberfest)
I take it someone will start a Pedo Party and claim that sex with minors is part of their political platform. "I know she's only 13, but this is a matter of political philosophy!"
A German politician (Joerg Tauss) recently tried to use his parlamentary immunity as a defence against CP charges. He couldn't convince his fellow representatives, or the judge for that matter -- so his immunity was stripped by the parliament and he was convicted in court...
CP, like most other felonies, is sufficiently yucky that most politicians wouldn't dare to try to protect one of their ranks against prosecution.
"Variously attributed to Lincoln, Elbert Hubbard, Mark Twain, Benjamin Franklin and Socrates"
It's just a rephrasing of Proverbs 17:28 - all of the above have read that (except maybe Socrates :) ...
You might have a point to some degree, though I think you might have the point backwards: it should be TWO-way (perpendicular) flows that swamp it, not flows in opposite directions. Flows only in opposing directions never have to mingle in the roundabout and can pass through relatively quickly. Heavy traffic from more than just opposing directions demands substantial mingling and increases travel time through the circle, possibly including less-than-optimal travel arcs (i.e. a full circuit or more). That is no different than stoplight intersections, though. However, those are HUMAN engineering problems, I suspect: poorly educated drivers who are indoctrinated with stoplight intersections might be annoyingly slow to adjust to the new paradigm. In reality there's no reason heavy multi-directional traffic should snarl any worse than it does in a stoplighted intersection; it all hinges on whether drivers handle the situation cooperatively or competitively.
Yes, heavy traffic from all compass directions (N-S and E-W) gridlocks overloaded roundabouts -- but it gridlocks overloaded signalled intersections too. What I was talking about is the situation where there is fairly continuous traffic S to N, and (assuming rhs driving) literally not a single car from E has right-of-way to enter the intersection for minutes or sometimes even hours, no matter how long the queue from E. Traffic lights (or if the situation is rare, traffic cops) can force some "fairness" with alternating traffic every minute in this situation.
... then we wouldn't need to even concern ourselves with auto-adjusting traffic signals. Roundabouts require no energy, no maintenance, and are inherently self-adjusting to traffic flow.
I'm just sayin'.
The drawback: roundabouts don't cope well with unbalanced traffic -- large one-way flows (rush-hour traffic, stadium traffic) will swamp the intersection. Busy roundabouts still need traffic lamps.
The Sun has no veracity.[...] a major national newspaper One part of this is untrue.
Which one? They both ring true to me (posting from Britain)...
Remember this is the paper with the highest circulation in the UK; also remember that this is the paper that printed "Straight Sex Cannot Give You AIDS - Official" and "Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster".
"History shows that people will tend to choose convenience over freedom."
Really? What percentage of American people own cars and what percentage rely solely on public transportation?
Really.
Cars = the ultimate in point-to-point transport convenience.
Public transit = freedom from the dependence on middle-eastern theocratic despots for your energy source.
Like you said at first, they ALSO require pressure. And they're shock-sensitive. Shock, minimal temperature changes, or minimal pressure changes can make them go back into gaseous form. There is a ton of energy available in this form, throughout the oceans. It's a concern that the instability of these methane structures could actually cause some rapid climate change, if they're disturbed by warming oceans, current changes, etc.
Sounds to me like they'd be vulnerable to a Dr Evil-style ecoterror plot where you threaten to detonate a large conventional explosive under the ice cap, setting off a large area of this stuff in one go and generally causing an ice shelf or two to go BOOM.
Sort of like in The Swarm (well maybe without the alien involvement)...
I tried Emacs a while ago. While I found it to be a superb operating system, I couldn't find a good text editor for it.
You can open the text editor in Emacs by typing "M-x viper-mode". HTH.
I hope there are saner explanations out there than that page, because trying to read through it left me with a half-dozen contradictory ideas about what the results of such a system would actually be, and I knew none of them could be right since they were all simply absurd.
The details are more messy than FTPT, but it's pretty simple: You have one vote for your local MP, one vote for the national party. Local MPs still get elected by FTPT, national MPs get in from the party list (so far, the same as your proposition). However, local MPs count for the national list as well, so you end up with exactly proportional representation as well as local MPs.
E.g.:
100 districts, half of them vote 60% Labour, 40% LibDem; half of them vote 60% Tory, 40% LibDem.
100 directly elected local MPs: 50 Labour, 50 Tory.
100 MPs from the national party list: The national result is also 30:30:40 for Labour, Tory, Liberals, but given that Labour and Tory already have more direct seats than 30, they get fewer seats from the list: The seat distribution from the national party lists is 10:10:80, the total seats are distributed 60:60:80.
Result: we get both local MPs (even independent ones, if we want!) and full proportional representation.
Take half the seats and make them geographic constituencies directly elected by Single Transferable Vote. Allocate the remaining seats proportionally.
Or even: Take half the seats and make them geographic constituencies directly elected - and allocate the remaining seats so that proportionality is maintained (this is not the same as parent's proposition and is called "mixed member proportional", currently used in Germany and New Zealand).
Wrong. If you order from another EU country the company is required to charge your local VAT. It is mainly luxury and media taxes that can be dodged, but only if they're charged at the engros level or later. For example; I can (and do) avoid paying the Danish media tax on writable discs by ordering from Germany, but I still pay Danish VAT. The evil Swedish goverment insidiously charges the insanely high luxury-tax on snus at production level, so I get to pay that AND Danish VAT, even though I live in Denmark (where the tax on smoke-free tobacco is a more lenient less than 10€/kg). Yes, an opinion irrelevant to TFA snuck in, but there you are.
That is not correct, and hasn't been correct for at least two years. The VAT "one-stop-shop" rules in the EU mean that in a transaction, the seller can choose which country's VAT rates it wants to comply with - which is usually the seller's country. I.e. a German seller charges you only German VAT, and Amazon smartly set itself up in Luxembourg and only adds on 15% Luxembourg VAT even if you order from Germany or Denmark.
It has to work the way you described if you ordered stuff from outside the EU - the US, for instance...
Other nations like England have small taxes that slow down trading, because you have to pay a "token tax" every time you make a trade. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference, but I think it's a good idea. A better idea would be forcing traders to hold their investments for even one month - all of this market volatility nonsense would disappear. Or even just to force holding a short sale for a week. It's a different moment when you're about to dump five hundred thousand in a particular company, when you know you can't decide to sell it in the next moment. It may make it harder for large companies to raise capital, but they don't appear to do anything useful with it anyways.
A few points:
One, (for the pedants,) England is not a nation, it's part of the UK and hasn't been a sovereign entity since 1707. Unlike Scotland, they don't even have a devolved regional parliament to decide on local laws.
Two, the UK "token tax" - officially the Stamp Duty Reserve Tax - only really hits the small guys and longer-term investors, as anybody who actually wants to speculate in size doesn't buy real shares, but so-called "Contracts for Difference", which in simple terms are just bets on share prices and thus do not fall under the SDRT...
Three: It's actually quite beneficial for financial stability if large companies (especially banks) have big amounts of spare equity capital around without doing anything "useful" with it. The shareholders don't like it, and often want to increase leverage to squeeze out more return from a given revenue stream, but it is a great dampener in case something goes pear-shaped (because bad things tend to eat through a lot of capital - and if you don't have any of it lying around, hey presto, chapter 7, here we come...)
Do marketers really think people haven't figured out that 2.99 is three dollars? Are they right?
They do; they are. "No man ever went broke overestimating the ignorance of the American public" or that of any other large group of people, for that matter...
...And that could be because hardware margins are razor thin and the potential profit was not worth the investment...
The iPad's manufacturing cost is 52% of the retail price of the cheapest model (there was a Slashdot story about it, even). For the more expensive prestige models the margin gets even bigger. 100%+ margin on the cost of goods sold is by no means "razor-thin", especially if you are MS and already have the software engineers by hand who can write the software...
Adding a little bit here. 8 billion US dollars is more than a fair price for the company when its current market cap is around 2 billion. If Apple is making a real bid, ARM's board of directors will be taking this offer very seriously as it will greatly benefit its shareholders.
BZZZZT! ARMs current market cap is $5.2bn. (1.311 billion shares at a price of 259p each, times 1.53 to account for the GBP exchange rate.) I know Google Finance says different; Google Finance is wrong. Get a Bloomberg Terminal or use Yahoo instead.
That can't be the reason; synchronizing to DCF77 time by radio is accurate up to the nanosecond and has been since 1973 -- and the receivers literally only cost pennies.
Perhaps the GPS clock works better than a DCF77 clock at high temperatures... like when the gatso is set on fire... See pics:
http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm
Also, Conrad's 641138-89 DCF77 module is more like ten pounds, rather than "literally pennies" or whatever. At that price, what the heck, may as well upgrade to the GPS unit, especially if there are later plans to use the location data for something (tagging the ticket? Automatic distance determination to do the V=d/t calculation? Who knows?)
Well, you can get a whole DCF77 alarm clock for 4 Euros (that's with VAT, and with a retail markup), so I'm sure that the receiver is less then a quid...
Though you're probably right - even if a GPS receiver costs 5 or 10 quid more, that's a rounding error in the typical Home Office government contract...
[T]hey need a good way of tracking time. Putting a GPS receiver in to get accurate time signals may be cheaper than adding a very accurate clock.
That can't be the reason; synchronizing to DCF77 time by radio is accurate up to the nanosecond and has been since 1973 -- and the receivers literally only cost pennies.
How 'bout you?
Bet you're feeling real good about driving that Prius designed to be oh-so-gentle on Mother Gaia, ain'tcha?
Meanwhile, the belch from one unpronounceable volcano wipes out the cumulative effort from all of mankind over the past hundred years to purify the water and soil, and dwarfs all of our species' feeble, amateurish efforts to pollute them in the first place.
Gimme a rainforest, a chainsaw, and a case of Red Bull. It's Payback Time!
Bollocks. You overestimate the volcano. The cancelled planes would have belched out 14 times more CO2 and SO2 than one pesky little volcano. Nature? Feeble, I say, bah!
***A typical US family would have at least 3 of them.***
Not for long I expect. Ignoring "Check Engine" lights and strange noises in a flying vehicle is probably going to have serious consequences. If these things ever hit the consumer market, invest in funeral home stocks.
As soon as they design something that one can fly without a pilot's license, it will come with a car-sized parachute -- since the average soldier isn't much smarter than the average civilian: there's a reason they are called "grunts"...
Wow. That was the most gentile Godwin-ing of a discussion I've ever seen. :)
Interesting choice of words. ;-)