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Working Toward a Universal Power Brick For Laptops
An anonymous reader links to PC Authority with some hopeful news about untangling a persistent annoyance for laptop users — namely, the myriad power supplies called for by laptop makers: "'On a PC, an ATX power supply for example will screw into certain mounting holes, have a maximum size and shape, and will take a standard 3-pin "kettle cord" for incoming power. If it complies with these standards, the PSU will be able to bolt into any manufacturer's ATX case.' Laptop design, on the other hand, involves cramming a PC into a tiny chassis, which usually has its own thermal design and power distribution requirements. This has led to the somewhat bizarre situation where every manufacturer has its own laptop power supply design. It now appears that some of the major players in laptops are getting together to work on a standardized laptop power supply design. Not only are big players involved, but the IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) has created a team to work on the power supply standard."
Its about fracking time.
Hey industry (Sony I am looking at you) repeat after me:
Open standards help EVERYBODY!
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
I want laptop internals to be standardized, which would help upgrades be much more bearable (and, in some cases, make them possible).
Living With a Nerd
It would be nice if they all standardized on a magsafe interface. Although I doubt it would happen, too expensive.
Regardless, this is great news. It would be very nice to have just 1 power brick for multiple devices.
I hate that I always have to buy a new power brick if one breaks even though I have dozens of the things from other laptops.
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At work we have a fleet of assorted laptops, and regularly have to go on a scrounge to find a power brick for someone who is visiting from another location who either left their brick at the other office/hotel/home/car and is running low on power
Or someone is issued a new laptop, and it only comes with one brick (which is semi-permanently tied to the docking station) and they need another for portable use. Why can't we use the one from their old laptop?
Even if it's the same manufacturer, the voltage or connector don't match. WTF?
If we need a second power brick, we don't reward the OEM with extra money. It's 3rd party for that (and usually cheaper too)
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
Let's hope they come up with a connector that is robust yet small, tugs out under pressure, doesn't limit the minimum height of the laptop, and so on.
I doubt Apple will sign up, their connector already does all of the above. Now this Dell one here which meets none of them on the other hand is a good candidate for such a scheme.
Also - kill off the large bulky power supplies, and give us smaller, more convenient supplies. Oh, look, Apple are already doing that too.
I think the power supply on my netbook is nearly as big as the netbook itself. WHY OH WHY!!!
One knob to set the voltage, probably between 15V and 20V. Maybe we hide the knob so it doesn't get adjusted accidentally. n amps of current max. 2.5mm or bigger jack size. There, specs all done. Build 100M of them and cut me my cheque.
If every PC laptop uses the same plug, I would jump for joy. If it was an Apple style "magsafe" style connector I would get down on my knees and fellate each and every member of the standards committee. I've been griping for years now how the connector conspiracy is still going strong in the laptop space and what a pain it is to keep matching power cords to laptops.
Also, a standardized connector would let third parties come in and start making accessories and replacement bricks for a lot less than the highway robbery prices that the brand names charge.
Also, while they're at it, why not spec out a standarized battery compartment? Not everybody has to use it, but if all "regular size" laptops did, that would be a huge win. A standardized modular bay connector would be nice too. Not to mention a standardized docking adapter. It's like laptop manufacturers stopped caring about standardization after PCMCIA/PC-Card/Expresscard and have been more than willing to custom engineer everything every time. It's really annoying and the standardization efforts are long long overdue.
I read the internet for the articles.
Good luck getting Apple to play along. While I prefer their design, I doubt they'd even license out the spec to other manufacturers.
"a standard 3-pin "kettle cord" for incoming power."
Not for my Apple MacBook.
I understand the desire for a standard brick, but I do not want to give the magnetic connector on my MacBook.
Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
Then we can just connect straight to car batteries.
Easy peasy charging in the car.
12V sealed lead acid motorcycle battery in your pocket for when the li-ion is failing after a year.
The broken-screen laptops we use as headless servers could have UPS for cheapness using old car batteries.
It would be awesome!
PleasePleasePlease!
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
If you're making a standard, why not settle on a voltage level and stick with it? Adding a knob is just asking for people to set it wrong and fry their laptop. If you absolutely must have multiple voltages for some reason, then design the brick such that it automatically chooses the correct one. Plus a knob is a moving part, and will break.
I read the internet for the articles.
Those already exist, but you've completely missed the point. That's not a standard, that's one that can adjust to many standards. And if you handed one of those to someone and told them it was a standard laptop power supply that would work with any laptop, they'd probably do some pretty serious damage unless it happened to be set on the necessary settings for their current laptop.
Smelling another lawsuit opportunity?
Really, I had (and continue having) to struggle with the mobile charger situation for years...
lately, I finally consider buying myself a netbook and now this!
Good to see lobbying going in proper directions.
'When the Going gets Weird, the Weird turn Pro.' - Hunter S. Thompson
Laptop makers have NO REASON to standardize.
The ideal consumer product is shitcanned at point of purchase by a delighted customer (toilet paper comes to mind).
Desktop PC form-factors made maintenance, part sourcing, and upgrading easy, but didn't help kill off old PCs.
Notebook makers OTOH can count on the failure of key components such as batteries to render their products "beyond economical repair". Combine that with low prices and crap build quality, and you have the recipe for repeat sales. (Good to foster performance upgrades, not so good for economy and ease of maintenance.)
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
If every PC laptop uses the same plug, I would jump for joy. If it was an Apple style "magsafe" style connector I would get down on my knees and fellate each and every member of the standards committee. I've been griping for years now how the connector conspiracy is still going strong in the laptop space and what a pain it is to keep matching power cords to laptops.
Ok, no on the blowjob thing; you don't know where those committee members have been.
The "magsafe" connector is better than anyone who hasn't used it realizes. Not only does it "break away" nicely and easily, but it also means you don't have to use any effort to plug the thing in. I just get the connector within an inch or so and the magnet pulls it into place. I've just dangled the cord near my MacBook Pro and it will snap into place by itself.
The strain relief on the Apple connectors sucks - it's basically nonexistent, so they can fail there, but if they fixed that (pretty easy) then it would be perfect.
Also, while they're at it, why not spec out a standarized battery compartment?
Because it's a silly idea. Even cars don't have standardized batteries. Ok, they do, but there are something like 20-30 different standardized car battery types.
Putting moderation advice in your
something that i wish all mobile electronics manufacturers would do is implement a common standard for power (battery recharge) connections ... with about a dozen different cell phones in the house over the years, each new cell phone has its own stupid connector. some of the samsung and LG phones have those wide connectors that are easy to bend/break, and if they fail, it's an expensive replacement. an older kyocera phone plus some older nokia phones have a simple power jack (the typical positive on centre, negative sleeve) ... perhaps mini USB for all mobile devices that run off 5V or less? then adaptors could be exchanged as needed. No need to take a dozen wall warts on a trip just to recharge Nintendo DS, PSP, cell phone, GPS and so forth ... one would suffice for all.
laptop manufactures make stupid power connector types as well. Dell changes theirs on a regular basis. my acer netbook has the simple power jack, that's easily repaired or replaced if it fails. Dell's are non-standard and are expensive to find replacements. doesn't have to be the magnetic kind like Apple has (cool but expensive), just a simple easy to source connector that you can find at radio shack if it gets bent or broken.
if all manufacturers agreed upon a standardized power connector for all mobile electronics, life would be so much simpler.
Don't stop with laptops! I have a box of anonymous, Chinese-made power adapters for a bewildering array of rechargeable devices at my home. None of these power adapters have the name of the manufacturer of the actual device, so they get lost. Standardize down to four or five types and I'll be happy. My laptops have different power bricks even when two of them are made by the same company. It's nuts!
Fuck the power brick, those are easily and cheaply replaced and rarely ware out. Laptop batteries are constantly needed for the machine to function away from a desk, and lose their capacity very quickly. How about a common housing and voltage for those? You could have like 5 standard shapes and sizes, ranging from small to large for different sized laptops. Every dell 15 inch is about the same size, shape, and colour (black) as a toshiba 15 inch, an asus 15 inch etc.
"If you want a vision of the future, Winston, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever." - George Orwell, 1984
The EU has already imposed a standard that manufcturers have to adapt to if they want to sel their Warez in Europe..
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
My laptop requires 11A/20V, try standardising that. It's literally the size of a house brick.
Here's a huge grain of salt:
Basically it's just four Taiwanese OEM manufacturers (Yes ASUS is just as much an OEM as a brand name) trying to lessen the cost of manufacture by making the laptop power supply a commodity item. While this would be a good thing for all involved, I wouldn't start rejoicing until Foxconn expresses an interest and of course Dell, Apple, Lenovo, etc.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Given the broad power requirements for laptops (netbooks to pimped out gaming machines), how could it be standardized? If there were some kind of variable transformer, would it have to manually set when switching systems?
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
fix the problem on pc laptops of the power cord port wearing/loosening/becoming jiggly from the strain of the cord getting hit etc. the apple magnetic thing is a perfect solution to this problem.
Also, a standardized connector would let third parties come in and start making accessories and replacement bricks for a lot less than the highway robbery prices that the brand names charge.
You know, a lot of folks complain about our "throw away" culture. It's cost prohibitive to get something fixed and sometimes it's cheaper to buy new than to fix it - if you get it fixed. And the manufacturers want it that way. They want you to buy new and throw way the old one to boost their sales. It's fucking ridiculous that a laptop battery costs over $100 when they get them for under $10. The cells inside are just off the shelf stuff that they put in their own package to keep them from being interchanged - including Apple.
Screen goes out: that'll be $200 for the screen and $125 minimum for labor plus S&H. After it's fixed, who knows what else will crap out.And it doesn't have to be so expensive. I understand labor and S&H, but the ridiculous markup on parts?
I can buy a new one for less than $400. WTF?
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
Although they could standardize on a laptop connector (size, shape, polarity) and brick connector (the mains), and even voltage, the one thing they won't be able to do is standardize on a size. Laptops/netbooks vary greatly in their power requirements. I, for one, don't want to have to carry around a huge 80+ watt brick, simply because that is the standard and my netbook only needs a tiny 30 watts.
Still, I welcome ANY type of standardization... right now it is really crazy. At least most of the phones (at least smart phones) have finally standardized on micro-USB connectors and standard USB power levels.
It does not have to be the Apple one, but I do hope that its a magnetic connector. Anyone who has tripped on their power cord* will likely hope so too.
*The power cord is really the only cord left and the only one I have tripped on; luckily I have never brought my laptop to the floor.
We do NOT like those stupid replaceable tips. Those things come off and get misplaced. Instead, I would rather see replaceable DC power cords. Even if they are more expensive, I would much prefer to see a solid cord as they tend to be more durable and contain nice features like lights at the end of the cable. (Have you seen the new Dell E series power supplies? The blue light at the end not only looks nicer but gives clear indication that power is likely working at that end of the wire!)
Like most people, I am willing to pay more if the damned thing works well.
Now if all laptop makers were to agree on amps and voltage outputs, I would be a little surprised. There are netbooks and notebooks and depending on the notebook whether the processor is a heavy power load or the machine itself is just huge or whether it will be supporting a port replicator or docking station, these variables present a wide range of situations that require diverse ranges of power supplied. However, if the only variable were amps, then I'd be okay with that just as I would be okay with more expensive replaceable DC power cords.
You mean tout.
No, Ticketmaster are touts.
Considering that the internal components of laptops are largely standardised, its pretty alarming that manufacturers still use all kinds of different connectors and voltages...
On the other hand, the Apple magsafe connectors are pretty neat (and has saved me a few times) and noone else seems to have copied them yet...
Even on desktops you quite often get non standard power supplies on pre-assembled machines, they tend to be the lowest quality units too so you can't just buy a normal ATX replacement once the proprietary one dies.
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One thing that happens to my parents is that the connector gets wiggled so that the plugin disconnects from the motherboard. The motherboard is layered so that it cannot be soldered. Basically, the laptop is toast because the connector won't consistently provide power to the motherboard. It would be SO easy for manufacturers to solder the connector to a tiny inexpensive and easily replacable seperate board and then have internal wires that lead to the motherboard inside, but they rightly figure that the connector won't go until a year or so. This has happened to two laptops of theirs so far ( about once a year ) and they are on their third.
...
Anyway, back on topic, even if they standardize, it wont last long. One brand will see an opportunity to get more $$ and slightly change the plug so only their brand will fit, keeping everything else in the supply the same (think Dell power supplies for desktops). Vendor lock-in is an old practice, and wont go away, even if they say it might.
Tm
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You know.. Cell phone manufacturers were in the exact same camp. Until China decided no Cell phone could be sold in China without a Mini or Micro USB power adapter. Suddenly, darn near every cell phone now has one..
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
I've had a series of thinkpads over the years, and there have been exactly 2 power supply types. Pre-T60, everything worked with the 16V adapter. Everything since the T60 has worked with the 20V adapter. (yes, everyone grumbled when the 20V adapter came out, but you can't roast a turkey with 16V)
I don't get the fetish everyone has with the magsafe. Using laptops exclusively for the last decade I've had the power cord tugged on hard enough to cause a problem exactly 0 times. What are you all doing? draping your power cord across the hallway?
If a standard voltage can't be used, how about a sense pin so the PSU can send 5 volts, 12 volts, or another standard? If the sense pin receives no signal, then send the lowest voltage so it doesn't fry any components.
I agree on the knob. This would bring many incidents of Joe Sixpack thinking it is the volume control for Jane Wine Cooler's laptop, flip it to a higher voltage and fry the machine. The few things that a user has to fiddle with that might cause immediate electric over-voltage death of a device, the better.
A lot of people in the PC repair industry are going to be happy about this. Now they will not have to have a bunch of universal power adapters hanging around.
http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
Agreed, but you forgot one thing. Brand specific accessories are also a great way to increase commitment. It's not just your phone, but it's your regular charger, your portable charger, your handsfree set, the data transfer cable and so on making sure that when you lose a phone, you buy a new one from the same brand. You don't see quite so much of it with computers, though Apple has generally used it a lot particularly on things like iPods. If you have an AirPort, Time Capsule, AppleTV etc. chances are much higher you'll buy another Mac than if you don't.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Twice now I've had IBM/Lenovo laptops that use the same connectors as their predecessors, yet have increased wattage requirements that make the old supplies risky to use. I remember when our office transitioned from 600's to T20's. So many people were re-using the plug-and-voltage-compatible supplies and burning out the power regulators on the system board that IT started putting bright green stickers on every machine warning you that you should only use the higher-power supplies.
Again, from T60 -> W500's... increased wattage requirements, same voltage and connector. While this one isn't burning out laptops, the older bricks run HOT.
SirWired
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The power supply is already in control of the charging. And it has its own computer, which takes advice from an application on the laptop. Why not treat the input as a raw supply input to a switcher and be intelligent about using it? Then you would just need an adapter cord, not an additional brick, for a number of sources.
For instance: If the laptop's power supply could:
- Operate (run the laptop and/or charge the battery) on voltages from 11.75 to 14
- Survive overvoltage spikes and noise.
- Shut down the load on the external source (and continue running on internal batteries if appropriate) when the voltage drops to a point that indicates 25% charge on the battery (so you don't damage it and can still start the vehicle engine if it's in good repair).
you could plug it directly into a 12V vehicular supply. No brick - just a cord with a fused cigarette lighter plug on one end and a laptop power connector on the other.
Input voltage sensing could even let the power supply take a guess at what's connected and do something safe until the power control application gave it advice. Portable solar panel? Aircraft EmPower (15V DC version)? 24V semitractor electrical system? (12 and 24V nominal home renewable energy systems could be handled with essentially the same algorithms as vehicles - perhaps with a tweak to the shutdown setpoint or debouncing algorithm.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Or the other gotcha they like to do. Your expensive OEM brick dies, you buy an aftermarket one, plug it in and it says "cannot determine adapter type, machine will function but not charge. Please connect a (insert type) adapter".
I don't think Micro-USB was an evil plot; the connector is sturdier, and takes up less space inside the phone. Plenty of vendors are using it: my Moto does, as does my wife's Nokia, BB, etc... it isn't exactly tough to find cheap 3rd-party chargers and cables. Good 'ol monoprice has cables starting at $0.68, and perfectly fine car chargers for $1.53.
SirWired
While we're at it:
Why not run and/or charge from power-over-ethernet? Then if you're plugged into a LAN that provides it (and your laptop doesn't eat too much to be fed that way) you don't need a separate power connection.
And accept a slow rechage from a GSMA mini-USB standardized cellphone charger. Handy if you're on the road and making light use of the laptop - or lost the main line-power brick. (Lets the laptop be a client on another machines USB hub, too.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Recently,Dell seems to have done this, at least internally. My 4 year old Inspiron uses the same plug as my Wifes 1 year old Inspiron uses the same plug as my daughter's 4 month old Vostro. The only real change between them is the wattage - I briefly had a Dell Studio 15 that had a 90 Watt PS instead of the 65 watters that the other laptops use, and other than a warning about not being able to run at "full speed" because of insufficient power, it worked fine.
I returned the Studio 15 because of terrible lockups under Windows 7 and Fedora/64, and am now waiting for my Dell Precision, so we'll see if they are the same... but it's obvious that Dell is standardizing where possible.
Do realize, however, that standardizing power has a split advantage - on one side, a standard power plug means that yours will work everywhere. On the other side, it also means that nifty innovations like "plug-less" power becomes more difficult to accept. Personally, I'd like to see a power plug much like Apple's that's magnetic and that simply pulls off when yanked too hard from any direction so that we don't have power plugs that wear rapidly in highly mobile lifestyles.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
It's not just about one company. Really, seeing in the summary the the ATX given as some kind of universal thing makes me smirk. Sure, it works like that if you build your own PC or get a beige box built for you by some mom and pop shop. But try upgrading a Dell or a HP or a few others, and you may or may not have a nasty surprise. Off the top of my head one even went as far as to reverse two pins on the connector, so you instantly fry the mobo or the source if you try replacing either yourself. And non-standard size PSUs are more common than you'd think.
So basically if it'll be anything like the PSU situation, well, you'll have notebook power supply that so standard that it works in everything except a brand name notebook. Opps, wait, that's almost all notebooks.
Honestly, good luck in trying to get most big companies to play nice with standards, unless they're fighting uphill against a de facto monopoly. Then they'll want open standards all right, so they can get access to the fat juicy pool of users in that guy's walled garden. But otherwise, they each want you in their own walled garden and are not going to put a big fat hole in the wall, which is what an open standard is to walled gardens.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
There was an episode of the Simpsons called "Itchy and Scratchy Land", and from that episode, there was a map with an attraction named "Unnecessary Surgery Land".
Hence I coined the phrase UWS or "Unnecessary Work Syndrome" for things exactly like this, where every manufacturer spends thousands or even millions of dollars to come up with their own special version of say... the power brick.
I'm not sure if open source is appropriate all the time, but open standards are such a no-brainer, it hurts.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
The kettle leads are also rated to work at higher temperatures, which is one of the reasons you can got from kettle to pc, but not from pc to kettle.
Also, do you guys in the US have kettles? I'm sure I've read many times that your electricity is too weak to power a kettle , here in the UK we can get 3KW kettles which will boil a couple of litres of water in a minute or so.
What the heck is "bizarre" about power/heat/space/weight/cost optimization in a portable computer/any device know to man?
Either the build quality has dropped recently (after I bought my current laptop) or your parents have special abilities that let them do it. Basically I have never seen the power connector come off the motherboard of a laptop, or at least have bad connection. The plug from the cable, sure, but not the socket.
I have fond memories of my Compaq Armada 7790. Among its many virtues was a built-in power supply. If it had used the standard power cable used on desktop PCs (and just about everything else with a detachable power cable) it would have been perfect, although theirs wasn't too hard to get either (it was not some completely nonstandard Compaq-only plug). Not having the brick to deal with makes a big difference in terms of convenience.
If over loading the brick causes damage to anything other than the brick than the system is designed poorly.
The simplest solutions is to have the laptop simply ignore the supply if its not enough. Dell detects underpowered supplies on our laptops at work and will refuse to boot. My MacBook will detect the lower wattage version of the supply its supposed to have and warns me that its ignoring it for charging or something like that.
Since power requirements at this point are going to go lower rather than higher, the simple solution is to pick a wattage thats good for pretty much all laptops now, add 15-20% to it for possible unexpected jumps in the near future, and forget about it.
Laptops are going to use less and less power over time now, they are plenty fast enough.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
get the industry to back some kind of standardized board shape for laptops also. I think shuttle had some designs that they showed of recently for that use. That or some kind of standardized sizes for the various sub-boards like cpu+ram, GPU and IO.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
I really got P.O.ed when I went to Tokyo and forgot my Dell laptop power supply. This is the one with the hair-thin center connector (that is probably carrying way too many amps for something that thing) rather than a "traditional" coaxial power connector. I went all over Akihabara, where you usually can find anything electronic, and couldn't find the connector (I was ready to buy another power supply and solder on the connector). I was lucky I could "borrow" power from time to time from another Dell laptop sucker at my conference.
The Apple mag-safe connector is weird, but I'll admit it provides a useful feature (plus there are Apple stores all over the place). That Dell laptop power supply connector was designed for one thing: having to buy a Dell laptop power supply.
There was a series of Dell Inspiron laptops (8400? 8500? maybe 5000 series) that had the most ridiculous power connector. It was this big beefy cylinder, with a big beefy cable, where the receptacle on the motherboard was soldered on by three tiny tiny pins. Not even a big thick ground shield solder connection to help handle the physical stress. After a few months the connector would physically come off of the board requiring an RMA to Dell. A friend had three laptops go bad (once I resoldered the connector for him, worked like a charm till it came loose again) before Dell said they wouldn't replace the motherboard anymore. He eventually got them to send him a newer model with the same specs, even took the same power connector, and the problem disappeared.
You are still innocent until proven guilty. What's changed is what they do to innocent people. - notnAP, #26891325
There is no communication between the powersupply and laptop. The smart move would be add at least a comm link between these 2 so that interesting new approaches can be taken.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"My laptop must work with the most ancient projectors, the most ancient of cabling and the most ancient of users. Therefore VGA is a must".
Well, yes. When I go somewhere to deliver a presentation, I use whatever projector the convention provides. I need to make whatever kind of connection the projector can accept. My old Powerbook was good in that regard: I could buy (terribly overpriced) adaptors for TV-out, VGA, DVI, whatever, and connect to just about any projector. But VGA was by far the one I used most.
DVI-I to VGA adaptors are, of course, perfectly fine... Basically as long as the analog signal is there (i.e. it's not DVI-D)...
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I had a Powerbook for several years (still do, actually, I just don't use it any more) - and one of the things I really liked when I switched to a EEE 901 was the power cord... 12V, with a good ol' 2.5mm coaxial power jack.
Now, this connector is nothing fancy - it doesn't project the laptop or the cord from someone tripping over the cord, things like that. But it's a simple, long-standing standard connector. I can buy one at Radio Shack.
"Why would someone need a replacement connector?" you might ask? Remember I said I owned a Powerbook? Between my wife and myself we probably owned a total of five of those old, pre-Magsafe Apple laptop power adaptors, and every damn one of them has failed. I've repaired a couple of them more than once, only to have them break again. For me, the idea of being able to simply read the damn specs and connect a suitable power source is just lovely.
Of course, apart from the "Magsafe"-type breakaway that everyone expects these days, there's another reason laptop manufacturers generally don't go in for such a simple solution: they want to protect the idiots who don't understand current ratings, keep them from hooking up their laptops to a 300mA adaptor or something stupid like that. They don't want these people going into Radio Shack, buying the wrong wall wart, pairing it with the "M" adaptaplug and killing the adaptor, or the laptop, or both. But for me, being able to get a power connector for my laptop just about anywhere is grand.
If the laptop manufacturers out there work out a common standard connector for laptop power bricks, that could still be nice, as the connector type will be common enough that I could at least buy the connector, or a cheap cord with the connector on it, should I need to fix something or rig something up... But there's something fabulous about having a laptop with a power connector that's really common and accessible... Even if the manufacturers come up with a new standard connector, as long as it's a new standard it still won't have that kind of ubiquity.
Bow-ties are cool.
Fine, standardize, but at least design both the plug and jack in a manner that is SOLID and will standup to the occasional accidentaly tugging or just plain weight of the cord due to gravity. Just Google for laptop power jack problems and we see pretty much every manufacturer has issues. The jack loosens from the motherboard and causes arcing and charging issues and ultimately stops working altogether.
Having had to re-solder such a power jack multiple times, I can tell you the design of these things is retarded. They are held on to the mobo by nothing more than short little tabs and the 2 power anodes with solder. And accessing this jack to re-solder requires taking an HP Pavillion completely apart.
Laptop makers have NO REASON to standardize.
At which point the EU steps in and mandates it, and then everyone benefits. They did this with USB plugs and mobile phone charging (though I think China also mandated it).
At the very least standardize on the plug into the laptop so we can have a fixed number of power bricks between the wall and the laptop. You can have whatever you want internally, but the plug on the laptop needs to work with any manufacturer's brick (perhaps have 3-4 variations for different power needs).
I recently bought an HP 6730b laptop on auction. I took it out of the container, and turned it on (without attaching the power supply). It's pretty snappy, and seems to be in good nick.
Perfect for my mother, I thought.
I plugged the charger in, and started installing Ubuntu. Good God! It's taking an AGE to even go through the POST, never mind running the OS. Shit! And the auction specified no returns if the OS has been changed! Now what?
Xorg is taking 80% of the CPU, just moving the mouse around. WTF!?
Long story short, it turns out it is the aftermarket power brick that is to blame. Unplug it, run it on battery, works like a dream. Plug it in, and it all goes to shit.
Check the voltage on the brick - all according to spec.
Looks like it is time to get a genuine brick for my mom.
My only thought is that the laptop is spending more time cycling between power saving (C3?) states that it actually does executing the instructions it has been given. Can anyone explain this behaviour better?
Last I checked the HDMI 1.4 standard, it only included 100Mbps ethernet, not gigabit.
For fewer connections, check out HDbaseT - power (100W), ethernet (100Mbps, upgradable to 1Gbps), and HD audio video over standard cat-6 cables.
Back in the early 90s, a friend of mine used to keep his computers in the kitchen pantry, next to the stove, and run long cables into the living room for the monitors and keyboards. It let him keep things quieter, back when PCs were loud and some Sun machines were very loud, and he didn't bake very often anyway...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
My work laptops for the last N years were Toshibas and IBMs, and both used a cheap 2-prong cord to feed the power brick. You could buy them for $2 or so at Fry's as "Panasonic boom-box power cords", and it meant that I could leave them permanently plugged in under my desks at work and home, carry a couple of spares in my car and briefcase, occasionally forget one at a hotel or customer site and not care, etc. And most of the bricks that didn't sue that cord have used the (US) standard NEMA cords that all other computer equipment uses. (Now I've got a Dell at work, which uses a three-prong cord, and I haven't found a cheap source yet, but between enlightened equipment policies and incompetent repair people, I've got a couple of extra power bricks, so I don't need to carry them around very often.)
But no, a standardized power supply would only be expensive if it's using some specialized Intellectual Property, i.e. if they pay Apple enough to use the cool magnetic coupler. Otherwise there's no reason they won't be sold for $5 by no-name Chinese companies, and if they're more expensive because they're oversized, they'll still only be $10.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
who calls it that... the technical term is molex
(Insert some lame joke about how YOU can have POWER over Ethernets, bwahaha, or about how in Soviet Russia, Ethernets power You.....)
PoE only provides 15.4 watts - it's not enough. And you end up needing a bunch of power equipment back in the switching room anyway, which you're buying at Cisco prices instead of No-Name-Netbook mfr prices, and if you've got PoE on your desk, it's because they've talked your boss into buying an IP Phone, which already wants that power.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I'm sure there's some technical reason that laptop makers keep increasing the voltages they use rather than increasing the available current at the old voltage - my current Dell wants 19. 5v, and my previous IBM wanted 20. But it really would be nice to have 12 volts again, so I could power the laptop from my car, or my portable car jump-starter battery, or from those 12-volt solar panels, as opposed to my current combination of 12Vdc-to-120Vac inverter and laptop power cord. You might want a surge protector in line, to avoid problems when you're starting you car, but you shouldn't need more than that.
Anybody know if we can get back to 12 volts?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
It's annoying that manufacturers are gratuitously incompatible with each other. It's really convenient to have one power brick at work and one at home, so I only need to drag one along if I'm traveling somewhere, and there's no reason it needs to be a $90 fancy proprietary brick as opposed to a $10 generic brick.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
> standard 3-pin "kettle cord"
You mean an IEC C13/C14 connector?
Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
Of course we need a fallback for the ancient projectors available in ancient conference hotels for insane daily rates from the inflated future.
It's just nice to have a small set of passive adapters (digital video to VGA and DVI to HDMI or vice versa) to be able to actually use a digital video input on the projector if it has one - and to slightly push those ancient conference hotels into preparing to phase out VGA. Slowly, decade-slowly, of course.
The difference in video quality is worth it, at 720p resolutions and above, with the usual long cable runs we routinely have on conferences and meetings.
Agreed, users would screw up the knob - that's why I said the knob maybe should be hidden. It's there only for "backwards compatibility". Going forward with new products and the new standard, we lose the knob, lower costs and all are happy. For machines running less than the set voltage an internal voltage regulator can adapt, since the voltage should be close. Best to use the standard voltage however and not transfer any extra electricity into heat.
Why, because the accessories market is a billion dollar enterprise. Can I get the same standard connector deal on cell phone power connectors too (this topics been tackled on /. a few times if I recall.) For example: WTF, why did they flatten the standard microUSB from Razor ver 1 to Razor ver 2?Not like the new one was uber thin and needed that flatter connector, but sure as shit, I had to buy a new car adaptor, and unless you get a cheap chinese knockoff on eBay those things sell for an assraping $30-50 in the ATT (Anal sTreTching) store.
Tweet, tweet, all id10t's out of the gene pool, open swim is over.
Well, you depict it as if it were an evil conspiracy. Actually I think they are more "lucky" than "evil" like the media companies and their copyright DRM bullshit.
The reason they have to use nonstandard parts is that the customers won't buy anything that is a millimeter larger or a nanosecond slower than the competition.
Overpowered nonstandard parts packed tight like some German sausage aren't exactly a recipe for long term durability.
The large and slow bottom of the barrel "crap" they sell to dumb customers is actually stuff you can be running a server off after 10 years. If their parts were standardized and easily replaceable, I would rather get one of those than a MacBook Air 3.Oh.
I have been ripped off by every maker with high end laptop models and the whole portable workstation bullshit. They are durable as long as you keep the CPU usage at 1% and only use the 3D card for composition. Start building software, encoding videos, or playing games and they are gone for good.
... but even more important is a single voltage.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
...is because companies can sell extra chargers at inflated prices. Just about all laptops charge via the same spec'd power brick, they just all use different plugs.
When was the last time you saw a laptop charger that didn't output somewhere around 16.5-19 volts at 5 or less amps? In fact, since Apple's probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to having proprietary designs, I pulled the charger for my 17-inch MacBook Pro out of the wall and looked at it: "16.5-18.5V 4.6A max," it says.
The same thing has gone on with cell phones forever and has only begun to be fixed in the last two or so. Pretty much all charge via 4.5-5 volts and draw less than 2 amps, usually 0.5-1.
Handphone Industry have standarized charging outlet since 2009. It's about time it also came into laptop industry.
The greenplug guys want to take this further and have one power supply for pretty much everything. I hope they succeed.
I really don't want ONE supply to charge all laptops because it would have to be big and bulky to support the most demanding ones. One in each of several power classes could be nice though. For example, I have a laptop that takes 1W from a little wall wart plug (OLPC XO-1), one that takes 65-95W and has an adapter for each, and I've worked on one that even takes 150W and had an adapter like an XBox 360!
PoE only provides 15.4 watts - it's not enough.
From your own reference:
The laptop I'm using now has a 75W brick, which can charge and run it simultaneously. So it might take half again as long to charge if off, and might not charge very fast at all if it were running. But that would still be better than running on batteries if I forgot (or didn't carry) the brick.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Even 51W isn't enough to run a full-sized computer and monitor, but that's using all four pairs for power, and 25.5 certainly isn't enough. And most of the PoE that's deployed is either standard 15.4 watt stuff or pre-standard Cisco proprietary PoE which is even lower power. Basically the 25.5W stuff is mostly going to let you run a VOIP phone with a fancier display.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks