Well, the EULA I signed when I got Windows also says they'll monitor whatever information they want out of me. So, it's good to know that all of these companies monitoring all of my information is *completely* okay, and nothing to worry about!
Of course, I dont use Windows anymore because of the EULAs. So Ill *also* continue not buying an iPhone, and everything will be fine.
your $600 bucks doesn't get you anything more than 'very good games'.
Buh??
Now look, I understand the PS3 bashing as much as anyone does. Ive been a console gamer forever, and the PS3 is still kinda behind on games. But first of all, I just bought a PS3 last week. PS3 (new 40 gig model) + Heavenly Sword + Ratchet and Clank, 520 dollars. Okay, so... if we're going by your "600 bucks" theory, really, you get 3 games. Now, let's take the other approach. Let's say "You dont get anything for your 400 bucks." Also not true. The fact is, I didnt buy a PS3 because I wanted a PS3. I bought a PS3 because I wanted a blu-ray or HD-DVD player, and 400 dollars is just about the cheapest you can get on the market. Since the subscription to the Sony Store comes for free, I have been downloading constant game demos and 1080p movie previews (which are WAY better than the ones from my on-demand cable service), and enjoying the heck out of them. It also functions as an upscaling DVD player, which last I checked, those are also about 300 bucks (may have come down since I checked). I also have a web browser, and have downloaded all kinds of images and little videos and music and stuff onto my PS3. And in addition to that, I actually have a blu-ray player that can get online firmware updates, which is great, because I always hated having to buy a new DVD player every time my firmware fell way behind.
But, maybe the point you're making is that buying a PS3 doesnt *come* with a game. Well, there actually *is* a Motorstorm pack for the PS3. Or, if you get the model I got, you get the spiderman 3 blu-ray. now, Im not a fan of the movie, but it actually was nice having a blu-ray to test my 1080p on, and Ive gotta say it looks fantastic during the high-action scenes. Really, neither of those options are that great, but at least they're options.
Im not saying the PS3 is perfect by any means. But with the drop of the 400 dollar models... if you're wanting a blu-ray or HD-DVD player, it's one HECK of a good deal. My only regret is that it cant also play HD-DVDs... but I figure Ill invest in one of those when prices on regular players come down further. But in any case, I definitely dont think it's fair to say you dont get anything more than 'very good games'. That's really just ignoring about 70% of the great features the box is capable of. I would say it's a lot more accurate to say that the problem with the PS3 is that it's an amazing blu-ray player, and a ho-hum console. Unfortunately, they targeted towards the console market... and people buying blu-ray players dont even pay attention to it.
^^Sorry, quick correction to clear up confusion on my previous post. When I said "firmware yum-supplied repo", I meant "firmware yum-supplied rpm". It didnt require a special repo, and since I already have mine installed, Im not sure which one I got it from. But Ill do a quick check for you by removing it... *scampers off*
Looks like it just comes from plain old Fedora-updates. So it should be available easily to nearly anyone on FC.
I dont know if you had looked into it, but when I do a yum list and pipe to a grep, I find:
iwl3945-firmware.noarch 2.14.1.5-1
Now, maybe you already have this package installed, im not trying to be a smartass here. But I only noticed this firmware yum-supplied repo last week, and it seems to have cleared up all of my problems with my PRO wireless card. Maybe it would do the same for you? Maybe not, maybe Im missing something else Ive done (Ive installed and compiled I dont know how many things to try to get this wireless driver finally working smoothly, without turning to ndiswrapper). I just thought Id mention this, since I personally had overlooked it for so long, i thought your situation might be similar.
If the warranty states that the manufacturer doesn't support unauthorized hacks and will void the warranty, then you do your mods at your own risk.
Fair enough. However, the warranty does not state "the manufacturer doesn't support unauthorized hacks and will deliberately try to destroy your device if you use them". In fact, they're not even legally ALLOWED to pull that sort of thing. Once you buy an iPhone, it's yours, and Apple certainly doesnt have the right to come to your home and smash it with a sledgehammer if they dont like how you're using it. It seems that this is all that they're doing, merely in software form.
The big question over whether this is right or wrong is really "Was it honestly an accident?" And... given Apple's previous stances and history with lock-in and proprietarianism (that's a hell of a made-up word), I dont think any of us are buying that this was just completely accidental. Especially with the convenient timing. Much more likely, this is just Apple's prompt response for trying to kill (legal!) modders off ASAP.
There is a large difference in taking it back to NonExistentCarCompany and saying "Please fix my car", and NonExistentCarCompany pushing out an upgrade via WLAN that will cause your car to get auto-upgraded and stop dead in the middle of the road somewhere.
Or, better yet, say you took your car to NonExistentCarCompany, and they said "This isnt under warranty", and then ran a software upgrade which caused your car not to start anymore. Now, even further, imagine that this "problem" wasnt a mistake at all, but they are DELIBERATELY crippling your upgraded vehicle.
The issue here isnt about whether or not Apple is required to take care of hacked iPhone user's phones. The issue here is that Apple is almost certainly SABOTAGING a product that you bought from them, and ARE USING WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE LAW.
Right, you're not using the product within limits of the warranty. That's fine and well. But you ARE using it legally, and Apple is going out of their way to DESTROY YOUR property. To me, this is tantamount to vandalism on a semi-massive level, and whether or not Apple is within bounds of the law here DOES need to be questioned.
Remember, if they are DELIBERATELY disabling these iPhones, they are *not* working on THEIR devices. They are going after other people's merchandise and shutting it off, not because you broke the law, but because they just "dont approve of what you're doing with the device they manufactured".
Even Microsoft at least has the fallback standpoint of "We're trying to stop the people who steal our software, which we have a right to charge for". People with unlocked iPhones didnt STEAL the iPhone. They already paid Apple their damn money. And if Apple is going after them to shut them off for "not being our ass-slaves and doing everything the exact way we tell you to", then in my opinion this is completely unacceptable corporate behavior. It only remains to be seen how the legal system feels (or is paid to feel) about that.
That's a fine point, but I'll respond with the standard question (and, maybe this doesnt apply to you. I have no previous history with you, so I dont know):
Why is it that when a company like Microsoft or Oracle does some sort of lock-in or stunt like this, they're "so evil" and it's just such a demonstration of how evil they are, but when Apple does it they're just "doing what a business has to do"?
You are absolutely correct in your point. Apple is no way obligated to "support" hacked iPhones. However, how does it BENEFIT them to go after the phones and turn them into bricks? And you can just about bet with safe odds that this WAS deliberate. They are going after these hacked iPhones as if they were a threat to the company and their profits, and that, to me, is just... well, asshole.
I agree that Apple's not obligated to supply full support for hacked iPhones. I agree with that 100%. And if this new bricking was *caused* by a REAL feature-upgrade that Apple was trying to do, and it *happened* to collide with the hacks... then that's fine and dandy and sucks for everyone. However, I dont think anyone believes that's what is actually happening here. Apple (like Sony), has shown again and again that they are SERIOUSLY against homebrewing of any sort, and will implement over and over again whatever features they can to stymie those efforts. Everyone can readily admit that Sony is a bunch of assholes over their handling of the PSP. Why is it just SO hard for people to admit it with Apple?
As I said, maybe this doesnt apply to you. Maybe you're always even-handed and would have come out and supported Microsoft or Sony or any of those other companies if they were doing this exact same stunt. However, if you would not have, perhaps you should take a look at yourself and consider "You might be a fanboy".
Just because you stopped playing doesn't mean you won the game. It means you aren't a player. Or at least, are irrelevent like a guy who sits on the bench the whole game. I pretty much figured you didn't have much actual experience with cell phones from the nonsense you are spouting about how bills are always going wrong.
Dear lord, you sure are GREAT at reading things that arent there, huh? This will be once again that you've done it. If you had paid attention to my previous post, you could easily read "as I got tired of cell companies a couple of years ago and have switched to vonage". Which part of that implies "little cell phone experience?" That's like saying Ive never used Windows because I got sick of Windows years ago and moved to Linux. Sure, you can say I dont have any RECENT cellphone experience, but you cant say I dont have none, and you cant even say I dont have a LOT, 5+ years.
And you say that Im "spouting nonsense" about people's cell phone bills always going wrong... Well, I guess THAT is why so many cellphone commercials are targeted towards people who are tired of outrageous cellphone bills. Gee, I think it's amazing how some nonsense I totally made up is totally driving the advertising firms at all of the majority telecommunications companies. That's awesome!
As to your "I stopped playing the game" bluff, you clearly didnt stop playing the game, or you wouldnt still be trying to make an argument. On the flip side, I AM going to stop playing the game, because... well, your points are very weak, and I have other places to be. Since I, unfortunately, dont own an iPhone, I cant be posting on/. on the go. So sad for me, I guess. If you wish to make the last post and therefore "win", have at.
Bills you receive, you pay, there is not really any pain except perhaps when you need to pay your billing address
This is still a ridiculous statement. Most people I know with cell phone plans have PLENTY of problems with their bill. Either they run up minutes, they wind up paying for RECEIVING text messages... somewhere or another, they have problems with their bill. It gets run up to 300+ dollars for a single month. Im not saying that's not that person's fault. But saying "cellphone bills arent a problem" just seems outright stupid to me.
I also cannot talk an unlimited amount of time. But actually, you are partly wrong - the $80 and $100 plans come with unlimited nights & weekends. I personally will not need more than a few hundred minutes a month anyway, so the $60 plan was perfect.
Unlimited nights and weekends is NOT unlimited minutes. Just because you're on an unlimited nights and weekends plan does not mean your bill cannot still get driven up.
I don't particularly care for your financial pissing contest.
I dont care much for any of your post, as you seem to have completely ignored the point of my post, which was simply a response to your original post of "cell phone companies bad but it's not their fault!".
I'll bet I paid less for my last phone + service than you do for yours
You would lose that bet, as I got tired of cell companies a couple of years ago and have switched to vonage. Feel free to try again.
Dont take this as offensive, because I may be wrong, but:
After activation is complete though, we don't really have to talk to the cell-phone carrier. It seems to me that the notion that post-activation we dont have to deal with the cell-phone carrier is the notion of someone with WAY too much american-style dollar. Personally, that little bill I get in the mail once a month is a PRETTY big dialog from the cell-phone carrier that I take very seriously. And again, maybe Im wrong, but last I heard these iPhone dont come with any "unlimited minutes" plans. So I think the original post of "everyone I know who has cingular hates them" will also be true. I saw your point about "We expect to hate our provider"... but that's just not true! I know plenty of people who when they hated their provider, you know what they did? They SWITCHED! And then again, and again, until they found someone they were happy with. And not ONCE has that final company been AT&T/Cingular. In fact, they're usually the first one. The company everyone starts with and realizes "this is shit." And the people who dont realize it just seem to either A. Have too much money B. Have someone else paying their cell bill or C. just dont pay that much attention (probably a corollary to A. or B.)
I will never understand this site. People blast Microsoft all day long for forcing people to do things in proprietary ways, and then give Apple a free pass for the same tactics. I scanned this entire article's comments looking for a post like this. It feels good to see, because this whole thing has made me feel like everyone is completely insane.
Seriously, if this entire endeavor had gone the EXACT same way, except that it was the "Microsoft xPhone", all of these Apple fanboys would just be constantly tearing into what an evil, monopolistic company Microsoft is, and how they were trying to control every nuance of their customers, and strip them of all freedom to use the product as they see fit, yadda yadda. Not to mention NO ONE would be defending the AT&T merger, like Ive seen a lot of here. And dont get me wrong, Im not a Microsoft fan, I hate them. But how can ANYONE hate Microsoft and not see how balls-to-the-walls evil Apple has been in this whole endeavor? They could have done so many things SO differently. It's not like they were FORCED to use this locked-down and controlling of an approach. they chose to. They WANTED to.
I just... I dont understand. I feel like Im living in a madhouse. Ive been debating buying a laptop for a while now. And now that this Apple iPhone has come out, and people are paying $2000 a year for it (people who complain that the PS3 costs way too much), I think Im gonna go out and invest me some money in a nice cool 800 dollar laptop. Wait til you see all the features you get on one of those badboys! And you dont even have to pay 60 dollars a month! but will it run linux? HELL YES IT WILL.
Because most of us did, we used it, and we hated it?
Do you think we were all just born and given computers with linux on them? No. Almost everyone grew up on Windows computers. That's the world we live in. A lot, A LOT, of us just hated it.
And hell, most of us are STILL forced to use windows computers, at work generally, and most of us STILL hate them.
How about you use whatever OS you DONT hate, and allow me to do the same?
Although, to answer your question "how about giving Vista a break", in this case it's mostly because this is a MICROSOFT article talking about how MICROSOFT has the more secure OS. Even if you ARE a Windows fan... are you going to believe that shit? I dont believe Sony when they tell me the PS3 is better, I dont believe Nintendo when they tell me the Wii is better, and I dont believe Red Hat when they tell me why Linux is better. Companies have 0 interest in spreading the truth. Truth is not profitable. This article, even if it is true (which I wont speak to) is null and void for believability based on the EXTREME bias going into it.
I hope your interpretation here is the right one, because this is the way I think things SHOULD be. I cant ever sort out legal mumbo jumbo for myself, though...
You forgot "any random soundclip sequence ever made set to random Naruto clips for no apparent reason."
But you're right. These are the day-to-day necessities that the iPhone is attempting to fulfill within us all. God knows you shouldnt be forced to get all the way FROM your home computer TO your work computer without having continuous access to youtube on the drive. Ive been waiting for the navigation console built into my dashboard to finally be able to play youtube vids, but now, thanks to the iPhone, I wont be needing that.
You say that now, and it's simple enough it seems. However, what if in the future, AO ratings start getting handed out more and more easily, due to people being paranoid over "the influence on children?" I mean, AO *does* stand for Adult-only, right? So maybe things might get to a point where any game that seems inappropriate for children will start getting AO ratings. For example, I could easily see God of War 2 having earned an AO rating, under a little more harsh of a comity. Now, so far, that right hasnt been abused. But people like Jack Thompson are pushing awfully hard to see that it IS abused. For example, the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas being retroactively tagged "AO".
And I say your movie-theatre comparison is flawed. It's more like if someone made said snuff film, and then were told they werent allowed to put it on VHS, DVD, HD-DVD, or Blu-ray, because they all had proprietary licensing schemes to them. Once you've eliminated someone from using any accepted form of distribution for a product... it's simply a lockdown. Censorship always start out small. It's the future implications of it that I think people are so concerned over. Maybe it's time to put some limits on the outdated notion that once someone makes a console, they have control rights over all the media that comes out for that console (maybe not, Im not saying Im on that side, just playing devil's advocate). Also, this is exactly why people here are/were so against blu-ray for so long, because of the proprietary licensing control Sony has over blu-ray. If proprietarily licensed mediums become all of the prominent ones, then we could very realistically reach a case where movies were declared "Too inappropriate", and werent allowed to be distributed at all.
Well, it's more like not allowing an XXX rated flick on any channel. And, even further, it's more like not allowing XXX rated flicks to really exist, because it's like saying "We wont allow your XXX rated flick to exist on VHS, HD/DVD, or Blu-ray. Maybe try betamax?". And it's not that XXX rated flicks are illegal. Adults are allowed to watch them. Developers are just being barred at the door from getting them out there. If they arent allowed to produce the game on any Sony, Microsoft, of Nintendo console... they're almost without option.
Now, there might still be the option of making it a PC game. But once the game has already been developed, I dont know how practical that is or isnt, without some initial console sales to recoup their development losses.
So when it the last time you authored a DVD movie on Linux?
I dont have a response to some of this, because a lot of this stuff Ive never tried to do. However, the last time I authored a DVD in linux, I used Kino, and a program called DVDStyler, which is a front-end to the DVDAuthor command line utility. Both of which will show up easily under a Google search. Ive also heard good things about Q DVD Author. Again... people seem to be a lot quicker to complain, a lot slower to look for things.
Again, this shows pretty much a lack of any sort of looking into things on your part. Linux pretty much has a competitive application on every front. And all it takes to find it is pretty much a google search with the word "linux" in it. For example, "Linux video editing software" or "linux accounting software", ad nauseam.
I think what you're trying to say is "a lack of proprietary apps on linux is why I cant consider it", because most likely, you dont want apps that actually do the job best, as much as you want apps where, when something goes wrong, you have a company that you can point a finger at and say "It's not my fault, it's theirs. Call them and make them fix it." Plenty of companies run on linux machines. I run a full OS server shop here at the University I work at. Do you think I am handicapping myself to a subset of applications? No. When I need an app for something, I google for it, and so far I havent had that fail for me yet.
The only option linux tends to have trouble with is games. So maybe you cant convert your Windows shop to linux because you dont want to lose the ability to play World of Warcraft at work?
Im sorry, but I have a hard time taking any of your statements with any sort of merit. You're nothing more than a troll with backwards, dated ideas on what linux is, and you have no intention to do any research or ever attempt to change them. Have fun living in the 1980s.
This is a ridiculous statement anyway, and just shows that you're not out to give any real linux distro a chance.
What do you think Red Hat sells, exactly? Do you think they sell software/code? bzzzzzt. Wrongo. They sell support. 24/7 support. In fact, from what I hear (I cant factually say this offhand, but I think most non-biased surveys would show it), it's a LOT easier to get support out of Red Hat these days than it is out of the beast that is Microsoft. I know that when I call M$ tech support, I usually give up after about an hour of trying to fight through hoops. Ive had less communication with Red Hat (since I know what Im doing anyway), but the few times I have had to contact them, it has taken me very little time to get the answer I wanted or needed. Usually an "is this supported?" issue.
I think it's safe to say that Red Hat isnt losing your business one way or another, as Grandparent suggested. Sounds like you're not out to try anything.
Slashdot Mirror
Which you will.
Well, the EULA I signed when I got Windows also says they'll monitor whatever information they want out of me. So, it's good to know that all of these companies monitoring all of my information is *completely* okay, and nothing to worry about!
Of course, I dont use Windows anymore because of the EULAs. So Ill *also* continue not buying an iPhone, and everything will be fine.
At least it's Apple tracking you, not AT&T?
Wait...
your $600 bucks doesn't get you anything more than 'very good games'.
Buh??
Now look, I understand the PS3 bashing as much as anyone does. Ive been a console gamer forever, and the PS3 is still kinda behind on games. But first of all, I just bought a PS3 last week. PS3 (new 40 gig model) + Heavenly Sword + Ratchet and Clank, 520 dollars. Okay, so... if we're going by your "600 bucks" theory, really, you get 3 games. Now, let's take the other approach. Let's say "You dont get anything for your 400 bucks." Also not true. The fact is, I didnt buy a PS3 because I wanted a PS3. I bought a PS3 because I wanted a blu-ray or HD-DVD player, and 400 dollars is just about the cheapest you can get on the market. Since the subscription to the Sony Store comes for free, I have been downloading constant game demos and 1080p movie previews (which are WAY better than the ones from my on-demand cable service), and enjoying the heck out of them. It also functions as an upscaling DVD player, which last I checked, those are also about 300 bucks (may have come down since I checked). I also have a web browser, and have downloaded all kinds of images and little videos and music and stuff onto my PS3. And in addition to that, I actually have a blu-ray player that can get online firmware updates, which is great, because I always hated having to buy a new DVD player every time my firmware fell way behind.
But, maybe the point you're making is that buying a PS3 doesnt *come* with a game. Well, there actually *is* a Motorstorm pack for the PS3. Or, if you get the model I got, you get the spiderman 3 blu-ray. now, Im not a fan of the movie, but it actually was nice having a blu-ray to test my 1080p on, and Ive gotta say it looks fantastic during the high-action scenes. Really, neither of those options are that great, but at least they're options.
Im not saying the PS3 is perfect by any means. But with the drop of the 400 dollar models... if you're wanting a blu-ray or HD-DVD player, it's one HECK of a good deal. My only regret is that it cant also play HD-DVDs... but I figure Ill invest in one of those when prices on regular players come down further. But in any case, I definitely dont think it's fair to say you dont get anything more than 'very good games'. That's really just ignoring about 70% of the great features the box is capable of. I would say it's a lot more accurate to say that the problem with the PS3 is that it's an amazing blu-ray player, and a ho-hum console. Unfortunately, they targeted towards the console market... and people buying blu-ray players dont even pay attention to it.
^^Sorry, quick correction to clear up confusion on my previous post. When I said "firmware yum-supplied repo", I meant "firmware yum-supplied rpm". It didnt require a special repo, and since I already have mine installed, Im not sure which one I got it from. But Ill do a quick check for you by removing it... *scampers off*
Looks like it just comes from plain old Fedora-updates. So it should be available easily to nearly anyone on FC.
I dont know if you had looked into it, but when I do a yum list and pipe to a grep, I find:
iwl3945-firmware.noarch 2.14.1.5-1
Now, maybe you already have this package installed, im not trying to be a smartass here. But I only noticed this firmware yum-supplied repo last week, and it seems to have cleared up all of my problems with my PRO wireless card. Maybe it would do the same for you? Maybe not, maybe Im missing something else Ive done (Ive installed and compiled I dont know how many things to try to get this wireless driver finally working smoothly, without turning to ndiswrapper). I just thought Id mention this, since I personally had overlooked it for so long, i thought your situation might be similar.
If the warranty states that the manufacturer doesn't support unauthorized hacks and will void the warranty, then you do your mods at your own risk.
Fair enough. However, the warranty does not state "the manufacturer doesn't support unauthorized hacks and will deliberately try to destroy your device if you use them". In fact, they're not even legally ALLOWED to pull that sort of thing. Once you buy an iPhone, it's yours, and Apple certainly doesnt have the right to come to your home and smash it with a sledgehammer if they dont like how you're using it. It seems that this is all that they're doing, merely in software form.
The big question over whether this is right or wrong is really "Was it honestly an accident?" And... given Apple's previous stances and history with lock-in and proprietarianism (that's a hell of a made-up word), I dont think any of us are buying that this was just completely accidental. Especially with the convenient timing. Much more likely, this is just Apple's prompt response for trying to kill (legal!) modders off ASAP.
There is a large difference in taking it back to NonExistentCarCompany and saying "Please fix my car", and NonExistentCarCompany pushing out an upgrade via WLAN that will cause your car to get auto-upgraded and stop dead in the middle of the road somewhere.
Or, better yet, say you took your car to NonExistentCarCompany, and they said "This isnt under warranty", and then ran a software upgrade which caused your car not to start anymore. Now, even further, imagine that this "problem" wasnt a mistake at all, but they are DELIBERATELY crippling your upgraded vehicle.
The issue here isnt about whether or not Apple is required to take care of hacked iPhone user's phones. The issue here is that Apple is almost certainly SABOTAGING a product that you bought from them, and ARE USING WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE LAW.
Right, you're not using the product within limits of the warranty. That's fine and well. But you ARE using it legally, and Apple is going out of their way to DESTROY YOUR property. To me, this is tantamount to vandalism on a semi-massive level, and whether or not Apple is within bounds of the law here DOES need to be questioned.
Remember, if they are DELIBERATELY disabling these iPhones, they are *not* working on THEIR devices. They are going after other people's merchandise and shutting it off, not because you broke the law, but because they just "dont approve of what you're doing with the device they manufactured".
Even Microsoft at least has the fallback standpoint of "We're trying to stop the people who steal our software, which we have a right to charge for". People with unlocked iPhones didnt STEAL the iPhone. They already paid Apple their damn money. And if Apple is going after them to shut them off for "not being our ass-slaves and doing everything the exact way we tell you to", then in my opinion this is completely unacceptable corporate behavior. It only remains to be seen how the legal system feels (or is paid to feel) about that.
That's a fine point, but I'll respond with the standard question (and, maybe this doesnt apply to you. I have no previous history with you, so I dont know):
Why is it that when a company like Microsoft or Oracle does some sort of lock-in or stunt like this, they're "so evil" and it's just such a demonstration of how evil they are, but when Apple does it they're just "doing what a business has to do"?
You are absolutely correct in your point. Apple is no way obligated to "support" hacked iPhones. However, how does it BENEFIT them to go after the phones and turn them into bricks? And you can just about bet with safe odds that this WAS deliberate. They are going after these hacked iPhones as if they were a threat to the company and their profits, and that, to me, is just... well, asshole.
I agree that Apple's not obligated to supply full support for hacked iPhones. I agree with that 100%. And if this new bricking was *caused* by a REAL feature-upgrade that Apple was trying to do, and it *happened* to collide with the hacks... then that's fine and dandy and sucks for everyone. However, I dont think anyone believes that's what is actually happening here. Apple (like Sony), has shown again and again that they are SERIOUSLY against homebrewing of any sort, and will implement over and over again whatever features they can to stymie those efforts. Everyone can readily admit that Sony is a bunch of assholes over their handling of the PSP. Why is it just SO hard for people to admit it with Apple? As I said, maybe this doesnt apply to you. Maybe you're always even-handed and would have come out and supported Microsoft or Sony or any of those other companies if they were doing this exact same stunt. However, if you would not have, perhaps you should take a look at yourself and consider "You might be a fanboy".
You are referring, of course, to the mouse and UI that Apple stole from Xerox?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse
Yeah... they really SHOULD have worked a lot harder to make sure that stuff didnt get ripped off from the people who invented it. *cough*
No.
Thank you for your business.
~Jack Tretton
Just because you stopped playing doesn't mean you won the game. It means you aren't a player. Or at least, are irrelevent like a guy who sits on the bench the whole game. I pretty much figured you didn't have much actual experience with cell phones from the nonsense you are spouting about how bills are always going wrong.
/. on the go. So sad for me, I guess. If you wish to make the last post and therefore "win", have at.
Dear lord, you sure are GREAT at reading things that arent there, huh? This will be once again that you've done it. If you had paid attention to my previous post, you could easily read "as I got tired of cell companies a couple of years ago and have switched to vonage". Which part of that implies "little cell phone experience?" That's like saying Ive never used Windows because I got sick of Windows years ago and moved to Linux. Sure, you can say I dont have any RECENT cellphone experience, but you cant say I dont have none, and you cant even say I dont have a LOT, 5+ years.
And you say that Im "spouting nonsense" about people's cell phone bills always going wrong... Well, I guess THAT is why so many cellphone commercials are targeted towards people who are tired of outrageous cellphone bills. Gee, I think it's amazing how some nonsense I totally made up is totally driving the advertising firms at all of the majority telecommunications companies. That's awesome!
As to your "I stopped playing the game" bluff, you clearly didnt stop playing the game, or you wouldnt still be trying to make an argument. On the flip side, I AM going to stop playing the game, because... well, your points are very weak, and I have other places to be. Since I, unfortunately, dont own an iPhone, I cant be posting on
Bills you receive, you pay, there is not really any pain except perhaps when you need to pay your billing address
This is still a ridiculous statement. Most people I know with cell phone plans have PLENTY of problems with their bill. Either they run up minutes, they wind up paying for RECEIVING text messages... somewhere or another, they have problems with their bill. It gets run up to 300+ dollars for a single month. Im not saying that's not that person's fault. But saying "cellphone bills arent a problem" just seems outright stupid to me.
I also cannot talk an unlimited amount of time. But actually, you are partly wrong - the $80 and $100 plans come with unlimited nights & weekends. I personally will not need more than a few hundred minutes a month anyway, so the $60 plan was perfect.
Unlimited nights and weekends is NOT unlimited minutes. Just because you're on an unlimited nights and weekends plan does not mean your bill cannot still get driven up.
I don't particularly care for your financial pissing contest.
I dont care much for any of your post, as you seem to have completely ignored the point of my post, which was simply a response to your original post of "cell phone companies bad but it's not their fault!".
I'll bet I paid less for my last phone + service than you do for yours
You would lose that bet, as I got tired of cell companies a couple of years ago and have switched to vonage. Feel free to try again.
After activation is complete though, we don't really have to talk to the cell-phone carrier.
It seems to me that the notion that post-activation we dont have to deal with the cell-phone carrier is the notion of someone with WAY too much american-style dollar. Personally, that little bill I get in the mail once a month is a PRETTY big dialog from the cell-phone carrier that I take very seriously. And again, maybe Im wrong, but last I heard these iPhone dont come with any "unlimited minutes" plans. So I think the original post of "everyone I know who has cingular hates them" will also be true. I saw your point about "We expect to hate our provider"... but that's just not true! I know plenty of people who when they hated their provider, you know what they did? They SWITCHED! And then again, and again, until they found someone they were happy with. And not ONCE has that final company been AT&T/Cingular. In fact, they're usually the first one. The company everyone starts with and realizes "this is shit." And the people who dont realize it just seem to either A. Have too much money B. Have someone else paying their cell bill or C. just dont pay that much attention (probably a corollary to A. or B.)
I like this post. I wish I had modpoints for ya... sorry bro.
I scanned this entire article's comments looking for a post like this. It feels good to see, because this whole thing has made me feel like everyone is completely insane.
Seriously, if this entire endeavor had gone the EXACT same way, except that it was the "Microsoft xPhone", all of these Apple fanboys would just be constantly tearing into what an evil, monopolistic company Microsoft is, and how they were trying to control every nuance of their customers, and strip them of all freedom to use the product as they see fit, yadda yadda. Not to mention NO ONE would be defending the AT&T merger, like Ive seen a lot of here. And dont get me wrong, Im not a Microsoft fan, I hate them. But how can ANYONE hate Microsoft and not see how balls-to-the-walls evil Apple has been in this whole endeavor? They could have done so many things SO differently. It's not like they were FORCED to use this locked-down and controlling of an approach. they chose to. They WANTED to.
I just... I dont understand. I feel like Im living in a madhouse. Ive been debating buying a laptop for a while now. And now that this Apple iPhone has come out, and people are paying $2000 a year for it (people who complain that the PS3 costs way too much), I think Im gonna go out and invest me some money in a nice cool 800 dollar laptop. Wait til you see all the features you get on one of those badboys! And you dont even have to pay 60 dollars a month! but will it run linux? HELL YES IT WILL.
Because most of us did, we used it, and we hated it?
Do you think we were all just born and given computers with linux on them? No. Almost everyone grew up on Windows computers. That's the world we live in. A lot, A LOT, of us just hated it.
And hell, most of us are STILL forced to use windows computers, at work generally, and most of us STILL hate them.
How about you use whatever OS you DONT hate, and allow me to do the same?
Although, to answer your question "how about giving Vista a break", in this case it's mostly because this is a MICROSOFT article talking about how MICROSOFT has the more secure OS. Even if you ARE a Windows fan... are you going to believe that shit? I dont believe Sony when they tell me the PS3 is better, I dont believe Nintendo when they tell me the Wii is better, and I dont believe Red Hat when they tell me why Linux is better. Companies have 0 interest in spreading the truth. Truth is not profitable. This article, even if it is true (which I wont speak to) is null and void for believability based on the EXTREME bias going into it.
I hope your interpretation here is the right one, because this is the way I think things SHOULD be. I cant ever sort out legal mumbo jumbo for myself, though...
You forgot "any random soundclip sequence ever made set to random Naruto clips for no apparent reason."
But you're right. These are the day-to-day necessities that the iPhone is attempting to fulfill within us all. God knows you shouldnt be forced to get all the way FROM your home computer TO your work computer without having continuous access to youtube on the drive. Ive been waiting for the navigation console built into my dashboard to finally be able to play youtube vids, but now, thanks to the iPhone, I wont be needing that.
Yeah, Ive experienced that one. It can be hard having a girlfriend who isnt already jaded. Maybe I need to date someone older than 20.
You say that now, and it's simple enough it seems. However, what if in the future, AO ratings start getting handed out more and more easily, due to people being paranoid over "the influence on children?" I mean, AO *does* stand for Adult-only, right? So maybe things might get to a point where any game that seems inappropriate for children will start getting AO ratings. For example, I could easily see God of War 2 having earned an AO rating, under a little more harsh of a comity. Now, so far, that right hasnt been abused. But people like Jack Thompson are pushing awfully hard to see that it IS abused. For example, the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas being retroactively tagged "AO".
And I say your movie-theatre comparison is flawed. It's more like if someone made said snuff film, and then were told they werent allowed to put it on VHS, DVD, HD-DVD, or Blu-ray, because they all had proprietary licensing schemes to them. Once you've eliminated someone from using any accepted form of distribution for a product... it's simply a lockdown. Censorship always start out small. It's the future implications of it that I think people are so concerned over. Maybe it's time to put some limits on the outdated notion that once someone makes a console, they have control rights over all the media that comes out for that console (maybe not, Im not saying Im on that side, just playing devil's advocate). Also, this is exactly why people here are/were so against blu-ray for so long, because of the proprietary licensing control Sony has over blu-ray. If proprietarily licensed mediums become all of the prominent ones, then we could very realistically reach a case where movies were declared "Too inappropriate", and werent allowed to be distributed at all.
An inch at a time, my friend. An inch at a time.
Well, it's more like not allowing an XXX rated flick on any channel. And, even further, it's more like not allowing XXX rated flicks to really exist, because it's like saying "We wont allow your XXX rated flick to exist on VHS, HD/DVD, or Blu-ray. Maybe try betamax?". And it's not that XXX rated flicks are illegal. Adults are allowed to watch them. Developers are just being barred at the door from getting them out there. If they arent allowed to produce the game on any Sony, Microsoft, of Nintendo console... they're almost without option.
Now, there might still be the option of making it a PC game. But once the game has already been developed, I dont know how practical that is or isnt, without some initial console sales to recoup their development losses.
So when it the last time you authored a DVD movie on Linux?
I dont have a response to some of this, because a lot of this stuff Ive never tried to do. However, the last time I authored a DVD in linux, I used Kino, and a program called DVDStyler, which is a front-end to the DVDAuthor command line utility. Both of which will show up easily under a Google search. Ive also heard good things about Q DVD Author. Again... people seem to be a lot quicker to complain, a lot slower to look for things.
Again, this shows pretty much a lack of any sort of looking into things on your part. Linux pretty much has a competitive application on every front. And all it takes to find it is pretty much a google search with the word "linux" in it. For example, "Linux video editing software" or "linux accounting software", ad nauseam.
I think what you're trying to say is "a lack of proprietary apps on linux is why I cant consider it", because most likely, you dont want apps that actually do the job best, as much as you want apps where, when something goes wrong, you have a company that you can point a finger at and say "It's not my fault, it's theirs. Call them and make them fix it." Plenty of companies run on linux machines. I run a full OS server shop here at the University I work at. Do you think I am handicapping myself to a subset of applications? No. When I need an app for something, I google for it, and so far I havent had that fail for me yet.
The only option linux tends to have trouble with is games. So maybe you cant convert your Windows shop to linux because you dont want to lose the ability to play World of Warcraft at work?
Im sorry, but I have a hard time taking any of your statements with any sort of merit. You're nothing more than a troll with backwards, dated ideas on what linux is, and you have no intention to do any research or ever attempt to change them. Have fun living in the 1980s.
This is a ridiculous statement anyway, and just shows that you're not out to give any real linux distro a chance.
What do you think Red Hat sells, exactly? Do you think they sell software/code? bzzzzzt. Wrongo. They sell support. 24/7 support. In fact, from what I hear (I cant factually say this offhand, but I think most non-biased surveys would show it), it's a LOT easier to get support out of Red Hat these days than it is out of the beast that is Microsoft. I know that when I call M$ tech support, I usually give up after about an hour of trying to fight through hoops. Ive had less communication with Red Hat (since I know what Im doing anyway), but the few times I have had to contact them, it has taken me very little time to get the answer I wanted or needed. Usually an "is this supported?" issue.
I think it's safe to say that Red Hat isnt losing your business one way or another, as Grandparent suggested. Sounds like you're not out to try anything.