So the fact that more and more devs went to GNOME was a nonissue? Not quite. The pressure from KDE came for a reason, and when GNOME was actually becoming equal to KDE it became clear. GNOME was following a winning strategy, and of course it was the GPL license that was responsible for a lot of the success GNOME had. Don't ignore the importance of competition. If Trolltech didn't feel threatened they would have never changed license.
Please read the history. It was made GPL due to the pressure partly caused by the GPL licensed GNOME/GTK. This was long before Nokia was even in the picture. Read this so you know what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about GPL, not LGPL. If you had followed the Qt development over the years you would know what I'm talking about. Luckally we have wikipedia.
The first two versions of Qt had only two flavours: Qt/X11 for Unix and Qt/Windows for the Windows platform. The Windows platform was only available under the proprietary license which meant free/open source applications written in Qt for X11 could not be ported to Windows without purchasing the QPL edition. In the end of 2001, Trolltech released Qt 3.0 which added support for the Mac OS X platform. The Mac OS X support was available only in the proprietary license, until June 2003, where Trolltech released Qt 3.2 with Mac OS X support available under the GPL.
In 2002 members of the KDE on Cygwin project began porting the GPL licensed Qt/X11 code base to Windows.[18] This was in response to Trolltech's refusal to license Qt/Windows under the GPL on the grounds that Windows was not a free software/open source platform.[19][20] The project achieved reasonable success although it never reached production quality.
This was resolved when Trolltech released Qt/Windows 4 under the GPL in June 2005. Qt 4 now supports the same set of platforms in the free software/open source editions as in the proprietary edition, so it is now possible to create GPL-licensed free/open source applications using Qt on all supported platforms.
That horrible GNOME/GTK of yours drove Trolltech into relicensing Qt to GPL. Thus Qt, and even Linux, wouldn't even be close to where it is today without GNOME. Say what you want about Ubuntu, but it's a fact that FOSS (and in particular Linux) awareness has grown immensely due to its contributions, and I doubt Kubuntu is to thank for this. It's a question of flavor, and I like to have options. Both projects thrive from eachother and the constant "battles" drive devs to find out new creative ways in order to be "unique" and innovative. Sure there's an advantage to cooperation, but without competition there's no pressure.
... end user experience and may end up making p2p useless for anyone except hardcore.
This reminds me of the IRC era before Napster. There was plenty of sharing to go around, and this was using far thinner internet tubes than today. Back then this was considered pretty hardcore, and even today it requires far more knowledge than uTorrent + TPB. However my comparison is not entirely fair. The internet generation holds far more general computer knowledge than the pre internet generation. Unless the hassle is extreme (which I doubt will be necessary) I'm sure that the internet generations equivalent to IRC filesharers will be more than the latter.
But then again, we're both speculating since it's too complex to be foreseen.
You're semi right. It's not Slashdot. It's kids on internet that haven't yet learned these rules. Also since ignoring these rules require less work they tend to become infectious to others. However internet lingo in all fairness, I don't really care if someone uses bold instead of italic when emphasising a word, or even spelling incorrectly. These are acceptable mistakes. But misquoting is unacceptable and it questions the whole liability of the text. To me, as a reader, using quotation incorrectly would be as confusing as swapping two letters with eachother. Some rules can be bent, some rules can't. If you want people to read what you write it's a good idea not to lie, even unintentionally.
Because it's a qoute. You see there are rules to any language and one of them in the English language is regarding quoting. When you quote a source the text written must be matching every word of the source. When the quote contains unnecessary text to the topic at hand you cut out that part and replace it with three periods. This indicates that there's a piece missing from the original quote, in case e.g. someone is questioning the quote at hand. So you see quoting is not interpreting, and must be, at all times, matching every word of the source.
From what I know, OpenMoko did seem more "open", but then I don't understand why it has to be under the banner of a single phone instead of a general "helping Linux programs scale better so many programs can be easily run on small devices" project. But hey, if they want to gather around the Freerunner and such because it's an open phone, that's fine I guess, but it just seems a bit skewed to one company. =P
My God you have no idea what you're talking about so I'm ending the conversation. Seriously if you take me for an asshole then go ahead. It would prove that I'm wasting my time anyway. If you're any wiser then please read what the hell OpenMoko and Freerunner are and then read your post again. Be prepared to either painfully cry or painfully laugh though. Me -- I'm still trying to decide and right now it just feels painfull.
You know such prohibiting laws would just drive people into cooking their own CPUs in their cellar bathtub and then sneak them through underground tunnels to your local vendor.
I mean being... against socialism and all is not just about exiling the commies...
That's called uniting a nation through a common enemy thus making them susceptable to manipulation. Every major ideology works just fine if it would be implemented and practiced properly. But none is, due to the "human factor", thus we have failed capitalism and failed socialism. The ignorant merely frown and point to the other side whilst the wise understand the difficulties of any side.
All these different open source mobile device projects re-inventing the wheel saddens me.
Well if the people who invented the wheel refuse to share the secrets one needs to reinvent it and spread it so that it never has to be invented again. Your anger lies within the proprietary sector, not the FOSS sector that are desperately trying to straighten out the mess.
GTK and QT should be made so scalable that they should be made capable of running on mobile devices without being memory hogs, apps should be made scalable too so they can run on small screens and not have to be rewritten, or with very minimal rewriting, and everything should run on X.org perhaps configured some for performance.
This makes me doubt you're even following the embedding progresses so I don't even know what to respond to this.
Basically, I want to just run standard Linux GUI and command line programs so I can have *all* the same apps available to me, even if I had to scroll around because some app wasn't the "mini" version, you still wouldn't be cut off from the rest of the Linux universe completely like you are with some of these projects like Android?
Ok now I'm getting tired, have you even read what OpenMoko is? What you're saying is kind of the whole point of OpenMoko, to bring the Linux world/desktop to mobile phone devices.
Proprietary Linux application development sucks, and it just seems like a lot of these companies want you to throw your heart and soul at their Linux Application Island, instead of communicating and co-existing in the rest of the Linux ecosystem by using standards and such.
OpenMoko is in no way proprietary. You're way out of bounds brother, read, learn, speak. That's the proper way of doing it.
Well I'm not saying this from my experience. This comes from the official site.
Under the topic "How usable is it"
As the hacker's dream toy: it is fully functional. As a GSM phone: some people have been using it to receive and place phone calls and SMS for months, but with currently shipping software the battery life is only one day. As a GPS device: critical bugs have been ironed out and there is nice software to know where you are using OpenStreetMap. As an alarm clock, media player, internet browser, game console, email reader and contacts manager: software is not stable yet.
Either way I've had phones that lasted 48 hours, I've had phones that lasted less and I've had phones that lasted longer. For me 48 hours doesn't cut it. Sure it's perfectly usable, but it becomes a hassle. Perhaps it's just human nature to get spoiled but I know the technology exists so I'm not exactly asking for the impossible. I'll give them time, not to worry, I can always wait and purchase without compromising.:)
Every time I hear the word Freerunner my fingers tickle. I simply must have one, but until the battery life reaches at least 4 days standby I'll wait. Right now it needs a daily recharge and whilst it's an awesome toy daily recharging doesn't exactly cut it as mobile. On the other hand I understand that stabilizing the software is of course of higher priority (and perhaps even a contributing factor). Plus it's not like this battery is cutting edge in any way. I guess they will look for other more suitable battery variants in the future. So let's not forget: good things come to he who waits.
I'll tell you what though. The level of excitement for me was only slightly higher when we had BT training in the army. That means all the real and standard gear but blank rounds with laser equipment to simulate battle. However what will improve when playing paintball is the way to think in extremely stressing situations. This was for me more or less the same using paintball or BT equipment. But then again extremely stressing situations doesn't necessarily mean battle. Either way, fucking retarded way to prevent crime. This won't have any effect at all. And if it does I pity the germans for being so simple minded, which I still doubt they are.
His point stands, I think. A big "Fuck you guys" is gonna get you on the shitlist of pretty much any judge, court, or (probably) jury.
I'm sorry, you're wrong. The attitude of the person has to be kept separate from the crime commited. The crime must be treated unbiased. The law doesn't say "It's illegal to break copyright laws, and if you're a bit of a middleman it's illegal if you have a nasty attitude, otherwise it's ok". In Sweden (which I guess differs from the states in this sense as you seem to think that everything works as it does in the US) you should be able to flip off the judge and shit on his desk if you want. You'll get sentenced for indecent exposure but this should have absolutely no impact on the initial trial. That's called a fair trial.
I can sue you for anything under any law no matter the alleged "crime", that's fundamental. The problem is Sweden. Our shit-in-the-pants nation is so scared of international friction that nobody expected any other initial outcome for the TBP trials. The sentence however has been appealed and will most likely be tried in the Swedish surpreme court as well. Whatever "standard" this trial set is definetly going challenged. Still EU is not US. Just because it passed in Sweden it doesn't make it any EU "standard" by default, and if the judge would consider this as an important factor he's wrong and should be prosecuted. Dutch law is dutch law and Swedish law is swedish law. A criminal in Sweden is not a criminal in Holland until he's trialed and sentenced in Holland. Period.
No, he's right. The behaviour of the sites in question has a huge impact on the outcome...
Oh is he now? I would very much like to see what you're basing this "fact" on. Most likely your only references are other American trials, but prove me wrong and I'll stand corrected.
There's a slight difference. And the copyright laws aren't really *that* different in Sweden when compared to the Netherlands.
If you had any idea what you were talking about you'd know that the question is not about breaking or not breaking copyright laws, the question is about assisting in breaking copyright laws. This doesn't exist everywhere, Sweden included, I would know as I'm a Swede.
I'll admit I don't know much about Dutch law, but what I do know is that it resembles Swedish law more than American law as both countries are very social democratic. I don't intend to flamebait but seriously, the world doesn't spin around the US. Read, learn, understand, then speak. I hate to make this about the US but you and your ignorant assumptions drive people into it. Stereotyping is bad, statistics are facts.
There's a difference between the Mininova defense and the TPB defense:
Why is this modded +5 insightful!? The trials take/took place in different countries, which naturally don't hold the same laws. That is the only difference that matters as equal crimes will be treated differently in different countries.
Don't forget the packet injection vulnerability which opens after removing the above mentioned protection system. Even though this can be used to deploy viruses it usually creates a bot for 9 months. At first you'll get occasional and relatively harmless I/O errors, and in particular after morning boot ups. However it's worth noting that this bot severely hogs the system at a high exponential rate in relation to its uptime.
Slashdot Mirror
So the fact that more and more devs went to GNOME was a nonissue? Not quite. The pressure from KDE came for a reason, and when GNOME was actually becoming equal to KDE it became clear. GNOME was following a winning strategy, and of course it was the GPL license that was responsible for a lot of the success GNOME had. Don't ignore the importance of competition. If Trolltech didn't feel threatened they would have never changed license.
Please read the history. It was made GPL due to the pressure partly caused by the GPL licensed GNOME/GTK. This was long before Nokia was even in the picture. Read this so you know what I'm talking about.
The first two versions of Qt had only two flavours: Qt/X11 for Unix and Qt/Windows for the Windows platform. The Windows platform was only available under the proprietary license which meant free/open source applications written in Qt for X11 could not be ported to Windows without purchasing the QPL edition. In the end of 2001, Trolltech released Qt 3.0 which added support for the Mac OS X platform. The Mac OS X support was available only in the proprietary license, until June 2003, where Trolltech released Qt 3.2 with Mac OS X support available under the GPL.
In 2002 members of the KDE on Cygwin project began porting the GPL licensed Qt/X11 code base to Windows.[18] This was in response to Trolltech's refusal to license Qt/Windows under the GPL on the grounds that Windows was not a free software/open source platform.[19][20] The project achieved reasonable success although it never reached production quality.
This was resolved when Trolltech released Qt/Windows 4 under the GPL in June 2005. Qt 4 now supports the same set of platforms in the free software/open source editions as in the proprietary edition, so it is now possible to create GPL-licensed free/open source applications using Qt on all supported platforms.
That horrible GNOME/GTK of yours drove Trolltech into relicensing Qt to GPL. Thus Qt, and even Linux, wouldn't even be close to where it is today without GNOME. Say what you want about Ubuntu, but it's a fact that FOSS (and in particular Linux) awareness has grown immensely due to its contributions, and I doubt Kubuntu is to thank for this. It's a question of flavor, and I like to have options. Both projects thrive from eachother and the constant "battles" drive devs to find out new creative ways in order to be "unique" and innovative. Sure there's an advantage to cooperation, but without competition there's no pressure.
... end user experience and may end up making p2p useless for anyone except hardcore.
This reminds me of the IRC era before Napster. There was plenty of sharing to go around, and this was using far thinner internet tubes than today. Back then this was considered pretty hardcore, and even today it requires far more knowledge than uTorrent + TPB. However my comparison is not entirely fair. The internet generation holds far more general computer knowledge than the pre internet generation. Unless the hassle is extreme (which I doubt will be necessary) I'm sure that the internet generations equivalent to IRC filesharers will be more than the latter.
But then again, we're both speculating since it's too complex to be foreseen.
Changing protocols is a far quicker procedure than banning, as proven. Thus the mouse has an advantage in this cat and mouse game.
Well the action was to be taken from the ISPs side, so we're back on square one. They don't want a court verdict to be necessary.
You're semi right. It's not Slashdot. It's kids on internet that haven't yet learned these rules. Also since ignoring these rules require less work they tend to become infectious to others. However internet lingo in all fairness, I don't really care if someone uses bold instead of italic when emphasising a word, or even spelling incorrectly. These are acceptable mistakes. But misquoting is unacceptable and it questions the whole liability of the text. To me, as a reader, using quotation incorrectly would be as confusing as swapping two letters with eachother. Some rules can be bent, some rules can't. If you want people to read what you write it's a good idea not to lie, even unintentionally.
Because it's a qoute. You see there are rules to any language and one of them in the English language is regarding quoting. When you quote a source the text written must be matching every word of the source. When the quote contains unnecessary text to the topic at hand you cut out that part and replace it with three periods. This indicates that there's a piece missing from the original quote, in case e.g. someone is questioning the quote at hand. So you see quoting is not interpreting, and must be, at all times, matching every word of the source.
Turn to side B for the next lesson.
From what I know, OpenMoko did seem more "open", but then I don't understand why it has to be under the banner of a single phone instead of a general "helping Linux programs scale better so many programs can be easily run on small devices" project. But hey, if they want to gather around the Freerunner and such because it's an open phone, that's fine I guess, but it just seems a bit skewed to one company. =P
My God you have no idea what you're talking about so I'm ending the conversation. Seriously if you take me for an asshole then go ahead. It would prove that I'm wasting my time anyway. If you're any wiser then please read what the hell OpenMoko and Freerunner are and then read your post again. Be prepared to either painfully cry or painfully laugh though. Me -- I'm still trying to decide and right now it just feels painfull.
You don't happen to be the former CEO of Lehman Brothers?
You know such prohibiting laws would just drive people into cooking their own CPUs in their cellar bathtub and then sneak them through underground tunnels to your local vendor.
I mean being... against socialism and all is not just about exiling the commies...
That's called uniting a nation through a common enemy thus making them susceptable to manipulation. Every major ideology works just fine if it would be implemented and practiced properly. But none is, due to the "human factor", thus we have failed capitalism and failed socialism. The ignorant merely frown and point to the other side whilst the wise understand the difficulties of any side.
All these different open source mobile device projects re-inventing the wheel saddens me.
Well if the people who invented the wheel refuse to share the secrets one needs to reinvent it and spread it so that it never has to be invented again. Your anger lies within the proprietary sector, not the FOSS sector that are desperately trying to straighten out the mess.
GTK and QT should be made so scalable that they should be made capable of running on mobile devices without being memory hogs, apps should be made scalable too so they can run on small screens and not have to be rewritten, or with very minimal rewriting, and everything should run on X.org perhaps configured some for performance.
This makes me doubt you're even following the embedding progresses so I don't even know what to respond to this.
Basically, I want to just run standard Linux GUI and command line programs so I can have *all* the same apps available to me, even if I had to scroll around because some app wasn't the "mini" version, you still wouldn't be cut off from the rest of the Linux universe completely like you are with some of these projects like Android?
Ok now I'm getting tired, have you even read what OpenMoko is? What you're saying is kind of the whole point of OpenMoko, to bring the Linux world/desktop to mobile phone devices.
Proprietary Linux application development sucks, and it just seems like a lot of these companies want you to throw your heart and soul at their Linux Application Island, instead of communicating and co-existing in the rest of the Linux ecosystem by using standards and such.
OpenMoko is in no way proprietary. You're way out of bounds brother, read, learn, speak. That's the proper way of doing it.
Daily recharge is a bit harshly put.
Well I'm not saying this from my experience. This comes from the official site.
Under the topic "How usable is it"
As the hacker's dream toy: it is fully functional. As a GSM phone: some people have been using it to receive and place phone calls and SMS for months, but with currently shipping software the battery life is only one day. As a GPS device: critical bugs have been ironed out and there is nice software to know where you are using OpenStreetMap. As an alarm clock, media player, internet browser, game console, email reader and contacts manager: software is not stable yet.
Either way I've had phones that lasted 48 hours, I've had phones that lasted less and I've had phones that lasted longer. For me 48 hours doesn't cut it. Sure it's perfectly usable, but it becomes a hassle. Perhaps it's just human nature to get spoiled but I know the technology exists so I'm not exactly asking for the impossible. I'll give them time, not to worry, I can always wait and purchase without compromising. :)
Yeah and you're the mature one, right?
Haha exactly my thought. But my initial thought was, "which ones don't and why?".
Every time I hear the word Freerunner my fingers tickle. I simply must have one, but until the battery life reaches at least 4 days standby I'll wait. Right now it needs a daily recharge and whilst it's an awesome toy daily recharging doesn't exactly cut it as mobile. On the other hand I understand that stabilizing the software is of course of higher priority (and perhaps even a contributing factor). Plus it's not like this battery is cutting edge in any way. I guess they will look for other more suitable battery variants in the future. So let's not forget: good things come to he who waits.
I'll tell you what though. The level of excitement for me was only slightly higher when we had BT training in the army. That means all the real and standard gear but blank rounds with laser equipment to simulate battle. However what will improve when playing paintball is the way to think in extremely stressing situations. This was for me more or less the same using paintball or BT equipment. But then again extremely stressing situations doesn't necessarily mean battle. Either way, fucking retarded way to prevent crime. This won't have any effect at all. And if it does I pity the germans for being so simple minded, which I still doubt they are.
His point stands, I think. A big "Fuck you guys" is gonna get you on the shitlist of pretty much any judge, court, or (probably) jury.
I'm sorry, you're wrong. The attitude of the person has to be kept separate from the crime commited. The crime must be treated unbiased. The law doesn't say "It's illegal to break copyright laws, and if you're a bit of a middleman it's illegal if you have a nasty attitude, otherwise it's ok". In Sweden (which I guess differs from the states in this sense as you seem to think that everything works as it does in the US) you should be able to flip off the judge and shit on his desk if you want. You'll get sentenced for indecent exposure but this should have absolutely no impact on the initial trial. That's called a fair trial.
I can sue you for anything under any law no matter the alleged "crime", that's fundamental. The problem is Sweden. Our shit-in-the-pants nation is so scared of international friction that nobody expected any other initial outcome for the TBP trials. The sentence however has been appealed and will most likely be tried in the Swedish surpreme court as well. Whatever "standard" this trial set is definetly going challenged. Still EU is not US. Just because it passed in Sweden it doesn't make it any EU "standard" by default, and if the judge would consider this as an important factor he's wrong and should be prosecuted. Dutch law is dutch law and Swedish law is swedish law. A criminal in Sweden is not a criminal in Holland until he's trialed and sentenced in Holland. Period.
No, he's right. The behaviour of the sites in question has a huge impact on the outcome...
Oh is he now? I would very much like to see what you're basing this "fact" on. Most likely your only references are other American trials, but prove me wrong and I'll stand corrected.
There's a slight difference. And the copyright laws aren't really *that* different in Sweden when compared to the Netherlands.
If you had any idea what you were talking about you'd know that the question is not about breaking or not breaking copyright laws, the question is about assisting in breaking copyright laws. This doesn't exist everywhere, Sweden included, I would know as I'm a Swede.
I'll admit I don't know much about Dutch law, but what I do know is that it resembles Swedish law more than American law as both countries are very social democratic. I don't intend to flamebait but seriously, the world doesn't spin around the US. Read, learn, understand, then speak. I hate to make this about the US but you and your ignorant assumptions drive people into it. Stereotyping is bad, statistics are facts.
There's a difference between the Mininova defense and the TPB defense:
Why is this modded +5 insightful!? The trials take/took place in different countries, which naturally don't hold the same laws. That is the only difference that matters as equal crimes will be treated differently in different countries.
-1, self centred.
"I've never heard of a robot attacking somebody like this," he said.
Except the robot didn't attack him. He accidentally attacked himself using the robot. It might as well have been a gun or a knife or anything really.
...without properly checking the power supply beforehand.
Don't forget the packet injection vulnerability which opens after removing the above mentioned protection system. Even though this can be used to deploy viruses it usually creates a bot for 9 months. At first you'll get occasional and relatively harmless I/O errors, and in particular after morning boot ups. However it's worth noting that this bot severely hogs the system at a high exponential rate in relation to its uptime.
Ok I think this cow is milked dry now.