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German Gov To Ban Paintballing After Shooting
whoever57 writes "In response to the school shooting in March in which 16 people were killed, the German Government
plans to ban all games in which players shoot at each other with pellets. The rationale for this is that 'paintball trivializes violence and risks lowering the threshold for committing violent acts.' Fines could be up to 5,000 euros."
Come on Germany, you used to be cool.
Haven't these people learned that they are just going to cause a much bigger problem then they are trying to solve? It saddens me to see how they are going after everything but the cause of it. Banning paintballing isn't going to solve a thing, stuff like this is still going to happen. Next thing you know they are going to try and ban all FPS games over there. Get to the root of the problem, not something they "think" is the cause.
What the hell,now when people play music too loud, do they have to fucking walk around with their index fingers on their lips. Dont get me wrong, it is a tragedy about the shooting, but this is going a little too far.
This shows the gun registration laws work! If only we made it illegal to shoot people in the first place, all our problems would be solved. Oh wait...
But I will say I find this entirely in keeping with the policy of the German government. They have similarly ridiculous laws in place regarding video games and other entertainment, so while this new one seems utterly idiotic, it is at least a logical extension of what they've already done.
At this rate, they'll be banning soccer next. Wouldn't want those hooligans "lowering the threshold for violent acts", now, would we?
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
I hope this goes thru.
FOR LULZ.
This is sure to succeed, just like banning the swastika has completely removed any trace of right-wing hate groups in Germany.
Guns? Cars? Hookers? Cigarretes? Diseases? Stupidity?
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
From what i understand some places in Europe already ban anything that even looks like a gun, such as replicas.
Idiots.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Does the German government actually think that people learn violence from games? Violence is part of human instinct. We have evolved so that we have a tendency to hurt other people. No amount of censorship is going to fix that.
When I was 15 or so, I wanted to play paintball. My parents were initially resistant to the idea. They thought it was militant and would be a poor influence on me. I learned quickly that it's damned well easy to get shot and the welts those things leave don't let the memory fade. Rather than thinking, "Hey self, let's go join the army and shoot people for real," I thought "If those were real bullets, I'd be dead inside of 5 minutes along with all of my friends."
So, yes, I did learn a thing or two about taking down mansized targets with horribly inaccurate, slow moving projectiles with no ability to penetrate cover. What I also learned was that I am not invincible, I play by the same rules as everyone else, and I want to be nowhere near real bullets fired in anger.
boys will be boys.
Psssst! Hey man, want some splat? I'll get you freaky painted.
2 EUR a ball, 20 for a baker's dozen.
Just don't share a dirty gun with your friends.
Although I am naturally quite uneasy about a German government demanding such intrusive power over people's lives with the explicit purpose of shaping their very thoughts, I am pleased that at least they'll all be unarmed. The last time a German government went mad with power, their military might soon controlled most of Europe, deep into Russia, north Africa, the Atlantic... But if they no longer have any projectile weapons, next time they won't manage to conquer anyone except France!
It's law of the jungle as it always has been. Just now they usually take your money instead of the rabbit you just killed.
I guess that's fair, in a country that "trivializes thinking."
All flatware will be replaced with sporks, and, after an adjustment period, the sporks will be replaced with rubber-tipped chopsticks. Also, the ! will be replaced with the pipe|.
Years later, I amused myself with computer games, including a fair number of first-person shooters. Spent many an enjoyable hour playing Descent and Quake 3. Descent with the PC hooked up to my stereo was awesome -- those fireballs on the screen looked pretty damn good, and, by God, the booming from the speakers was way cool.
I'm 44 now and haven't killed anyone yet, but who knows, eh, what kind of violent rage was set into motion by all that mock fighting, only waiting to turn me into a murderous monster like that kid in Winnenden, Germany? OMG, I'm a ticking time bomb!
*shakes head in disbelief*
Instead of (correctly) complaining that "correlation != causation" or "this won't work!!", could we use examples like these to promote science education?
Will banning paintball cause a decrease in school shootings? Did you know that's a scientifically tractable question?
When a tragedy like this occurs, the public demands a political reaction. More education on the only known way to get at causation - the scientific method - might cause people to demand political reactions that work.
Folded sheets of notebook paper in the shape of SMGs? Or rubber bands over thumb and forefinger?
Just holding a chicken finger in your hand in a vaguely gun-like silhouette?
I imagine it will end in amputations...
Just reading the headline, I thought the case was that someone had been seriously injured or killed. That would've at least made some sense.
This doesn't.
We are all God's parents.
Funny, though, they don't seem to be banning cars.
How many people have been killed in Germany by cars?
"And now they're thinking about banning toys guns, and they're going to keep the fucking real ones!"
Should they start playing real guns instead?
"The rationale for this is that 'paintball trivializes violence and risks lowering the threshold for committing violent acts.'"
Oppressive laws that limit personal responsibility and undermine rational thinking trivializes society and risks lowering the threshold for legislating more inane laws that drive people to violent acts.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
then only outlaws will paint balls.
I agree, while i haven't been to Germany, i can vouch that the US legal system is fucked
Can't be too fucked, since you have a right to say that it is. There's plenty of countries where you would get beaten up for just daring to communicate outside of your assigned channels, and would get killed for condemning the government.
Right now, the biggest failure of the legal system is a ton of stupid laws throwing a lot of people into jail probably where fines might be appropriate. But... cash strapped states, knowing that voters will despise any tax increase, have figured out that jeez, building new prisons every year costs a lot of money. On the federal level, the only way Obama will get national health care is if he can structure it in a way that caps medicare.... because, people aren't going to want to pay that bill. Sure, politicians have historically borrowed their way out of it, but with USA debt approaching its limits, and states essentially with no credit, particularly California, New Jersey and New York, the level of government spending is going to have to be aligned to what citizens are willing to pay, and in America, its not a lot.
This is my sig.
Here's how it usually goes down with these situations, aside from the case where the person isn't a sociopath:
1) Guy gets marginalized and picked on.
2) School knows about it and does nothing.
3) Guy gets subjected to violence.
4) The authorities do nothing despite the basic fact that we know from common sense and scientific observation that eventually an organism will lash out in self-defense if not protected.
5) Guy may defend himself, at which rate the authorities will come down hard on him because as we all know "violence never solves anything."
6) The authorities will earnestly pat themselves on the back as guardians of civilization for having stopped a victim from exercising force in self-defense.
7) Guy lashes out with disproportionate force because pent up frustration made his temper 5x more explosive it would have been if causality had been allowed to run its course between the attackers and the victim.
8) The authorities will claim it couldn't have been stopped.
Violence solves things splendidly with bullies. In the early 1960s, victims of bullying were allowed to beat the shit out of the bully, and the authorities didn't even think about taking up for the bully unless it was so extreme as to be a violent crime.
You want less violent shootings? Let teenage boys shoot guns (real guns), play video games and beat the shit out of each other when one attacks the other. When violence usually brings more violence back on the perpetrator, people usually are less inclined to use violence. Violent people who are quick to use force are not wired like normal people, and the best way to restrain them is to create a culture that will respond to them violently when they act out.
How German. Citizens can't move a muscle till Abwehr agents point. But, then oh my the Panzer divisions start rolling. Let's hear-it for Gub'mnt violence as well-ordered as a BMW 5-speed. 1-2-3 Seig-Heil mon Komrades.
World War II was a bad thing. We all make mistakes. The people that made them are dead. You don't have to be pussies for the rest of your national life just because your ancestors went overboard.
Probably in another 10 years, everyone from the WWII generation will be completely dead, and then from there you can hire some PR guys to turn around that whole swastika problem around for you...
But, in the meantime, at some point, you just have to say, "Hey, everyone, look, we know that it was wrong to for us to start World War II, but you do have to admit that when we declared war on
-everybody-, it was pretty bad ass. The Fuhrer was pretty psycho but the one ball that he had left must have been pretty big to do that."
This is my sig.
On the one hand I understand this, it's the nature of the political beast: politicians need to be perceived as trying to do something about problems. They need to do this or risk not being re-elected, and they need to do it better than the other guy. This creates a one-up-manship which becomes ridiculous in time. This is ridiculous. Just like banning violent games was ridiculous. Germany, you are become a laughing stock for this and similar.
"I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
We'll have to go paintballing before shooting then.
Germany: Great Idea, control the population by restricting personal freedom. How did that work out for you in the past?
Not taking a position here, but if they really believed in the psychological effects of this, shouldn't sport hunting be banned as well? It's not shooting at other people, but it certainly trivializes firearm usage, and actually consists of killing a living being.
yes, i know the "original" is fake too, but i couldn't resist.
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
Who's the leading manufacturer of BB Guns in Germany? Looks like I"ll be investing...
..that they have been shooting the wrong people.
Just don't mention the war...
This is just the same approach for problems with have no clue how to solve. The rationale of this is just plain silly. 1) 'paintball trivializes violence and risks lowering the threshold for committing violent acts.'. Well, what is next, ban video games? They go in the same line with shooting people. 2) Is not easier to ban the real problem, GUNS?! No, no, no, no, the real problem is the human being itself. Nothing we can do about it.
... from my welted, paint-covered hands!
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Only the criminals will have paintball guns.
the Germans are fucking nuts. Banning paintball? Oh yeah, that will really change a violent society. Ever hear of the ancient Greek term "catharsis"? WE NEED MORE PAINTBALL NUMB-NUTS!
Violent movies are just as dangerous. Anything that glorifies violence as a way to resolve problems or seek justice will give ideas to someone who is mentally ill or psychologically unstable. To solve this issue you'll have to violate citizen's civil liberties related to free speech, privacy and physical freedom. Once you maintain an iron grip on the freedom of expression and the ability of people to move around in the community these problems with random acts of violence should be significantly reduced. As for a skyrocketing suicide problem that would result in these changes, I don't have a way to solve that.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
... banned guns in Germany?
I host the server in Munich. AM I NEXT?!! I guess I won't say anything this time.
German Laser Tag.
'paintball trivializes violence and risks lowering the threshold for committing violent acts.'
Does paintball also trivialize suicide? If he woke up, went out, shot 15 people, and came home for lunch, then these corrupt politicians might have a case.
Based on last years death rates in the US
Heart disease: 652,091
Cancer: 559,312
Traffic accident: 41,059
Murder(including non-firearm related): 16,692
We clearly need to ban cheeseburgers, cigarettes, and cars as well.
Hikery.net - The best hiking site ever. Made by yours truly.
crazy lawmakers taking away my fake killing games....I guess NOW we have to resort to using actual guns for our fun. But in all seriousness, This is about as dumb as those ads they played in the UK, you know the ones with the little kids playing air soft and one of them has a real gun....those stupid ads. I'm an avid air softer(used to play paintball....but then i saw the light) and a weep for my German brethren. Hang in there, and hope your gov't figures out its actually fun to play paintball and air soft.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
only outlaws will have unstained clothes.
This ain't rocket surgery.
As a German, I'd like to apologise for the continuing idiocy of my country. Granted, in this case, it doesn't actually affect anyone except for us, but still.
Let's ban it all at once, including paint too!
So we can have all white walls, which will be a lot better for our children ...
Too much colors can never be good! Bring Hercules & CGI back ! Start the petitions!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
While they are engaging in all this moral spelunking why do the Germans not just go ahead and ban karting which 'trivializes' the dangers of driving. Or ban parachuting which 'trivializes' the dangers of gravity. Or while they are at it, they could ban fun which 'trivializes' life in Germany these days which the government wants to make as dull as possible until you are shot to death by a psychotic teenager.
Instead of all these ridiculous restrictions and rules, I have a better idea.
(1) Convict parents for the crimes committed by their underage children; parents are the legal guardians and should be fully responsible for what their children do. (Likewise, if their underage children are crime victims, convict the parents as well, since they obviously didn't supervise them carefully enough.)
(2) If someone commits a crime with your gun, you should be an accessory to the crime. It doesn't matter whether you stored it "properly"--if it got used in a crime, it probably wasn't stored well enough.
The mayor of Toronto banned airgun target ranges as a way to stop the barrage of drug gang killings. He realizes that his paycheck would bounce if the drug gangs that bring billions into his city were destroyed, so he supports any knee-jerk response that wastes the resources that would actually solve the problem. It's the only way communists know how to keep an economy running.
slashdot could at some point bring a good news for the german people ;)
we have an online petition against internet censorship going that gathered 60.000 people to sign in like 4 days ;)
so not all german people are willing government idiots...
mostly the people dont know better... they've been told so much shit by the media in the last months they actually believe that stuff like first person shooters or paintball or whatever are responsible.
and then there are a lot people who simply dont care, because neither videogames nor paintball effect them.
Remember where "the" (now disbarred) jack thompson and other idiot tried to ban game after columbine or other shooting ? Same reaction ehre. Plus *SOME* politics *NNED* to show they are doing soemthing to their voters. The combo of the two push them to ban something which is more akin to a game of coyboy-and-indian or theif-and-policemen between grown up boys. Some of us beside rolling their eye in their orbit, ask if the fine will also apply to YOUNG BOY/GIRL playing the two aforementionned game with their finger mimicing a gun and yelling "paw paw paw" to imit gun shoots.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I am anti hand guns because there is enough evidence connecting hand gun ownership to deaths by it. (Will NOT provide references.) The more hand guns owned in a society, the more casualties. The US as the predominant example have developed into a society where raising your voice is considered more threatening and rude than bearing fire arms. (However I am fascinated by the technology used in fire arms.)
I also have never engaged in paint balling. I probably never will.
But, I see absolutely NO connection between playing paint ball and the killing of people with fire arms. I take Mrs. Merkel wants to make a political gesture in showing she actually cares about the killings and that she is taking the matter seriously. If at voting sensibility is completely absent, the Germans are screwed. I wonder whether a ban of such a social activity does not violate other, more important laws.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
I've tagged this scapegoat. But I wonder if it is correct, since a scapegoat is normally a person or at least a group of persons. "lightningrod" any better?
Tim Kretschmer had been treated for depression. I cannot confirm if he was given the usual drugs but that seems highly likely.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5898272.ece
This Times article makes it sound like it was his fault that he shot people because he "broke off the treatment". In fact it could be the huge rebound effects that there are from stopping Pharma drug usage. See http://drugawareness.org
This is huge Pharma corruption also involving the German government where these shootings are covered up so Pharma drug sales are not effected. See http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/
You don't even need that. In fact, such jingoistic propaganda is unlikely to work in most modern democracies, absent real attacks such as 9/11 (and even then, the effect seems quite limited). Our people have lived without external threats for so long that they tend to be more paranoid about their own government and fellow citizens than they are about other nations. No - if you really want to bring the people to the bidding of their leaders, just tell them you'll keep them safe from misfortune and failure. Turn the government into their surrogate mother and you'll turn them into children - unable to even contemplate resisting your control.
Boxing? Teaching folks how to beat each other senseless with their hands. Fencing? Teaching folks how to make human shish kabob. Martial arts? Teaching humans how to imitate how animals kill ("Hah! Tiger style!").
How come Kung Fu doesn't have a "human style?" The closest I've seen would be "Drunken boxer style" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_boxing. And that should be called "Saturday night in a pub in Ireland style."
Actually, this proposed law is all just election posturing for elections in Germany this year.
Great way to make friends with the younger voters: Take away their weekend hobby.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
The world has learned what an armed populace ignoring it's government outright evilness could do to other countries. (Have you too thought about Iraq now?)
Germans are afraid of being evil. And to the outside world especially, as the world has taught them a lesson recently.
When things are illegal, people who deal in them will use illegal means of dispute resolution, in part because those are the only ones available. If you and I have a business dispute over legal business and we just can't resolve it, well then one of us can take the other to court, and resolve it there. However if we are dealing in illegal business, we really can't be doing that since, well, we'd get arrested and all that. Thus violence is a more common means of resolution. Now when you have a large, and well funded empire going on, then the violence level increases that much more. You have the means to get lots of weapons, and the reason to use them.
Well legalization really does take that all away. The reason is that you just can't compete effectively with the legal businesses, unless you set up your own. If you try to run a business designed around the way you did it when things were illegal, you'll go broke.
I mean take alcohol as a good example. There is no widespread distribution of moonshine. That isn't to say there aren't people who don't occasionally make alcohol illegally (it is controlled and you have to pay taxes on it and such) but it is rare, and localized. There's no way to make any real money. After all customers won't come seeking you, since you aren't offering a unique product, you are offering something they can get at any Safeway. You can't distribute your product at retail centers, so no widespread sales. You can't charge a lot since the only thing you can offer is a lower price. Thus there's all of no money to be made on it illegally. You either go legit or you go out of business.
Now I'm not saying legalization doesn't have downsides, no action is without cost, but to argue that legalizing wouldn't reduce violence is stupid, and shows a massive ignorance of the prohibition in the US and basic economic realities. You get Philip Morris and the like in on selling drugs and you'll see the cartels dropping like flies.
First, we have elections in Europe and in Germany this year. Second, Germany is governed by a coalition of the two bigger parties (it is called great coalition, however the meaning is more like big coalition). So if any of those politicians who are part of this big coalition says something it is related to the government. However, this does not mean that hey have a consensus on that issue. And before they do not have a consens on the subject nothing will happen.
Some of this coalition want to ban guns in households, other want to have better locks at the doors for weapon lockers. Others want these guns only available at shooting clubs and their firing range. And others want to prohibit paintball.
An official of the German police said that this is ridiculous and that they would never be able to enforce it, because you would have to control every forrest and those playing cops and robbers with toy guns can go free, but the paintballs have to be confiscated.
What the politicians really try to do with this bullshit is, to make sure nobody asks why these school shooters pull the trigger.
No - if you really want to bring the people to the bidding of their leaders, just tell them you'll keep them safe from misfortune and failure. Turn the government into their surrogate mother and you'll turn them into children - unable to even contemplate resisting your control.
...such an eloquent description of the Nanny State. People cry to the their government, "protect me, mommy. Make the boogie men go away".
In these dangerous times when our children are receiving blunt traumas from even their classmates in ever increasing numbers due to violent games that desensitise our children to violence, especially video games that are so easily and cheaply available to even the youngest of children, I urge you all to join PAWAM.
Parents Against Whack-A-Mole is a non-profit organisation dedicate to protecting our children from the modern depravity and cruelty that is now pandemic in today's society. Membership is free, but, even if you don't wish to join, please make a donation today so that we can continue to help those suffering the effects of violent desensitisation.
Yours Faithfully
Tristan Wibberley (General Secretary - PAWAM)
. . . especially the bit about the police, which I just read here: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0,1518,623530,00.html
I think that this law would get, excuse me, "shot down" at the German Supreme Court (Bundesgerichtshof).
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Antidepressants cause school shootings. The media will never tell you that though. There's lots of money in antidepressants.
The last time they tried that it was 2003 after another shooting spree. Our supreme court held up the constitution and said "Fuck you". This barking for a ban of paintball comes in line with a "ban for firearms", "ban for violent video games", "ban for underage drinking", "ban on drugs" and guess what time it is? Right! It's election time. Some CDU douche even said that violent video games equal drugs and child pornography in their "bad effects on society". Now there is some grand illusion for you. In fall there will be several big elections and all these reactionary bullshitters are piling up hills from which to shout their election programs from.
Who cares, I at least don't. I know our politicians are completely full of shit and can't be trusted. The only thing left to do is vote Pirate Party. More and more people are starting to wake up.
They may as well also ban all war games, all war films. Get rid of toy guns and toy soldiers. Stop recruitment to the army, air force and navy. Take those guns away from the police. While we're at it we might get rid of books which refer to war, guns, violence or anything else which might put the idea into the head of someone reading/watching it. Knives should be included too. Get them out of the kitchen. Knitting needles can be used in place of knives. Garden forks, metal bars, loose rocks and stones. We should get rid of saws, axes, hammers, drills. Cars are an obvious aid to violence - witness what happened in Holland recently when a car was driven into the crowd waiting to see the Dutch Royal Family. Needless to say, children will no longer be able to play cowboys and Indians (or whatever other violent games they might play).
But that doesn't go anywhere near far enough. All violent thoughts and utterances should be banned. You will no longer be allowed to hate or dislike anybody or anything because of where that might lead. And since liking something implies a degree of dislike of that which is not encompassed by the liked thing, we must ban liking things too. No preference for anything should be shown by anyone.
Pretty soon the only citizens who will be acceptable will bear a striking resemblance to a lump of lard. No expression of feeling, no outward emotion, no desire, no passion. You Linux nutters will be gone forever as will the Windows Zealots. No more hype of anything, advertisements banned lest it whip up a frenzy of support for this or that.
Really, we're all going to die. There is no way out, and these governments are trying to make what little time the majority of us have on this planet a misery for the sake of postponing the death of some vanishingly small minority of victims.
I never thought this would sound radical, but I say, keep the paint ball! I don't even play the game and don't want to, but if there is one thing which makes me feel violent, it is the excessive zeal with which our politicians seek to kerb our happiness and remove what little choice we still have left.
By banning blood in video games, paint balling, etc they're taking the fun out of Germany and turning it into Nazi Germany without using an army.
Once again, someone has a BRILLIANT idea to ban paintballing and such sports...because that's going to solve the problem, right?
It seems we have idiots making these laws, who don't really seem to be in touch with reality.
They can ban whatever they like, psycho's will still exist and find a way to kill, if they're dead set on it.
You're not allowed to own guns in the UK, same goes for Germany i'm assuming. We still have people getting shot (low as the number may be, definately lower than America) and increasingly we see people stabbed to death. So what now? Let's ban knives!
I honestly wouldn't be surprised.
This is in the news here since two days ago and basically backfired big time allready, with even the police union turning to the CDU and saying 'totally hairbrained stupid idea'. Particularly hilarious is the reaction of one of those supporting the programm in an spiegel-online interview from yesterday (it's in the last fourth of the video - in German though - but you can catch the tone nonetheless). The guy loses his cool the instant he is asked about it, having been bugged the entire day about it. Very funny indeed and the comentary of the video doesn't stint on snide and whitty remarks on this political botch either.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Why ban paintballing, when the solution is to ban civilians from possessing arms. Oh wait, that would mean less profits for the arms industry ...
davecb5620@gmail.com
Might as well just start rounding them up now. Making paintball and airsoft (Or SoftAir as they call it for reasons beyond understanding) illegal only serves to criminalize players. Because we all know, making something illegal for no good reason will not deter people in the least. (Look at marijuana.)
General rule of thumb: If no one in their right mind can think of a reason it should be illegal, your law is STUPID.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
I know that Germany isn't actually going to go on a world conquest kick again any time soon, I know that the French military would be able to handle an unarmed opponent, and I thought that insinuating otherwise would be enough to make it clear that I was kidding.
And although I haven't explicitly read that the German army still has guns, I would never have guessed otherwise. Do gun bans ever actually ban guns? Gun control is generally for the hoi polloi, not for men who take the leaders' orders.
Oh, elections coming up again?
This, like the computer games bashing, is just a political thing. They want the voters to see that they do something about it. Germany has lots of old people and those are the people that are often politically engaged, uninformed and very conservative - and they totally buy this crap.
"Violent computer games? Toy guns? The internet? Ban all that new stuff. We don't need it and it only causes harm. Increase of old-age pension? Hell yea!"
They recently built up internet censorship to increase their votes and now this. Don't politicians have anything important to do? They used to say stupid things to get votes, but now they actually go a step further and pass stupid laws to get more votes.
I wonder how they didn't ban martial arts yet. Probably keeping something for the next elections.
Don't forget to add it'll help get rid of the kiddy fiddling perverts and "think of the children". Don't know if the trick works in the EU, but it works great in the USA. They just trot Nancy Grace and a bunch of other talking heads to show the pic of some dead kid and say things like "If the police would have only been able to go after this scum, instead of having their hands tied by LIBERALS, this little kid would be alive! What is wrong with you, are you FOR kiddy fiddling perverts?" and the next day the congress critters can sit back and smile as the little old ladies call in their support for the next "anti pervert trust your government not to abuse you" law.
Don't really see it changing short of revolution though. Folks have gotten just too easy to manipulate with the combination of lousy public education and all their "information" being fed to them through the boob tube. Get the right talking heads to blather on in support of whatever draconian law you want and it is a slam dunk.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
All these strange demands (banning paintball, DNS-blocking of chilpornography, ...) by our politicians recently only have one reason:
2009 is an important election year in Germany ("Superwahljahr").
Even the police union is against such a law because it's BS.
German guy here.
I don't really want to contribute anything to this whole censorship-discussion, as I've really grown tired of it. After all, this kind of lunatic, random censorship is nothing special around here; just check out www.schnittberichte.com, a page listing all the cuts that had to be made to movies, games and even TV-Series to allow them to be released here. (It's a german page though).
What I really want to do is ask every American here to do me a favor. If we finally arrive at 1984, would you please bomb us? It would be much appreciated. I really don't want to live in the 4th Reich, where cars (drunks could drive them), videogames (they make you want to kill), paintball (just a combat simulation, really), pencils (makes kids want to stab people), penises (you rape women with it), farting (destroys the ozone layer) and everything else somehow related to "free will" (is that how it's called? I almost forgot) is illegal.
Thank you kindly in advance.
Yes, another fine product of the current german government. And yes, I am german, so I'm allowed to whine (and yes, I'm trying to change things).
The problem is that the current government in Germany is made up of people who are either incompetent or insane, and sometimes both. And when I say "insane", I actually do mean that in a clinical psychological sense. Our minister of the interior, who is pushing law after law which are almost all later found to be unconstitutional, is suffering from PTSD. His medical records are kept a secret. This is the same guy who says that if you've got nothing to hide, you couldn't possibly be opposed to all the new surveilance measures. Go figure.
Our (female) minister for family, education, etc. is the bitch behind the "STOP" sign and DNS redirection to fight child porn. You know, the thing that does absolutely nothhing against actual child abuse, but only tries very weakly to stop the display of pictures of same (i.e. at least two layers of abstraction away from the actual event). If you've followed her story even a little, you also have to doubt whether she's perfectly sane or not.
The list goes on with ministers of finance who were personally involved with some banks that crashed and likely prevented investigations until liabilities for the former owners (their friends) had expired, a minister of transportation who's trying to sell the state train system, at about 10% of its estimated worth, and a prime minister who very strongly stands for ... nothing. I don't think anyone on the streets of Germany could tell you what she stands for, what her policies are, or what the heck she's doing at all.
So that's Germany in 2009. Not so much different from the US in 2008, even to the point that it is election year. Except that we don't have an Obama to promise change. So elections will be very interesting.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Most weapons require an opposable thumb. Perhaps we should just have those removed at birth.
And what about these other "trivialized violence" examples?
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
It's like banning violent videogames. It'll never work for two reasons:
1. The people who 'easily transition' from something like Paintball to actual violence would just as easily transition from EATING PANCAKES to violence. It's because they're CRAZY.
2. There are lots of people who play Paintball and stuff to work off violent, base, tail-brain, impulses so they DON'T end up throttling nth stupid person they have to deal with today.
People are still going to do it, and it's going to get to the point where they have to start locking up multiple offenders. So, geniuses, what does it mean when you start locking up dozens of otherwise normal and upstanding citizens and there's STILL SHOOTINGS?
If you want to ban a sport that's responsible for violent behavior, ban RUGBY.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
I've played airsoft for years and I believe there aren't many direct connections between airsoft or paintball and real shooting. Instead of killing someone, the person simply sits down or walks away after being shot. Also, if you'd talk to someone that has been in the army and played airsoft, they'd say it's not comparable to even real combat imitation, everyone walks around 100m away from enemy, with no fear or being shot. IT'S A GAME.
On the other hand, in computer games you do "kill" someone, there's blood etc... Why not ban them?
They always have to go for the good stuff first, don't they?
Fencing - could lead to school slayings
Martial Arts - you never know when someone could go lethal weapon on you
Archery - snipers don't have to use guns
Add to the list if you've got one
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
The governing parties say paintball trivialises violence and risks lowering the threshold for committing violent acts.
Obviously Germans would be committing fewer violent acts if they didn't have paintball. I mean, just look at the first half of the twentieth century. Paintball was more popular than air when the Germans tried to take over the continent (twice!) and wiped out six million people. Now that paintball is waning in popularity, and played by maybe 1% of the population, the country has maybe 200 murders per year. It's good to see that the German government is familiar with history and is willing to be proactive about the salient issues.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
Jingoistic propaganda is unlikely to work in most modern democracies, absent real attacks such as 9/11 (and even then, the effect seems quite limited)
This may be the first time I've heard the effects of 9/11 and subsequent fearmongering described as "limited." The creation of a new cabinet department, two foreign wars, and a major change in national consciousness qualifies as limited now huh? Have we gotten into Newspeak already?
No, I am NOT an American
Evidently not.
wouldn't it make more sense to ban pistols from bedrooms?
From the article:
The teenager shot many of his victims in the head with his father's legally registered pistol. His father, a member of a shooting club, had 15 guns at home â" fourteen were locked in a gun closet as required by law but the pistol was in the bedroom.
This is just as insane as the dutch ban on magic mushrooms.
Paintball, at least in most of the places I've played, has devolved into an arms race to see who can spray the most paint.
I entirely understand where you're coming from - emptying hefty loads of paint in the general direction of the enemy team is becoming an increasingly common (and IMO, cheap and annoying) strategy, but that strategy is only good for terrorizing and pinning down opponents. Accuracy is really what counts - for anyone who's unfamiliar with paintball, most paintball guns like the rentals you'll get will spray balls around so badly that once an opponent gets more than 50-60ft. away, hitting them begins to transition from an act of skill to a stroke of luck...especially outdoors. The most accurate markers will allow you to shoot with decent accuracy at 80-100ft.
Accuracy AND a high firing rate, on the other hand, will allow you to utterly destroy and dominate any team that isn't similarly equipped. I've played on teams of skilled players with rental equipment against teams with a similar skill level but with fully automatic, highly accurate markers, and they were just toying with us. We were helpless as they systematically pinned us down with a hail of paint, closed in and took us out. One person on our team had military training but was playing paintball for the first time - he was doing a decent job so far but we had to explain to him to throw all the old rules out the window with this team.
Expose any part of yourself at any distance and you WILL get hit. Don't try to run through their fire at a distance, you WILL get hit. Don't expect them to stop shooting, each one of them is carrying more ammo than our whole team has. Keep moving as much as you can, if you get pinned down you're done for.
The only thing more depressing than helplessly taking cover while being pinned down with an unrelenting hail of paint is firing at an opponent running brazenly across the field 70ft. or so away and watching the balls fly randomly around them...at times it definitely feels like a spending competition, but those are rare cases and I wouldn't say the "game has devolved" to that level in general.
Also on the firearms vs. paintball debate, after playing paintball I don't see how anyone could lower themselves exclusively to shooting inanimate objects. Shooting is just one part of paintball.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Herman Goering said this in his interviews for the Nuremberg trials.
Because we all know, that nobody who plays paintball, knows that those pellets are different than bullets. At least in 30 years there will, because education will actively be held so low that there is nobody left to know stuff. It's for the good of us all. Nanny government takes care of it aaall. Just be a nice citizen and go to bed again.
Of course there will be some outlaws, who then will still play, and maybe this time grab a real gun instead of a paintball gun, at their local illegal gun dealer. You know, It's way cooler. And then someone will shoot someone, out of pure randomness. Which will, again, prove that it was awww-right to ban them in the first place.
</sarcasm>
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I thought he'd want us to remember: "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." --Thomas Jefferson
It's not what you know; It's what you can find out.
How else would you describe majority opposition for the Iraq war, something like 50% opposition to the Afghan conflict, constant complaints about wiretapping and "enhanced interrogation techniques", and the lowest approval figures of any president in US history?
Sure, the 9/11 attacks had a strong impact on the American people. However, the long term effect has been negligible. People are still split on the same old political lines, and continue to quibble about the same old issues - the existence of an external threat seems to be the last thing on most peoples minds. When the biggest argument in your nation regarding the war on terror is whether or not to prosecute CIA agents who engaged in "waterboarding" captured militants, you know that people have pretty much dismissed the threat of terrorism.
That's just the thing, though. Nowadays if German A accuses German B of a lack of patriotism, B will most likely consider A a nazi or a nitwit. It's become pretty much a dirty word.
I didn't really mean it. Everyone is so sensitive...
I'm glad they found evidence that directionally relates to this being a problem.
Paintball is great wayto build team work, end of discussion. Go the a Pro tournament and see for yourself.
My cousin is a professional paintball player and I don't think he has killed anyone yet......he may have but I don't think so.
In germany we have elections this year. Thats why the politicians need to pretend they were doing something. On the other hand they don't want to piss off the very big Gun Club lobby, so the only thing they can do is bash some scapegoats (like first person shooters and paintball)
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
... like equating it with paintball.
...yellow number five, yellow number five, yellow number five...
(it is called great coalition, however the meaning is more like big coalition)
I suspect the German word is "gross", although one of the English meanings may be closer.
I hate how the blame is always concentrated on one topic. If paintball turned people into killers then there would be millions more murders then there currently are. Yes it could be a attributing factor. More likely the kid was from a disfunctional family, had social issues, wasn't able to get the help to make sense of the world he was in and, oh ya most importantly, enjoyed competitive paintball and violent video games.
You know if this were any other country than Germany, I would say that this is ridiculous. But I think it's best to limit the Germans access to activities or material that would incite their natural violent tendencies.
Ever since Angela Merkel's government was elected, time and time again (Â202c, carbon tax, and now this) it has proved to have no interest in satisfying the will of its constituents, but rather to be the leading government in Europe applying pro 1984 Orwellian policies. Who exactly is this government serving ? Certainly not its people.
Paintball is illegal now?! Oh well...I guess I'll have to resort to real guns then. At least it's still legal to shoot real guns from the looks of those high school shootings.
The German Government plans to ban thunderbolts and lightening, the rationale for this is
that they are "Very very frightening" Fines could be up to 5,000 euros."
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Diet pills or Diat Pils?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Ummmm, was it something I said?
My ism, it's full of beliefs.