Q: What do you get when you cross a chicken and a turkey?
A: |Chicken|*|Turkey|*sin(theta)
Q:What do you get when you cross a mosquito and a mountain climber?
A: You can't -- the mosquito is a vector and the mountain climber a scaler; you can't cross a vector with a scaler.
1) These remains [i.e. Kennewick Man, Spirit Cave Man, &c.] belong to a member of our tribe.
2) We will not allow anyone to dig up one of our modern graves.
3) As a member of our tribe, [Kennewick Man, Spririt Cave Man, &c.] would not have wanted to be excavated.
4) You may not dig up any remains.
Basically, the Indians are making the claim that their world view is fundamentally the same as a 2- or 5- or 11,000 year old culture.
NAGPRA only allows for the repatriation of remains and other items of "cultural partimony" to federally recognized Indian tribes. The Ainu are not a recognized tribe, and would have no claim to any remains.
This is not really a new observation. About a century ago, people started to notice similarities, leading to three major classifications of people in the world (based on major phenotypes). There are mongoloids, similar in appearance to Asians. These included most Asian groups, Polynesians, and most American Indians. Negroids are similar in appearance to Africans, i.e. dark skin, wide noses, often tall and thin. Included in this group are most sub-Saharan Africans, Native Australians and a scattering of other groups around the world. The last group, the caucasians, are similar to people from the Caucasus region (not to say they are from there, just that the appearance is similar). This includes most Europeans.
However, these classifications only take into account a small facet of human variability and have no real basis in genetic reality. MtDNA is much more important in the modern study of human groups, though by no means the only factor. Things like skull shape are still used, and to great effect. For instance, Kennewick Man and Penon Woman III are seen as distinct based upon skull shape. Still, it will be interesting to see what the MtDNA has to say.
In terms of why these similar "styles" seem to exist in the world, it is probably in large part due to adaptation. In a hot, sunny environment such as Africa or Australia, it is good to be dark so as not to get sunburned, and a high height:mass ratio increases surface area for cooling. Short, stocky people like the Scots or some northern American groups (i.e. the Inupiat) are designed to exist in cold environments.
That being said, the similarities between Asians and American Indians are likely caused by common ancestory. About 15-20 thousand years ago, duing the height of the last Ice Age, it was possible to walk across the Bering Land Bridge from Asia to America. Even more likely, it Asia to America. Thus, nearly all native American Indians are likely decended from Asian groups, such as the Ainu.
I hope that incoherent rambling mess comes near to answering your question...
The law remains and not much happens. NAGPRA (The Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation Act) asserts that all prehistoric remains in all the museums in the US are to be "repatriated;" that is to say, they must be given over to the tribe that can make the best claim to decendence from the remains. Furthermore, any new remains that are found must be handed over after a limited time for scientific analysis.
NAGPRA makes it very clear (or at least later legal interpretation of NAGPRA makes it very clear) that all prehistoric remains are to be "repatriated," regardless of actual evidence of decent. Case in Point: Kennewick Man. Kennewick Man is a ~10,000 year old skeleton found in Washington state. Anthropologically speaking, it is impossible to show that he has any relation to any living group. In fact, he is completely unlike any living person on Earth (see Jim Chatters' book, Ancient Encounters; while Chatters may not be the best scientist in the world, he is just about the only one to publish anything on Kennewick Man). However, it was originally ruled that Kennewick Man must be given over to modern Indian groups that live in the area. Recent court decisions have gone back and forth a bit, but the general outlook is not good.
In my opinion, NAGPRA is one of the most regressive, anti-scientific laws ever written. When determining where a skeleton or other remains ultimatly end up, it is assumed that all remains will go somewhere. If archaeological or anthropological evidence cannot place remains among any living, federally recognized Indian group, native folklore is taken at face value and the group that claims to have lived in an area "since time immemorial" has the greatest claim.
This is particularly upsetting in the case of Kennewick Man, where archaeological evidence implies that the folk who live in that part of WA now have only been there for the last 2 or 3 thousand years!
Again, to come back to the question that was asked: The laws, as they are written, are not affected by any new theories. Furthermore, the idea of several migrations has been around for a while and is accepted by a large group of archaeologists, even before the evidence of this skull.
Note: I am an archaeologist, and have rather strong feelings on the subject. Sorry to rant.
Seriously, both aspects of the problem must be solved. Education and birth control can be used to control populations, but a more equal distribution of food can be helpful in the short term.
Now, without jerking a knee so hard it falls off, can some one please explain to me why these cameras are such a bad thing? Really, I want to know. The three arguments that I have seen thus far are as follows:
(1) The cameras are an invasion of privacy.
I am unwilling to accept this argument. Is it an invasion of privacy when a cop sits behind a billboard with a radar gun looking for speeders? Are security cameras in the local Kwik-e-Mart an invasion of privacy? Hell, when you get your driver's licsence, they want to know your height, weight, age, eye color, and a whole slew of other information about you. Is that invasive? I certainly don't feel I need to tell people how much I weigh. The cameras are in public places. If they used tax dollars to put a cop at every one of these intersections to catch people who are speeding or running red lights, instead of complaining that it is an invasion of privacy, I'll bet anything people on/. would be complaining that it is a waste of money.
(2) The cameras are inaccurate.
This could be a problem. It is really the only argument that I buy. However, can police officers not also be inaccurate? mean? nasty? in a bad mood? How many people do you suppose get pulled over for speeding when they are within just a couple of miles of the speed limit, but the cop thinks they are going faster than they are or is just in a bad mood? Sure, you can try to contest such tickets, but you will generally loose. It is your word against the police officers, and who do you think a judge is going to believe. In the end, I don't think that the cameras are any worse than a cop on a bad day.
(3) The cameras are nothing more than a money making scheme.
I can't accept that at all. Certainly, they make money for the city, and for the corporation that reviews the photos, and I could understand how one could accuse a mayor or other city official of doing nothing but making money off of the cameras, but it would seem from the Washington Post article that the cameras are well liked by everyone in the enforcement business, from the lowly cop on patrol to those in power. Yes, it makes some money, but it also serves the function of keeping people safe. Drugs like Aspirin make a lot of money too. Is that a bad thing? In my opinion, no.
I am sorry to rant, but I really do not understand what is so wrong with delegating much of the grunt work of law enforcement to machines. This should allow police officers to focus on things that many would consider to be more important, like citing drunk drivers and solving crimes like homicide and rape. The system does not seem to be trampling any freedoms, and it is freeing up the police to get on to other things. What is so wrong with that?
Prostitution is only legal in a couple counties in Nevada - even then those counties COMBINED all have a population LESS than 250 people
No. This is not true. While prostitution is legal here on a county by county basis, many counties allow prostitution, including Elko, Wite Pine, and Nye counties. The only places that I know of right off where prostitution is not legal are Las Vegas County, and perhaps Carson County. It may also be illegal in Reno, as there are no brothels in town here, but there are several "bunny ranches" just outside of town. Elko County alone has a population of at least 20,000 (with some 10,000 in Elko alone). In Elko County, there are at least five brothels, three in Elko and two in Wells, 60 miles east of Elko.
Hey, those are a lot better than the plates we have now! Stupid scene with ugly yellows, blues, and greys. I can't wait to put one of these on my truck!
First off, this is probably the knee-jerk reaction in defense of everything that I have been taught (ala Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution -- old guard fights to defend their theories while those damn punk children walk all over them -- funny that, I should be one o' those punk kids!) however, without seeing a technical article explaining how these conclusions were reached, I have a couple of questions:
How did they arrive at this date of 81.5 million years ago? They discuss using DNA and mathematical estimates of age. Both are highly theoretical, and I could run the same experiment, using only slightly different numbers and come up with something completely different. In the case of DNA (probably Mitochondrial DNA, not nuclear DNA), we do not know the rate of genetic drift -- it is variable for all we know. So, assumptions based on MtDNA are on tenuious ground. In the case of their equations, what were these equations? What were the base assuptions used to create them?
It is interesting to think that primates have evolved much earlier than the fossil record indicates, but it is very hard to believe without any real evidence. As the article itself states "'Of course, this is all speculation,' Tavaré acknowledged. 'We have not found any fossils in that bin yet.'"
It also sounds as though there is some major construction going on down there. Even in the US, where we have laws like ARPA (Archaeological Resource Protection Act) and the NHPA (National Historic Preservation Act), construction projects, mining, and agriculture tend to be considered more important than archaeology (or "respect for the dead"). They may be moving a lot of bodies, but there are two choices:
1) move those bodies, then study them and perhaps reinter them somewhere OR
2) let the bulldozers destroy the lot.
This here is my sig. Is it not nifty? Worship the sig. (Sorry Pete)
Is good, I like.
Re:The problem with all these equations...
on
Rare Earth
·
· Score: 2, Funny
In that case, you have done quite well.
I was raised in a family of anthropologists, and I am now pursuing a degree in archaeology. Back in the day, I was given Chariots of the Gods by my parents. Basically, they said "If you every do any thing like this, we will disown you." Anyway, the book is fun as fiction, right?
This is something that Ambrosia Software figured out a long time ago. They have produced some of the best Mac [the phantom ducks his head to avoid rotton tomatoes] games of all time. Some of the games that they have put out are truely amazing, such as Maelstrom (a really good Asteroids clone), the Escape Velocity Trilogy, and Ferazal's Wand (sp?). However, what has made their games truely wonderful is the ability to midify them. Escape Velocity Override was a great game, but you could only play it through a few times before everything had been done. But, there was the Frozen Heart plug, Femme Fatale, and several other complete replacements that forced me to pay for that little bit of shareware. And Ambrosia has been allowing users to modify their games for a very long time -- it seems to me that Maelstrom was one of the first, in the early 90s.
Re:The problem with all these equations...
on
Rare Earth
·
· Score: 1
Not to be rude or any thing, but Erik von Daniken is a nutter.
The reasons for the recurrances can probably be tracked to two or three factors. First, there is the obvious common origin idea... these themes all come from some common event, culture, or oral tradition.
The other possibility is that they are simply archetypes that tend to appear because humans are all basically alike. For instance, hero figures tend to be very similar across many cultures. Or take creation stories as an example. Nearly every culture has a creation myth. They often include a "man is wicked and so must be punished" theme. The floods in the Bible and Gilgamesh. Escaping from the underworld in south west American Indian lore. Examples can be found in Greek and Norse mythology as well.
Or elightenment style stories. The apple in the Garden of Eden. Prometheis bringing fire to humans. Coyote doing the same for the Hopi.
Anthropologists have studied the commonality of themes in folklore, and the jury still seems to be out. There are those that argue that all folklore follows one of several trajectories, containing a finite number of themes that are deeply ingrained in human culture. Others argue that common folklore represents common cultural traditions and see commonalities as evidence of some great cultural heritage.
In the end, I feel that some middle ground is most probable. There is some shared tradtion, but there are also themes that tend to have an effect on people. Those themes are explored in nearly every culture: why are we here? what makes us (humans) unique in the world? how do you define good and bad?
Now, as it is way past the time I am generally long asleep, I must bid you good night.
Summerian civilization is (arguably) the oldest human civilization. They popped up in the fertile cresent between the Tigris and Euphretis Rivers about 7 kBP (BP == years before present). The Greeks appeared maybe 4 kBP, though "classical" Greek civilization was much later, maybe 2-2.5 kBP. The Jews have been around for perhaps 5 thousand years.
It is probable that there was some contact between the ancient Greeks and Jews, and it is possible that Jewish culture and lore had an effect upon Greek traditions, but I don't really know to what extent.
SHORT ANSWER: Summerian and Jewish culture are both older than Greek culture.
However, I have little expertise in the Mediteranean (or the Old World in general -- I am much more interested in the hunter-gatherer societies of the pre-historic New World than Old World ancient civ.). The above dates are all from required Western Civ course and associated textbook:
Mattews, Roy T. and F. DeWitt Platt, eds.
2001. The Westen Humanities: Volume One: Beginnings through the Renaissance, 4th Ed.Mayfield Publishing Company:Mountain View, CA.
If there is some one with more knowledge, please correct me if I am wrong.
Pardon me, you are correct; I was being a bit liberal with the language. Compiled into some form of oral tradition is more what I was trying to express.
Also, you are right that similarities in material and oral traditions could be related to trade networks, I seem to recall something from Intro to Arch about the Jews coming out of Summeria. As the class was several years ago, and the mid-east/Palestine/the Mediteranean is not my area of expertise, I am more than willing to concede that point as well.
As for the comment about "much of the Bible," the first 10-15 or so chapters of Genesis deal with topics that are common to both traditions. This is not a majority of the Bible, or a great plurality even, but I would argue that this counts as "much." The term is subjective, and is once again a mistake or misuse of the language on my part, and I should have limited my comments to Genesis. I apologize for being unclear.
Still, all of this is somewhat tangential to the core of my argument, which is that there is, in fact, a common origin. Parts of Hebrew (and later Christian, Muslim, and Morman) mythology are derived from Mesopotamian myths, and that it should come as no suprise that common themes appear.
Slashdot Mirror
You could always try fencing.
What, like bubble wrap painted red?
You're looney! No one would ever pay money for that!
Q: What do you get when you cross a chicken and a turkey?
A: |Chicken|*|Turkey|*sin(theta)
Q:What do you get when you cross a mosquito and a mountain climber? A: You can't -- the mosquito is a vector and the mountain climber a scaler; you can't cross a vector with a scaler.
The argument runs like this:
1) These remains [i.e. Kennewick Man, Spirit Cave Man, &c.] belong to a member of our tribe.
2) We will not allow anyone to dig up one of our modern graves.
3) As a member of our tribe, [Kennewick Man, Spririt Cave Man, &c.] would not have wanted to be excavated.
4) You may not dig up any remains.
Basically, the Indians are making the claim that their world view is fundamentally the same as a 2- or 5- or 11,000 year old culture.
NAGPRA only allows for the repatriation of remains and other items of "cultural partimony" to federally recognized Indian tribes. The Ainu are not a recognized tribe, and would have no claim to any remains.
This is not really a new observation. About a century ago, people started to notice similarities, leading to three major classifications of people in the world (based on major phenotypes). There are mongoloids, similar in appearance to Asians. These included most Asian groups, Polynesians, and most American Indians. Negroids are similar in appearance to Africans, i.e. dark skin, wide noses, often tall and thin. Included in this group are most sub-Saharan Africans, Native Australians and a scattering of other groups around the world. The last group, the caucasians, are similar to people from the Caucasus region (not to say they are from there, just that the appearance is similar). This includes most Europeans.
However, these classifications only take into account a small facet of human variability and have no real basis in genetic reality. MtDNA is much more important in the modern study of human groups, though by no means the only factor. Things like skull shape are still used, and to great effect. For instance, Kennewick Man and Penon Woman III are seen as distinct based upon skull shape. Still, it will be interesting to see what the MtDNA has to say.
In terms of why these similar "styles" seem to exist in the world, it is probably in large part due to adaptation. In a hot, sunny environment such as Africa or Australia, it is good to be dark so as not to get sunburned, and a high height:mass ratio increases surface area for cooling. Short, stocky people like the Scots or some northern American groups (i.e. the Inupiat) are designed to exist in cold environments.
That being said, the similarities between Asians and American Indians are likely caused by common ancestory. About 15-20 thousand years ago, duing the height of the last Ice Age, it was possible to walk across the Bering Land Bridge from Asia to America. Even more likely, it Asia to America. Thus, nearly all native American Indians are likely decended from Asian groups, such as the Ainu.
I hope that incoherent rambling mess comes near to answering your question...
The law remains and not much happens. NAGPRA (The Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation Act) asserts that all prehistoric remains in all the museums in the US are to be "repatriated;" that is to say, they must be given over to the tribe that can make the best claim to decendence from the remains. Furthermore, any new remains that are found must be handed over after a limited time for scientific analysis.
NAGPRA makes it very clear (or at least later legal interpretation of NAGPRA makes it very clear) that all prehistoric remains are to be "repatriated," regardless of actual evidence of decent. Case in Point: Kennewick Man. Kennewick Man is a ~10,000 year old skeleton found in Washington state. Anthropologically speaking, it is impossible to show that he has any relation to any living group. In fact, he is completely unlike any living person on Earth (see Jim Chatters' book, Ancient Encounters; while Chatters may not be the best scientist in the world, he is just about the only one to publish anything on Kennewick Man). However, it was originally ruled that Kennewick Man must be given over to modern Indian groups that live in the area. Recent court decisions have gone back and forth a bit, but the general outlook is not good.
In my opinion, NAGPRA is one of the most regressive, anti-scientific laws ever written. When determining where a skeleton or other remains ultimatly end up, it is assumed that all remains will go somewhere. If archaeological or anthropological evidence cannot place remains among any living, federally recognized Indian group, native folklore is taken at face value and the group that claims to have lived in an area "since time immemorial" has the greatest claim.
This is particularly upsetting in the case of Kennewick Man, where archaeological evidence implies that the folk who live in that part of WA now have only been there for the last 2 or 3 thousand years!
Again, to come back to the question that was asked: The laws, as they are written, are not affected by any new theories. Furthermore, the idea of several migrations has been around for a while and is accepted by a large group of archaeologists, even before the evidence of this skull.
Note: I am an archaeologist, and have rather strong feelings on the subject. Sorry to rant.
Hurrah for Malthus!
Seriously, both aspects of the problem must be solved. Education and birth control can be used to control populations, but a more equal distribution of food can be helpful in the short term.
Shakira?
Jennifer Lopez?
Celine Dion?
Wow, I thought it would eject these at the mere thought of having to play them. I almost feel sorry for the poor iMacs that are forced to eat these.
Now, without jerking a knee so hard it falls off, can some one please explain to me why these cameras are such a bad thing? Really, I want to know. The three arguments that I have seen thus far are as follows:
/. would be complaining that it is a waste of money.
(1) The cameras are an invasion of privacy.
I am unwilling to accept this argument. Is it an invasion of privacy when a cop sits behind a billboard with a radar gun looking for speeders? Are security cameras in the local Kwik-e-Mart an invasion of privacy? Hell, when you get your driver's licsence, they want to know your height, weight, age, eye color, and a whole slew of other information about you. Is that invasive? I certainly don't feel I need to tell people how much I weigh. The cameras are in public places. If they used tax dollars to put a cop at every one of these intersections to catch people who are speeding or running red lights, instead of complaining that it is an invasion of privacy, I'll bet anything people on
(2) The cameras are inaccurate.
This could be a problem. It is really the only argument that I buy. However, can police officers not also be inaccurate? mean? nasty? in a bad mood? How many people do you suppose get pulled over for speeding when they are within just a couple of miles of the speed limit, but the cop thinks they are going faster than they are or is just in a bad mood? Sure, you can try to contest such tickets, but you will generally loose. It is your word against the police officers, and who do you think a judge is going to believe. In the end, I don't think that the cameras are any worse than a cop on a bad day.
(3) The cameras are nothing more than a money making scheme.
I can't accept that at all. Certainly, they make money for the city, and for the corporation that reviews the photos, and I could understand how one could accuse a mayor or other city official of doing nothing but making money off of the cameras, but it would seem from the Washington Post article that the cameras are well liked by everyone in the enforcement business, from the lowly cop on patrol to those in power. Yes, it makes some money, but it also serves the function of keeping people safe. Drugs like Aspirin make a lot of money too. Is that a bad thing? In my opinion, no.
I am sorry to rant, but I really do not understand what is so wrong with delegating much of the grunt work of law enforcement to machines. This should allow police officers to focus on things that many would consider to be more important, like citing drunk drivers and solving crimes like homicide and rape. The system does not seem to be trampling any freedoms, and it is freeing up the police to get on to other things. What is so wrong with that?
No. This is not true. While prostitution is legal here on a county by county basis, many counties allow prostitution, including Elko, Wite Pine, and Nye counties. The only places that I know of right off where prostitution is not legal are Las Vegas County, and perhaps Carson County. It may also be illegal in Reno, as there are no brothels in town here, but there are several "bunny ranches" just outside of town. Elko County alone has a population of at least 20,000 (with some 10,000 in Elko alone). In Elko County, there are at least five brothels, three in Elko and two in Wells, 60 miles east of Elko.
Hey, those are a lot better than the plates we have now! Stupid scene with ugly yellows, blues, and greys. I can't wait to put one of these on my truck!
Aha! Thank you for the link.
First off, this is probably the knee-jerk reaction in defense of everything that I have been taught (ala Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution -- old guard fights to defend their theories while those damn punk children walk all over them -- funny that, I should be one o' those punk kids!) however, without seeing a technical article explaining how these conclusions were reached, I have a couple of questions:
How did they arrive at this date of 81.5 million years ago? They discuss using DNA and mathematical estimates of age. Both are highly theoretical, and I could run the same experiment, using only slightly different numbers and come up with something completely different. In the case of DNA (probably Mitochondrial DNA, not nuclear DNA), we do not know the rate of genetic drift -- it is variable for all we know. So, assumptions based on MtDNA are on tenuious ground. In the case of their equations, what were these equations? What were the base assuptions used to create them?
It is interesting to think that primates have evolved much earlier than the fossil record indicates, but it is very hard to believe without any real evidence. As the article itself states "'Of course, this is all speculation,' Tavaré acknowledged. 'We have not found any fossils in that bin yet.'"
It also sounds as though there is some major construction going on down there. Even in the US, where we have laws like ARPA (Archaeological Resource Protection Act) and the NHPA (National Historic Preservation Act), construction projects, mining, and agriculture tend to be considered more important than archaeology (or "respect for the dead"). They may be moving a lot of bodies, but there are two choices:
1) move those bodies, then study them and perhaps reinter them somewhere OR
2) let the bulldozers destroy the lot.
Which would you choose?
This here is my sig. Is it not nifty? Worship the sig. (Sorry Pete)
Is good, I like.
In that case, you have done quite well.
I was raised in a family of anthropologists, and I am now pursuing a degree in archaeology. Back in the day, I was given Chariots of the Gods by my parents. Basically, they said "If you every do any thing like this, we will disown you." Anyway, the book is fun as fiction, right?
This is something that Ambrosia Software figured out a long time ago. They have produced some of the best Mac [the phantom ducks his head to avoid rotton tomatoes] games of all time. Some of the games that they have put out are truely amazing, such as Maelstrom (a really good Asteroids clone), the Escape Velocity Trilogy, and Ferazal's Wand (sp?). However, what has made their games truely wonderful is the ability to midify them. Escape Velocity Override was a great game, but you could only play it through a few times before everything had been done. But, there was the Frozen Heart plug, Femme Fatale, and several other complete replacements that forced me to pay for that little bit of shareware. And Ambrosia has been allowing users to modify their games for a very long time -- it seems to me that Maelstrom was one of the first, in the early 90s.
Not to be rude or any thing, but Erik von Daniken is a nutter.
The reasons for the recurrances can probably be tracked to two or three factors. First, there is the obvious common origin idea... these themes all come from some common event, culture, or oral tradition.
The other possibility is that they are simply archetypes that tend to appear because humans are all basically alike. For instance, hero figures tend to be very similar across many cultures. Or take creation stories as an example. Nearly every culture has a creation myth. They often include a "man is wicked and so must be punished" theme. The floods in the Bible and Gilgamesh. Escaping from the underworld in south west American Indian lore. Examples can be found in Greek and Norse mythology as well.
Or elightenment style stories. The apple in the Garden of Eden. Prometheis bringing fire to humans. Coyote doing the same for the Hopi.
Anthropologists have studied the commonality of themes in folklore, and the jury still seems to be out. There are those that argue that all folklore follows one of several trajectories, containing a finite number of themes that are deeply ingrained in human culture. Others argue that common folklore represents common cultural traditions and see commonalities as evidence of some great cultural heritage.
In the end, I feel that some middle ground is most probable. There is some shared tradtion, but there are also themes that tend to have an effect on people. Those themes are explored in nearly every culture: why are we here? what makes us (humans) unique in the world? how do you define good and bad?
Now, as it is way past the time I am generally long asleep, I must bid you good night.
Summerian civilization is (arguably) the oldest human civilization. They popped up in the fertile cresent between the Tigris and Euphretis Rivers about 7 kBP (BP == years before present). The Greeks appeared maybe 4 kBP, though "classical" Greek civilization was much later, maybe 2-2.5 kBP. The Jews have been around for perhaps 5 thousand years.
It is probable that there was some contact between the ancient Greeks and Jews, and it is possible that Jewish culture and lore had an effect upon Greek traditions, but I don't really know to what extent.
SHORT ANSWER: Summerian and Jewish culture are both older than Greek culture.
However, I have little expertise in the Mediteranean (or the Old World in general -- I am much more interested in the hunter-gatherer societies of the pre-historic New World than Old World ancient civ.). The above dates are all from required Western Civ course and associated textbook:
Mattews, Roy T. and F. DeWitt Platt, eds.
2001. The Westen Humanities: Volume One: Beginnings through the Renaissance, 4th Ed.Mayfield Publishing Company:Mountain View, CA.
If there is some one with more knowledge, please correct me if I am wrong.
Pardon me, you are correct; I was being a bit liberal with the language. Compiled into some form of oral tradition is more what I was trying to express.
Also, you are right that similarities in material and oral traditions could be related to trade networks, I seem to recall something from Intro to Arch about the Jews coming out of Summeria. As the class was several years ago, and the mid-east/Palestine/the Mediteranean is not my area of expertise, I am more than willing to concede that point as well.
As for the comment about "much of the Bible," the first 10-15 or so chapters of Genesis deal with topics that are common to both traditions. This is not a majority of the Bible, or a great plurality even, but I would argue that this counts as "much." The term is subjective, and is once again a mistake or misuse of the language on my part, and I should have limited my comments to Genesis. I apologize for being unclear.
Still, all of this is somewhat tangential to the core of my argument, which is that there is, in fact, a common origin. Parts of Hebrew (and later Christian, Muslim, and Morman) mythology are derived from Mesopotamian myths, and that it should come as no suprise that common themes appear.
thank you
You forgot Erik von Daniken (sp?)
FYI, Roman civ. only goes back to maybe 2.5-3 k years, not a "couple of thousand" of years BC.