But eventually those old people die-off, leaving a generation that is a little more used to automation systems, and eventually they will die off leaving - most likely - the majority of/.ers and younger. By 2050, even we will be very old, so the question is if we'll allow this?
Companies are all about saving money - why would they care how they get their next billion [monetary units]? Just the other day, IBM announcement 450,000 layoffs within a few years, taking those jobs up in India for a cheaper price. Eventually, computers will be even cheaper to do the trivial work, whether it's programming or asking "do you want fries with that?".
Yeah, 2050 may be a little soon, but make no mistake, it can and most likely will happen and that scares me. I probably won't be alive to see it, but what kind of person would I be if I didn't care about future generations.
While movies like Terminator, Matrix, and many others may be fiction, they hold a very realistic and deep message (and they could easily happen many years from now if we don't heed their warning). I don't think people are getting point.
Call me paranoid, but there's a certain realism there that scares me.
Not everyone writes comments like that. I generate docs from my source so even my source comments (visible to the documentor or not) are grammatically correct. Mostly, that's because I'm anal, but even when I provide extensive comments in as much "structure" as English can provide, the Indians still can't undestand what in the hell I'm talking about. If that's the level of compitence over there, then IBM is about to get what they deserve. You get what you pay for...
Keeper, I agree with everything you're saying here and above. I don't totally discount linux - it has it's uses. But these damn idiots don't know anything about the "evil Borg that is M$" (as they say). They're all full of propaganda and it isn't worth arguing and getting yourself upset. I tried this just a couple days ago and it gets tiring.
You're right that all OS's (and apps) have these support problems. No company will support something that old, no matter if they are closed- or open-source.
And it's obvious that these linux freaks don't know thy enemy. I've been programming since long before OLE and have programmed in each of those progressions and am glad you pointed it out, although it just falls on deaf ears.
One thing I'd like to add is that it's far easier to program on Windows and to administer them. While I don't like code monkeys (those that know how to write lines of code, but don't know crap about development) or your average IT worker (those that know how to click buttons and check checkboxes), they exist out there and they populus is growing. Those people could never administer linux because they know a trade and most often don't want to actually understand what they're doing. The linux desktop is getting better, but most people still couldn't use it (I have to deal with a lot of people being a developer and last-level support for our products that don't even know what a right-click is).
Lastly, another point is that technologies such as COM, DCOM, and now.NET make the platform very extensible (shell extensions, for example) and integrated. Linux doesn't have this sort of component technology, save the crappy DCOP framework in KDE. Sure, Windows has bugs because all these pieces working together is bound to have a few, but linux is no different. There's lots of bugs in linux as well but, since it's open source, the users themselves are often left to fix the problems themselves. It's the open source mentality.
So, keep-up the good fight, but just remember that the majority of/. are linux junkies that think linux will solve world hunger and that it is the be-all, end-all solution to everything.
Now, I know that the patent system is really for patenting processes (though that's not always the case), but how could've he received a patent for something that isn't actually done yet? He has an idea for a process, but not the process itself. Perhaps I'm missing something.
No, the Portable Document Format (PDF) IS secure. The hole is actually in loading plugins at startup. While a plugin could, of course, modify the display or something of a PDF, the format itself is secure (at least as far as we know). Just FYI.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I know most corporations don't give a shit about anyone. That's why I stated that we're extremely lucky if they do even a little bit (typically, this is only from small businesses, which are quickly being gobbled-up by the corporate monster).
As you said, though, we need at least a little money - to survive if nothing else. While OSS might be good for personal projects, it doesn't generate a whole hell of a lot of revenue. I think the recent death of LRP would've taught you that. And if you're not making money, as the maintainer said he's not, you can't eat, pay bills, or even afford a funeral for when you do die.
Re:Stuck with Java? Get your facts straight please
on
.Net:... 3 Years Later
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· Score: 1
What are you talking about? I was stating that with the JVM, you're stuck with Java. Apparently, though, there was some obscure projects out there that can target the JVM, but I was never claiming that Java's been the only one to do it up until.NET. I'm aware of CORBA and some of what it can do and that its been around a long time. I'm sorry if lead you wrong.
You definitely have a point there with the so-called "glit and glammor" of programming. Perhaps entry-level courses at colleges and Universities should show the every-so-true "Office S[ace"! I'm sure many people wouldn't return the next day.
The IDE problem is real, though. I have to put up with it here at work. Visual designers aren't the only problem. Microsoft's IntelliSense (and whatever other implementations exist, like whatever they call it in Kdevelop) is also troublesome. I'm a senior software architect that has to support a bunch of industrial engineers - most of which have never programmed before - that rely upon visual designers and IntelliSense. Do they ever bother to read the documentation or do research to find what's available or to find more efficient ways of doing things? Hell no. The IDE makes it so simple. They just click "." or "->" and down comes some functions that they know nothing about.
First, I never said "the JIT". Second, don't be so anal. By saying the JVM, I didn't mean THE JVM because, yes, I know there's more than one and they each have ads and disads. But, if I were to say "the apple", do you think I would mean THE apple? No, of course not.
As far as personal / community projects go, I can't disagree that OSS is good for such things. I was speaking in the context of corporations, however. Yes, RedHat is doing OK, but they are one of the few.
As far as reinventing things and adding "eye candy", I have to agree and disagree. Yes, things have been a little stagnant lately; but, nothing is good / correct / efficient the first time around (i.e., regarding milestones and not continuous development projects). Active Directory is more akin to Novell's NDS, but is improved and a little more extensible (not like it's easy, though). SOAP is a lot like XML-RPC, but deals with lifetime managed a little better, IMO. And, of course, it's not just MS that's reinventing the wheel. There are many, many corporations out there besides MS.
I don't believe that OSS will go away or that it should. As I said, its great for community projects and what-not. It just doesn't make for a good business model. Like it or not, business are in it to make money (if we're really lucky, they also care about their clients). If they don't, they won't exist.
Exactly, which is why it takes forever to develop and so many OSS jobs fails - it doesn't make any money! That is the point of business now, isn't it? Or have we finally switched to a utopian society, because that's what it's going to take for most OSS companies (ex: linux vendors) to profit).
I've developed using Java since the beginning and everything I ever read about the JVM stated that it JITs everything that is "early-bound". Perhaps JITting has improved, but start-up times barely have! My.NET apps still start-up and run much faster than their Java counterparts.
Thanks for the support - but just for the record, C# does not do XML well:.NET does. The language is just syntax for writing Intermediate Language, or IL. Different languages compile slightly different, but the result after compilation is mostly the same. It's the IL that the CLR JITs and executes.
See, you linux junkies don't really know crap about MS, do you? In most cases, the CLR out-performs native Win32 because of better heap management, caching, and other little things here and there. And there will be cross-platform compatibility once linux developers finish Mono.
If anything that runs on a VM is slow - it's Java. It has to JIT everything before running it while the CLR JITs on demand and it even does that faster!
You mean like linux junkies that try to cram linux down everyone's throat as the be-all, end-all solution to everything? Sorry, people aren't buying it.
The only problem is that they've made the damn IDE too simple and now every Tom, Dick, and Sally thinks they can program. Writing code and actually developing applications are vastly different.
With XML Web Services (granted, not MS proprietary) and Remoting,.NET make remote procedure calls somewhat easier.
If Mono ever finishes, the platform-specific CLR can run most code. Even though Java's done it for a long time, you're tied to one language: Java. The.NET class library can be used by any language that targets the CLR - and that's quite a few; so any developer can write for.NET.
If the industry could actually start hiring good developers again instead of brain-dead code monkeys who's jobs at McD's got too tedious and their sole purpose for coding is more money, the field of.NET - not to mention a lot of other projects on any platform - would be much better. Who's to blame is all those middle managers out there that hire two code monkeys for the price of one good developer. At least they get what they pay for.
While doing testing on a former project from a company I used to work for, I was actually paid to look up pr0n! It was to test our Internet filtering software and, of course, we had to test when wasn't configured "right". That was another cool job!
Seriously, what a childish thing to do! I know they're losing revenue - but that's the point! Sure, 1 out of 10 (stupid) people may bite, but that's 9 out of 10 people that would love to rub their face in year-old Spam (the Hormel kind*). The government - and the people actually backing them for once instead of being apathetic or unheard - have spoken! Perhaps they should get a real job that is more respectable by far - like flipping burgers, cleaning sewer systems, or trying legal cases.
* Note to Hormel: even you can't deny that year-old Spam is bad on its own, no matter what "Spam Alert LLC" may imply!
I have to agree with you there. Where there's a will, there's a way; and a lot of people simply have a will to crack stuff. It's a good challenge (hopefully!).
One method that does work, however, is really annoying: digital rights management, or DRM. Music is currently doing this on many commercial players and the registration (?) process is incredibly annoying and gives you at least an eyeful of popups (I'm already buying their damn music, what do I want with another X10 ad!).
Using a similar approach (sans the popups, please) for shareware might be effective. Most of the registration / purchase mechanisms I've seen work on a local basis (except for getting a one-time key from the Internet). If shareware were to include DRM or DRM-like mechanisms, perhaps it would be more viable as a useful platform for small-time commercial apps.
Diminish Microsoft developers? It's the *nix/OSS developers that are always whining about not making money! Guess what - I do. That's not to say a lot of the stuff I developer with what little free time I have doesn't get released to the public, but I never expect something to which I've provided source to make money. It's the constant whining of OSS developers that choose the GPL expecting money that diminishes OSS - why would any company want to use it after people complaining about lack of funds. Sure, some do, but companies like IBM have plenty of revenue from other sources.
Like someone said in a previous article about the end of the LRP, "Live by the GPL, die by the GPL". That truly is diminishing.
What I hate is these OSS people that bitch about Microsoft all the time and, like this article poster, know nothing about Microsoft other than "they are big and brudish and their code is buggy". Yeah, show me any company that has that many products that does have even more bugs. When I used RedHat, there were updates all the time - just like people bitch about when Microsoft does it. If OSS developers are going to bitch about Microsoft, at least know thy enemy and quite spouting the same usual garbage that applies to most software companies.
There are no ".NET framework" languages. There are languages that target the Common Language Runtime, or the CLR. The.NET Framework is nearly a class library like the JDK/JRE. If he doesn't even know that, why should I trust his book review?
Fooleshness? You're the fool. The GPL does have to do with copyright. It ensures that the original authors retains copyright.
Besides, Microsoft is not the only company distributing binaries - MOST COMPANIES DO IT! That's why most comanies are making profits. Sure, some GPL'd projects turn a profit by not a large amount. Not everyone abides by the GPL and can easily steal the source - it's a lot easier to rip-off source code than compiled code! And if they distribute binaries, its not always obvious that GPL'd code was used.
So, to you and the majority of/., realize that Microsoft is not the only company that relases binaries. Most companies do and most companies profit. Do the math.
Slashdot Mirror
But eventually those old people die-off, leaving a generation that is a little more used to automation systems, and eventually they will die off leaving - most likely - the majority of /.ers and younger. By 2050, even we will be very old, so the question is if we'll allow this?
Companies are all about saving money - why would they care how they get their next billion [monetary units]? Just the other day, IBM announcement 450,000 layoffs within a few years, taking those jobs up in India for a cheaper price. Eventually, computers will be even cheaper to do the trivial work, whether it's programming or asking "do you want fries with that?".
Yeah, 2050 may be a little soon, but make no mistake, it can and most likely will happen and that scares me. I probably won't be alive to see it, but what kind of person would I be if I didn't care about future generations.
While movies like Terminator, Matrix, and many others may be fiction, they hold a very realistic and deep message (and they could easily happen many years from now if we don't heed their warning). I don't think people are getting point.
Call me paranoid, but there's a certain realism there that scares me.
Not everyone writes comments like that. I generate docs from my source so even my source comments (visible to the documentor or not) are grammatically correct. Mostly, that's because I'm anal, but even when I provide extensive comments in as much "structure" as English can provide, the Indians still can't undestand what in the hell I'm talking about. If that's the level of compitence over there, then IBM is about to get what they deserve. You get what you pay for...
It makes you think, though... ...which vid format should you download and redistribute?
Keeper, I agree with everything you're saying here and above. I don't totally discount linux - it has it's uses. But these damn idiots don't know anything about the "evil Borg that is M$" (as they say). They're all full of propaganda and it isn't worth arguing and getting yourself upset. I tried this just a couple days ago and it gets tiring.
You're right that all OS's (and apps) have these support problems. No company will support something that old, no matter if they are closed- or open-source.
And it's obvious that these linux freaks don't know thy enemy. I've been programming since long before OLE and have programmed in each of those progressions and am glad you pointed it out, although it just falls on deaf ears.
One thing I'd like to add is that it's far easier to program on Windows and to administer them. While I don't like code monkeys (those that know how to write lines of code, but don't know crap about development) or your average IT worker (those that know how to click buttons and check checkboxes), they exist out there and they populus is growing. Those people could never administer linux because they know a trade and most often don't want to actually understand what they're doing. The linux desktop is getting better, but most people still couldn't use it (I have to deal with a lot of people being a developer and last-level support for our products that don't even know what a right-click is).
Lastly, another point is that technologies such as COM, DCOM, and now .NET make the platform very extensible (shell extensions, for example) and integrated. Linux doesn't have this sort of component technology, save the crappy DCOP framework in KDE. Sure, Windows has bugs because all these pieces working together is bound to have a few, but linux is no different. There's lots of bugs in linux as well but, since it's open source, the users themselves are often left to fix the problems themselves. It's the open source mentality.
So, keep-up the good fight, but just remember that the majority of /. are linux junkies that think linux will solve world hunger and that it is the be-all, end-all solution to everything.
He invented human virtues? Interesting...
Now, I know that the patent system is really for patenting processes (though that's not always the case), but how could've he received a patent for something that isn't actually done yet? He has an idea for a process, but not the process itself. Perhaps I'm missing something.
No, the Portable Document Format (PDF) IS secure. The hole is actually in loading plugins at startup. While a plugin could, of course, modify the display or something of a PDF, the format itself is secure (at least as far as we know). Just FYI.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I know most corporations don't give a shit about anyone. That's why I stated that we're extremely lucky if they do even a little bit (typically, this is only from small businesses, which are quickly being gobbled-up by the corporate monster).
As you said, though, we need at least a little money - to survive if nothing else. While OSS might be good for personal projects, it doesn't generate a whole hell of a lot of revenue. I think the recent death of LRP would've taught you that. And if you're not making money, as the maintainer said he's not, you can't eat, pay bills, or even afford a funeral for when you do die.
What are you talking about? I was stating that with the JVM, you're stuck with Java. Apparently, though, there was some obscure projects out there that can target the JVM, but I was never claiming that Java's been the only one to do it up until .NET. I'm aware of CORBA and some of what it can do and that its been around a long time. I'm sorry if lead you wrong.
You definitely have a point there with the so-called "glit and glammor" of programming. Perhaps entry-level courses at colleges and Universities should show the every-so-true "Office S[ace"! I'm sure many people wouldn't return the next day.
The IDE problem is real, though. I have to put up with it here at work. Visual designers aren't the only problem. Microsoft's IntelliSense (and whatever other implementations exist, like whatever they call it in Kdevelop) is also troublesome. I'm a senior software architect that has to support a bunch of industrial engineers - most of which have never programmed before - that rely upon visual designers and IntelliSense. Do they ever bother to read the documentation or do research to find what's available or to find more efficient ways of doing things? Hell no. The IDE makes it so simple. They just click "." or "->" and down comes some functions that they know nothing about.
First, I never said "the JIT". Second, don't be so anal. By saying the JVM, I didn't mean THE JVM because, yes, I know there's more than one and they each have ads and disads. But, if I were to say "the apple", do you think I would mean THE apple? No, of course not.
As far as personal / community projects go, I can't disagree that OSS is good for such things. I was speaking in the context of corporations, however. Yes, RedHat is doing OK, but they are one of the few.
As far as reinventing things and adding "eye candy", I have to agree and disagree. Yes, things have been a little stagnant lately; but, nothing is good / correct / efficient the first time around (i.e., regarding milestones and not continuous development projects). Active Directory is more akin to Novell's NDS, but is improved and a little more extensible (not like it's easy, though). SOAP is a lot like XML-RPC, but deals with lifetime managed a little better, IMO. And, of course, it's not just MS that's reinventing the wheel. There are many, many corporations out there besides MS.
I don't believe that OSS will go away or that it should. As I said, its great for community projects and what-not. It just doesn't make for a good business model. Like it or not, business are in it to make money (if we're really lucky, they also care about their clients). If they don't, they won't exist.
Exactly, which is why it takes forever to develop and so many OSS jobs fails - it doesn't make any money! That is the point of business now, isn't it? Or have we finally switched to a utopian society, because that's what it's going to take for most OSS companies (ex: linux vendors) to profit).
Oh, have I? Why don't you tell me then?
I've developed using Java since the beginning and everything I ever read about the JVM stated that it JITs everything that is "early-bound". Perhaps JITting has improved, but start-up times barely have! My .NET apps still start-up and run much faster than their Java counterparts.
Thanks for the support - but just for the record, C# does not do XML well: .NET does. The language is just syntax for writing Intermediate Language, or IL. Different languages compile slightly different, but the result after compilation is mostly the same. It's the IL that the CLR JITs and executes.
Just FYI.
See, you linux junkies don't really know crap about MS, do you? In most cases, the CLR out-performs native Win32 because of better heap management, caching, and other little things here and there. And there will be cross-platform compatibility once linux developers finish Mono.
If anything that runs on a VM is slow - it's Java. It has to JIT everything before running it while the CLR JITs on demand and it even does that faster!
You mean like linux junkies that try to cram linux down everyone's throat as the be-all, end-all solution to everything? Sorry, people aren't buying it.
The only problem is that they've made the damn IDE too simple and now every Tom, Dick, and Sally thinks they can program. Writing code and actually developing applications are vastly different.
With XML Web Services (granted, not MS proprietary) and Remoting, .NET make remote procedure calls somewhat easier.
If Mono ever finishes, the platform-specific CLR can run most code. Even though Java's done it for a long time, you're tied to one language: Java. The .NET class library can be used by any language that targets the CLR - and that's quite a few; so any developer can write for .NET.
If the industry could actually start hiring good developers again instead of brain-dead code monkeys who's jobs at McD's got too tedious and their sole purpose for coding is more money, the field of .NET - not to mention a lot of other projects on any platform - would be much better. Who's to blame is all those middle managers out there that hire two code monkeys for the price of one good developer. At least they get what they pay for.
While doing testing on a former project from a company I used to work for, I was actually paid to look up pr0n! It was to test our Internet filtering software and, of course, we had to test when wasn't configured "right". That was another cool job!
Besides, why would he want to find another job?!
Apparently they weren't spanked as children.
Seriously, what a childish thing to do! I know they're losing revenue - but that's the point! Sure, 1 out of 10 (stupid) people may bite, but that's 9 out of 10 people that would love to rub their face in year-old Spam (the Hormel kind*). The government - and the people actually backing them for once instead of being apathetic or unheard - have spoken! Perhaps they should get a real job that is more respectable by far - like flipping burgers, cleaning sewer systems, or trying legal cases.
* Note to Hormel: even you can't deny that year-old Spam is bad on its own, no matter what "Spam Alert LLC" may imply!
Isn't this what the ALT attribute is for? :-)
I have to agree with you there. Where there's a will, there's a way; and a lot of people simply have a will to crack stuff. It's a good challenge (hopefully!).
One method that does work, however, is really annoying: digital rights management, or DRM. Music is currently doing this on many commercial players and the registration (?) process is incredibly annoying and gives you at least an eyeful of popups (I'm already buying their damn music, what do I want with another X10 ad!).
Using a similar approach (sans the popups, please) for shareware might be effective. Most of the registration / purchase mechanisms I've seen work on a local basis (except for getting a one-time key from the Internet). If shareware were to include DRM or DRM-like mechanisms, perhaps it would be more viable as a useful platform for small-time commercial apps.
Diminish Microsoft developers? It's the *nix/OSS developers that are always whining about not making money! Guess what - I do. That's not to say a lot of the stuff I developer with what little free time I have doesn't get released to the public, but I never expect something to which I've provided source to make money. It's the constant whining of OSS developers that choose the GPL expecting money that diminishes OSS - why would any company want to use it after people complaining about lack of funds. Sure, some do, but companies like IBM have plenty of revenue from other sources.
Like someone said in a previous article about the end of the LRP, "Live by the GPL, die by the GPL". That truly is diminishing.
What I hate is these OSS people that bitch about Microsoft all the time and, like this article poster, know nothing about Microsoft other than "they are big and brudish and their code is buggy". Yeah, show me any company that has that many products that does have even more bugs. When I used RedHat, there were updates all the time - just like people bitch about when Microsoft does it. If OSS developers are going to bitch about Microsoft, at least know thy enemy and quite spouting the same usual garbage that applies to most software companies.
There are no ".NET framework" languages. There are languages that target the Common Language Runtime, or the CLR. The .NET Framework is nearly a class library like the JDK/JRE. If he doesn't even know that, why should I trust his book review?
Fooleshness? You're the fool. The GPL does have to do with copyright. It ensures that the original authors retains copyright.
Besides, Microsoft is not the only company distributing binaries - MOST COMPANIES DO IT! That's why most comanies are making profits. Sure, some GPL'd projects turn a profit by not a large amount. Not everyone abides by the GPL and can easily steal the source - it's a lot easier to rip-off source code than compiled code! And if they distribute binaries, its not always obvious that GPL'd code was used.
So, to you and the majority of /., realize that Microsoft is not the only company that relases binaries. Most companies do and most companies profit. Do the math.