Slashdot Mirror
Telemarketers Plan Counterattack
Chris Hoofnagle writes "CNN reports that companies who heavily use telemarketing are planning to counterattack consumers with a barrage of spam and junk mail in October, when the new do-not-call registry goes into effect. Slashdotters should be aware that, as well as anti-spam email software, there are tools to avoid junk snail-mail, such as Junkbusters' free Declare, Private Citizen's excellent service and the Postal Service's Prohibitory Order service, which is described at the EPIC privacy page."
"We'll be giving the dog what the dog wants to eat," James F. Lyons, president of direct-marketing consultancy Optima Direct told the paper.
...Raah.,
The paper said that in addition to seeing more e-mail or junk mail, consumers who call companies on other business may now have to listen to sales pitches while negotiating voice mail messages.
Yeah, that's what I wanna hear- I'm a dog, and I get to listen to kibbles and bits and bits and bits next time I call to get my dog neutered. Tell ya what boys, you pull a voice spam on me while I try to give you business and I'll just be letting my dog hose down whatever he feels like instead. As I close my CNN Money Pop up. I fell for something pretty bad tonight too- got my first land line in three years (cell only since) and it rang for the first time tonight. I hadnt given the number to anyone. I picked it up... listened for about 10 seconds of silence. I go, "hello?" CLICK. Looks like another fake hotmail address for the Do Not Call registry. Crimony. Doesn't it just make you livid? Gah.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
Instead of electronic trash to delete, we're going to have real trash that has to be disposed of. Can't imagine how many AOL cds I've gotten and have had to get rid of.
I didn't think it was possible, but clicking on the unsubscribe links on the SPAM that I get, has actually stopped most of it, and I have a fairly clean inbox. Now, whenever I check my email, I get disappointed to see no new messages. Maybe it was nice to have SPAM keeping me company.
Those sleazebags will simply move to Canada, where there is already an overabundance of call centers and phone scammers.
These idiots just don't get it, do they. We don't want the crap their schlepping.
Perhpas we'll need a "do not mail, and do not e-mail" list now as well.
Seriously, I think spammers should go to jail if they are requrested to stop and DON'T. I'm not even convinced that the death penalty would be considered "cruel and unusual" for these idiots who JUST WON'T LEAVE US ALONE!!!!!
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
because this will vastly improve the popularity of their products, putting them in the company of Nigerian scams and penis enlargement systems. Very popular indeed.
It's a lot harder to have a throw-away phone number than an email address. Thank you Hotmail!
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
I love it, the article has a popunder : )
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
Stop buying stuff from the companies that do this. Bottom line. Spam and telemarketing works because of idiots. No one will pay cold callers who can't sell 1 out of 1000 sales. Put an end to the insanity, slashdot.
They want to play dirty??
They better have some heavy duty security in place. And they better have armed escorts to and from the parking lots. Someone is going to get a belly full someday very soon and they will go looking for a pound of flesh..
The odds are against them because they so viscously and relentlessly hound and harrass such large numbers of people so endlessly.
Sooner or later, the numbers say that a certain percentage of their victims will snap..
And you know what? I won't shed a single tear for one of them. Not one....
Here's the relevant section of the page from EPIC. I only included one link, the one to the most important form.
=== snip ===
Stopping Junk Mail with Post Office Prohibitory Orders
Individuals may obtain a prohibitory order to stop junk mail from being sent to a residence. This order can be obtained through a law that prohibits the mailing of advertising materials "which the addressee in his sole discretion believes to be erotically arousing or sexually provocative." Practically, this means that individuals can obtain a prohibitory order against any junk mail sender.
Individuals wishing to obtain a prohibitory order should visit their local post office for "Form 1500" or click on the link provided below.
The Attorney General's office no longer sues under this statute to obtain damages. However, individuals should still obtain prohibitory orders against junk mailers. By doing so, marketers who engage in saturation mailings (heavily-discounted mailings delivered to every residence in the area that are usually addressed with "Postal Customer" or "Resident") must adjust their address lists so that the materials are no longer sent to the address with the prohibitory order. This results in higher costs to junk mailers.
* Application for Listing and/or Prohibitory Order (Form 1500), United States Postal Inspection Service.
* 39 U.S.C. Sect. 3008, Prohibition of pandering advertisements.
* Rowan v. U.S. Post Office, 397 U.S. 728 (1970). "In today's complex society we are inescapably captive audiences for many purposes, but a sufficient measure of individual autonomy must survive to permit every householder to exercise control over unwanted mail...Today's merchandising methods, the plethora of mass mailings subsidized by low postal rates, and the growth of the sale of large mailing lists as an industry in itself have changed the mailman from a carrier of primarily private communications, as he was in a more leisurely day, and have made him an adjunct of the mass mailer who sends unsolicited and often unwanted mail into every home. It places no strain on the doctrine of judicial notice to observe that whether measured by pieces or pounds, Everyman's mail today is made up overwhelmingly of material he did not seek from persons he does not know. And all too often it is matter he finds offensive."
* Unsolicited Sexually Oriented Advertising, United States Postal Inspection Service.
* Stop Unsolicited Sexually Oriented Advertising in Your Mail, United State Postal Inspection Service.
* Postal Bulletin PB 21977, United State Postal Inspection Service, July 30, 1998. "The prohibitory order. This order aids in protecting customers from receiving pandering advertisements through the mail. An addressee may obtain a prohibitory order against the mailer of an advertisement that the addressee determines, in his or her sole discretion, to be offering matter for sale that is erotically arousing or sexually provocative, as defined in title 39, United States Code, 3008. Postmasters may not refuse to accept a Form 1500 because the advertisement in question does not appear to be sexually oriented. Only the addressee may make that determination. The order prohibits the mailer from sending any further mail to the applicant (and his or her eligible minor children included in the application), effective on the 30th calendar day after the mailer receives the order."
* U.S. Laws on Direct Mail, Junkbusters.
=== snip ===
Spammers are people just like us, and if they wish to go on the counter attack I will be one to make the seperation clear by putting my foot up the ass of everyone who sends me a credit card application for a 18% APR.
"We'll be giving the dog what the dog wants to eat," James F. Lyons, president of direct-marketing consultancy Optima Direct told the paper.
I usually flush shit down the toilet, not feed it to my dog. What goes around, comes around. I predict there will be a backlash against the sleaziest of these direct marketing firms and the slime that hire them. I already refuse to deal with companies that make me play touch-tone tag on their badly designed voice systems.
Here is a good explanation:9 667.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=67851&cid=621
"telemarketing are planning to counterattack consumers with a barrage of spam and junk mail in October"
That's not what the story says. Sheesh, don't the submitters even read the articles? This story isn't about counterattacking anyone.
Here's a quote that summarizes the story: ''"We plan to shift into other communication mediums, and rely more heavily on traditional TV advertising and e-mail marketing," Allstate acting Chief Marketing Officer Todd DeYoung told the paper.''
In other words, they will stop using telemarketing and shift over to snail mail and email. Will that email be spam? Maybe, maybe not, but a spam from Allstate is a heck of a lot better than a phone call from Allstate every time I sit down to a meal.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
We don't want their god damn advertisements. We don't want to hear them, see them, feel them, or so much as share our oxygen with them. The fact that over 12,000 people signed up with the do-not-call registry on its first day of operation should give these jackfucks a hint that they should keep their unsolicited garbage to themselves.
I hope I live long enough to see the day when all advertising is banned. All commercial speech. Banned. Eventually, if they keep this shit up, the government will have a compelling interest in shutting them up, and banning it will be the most narrowly-tailored way of achieving that goal. Champagne's on me.
I'm not advocating violence, but if we can convince psycho fundamentalists that abortions are taking place in advertising agencies, we might be able to make a wee bit of progress.
"If you are in the advertising business... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
We all hate this shit, but going off at the Telemarketers and Spammers doesn't work - they've proven time and again that they have no respect for the "consumer".
Better is a) Don't buy the stuff, and b) Lodge formal complaints with the CEO of the company's using their services. Most of the top-dogs have little idea their marketing departments are doing this shit so let them know, and let them know you don't like it and won't buy their stuff as long as they do it.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Just before the state of Kansas implemented a no-call list,
I ended up getting 3-5 calls a day from telemarketers
(Yes, I'm in Kansas). I'm guess they're still trying to figure
out why everybody wants on the list.
Sounds like a great way to help push through legislation similar to the do not call registry for mailing and spam. Incendentally, a good way to deal with an abundance of junk mail to to write "refused, return to sender" on it and drop it in a mail box. It will get send back to the mailer and they will pay for the return postage.
~Warning!~ The above is encrypted using rot676!
The more they bombard us, the more we hate them and only idiots who make their own consumer hate them. If they at least wear their brains, they should exercise self-control. For me, personally, I never ever buy any products on any companies that advertise through spam and I believe most of you do too.
Now, the problem is that what if they advertise some other / competitor product so that the spam makes customers hate these innocent companies? Well, I suppose the innocent companies can sue these spammers for slander (assuming they can trace the culprits back and have long enough law tentacles to reach them). Therefore, either way, the spammers lose.
--
Error 500: Internal sig error
The problem with spam and direct mail and telemarketing is simple: it works. There are people that buy stuff from them. The people that actually buy stuff are the ones that are ruining things for the rest of us.
So, I propose that we set up a fake telemarketing/spam centre that pretends to be your typical telemarketer. But instead of sending you a long distance plan or penis enlarger, it actually just sends out a pyromaniac to burn your house down if you buy something.
The best part is it only has to be done once or twice to have a strong dampening effect; it may not actually need to be done at all, since the people that buy stuff from spam/telemarketers are probably the same people that believe urban legends and those 'pass this to your friends' e-mails.
It's a foolproof plan. Quick, someone start the chain e-mail!
Another slashdotter said it best:
"The best way to avoid spam is to never give out your e-mail address to anyone."
It's good advice. I've been using that method ever since I read that, and it's working beautifully.
Well, ok. First we have RIAA going all out sueing people left and right. Then we have SCO going all out crazy on the OSS and Linux community. Now we have the infamous telemarketing companies "counterattacking" their customers. Next up, grocery stores throwing tomatoes at shoppers.
Businesses are supposed to provide products and services, not shove them down our throats. It is our choice what we buy anyway, isn't it?
Question everything.
"companies who heavily use telemarketing are planning to counterattack consumers with a barrage of spam and junk mail"
Not a problem, as I'm reasonably certain that such tactics will lead them to the promised land of lawsuits, Chapter 11, and finally, Cellblock 6A, which houses Bubba's Fudge-Packing Factory. Spam on dear telemarketers. Spam your way to an 8x10 cell where you can push your wares on a 300lbs man who hasn't seen a woman in 15 years.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
I can understand the logic behind a company who's business model relies on calling customers switching to spam and direct mail when the DNC registry is implemented but why can they not see that the reason it is being put in place is because of them and if they persist they will merely succeed in getting do not spam and do not mail lists created.
If your business model requires hassling your customers then when they prevent you doing it via the phone it's time to change business models not the method you use to hassle.
It's self defeating and why business's think that customers want you to cold-contact them I do not know. Find a market, advertise on mass media or in media that your customers read and then sell to them. Don't bother everyone else with your crap.
I am a bomb technician, if you see me running - try to keep up.
Does it strike anyone that the approach of the telemarketers is comparable to the approach of the RIAA customers?
Maybe not the same thing here, but why is the new trend to piss off potential customers through means that will surely deter interest from buying their products?
I hope more organizations don't go this route, this surely isn't what I would think to do as a business leader. (but im a geek, i might be wrong)
I don't get any crap from friends or family either!
Funny... When I click the link, the IP it displays is a loopback (127.0.0.1). Is that also the reason most all popups (the FEW I get) as well as in-page adverts I SHOULD see are blank or 404'd?
If you don't know already and are using Windows, go to Bob's Block List and pay attention to the stuff at the very bottom. Do what it says and add the text list to yuor C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts file. This should stop those shady companies like doubleclick, gain, and many others in their tracks. I'm sure adding the IP ranges to your router or firewall won't hurt either.
*Gasp*, a libertarian on /. is unheard of. Now why should government be getting involved? If there are any libertarians out there, how can you justify this _regulation_? Now libertarians tend to be intelligent and intelligent people tend to hate advertising, so how do you reconcile?
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Just had a thought... Forget lodging formal complaints - just find the CEO's phone number and call him at dinner time to tell him how you feel about it.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Personally, I don't care much about snail-mail spam. I figure if they're paying for it, the more the merrier. Gives me the chance to use that big, shiny dumpster right by the mailbox.
Apparently they weren't spanked as children.
Seriously, what a childish thing to do! I know they're losing revenue - but that's the point! Sure, 1 out of 10 (stupid) people may bite, but that's 9 out of 10 people that would love to rub their face in year-old Spam (the Hormel kind*). The government - and the people actually backing them for once instead of being apathetic or unheard - have spoken! Perhaps they should get a real job that is more respectable by far - like flipping burgers, cleaning sewer systems, or trying legal cases.
* Note to Hormel: even you can't deny that year-old Spam is bad on its own, no matter what "Spam Alert LLC" may imply!
Telemarketers and spammers alike don't deserve respect.
If you get mail, try to always reply... on their dime. E.g. when they have business reply stuff.
Otherwise, if there is a return address mark "dead" on the mail and send it back.
If you're getting calls always try to find out things about the caller. Ask where they go to school [most are students]. Ask what political party they voted for, etc.
The bottom line is instead of trying to run and hide from them why not have fun instead? Answer the phone, just don't give them useful information. Lie through your teeth while learning things about them.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
The paper said that in addition to seeing more e-mail or junk mail, consumers who call companies on other business may now have to listen to sales pitches while negotiating voice mail messages.
Oh, this is great. I could barely contain myself when some credit card company couldn't accept my multiple "I'd like to cancel my (zero-balance) account, please" without subjecting me to twenty questions about why, and would I consider this offer, oh I'm sorry but I have to ask you this, well what if we gave you this rate, etc.
Sure, if one finds embedded sales pitches offensive there's always the option to find an alternative... the 'vote with your dollar' argument. But damn that seems slow, and worse yet subject to interpretation. Will the company recogize that profits are lower than they could be, and identify the reason? Better off to lodge a complaint and tell them why they're not getting your business.
The real victims of this battle are the people who must make their living as telemarketters. Also, Market Researchers are victims because people automatically assume they're trying to sell something.
Hopefully the telemarketers won't be using "directed marketing" with the email addresses of those in the "do not call" registry, in order to "fight back". The privacy statement on the registry says that they will not share email addresses with telemarketers. I hope they stick to it.
Instead of pranking a telemarketer next time they call, get the phone number of the company on whose behalf they're calling. Get in touch with that companies marketing department and explain to them exactly why you will now NEVER consider their services. Make sure you tell them that you will tell other people. If there's a big enough backlash, believe me, they WILL listen, because eventually the backlash will be costing them more than they'd make by doing this shit.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I know I already dont pay attention to junk snail mail.... And the difference here between making calls and sending emails is, materials cost money. Is it really productive to dish out cash to send papers and other stuff to people who wont even read them? I'd hate to know how much AOL spends on throwing all these CDs at people.... But I cant complain about AOL's CDs, because they often come in a fancy DVD case that I can use :)
I DO HATE those mother fuckers!!! They eat 10GB of my bandwidth each month SENDING SHIIIIIIIT TO MY WEBHOSTING CUSTOMERS!!! OMFG! I'm so mad! I'm gonna explode.
I think we got a spammer here. :p
Yep I really want to work for a direct mail company. Thats why this holloween i'm gonna get as many mail order addressess I can and send them my resume! I have a few friends interested in it too maybe if someone had the time they could make a large list on a website so everyone who is interested can apply!
My my, I hope I havn't hurt my chances, all those resumes that they have to keep on file how on earth will mine stand out? well maybe i'll make it out of cardboard! Yea!
Anyone who belongs here will have long since banished THOSE from their browsers and (admittedly rather short) attention spans. :)
Or is the links on the side REALLY FUCKING ANOYING.
Id like my eye not to focus on the REALLY FUCKING ANOYING links on the side of the page.
Why the FUCK was it changed?
The whole economic vs growth rate was an interesting bit, but that whole imperial/world domination conclusion?!?!!!!
Come on you yellow belly freedom hating terrorist!!! Just because the guy who invented the internet didn't win the last presidential election doesn't mean that capitalism sucks.
The tragedy being that after eliminating all legitimate email, that method may still leave you receiving spam.
One sleazy spammer tactic is to target a domain and autogenerate a zillion possible email addresses, in what's called a Rumpelstiltskin attack. If you have an email alias common or simple enough that you couldn't use it as a password, then it's vulnerable. If it's on some high-profile provider like Hotmail, it will be attacked.
It appears that consumers are getting overexcited by the hype, and not paying any attention to the details regarding the national DO Not Call list. What it boils down to is that there is no infrastructure in place to deal with any complaints. And there will be complaints. When you sign up for a credit card, or subscribe to a magazine, you become a customer of that particular company, giving them the right to call you. You also give that company the right to share your information with their "affiliates". On October 1st, when everyone and their brother is calling the FTC's as yet non-existent call center to file their complaints, they will discover that they have no legitimate complaint. For the few people who actively send the required opt-out letters to their credit card companies telling them that they do not wish to have their information shared with the "affiliate" companies, when they call to make a legitimate complaint, what are the chances that they will get the required information to make a complaint. According to the National DNC website, "You must provide either the NAME or the PHONE NUMBER of the COMPANY that called you, as well as the DATE OF THE CALL and YOUR PHONE NUMBER. I don't think that there are many telemarketing companies out there that will be very forthcoming with their Name or Phone Number for angry victims, especially when each violation will cost them $11,000. And please note that the FTC does not yet have any specifics on how to file a complaint, or who to file it with. Let's face it; 46 states have had do not call lists for years, and it hasn't stopped the telemarketers yet.
(offtopic) Additionally, the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that this is the best idea that the government ever had for creating a database of names and numbers and email addresses. Peole are entering their data for the FTC as fast as they possibly can. And with nothing to show for it in the end.(/offtopic)
"I planned within my means and got a fixed rate mortgage, so where's MY bailout?" -cafepress
Sadly I, like many others, do not have the privs to install Mozilla on my work box. : (
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
We all know that pissing off the customer is the best way to get him to buy your shit. Uh huh. It appears that a good portion of the population is already sick of the incessant jabbering of commercial speech, which is not unlike the hundreds of monkeys in yonder trees. Perhaps the federal do-not-call list will be the catalyst which incites people to actively boycott companies that insist on harassing them in their private space. One can hope.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
.. it will save me having to buy all those equally useless newspapers to start the fire with in the cold winters evenings.
Another slashdotter said it best:
"The best way to avoid spam is to never give out your e-mail address to anyone."
Duh, it doesn't even take another slashdotter to realize that is true. I've had a hotmail account since the days where you could register with a 4 character password and have never received a single spam email. In fact, I've had that email account before slashdot was around to have a slashdotter give me that candy piece of advice!
On that note, the best way to avoid a crusty ass is to wipe it clean after a nice big shit.
From the article:
Rough translation: "we will advertise at you by any and all legal means available, no matter how annoying we have to be." I do sometimes wonder if there isn't a viable place for, "just concentrate on giving the customer good service," in this world. Nobody seems to believe in that quaint old idea anymore.
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
But wouldn't Bugging supposibly potential customers that are on the do not call list, Really arn't potential customers. So wouldn't bugging them just tick them off, then say leaving them alone and letting them find you if they need service/product. --Just a thought.
Don't think so? I'll show you the receipt for the money I send to the phone company to rent the number. As such, calling me to sell me something is nothing short of trespassing--it is using my property without my permission.
Howizzit telemarketers don't grasp this concept? Howizzit the lawmakers fail to? Whyizzit we have to finely craft laws such as the don't-call-list to leave loopholes so I still have to hang up on the statetroopers whoopee fund. It is so demonstrably clear that my phone number is mine and using it is not free speech. Leaving the loophole is like leaving a loophole that says it is okay for the local repugnican party to put "elect tusch" signs in my yard.
And same argument goes for my email address. It's mine, I pay good money to my cable company to have it.
Oddly, snail mail doesn't trespass in the same way. The marketer has to pay to for their soon-to-be-trash to be brought to my house. Then again, I do have to pay to have it hauled away.
To reduce crime, make fewer things against the law.
I don't enjoy starting my Sat's off turning down offers for whatever it is these jerk@sses are peddling either, but is there any need for a piece of federal legislation restricting this practice???
First off, this law will effectively destroy an entire industry which does produce quite a bit of revenue and provides employment to many americans.
More importantly, does the government have any real business legislating yet another means of which to curb the pursuits of commerce. Every time a topic galvanizes the public, the politicians rally bekhind the flavor of the month, and a new law restricting our freedoms is passed. Once this privilge is outlawed, the feds will never give it back; IT'S GONE. I half expect to be goose stepping to work within a decade.
Set up an answering machine to pick up all incoming calls and have a message like:
"If you are an authorised caller, please wait for someone in the house to answer your call or press 1 to leave a message. If you represent a telemarketing company, please press 2 then enter a valid credit card number when you hear the tone. Please be aware that premium rates will apply to direct marketers if you are calling outside of 9AM to 5 PM AEST"
No need to have a voicemail system behind it, your friends will quickly figure out there isn't one.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
I think the front of the Wall Steet Journal today had a graphic on the right side of the front page showing the amount of money spent by industries on telemarketing.
If I remember correctly, the bar graphs summed up to something around $10 billion (yes, $10,000,000,000) dollars anually.
So, if $10 billion is being spent on telemarketing, how much are people buying to make that expenditure worth while?
Somewhere, oh somewhere, there are those idiots spending ATLEAST $10 fucking-billion dollars a year to keep these dickheads calling us at dinnertime!
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If they give you a postage-paid envelope (and a lot of them do), mail it back to them. Make 'em pay postage both ways.
Just make sure it doesn't have your name on it. Duh.
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I got a call from a company many days in a row, and it played the nice DTMF tones that cause the phone companies computer to ignore your switch hook, so when you hang up, it doesn't recognize that you have done so. after about 3 days in a row of this, I stayed on the line until I got to a real live person. I asked that I be taken off their list, and was told it would be done, but could take a few days. I Politely asked for the companies name, phone number and address, which was given to me. (it is a violation of federal law not to). I then called the phone company and after getting ahold of a person there with some real power, (this is the hardest part) explained that company A was twiddling with their computers using aforementioned DTMF tones. This is a violation of almost all phone companies TOS. The engineer type said he would look into it.
The next day, I did not receive a phone call from company A, so I decided to call them, and darn it, there phones had been disconnected.
True story, it really works. If you are persistent, you can get their phones turned off.
In the wild there are no dumb lions tigers or bears. Only humanity subsidizes the continued existence of the stupid.
I know mods don't like to reward brutal sarcasm, but I enjoyed your post.
The problem is that there are idiots on both sides of the transaction. P.T. Barnum would be so proud. If said idiot believes he can get rich quick by hiring a spammer to send out 100 million emails for $100 on his behalf, it doesn't matter if there is 0 response. The spams have already gone out, and even if he doesn't try again, there are thousands of other idiots willing to take his place.
Perhaps one could convince those hackers mounting their attack on July 6th to go after these advertising servers. Then we'd see some real progress... and honestly, who could blame them? ^_^
One tactic among many: EVERY time you obtain or receive a Business Reply Mail
card or envelope: MAIL IT.Every issue of Scientific American comes with no less than six BRM subscription cards. Most magazines are just as bad. Oftentimes junk mail includes BRM envelopes, to facilitate your reply. What you need to understand is that the companies do not pay postage for Business Reply Mail, unless the cards and envelopes are actually mailed. Yes, they pay an annual fee for the license; but actual postage is only charged for each piece of mail actually processed.
In other words: When you throw these items in the trash, you achieve nothing. If you mail them, however, not only are you forcing the companies to pay postage (plus their costs in processing dead-end replies), but you're actually giving their money to the post office -- theoretically, helping to keep down the cost of our stamps. ;-)
crib
Please don't read my journal
don't buy anything from telemerketers. don't buy anything that's advertised on tv. If everybody does that for one month, there'll be no more annoying calls and no more advertising on tv. Heaven on earth.
I'd just do what this guy did and all those nasty emails would go away :)
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Maybe someone can remind me of the rules for bulk-snail-mail. For all 2-5 credit card offers and such I get every day and whatever other crap I get in my mailbox, if I just marked them 'Return To Sender' would these actually get returned or trashed by the USPS? If they would be returned, I'm buying myself a ink pad and stamper.
-my other sig is your mom
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All this said is that advertising money would have to be redirected to other channels.
Really, they are just stating the obvious.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
How about just changing the SMTP to something that spammers can not automate ? Instead of sitting here talking BS...Lets make a new protocol. Not tomorrow, not waiting for others. Let us make it TODAY! Change the whole email system. Call it "Email Version 2" or something.
Somewhat off topic but related.
Has anyone attempted / succeded in having their
computer answere blocked calls?
The detection would seem to be staright forward,
ie an anonymous call. Having your machine say "HELLO" would also seem straight forward.
From there you get into voice recognition and
Turing.
Has anyone tried this?
A telemarketer talking to your machine is not bothing anyone else. How many machines would it take to suck up most of the telemarketing time?
"We'll be giving the dog what the dog wants to eat," James F. Lyons, president of direct-marketing consultancy Optima Direct told the paper
Excellent. I'd like your liver, with grilled onions.
>;k
You know those little cards they include, prepayed postage and all, so you can response to order their wonderful products? How convient! Glue a brick to it, so that the postage/address side shows. Now put it in your mailbox. You know how much it costs to ship a brick?
====
Crudely Drawn Games
I had to call them about 5 times, and send a FED-EX to the president of Knight-Ridder in order to get it to stop.
Can you imagine? To stop a newspaper I never wanted in the first place, I had to spend about an hour on the phone and $12 on FED-EX bills!
The local Police and City Hall (Palo Alto, CA), tell me there's nothing they can do about it. (I guess they're too busy hugging homeless people.)
The paper weighs about 6 oz, on average. For 6 months thats about 90 pounds of paper. WHat I don't understand is if I decided to deliver, say, 90 pounds of manure "free" to the Palo Alto Police chief, he'd have me arrested. WHY CAN THE SAN JOSE MERCURY NEWS get away with this?
Best Buy can have you arrested
incorrect data. 27 states had dnc lists....
(from the ftc.gov website.)
46? what were the 4 states? cmon! do some fact checking before hand yo....
data for the ftc? your phone number? gee golly whiz, the federal government could never have gotten my public phone number, i'm sooo scared!
now those selective service MANDATORY ENLISTMENT things, THOSE are evil, and every 18-24yr old is automatically entered into this 'military' database.
Were you suggesting otherwise?
I hope they will set up their own ISP, or at least have a specific ip range.
If they do this then everyone can block list the hell out of it with out worries since nothing of any good will ever come out of it.
Besides, I am sure the anti-spammers and even regular people will be able find, and expose them if they try to hide.
Thanks a lot! I am downloading it now...
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
Telemarketers eye alternatives
Report: AT&T, others to shift efforts to direct mail, e-mail due to 'do-not-call' list.
July 2, 2003: 10:30 AM EDT
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Companies that are major users of telemarketing calls are preparing to shift efforts to e-mail and direct mail once a new federal "do-not-call" list takes effect in October, according to a published report.
As of Tuesday morning about 12.5 million Americans have signed up to block phone solicitations in the first four days of the program, according to the Federal Trade Commission. Solicitors who call homes on the list after Oct. 1 face fines of up to $11,000 per call. Another 14 million homes are being transferred from state do-not-call registries, and 60 million homes are eventually expected to sign up to block calls by calling the FTC or signing up on its Web site.
The Wall Street Journal said Wednesday that companies such as AT&T and Allstate Insurance are looking to shift some of their sales efforts away from the phone solicitations that have been central to their business plans in the past.
"We plan to shift into other communication mediums, and rely more heavily on traditional TV advertising and e-mail marketing," Allstate acting Chief Marketing Officer Todd DeYoung told the paper. "We also plan to stimulate inbound call volume by doing more directed advertising and more direct mail."
But the companies won't drop their phone banks altogether. They believe that those who do not sign up for the do-not-call list will be more open to telephone pitches and that could help their phone solicitation efforts.
"We'll be giving the dog what the dog wants to eat," James F. Lyons, president of direct-marketing consultancy Optima Direct told the paper. "Used Kleenex and cat puke."
The paper said that in addition to seeing more e-mail or junk mail, consumers who call companies on other business may now have to listen to sales pitches while negotiating voice mail messages.
Pharmas.. pharmapsu.. Farmasutc.. drug companies are starting to patent DNA. Amazon is patenting one click shopping. SCO is patenting unix thingies.
So what, I wonder, is preventing me from patenting the process of dialing my phone number?
a law saying all snail-spam must be printed on at least 30% recycled paper. hell, make it 50% (screw em with 90%!!!)
this will:
1. help the enviroment
2. create more paper recycling jobs
3. cost spam more money.
4. hopefully reduce spam!
Or more realistically, buy telemarketer's lists, and inform the idiots who actually buy this stuff (by phone/email/whatever) what the result of people giving into SPAM/telemarketers is, and how they are ruining it for everyone. Most of them probably don't even know, and it is unlikely that they read anything like Slashdot that would inform them.
I have 27 email addresses, all of which i do no personal business, and which are not registerd under my real name.I plan on forwarding all email from them to the ftc, plus sending a carbon copy to a certain california senator.
evidently he likes spam, he can have mine.
what about im spam how do we stop that. I fell sorry for my mom, she been getting 1 im every 5 minutes, that says "unless you subscribe to our service we will keep on im'ing you", she is so frustrated she is ready just to trash the computer, and it is a diffent name every time, so she can not block the name.
Any smart person would say more than half of the people in this nation would like to outlaw telemarketing. You would THINK that with a democratic society then it would be outlawed...
The system is broken...
I am posting this from Firebird and loving it. Cheers.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
It is your duty as a citizen of the United American States of Commerce to consume, to be advertised at mercilessly and to never complain once about any of it.
Complainers will be send for re-ADuctation.
You will comply.
Buy, buy, buy! Spend, spend, spend!
And you TiVO users, don't think we won't have a special hell just for you for skipping all those ads and stealing all that TV!
The building in which I work has been invaded by dozens of stainless steel monoliths which, I am told, will soon carry advertising far and wide throughout to every man, woman and child who dares to set foot in the tower. Used to be work was the one place I could be sure I wouldn't be advertised at. But then they got those damned Captivate terminals in the lifts. Now they've gotten a taste of the money they can make off of allowing advertising in the building, and they're going to take a nice, quiet, serene environment and befoul it with ads. For money. *sigh*
I guess as a capitalist I should be glad, but this seems excessive. Even in the 1980s people weren't this money hungry. Now everthing is potential advertising space, just waiting to be taken advantage of. It's sickening.
CNN reports that companies who heavily use telemarketing are planning to counterattack consumers with a barrage of spam and junk mail in October, when the new do-not-call registry goes into effect.
I'm interested in knowing whether anyone actually didn't see this coming. While no one likes, telemarketers, one must admit that the list will doubtlessly hurt many soon-to-be "former telemarketers." The Do Not Call list could essentially will kill an entire industry. Branching out into other areas of annoying advertising is inevitable since they naturally wouldn't want to go bankrupt. How else could they possibly continue working?
So then, was the list even a good idea in the first place? You can't stop advertizers with a law -- annoying people will always find new ways to get their message across.
Can't say I am surprised at the immature and childish actions these so called ethical business people are going to try. Sure they claim that they are going to rely on e-mail markiting, but I don't trust their word.
I automaticaly think of spamming when I read that they are going to "shift into other communication mediums, and rely more heavily on [tv]..and e-mail marketing." Sound like spammer speak to me.
After finally getting a really big threat to their "business" they decided to move their harassment online. Just like spammers, they don't give a shit about us, they think we are their mindless slaves with nothing to do but listen to them and consume, they want to pass the cost of the crap they will send onto us, etc.
Funny thing is I wonder if they are ready for people who will make use of their state's anti-spam laws and bill them. Then again, I expect the telespammers to act like the typical spammer by trying to hide their scam/business. Then again, the telespammers have been doing is for quite some time already.
Another funny thing is I wonder if these "people" who made the threat are higher up on the job chain, if so I bet we will be seeing telespammer employees being laid off. You don't need all those employees when all you need is at least one spammer to do the work for you.
Fare as I am concerned they are not trustworthy, and they are now shifting to being spammers.
i just had an idea.......what if we started a realtime black list (rbl) for voice spammers. Hook it into your answering machine / caller id unit, and if the rbl tags the incoming # as a known voice spammer, it doesnt ring your phone and instead plays the SIT tones followed by a profane precorded message of your choice.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
more regulation of other kinds of direct marketing...
1) Telemarketing, started with states, now it's federal
2) Spam, see California (other states?)... eventually it will be federal
3) Junk mail, currently self-regulated (Direct Marketing Association)... if they stop regulating themselves, we may see the same kind of last-resort gov't regulation here. Except that the USPS relies on revenue from the vultures.
It would be nice to get those bastards completely out of our lives... but I won't hold my breath.
Lately there has been a lot of commotion regarding the National Do Not Call list. Why is there no movement for a National Do Not Spam List? Spurred on by constituents angry about in-boxes full of spam, Senator Charles Schumer (D-New York) plans to introduce new antispam legislation that would create a national "no e-mail" list similar to the recently enacted do-not-call lists aimed at curbing telemarketers. Lets show support for this and put a stop to spam Write your congresspersons and tell them to stop spam http://www.congress.org/congressorg/dbq/officials/ directory/directory.dbq?command=congdir
The last time I heard, marketing was about wooing the consumer, making them like you, and your product... Now it's a "battle"? WTF!
Or did anyone else read the subject as "Terrormarketers Plan Counterattack?"
Imagine: He actually suggested a useful, contructive idea!
Anyone have the home address for one James F. Lyons?
http://yetanotherpoliticalrant.blogspot.com
The people spoke amongst themselves and the City Council and it came to be that the zoo would no longer be free. We would have ticket counters and an admission fee. We knew the troublemakers would go somewhere else if they had to pay to get in, and if they were caught misbehaving, they would have to pay again if they wanted back in. It worked. We hated to lose our "free" zoo, but it had to be.
I hate to think of internet mail-server routing services no longer being free, but we may well get pushed into this because it may be less expensive to deal with a payment system than it is to deal with spam.
At least one advantage I can think off right off the bat with a payment system is that someone pays... that means someone is accountable for what got sent, and if fraud is involved, there is a direct monetary theft involved. A shopping mall can haul you into court over a shoplifted candy bar. So even if the payment is not much, it *is* a payment and incurs accountability.
It really bugs me to be forced into this train of thought, as I would much rather consider infrastructures to be public property. But, like the zoo, a pricing strategy may have advantages for controlling unruly pests.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
That's my problem. I had my number changed about 6 months ago and now I get at least one call per week for Jose Rosales. Most of them are in spanish. After I argue with them about who I am not. I get to wait another week for them to call back.
Now hand over your CC number, shut up, sit down, and consume.
Yay me!
I should also note that Allstate is Sears is the company that back in 1995 was sued by its own middle-level executives, because top-level management sent them to Scientologist "training" that said "cheat the customer", and they quit the training and were fired.
.
You can google for that one... but it's out there, and it was in the newspapers at the time. So if you buy Allstate, expect to be cheated.
But for me, what really caught my notice is that they think I'm a dog. Okay. But keep your spam away too.
- . - . -
I should also note, while I'm at it, that Allstate is by no means the only dishonest/evil insurance company. You have to be careful. For example: do not become a partner of Lloyds of London. Lloyds was discovering that all their asbestos insurance was a huge liability, so they suddenly opened their insurance to new "partners", who were relatively new multimillionaire Americans, and then switched the documentation so the asbestos liability went to them. When the Americans sued (there were about 8 of them), they were all mysteriously murdered within a year. The last I heard was that the heirs of one of them continued the suit, but the law offices of their lawyers, one of them in James City County, were all mysteriously burgled, and the documents stolen. So... umm... realize that Lloyds is owned by murderers before you do business with them. [That was from the Daily Press of Newport News, about 1996].
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Capatial One just does note seem to get the hint I'm not interested in their dumb credit card. I have been known to get two applications in a single day. So I now take the envalopes, fill them with some gravel from the condo grounds, seal it, and send it back. Thay have to pay for the postage and it makes a mess when they open it in the processing centre.
Perhaps they will get the clue.
This is less impressive than it might seem. Optima Direct is a business unit of the ad agency Rapp Collins Worldwide, which is in turn part of the Omnicom Group. Pat Sloan, the public affairs director of the Omnicom Group, can be reached at PublicAffairs@OmnicomGroup.com, or by phone at (212) 415-3600.
Optima Direct itself is a small office in Vienna, VA, near the Tyson's Corners mall just outside the Beltway.
8100 Boone Blvd., 3rd Floor
Vienna, Virginia 22182
800-722-1725
"Contact us at answers@optimadirect.com for more information.", they write.
They "are not a call center"; they contract work out to other call centers:
So Optima Direct itself doesn't employ the armies staffing the phone banks. They outsource the dirty work.
Their "VP of Client Strategy", Jennifer Palus, is also an officer of the American Teleservices Association, the telemarketer's lobby. They're fighting the FTC's do-not-call list. ("FTC Votes to Eliminate 2 Million Jobs"). She can be reached at (703) 610-0450, or at jenniferp@optimadirect.com
Last July 16th, the FCC said that telephone companies can now sell/trade your CPNI (Customer Proprietary Network Information) to other companies. This information includes any personally identifiable information such as, what numbers you dial every month, for how long did you talk to them, what services you subscribe too, how much you pay, and ANY other information on your phone bill. If you don't wish this information to be sold call your telephone company and tell them they cannot sell your CPNI. References: Epics page: http://www.epic.org/privacy/cpni/ fcc gov, check under 2002 headlines, july 16th. http://www.fcc.gov Basically what happened is that the FCC said that instead of being an opt-in thing (they had to ask for your express permission to sell this stuff), its now opt-out (you have to tell them not to, or else they can). Several phone companies actually mailed thier customers about this and said if you dont tell us, we will sell it (see epics page). Basically this is stuff you need a police warrant for, able to be sold to nearly anyone. Bad Bad stuff.
Solution
The behaviour of spammers seems more and more consistently malicious. They are not only becoming bolder, they are becoming downright fucking mean.
Sometimes I think just a fine wouldn't be enough punishemnt, not even jail, but to have somebody beat the crap out of these individuals every day, beat them senseless on a regular basis for educative purposes. And sometimes I don't think of this just as a joke.
Sigged!
These idiotic telemarketers are as immature as 3-year-olds! This is actually their thought process: "They got annoyed at our telephone solicitations and are going to shut us down, so we'll retaliate by spamming them with e-mail, which hasn't been regulated yet." And this is our thought process: "We didn't want your crap when you offered it over the phone, and we certainly don't want your crap now that you're going to spam us over the net because we stopped you from spamming our phones. Won't you just go bankrupt already?!"
Cyde Weys Musings - Scrutinizing the inscrutable
Ah yes, the infamous Nuremberg defense. Historically it has a poor success rate, you might want to switch to the Chewbacca defense - I hear that works.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
Does anyone know exactly how those autogenerating programs work? Is it a dictionary search, or an alphabetical (aaaaa@, aaaab@, aaaac@, etc.)? I have a hotmail account that is nothing more difficult than my first name and last name @hotmail.com, neither one that unique. I have never in the 2+ years I have had that account received any spam. True, I only use it at reputable businesses and with friends, but still...am I just lucky?
Public use of any portable music system is a virtually guaranteed indicator of sociopathic tendencies. -- Zoso
The reason customer service has gone by the wayside is because customers will usually choose price over service, even if the price difference is negligible. This forces more companies to choose the low-ball route, and telemarketers are much cheaper to train, pay, and retain than customer service agents.
So remember that the next time you buy something from the large chain grocery instead of the corner market, or Best Buy instead of the local electronics shop. If you really want customer service as much as you say you do, you'll make that the number one factor in buying decisions, price second (not the other way around).
Chris
mentioned in the CNN article can be viewed here.
Return the same favor to the telemarketers, like this guy did.
To me it seems like it would benefit telemarketers to have a list of people who do not wish to receive calls from them. These people do not make purchases to begin with so it is just a waste of time and money. If you take people off the list who will never buy anything, you are left with a list of people who have a higher chance of buying something, and you can better target them. Same thing goes for junk e-mail. It doesn't make sense for a spammer to waste time sending e-mail to someone who will never purchase their product or service. If anything, telemarketers should be rejoicing now that their target market has become more concentrated with potential buyers.
Scott
And it's not very hard. this search gave at least 10 pages of hits.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
heh heh i can take it like unlik all you whimps can't. i'm real, send me your thoughts at pat_isbell@hotmail.com
Phone: *ring*
Cthulhu: Hello?
JF Lyons: Hi there, Mr. Khooloo, I calling you because I want to give you what you want to eat! Interested?
Cthulhu: Why yes, I am a bit peckish...
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
For Spammers, I munge all Web-visible addresses, use SpamCop, and ban any servers that get through from ever sending to any of our 4500 customers.
For phone Spammers - I have no land-line, just PCS, so I get no phone-Spam (knock on wood). I do like the idea of having a voicemail message that is a modem screech, however...
What is it with these companies, why do they hate us so much that they send this spam? Why are they so keen to scare us away from doing business with them?
As far as Im concerned any organisation that sends me spam is basically saying "Im desperate and Im selling a crap product".
If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done?
3. An anonymous death threat. Not directed at me personally, but still it was coming to the family phone number. He informed me that he was "sharpening the knives" among other things.
2. Some chick who wanted me to repair a wheelchair, because that was obviously what I do. (It's not.)
1. Some guy calling from Tokyo and wanted to know if I was interested in the stock market and trading. (I live in Sweden, btw.)
And it's the same as for email addresses. Protect it savagely.
My friends and family know my home 'phone number and my primary email address. The only company that knows my phone is my telco, and I made sure to tick the "Don't even think of publishing or sharing it" box. My primary email is postmaster@my.domain.com, which is an address that spammers (demonstrably) avoid (they like sales@ though). Companies that insist on having a home 'phone number for me, e.g. my credit card issuer, get given their own number, just as they get postmaster@their.domain.com or uce@ftc.gov for an email address if they have no legitimate reason for knowing it, or their.company@my.domain.com if I do need to hear from them. Funnily enough, I haven't had a single telemarketing call or piece of spam to my home phone or primary email address in three years since I decided on this policy, switched telcos and bought myself a domain.
It is within your power to protect yourself.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
wow, now that'll really get me to buy someting. ::rolls eyes::
Gyrate Dot Org - "Where high-tech meets low-life"
I had one lady hooked, asking questions about warranty, return procedures, etc. Then I would say "hold on, somebody at the door" and put the phone down for a few minutes, and come back for more questions.
Finally, after about 25 minutes of this, I asked a question the drone did not have a script for, and the supervisor came on the line. Asked her a few questions, finally got tired of it all, and said, "You know what? I changed my mind. I don't want it after all. Thanks, bye."
I did not receive another telemarketer call for over a month. (Usually got them once a day...)
And before you go on about, telemarketers are human too, I used to work as one, etc. Well, I'm human, wish to be left alone, and if polite requests don't work, then this is war. TFB.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
BlackHat = Evil hacker/cracker
Whitehat= Good hacker/cracker
RedHat = Linux Distro
Asshat = Spammer
Cool. I like it.
Suppose the figure of a typical response rate of 0.001% to a spam campaign is accurate. This doesn't mean that only 0.001% of the online population are suckers - how many organ enlargements can any one person take? The respondents must be drawn from a larger pool, e.g. 1% of the population. Each sucker may respond to several spams (how could they afford that essential operation, if not with an affordable loan or attractive Nigerian business opportunity?) but there must be a limit.
If I am right, I predict that at the rate the spammers are going, they will soon exhaust the available suckers. As the response rate falls, the spam industry will shrink to a sustainable size (based on one new sucker a minute?).
When this starts to occur, we will have a unique opportunity to compute the actual size of the sucker population, based on the amount of spam they were capable of responding to.
If I am wrong, I predict that within a few years, absolutely anyone will be able to spot a sucker a mile off. They're the ones with the 88GG mammaries and 100ft members (permanently erect from wholesale v18gr8, and raw from free nude webcams), wandering around with a spaced-out look (herbal medicines), and homeless after re-re-re-re-mortgaging.
Either way, we will know exactly how many of them there are out there. The spammers are to be applauded for conducting such a bold and far-reaching study of human behaviour.
(define (.sig) (cons 'my (list 'other 'car 'is 'a 'cdr))
.sig (cons 'my '(other car is a cdr))
writing the following will have the same effect, and be shorter (hooray for syntactic sugar!)
(define
On the other hand, since I've signed up for the no-call list two years ago I haven't had a spam call since (only charity calls). The list works, but it takes several months from the time you sign up to the time you are legally allowed to start taking names because the directory of uncallable phone numbers is only published once every three months. Also, I think there is a 3 or 4 year time-limit on the list before you have to sign up for it again.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Get a rubber stamp ready folks and stick it right back to them! Fawk da telemarketers.
And I can understand why they're switching to spam and direct mail. They've convinced themselves that there are people who want to buy things, and you'd be suprised how easy it is to get people to buy from you, or at least listen to you. There are a lot of idiots out there. I quit because I couldn't stand to be part of that industry. (When I started I really, really needed the money, and I couldn't find another job that fit into my schedule.) Not only do you do something that could get you killed, but the management at these places treat the workers like slaves; scheduled bathroom breaks, no food or drinks or reading materials at the cubicles, tied to the phone for eight hours a day, denied promotions that would take you off of the phones, and forced to be as annoying as possible because there was always someone listening. The management in this industry are the ones to blame, most of the telemarketers there were college kids or single moms trying to make a buck and getting dicked around if they did well. The DNC list is the best thing to happen to this industry, but, like the scum they are, they're fighting the rights of people not to be swindled or bothered. When I was there they told us that the main office, which we give the address and phone number of, is built like a fortress, so don't try to go postal on them, it won't work.
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Brilliant move from the telemarketers. This will surely win sympathy from us consumers.
Oh no, they're gonna send us more junk snail mail?
Three words: RETURN TO SENDER.
One of the major consumer agencies (BBB, Consumer Reports, Ralph Nader's organization, etc.) needs to develop a "responsable advertising seal" as a companion to the BBB seal.
I think it goes without saying that to keep your RAS seal you can't spam. Also, no junk mail or pop-ups on the web. And of course, no telemarketing at all; even if you have a prior relationship. Of course businesses can call users to advise of service outages, resolve billing disputes and the like; but no solicitation for new service unless the customer asks a leading question, giving implied oral consent to hear about new services on that particular call (e.g., the customer asks "How do I get Showtime" and the agent tells her).
Examples of responsable advertising include: TV spots that don't intrude on the show (That means many cable networks would be denied a RAS because they burn their logo at the bottom of the screen. Product placement is OK though) radio spots, print ads, web banners in GIF/PNG/JPEG format only (no scripts, no audio, and especially not pop-ups or DHTML that makes stuff fly all over your screen).
Unlike the BBB seal, the RAS seal could be issued to non-profits and politicians as well. These groups have loopholes in the telemarketing laws. Which would you rather donate to? Charity X that has a RAS seal and never bothers you, or Charity Y that doesn't and puts you on a list?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
The National Association of Telemarketers (NAT? I don't know it might be a real group) has teamed with Alan Ralsky to collect email addresses as part of a new spam campaign. Sure they say its part of the "registration process" and attach some link to a privacy policy but I know what's going on here and I'm not falling for it. I enjoy toying with telemarketers too much.
-- Probability does not dismiss possibility --
It's a serious problem. How would you like to be accidently detained because you look like some guy on the wanted list, and end up with your body and mind irreperably damaged?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Print out the forms for phone and snail mail, fill them out, mail them in, and wait 3 months.
Seriously, this really works -- my wife and I were to the point where we just turned the ringer on our phone off. Shortly after the 3 month mark, calls dropped off dramatically (like, from 10-20+ per day to 1 per week), and mail fell off shortly thereafter. The only people that spam my phone now are the fucking politicians...
If these dirt bags decide to start sending snail mail I'm sure they will include postage paid return envelopes. You know, the envelopes that you don't need to put a stamp on if you send them a check or subscribe to their crappy services. Well, just send the envelope back to them empty or with whatever you wish to enclose in it. They end up paying the postage. That should end the snail mail pretty quickly. LouSir
Businesses are supposed to provide products and services, not shove them down our throats. It is our choice what we buy anyway, isn't it?
In Bushland (Amerika), what you buy CHOOSES YOU.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
What? The the do not call register page asks for phone number and email address, which can be a once-used hotmail account if you really are paranoid. How does this help the spooks in the least? I'm pretty sure the Total Information Awareness project is more interested in the database the phone company keeps, which keeps a record of every phone call made (not the actual conversation, but that this number called that number at such and such a time for so long).
How's this for an idea? If the Direct Marketing Association is going to bombard me with more junk in my snail mail box, then I'm buying myself a paper shredder and make myself a bunch of free packing material. Waste not, want not. Besides the pragmatic uses, there is also the poetic justice and cathartic apects as well. Who knows, if the DMA sends me enough of their garbage, I could sell the shredded remains and make a tidy profit since the DMA will supply the raw materials and ship them to me at their cost. Could this plan be any more perfect?
It's all fun and games until someone loses the key to the handcuffs.
Nonsense. One of the jobs of a proper salesperson/account manager (or are you going to build in byzantine rules about which is which) is to warm-call their clients and advise about new products/services. "Hey, Jim, you use a lot of our WidgetTron 3000s, just wanted to let you know that the WidgetTron 4000 is now available; want me to fax/email you the new feature set?"
Sure, there should be an ironclad 'opt out' process, but in general, there is certainly a legitimate place for calling existing customers, with new sales pitches, especially in business.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Here's something that I inadventently stumbled across. I got sick of listening to redundant messages that rambled on telling me that "Bob isn't home, please leave a message at the beep, yadda yadda yadda". So, my machine simply says "Please leave a message." Telemarketers use computer systems to blanket multiple phone numbers at a time to improve throughput. The short message fools the computer systems into thinking that they are dealing with a real person.
Since the call to my house isn't filtered out by the computer system, it requires human attention and therefore drives up the cost of marketing to my house. I also get lots of "Hello? Hello? May I speak to the man of the house? Hello?". Somehow I achieve a perverse pleasure from this.
Phone spam doesn't bother me nearly as much as email spam. I constantly receive viagra and penis enlargement messages. I guess they've slapped me in the under-endowed impotent demographic. I'm against censorship and government controls, however, these bozos and crooks are destroying the usability of email. Something must be done...
-- Good judgement comes with experience. -- Experience comes with bad judgement.
I can't believe how often this topic comes up and I don't see any posts about Privacy Director (a.k.a. Privacy Manager and some other names).
Start with caller ID with name and number. Privacy Director (that's what they call it in my area), takes over when the number is unidentified. It answers the call before your phone even rings, and asks the caller to identify themselves. If they refuse, your phone doesn't even ring.
If they do, p.d. calls you ("privacy director" comes up on your caller ID), and you listen to the recorded identification (sort of like accepting toll calls). Then you can decide, at the press of a button, to accept or reject the call. When you reject the call, p.d. tells the caller something like "this number does not accept those kinds of calls", or somesuch.
The problem is that I was paying over $15/month extra to have caller ID and privacy director, but I've found a new local company (look online for one, they're springing up all over) that includes three features in the basic plan - guess two of the ones I chose.
So now I'm not getting ripped off by the phone company, either - they make out like bandits, charge the telemarketers for phone numbers, and hook them up with all their lines, then charge the residential customers to not have to recieve those calls.
As an annecdotal side note to the guy whose first call was a telemarketer; I signed up for internet service with BellSouth (who I just fired as my local phone company), and while I was making a transition from one provider to BellSouth, before I gave my email to anybody, I was getting spam. I called BellSouth and cancelled before I ever even used the service (I used the web service to check the account had been activated, so I actually got spams before I even knew the account was active!).
They denied giving my email address to anybody.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
One I'm particularly fond of is looking for the postage paid return envelopes, stuffing the rest of your junk mail into those and sending them back. You may want to remove labels that identify you first (or not).
If everybody did that it would probably only result in the end of postage paid return envelopes and not junk mail.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
I can plan a counterattack-counterattack on the telemarketers. Remember that preposed DoS attack via the Post Office? Well, I still have that Perl script in the back of my mind, and I'm not afraid to code and shoot it to a few random telemarketers' snail mail addresses!
Oh, you didn't want a thousand sales catalogues?! Well, I didn't want a thousand e-mails on increasing the size of my penis!
Zodiac Survey
That shit tone crap only works for the really dumpy software. Some software detects the sit tone at the CO level, which is detected before an "on hook" event.
Besides, TM firms are on to this ruse and can easily configure their dialers to work around it.
The only way to eliminate TM calls is to pick up and say something like "Take me off our list", sign up for a DNC list, or unplug your phone. Cutesy tricks like the above don't do squat! Trust me, I work for a company that designs software that does this crap.
What you don't realize is that these market firms are really upstanding corporations out to help the community by safely taxing the stupid people. Let's face it, the guy who gets an email and thinks "gee, they need my help? I'd better get right on that!" was going to part with his cash sooner or later. Give the guys a break, it's hard to think of things that only the dumbest of the dumb would fall for.
Fortunately, I've thought of a great idea to get money from stupid people, and I'll be happy to sell it to you.
This gives me an idea. Up here in Canada, we don't have the protection of a national "Do Not Call" registry. But it *is* still illegal to call people on phones for which they are charged to receive calls (eg., cell phones).
I see here an opportunity for the telecom companies in Canada to increase profits, while stamping out annoying telemarketers. What if they offered a "service" whereby customers could opt-in to a model where on top of their monthly local access fee, they pay an additional 1 cent for every call received. This would add up to at most a couple extra dollars a month for the vast majority of customers, but it would now make it illegal for telemarketers to call them on their land lines. People who are stingy and don't want to pay to receive calls could stick with their existing service. The phone companies would increase revenues by a percent or so, and telemarketers would be shut down.
A capitalist solution where everybody wins, instead of a politcal, legal solution. I like it! What do you guys think?
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
If you want to cut down on the cruft in your snail mail box try putting a note inside the door that says: No Marriage Mail. Marriage mail is most of the presorted coupons and so on you get. Note: This is working great for me, but it probably depends on your carrier. K
I think this "counterattack" may have already begun. About a couple of weeks ago, I noticed a huge increase in the amount of spam posted to Usenet newsgroups, as well as non-Usenet news servers.
Good point. I'm sure something reasonable could be hammered out. How do you distinguish between our cable company's bi-weekly automated "why don't you upgrade to digital?" harassment, and your hypothetical widget distributor though?
Sure, there should be an ironclad 'opt out' process
Agreed. But you would still have to allow leading questions to give rise to sales during service calls. It's too difficult (and not at all desireable) to train service people not to make sales. If you rely on a strict "opt out" and don't allow sales during service calls, you open the company up for frivolous lawsuits. That was my big concern there.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
1. You are a moron.
2. The Constitution forbids STATES from interferring with interstate commerce. The Federal Government on the other hand can do so all it wants.
3. Why on earth are you defending Telemarketers? Are you doing it just to be the worst kind of pedantic geek? Are you a loser libertarian? What is your major malfunction?
4. Boo hoo for the smaller businesses. If they wish to promote themselves then they'll simply have to do so WITHOUT ANNOYING EVERYONE IN THEIR AREA CODES!
5. I HAVE a private telephone number and I STILL get telemarketing phone calls. Why should I have to be sparse with what companies I give my phone number too? I can't control who they're going to share it with.
6. Who cares if it puts the telemarketing industry out of business? Is this some great loss to humanity? What kind of fucked up individual would actually be saddened by this? Murders? Wife beaters? Satan? The Iraqi Information Minister?
Let me spell it out for you if you do not understand what this industry stands for: The Telemarketing Industry Exists Soley To Annoy The Living Fuck Out of Every American In The Nation!
And lastly
7. We're in a democracy. So yes moron if a majority of the people approve of something then it is RIGHT to carry that policy out. If you are SO upset about it then start a "Feed The Telemarketers" Charity and try to raise money for these most vile types of human beings.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
So that's how they see us eh? As the enemy?
And what about this plan to fill our mail boxes up with crap by KILLING MORE TREES??
Well, here's somehting I found on the FTC website about telemarketing,
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/menu-tmark.htm
Someone look this assholes info up and let's SPAM and DDOS this jerkoff to death.
That comment he made calling us dogs was the line in the sand and he crossed it..
Optima Direct
8100 Boone Boulevard
Vienna, VA 22182-2642
USA
Phone: 703 918 9000
Fax: 703 918 9001
James Lyons, Sr. Vice President
Actually, i dont think the post office cares much, they get their money, and they can jsut throw all this guys mail into one sack.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Let's face it we have all been called spammed etc. The whining your doing here does nothing to fix that. You keep talking about putting all telemarketers out of business yet fail to realize if the legit ones (and yes i have worked for and managed several) are more than willing not to call people who do not want to be called and follow more damn laws than i care to mention. And to the one who advocated commiting assault or murder on an employee at one let me tell you many of these marketing companies employ older citizens unable to work in any other compacity or college kids trying to earn some money while in school...good plan genius. And no I don't think or like telemarketing but get it straight you need to separate illegal harasssing telemarketers from professionals before you make a fool of yourself again.
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:0XCFd4wDTcwJ: donotcall.gov/FAQ/FAQConsumers.aspx+site:donotcall .gov+insurance&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
If you look in Google's cache, the Do Not call site used to read:
"Exempt business include:
- long-distance phone companies
- airlines
- banks and credit unions; and
- the business of insurance, to the extent that it is regulated by state law."
Oddly enough, this text is no longer on the web site:
http://donotcall.gov/FAQ/FAQConsumers.aspx
Heh. Nice:
Domain name- ONETWOSEVENDOTZERODOTZERODOTONE.COM
Nameservers-
Start of registration- 07/01/03 00:00:00
Registered through- 07/01/04 00:00:00
Registrant Contact-
In Soviet Russia Jokes, Inc.
Agent Smith (root@localhost)
888-555-1212
FAX- none
One Timbuktwo Way
Timbuktwo,
SU
Administrative Contact-
In Soviet Russia Jokes, Inc.
Agent Smith (root@localhost)
888-555-1212
FAX- none
One Timbuktwo Way
Timbuktwo,
SU
Billing Contact-
In Soviet Russia Jokes, Inc.
Agent Smith (root@localhost)
888-555-1212
FAX- none
One Timbuktwo Way
Timbuktwo,
SU
Technical Contact-
In Soviet Russia Jokes, Inc.
Agent Smith (root@localhost)
888-555-1212
FAX- none
One Timbuktwo Way
Timbuktwo,
SU
If marketing to these companies is a battle, then I believe these people are quite sick. You'd think they would not want to piss off potential customers. Isn't the whole point of marketing to get people to like your company and its products?
Hmmm... Let's see, you've got a recording of a horribly bad telemarketing pitch from Disney. I notice that disneysux.com is available. Looks like a match made in heaven to me.
Seems a bit counter productive if you ask me. I always like to "counterattack" people I am trying to sell something to.
I have to laugh at this. There are many of us (like myself) that said to hell with it years ago and wrote spam filters (mine is just guilty until proven innocent it's worked fine for 5 years now.) and where done with it. That and the post office is very firm in it's statement that it is _not_ 'junk' mail as all of that crap helps keep the cost of stamps down. I think the solution is simple. The post office should jack up the cost of bulk mailings! The post office makes more money from increased price _and_ volume and I actually concider mailing gramma a card as opposed to e-mailing it!. Seriously though, even though I signed up, most of my calls fall into the beg^H^H^H non-profits soliciting funds for worthy causes. I swear, _those_ lists are sold to other non-profits. That and through the old change-your-middle-initial trick, I've been able to track a number of magazines-for-poor-cancer-kids places to bulk mail (they claim it's the magazine company selling it... could be, but nice cover). I guess I'm all for it, but I think I'm going to just have to hack an guilty-until-proven-innocent answering machine and give the smucks calling me from numbers that don't show on caller-id a pin.
I just keep going "meow meow meow meow meow" until they hang up. I've never had a telemarketer stay on the line after more than 50 meows.
My ISP (Optimum Online) allows 5 email addresses per account. Long time ago I created an address and then forgot about it. I did not use it for ANYTHING. A year later I re-discovered it and lo and behold, it had about 50-60 spams in it. I guess it was kind of a brute force spam attack, cuz they couldn't have gotten it from a dictionary... Or another possibility is that the ISP sells it's user list.
Anyway I was wondering what's the effect of posting one's address in a forum such as slashdot. Well, let's give it a try, here it is: slashdot@hates.ms
Cheers
If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
Is this for real, or the same as that "defacement contest" or one of those Department of homeland security declarations of "Possibly some terrorist activity though we don't know when or where and not even totally sure of if but we just got this feeling yo"
Spam away, spam away.
On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
Welcome to corporatism. God help America.
Its simple. Every thousandth call or so, if someone actually listens to the pitch, they give the person $1000. Word would spread pretty fast and I think people would be scrambling to get themselves off the DNS list. This would make signing up for the list the equivalent of telling someone not to send you free lottery tickets, which I think most people would not do. This way if someone (like myself) really doesn't want to deal with them, they are still protected, but the industry remains a viable one.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, this is just a tribute.
My inbox is already full. I give up. email is useless. Maybe our govt. for the peeps and by the peeps will allow a rewrite of SMTP verbs and props. Until then, you'll need to call me on the phone or put a stamp on it. Blech
I wonder what other loopholes the telemarketers will find? Have a nice weekend.1) Made me pay *before* they would even send me the forms to sign up for their service. 2) The volume of tele-marketing calls to my home actually went up after I signed up for their "service", and the volume of calls remains that way to this day, more than a year after I signed up.
All in all it was a complete waste of time and money.
Better, I got a machine that requires a person push a particular number to verify they are not a telemarketing service or add me to their do not call list under penalty of law for calling back if they are.
The auto-dialer systems can't get through it and the human telemarketers understand the rules and that I'm looking to collect some small claims lawsuit money if they give me a go.
I haven't had a telemarketer call in months. It's called a "screen machine" and it's the best $50 I ever spent.
Telescum: Hi sir/madame/other, my name is marge
:Hi, my name is john I'm with AT&T, I'm calling about your phone account
...
you: fuck you marge
telescum: excuse me?
you: what are you wearing baby?
telescum: you can't say that to me!
you: you called me, bitch, this is the abuse hotline, your free 30 seconds are up please give me a credit card number
*click*
one to use on the pushy psuedo authoritative men
telescum
you: I have no business relationship with AT&T cocksmocker
telescum: (most men will ignore the first insult I've found) did you know you're paying too much for your long distance?
you: get a fucking job
telescum: I'm calling to offer you blah blah on blah blah
you: throw in a blowjob and I'm all yours
telescum:
you: what are you wearing john
etc
I don't get many calls anymore, which is a shame because it was incredible fun while it lasted.
Llyods1, Truth about Lloyds.
Its all about business and when you tell them calmly WHY you will not be supporting them or any of their subsidiaries then it gets the point across eventually. Blaming it on the marketing agency is a silly thing to hear and then perhaps you are "allowed" to open up a bit of the sarcasm. After all, such childish illogic as, "its not us, its our ad agency" really is hard to justify as warranting a valid response.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could charge all Telemarkets $0.25 for every call to you just like 1-900 numbers.
Alan Ralsky for one is not sitting back idly. I filed a complaint with the Michigan AG's and the FDA over some of his pill scamming spam.. and got this via email.
This is amusing.
From: Klwat4u@aol.com
To: email address
Subject: looking for you
Is this (insert my name) from (insert my town) on (insert my street), I need to talk to you in regards to a email you sent. Please get back to me ASAP. Ray 248-867-4054
Ray Allen Fox
Sales Manager
City Energy
248-784-3803
the phone off the hook until sone one picks up on the telemarkter end. They'll waste time and $$ finding dead air :-)
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
it doesn't matter if there is 0 response. The spams have already gone out, and even if he doesn't try again, there are thousands of other idiots willing to take his place.
But I've already gotten thousands of spams. Some of them MUST be repeats. So this 'new spammers' theory is wrong.
It's great that so many people have so many ideas on how to avoid recieving unwanted calls. The sit tones, caller id, etc.
Here's the real question: is there any way (besides the do-not-call lists) that can stop the barrage of annoying phone calls?
Jeremy Baumgartner
Go get your answering machine out (or program a voice mail/voice modem etc). Then record a message stating this:
"You have reached (insert phone number) For personal calls, please leave your name and number for I.D. purposes. For marketing puropses, please note that all marketing calls are charged at a rate of (insert number here from $1-1000) dollars a minute, charged to the call centre. If you wish to be exempted from the charge, add this phone number to your do-not call list and hang up. Thank you for calling"
It is kinda long but it will work. Connect a Caller ID box and let it go to the machine when it says Unknown Number. For the record, I think that this would be legally binding under contract law, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have any ideas?