Learn to read. I said "Sendmail is great for everything else", which means small setups that don't have lots of users and doesn't have to move mass amounts of mail about.
Of course that's speculation, but still. I'd be laughing my ass off if it were true.
Clarification: I of course don't intend malice. I just never agreed with DJB's money for bugs scheme, because it will cause the adverse effect of what he's trying to achieve. I don't agree with his licensing either.
Like I said to some anonymous coward, you'd be pretty naive if you claim that a piece of software has no (possibly security related) bugs at all.
All software has bugs. Bug-free software and hardware do NOT EXIST
In fact, the fact that nobody claimed that award, does not mean that Qmail is bugfree. Do you really think that some blackhat will give away an advisory? He couldn't care less about $ 500, he can intrude into Qmail boxes that are deployed widely and thought to be secure. That's priceless.
Of course that's speculation, but still. I'd be laughing my ass off if it were true.
The problem is that sendmail has to be patched for a new bug every 2-3 weeks. Qmail is still at 1.0.3 and hasn't been updated for years - no security-related bugs have been discovered.
Not yet, anyway... But read on:
With the current track record I think we can agree that sendmail has had tons of bugs. Since you are claiming that qmail has them to - please point us to ONE.
Claiming *any* piece of software is bug free is naieve. Sure there are bugs. They might not be straightforward to find, but sure, they're there. You clearly don't develop much, you would've known this if you did.
What's worse is that there might be Qmail related exploits around that we are not aware of. Surely the blackhats will not disclose those bugs and we will probably never hear about it from them. If a MTA has a "flawless" security record, I'd be worried. Has anyone ever properly audited the Qmail code, besides DJB? It's kinda like claiming you've never been broken into. It might just be the case that you have had an intrusion, but you never noticed.
Also, you clearly exaggerate the rate of security related bugs in sendmail nowadays. Sure it has its bad spots, but then for years it's fine. Yes I patch and maintain the boxes I set up. I would be a crappy sysadmin if I didn't.
I _do_ use postfix, and yes I also _do_ use Qmail. I also use exim in some places. And yes, I use sendmail too. They are MTAs, and MTAs aren't complex beasts, well they can get complex, depending what you are planning to do with it. I'm not anymore attached to sendmail as you are. I'm just voicing the irritation over the brainless "Ooh, sendmail has a bug, let's plug [insert MTA of choice]" jammering out here.
About my "attachement to sendmail": It's all dependant what the machines job is. Read my post again. Every MTA shines somewhere. Qmail is nice if you have LOTS of users/mailboxes, postfix and exim are nice if you have a heavily loaded box that has to shift a lot of mail, and sendmail is just great for everything else. That's my right-tool-for-the-job attitude.
I guess you only read the subject line of my post, and then just concluded I must be some rabid sendmail user (a.k.a. Slashdot Knee-Jerk). Well, you're wrong:)
First, this is about sendmail, not postfix or qmail. Yes we know your MTA is vastly superior and yes, it does your laundry and even makes coffee.
But that still doesn't make sendmail bad. Software has bugs. Your precious MTAs have bugs too. As a matter of fact, sendmail works. It has worked for decades. It's still around. And it will stay around for decades more.
Before y'all jump up and say: "Look! a possibly remote exploit!". Read the advisory. This will be VERY hard to exploit, besides your test lab where you control the address space and eventual host naming that just MIGHT overflow something, and then you need to figure out if it's even possible to do something more fun other than let some sendmail spawned child crash, whoopdeedoo.
Although it's not impossible to do, I still maintain that admins should patch their systems, but you don't have to rush. I don't see script kiddies exploting this one in the coming time yet. And besides, my data isn't worth crap either, so I'm harly a target.
So qmail and postfix zealots, shut the hell up please. We know. Yes, qmail and postfix are nice, and yes, they have some merits over sendmail and yes, I sometimes choose to prefer them for some jobs, but the inverse is also true. Right tool for the job and all that. Now be happy with your MTA and be done with it. Geez, it's only a mail server.
Ever tried to move that big box and that hunk of cables (called a PC) to your tv which is _just_ a few meters out of reach from your tv-out and audio-out cables?
Right. I did that once. I won't do that again. The woman about the house here saw the mess of cables and powerstrips across the living room and had an aneurism.
Although I tend to agree fully on the first two ideas...
* Music (not so good to makes one want to hear the music instead of working, neither something so bad that breaks concentration)
That's why we clever people invented headphones. Invest in some good sounding Sennheisers, and listen to any music you like. I tend to concentrate best with symphonic metal, but my environment doesn't.:)
Re:Where is the unified database interfase ?
on
Introduction to PHP5
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· Score: 1
Java has JDBC, perl has DBI, Microsoft has ODBC... I am waiting PHP can get something like that !
I agree. When I don't have much time and projects to finish, I don't feel like dying everytime I turn around a corner. Enter cheatcodes. They allow me to run through the game, enjoy the "storyline" (for whatever that's worth with FPS games), the scenery and the plotlines, find out secret areas at leasure and then do some real work after.
Of course for online gaming I never cheat, because that does take away the fun. It's also a great confirmation that I suck. I like having my feet planted firmly on the virtual ground when I get too boistrous:)
Heh, I sympathise, even though I brought up the character:-) I actually knew a QA person who was almost exactly like that (tester from hell). I never developed games, but that person worked at a project involving boring database/web/cgi stuff in perl and C. Needless to say, that girl hated the product. I got my best bugreports from her though:)
It seems that games and application development have their parralels:)
Oh yes. And the "conflicts" I was talking about usually involve who's buying the beer this time.
A typical exchange:
Bro: *spots me on the roof somewhere* Ah! Prepare to die!
Me: *grin* *BLAM*
* Bro gets killed by me with an awp in the head
Bro: Hey! You can't run and shoot with that sniper rifle!
Me: Apparently I can... You buy the next round:)
Well, sometimes he smears me though. It's a lot of fun nonetheless. Heck, we sometimes even play classic quake 1 sometimes, for variation, and sometimes even Doom. Too bad classic wolfenstein didn't have deathmatch. Who says violent games make people violent? It brings people together! There's no problem a blast with a BFG-9000 won't fix.
...a good game of quake/halflife/counterstrike/etc deathmatch. Seeing my younger brother splattered against a wall in a game does wonders for resolving conflicts:)
And let me tell you... when we're bearing down on release, and you're the dude who's making the lists that keep me from going home nights, you don't want to be a game tester. What you do may well be important, but I'm still going to hate you for it. And I'm going to let you know. Loudly.:-)
[mode person=gametester_from_hell]
Well.. I HATE your current game. And I'm going to keep bothering you until I have no reason anymore to think why it sucks. Oh, and there's that annoying bug in that scene that has artifacts all over the place. There's Z-fighting in the corners! The polys are popping all over the place! It's hella ugly! Fix it! Oh, here's the list. Want some coffee? We're going to be here all night:)
[/mode]
1. lock yourself up in the broomcloset until the urge to become a game tester subsides. If that doesn't help:
2. run into a wall several times until the urge to become a game tester subsides. Oh, you're still game for the job? Well:
3. have your dog sick you in the genitals until the urge subsides. Hmm you don't have a dog huh? Oh well...
If you can stand that, _AND_ still want to be a game tester, you might be the right man/woman for the job.
Seriously, being a game tester will totally _spoil_ the games you are testing for yourself. You have to HATE the game to find the smalles bugs in it. The game is done when there's no reason for the game testers to hate it anymore. Oh, and when they can stand playing it several _more_ times.
It's not at all a glamorous job, and the beginning stages of development of a game is usually painful (for you, blech, lotsa bugreports). pre-pre-pre-alpha-tests are not end-user quality.
Slashdot Mirror
Whatever...
I answered that in a reply to another post.
Clarification: I of course don't intend malice. I just never agreed with DJB's money for bugs scheme, because it will cause the adverse effect of what he's trying to achieve. I don't agree with his licensing either.
All software has bugs. Bug-free software and hardware do NOT EXIST
In fact, the fact that nobody claimed that award, does not mean that Qmail is bugfree. Do you really think that some blackhat will give away an advisory? He couldn't care less about $ 500, he can intrude into Qmail boxes that are deployed widely and thought to be secure. That's priceless.
Of course that's speculation, but still. I'd be laughing my ass off if it were true.
Of course it's not as efficient as using a living organism, but hey, what the heck.
Not yet, anyway... But read on:
With the current track record I think we can agree that sendmail has had tons of bugs. Since you are claiming that qmail has them to - please point us to ONE.
Claiming *any* piece of software is bug free is naieve. Sure there are bugs. They might not be straightforward to find, but sure, they're there. You clearly don't develop much, you would've known this if you did.
What's worse is that there might be Qmail related exploits around that we are not aware of. Surely the blackhats will not disclose those bugs and we will probably never hear about it from them. If a MTA has a "flawless" security record, I'd be worried. Has anyone ever properly audited the Qmail code, besides DJB? It's kinda like claiming you've never been broken into. It might just be the case that you have had an intrusion, but you never noticed.
Also, you clearly exaggerate the rate of security related bugs in sendmail nowadays. Sure it has its bad spots, but then for years it's fine. Yes I patch and maintain the boxes I set up. I would be a crappy sysadmin if I didn't.
About my "attachement to sendmail": It's all dependant what the machines job is. Read my post again. Every MTA shines somewhere. Qmail is nice if you have LOTS of users/mailboxes, postfix and exim are nice if you have a heavily loaded box that has to shift a lot of mail, and sendmail is just great for everything else. That's my right-tool-for-the-job attitude.
I guess you only read the subject line of my post, and then just concluded I must be some rabid sendmail user (a.k.a. Slashdot Knee-Jerk). Well, you're wrong :)
Ah, allright... I just hope I moved by then. I hope my tunnel broker does too.
But that still doesn't make sendmail bad. Software has bugs. Your precious MTAs have bugs too. As a matter of fact, sendmail works. It has worked for decades. It's still around. And it will stay around for decades more.
Before y'all jump up and say: "Look! a possibly remote exploit!". Read the advisory. This will be VERY hard to exploit, besides your test lab where you control the address space and eventual host naming that just MIGHT overflow something, and then you need to figure out if it's even possible to do something more fun other than let some sendmail spawned child crash, whoopdeedoo.
Although it's not impossible to do, I still maintain that admins should patch their systems, but you don't have to rush. I don't see script kiddies exploting this one in the coming time yet. And besides, my data isn't worth crap either, so I'm harly a target.
So qmail and postfix zealots, shut the hell up please. We know. Yes, qmail and postfix are nice, and yes, they have some merits over sendmail and yes, I sometimes choose to prefer them for some jobs, but the inverse is also true. Right tool for the job and all that. Now be happy with your MTA and be done with it. Geez, it's only a mail server.
Right. I did that once. I won't do that again. The woman about the house here saw the mess of cables and powerstrips across the living room and had an aneurism.
I'd rather buy one of these, thanks.
Hey, maybe we should give any programmer his/her own building :)
* Music (not so good to makes one want to hear the music instead of working, neither something so bad that breaks concentration)
That's why we clever people invented headphones. Invest in some good sounding Sennheisers, and listen to any music you like. I tend to concentrate best with symphonic metal, but my environment doesn't.PHP has ODBC too.
Damn carpal tunnel syndome.
Of course for online gaming I never cheat, because that does take away the fun. It's also a great confirmation that I suck. I like having my feet planted firmly on the virtual ground when I get too boistrous :)
[click]
Don't mod me up, but don't mod me down either. This is just for convenience.
It seems that games and application development have their parralels :)
I wouldn't know. I'm colorblind.
A typical exchange:
Bro: *spots me on the roof somewhere* Ah! Prepare to die! :)
Me: *grin* *BLAM*
* Bro gets killed by me with an awp in the head
Bro: Hey! You can't run and shoot with that sniper rifle!
Me: Apparently I can... You buy the next round
Well, sometimes he smears me though. It's a lot of fun nonetheless. Heck, we sometimes even play classic quake 1 sometimes, for variation, and sometimes even Doom. Too bad classic wolfenstein didn't have deathmatch. Who says violent games make people violent? It brings people together! There's no problem a blast with a BFG-9000 won't fix.
And my brother is a marine... muhahahaha
[mode person=gametester_from_hell] :)
Well.. I HATE your current game. And I'm going to keep bothering you until I have no reason anymore to think why it sucks. Oh, and there's that annoying bug in that scene that has artifacts all over the place. There's Z-fighting in the corners! The polys are popping all over the place! It's hella ugly! Fix it! Oh, here's the list. Want some coffee? We're going to be here all night
[/mode]
*ducks away*
1. lock yourself up in the broomcloset until the urge to become a game tester subsides. If that doesn't help:
2. run into a wall several times until the urge to become a game tester subsides. Oh, you're still game for the job? Well:
3. have your dog sick you in the genitals until the urge subsides. Hmm you don't have a dog huh? Oh well...
If you can stand that, _AND_ still want to be a game tester, you might be the right man/woman for the job.
Seriously, being a game tester will totally _spoil_ the games you are testing for yourself. You have to HATE the game to find the smalles bugs in it. The game is done when there's no reason for the game testers to hate it anymore. Oh, and when they can stand playing it several _more_ times.
It's not at all a glamorous job, and the beginning stages of development of a game is usually painful (for you, blech, lotsa bugreports). pre-pre-pre-alpha-tests are not end-user quality.
You have been warned :)
On X12 (not X11) you mean? :) *ducks away to dodge the rotten tomatoes*
You should install SpamAssasin. The spam is messing with your head. :)
A truck full of DLT tapes? *ducks*