I would suspect that any data from studies on reproduction in micro-gravity would be next to useless anyway, when attempting to apply them to reproduction on Mars, a completely different environment.
Also, I see no problem with making sure that working and self sustaining infrastructure is created before introducing the unpredictable element of children to the mix.
And you're right, the first manned mission after all the unmanned supply drops is suggested to be two rockets with two-man crews, so only four people. Then as those four built more and more infrastructure additional personnel would be sent.
"Certainly, the first colonists would be exposed to multiple challenges, from physical rigor to psychological strains due to isolation and uncertainties. However, the astronauts will have undergone psychological profiling and training before embarking on the mission, and would remain in constant contact with Earth via normal channels such as email, radio and video links. In the era of modern communications they would in fact feel more connected to home than the early Antarctic explorers (who had no systematic psychological training either)."
From what I've read, most plans for Mars colonization don't include any sort of breeding population until after an establishment of a sustainable settlement. If you read the entire proposal you'll see:
"Crew selection for the initial manned mission would have to take into account several factors. Initially, colonists may be preferred who are beyond their reproductive age, because their life expectancy is likely to be 20 years or less, and secondly, the first settlers will endure some radiation damage to their reproductive organs, both during the trip to Mars and on the Martian surface."
reproduction is discussed much later:
"Over time, the human contingent on Mars would slowly increase with follow-up missions. Several cave-centered biospheres would be created, each being in constant communication with other cave-centered biospheres to share experiences on which approaches are working best. At some later time, probably several decades after the first human mission, the colony's population might have expanded to about 150 individuals, which would constitute a viable gene pool to allow the possibility of a successful long-term reproduction program. New arrivees and possibly the use of genetic engineering would further enhance genetic variety and contribute to the health and longevity of the colonists."
As for arguments about the ethics of raising children on Mars, I think you are wrong to come to a conclusion so quickly. You say that you think it is," unethical to birth a child, who had no choice in the matter, into that sort of lifestyle." but in truth you have no idea what kind of lifestyle people will have in a fully developed colony, no one does and as a consequence can't really make an ethical argument until we have more actual information.
I would say that while their entire library is science fiction and fantasy, very little of the Baen library is "hard" science fiction/fantasy. It's much lighter reading than that, but then again I probably read more Sci/Fi and Fantasy than you so it's really hard to mark where your tolerance is for prose since you cite no examples of texts you tried.
I will however point out that Tor, Harper/Collins, DAW, Del Rey, are all publishing the same quality books and authors as Baen. And you'll find that ALL paperback books can be found in used bookstores for a dollar if they're older than 10 to 15 years with a decent print run. It's the nature of the used paperback market itself.
As a world famous demagogue she should be having a larger impact on the modern news cycle than any of us. Who knows how long it'll last? *shrug* The mob is a fickle creature, and it's hard to tell if someone is going to become a mainstay or will fade into anonymity in a decade or two.
But as for impact on the world outside the headlines and politics? I don't think she'll be very effective in actually producing change.
Hmmm...I've been waiting to slip this short video to someone in education. It hits the major points of Ken Robinson's RSA speech entitled "Changing Education Paradigms" and I'm curious as to the opinion of a professional.
Is she more famous than 99% of the people on slashdot? Yeah, I'd say so. But more accomplished? I think it would be safe to say that you believe she's accomplished more than you, but I'm not sure if you could say that about everyone. Of course it all depends on what yardstick you're using to measure accomplishment. Is becoming a state governor more or less of an accomplishment than saving a person's life? Is raising a family more or less of an accomplishment than holding one together in poverty? etc... I think you get my point.
Actually since we don't know what will be required in the workforce in 10 years or even 5 years, by your logic we should teach children nothing for fear that they'll learn what you consider to be "obsolete" things. God forbid we ask children to learn to use a library when there's the internet. Or learn spelling when there's spellcheck. Or horror of horrors, learn history when you can just do a Wikipedia search. Why on earth should we put any of that "useless" knowledge inside someone's head? You are reminding me of Cher from Clueless who can't fathom why anyone should learn to parallel park when there's valet parking everywhere someone would "realistically" go.
I can't think of a class where you shouldn't know how to correctly spell nouns and use the words covered by that specialty. English may be fine for conversational topics, but technical language is just as important.
What's wrong with wanting to have sex? Sex =/= Rape.
And really, it's not like most kids can't just pull up some porn on another microsoft product and rub one out. It's fairly silly for a kid to use a sex game for that when they've got the internet.
Let's see... that was the 1950's when you were a kid...so that makes you 65 years old or more? Get off my lawn grandpa, we put you in a nursing home for a reason.
You get used to the smaller screen pretty quickly, plus once you have the maps/courses memorized, you spend more time looking at the other people's screens to pinpoint their location than at your own.
It'll feel and avoid the massive intense heat put out by the tower long before it is in KFC range. Kinda how birds don't fly into the burning man sculptures in the desert, or forest fires.
Slashdot Mirror
Agreed.
I would suspect that any data from studies on reproduction in micro-gravity would be next to useless anyway, when attempting to apply them to reproduction on Mars, a completely different environment.
Also, I see no problem with making sure that working and self sustaining infrastructure is created before introducing the unpredictable element of children to the mix.
Very good point. I'd love to do an AT hike, but I get maybe four days off a year.
The proposal:
http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars108.html
And you're right, the first manned mission after all the unmanned supply drops is suggested to be two rockets with two-man crews, so only four people. Then as those four built more and more infrastructure additional personnel would be sent.
Did you actually read the proposal?
Wait, I forgot this was Slashdot. Here's the Proposal:
http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars108.html
Yes, it would horrible if an accident occurred and people died, but the actual proposed mission is actually well thought out.
From the proposal:
"Certainly, the first colonists would be exposed to multiple challenges, from physical rigor to psychological strains due to isolation and uncertainties. However, the astronauts will have undergone psychological profiling and training before embarking on the mission, and would remain in constant contact with Earth via normal channels such as email, radio and video links. In the era of modern communications they would in fact feel more connected to home than the early Antarctic explorers (who had no systematic psychological training either)."
http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars108.html
From what I've read, most plans for Mars colonization don't include any sort of breeding population until after an establishment of a sustainable settlement. If you read the entire proposal you'll see:
"Crew selection for the initial manned mission would have to take into account several factors. Initially, colonists may be preferred who are beyond their reproductive age, because their life expectancy is likely to be 20 years or less, and secondly, the first settlers will endure some radiation damage to their reproductive organs, both during the trip to Mars and on the Martian surface."
reproduction is discussed much later:
"Over time, the human contingent on Mars would slowly increase with follow-up missions. Several cave-centered biospheres would be created, each being in constant communication with other cave-centered biospheres to share experiences on which approaches are working best. At some later time, probably several decades after the first human mission, the colony's population might have expanded to about 150 individuals, which would constitute a viable gene pool to allow the possibility of a successful long-term reproduction program. New arrivees and possibly the use of genetic engineering would further enhance genetic variety and contribute to the health and longevity of the colonists."
http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars108.html
As for arguments about the ethics of raising children on Mars, I think you are wrong to come to a conclusion so quickly. You say that you think it is," unethical to birth a child, who had no choice in the matter, into that sort of lifestyle." but in truth you have no idea what kind of lifestyle people will have in a fully developed colony, no one does and as a consequence can't really make an ethical argument until we have more actual information.
I disagree entirely.
I would say that while their entire library is science fiction and fantasy, very little of the Baen library is "hard" science fiction/fantasy. It's much lighter reading than that, but then again I probably read more Sci/Fi and Fantasy than you so it's really hard to mark where your tolerance is for prose since you cite no examples of texts you tried.
I will however point out that Tor, Harper/Collins, DAW, Del Rey, are all publishing the same quality books and authors as Baen. And you'll find that ALL paperback books can be found in used bookstores for a dollar if they're older than 10 to 15 years with a decent print run. It's the nature of the used paperback market itself.
New here?
As a world famous demagogue she should be having a larger impact on the modern news cycle than any of us. Who knows how long it'll last? *shrug* The mob is a fickle creature, and it's hard to tell if someone is going to become a mainstay or will fade into anonymity in a decade or two.
But as for impact on the world outside the headlines and politics? I don't think she'll be very effective in actually producing change.
Hmmm...I've been waiting to slip this short video to someone in education. It hits the major points of Ken Robinson's RSA speech entitled "Changing Education Paradigms" and I'm curious as to the opinion of a professional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
Is she more famous than 99% of the people on slashdot? Yeah, I'd say so. But more accomplished? I think it would be safe to say that you believe she's accomplished more than you, but I'm not sure if you could say that about everyone. Of course it all depends on what yardstick you're using to measure accomplishment. Is becoming a state governor more or less of an accomplishment than saving a person's life? Is raising a family more or less of an accomplishment than holding one together in poverty? etc... I think you get my point.
Actually since we don't know what will be required in the workforce in 10 years or even 5 years, by your logic we should teach children nothing for fear that they'll learn what you consider to be "obsolete" things. God forbid we ask children to learn to use a library when there's the internet. Or learn spelling when there's spellcheck. Or horror of horrors, learn history when you can just do a Wikipedia search. Why on earth should we put any of that "useless" knowledge inside someone's head? You are reminding me of Cher from Clueless who can't fathom why anyone should learn to parallel park when there's valet parking everywhere someone would "realistically" go.
I can't think of a class where you shouldn't know how to correctly spell nouns and use the words covered by that specialty. English may be fine for conversational topics, but technical language is just as important.
So, because we have better technology we should lower standards for knowledge?
So basically you're saying that standards don't need to be as high as they currently are, and that we should lower them?
No, it really hasn't turned out well.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html
I don't think I've ever heard a good justification for lowering standards.
when you're trying to discourage games that encourage the making of families. It's more monk friendly.
What's wrong with wanting to have sex? Sex =/= Rape.
And really, it's not like most kids can't just pull up some porn on another microsoft product and rub one out. It's fairly silly for a kid to use a sex game for that when they've got the internet.
Let's see... that was the 1950's when you were a kid...so that makes you 65 years old or more? Get off my lawn grandpa, we put you in a nursing home for a reason.
You get used to the smaller screen pretty quickly, plus once you have the maps/courses memorized, you spend more time looking at the other people's screens to pinpoint their location than at your own.
So you don't ever have friends over to your house/apt to play games, be they card games, board games or video games? Isn't that kinda lonely?
It takes several days and nights of little to no sunlight for the salt to cool down enough to no longer be molten and useful.
It'll feel and avoid the massive intense heat put out by the tower long before it is in KFC range. Kinda how birds don't fly into the burning man sculptures in the desert, or forest fires.