No, the press looks bad, not NASA.
When Grotz said it was gonna be one for the history books, he meant the mission as a whole not the latest SAM findings.
Unfortunately, this means that Grotz or any other MSL project scientists will be very very disinclined to talk to the press, alas.
There is some good science being done and the Good Stuff will be when Curiosity reaches the clay layers at the base of Mt Sharp, so be patient.
There is also the minor mystery of the chlorinated methane products...
Get your facts straight before you fly off the handle.
Neither NASA or JPL said anything about earth-shattering or breakthrough. Nothing. There was no official announcement of the kind. There were just a few off-the-cuff remarks by the chief scientist (Grotzinger) made to Joe Palca of NPR about MSL being a landmark missions and how the mission would re-write the history books. But then it was the press and bloggers who blew this way out of proportion.
WRONG! "They" are not trying to anything of the kind. There was no official (or otherwise) announcement of any SAM results. Not a peep. This whole ridiculous issue was based on a simple, offhand, ambiguous remark by Grotzinger. I am SURE that Grotz seriously regrets saying anything to Palca.
According to this French site (as related on http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ Michael Cabane, scientific co-investigator on SAM says that there is no spectacular findings from the SAM instrument:
http://www.cieletespace.fr/node/9823
I think that the announcement, if any, will concern hydrated minerals at Glenelg, possibly newly hydrated minerals such as salts. A Big Deal for planetary geologists, but not a bio-signature.
Exciting to a geologist...probably some sort of sedimentary rock dust. I am trying to think of rocks that would excite geologists...maybe silica, opal, carbonate, shale, wait, wait CLAY... Maybe SAM found clay! Not too surprising considering MSL's location, but a nice find anyway.
If so, MSL will beat Opportunity to the clay...
All that SAM has analyzed so far is a mini dust/sand dune so I don't see how complex organic compounds could possibly be preserved. UV, perchloates, solar wind, etc. should have broken any of these down, but I think that carbonates will be preserved.
But carbonates would not be an earth-shattering discovery. If fact I think that it has already been detected or theorized to be in Martian dust so this is a bit of a mystery. And it has been seen by the Spirit rover and from orbit, albeit in small amounts.
too exciting to the rest of us unless we are geologists. Personally I would be very excited by organics or even just carbonates but the short-attention-span, scientifically-illiterate public might snooze.
But remember, no matter what the results are, the mission has been a big success. Just because Mars may not be what we want it to be, doe not make the mission a failure.
Mission after mission, eh?
Which missions? I can only think of one two-lander mission; Viking Mars mission (1&2) in 1976. Nothing since then.
There was the ill-fated British Beagle lander, but that was underfunded, seriously under-tested, and probably hopeless. It cratered.
Life-seeking missions would have to drill under the surface and then be able to perform a battery of tests. Not an easy task.
But....first MSL has to detect methane and then it has to get enough to run the TLS isotope detection.
Also enhanced C12 suggests life but this is based on Earth life. Maybe Mars life is different, if it even exists.
Also a baseline for the a-biotic Mars C13/C12 ratios for Mars needs to be established which not easy either....
The significant part of the observation will be the C13/C12 isotope ratio. Curiosity's SAM/TLS device can sort out carbon (and oxygen) isotopes. Enhanced C12 would suggest a biological source.
Actually JPL should send MSL (Curiosity) clones to other places on Mars such as Mawrth Vallis (especially here). Sending MSL to Europa would be problematical because of the RTG; what happens to it when the mission ends? Could it kill putative Europeans? If you sent it to Titan it would boil away a hole in the ice and disappear or sink in a lake.
A meteorite has got to be number 2 on the list after something that fell off the rover/landing system. They are all over the place at Meridiani (Oppie's landing location), and there is nothing like 3 billion years of very, very dry wind erosion to uncover and polish those bad boys....
Everything else is way way way down the list of possibilities....
I do this all the time with phone solicitations...string them along as long as possible and waste their time. It really, really pisses them off when they finally find out. I wonder if that would also work with Nigerians scammers
Ah but how many of those convicts lived? And how many of those convicts were really criminals? Many were just starving peasants who stole a loaf of bread to feed their family, hardly dangerous criminals....although I cannot say I like the look of their Rugby teams...(not that England's rugby teams are any more savory)
That is comment is ignorant and ill-informed. The employees are working for CALTECH / JPL, the among the best engineers in the world. It is really easy to criticize after the fact, but the MSL is very complex machine and there are bound to be glitches. So far everything has gone pretty much as planned; compare that to the Russian Mars mission which ended up at the bottom of the Pacific while MSL was flying to Mars before you make bonehead comments.
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No, the press looks bad, not NASA. When Grotz said it was gonna be one for the history books, he meant the mission as a whole not the latest SAM findings. Unfortunately, this means that Grotz or any other MSL project scientists will be very very disinclined to talk to the press, alas.
There is some good science being done and the Good Stuff will be when Curiosity reaches the clay layers at the base of Mt Sharp, so be patient. There is also the minor mystery of the chlorinated methane products...
Get your facts straight before you fly off the handle. Neither NASA or JPL said anything about earth-shattering or breakthrough. Nothing. There was no official announcement of the kind. There were just a few off-the-cuff remarks by the chief scientist (Grotzinger) made to Joe Palca of NPR about MSL being a landmark missions and how the mission would re-write the history books. But then it was the press and bloggers who blew this way out of proportion.
Don't blame NASA or JPL or even Grotz on this one: It is our own fault for building up the hype.
Mmm yum. Better food through science...
Try life in the "Dreaded Private Sector" and see if you like that...
WRONG! "They" are not trying to anything of the kind. There was no official (or otherwise) announcement of any SAM results. Not a peep. This whole ridiculous issue was based on a simple, offhand, ambiguous remark by Grotzinger. I am SURE that Grotz seriously regrets saying anything to Palca.
According to this French site (as related on http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ Michael Cabane, scientific co-investigator on SAM says that there is no spectacular findings from the SAM instrument: http://www.cieletespace.fr/node/9823 I think that the announcement, if any, will concern hydrated minerals at Glenelg, possibly newly hydrated minerals such as salts. A Big Deal for planetary geologists, but not a bio-signature.
Exciting to a geologist...probably some sort of sedimentary rock dust. I am trying to think of rocks that would excite geologists...maybe silica, opal, carbonate, shale, wait, wait CLAY... Maybe SAM found clay! Not too surprising considering MSL's location, but a nice find anyway. If so, MSL will beat Opportunity to the clay...
All that SAM has analyzed so far is a mini dust/sand dune so I don't see how complex organic compounds could possibly be preserved. UV, perchloates, solar wind, etc. should have broken any of these down, but I think that carbonates will be preserved. But carbonates would not be an earth-shattering discovery. If fact I think that it has already been detected or theorized to be in Martian dust so this is a bit of a mystery. And it has been seen by the Spirit rover and from orbit, albeit in small amounts.
too exciting to the rest of us unless we are geologists. Personally I would be very excited by organics or even just carbonates but the short-attention-span, scientifically-illiterate public might snooze. But remember, no matter what the results are, the mission has been a big success. Just because Mars may not be what we want it to be, doe not make the mission a failure.
It is already in the bag
Mission after mission, eh? Which missions? I can only think of one two-lander mission; Viking Mars mission (1&2) in 1976. Nothing since then. There was the ill-fated British Beagle lander, but that was underfunded, seriously under-tested, and probably hopeless. It cratered. Life-seeking missions would have to drill under the surface and then be able to perform a battery of tests. Not an easy task.
But....first MSL has to detect methane and then it has to get enough to run the TLS isotope detection. Also enhanced C12 suggests life but this is based on Earth life. Maybe Mars life is different, if it even exists. Also a baseline for the a-biotic Mars C13/C12 ratios for Mars needs to be established which not easy either....
More like 4-5 other things. Volcano's for one. Also methane bleeding off the plastics on the rover...there is a wide spectrum of possible sources
The significant part of the observation will be the C13/C12 isotope ratio. Curiosity's SAM/TLS device can sort out carbon (and oxygen) isotopes. Enhanced C12 would suggest a biological source.
Actually JPL should send MSL (Curiosity) clones to other places on Mars such as Mawrth Vallis (especially here). Sending MSL to Europa would be problematical because of the RTG; what happens to it when the mission ends? Could it kill putative Europeans? If you sent it to Titan it would boil away a hole in the ice and disappear or sink in a lake.
This is one of the oldest investment scams in the world. Who would be stupid enough to buy these...oh wait...
A meteorite has got to be number 2 on the list after something that fell off the rover/landing system. They are all over the place at Meridiani (Oppie's landing location), and there is nothing like 3 billion years of very, very dry wind erosion to uncover and polish those bad boys.... Everything else is way way way down the list of possibilities....
I do this all the time with phone solicitations...string them along as long as possible and waste their time. It really, really pisses them off when they finally find out. I wonder if that would also work with Nigerians scammers
I know that convicts were sent to Georgia, but I gotta believe that a lot ended up in Rhode Island and New Jersey...
Ah but how many of those convicts lived? And how many of those convicts were really criminals? Many were just starving peasants who stole a loaf of bread to feed their family, hardly dangerous criminals....although I cannot say I like the look of their Rugby teams...(not that England's rugby teams are any more savory)
The Mars microphone (courtesy of the Planetary Society) crashed along with the Mars Polar lander, alas. Too bad...
That is comment is ignorant and ill-informed. The employees are working for CALTECH / JPL, the among the best engineers in the world. It is really easy to criticize after the fact, but the MSL is very complex machine and there are bound to be glitches. So far everything has gone pretty much as planned; compare that to the Russian Mars mission which ended up at the bottom of the Pacific while MSL was flying to Mars before you make bonehead comments.
Read the article. The teflon is on the seals not the drill