People using Oracle will be buying SUN hardware in their next upgrade, it's what Oracle says they must use, it will be what they are using - that's the whole point of buying Oracle, they take the blame if it doesn't work, but you *must* buy their medicine.
Oracle says that linux is fine, and each and every release of redhat is supported. That is what i am seeing. Sure, you buy the DB, no escape from that. But hey you genius, tell me, where are Oracle advertising "their" hardware? I must be missing something.
If we are using emperical evidence, I would make the claim that no one is using Oracle in corporations, because I've never seen anyone use it when working for mega corps. I have however seen MySQL, DB2 and MSSQL - but unlike you I'm very well aware that it makes no sense to make such claim.
Cool down, i was just saying what i see around. Nice to see there are other setups around, indeed, i'm glad for this, i'm not a fan of Oracle.
And your last comment about DBA - again, you make no sense. Why was an entire DB being imported on a live environment? Would you rather have had a single commit in the end? If this was such a "huge DB" (I'm thinking TB when talking huge), he might only have had the option of a single commit or autocommit; in which case autocommitting is the correct option, since the rollback tree for a TB class DB would destroy everything.
Where did i said it was a live environment? Where did you got it? Talking about an import? You seem to have a nice crystal ball.
No. Nobody's moving away from Oracle - that rhetorical question doesn't make you sound like a smartass, but rather its less intelligent opposite.
What matters to Oracle's customers who buy Sun hardware is that their databases run as fast as possible, as that's the limiting factor on those customers' businesses.
Bullshit. Who is buying SUN hardware anymore after their buyout? And after Oracle changed prices on the OS?
That's why Oracle bought Sun: to compete with IBM, which runs DB2 on IBM CPUs at the high end, the HW and SW tweaked to work best together for that operation.
Maybe I'm young, or whatever, but in all the "big enterprise costumers" where i've been working i've never ever seen a DB2. I have seen in order of frequency: Oracle DB from ~8 to 11r1 then Sybase. On this operating systems, in order of frequency: Solaris, HPUX, Linux, AIX. All of them had a DB supporting SAP BTW, and there i think Oracle is pointing.
Reducing the number of cores isn't designed to help. It's designed to leave that amount of transistors on the CPU available for making Oracle DBs run as fast as possible in the few simultaneous threads that Oracle needs for DB performance.
As I'm not a DBA i cant say much on that. Though i remember a performance problem related on what you're saying. But it turned out the DBA was doing an import of a huge DB with AUTOCOMIT=1.
Oracle is not selling CPUs to the mass market that can't tell the difference among products, mostly because they don't have a benchmark that describes their use profile specifically. Oracle is selling to customers who pitch $:TPM to their bosses. And the $:TPM buzzword is not only not going out of style, it's what continues to drive $ to Oracle.
Solaris is a great OS and you're right on the CEO part. Too bad they didnt GPL'd their SO before getting sold. I'll miss their HW/SW stack. Sad for this.
Talking as someone that worked indirectly for years for SUN, i feel sad. A lot of professional people with a fucked up management. After the Oracle deal the news were (FWIK) that every Solaris 10 and other software products like Sun's directory server, Sun cluster and others that before were paid only for support contracts that usually were included on hardware's price from 2011/01/01 will have to be licensed under a payment. And a lot of hardware lines are getting cut off, see SUN Fire series. Pretty nice machines. Ah, and for now nothing new about their storage products. Im noticing a lot of costumers from a year now, when they have to upgrade they move to vmware w redhat. Is it only me?
his goal is to overthrow all governments, not just the usa. obviously this is stupid, because anarchy is always temporary, and whatever government replaces the previous one will have its own set of crimes
True if you see it in short / medium term
so obviously, as you say, the proper goal is to reform government from within. the problem is complacency, secrets, inertia and lies. so you have to stir things up. how about: dump a bunch of secrets. this changes government behavior. it shows they can't hide, so they better just act honestly. in this regard, assange furthers the noble cause you agree with, even if his cause is loony
True, there was a change in behavior from various governments indeed. But for the worst, just talking about our "brave free democratic world": In USA seems he's being called a terrorist, Italy's foreign minister saying "the worst thing happening after 11/9", and in other "civil" countries forks are up. Maybe it's just me, but i think we're passing another era. Like with Guttenberg or during the Industrial revolution. A new technology that changes people's lives in ways never expected. This time around i think it's computers & Internet which will cause the shift.
And while we are on this, you're a human. government and companies are not. How came our privacy can be violated, yeah, security, and their's seems sacred?
Here's what concerns me. We have large numbers of anonymous individuals sending information off to some guy who they assume is some sort of hero or on a moral high ground. In actuality we don't know what Assange's intentions or internal agenda is. It would be trivial for Assange to filter information and only display leaks that would damage the country of his choice. Not just at a government level, but at a corporate / economic level. It is impossible to monitor Wikileak's integrity or transparency. Do you think if Mr. Whistleblower's documents regarding Country X are not posted that Mr. Whistleblower is going to go to the established media and complain about that?
1) Even if he get's to choose what to release or not, the fact that something that was hidden to you gets under the sun is something.
2) I dont trust him personally. As i dont do with people which i dont know in real life. But going a bit further, who controll's big monney or goverment's integrity and transparency?
I remember hearing about East Germany during the heyday. I heard that about 50% of the people were in some way affiliated with the government, so basically each person had another person watching them. Everyone was under surveillance by everyone else. Not sure how true that was, but it can't be too far from the truth, lol.
Probably true. Direct experience, east europe, during comunism there was a saying, "walls have ears".
My encrypted partition that i rarely use does not have the same key/password as my login. And no, nothing weird inside, just documents from old jobs i did and other personal stuff.
As for the right, well, has to do with real and immaginary properties. My house, car, jeans are all stuff you can touch and move. My thoughts are not.
You know the official Oracle answer for that: get a support contract on a supported hardware and they'll fix it for you.
Sadly as it is, that's how they are running the business now. They want mid-range and high-end servers and support contracts for e verything.
And so costumers are dropping (or stopping bying) SUN's HW/SW... I miss sf25k's BTW.
They dumped OpenSolaris and have repeatedly said they have no interest in the entry-level server market. I also have many bugs opened (for whitebox hardware) that have had to attention from Oracle after the acquisition.
Well, Opensolaris is opensource, so no big trouble on this. As for the low end servers, i think that they're mooving on that, Oracle just dropped the older series of both low/mid/high end servers FWIK. Though the prices for both HW and SW changed... "a bit". And SUN's HW division's future is uncertain as i see it.
Personally I think they are missing a lot of opportunities to spread Solaris, but they seem happy with those 50k paying Solaris customers. Let's see how long that lasts. As a sysadmin working on Solaris daily, I hope it does... but I'm also being realistic as to where Oracle wants to focus when it comes to servers and Solaris.
True. As a sysadmin that worked for years on Solaris, i'm sad. Let's see how it'll go.
There's another factor to add, at least on the developing countries people are not that confident on authorities as to go to police and tell them they got rubbed/raped whatever. Self justice and such. So the statistics are a bit off at least on the crime rate. Not arguing against your point, just adding some more info (hopefully)
Indeed close to what i thought. Seen that. Albania 1997, nearly a civil war. The army, tanks and migs, were ordered to raid to some cities, but most of them deserted. Two migs ordered to target some of those cities (not theirs) landed to Italy as desertors, saying that they were unable to shoot on their people.
For this particular Slashdot page right now, with both browsers opened fresh for it, Firefox 4.0 beta 6 uses 23 megabytes less resident memory than Chrome 5.0.375.125 does. It also uses about 1800 megabytes less virtual mapped memory, not that that matters nearly as much, but it's a big number in difference.
Epiphany 2.30.2 uses 11 megabytes less residential still, but about as much virtual as Chrome.
WTF?! 1800 MiB less?! And i thought firefox on my installation was heavy... BTW what SO/FF version do you use? Here, this page + another slashdot page + a FB game + other 5 slim pages all in my tabs give this on firefox:
Well, SUN is good or evil is the subject of this thread BTW. As licenses and patents go, well. Too much shit all around and too much dinosaur companies that want to keep their revenue. Sad but that's reality.
I think that GPL is the best option, but it's my opinion.
When hydrogen cars come that will be the next best option.
Zones, resource pools, profiles (although clumsy to use at first), IPMP, memory management, MPxIO. And on Sparc HW the OBP. For me this are the things i will miss the most from Solaris. IMHO Dtrace is overhyped. ZFS too. Ah, and SUN's hardware.
I want to use high end Sun hardware, meh, probably unlikely at this point.
Definitely a valid point.
I want a UNIX that doesn't feel like it was thrown together by a bunch of people on the Internet, a coherent experience.
I would run Solaris for the same reason I run Mac OSX, I want a professional feeling polished OS. I want to get things done, not play UNIX admin to accomplish what should be trivial tasks. The only time I should see a commandline is when I need to do something completely out of the ordinary.
And, as for the "user friendliness". First things i did on Solaris servers i managed was, nfs mount the EIS CD/DVS, setup-standard.sh & patch, go to sunfreeware.com, get lsof, get vim + dependencies and install, svcadm (on Solaris 10) disable those stupid printer services.
Then, setup RAID. ZFS? Until ~2 years ago you couldn't use that for boot disks, now not sure, but I wont bet on this. Nevermind the bugs but hopefully now it's stable. Hopefully the costumer has paid a VxVM license. Or, if it was a SF25K it was included. SVM? Ugly... but the last choice.
I love Solaris, not only because i was paid to manage it but because is a well thought and functional UNIX. But from there to come and say it's user friendly because you dont have to use the command line is ridiculous.
And no, I've never had a MAC just to tell that I'm not an apple fanboy.
True. They'll take some money, shareholders will be happy and such. But IMHO this move is as shorthanded as the RIAA's campain against "grandmothers file sharing".
Slashdot Mirror
It's used for the sound.
Sorry, couldn't resist
You make absolutely no sense.
People using Oracle will be buying SUN hardware in their next upgrade, it's what Oracle says they must use, it will be what they are using - that's the whole point of buying Oracle, they take the blame if it doesn't work, but you *must* buy their medicine.
Oracle says that linux is fine, and each and every release of redhat is supported. That is what i am seeing. Sure, you buy the DB, no escape from that.
But hey you genius, tell me, where are Oracle advertising "their" hardware? I must be missing something.
If we are using emperical evidence, I would make the claim that no one is using Oracle in corporations, because I've never seen anyone use it when working for mega corps. I have however seen MySQL, DB2 and MSSQL - but unlike you I'm very well aware that it makes no sense to make such claim.
Cool down, i was just saying what i see around. Nice to see there are other setups around, indeed, i'm glad for this, i'm not a fan of Oracle.
And your last comment about DBA - again, you make no sense. Why was an entire DB being imported on a live environment? Would you rather have had a single commit in the end? If this was such a "huge DB" (I'm thinking TB when talking huge), he might only have had the option of a single commit or autocommit; in which case autocommitting is the correct option, since the rollback tree for a TB class DB would destroy everything.
Where did i said it was a live environment? Where did you got it? Talking about an import?
You seem to have a nice crystal ball.
No. Nobody's moving away from Oracle - that rhetorical question doesn't make you sound like a smartass, but rather its less intelligent opposite.
What matters to Oracle's customers who buy Sun hardware is that their databases run as fast as possible, as that's the limiting factor on those customers' businesses.
Bullshit. Who is buying SUN hardware anymore after their buyout? And after Oracle changed prices on the OS?
That's why Oracle bought Sun: to compete with IBM, which runs DB2 on IBM CPUs at the high end, the HW and SW tweaked to work best together for that operation.
Maybe I'm young, or whatever, but in all the "big enterprise costumers" where i've been working i've never ever seen a DB2. I have seen in order of frequency: Oracle DB from ~8 to 11r1 then Sybase. On this operating systems, in order of frequency: Solaris, HPUX, Linux, AIX.
All of them had a DB supporting SAP BTW, and there i think Oracle is pointing.
Reducing the number of cores isn't designed to help. It's designed to leave that amount of transistors on the CPU available for making Oracle DBs run as fast as possible in the few simultaneous threads that Oracle needs for DB performance.
As I'm not a DBA i cant say much on that. Though i remember a performance problem related on what you're saying. But it turned out the DBA was doing an import of a huge DB with AUTOCOMIT=1.
Oracle is not selling CPUs to the mass market that can't tell the difference among products, mostly because they don't have a benchmark that describes their use profile specifically. Oracle is selling to customers who pitch $:TPM to their bosses. And the $:TPM buzzword is not only not going out of style, it's what continues to drive $ to Oracle.
Solaris is a great OS and you're right on the CEO part.
Too bad they didnt GPL'd their SO before getting sold.
I'll miss their HW/SW stack. Sad for this.
Though linux is getting confortable now.
Serbia?
Talking as someone that worked indirectly for years for SUN, i feel sad. A lot of professional people with a fucked up management. After the Oracle deal the news were (FWIK) that every Solaris 10 and other software products like Sun's directory server, Sun cluster and others that before were paid only for support contracts that usually were included on hardware's price from 2011/01/01 will have to be licensed under a payment.
And a lot of hardware lines are getting cut off, see SUN Fire series. Pretty nice machines. Ah, and for now nothing new about their storage products.
Im noticing a lot of costumers from a year now, when they have to upgrade they move to vmware w redhat.
Is it only me?
his goal is to overthrow all governments, not just the usa. obviously this is stupid, because anarchy is always temporary, and whatever government replaces the previous one will have its own set of crimes
True if you see it in short / medium term
so obviously, as you say, the proper goal is to reform government from within. the problem is complacency, secrets, inertia and lies. so you have to stir things up. how about: dump a bunch of secrets. this changes government behavior. it shows they can't hide, so they better just act honestly. in this regard, assange furthers the noble cause you agree with, even if his cause is loony
True, there was a change in behavior from various governments indeed. But for the worst, just talking about our "brave free democratic world": In USA seems he's being called a terrorist, Italy's foreign minister saying "the worst thing happening after 11/9", and in other "civil" countries forks are up.
Maybe it's just me, but i think we're passing another era. Like with Guttenberg or during the Industrial revolution. A new technology that changes people's lives in ways never expected.
This time around i think it's computers & Internet which will cause the shift.
+1
And while we are on this, you're a human. government and companies are not. How came our privacy can be violated, yeah, security, and their's seems sacred?
+1 if i had it.
And plus, laws are made for humans. If a law gets broken by most of people probably that wasn't a good law.
Commenting only on two points you rised:
Here's what concerns me. We have large numbers of anonymous individuals sending information off to some guy who they assume is some sort of hero or on a moral high ground. In actuality we don't know what Assange's intentions or internal agenda is. It would be trivial for Assange to filter information and only display leaks that would damage the country of his choice. Not just at a government level, but at a corporate / economic level. It is impossible to monitor Wikileak's integrity or transparency. Do you think if Mr. Whistleblower's documents regarding Country X are not posted that Mr. Whistleblower is going to go to the established media and complain about that?
1) Even if he get's to choose what to release or not, the fact that something that was hidden to you gets under the sun is something.
2) I dont trust him personally. As i dont do with people which i dont know in real life. But going a bit further, who controll's big monney or goverment's integrity and transparency?
BTW, where do you live? I mean, at least here in Italy i have never seen a bank do transfers for free. And in a timely fashion while we are at it.
I remember hearing about East Germany during the heyday. I heard that about 50% of the people were in some way affiliated with the government, so basically each person had another person watching them. Everyone was under surveillance by everyone else. Not sure how true that was, but it can't be too far from the truth, lol.
Probably true. Direct experience, east europe, during comunism there was a saying, "walls have ears".
My encrypted partition that i rarely use does not have the same key/password as my login. And no, nothing weird inside, just documents from old jobs i did and other personal stuff.
As for the right, well, has to do with real and immaginary properties. My house, car, jeans are all stuff you can touch and move. My thoughts are not.
Exactly what i thought, no mood points unfortunately
from http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Voltaire :
Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write
Compare it to the (unalienable IMO) right to make money
Indeed.
First thought i had reading TFS was an old roman proverb, mens sana in corpore sano.
You know the official Oracle answer for that: get a support contract on a supported hardware and they'll fix it for you.
Sadly as it is, that's how they are running the business now. They want mid-range and high-end servers and support contracts for e
verything.
And so costumers are dropping (or stopping bying) SUN's HW/SW ...
I miss sf25k's BTW.
They dumped OpenSolaris and have repeatedly said they have no interest in the entry-level server market. I also have many bugs opened (for whitebox hardware) that have had to attention from Oracle after the acquisition.
Well, Opensolaris is opensource, so no big trouble on this. As for the low end servers, i think that they're mooving on that, Oracle just dropped the older series of both low/mid/high end servers FWIK. Though the prices for both HW and SW changed ... "a bit". And SUN's HW division's future is uncertain as i see it.
Personally I think they are missing a lot of opportunities to spread Solaris, but they seem happy with those 50k paying Solaris customers. Let's see how long that lasts. As a sysadmin working on Solaris daily, I hope it does... but I'm also being realistic as to where Oracle wants to focus when it comes to servers and Solaris.
True. As a sysadmin that worked for years on Solaris, i'm sad. Let's see how it'll go.
If you're not certain of your field of fire, you don't squeeze. Period.
You've never played Quake it seems :-)
There's another factor to add, at least on the developing countries people are not that confident on authorities as to go to police and tell them they got rubbed/raped whatever. Self justice and such. So the statistics are a bit off at least on the crime rate.
Not arguing against your point, just adding some more info (hopefully)
Indeed close to what i thought. Seen that. Albania 1997, nearly a civil war. The army, tanks and migs, were ordered to raid to some cities, but most of them deserted. Two migs ordered to target some of those cities (not theirs) landed to Italy as desertors, saying that they were unable to shoot on their people.
For this particular Slashdot page right now, with both browsers opened fresh for it, Firefox 4.0 beta 6 uses 23 megabytes less resident memory than Chrome 5.0.375.125 does. It also uses about 1800 megabytes less virtual mapped memory, not that that matters nearly as much, but it's a big number in difference.
Epiphany 2.30.2 uses 11 megabytes less residential still, but about as much virtual as Chrome.
WTF?! 1800 MiB less?! And i thought firefox on my installation was heavy ... BTW what SO/FF version do you use? Here, this page + another slashdot page + a FB game + other 5 slim pages all in my tabs give this on firefox:
1042m (virtual) 373m (resident) 30m (shared)
Well, SUN is good or evil is the subject of this thread BTW.
As licenses and patents go, well. Too much shit all around and too much dinosaur companies that want to keep their revenue. Sad but that's reality.
I think that GPL is the best option, but it's my opinion.
When hydrogen cars come that will be the next best option.
Zones, resource pools, profiles (although clumsy to use at first), IPMP, memory management, MPxIO. And on Sparc HW the OBP. For me this are the things i will miss the most from Solaris. IMHO Dtrace is overhyped. ZFS too.
Ah, and SUN's hardware.
I want to use high end Sun hardware, meh, probably unlikely at this point.
Definitely a valid point.
I want a UNIX that doesn't feel like it was thrown together by a bunch of people on the Internet, a coherent experience.
I would run Solaris for the same reason I run Mac OSX, I want a professional feeling polished OS. I want to get things done, not play UNIX admin to accomplish what should be trivial tasks. The only time I should see a commandline is when I need to do something completely out of the ordinary.
And, as for the "user friendliness". First things i did on Solaris servers i managed was, nfs mount the EIS CD/DVS, setup-standard.sh & patch, go to sunfreeware.com, get lsof, get vim + dependencies and install, svcadm (on Solaris 10) disable those stupid printer services.
Then, setup RAID. ZFS? Until ~2 years ago you couldn't use that for boot disks, now not sure, but I wont bet on this. Nevermind the bugs but hopefully now it's stable. Hopefully the costumer has paid a VxVM license. Or, if it was a SF25K it was included. SVM? Ugly ... but the last choice.
I love Solaris, not only because i was paid to manage it but because is a well thought and functional UNIX. But from there to come and say it's user friendly because you dont have to use the command line is ridiculous.
And no, I've never had a MAC just to tell that I'm not an apple fanboy.
True. They'll take some money, shareholders will be happy and such. But IMHO this move is as shorthanded as the RIAA's campain against "grandmothers file sharing".