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Amid Controversy, EA Pulls Taliban From Medal of Honor Multiplayer

Last month we discussed news that upcoming shooter Medal of Honor would allow players to take the role of Taliban forces in multiplayer games, causing no small amount of consternation among political groups and military supporters. Now, Electronic Arts and developer Danger Close have bowed to pressure and announced that the Taliban side would simply be referred to as "opposing force." Quoting executive producer Greg Goodrich: "The majority of this feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. For this, the Medal of Honor team is deeply appreciative. However, we have also received feedback from friends and families of fallen soldiers who have expressed concern over the inclusion of the Taliban in the multiplayer portion of our game. This is a very important voice to the Medal of Honor team. This is a voice that has earned the right to be listened to. It is a voice that we care deeply about. ... While this change should not directly affect gamers, as it does not fundamentally alter the gameplay, we are making this change for the men and women serving in the military and for the families of those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice — this franchise will never willfully disrespect, intentionally or otherwise, your memory and service."

495 comments

  1. Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My grandfather died in WW2, could you please remove the Germans from all your future WW2 games as well? The Japanese, too.

    1. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WW2 has long since ended. A major part of the controversy here is that the war is still happening; there are still soldiers in harm's way or dying. This is why AAFES chose not to stock this game, in an effort to reduce the number of reminders that bring undue stress into the lives of families waiting for their loved ones to return.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    2. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in an effort to reduce the number of reminders that bring undue stress into the lives of families waiting for their loved ones to return.

      Huh? None of these whiners were going to buy this game to begin with so how are they being put under undue stress because someone else is playing a game where you can play people labeled as the Taliban? These whiners need to get over themselves. Secondly, how does this reduce the reminders when pretty much everyone who is going to play this game is going to know that this white-washed "opposing force" IS really the Taliban since all the models, weapons, etc are all the same.

    3. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So instead of "think of the children!" we get "think of the soldiers' wives!".

      If they don't want to play the game they don't have to. Meanwhile, the rest of us [should be able to] make the decision for ourselves, like grownups.

    4. Re:Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So your position is that getting shot at in a video game by a bunch of guys in turbans isn't going to remind them of Afghanistan or cause stress unless they're named "Taliban"?

    5. Re:Well that's stupid. by countSudoku() · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then you would think, in a free society, that would be enough; not stocking it at the military version of Walmart. But, no, that's not enough. In an actual free society we would have been given the choice to either purchase the game or not, then play as the Taliban or not. The choice, the free choice, is now taken from us by whiny douchebags. Period.

      BREAKING NEWS: George Lucas has now decided to recall all Lucas Arts Star Wars themed games to patch them so you cannot play as the Empire.

      Same thing. If you don't like them, don't play as them, or buy the game you frickin sheeple!

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    6. Re:Well that's stupid. by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Isn't the Freedom to put 'whatever characters you want in a video game' exactly what the 'soldiers in harms' way are trying to defend?

      Think about it. However infuriating it may be to the soldiers, families, friends and pundits to include Taliban in the game, like it or not, that's freedom.

    7. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "that the war is still happening"

      Who cares? If they don't want the game, simply don't buy it. Don't ruin it for everyone who does. There is absolutely no excuse for this blatant censorship, and quite frankly, I'm tired of these oversensitive, weak-minded idiots who can't handle imaginary content for absolutely no reason.

      Also, I'm sure there still exists families who had loved ones die in World War 2, or at least know someone who did. Or another war. But, hey, since they're not in the majority (and that particular content doesn't both me, because I only care about what I want), who cares?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    8. Re:Well that's stupid. by travdaddy · · Score: 4, Funny

      My grandfather died in WW2, could you please remove the Germans from all your future WW2 games as well? The Japanese, too.

      I think we should keep the Germans in the WW2 games, and my grandfather died in a concentration camp! He fell out of a guard tower.

      --
      Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
    9. Re:Well that's stupid. by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      This is very much a "Too Soon" situation. In another 30 years(assuming the conflicts end soon) it'll probably be fine. Even in another 10 years. Time does heal all wounds, even if some wounds never fully heal.

      For a lot of people however this is much much too soon. There are people still burying dead from these conflicts. Out of respect for those people, I agree with this decision.

      On another note, personally, I don't really have a problem with the Taliban being left in, and a lot of younger folks, and a lot of kids that will be playing this game won't think anything of it. Its just another game. The biggest concern will likely be "Are the guns really cool?"

      Now put yourselves in the shoes of a mother who recently lost a son, or a nephew or something overseas and finds her other son playing as the "Taliban" in some game online because to him, it doesn't actually mean anything, he's just playing for fun. Words mean a lot to some people, and just to avoid that situation I think this is a good call.

      Heck, I heard of a similar situation happening a few years back with a WW2 game, the womans father had died in the war and she was quite upset. Multiply that by a factor of "We just buried him less than a year ago" and then tell me what you think the reaction would have been?

    10. Re:Well that's stupid. by jd · · Score: 1

      Perhaps those wanting to reduce the reminders should also remove the "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers and every other reminder they voluntarily put up. In fact, aren't the families of those soldiers currently at war responsible for 99% of the reminders that exist? If they started there, they could eliminate almost all of the problem without ever having to go near the game.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    11. Re:Well that's stupid. by Radtoo · · Score: 1

      And who decided it was "undue"? Please prohibit all TV shows that feature weapons, aggressive behaviour, army staff or bearded men, 'cause it is not only the label "Taliban" that may remember people of the war. Besides, SOME of us had their beloved ones murdered, raped, killed in accidents etc. recently...

    12. Re:Well that's stupid. by sunking2 · · Score: 1

      If you can generate enough support around the cause I'm sure they will. Not really sure why people are so upset about this. It's the free market. Obviously EA decided it would cost them more money in potential loss of sales (either in sales of this game, or people boycotting the company in general) than they would make with it. Nobody held a gun to there head to remove it.

    13. Re:Well that's stupid. by DarthVain · · Score: 2, Funny

      They did. Its called "Enemy Territory: Quake Wars".

      Killing virtual Nazi's and Taliban are bad apparently but its OK to gib innocent aliens and monsters...

      Personally (as a Canadian) I loved the fact that in Counter Strike you could play the FLQ terrorist. I mean I don't care about the FLQ, but simply the fact that Canada is mentioned at all in a video game, and you can play that side, and the map is supposed to be in Canada, I thought was pretty cool.

      Otherwise I will be waiting for the video game of canoeing and collecting beaver pelts etc... which I don't think will be a very good game. That or a historical RTS game of the war of 1812, where inexplicably the USA always seems to win...

    14. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with you completely, I'm simply pointing out the reasoning behind this. EA is not dismissing their freedom to put what they want in this game; there has been no government interference here. They are simply choosing to avoid offending people, which is also their right.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    15. Re:Well that's stupid. by dissy · · Score: 0

      WW2 has long since ended. A major part of the controversy here is that the war is still happening

      Well the war on terror is still going strong and has no end in sight.
      So we can still demand they remove anything that terrifies us.

      Things that terrify me that I would like removed from the game are: everything

      I sure hope they don't end up being hypocrites and not remove 'everything' from their games.

      That would make them go out of business you say? Well don't blame me, I'm not the one that chose this path they wanted to go down.

    16. Re:Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are people still burying dead from these conflicts.

      There are people buring dead on both sides, and innocents as well, yet they didn't feel the need to remove the Americans.

    17. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "For a lot of people however this is much much too soon."

      Too bad for them. Luckily, they have a few options:

      1) Don't buy the game.
      2) Stop being such oversensitive, weak-minded idiots.

      Stop ruining it for the rest of us who do want the content.

      "Now put yourselves in the shoes of a mother who recently lost a son"

      The game that she doesn't even need to buy killed her son? Oh, no! Actually, it's because other content that offends other people doesn't matter to these selfish idiots. All they care about is what offends them, and to hell with anyone who is offended by something they're not offended by, or people who wanted the content.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    18. Re:Well that's stupid. by jeffmeden · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      "Freedom" is now amended to mean "Anything you want to do except marry someone of the same sex, have a different skin color than the majority and expect to not be harassed, or play a video game that might be offensive to someone if they are both easily offended and a member/relative of the military."

    19. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nobody is forcing EA to take this out; they are simply choosing not to offend the people who have expressed their concerns.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    20. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For a lot of people however this is much much too soon.

      Then they neither have to buy or play the game. Why should the actual consumers of this product have to suffer through some stupid censorship because of a bunch of oversensitive babies? It is absolutely hilarious that people will use the military service of their dead love ones as a way to impose censorship on people.

    21. Re:Well that's stupid. by tsj5j · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know what will get those soldiers out of harm's way? QUITTING THE WAR!

      Seriously, instead of pressuring EA to remove Taliban, these groups should divert their efforts to lobbying for a withdrawal.
      They're doing nothing but deceiving themselves by hiding/masking the truth...

    22. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're also free to complain, and EA are free to take action if this negative PR is causing shops not to stock their latest game.

      Think about it. However infuriating it may be to you that you can't authentically pretend to be terrorists who hate your country, EA wants to make money.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    23. Re:Well that's stupid. by memojuez · · Score: 1

      On that same token, let's disable death by friendly fire. Wouldn't want to cause undue stress of Military Families who lost their loved ones that way or remind football fans of Pat Tillman of that great travisty either. At this rate, we should rewrite all war games to make opposing sides throw soft, fluffy snowballs at each other then finish the game with both sides drinking hot chocolate and singing "We Are the World" together.

      --
      Signature applied for, Patent Pending
    24. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. As I've said before, EA is, like a "grownup," making the decision to avoid offending people.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    25. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nobody is forcing EA to take this out;

      You mean except for how that general was going to get the game banned from all EA game stores on military bases? Saying that is not trying to force them into taking out the name is like saying that being held up at knife point isn't forcing someone to do something they don't want.

      they are simply choosing not to offend the people who have expressed their concerns.

      You mean people who were never the target audience of the game and weren't going to be buying or playing it? Yes, it's great that they are bowing to a bunch of whiners at the expense of the actual customers.

    26. Re:Well that's stupid. by hedwards · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's a bullshit argument to begin with. PTSD is nasty because it's not the expected triggers that cause trouble, it's the non-obvious ones that do. And in cases like this it's largely pointless. Pretty much the entire game is one big trigger.

      Bullshit controversies like this just do more to make things tough for returning veterans as it carries the wrong message about the hardships coming back. It's not a two bit computer game that results in the suicides, it's everything, the lack of connection, the feelings about what one was involved in, both good and bad, and the difficulty of reintegrating.

      One video game is hardly going to be a make it or break it case for many vets. Perhaps if the people claiming to care about veterans affairs would actually put their energy into something useful, all that might change.

    27. Re:Well that's stupid. by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      I find throwing away the liberties our soldiers have fought and died for to be far more offensive than having a side called "taliban".

    28. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      It's not my position. It's the position of EA and AAFES.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    29. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The game is now "ruined" for you because it says "opposing force" instead of "Taliban"?

      That sounds a little over-sensitive and weak minded to me.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    30. Re:Well that's stupid. by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Funny

      In other news, the teams in counter strike will no longer be known as the terrorists and the counter-terrorists. Instead, the weapons have been removed and replaced with paint ball guns, and the teams will be known as "accounting department" and "marketing department".

      Animations of soldiers dieing and hitting the ground will be replaced with characters raising their marker and walking off the field.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    31. Re:Well that's stupid. by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 5, Funny

      My grandfather killed six Germans at Normandy. Unfortunately, this happened in 1967.

    32. Re:Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 1

      there has been no government interference here.

      The AAFES refusing to stock it is kind of government interference.

    33. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This should really have been posted AC...

    34. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      However infuriating it may be to you that you can't authentically pretend to be terrorists who hate your country

      How does this white-washing of the name stop anyone from still doing this? Everyone who is going to buy and play this game are still going to know that if they play the "opposing force" that it's really the Taliban. It's not as if by changing this name that no one is still going to know who those characters really are which is why this change is so asinine.

    35. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. I wasn't even going to buy it in the first place, but this blatant censorship is what is annoying. People whining because they're offended by content that they don't even need to view/play got it banned for people who did want it.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    36. Re:Well that's stupid. by Voulnet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The soldiers are fighting for your freedoms? That's funny; those who are trying to take your freedom live in the US, not Afghanistan.

    37. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Yes, they are indeed free to complain. However, when those baseless complaints ruin or degrade the experience for other people, it becomes a problem.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    38. Re:Well that's stupid. by British · · Score: 1

      It's done to some extent at the toy store. German WW2 planes have the swastika removed. Lego Indiana Jones have characters just called as "enemies". They still do the goose-step though.

    39. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      You mean except for how that general was going to get the game banned from all EA game stores on military bases?

      No, the commander of AAFES said it would not be sold at AAFES locations. This means you can go off base (usually there's a GameStop within a few miles) and buy the game, and bring it on base and play it to your heart's content.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    40. Re:Well that's stupid. by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      Yep, and if the government had stepped forward and tried to remove the Taliban from the game you might have a point. Freedom of expression means that the government can't send you to jail if it doesn't like what you're saying, it doesn't mean that other people can't dislike what you have to say and it sure as hell does mean that those people have the right to state their opinion on the matter in public. How you respond to their opinion is of course your choice.

    41. Re:Well that's stupid. by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      Thats a sentiment I share at times, but I agree with the decision because it could help prevent some strife in a few families.

      Unfortunately for the rest of us there are a lot of over sensitive weak-minded idiots out there. Until we come up with a gene therapy to correct this situation we have to put up with them. I really hope someone is working on that...

    42. Re:Well that's stupid. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      a) More young people die on motorcycles than in Afghanistan.

      b) Are we really helping these people by listening to their whining and telling them they're so special, that everybody should bend over backwards to make them feel better?

      You want to do something to help? Stop moping around the house, set up a few anti-war protests and do whatever you can to get everybody else's sons out of there...

      Just saying.

      --
      No sig today...
    43. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      What liberties are being thrown away? EA is a private company that has chosen, with no government influence, to alter the content of their own game in an effort to avoid offending people. If you sensationalized this anymore, you'd be working for Fox News.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    44. Re:Well that's stupid. by do0b · · Score: 1

      They could always add the CSOR as a CT team in counterstrike.

      --
      After 12 years and a few days, I finally gave in to the dark side and joined slashdot.
    45. Re:Well that's stupid. by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      I agree. No one should be waving the VA shit around as the main reason for this. Most vets won't care.

      My reason for agreeing is a bit different however. In some cases vets may be involved but mostly its the over emotional, strung out folks at home that I think would be a problem.

    46. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WW2 has long since ended. A major part of the controversy here is that the war is still happening

      Well the war on terror is still going strong and has no end in sight.

      We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

    47. Re:Well that's stupid. by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well duh. How many burned-out shells in Afghanistan have XBox 360s?

      Besides, who cares if we offend them. They're the *sinister chord* BAD GUYS! /me Removes tongue from cheek before the thickies with mod points show up

    48. Re:Well that's stupid. by operagost · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Apparently we still have the freedom to repeat progressive rhetoric ad-nauseum.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    49. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      In the same way that Wal-Mart choosing not to sell porn is an attempt to keep the industry down. You can buy it off base and bring it back on base, and even play it using government supplied electricity in government supplied housing.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    50. Re:Well that's stupid. by Syberz · · Score: 1

      I'd go further, my grandfather was wounded by Allied shells during WWII so they should remove Allies from the game too.

      The argument works both ways. Where were these complaints for Battlefield Vietnam? So ~10 years is "too soon" but 40+ years is just fine?

      --
      ~Syberz
    51. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, it's the position of a bunch of whiners who are trying to use the deaths of soldiers as a way to censor others. It's extremely despicable.

    52. Re:Well that's stupid. by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I'd like to play that in real life... Can the engineers be merc snipers?

      Best teambuilder ever in my group was a paintball match. 20 Vs 20 on a rather large field.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    53. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Except that Wal-Mart is a private business while the AAEFS is a an agency of the DoD and thus is an agent of the government. There is a big difference between the two. To claim that this isn't government interference is nonsense.

    54. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      No, we have to ignore them, not bend over backwards for them. Censoring and banning things simply because someone is offended by them is not a good way to go about things. Might as well adopt a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on many topics of discussion because certain people are offended by said topics! Ban anything offensive to these oversensitive, weak-minded idiots. Such a good idea!

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    55. Re:Well that's stupid. by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      That's hilarious. Funniest post all week.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    56. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      I don't think people were exactly crying out for it. I think it's more likely that they just "want it" because they can't have it anymore.

      I don't really care how authentic the armies are in games I play. People still love Quake, Half-Life, Unreal, Halo etc despite the sides being completely fictitious. Even the "realistic" FPSes these days are amazingly detached from reality, with you auto-healing and all sorts. Having one little piece of text being replaced isn't going to affect the game negatively.

      I initially came into this story thinking the censorship was kind of stupid, but seeing some of the overreactions from people here is even worse. It's not even forced censorship, it's self-censorship. EA made this decision simply because they're going to be able to make more money if their game is stocked in more places.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    57. Re:Well that's stupid. by aarenz · · Score: 1

      So we should complain about all books that are written with that subject matter and have them changed to "other people" in their description of any force outside of america that has ever killed a soldier and still exists.

      I will start the fire up to start the book burning. NOT!!!

    58. Re:Well that's stupid. by Chr0me · · Score: 1

      The use of "opposing force" or OPFOR changes the muliplayer component from squad based combat to squad based combat training. The designation OPFOR is for a unit simulating the enemy for training purposes. The game may not be ruined, but it is drastically altered by the use of the term "opposing force."

    59. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Banned? Who banned anything? Blatant censorship? The people changing the content are the same people that made the game in the first place! How do you censor yourself?

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    60. Re:Well that's stupid. by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      Yes, but I would call that minimal. Also not stocking something on base is not a violation of the constitution.

      I applaud EA for the statement (even if it is PR):

      However, we have also received feedback from friends and families of fallen soldiers who have expressed concern over the inclusion of the Taliban in the multiplayer portion of our game. This is a very important voice to the Medal of Honor team. This is a voice that has earned the right to be listened to.

      Whether or not you agree with the decision, those of you calling out people as whiners causing the Taliban name to be removed are missing something a touch ironic.

      Fact of the matter is, this won't change anything in-game worth caring about. EA is not removing the guns/changing the types/etc. the game play its self will be fundamentally the same thing no matter what the team is named.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    61. Re:Well that's stupid. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      NOT really. Government stores have a right to determine their stock.
      And you know that.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    62. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 1

      You mean except for how that general was going to get the game banned from all EA game stores on military bases?

      You realize that the stores on-base are a SMALL fraction of the overall market where this game could be sold right? Your argument is like someone saying that Apple refusing to allow porn apps on their store means nobody can get porn now, and Apple is killing the porn industry.

      You mean people who were never the target audience of the game and weren't going to be buying or playing it? Yes, it's great that they are bowing to a bunch of whiners at the expense of the actual customers.

      If you must be a purchaser or the producer to have an opinion about it, and express that opinion, especially when the product arguably exploits the memory of your dead husband/wife/cousin/brother/sister/mother/father/whatever for a company's profit, I'd suggest your support of EA's free speech at the expense of the speech of others is extremely curious.

      I do agree that EA should be free to offer the game as they see fit on the market, but I also support peoples' right to have (and express) an opinion about it. This is not the only game EA makes, and they have a wider market to consider - if they offend someone who wouldn't buy the shooter, have they also lost many other game sales of their other titles down the line? Perhaps, and that's their decision to weigh.

      On a personal level, I wouldn't buy this game for two reasons: First, I think most FPS games I've played are totally fucking boring. I don't like them, in general. Second, I do think making a game out of an ongoing conflict is a step or two more tasteless than making a game out of a historical conflict. I do believe you should be able to buy what I consider to be a boring, tasteless game if you want to, but you need to understand that this is not the only game EA makes, and they're weighing the demand for this feature versus the likely loss of additional future revenues, and making the decision that best suits their finances - many of the so-called whiners are also EA customers, just not for this particular title, and if EA offends them, perhaps not for any other future title that EA makes.

    63. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Yes, that is true, but the fact that those oversensitive, weak-minded idiots managed to get content that they didn't even need to view/play censored for everyone is absolutely disgusting (both EA for bending over to them, and the people themselves). Sure, they can complain, but don't expect people to listen to your idiotic complaints!

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    64. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      Because it's no longer "authentic" if the name is different! I was just kind of trolling anyway, insulting peoples' patriotism. I don't think many people who play this game really are fantasising about killing American soldiers, they only care about the gameplay (that's certainly what I care about when I play games), but if we point out that in fact the overall idea is quite unpatriotic (gasp!) then maybe they will think twice about complaining that they can't pretend to be terrorists.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    65. Re:Well that's stupid. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      If only there was some law that prevented EA from listening to the community and taking their concerns into account. Then we would have true freedom!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    66. Re:Well that's stupid. by gnieboer · · Score: 1

      > AAEFS is a an agency of the DoD and thus is an agent of the government

      So by your logic the government is interfering with the government?

      They've banned themselves from selling it, not anyone else. They also (like Walmart) choose not to sell porn in -their- stores. People are still free to own, obtain, etc both porn and Medal of Honor.

    67. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 1

      No no no, you don't understand. When it was named "Taliban," it was AUTHENTIC - it was just like living the lives of the soldiers in Afghanistan, who GP apparently believes spend all day sitting on a couch eating chips & drinking mountain dew, while holding a game controller and listening to shitty metal.

    68. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's the position of a bunch of whiners who are trying to use the deaths of soldiers as a way to censor others. It's extremely despicable.

      I see a lot of people with power and control issues rallying under "the Flag". They will kill you and your stupid liberal "freedom" for True Freedom(tm) and Democracy (as defined by them).

      They are an insult and offense to everything they purport to stand for.

      Sad.

      (I suppose this all means a clandestine Taliban add-on pack?)

    69. Re:Well that's stupid. by Guignol · · Score: 1

      I understand your point but past and present are still significantly different, for this one I do think it was mostly a stunt to get coverage.
      Medal of horror would suit the brand name better after this

    70. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      My brother died in a marketing accident, you insensitive clod!

    71. Re:Well that's stupid. by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      ...they are simply choosing not to offend the people who have expressed their concerns.

      "Expressed their concerns" - god I hate that weasel-worded phrase. Did you mean "repeatedly gone to media outlets and loudly voiced their whiny-assed complaints"? Complaints they had no standing (in the legal sense) to make, as they're not, nor were they EVER going to be EA customers. Did you mean "pressured public officials whose opinion changes like a wind-sock in a hurricane"? Did you mean "terrified the company's spineless lawyers"?

      And as for "simply choosing not to offend", that's bullshit. EA is "bowing to pressure", plain and simple.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    72. Re:Well that's stupid. by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      I smell a Mod!

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    73. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bulshit. It is still a part of history and attempts to block it out are pure stupidity. If people want to play a Taliban and get blown to bits in a video game let them have that moment.

    74. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 2, Funny

      Stop ruining it for the rest of us who do want the content.

      "ruining it"? Game play has not changed one iota, regardless of what the "sides" are named. Would you refuse to buy the game if it were named "Silver Star" instead of "Medal of Honor"?

      Perspective. You lack it.

    75. Re:Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 1

      Have you read this thread? If their goal was to avoid offending people, they've failed miserably.

    76. Re:Well that's stupid. by Discopete · · Score: 0, Troll

      And when you have a loved one in the field, coming under fire almost every day, you will have earned the right to make this comment.

      Until then, STFU.

    77. Re:Well that's stupid. by macson_g · · Score: 1

      My father is a Taliban fighting in this war. could you please remove Americans, British, Germans, Polish and other NATO forces from the game, as it brings undue stress into the lives of families waiting for their loved ones to return?

    78. Re:Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 1

      Government stores have a right to determine their stock.

      I never claimed they didn't have the right. I said it was government interference. It is quite possible to have the right to do the wrong thing.

    79. Re:Well that's stupid. by couchslug · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Knowing G.I.s, they'd likely take turns playing Taliban while on actual deployment, since a shitload of G.I.s are avid gamers and have been since PCs were first available.

      I suspect (lacking polling data) that given the typical military mind-set, most G.I.s would see the censorship reflecting complete pussification.

      As for AAFES, they are at the mercy of every sensitive cunt who wants to turn their stores into a walled garden. Back in The Day, we could buy fap fodder like Penthouse on base. With the rise of Bible Thumpers and PC housecunts in the new corporate military, that went away.

      The hassle of dealing with frothers makes it easier to just cave to them on non-mission-related issues, and G.I.s don't need AAFES for anything but food and booze.

      I miss the days of the more isolated military when civilians left us the fuck alone, and our fun was our business. Booze and whores ARE fun when you are deployed to some foreign shithole, and none of that mattered outside the military for about two hundred years. Change is not always progress.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    80. Re:Well that's stupid. by ieatcookies · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I think this over reaction is a sad fact of our times lately I have to admit that entertainment like this can lead to desensitization of an event that is current and problematic. Yes there are plenty of other examples of this, but that doesn't make it acceptable. This is not educational or enlightening, it's pure entertainment of a situation that is extremely serious for some, serious and relevant right now. I can easily see both sides of this argument.

    81. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the teams will be known as "accounting department" and "marketing department".

      bad guys only then?

    82. Re:Well that's stupid. by Gaian-Orlanthii · · Score: 1

      You're right about this. This is nothing more than artistic cowardice on EA's part. In an ideal world, after including the Taliban in the multiplayer game, EA would go on to design missions in which special forces ops are launched to track down the spies and businessmen who trained and equipped the Taliban, investigations into the politicians who turned a blindeye to their brutal reign of fear in the 1990s and a 'hearts and minds' campaign to liberate millions of Americans (and quite a few Brits) from a society of poverty, conformity and stupidity. But then, in an ideal world Afghanistan would just be a really nice place to holiday in.

    83. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "I think it's more likely that they just "want it" because they can't have it anymore."

      I think it's more of the fact that people are afraid that other things they like will end up getting censored because of whiners who don't even need to buy it in the first place. If they can play the "I have a right to not be offended, so censor everything that offends me" card, I wonder what will get censored next? Things that they decide offend them.

      "Having one little piece of text being replaced isn't going to affect the game negatively."

      No, but having a feature that was originally in the game removed because of oversensitive, weak-minded idiots is disgusting. Just because this was a small change doesn't mean that it isn't a big deal.

      "It's not even forced censorship, it's self-censorship"

      Slightly better, but not by much. The fact that they crumbled to a few people who were not even going to buy it in the first place and removed a feature for everyone because of them is what is angering people.

      "because they're going to be able to make more money if their game is stocked in more places."

      Yeah, and it should be stocked everywhere where it would normally have been stocked without the content. There's no reason for people to want this censored.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    84. Re:Well that's stupid. by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      Animations of soldiers dieing and hitting the ground will be replaced with characters raising their marker and walking off the field.

      "Marker", a politically correct word for a paint-ball GUN. It shoots a fracking projectile, is shaped like a gun, and while it does not use a chemical explosion, behaves like a gun. Yet they call it a "marker" so that over-sensitive people are not offended. Thank you for picking the scab off of that wound.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    85. Re:Well that's stupid. by lavacano201014 · · Score: 1

      By this logic, I shouldn't be allowed to refuse to sell multiplayer only games (i.e. TF2, WoW) in a little mom-n-pop store out where the only internet connection is dialup.

      As long as my reasoning for not selling something makes sense (and choosing not to sell something that could potentially offend a large number of people makes sense) then I don't see why I can't sell it as long as I'm not bitching out people that want it

      --
      A wise man once said, "Where is my other quotation mark?
    86. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      I meant censorship.

      "How do you censor yourself?"

      Quite easily! You remove content that was in your product to begin with to appease people who were offended by it. This was a completely pointless decision (well, the people complaining about the content, I mean).

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    87. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your passionate proposal for protecting the freedoms and rights of homosexuals and racial minorities is laudable.

      Thought exercise: You realize that people in the service & their families are the overwhelming *minority* in the population, too, right? What makes it okay to say "Shut up whiners," to them, when we're routinely told that we can't use certain words and phrases because they'd offend other minorities on account of certain language being "hate speech"? Seems like you should extend your concern over offense to the minority of servicemembers & their families, too.

      If you value the rights and freedoms of minorities, that should extend to the sensitivities of all minorities, not just the ones you agree with. And especially so when the minority in question is the very people whose mission is to safeguard those freedoms you want everybody to have.

    88. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't remember anyone caring about playing terrorists after 9/11. I remember coming home from school that day and playing cs_office as a terrorist. These are games, people.

    89. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandfather died in WW2, [..] He fell out of a guard tower.

      My grandfather also died in WW2, another guard fell on him from a guard tower.

    90. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, let's protect our soldiers. Clearly, what's needed is a video game proof vest!

      In truth, this is just more right wing, knee jerk, support for those who promote and use violence in order to achieve political and economic goals. If we really cared at all, we'd send doctors, engineers, police and teachers to help. The military should be there in a purely defensive role.

      There is no honor in being a bully.

    91. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Perspective. You lack it."

      Apparently you don't understand at all. If we continue to bend over backwards for these oversensitive, weak-minded idiots and get rid of things that offend them, it will have strikingly bad results. The fact that something was removed (yes, it was a small feature, but it is the principal) to appease to these idiots is disgusting. The only thing I care about is the censorship and those that want it when they don't even have to buy the game, not the feature itself.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    92. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hit enter a couple of times between the set up and the punch line... jokes in text form still need a bit of comedy timing! :-)

    93. Re:Well that's stupid. by lavacano201014 · · Score: 1

      If you really care THAT much, find the localization string for your language and change "opposing force" to "Taliban". Far as I know, EA's kinda lax on the stupid stuff like changing the names of things, but then again I don't own many EA games, so I could be talking out of my ass.

      --
      A wise man once said, "Where is my other quotation mark?
    94. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      By this logic, I shouldn't be allowed to refuse to sell multiplayer only games (i.e. TF2, WoW) in a little mom-n-pop store out where the only internet connection is dialup.

      No, only by strawman logic would that follow from what I said. Maybe you should actually read what I said? There is nothing analogous about a private business refusing to sell a game and a government agency using economic sanctions against EA as a way to get this game censored.

    95. Re:Well that's stupid. by IICV · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I like how this is almost exactly what Blizzard did early on in WOW's development. IIRC, As an anti-poopsocking measure, they would start giving you XP penalties as time went on; you'd start out earning 100% XP, but then if you played for long enough you would slowly get penalties until you were only earning 50% XP. You had to log off and wait a couple of hours to get back to earning 100% XP.

      Gamers were outraged. How dare you punish us for playing the game! etcetera.

      So what did Blizzard do? Well, whenever you started a fresh session, you'd have a 200% XP earned bonus! This would gradually wear off until you were only earning 100% XP. If you logged off and waited a few hours, you'd get the 200% XP bonus again!

      Gamers were pacified, because apparently the ones who really cared about this couldn't do math. Blizzard didn't actually make any changes, they just started calling the first part a 200% XP gain bonus, instead of calling the last part a 50% XP gain penalty.

      It's funny how stupid people are. It's still the Taliban, you're still only earning half XP after a few hours of play - they're just calling it something else so you'll stop bitching.

    96. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      no, it's called a marker for two reasons, originally they were not for sport, but for marking trees, also referring to them as guns could cause blowback (no pun intended) against the industry and players. it's not about offending people, it's about not having to fight attempts to ban paintball

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    97. Re:Well that's stupid. by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 1

      Freedom of expression is what I tell you it is.

    98. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's pure entertainment of a situation that is extremely serious for some

      Then they can choose to avoid the game. It's no different to how if you don't like a certain TV show that instead of trying to get it banned that you just *gasp* turn the channel and ignore it.

    99. Re:Well that's stupid. by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While true, your logic could equally be used to support removing the US troops from the game, renaming both groups Force A and Force B. Yet few seem to be clamoring for that.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    100. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      Booze and whores ARE fun when you are deployed to some foreign shithole, and none of that mattered outside the military for about two hundred years. Change is not always progress.

      i think you are off by more than an order of magnitude. armies have liked whores and booze since there have been enough humans on earth to have wars against each other

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    101. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when you have a loved one in the field, coming under fire almost every day, you will have earned the right to make this comment.

      The rules of free society do not end when the topic turns to soldiers in warzones. In fact, the very nature of war means that it is one of the subjects our society should be most open about.

      To say one has to be either a soldier or a close relative of a soldier to express an opinion which touches on the war is bizarre. Follow that train of thought to it's logical conclusion and you'll end up restricting the vote to the military class.

      Until then, STFU.

      Speaking of the f-bomb, we have an all-volunteer army these days. The Troops volunteered to fight in Bush's petty, destructive and morally questionable wars. They put themselves in a situation where they're likely to harm civilians for what history will probably judge to be a pointless military adventure. Fuck the troops..

    102. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, you have no right to talk about the suffering of people killed by the US military, since you don't have a loved one who is an Iraqi or Afghani civilian?

      I find that many of the family members of US military personnel make claims for exceptional treatment that they never extend to anyone else.

    103. Re:Well that's stupid. by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      also referring to them as guns could cause blowback (no pun intended) against the industry and players. it's not about offending people, it's about not having to fight attempts to ban paintball

      If you're marking trees with it, sure, call it a marker. If you shooting someone with it, it is a friggin gun. That was my point, they call it a "marker" because if they call it a "gun", people get pissed and cause "blowback". Are you even allowed to shout "HEADSHOT!" or do they make you say "I just marked you in the helmet!" or "Ouch! You just marked me in the ass!"

      Do these same people call lasertag guns "illumination devices"?

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    104. Re:Well that's stupid. by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      My brother died in a marketing accident, you insensitive clod!

      Oh, sure... they called it an "accident"...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    105. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      I don't think the Iraqis, or even the Taliban, were ever even close to being in a position to keep us from playing what we want on our PS3s. When there is a credible immediate existential threat to the US, let me know. Until then, please do not keep papering over the exercise of geo-political authority in promotion of a range of national interests with the "defense of freedom."

    106. Re:Well that's stupid. by orasio · · Score: 1

      No. They are not trying to defend freedom.
      They are trying to defend a lifestyle. Without strong intervention in the middle east, US economy would face even more challenges than it does.

    107. Re:Well that's stupid. by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you're being serious with that. My great-grandfather fought in WWI and considered himself a hero. My dad still has the rifle my great-grandfather carried. He had put notches on the shoulder stock for every person he believes he killed. The rifle is a Mauser.

    108. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 1

      So would you support my right to create a game called "Hate Crime! - the game where hate crimes come to life!" In which you, as an up-and-coming member of a white supremacist group, get to kill Matthew Shepard, drag James Byrd, Jr. behind your truck, firebomb an Atlanta church, and rape a few minority women in the inner city?

      A game like that would *inevitably* (and RIGHTFULLY) draw huge amounts of criticism. Would you tell the people protesting publication of that game to shut up because they're whining idiots, and since some people want to see that content, nobody has a right to be offended, and express that offense?

      EA has other game titles. It is entirely likely that many of the people who are upset about this aspect of MoH will (or would have) purchased other titles EA distributes. As such, this is a business decision - it does not change the game mechanics or content one bit, other than changing the text displayed on your tv screen, and it handily avoids offending a large number of people who might otherwise refuse to buy other EA titles.

      Once again: PERSPECTIVE. You lack it.

    109. Re:Well that's stupid. by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Hypothetical situation: two kids on a playground get in a fight. One, the larger of the two who helps protect the weaker kids, has the spindly brat of a bully throw some stones at him. So he goes over there and starts beating the shit out of the spindly bully.

      Well, the bully throws sand in his eyes, and he's having a hard time of it. Does he:
      * Buck up and take the pain, and finish the job, so he can tend to his wounds.
      * Roll into a ball/run away to take care of the sand in his eyes, and allow the smaller bully to kick him while he's on the ground?

      Probably not option #2, if he can help it. That's a good way to lose.

      The only way to "take soldiers out of harm's way" is to win a war. Otherwise, you're bringing your troops home without winning, while the enemy is still ready to fight. This is called retreating, and is a good way to have the enemy on your doorstep.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    110. Re:Well that's stupid. by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      What liberties are being thrown away? EA is a private company that has chosen, with no government influence, to alter the content of their own game in an effort to avoid offending people.

      You are quite right.

      Still, it's sickening. Sickening that we've created a social environment in which free speech is met with ostracism, sickening that EA hasn't the backbone to stand up to it. (Though at the same time, why should it be on their shoulders, right?)

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    111. Re:Well that's stupid. by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      a) More young people die on motorcycles than in Afghanistan.

      b) Are we really helping these people by listening to their whining and telling them they're so special, that everybody should bend over backwards to make them feel better?

      Yeah, screw those guys and their "check twice, save a life" signs!

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    112. Re:Well that's stupid. by Missing.Matter · · Score: 2, Funny

      As an anti-poopsocking measure

      I feel this term needs some clarification... and no, I won't google that.

    113. Re:Well that's stupid. by ieatcookies · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. It's not consistent, it's not even sensible sometimes. As games increase realism and are able to toss out releases fast enough to be contemporary with world events we will see this kind of issue more and more. I doubt very much the US forces will ever be removed, likely the forces support (morally and financially) this kind of propaganda machine.

    114. Re:Well that's stupid. by leonardluen · · Score: 1

      the lore i heard was that they were used by ranchers to mark cattle...

      ok guess you are partially correct, i found this from the wikipedia article on paintball the guys that "invented" the sport originally used the "Nel-spot 007" pistol "normally used by farmers and ranchers for marking trees and livestock"

    115. Re:Well that's stupid. by sunking2 · · Score: 1

      Some would say it's idiotic to release a game that uses a current conflict in which you can kill the soldiers of your largest market and expect it not to have some backlash and economic consequences.

    116. Re:Well that's stupid. by ieatcookies · · Score: 1

      You don't think tv shows are edited for censorship and content before being releaased to the public? You're right, this is no different.

    117. Re:Well that's stupid. by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      They are going to call them the Balitan instead.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    118. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed.

      And those same people always have money to spend on wars, private contractors, bribering, saving banks and their scammers/criminals, but there's never money for improving education or having a free national health care system for all, and better and more efficient infrastructures, nooo that wouldn't make sense would it? Having a decent life is not part of freedom, war and blind nationalism still spewing how "we'r #1" and "god bless you and America(only the united states that is, the other countries from the north and south America continent aren't part of that... and neither is god!)" and how it is the greatest country in the world (who can't spend money on healthcare but for war and banking crooks? Here's your blank check.
      Oh how about covering up a homicide of a public figure within active service on the front lines? Is that how the country "protects" its serving man and woman in the army? By covering up the act of a murder, beating and threathning them? because their view is different, and actually sound and moral with un-ambiguous and bias principles? It sounds dangerously close not to the actions of what a democratic republic should be, but a fascist regime.

      And there's a plenthora of other examples out there being ignored and not debated by the main public(including the media obviously)

      How's that for "Well that's stupid"?

    119. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "So would you support my right to create a game called "Hate Crime! - the game where hate crimes come to life!" In which you, as an up-and-coming member of a white supremacist group, get to kill Matthew Shepard, drag James Byrd, Jr. behind your truck, firebomb an Atlanta church, and rape a few minority women in the inner city?"

      Yes, I would. It's merely a game and nothing more. Do you lack the ability to differentiate between reality and a video game? Or do you lack the ability to think for yourself and merely not buy things that you don't like, instead of trying to get something that doesn't even affect you banned (censored, self-censored, whatever) for everyone?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    120. Re:Well that's stupid. by hierophanta · · Score: 1

      My grandfather died in WW2, could you please remove the Germans from all your future WW2 games as well? The Japanese, too.

      to take the other point of view..

      what if they replaced Taliban with Germans/Japanese / North Koreans ? i wonder how well that would go over. yes i know it has been done in the past, but to outright swap the two would be a huge slap to the people of these other origins. oh wait, that was the point... carry on

    121. Re:Well that's stupid. by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I find that many of the family members of US military personnel make claims for exceptional treatment that they never extend to anyone else.

      I find that this is pretty much endemic to the human condition.

      You can subsitute in pretty much anything you like for 'family members of US military personnel' and find people trying to exploit it. Black, Female, Mexican, European, firefighter, cop, low income, high income, whatever...

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    122. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandfather died in a concentration camp too. He was a Jew :(

    123. Re:Well that's stupid. by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      You pedantry is born of obtusery (obviously he was talking about the US military alone), and you have consequently contributed nothing.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    124. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, and, I never said that no one had the right to express their opinion. I said that something shouldn't be censored because someone doesn't like something (yes, I know EA did it because they felt it would make them more money).

    125. Re:Well that's stupid. by Slashdots+Boss · · Score: 1

      I like you

    126. Re:Well that's stupid. by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Dude, I know and agree, thats why I used the word marker....it just worked so much better for the joke. Seriously dude, humor 101. Gotta get the details right if you want your "Score: 5 funny".

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    127. Re:Well that's stupid. by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      The problem presents itself when the very groups claiming to be solely interested in "protecting" our rights (constitutional conservatives) go on ad nauseam about how "political correctness" is weakening America and how racial profiling is OK as long as it works and how the Bible, by way of sharing with the Constitution the use of the word God, has imbued a national priority of marginalizing gays. And, most recently, how portraying (in an accurate way) a current world event is intolerably insensitive. The hypocrisy of this is off the charts.

      All the other video games that were offensive to minorities went unremarked (most notably the entire GTA III series with the exception of their attempt at showing pixellated sex, which is apparently unforgivable.)

      I am not out to stand up for any one minority except, perhaps, the minority that demands a lack of hypocrisy in the national conversation. There are too few of us around.

    128. Re:Well that's stupid. by puto · · Score: 1

      The war on drugs is still going on. I am half Colombian and I want every reference to Colombia removed from Scar Face, Mami Vice, the Wire, and any type of media that talks a bout Cocaine. I want them to be replaced by Juan Valdez and his trusty mule, Conchita. Or Sofia Vergara topless.

      --
      The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
    129. Re:Well that's stupid. by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Knowing G.I.s, they'd likely take turns playing Taliban while on actual deployment, since a shitload of G.I.s are avid gamers

      I'd love to have a better idea of the point of vue of the people shooting at me, if I had that rather pressing problem. I'd help me think of ways to avoid getting shot.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    130. Re:Well that's stupid. by Geeky · · Score: 1

      Booze and whores ARE fun when you are deployed to some foreign shithole.

      And when you're not.

      --
      Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
    131. Re:Well that's stupid. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      offending people who want blood and guts is not the same thing as offending people who have been traumatized by blood and guts. The simple fact is that they chose not to offend the families of/and the soldiers who lost loved ones or ended up getting maimed/wounded or even emotionally scared in combat. You see, the one set will not likely get off the couch to answer the door except when it's the Pizza delivery guy. The other will protest congress, their local shopping mall carrying the game, and about anyone else they can think of that might have an effect to stop it or actually sue them claiming they are profiting from someone's life and they deserve a cut of the revenue or something.. They also have the sympathy card in which allows them to pull bystanders in who are moved by their story as well.

    132. Re:Well that's stupid. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's funny how stupid people are. It's still the Taliban, you're still only earning half XP after a few hours of play - they're just calling it something else so you'll stop bitching.

      That's the thing, the models in the game with their movements and voice acting etc are no more "Taliban" than the other side is actually the US Army. They are just little models, with some texturing applied, with a voice track selected, controlled by AI (or not). There's no reason to get angry about whatever they decide to name each side.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    133. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one expected it to not have some backlash from idiots, but to have economic consequences? These people wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Remember that most of them say that they don't want to be reminded of the loss of their loved ones. As such, any game which even so much is based on this war will remind them in that case, not just if they're knowingly playing as them. However, the only reason it would have economic consequences is because idiots somehow managed to get it banned in video game stores that are on military bases. Just because they don't like something, that doesn't mean it should be censored.

    134. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't think tv shows are edited for censorship and content before being releaased to the public?

      Where did I say anything of the sort? Do you normally attempt to put words in people's mouths as an argument tactic? The point of my statement was that instead of trying to get things censored that *gasp* you just ignore it and don't watch or buy the piece of entertainment that you disagree with. I know, it's a really radical idea.

    135. Re:Well that's stupid. by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      Oh, I got it, the anger was not at you, but at the people who actually use that word while shooting paintballs and rudely correcting ANYONE who dares call it a gun. You made great satire off of it. Like I said, the "marker" thing is a raw nerve with me. Obviously. :)

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    136. Re:Well that's stupid. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the new sig, that's a good one.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    137. Re:Well that's stupid. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Do these same people call lasertag guns "illumination devices"?

      The preferred nomenclature is "pointers".

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    138. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandfather also died in WW2, could you remove the western allies som future WW2 games as well?

    139. Re:Well that's stupid. by sockman · · Score: 1

      I don't think a 12 year old in his parents basement playing the Taliban against an actual U.S. military member really provides the "point of vue[sic]" you are looking for.

      Reading the Koran, understanding fundamentalism (in the case of the hard-core Taliban), understanding the general culture of Afghanistan and understanding the U.S. role in creating Afghanistan's current political climate may go further than playing a video game.

      As a former U.S. military member (I was only deployed to Iraq, though) I'm definitely disappointed in this decision.

    140. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is one of the reasons why I didn't buy World at War. I noticed in the beta for the 360 you had no choice of whether or not you can play as a Nazi or an Allied troop. I seriously have a thing against Nazi's and considered it bad design that you were forced to play as one of them, so I voted with my wallet and did not buy the game.

    141. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when you have a loved one in the field, coming under fire almost every day, you will have earned the right to make this comment.

      Until then, STFU.

      Yeah, Discopete really nailed it. "in the field", "under fire almost every day". No dice if you have a loved one who's on active duty, but not currently in the field, or in the field and coming under fire "once in a while". Or if you have a loved one, say, in the Naval Academy. And forget it if you are on active duty but not in the field, coming under fire almost every day.

      Thanks, Discopete, we await your further orders! It's really convenient to be free of that tiresome 1st Amendment thing. Can you give us the requirement for commenting on gay marriage, or Federal Reserve policy?

    142. Re:Well that's stupid. by hosecoat · · Score: 1

      but now I can't kill the taliban.

    143. Re:Well that's stupid. by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      He shouldn't have pissed off the IT department by making those support calls...

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    144. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      So the Half-Life expansion "Opposing Force" was really all about a training mission? And computer games in general are actually real and not virtual as long as they use real names? Interesting!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    145. Re:Well that's stupid. by oddfox · · Score: 1

      World of Warcraft was never like that. If you spend any time, logged out or logged in, inside a major city or an inn at a minor city/outpost then you become "rested". While you are rested you gain a bonus to your XP gains, This mechanism has never been modified and has been in place since launch, and I do not remember ever hearing anyone raising a stink over getting to log out for the night in town and come back in the morning with half a level or more rested so that your leveling is in fact highly accelerated.

      --
      "We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
    146. Re:Well that's stupid. by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      The government certainly was engaged in censoring what soldiers could buy, and could indeed prohibit the game entirely for them, like it prohibits porn. While there was no national ban, patriotic political correctness has a tendency to spread into self-censorship, which is actually more powerful than simple government prohibition since people feel the need to actively show they are "right-thinking". For once there doesn't seem to be much of a slippery slope, but the DoD really doesn't need to be expressing its opinions on what it finds offensive.

    147. Re:Well that's stupid. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's a bunch of whiners who are trying to stop game manufacturers from profiting from the hardships they are still struggling to overcome. It happening to censor others is merely a distraction and EA went this route in order to avoid liability from all the lawsuits claiming that the characters were based on real life instances of "their fallen loved one" or "themselves (wounded maimed or whatever) or "pain and suffering caused by the game" whatever which seems to pop open quite often when powerful American lobbying groups don't get their way.

    148. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Im a veteran, since I missed out on the whores and booze, you think I could get one of those whores.. preferably redhead.

    149. Re:Well that's stupid. by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Yes, because when it comes to foreign policy, we should always ask ourselves, "What would a 5 year old do?"

    150. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, put simply:

      "The freedom to say anything doesn't necessarily imply that everything need be said."

    151. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 1

      All the other video games that were offensive to minorities went unremarked (most notably the entire GTA III series with the exception of their attempt at showing pixellated sex, which is apparently unforgivable.)

      Really? I seem to recall those receiving quite a bit of negative publicity when they were released, as well. And that also conveniently overlooks the fact that you weren't playing a game named "Gambino Crime Family: Kill the NYPD!"

    152. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It refers to gamers who won't step away from the computer for anything—ANYTHING.
      Simply ask yourself where such a depraved individual might poop. Well, he has two socks and the bathroom is a long, long way from the keyboard...

    153. Re:Well that's stupid. by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      You know what will get those soldiers out of harm's way? QUITTING THE WAR!

      Seriously

      You break it, you bought it.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    154. Re:Well that's stupid. by oddfox · · Score: 1

      As a small addendum I forgot to mention: In the beta the XP gains worked differently. Beta was a long time ago and gamers don't generally consider discussions of Beta stages to be relevant to the game at-and-post-launch. TBH your description is similar to how things worked in Beta, but it's not like there was widespread outrage because WoW didn't exactly have a huge public beta test (Or any public beta test that I can remember).

      See this for more details on the situation how it was in Beta, and then scroll up to see how it's been ever since..

      --
      "We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
    155. Re:Well that's stupid. by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      A major part of the controversy here is that the war is still happening; there are still soldiers in harm's way or dying.

      In that case, they should keep the Taliban and replace the Americans with 1980's Russians.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    156. Re:Well that's stupid. by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      I'd love to have a better idea of the point of vue of the people shooting at me, if I had that rather pressing problem. I'd help me think of ways to avoid getting shot.

      I don't think a 12 year old in his parents basement playing the Taliban against an actual U.S. military member really provides the "point of vue[sic]" you are looking for.

      You don't think your strawman is pretty enough? Awwwww, poor grammar nazi, you haz a sad.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    157. Re:Well that's stupid. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that in a free society, freedom is haw you say and not how it is? I mean seriously, when did the people complaining about the game lose the ability or freedom to complain? When did EA lose the ability or freedom to pull the game and change things in it?

      Don't confuse controversy (most likely by design for publicity) and the caving into it as any losses of freedom. In fact, it's a proper exercise of freedom even though you do not like it. That's right, even though you lost a choice, the freedom of the people in control was used to execute the decisions they made through the influence of free speech. You are not going to say you hate freedom now are you?

    158. Re:Well that's stupid. by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      most G.I.s would see the censorship reflecting complete pussification.

      As AD military, let me say it: PUSSSIEEESSSSS!!!

      I'll not secondarily that they weren't banning the games from AAFES locations to protect the military members, but presumably for the dependents.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    159. Re:Well that's stupid. by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      World of Warcraft was like that.. in Beta.

    160. Re:Well that's stupid. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm reminds of a saying a friend used to quote. I don't know the original author but it went something like, this is a free country, you are as free as you want to be, as long as you do what I say.

      It's like you are saying that everyone else' freedom is worthless unless your version trumps it. You don't have to like what others do with their freedom, you just have to accept the premise that it won't always line up with your idea of freedom. This means you will win some and lose some, but that's what happens when people are free to act on their own.

    161. Re:Well that's stupid. by KingMotley · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Please read the patch notes, directly from blizzard:
      http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/patch-4-13-04.shtml

    162. Re:Well that's stupid. by oddfox · · Score: 1

      I already posted a follow-up response to my own comment that stated that XP did work like this in Beta, and how it's not really honest to present it like the game was ever functioning like that once it was released to the public.

      --
      "We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
    163. Re:Well that's stupid. by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      Google would help. It's pooping into a sock so you don't have to take a break from gaming.

      I hope it's meant to be metaphorical.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    164. Re:Well that's stupid. by orient · · Score: 1

      Both my grandfathers fought the Russians and the Germans. Also, they might have shot a few shells on American planes, too. Could you please remove these, too?

      --
      Laudele lor desigur m-ar mahni peste masura.
    165. Re:Well that's stupid. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The only way to "take soldiers out of harm's way" is to win a war.

      To win a war, you must have clear and achievable objectives defining "victory". So far all we see is some vague hand-waving about "if we don't stay there Taliban will take over". So, how do you actually win that war so that everyone can go home? Nuke Afghanistan from orbit?

    166. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Feels like irony to me.

      Those who are directly involved in the real aspect of combat surrounding the environment that this game portrays (US soldiers), and having your Government strip the enemy they actually face in real life(the Taliban), out of a video game, out of concern for offending those in combat.

      So fantasy killing, from the position of the real life enemy's side, is forbidden, yet killing the enemy in real life is OK.

      We are a warped and psychotic species.

    167. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 1

      I notice you avoided the tougher & more pointed question in my post:

      Would you tell the people protesting publication of that game ("Hate Crime!") to shut up because they're whining pussies who can't tell reality from a game?

      The point is not that the existence of the game will encourage people to go become skinhead white supremacists. The point is that the existence of the game will deeply offend groups of people, who will vocally criticize my game.

      So, will you go to bat for me, and go on record telling all of those minorities offended by my game to not buy it, and just shut the fuck up and stop trying to censor me?

    168. Re:Well that's stupid. by digitrev · · Score: 1

      Poopsocking: when a game is so addictive / good or the game punishes you for putting it down to the point that you'd rather poop in a sock.

      Anti-poopsocking: Rewarding the player for putting the game down / punishing the player for not putting the game down.

      --
      Cynical Idealist
    169. Re:Well that's stupid. by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      there has been no government interference here

      And you know this, how?

    170. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      So.. they shouldn't be free to make those baseless complaints? And this really doesn't fit the scenario you outline. Do you really think for example Counter-Strike wouldn't have been such a popular game if the SAS models were instead called "British Counter-Terrorists" or something? How would you like it if someone made a game about a murderer that went on a killing spree and happened to kill your family? Do you think you wouldn't complain at all?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    171. Re:Well that's stupid. by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      This? This isn't a fully-loaded semi-automatic assault rifle.

      It's a bullet marker.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    172. Re:Well that's stupid. by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      there are still soldiers in harm's way or dying

      Falling. Nobody's dying, they're just... falling.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    173. Re:Well that's stupid. by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Large chunks of my family died in WW2. Could you please remove the Americans from all your future WW2 games as well?

      Oh wait, I forgot which side of the pacific I was on. Please continue to nuke my family.

    174. Re:Well that's stupid. by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      Do you realise that the link you yourself just posted explicitly and unambiguously confirms the very point that you're trying to refute?

      No... no, you probably don't, do you.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    175. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are a US citizen that's a strange remark since they always boast about the "right to free speech".

      I think lots of WWII veterans would think you all are a bunch of wimps. They won't go crying to their mummy just because some war game allows you to play "The Bad Guys".

      In actual military exercises they do play the "bad guys". In a notorious incident there was a US General who did too good a job playing the Bad Guys (and beat the "USA" team) so they forced the "Bad Guys" to follow a more "conventional script" and then declared the exercise a success without apparently learning much from the loss... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

      No surprise the US military are losing the war in Afghanistan. The US military also has too many unprofessional soldiers who shoot at "random brown civilians" for the wrong reasons. That's one of the reasons they have been losing support village by village, town by town. Yes the Taliban has it easier: when in doubt, just shoot the guy in the US uniform, or the white/black guy. But if you can't handle these sort of rules, you shouldn't be fighting these sort of wars.

      I have real respect for the professional soldiers. But the rest? I respect them like I respect a bomb. They are a danger to both allies and foes. They have their uses but you have to be careful where you send them.

      I'm no soldier and don't ever want to be one. Sure I'm a coward. You can sneer at me and call me other names, but I'm not the one shooting at civilians because I'm scared or pissed off or "just had enough of this crap" or "for fun" or just plain incompetent.

      At least I have the sense to know I'm not suitable rather than be one of those helping to _lose_ wars.

    176. Re:Well that's stupid. by IICV · · Score: 1

      What part of "early on in WOW's development" did you not understand? I was clearly not talking about the released game, otherwise I wouldn't have used the word "development", which (in this context) means "before the game was released". I was not making a dig at WoW in particular, I was talking about how people can be appeased just by playing tricks with wording.

    177. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandfather also died in WW2, he saw a guard fall on another guard and laughed so hard he accidentally shot himself

    178. Re:Well that's stupid. by blair1q · · Score: 1

      If the families of fallen and standing soldiers are having undue stress, they shouldn't be wasting their time trying to get a fucking game changed, they should be spending it trying to get the fucking war changed.

    179. Re:Well that's stupid. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      What do you expect? They're frigging Nazis.

      --
    180. Re:Well that's stupid. by nacturation · · Score: 1

      As an anti-poopsocking measure

      I feel this term needs some clarification... and no, I won't google that.

      Replace "mom" with a sock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfAttFN8kjM

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    181. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WW2 has long since ended.

      Long since? Germany was reunited 20 years ago. Until then, West Berlin was still controlled by the allies. It was only the "two plus four agreement", signed in 1990, that actually brought WW2 (in Europe, anyway) to a formal end and made Germany a mostly sovereign nation again.

      What's more, despite all that, we still have military bases in Germany. Even nuclear bombs are still stored there - ever wonder why? Yeah, it's to keep Russia at bay, but it's also to remind Germany that we'll blow them to smithereens if they fuck up again. (Germany, one might add, does not have any nuclear weapons and is not allowed to develop any.)

      Fighting may have long since ended, but the war has lingered on until quite recently, and the last traces of it still haven'd faded.

    182. Re:Well that's stupid. by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 1

      That's debatable. Oil prices would obviously rise, but the government has already spent so much on the war that it could probably subsidise the importation, if needed, from Venezuela and even manage to save a few bucks in comparison, so that the populace would not have to bear the sudden cost increase of gas. So yes, the soldiers are defending a lifestyle. But whose?

    183. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying that is not trying to force them into taking out the name is like saying that being held up at knife point isn't forcing someone to do something they don't want.

      No. You fail at logic.

      Holding someone at knife-point is by definition an act of force.
      Telling someone that you refuse to buy/sell their product until they make some changes is an act of persuasion.

      There is a BIIIIIIG difference.

      You know, the same sort of difference between being a rapist and a gigolo.
      If you don't understand the difference, that makes you the rapist.

    184. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think the troops are over there and not here? So they can't fight for our freedom.

    185. Re:Well that's stupid. by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 1

      You can't exactly "win" a war without it ending. And for it to end you have to achieve surrendering negotiate a cease-fire or obliterate every single enemy. We all know number three isn't happening, especially since the U.S. if facing an ideology. Worse still: an ideology of hatred. The more they put pressure, the worse the rebound will be. 09/11 was all about retaliation against U.S. meddling in foreign affairs. Do they really think going there, guns blazing, is going to prevent another insurrection? Yes, genius thinking. So, if #3 is out, #1 is probably not happening because the Tal... I mean "opposing force" has very strong reasons to be pissed and #2 is out of the question because the U.S. has very strong reasons to be pissed...

    186. Re:Well that's stupid. by zeroshade · · Score: 1

      How would you like it if someone made a game about a murderer that went on a killing spree and happened to kill your family? Do you think you wouldn't complain at all?

      I would express that I would not buy the game due to the memories it would bring up. That's about it. Why? Would you try to get the game banned and interfere with other people's ability to enjoy a game?

    187. Re:Well that's stupid. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "Would you tell the people protesting publication of that game ("Hate Crime!") to shut up because they're whining pussies who can't tell reality from a game?"

      No, I'm not telling them to shut up now. I'm telling them that their concerns are silly because they don't even have to buy the game (my criticism of their criticism) and that they shouldn't expect it to be censored just because they don't like it.

      "and just shut the fuck up and stop trying to censor me?"

      It's freedom of speech, isn't it? They can criticize all they want, but they should not expect it to be censored by any means simply because they find it offensive.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    188. Re:Well that's stupid. by Draek · · Score: 1

      Well, depending on your particular country of origin you may still can.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    189. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somehow, I don't think people in the Middle East have a loud voice in US media.

    190. Re:Well that's stupid. by oddfox · · Score: 1

      That's funny because I remember posting that what he was describing was how things were at one point in the Beta.

      --
      "We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
    191. Re:Well that's stupid. by Draek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How does your hypothetical children "finish the job"? either he leaves the other bully alive so he can take revenge another day, or he kills another children over some freaking sand.

      Wars are fought over clear objectives, because when they aren't, the only path to victory is wholesale genocide. Think about that for a minute.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    192. Re:Well that's stupid. by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      In that case, forget ever doing a video game about Iraq or Afghanistan. Those wars are never really going to end.

      Guess it's back to Tom Clancy games and their "Russian separatist movement" non-controversial fictional bad guys.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    193. Re:Well that's stupid. by oddfox · · Score: 1

      WoW and most MMOs are under constant development, and while early development could be interpreted as "during alpha/beta" it could also be interpreted to mean "early on in the game's lifetime".

      It wasn't even really a trick of wording though, because the patch notes linked by KingMotley explains the change in more depth. The change was drastically for the better, as the patch notes explained it allows for more freedom in exploring aspects of gameplay aside from level grinding. Before, you had a set amount of time before your XP was diminished significantly. After the modification, the only thing that was really impacted by being rested was level grinding. This change gave users the freedom to not have to worry about spending the first few hours grinding, and they could play at their own pace.

      So your point really doesn't stand because much more of the gameplay was changed than "oh the rested mechanism works slightly different but pretty much the same" because it's an oversimplifcation. If you don't see the very real and very drastic differences between how it worked and how it's been tweaked to work, you aren't trying very hard or you haven't played the game for a significant amount of time.

      --
      "We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
    194. Re:Well that's stupid. by Draek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everyone is part of some minority or another. People who went to the same school you did are a tiny minority in the sea of the US educational system, people who like the same flavor of ice cream are a minority among the greater universe of ice-cream lovers, and so on. Your ideology ultimately boils down to "do not offend anyone, ever". The problem being, of course, when your own attempts at being politically correct ends up offending others, as this thread shows.

      The reason society has determined 'hate speech' to be wrong isn't because they're a minority, but rather because we've deemed it wrong to offend others on those grounds. Saying "death to all heterosexuals!" is still wrong in spite of being the majority, but you're still free to say I'm a moron for liking strawberry ice-cream over chocolate, and I'm still free to say you're a moron for trampling over Freedom of Speech just because some guys signed up to go kill some Iraquis and ended up getting shot themselves instead.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    195. Re:Well that's stupid. by Chr0me · · Score: 1

      Not the point at all. If you consider MoH and Half-Life to be in the same genre, I can see where the problem is, because other than FPS they are not. Sci-fi games can make up their own vocabulary and reuse military jargon as they see fit. Why should I buy a game who's terminology indicates that the multiplayer component is only a training exercise generally played out with MILES gear or paintballs? I may as well get Police Trainer.
      A game designed, advertised, and sold as either an historical or modern reality based combat FPS really shouldn't try to redefine a term already in use by the military depicted. Or did the "F" in FNG for Call of Duty 4's first mission change to "Frakking" between when I first enlisted (and was the fucking new guy) and now?

    196. Re:Well that's stupid. by dave420 · · Score: 1

      They should stop showing news from Afghanistan, too, then. Genius logic, Sparky.

    197. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "So.. they shouldn't be free to make those baseless complaints?"

      How hard is it to understand that I'm not against them making the complaints, but I'm against the game being censored simply because they made the complaints (even though I think their complaints are stupid, but that doesn't mean they can't make them).

      "How would you like it if someone made a game about a murderer that went on a killing spree and happened to kill your family?"

      Well, if I was the type to get offended, yet I will still sort of intelligent, I'd probably say "I'm not going to buy this game, but I'm also not going to try to get it banned/censored for everyone."

    198. Re:Well that's stupid. by dave420 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They do when they blow something up. Oh, wait, is that why there's terrorism?

    199. Re:Well that's stupid. by anUnhandledException · · Score: 1

      Exactly HOW DARE EA censor themselves.

      I mean there should be a law against that or something.

      We need to government to pass a law that prohibits any company from self-censorship. Now THAT would be some freedom.

    200. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: They should be called the 'Good Guys' and the 'Bad Guys"

    201. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Wow. At any point in my post, did I even mention what I actually feel on this topic? No. However, you wasted no time in assuming that I agree with EA's decision. I simply stated why this topic is controversial, and the reasons EA and AAFES chose to do what they did in response.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    202. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 1

      Right, but we've already agreed that this is not a problem of censorship.

      EA made this change voluntarily out of respect to the objections of some families of service members for whom the whole "Be Taliban and kill the infidel Americans!" was a little too raw a topic for them. EA gets some nice press as being sensitive to the concerns of military families, you get your game with a single text substitution changing the string "Taliban" to "Opposition Forces" - gameplay is completely unaffected, and the game is still available for you (and will *probably* even be available on military bases after this change is made, increasing its availability).

      You agree that it's fine for people to have opinions and voice them; You agree that it's fine for EA to voluntarily choose to make a minor alteration to a string in their game files which will make some people - at least some of whom certainly buy or have bought EA games, if not this one - happier.

      I don't think there's ever been any dispute that EA had the *right* to publish the game with the Taliban name intact, so it's not a free speech issue. Nor is anybody advocating government intervention to prevent EA from publishing the game, so it's not a case of "censorship by any means".

      So... what exactly is your problem, then?

    203. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      That would actually be kind of amusing...

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    204. Re:Well that's stupid. by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      yah, I would mercilessly ridicule those people. You may have enjoyed my recent facebook comment at someone who was bitching about the use of the word "retarded", I was happy to agree with her, people who use the word retarded are being very mentally challenged. :)

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    205. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Then start letting the movie and television industries know.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    206. Re:Well that's stupid. by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      most G.I.s would see the censorship reflecting complete pussification"

      Keyword is "complete". GIs have PTSS right and left, have you ever heard of any Mujahid having PTSS?

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    207. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, that game sounds kinda fun...

    208. Re:Well that's stupid. by TommydCat · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You seem to *gasp* at straws a lot...

      --
      This comment does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the author.
    209. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 1

      The problem being, of course, when your own attempts at being politically correct ends up offending others, as this thread shows.

      I'd suggest that if you're *actually* offended by EA voluntarily changing a string in the data files for their game, perhaps you are the one who is too easily offended. NOTHING about your game has changed, except for the fact that the word "Taliban" has been changed to a less 'charged' euphemism. Unless you'd care to argue that "Opposition Forces" isn't also a suitable description for the Taliban?

      ultimately boils down to "do not offend anyone, ever."

      No, it boils down to "Don't go out of your way to be pointlessly offensive when a simple, and trivial, change will avoid giving that offense." Which doesn't say (or even imply) that being offensive is never acceptable or legitimate.

      And I'd respectfully submit that if more people lived by the principle of avoiding unnecessarily offending other people when it is easily and trivially avoided... the world would be a hell of a lot nicer place.

      For instance, I could say "All the people bitching about EA changing their game voluntarily are just a bunch of fucking douchebags with a sense of entitlement bigger than CENTCOM's org chart!" But I haven't done that, because I'd much rather attempt to discuss the point rationally, and because I see no call for being unnecessarily insulting and offensive.

      Should I claim that people disagreeing with me are censoring my free speech because I've chosen to moderate what I say of my own free will?

    210. Re:Well that's stupid. by ezwip · · Score: 0

      They are just complaining to complain. C&C Generals had terrorists as the opponent back in 2004 and I don't remember anyone complaining. I had games on floppy disk where I was attacking middle eastern targets with stealth fighters.

      --
      "I guess I'm gonna fade into Bolivian."
    211. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Something to consider though, is that has there ever really been a time when free speech was not met with ostracism? I think now people just have easier methods to voice their opinions.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    212. Re:Well that's stupid. by BruceCage · · Score: 1

      I have to admit that entertainment like this can lead to desensitization of an event that is current and problematic

      I'm much more troubled by how much the general population (which mostly consists out of non-gamers) couldn't give a shit less about anything that is happening in Afghanistan. If you want to complain about something desensitizing folks look no further than the constant barrage of reality television shows.

      --
      Perfect is the enemy of done.
    213. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >If you are a US citizen that's a strange remark since they always boast about the "right to free speech".

      The government hasn't suppressed anything here, so it doesn't rise to the level of "Constitutional Rights."

      Has anyone in government even given an official opinion about it?

    214. Re:Well that's stupid. by BruceCage · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's a bunch of whiners who are trying to stop game manufacturers from profiting from the hardships they are still struggling to overcome.

      I can think of much more despicable examples of war profiteering that most certainly don't involve game publishers...

      --
      Perfect is the enemy of done.
    215. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but we've already agreed that this is not a problem of censorship."

      Not forced censorship, but they still removed the feature because a few people who didn't even have to play it whined about it. EA does have the right to do this, of course, but it is still completely stupid from where I'm sitting.

      " you get your game with a single text substitution changing the string "Taliban" to "Opposition Forces" - gameplay is completely unaffected"

      If it is such a little change, then why were people angry about the text in the first place? If they can get angry about the text, then I can get angry about the removal of it (and about EA listening to these idiots).

      "So... what exactly is your problem, then?"

      The fact that people are whining about something that doesn't affect them (they don't have to buy it) and that EA removed the content because of these people (they made EA feel that they would make more money without it).

    216. Re:Well that's stupid. by gregrah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then they can choose to avoid the game.

      Or they also have the right to protest - which is what they did. If EA really wanted to press the issue, I am sure that there is very little that anyone could have done to legally require them to alter or halt production of the game.

      In EA's own words: the voice of friends and families of fallen soldiers "is a very important voice to the Medal of Honor team". Maybe this is true, and the developers had a change of heart - something which is perfectly within their right to do. Perhaps more likely is that they were worried about the negative publicity and decided that this token gesture might lead to more games being sold - another decision that EA has the right to make.

      My point is this: having the right to say or do something does not make it a good idea to do it. Even if you feel that you are correct and the opposition is overreacting - sometimes it's in your own best interest to avoid upsetting other people.

      I can understand why some people would be upset about this game. I can understand why EA would make the decision that they did. The only thing I can't understand is why you would be upset at the sight of two opposing parties expressing their freedom of speech, and making concessions to the other party where appropriate.

    217. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one cares how XP works in WoW. No one. Please go away. And MY GOD WASH THAT SOCK.

    218. Re:Well that's stupid. by rugatero · · Score: 1

      The government hasn't suppressed anything here, so it doesn't rise to the level of "Constitutional Rights."

      Who mentioned the Constitution? The right to free speech exists independently of the Constitution.

      --
      This comment is for entertainment purposes only. Any similarity to real insight or information is purely coincidental.
    219. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what is better, spending away all this money, which would be a lot less if we dismantled the whole military-industrial welfare program and had each of the armed forces do all their own logistics, r&d, and production(there is really no need to profit off of this at all), not to mention all the money wasted just to keep bases up and running all over the world (no one wants to make the logical changes here, but yeah, let's complain about foodstampers instead), or losing a little face?


      also, the enemy on your doorstep is complete bullshit. if they(the miniscule percent of islam that does this sort of thing) really wanted to hurt us, they could, with much more success, have random, one-off terrorist strikes happening daily in all major cities. simple car bombings or shootings or any other sort of violent acts, but that isn't happening in proportion to the perceived threat. no where near it. stop with the scare-mongering, please.

    220. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, it's most likely the same people clamoring about "Take our country back!" and "The Obama administration is Tyranny!" Tyranny is telling a business that they can't sell a product because a certain group of people might get mad about it. If EA hadn't bowed down, they probably would've tried to have it BANNED!

    221. Re:Well that's stupid. by dkf · · Score: 1

      You pedantry is born of obtusery (obviously he was talking about the US military alone), and you have consequently contributed nothing.

      But in this respect, the US military is exactly like every other fighting force in the world is and has been for as far back as records go. The only exceptions have been where other drugs or same-sex relations were preferred instead, but that's not enormously variant in the grand scheme of things. Armies are always full of troublesome young men.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    222. Re:Well that's stupid. by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      Yeah, can you please just go back to quietly drinking yourselves to death away from the cameras?

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    223. Re:Well that's stupid. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The reality in this case was it had nothing to do with protecting peoples feelings it was all a Fox not-News anti-Muslim beat up in the run up to the elections. Nobody cared only the Fox talking heads carried on about it and now Ea has caved into Fox most likely in a behind the scenes right wing political and marketing deal.

      Fox is really starting to lose it's propaganda battle against the internet, as each of it's bullshit stories are pulled apart and dismembered on the internet and kept in the public eye. Fox's audience is more and more being limited to an ignorant radical right wing element, which makes you wonder why EA even bothered, the Fox not-News audience definitely not game players, they are grumpy old white folk who spend all day mindless staring at cable TV.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    224. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That;s what I want. And the teams have to wear the same color because we don't want to offend blue or red.

    225. Re:Well that's stupid. by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      My grandfathers fought on opposing sides, so could you maybe remove the Axis and Allies from future WW2 games? Playing as Switzerland ought to be enough.

    226. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well - to understand that you have to understand EA's Mission Statement:

      "We intend to zerg spam the sports game market by reproducing the same shitty sports games every year. We will be a competitive force within all other major gaming genres, and whenever presented with the opprotunity to pussy out, we will choose to pussy out - even when it makes no sense to do so."

    227. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      How hard is it to understand that I'm not against them making the complaints, but I'm against the game being censored simply because they made the complaints (even though I think their complaints are stupid, but that doesn't mean they can't make them).

      It's not hard to understand at all, it's a very childlike and selfish way to look at things. You're okay for people to talk about freedom, but as soon as it's exercised in a way that you don't like, you're apoplectic. These are not "baseless" complaints, nor will this change ruin the game for anyone. It will however get the media and crazy people to STFU and hopefully have everyone quit whining, so I think it was a prudent decision.

      Intelligence has a very hard time coming into play for such deeply emotional subjects. Not saying it's impossible, but we are all human after all.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    228. Re:Well that's stupid. by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      The first world war did not originate as a war of conquest, and did not feature a central villain like Hitler or the Nazi party. Most of the major powers didn't even start the war; the Austro-Hungarian empire (which ceased to exist) invaded Serbia after a Yugoslav national assassinated the heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary. Everybody else was pulled into the war by a cascading series of alliances and treaties. So, unlike the second world war, there is no clear cut "good guy" and "bad guy" in the first world war.

      Heck, the US missed most of the first world war, and Britain was even initially worried that the US would join the central powers rather than the allies! Anyhow, I'm rambling a bit, but my point, if I even have one, is that the first world war isn't nearly as good an analogue as the second world war.

    229. Re:Well that's stupid. by izomiac · · Score: 1

      I've come to notice* that there is a large segment of the population that simply can't ignore what people say or do, and are unskilled at thinking abstractly. They hear/see something and treat it as though it were said to them, about them.

      There are even quite a few that visit Slashdot. Try speaking in general and wait for someone to respond to you, personally, describing their specific situation.


      * Yeah, yeah, I'm unobservant. It took me a while to notice that as well.

    230. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      Right at the top of the article you linked to:

      The term opposing force is occasionally used to refer to a genuine military foe. This article is concerned only with its use in simulated conflict.

      Even laying aside the fact that computer games are always by definition "simulated conflict", I think you're taking this matter a little too seriously.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    231. Re:Well that's stupid. by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Otherwise I will be waiting for the video game of canoeing and collecting beaver pelts etc... which I don't think will be a very good game. That or a historical RTS game of the war of 1812, where inexplicably the USA always seems to win...

      In as much as the US was the belligerent in the war of 1812 and the Treaty of Ghent resulted in no concessions to either side, I would argue that the US lost the war of 1812 in that the US did not achieve their goal via the war (the issue of impressment just became moot during the war) and did not really succeed in doing much of anything in the end.

    232. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      Good point! :)

      --
      which is totally what she said
    233. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 1

      Maybe because you think it's wrong to glorify such a sickening part of reality? That people shouldn't be making light of such a subject? If you had someone so close to you murdered, you are not going to be sitting there thinking "oh well, as long as the murderer had fun, I shouldn't be concerned about this". You are very likely going to hate anyone else who validates his actions by buying the game and copying him.

      I admit that even if I had someone I know die in Afghanistan I probably wouldn't complain about this game, but I really don't have a hard time understanding the people who do, and the quicker all of this crap dies down, the better. They don't need to be arguing with people who are trying to tell them that it's okay to pretend to be the people who killed their father/brother/son because "it's just a game". They probably regard this game on the same level as they would with one called "Paedophile Olympics" or "Real Rape Sim 3: I love it when they scream!" or something.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    234. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should probably go back and relabel major historical battles as well.

      Genji vs. Heiji could be Asian Force A vs. Asian Force B.

      Or relabel historical figures Hero A, or King B or the like.

      Imagine Othello:

      TRAGIC HERO A:
      I do believe it, and I ask your pardon.
      Will you, I pray, demand that demi-devil
      Why he hath thus ensnared my soul and body?

      MISUNDERSTOOD VILLAIN I:
      Demand me nothing: what you know, you know:
      From this time forth I never will speak word.

      BACKGROUND DUDE B:
      MMmmmmmm, these muffins are double plus good!

    235. Re:Well that's stupid. by gregrah · · Score: 1

      Try speaking in general and wait for someone to respond to you, personally, describing their specific situation.

      Better yet, try not to speak in general terms. If you go around making unqualified statements like "I've come to notice that there is a large segment of the population that...", you're really setting yourself up for a bunch of anecdotal responses.

    236. Re:Well that's stupid. by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Something to consider though, is that has there ever really been a time when free speech was not met with ostracism?

      Perhaps not... Still, I don't think that's something to be proud of.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    237. Re:Well that's stupid. by carnalforge · · Score: 1

      from http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Voltaire :

      Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write

      Compare it to the (unalienable IMO) right to make money

      --
      :wq!
    238. Re:Well that's stupid. by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      Oh, no, that means no more playing the indians in a game of cowboys and indians, or as my niece and newphews played it, Patriots and Scuds. No more flying Japanese and Russian planes in combat flight simulators, or playing the empire roles in Tie Fighter.
      Maybe by just calling them opposing forces, it closer refects another view of the situation, that often the Taliban were just freedom fighters trying to defend their way of life from the invaders. Thy might be right or wrong, but that shouldnt make predending to be them wrong in a game. it appears it is still OK to be a Marine in the game and take THEM out.
      I am still stunned that this is a major issue in the US, the "land of the free" where it is OK to have a dissenting viewpoint from the majority.
      I guess next it i''l be a new version of reds under the bed. There are already leafelets helping people identify "Terrorists" in their neighbourhood, and dob them in.

    239. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe you. My grandfather died a few years ago, at the age of 92. He was an Austrian doctor. In 1940, he was drafted into the Wehrmacht. After the allied forces had won, he was sent to the Birkenau concentration camp to help treat the few who had somehow survived. A British officer commanded him to line up the corpses from the death pits around a certain building, head to foot, row after row, so that the extremity of what had happened there could be grasped and documented on a photo. I occasionally meet people who doubt that concentration camps even existed. They weren't there, and I wasn't there, but I saw the look on my grandpa's face when he told us this story. To me, this is all the proof I will ever need.

      It feels utterly, horribly wrong for me to play the Axis side in a game, and yet I've done it. It was fun, just like playing the guy from Castle Wolfenstein was fun. They're just games, after all. I have also watched dozens of American action movies where Germans or Austrians are collectively depicted as evil stereotypical Nazis, and I still enjoyed those movies. They're just movies, after all. People should get over themselves and concentrate on what needs to be done instead of what ought to be seen.

      AC, cause I don't want my family history associated with my /. nick.

      PS: I also admit to having played the Harkonnen side in Dune 2. I know. I'm damaged.

    240. Re:Well that's stupid. by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      That's the kind of think I'd jump right to UrbanDictionary for - likewise, on some other things, I'd head right to Wikipedia.
      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poopsocking

      Basically, it's playing so obsessively that you end up taking a crap in a sock so you don't have to get up to use the toilet.

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    241. Re:Well that's stupid. by lavacano201014 · · Score: 1

      How is "I'm not going to sell this here" an economic sanction?

      --
      A wise man once said, "Where is my other quotation mark?
    242. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whiners? You actually call someone waiting for a loved one to return from deployment a whiner? Maybe you should spend a year waiting for a loved one to return from a war zone...or better yet, man-up, enlist and go over yourself for a while before you decide to call family members "whiners".

    243. Re:Well that's stupid. by kdemetter · · Score: 1

      Indeed , it is no different , as they should not censor tv shows either .
      I agree with the GP : you have the power to turn off the TV . You just need to find the remote.

    244. Re:Well that's stupid. by kdemetter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Even if you feel that you are correct and the opposition is overreacting - sometimes it's in your own best interest to avoid upsetting other people. "

      That is how you can turn a democracy into a dictatorship.

      It's completely like that here in Europe : if you protest something the EU doesn't like , they will make it very clear you should "avoid upsetting people , aka shut up " .
      Just look at the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty : people spoke up against them , the EU basically told them to shut up , and they just carried on with implementing it , as if nothing happened.

      Granted , it's a bit far fetched for a game , but it's the same idea : EA is reacting out of fear , not because they care so much ( then they wouldn't have put it in there in the first place ) .

    245. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      I actually do not think this feature is universally evenly distributed, and often find it more strongly in some places (e.g. the military) than others.

      I grant you that most people care more about their own than about others. But there's a gap between that and expecting, universally, that everyone else respect and recognize them for exceptional treatment. The angry exceptionalism (blended with self-pity) seems strongest among the military in the US (less elsewhere! Burden of empire, I guess) and the police.

    246. Re:Well that's stupid. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      which makes you wonder why EA even bothered, the Fox not-News audience definitely not game players, they are grumpy old white folk who spend all day mindless staring at cable TV.

      Uh, duh: it kept them in the news.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    247. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just pray that there's either a mod or some easy hack that allows you to fix the labeling of people in the game when it comes out. They can call the mod the depussifier.

    248. Re:Well that's stupid. by smitty97 · · Score: 1

      You don't remember them erasing the twin towers from movies?

      --
      mod me funny
    249. Re:Well that's stupid. by gregrah · · Score: 1

      "Even if you feel that you are correct and the opposition is overreacting - sometimes it's in your own best interest to avoid upsetting other people. " That is how you can turn a democracy into a dictatorship.

      What I was describing above was "compromise". Compromise is the cornerstone of a functioning democracy.

      Just look at the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty : people spoke up against them , the EU basically told them to shut up , and they just carried on with implementing it , as if nothing happened.

      Granted , it's a bit far fetched for a game , but it's the same idea

      It's completely far fetched. You might as well have compared the families of fallen soldiers who are protesting to Nazis, it would be the same sort of argument. Without demonstrating a causal link from "change 'Taliban' to 'Opposition Forces'" to "turn our democratic government into a dictatorship", you have also committed a logical fallacy. You are assuming that just because people have chosen to compromise on this particular issue, they will similarly compromise on every other issue that they face, which is just absurd.

      To demonstrate, let me refute your argument with a similar technique: You are saying that people should refuse to be silenced. Al Qaida was refusing to be silenced when they bombed the world trade center on 9/11. Therefore, refusing to be silenced leads violent acts of terrorism. If EA didn't compromise on this particular issue, then the world would have been overrun by violent terrorists. (See what I just did there?)

      All I'm saying is: try to focus on the issue at hand instead of making every little decision into a matter of life and death.

    250. Re:Well that's stupid. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      As so could I. But I can't think of any that personalize the conflict in a way that potentially demoralizes the victims of it which is why this got so much attention.

      It's really about who paid attention to it, spoke out against it, and the ability of them to gather sympathy from others. You can't quit put a face with this much power to the more despicable examples of war profiteering you may find. With this one, the face is the guy or woman, who for whatever reason found themselves serving in the military and through a chain of events largely outside their own control, was thrust into conflict with the enemy and harmed or killed in some way, that is now being exploited against their will. That has all the element of a Hollywood top-grossing block buster movie that the entire nation goes to see the little guy beat the perceived bad guys exploiting their good name.

    251. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'am German and i think the US and GB should be taken out of the games as they killed many Germans!
      France can stay in.

    252. Re:Well that's stupid. by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Hey man, you can't mark with lead paint, think of the children!

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    253. Re:Well that's stupid. by ieatcookies · · Score: 1

      The people that are against this stuff believe it's morally wrong or insensitive and you suggest they simply ignore it because you disagree with their assessment. That is indeed radical in a sense.

    254. Re:Well that's stupid. by jandersen · · Score: 1

      None of these whiners were going to buy this game ...

      While I agree in principle, that one shouldn't censor out the controversial part of a game just to be PC, I think you shoot yourself in the foot by starting to call people names; that way you have lowered the discussion to a level that precludes any compromise. And objectively speaking, you are in opposition to the majority of people when you want to be allowed to play the enemy side, so you are the one that has an objective need to be persuasive and reach some form of compromise - your opponents don't really care, they have got their way, haven't they?

      Apart from that, seeing only the one side if what games have always offered in the past - and fantasy stories before that. It may even be the reason why LotR is so popular - because the heroes are good all the way through and the enemy is completely evil. Personally, I think it would be very refreshing if one could see the other side - refreshing and intellectually stimulating. So far I have only seen it in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books.

    255. Re:Well that's stupid. by Molt · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately though by offended those who want blood and guts they're offending their own target audience for the game. If they're seen to be watering-down their content at the demands of protests it won't help them keep the attention of the gamers from the other twenty million almost identical shooters released this year.

      --
      404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'
    256. Re:Well that's stupid. by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      I don't mind that people quote me, but at least have the common courtesy to attribute it to me. (This is not the first time on /. and it's starting to annoy me.)

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    257. Re:Well that's stupid. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      While I agree with your overall point, I don't think it would necessarily apply here as they aren't really watering down the blood and guts part, just the names to protect the innocent of sorts parts. You are still going to get the blood and guts, your just not going to be labeled team Taliban or whatever now.

      PS.. The names to protect the innocent isn't a statement that one side is innocent, it was just a play off the movies and TV shows that says "the events in this are real, just the name have been changed to protect the innocent" BS you get whenever their program is to close to the real thing.

  2. Taliban Playable? by bejiitas_wrath · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Surely not, how would they even think of putting this in a game these days?

    --
    liberare massarum ex ignorantia, clausa descendit molestie.
    1. Re:Taliban Playable? by snowraver1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is so wrong with it? It's a fact. Americans and the Taliban and fighting. Why hide the truth? Are we supposed to just pretend that Americans and the Taliban are "Super Best Friends"? I know, let's just ignore everything.

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    2. Re:Taliban Playable? by characterZer0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. We are supposed to dehumanize the Taliban and make sure nobody thinks from their perspective, so we can continue to kill them with no twinge of guilt.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    3. Re:Taliban Playable? by xaxa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are the Americans (?) still referred to as such? In the interest of fairness, I think they should be called the "invading force".

    4. Re:Taliban Playable? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Americans, Canadians, Germans, Dutch, French, Afghanis, Pakistanis, British, Mongolians, Australians, New Zealanders, and a host of others are fighting with the Taliban.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Security_Assistance_Force#Contributing_nations

      Plus having the Taliban as a faction gives some ammunition to radicals here and abroad that the Afghan War is some sort of money making scheme.

      Personally, I think they should have kept the name "Taliban" as the name for OpFor, but it's EA's game, their call.

    5. Re:Taliban Playable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both sides are out to get you. One side via suicide bombers and the other side via friendly fire.

    6. Re:Taliban Playable? by mweather · · Score: 1

      Yep, lest we harm the delicate sensibilities of any innocent Afghans that may have lost loved ones in a botched drone strike.

    7. Re:Taliban Playable? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      So it'd be better if the game had some missions from their side of things?

      Maybe take a technical full of Taliban down to the village, kill the girls going to school there, hang the homosexual man who just moved back from Kandahar and for a bonus, destroy 20 of 20 DVD players and cell phones.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Ideology

    8. Re:Taliban Playable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then maintain your poppy fields. It'd be kind of like Farmville.

    9. Re:Taliban Playable? by Iburnaga · · Score: 1

      Mod Parent up. Strip the name from one, strip the name from all the others.

      --
      iburnaga.blogspot.com
    10. Re:Taliban Playable? by mweather · · Score: 1

      My favourite CS maps were the ones where I got to play as a terrorist.

    11. Re:Taliban Playable? by abigor · · Score: 1

      Good idea, except it would be more realistic to throw acid on the girls instead. And don't forget the side-missions of stalking around town grabbing men's beards to make sure they're long enough.

    12. Re:Taliban Playable? by abigor · · Score: 1

      That is one kooky-ass website you've got there.

    13. Re:Taliban Playable? by Wannabe+Code+Monkey · · Score: 1

      What is so wrong with it? It's a fact. Americans and the Taliban and fighting. Why hide the truth? Are we supposed to just pretend that Americans and the Taliban are "Super Best Friends"? I know, let's just ignore everything.

      I'm not saying I agree with the decision, but I think you're missing something. The issue isn't hiding/acknowledging the fact that Americans are fighting the Taliban, it's allowing users to play as the Taliban that has people upset. If you could just play as the Americans and the enemies were the Taliban, I don't think anyone would be complaining (except those who would decry this type violence in any video game). I know, it's 'us' vs 'them'. And what if 'they' created a video game 'they' would be the good guys, and it would be horrible to play as 'us'. And yes, the whole, "But you can play as Germans and Japanese in WW2 games; and you can play as the South in Civil War games" argument does hold water. I'm not saying I agree with the move. I'm just saying it's not as simple as recognizing the Taliban or not.

      What would you think about a game where you could play as the Ku Klux Klan and the missions were to lynch black people? Would that be okay just because "It's a fact. The KKK lynched black people. Why hide the truth?"

      --
      We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
    14. Re:Taliban Playable? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      No. We are supposed to dehumanize the Taliban and make sure nobody thinks from their perspective, so we can continue to kill them with no twinge of guilt.

      Oh. For. Fuck's. Sake.

      It's exactly that kind of whiny soccer-mom vaginababble that got it removed in the first place. Maybe we should do away with all that uber-violent 'shooting' in FPSs too. We should have more multiplayer games where teams perform laudable tasks, like walking to cure breast cancer, or "battling injustice" - with words of course, none of those nasty phallic guns.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    15. Re:Taliban Playable? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously suggesting that Americans don't lynch gay men? I mean seriously? It's not common place, but there's a disturbingly large number of Americans that think that's OK.

      Sure that's comparing those that are OK with it with those that do it, but trying to play the moral superiority card over that issue is just asinine. Considering that it's only recently become a hate crime to lynch gays.

    16. Re:Taliban Playable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't that all of them?

    17. Re:Taliban Playable? by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      Current decision removes significant chunk of Muslims who would have played this game (on the side of Taliban). I am too old for this, but some of my younger brothers in Faith would certainly play.

      The ultra-patriotic position in US, demonizing Taliban (who is just a guerilla force fighting for independence of its country from foreign troops), is ideological propaganda and imposing it on everybody is nothing else but fascism.

      People should be able to freely go to other countries to join freedom fighters even if those freedom fighters are fighting American allies (like Kashmir freedom fighters fighting India).

      Why American Jews are allowed to go to "Israel" to do all kind of physical action against Palestinians, but American Pakistanis are not allowed to go to Kashmeer to do the same action against India?

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    18. Re:Taliban Playable? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      How many lynchings have there been in the last 15 years? 2-3?

      Do American soldiers run around the US lynching homosexuals? No. Do/did the Taliban? Yes.

      http://www.globalgayz.com/country/Afghanistan/view/AFG/gay-afghanistan-after-the-taliban-homosexuality-as-tradition

      I specifically mentioned Kandahar because it has that bisexual tradition.

    19. Re:Taliban Playable? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Ok, I have to ask...

      Did you coin the term "vaginababble" just now, or did you pick it up from somewhere else? Because it's going into my lexicon right now.

    20. Re:Taliban Playable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the Pakistanis are supporting the Taliban. Don't be fooled by politically correct mainstream media coverage. The Pakistanis are taking American aid on the one hand, and biting America hard in the ass at the same time.

    21. Re:Taliban Playable? by rdwulfe · · Score: 1

      We have always been at war with Middleastasia. We will always be at war with Middleastasia.

    22. Re:Taliban Playable? by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point. Deliberately or accidentally, I'm not quite sure, but the point has been missed nonetheless.

      Nobody is denying that the Taliban exists or is fighting American soldiers. That's not what this is about. It's about how offensive it is to soldiers, for people to play as their enemy, pretending, for enjoyment, to kill them and their brethren. They know better than anyone that the Taliban exists. They would just rather you show some more respect for their sacrifices.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    23. Re:Taliban Playable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. We are supposed to dehumanize the Taliban and make sure nobody thinks from their perspective, so we can continue to kill them with no twinge of guilt.

      Sure, let's think from their perspective:

      • Let's take control over Afghanistan when weakened after the Russians.
      • Let's forbid girls from going to school.
      • Let's dress women like tents and treat them like chattel.
      • Let's support al Qaeda, even after the 9/11 attacks.
      • Let's refuse to hand over bin Laden, even after the 9/11 attacks.
      • Let's forbid film, musical instruments, and pretty well anything not associated with Islam.
      • Let's behead people for the tiniest misstep, stone them to death or cut off limbs.
      • Let's blow up the Bamayani Bhuddas.
      • Let's destroy every aspect of traditional Afghan culture.

      Dehumanize them? Hell, we don't have to. They do a damned good job themselves.

    24. Re:Taliban Playable? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      "What would you think about a game where you could play as the Ku Klux Klan and the missions were to lynch black people?"

      I wouldn't care because it isn't actually happening. It's a game. At most, I would exercise my right to not buy the content, not try to ruin it for anyone, who, for some reason, wants it.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    25. Re:Taliban Playable? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      Made it up on the fly, just now. I suspect I'll be using it again, too.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    26. Re:Taliban Playable? by operagost · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously suggesting that Americans don't lynch gay men? I mean seriously? It's not common place, but there's a disturbingly large number of Americans that think that's OK.

      [citation needed] And unless we're prosecuting thought crime, immoral thoughts (not actions) are the concern of religious institutions, not the government.

      Considering that it's only recently become a hate crime to lynch gays.

      It's always been a crime to torture and kill people. Labeling something a "hate crime" and giving it a special penalty is creating a thought crime. This is against the 14th amendment.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    27. Re:Taliban Playable? by operagost · · Score: 1

      You forgot Poland.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    28. Re:Taliban Playable? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      They are in there with "host of others", but I know Poland have been in Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq, and who know what else.

      GROM were helping to seize and guard Basra's oil terminal on the first days of the invasion.

      My great-great grandparents on my mother's side were German Jews living in Kulm/Chemno

    29. Re:Taliban Playable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if in Afghanistan the new hit game, "Jihad: Resistance" will only allow you to play as the Taliban and not as the Americans, which due to a recent PR problem have been relabeled "invading forces"?

    30. Re:Taliban Playable? by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Anyone who throws battery acid in schoolgirls' faces to prevent them from going to school and who doesn't let widows work to support their starving children has already dehumanized themselves.

    31. Re:Taliban Playable? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The ultra-patriotic position in US, demonizing Taliban (who is just a guerilla force fighting for independence of its country from foreign troops), is ideological propaganda and imposing it on everybody is nothing else but fascism.

      In the US, you're absolutely free to make your own game where not only Taliban is present, but they go around liberating villages from kaffirs and munafiks while burqa-clad girls welcome them with flowers.

      Of course, so far, all games produced along these lines (I recall one FPS about Palestinians fighting Israel) have invariably sucked due to lack of resources...

    32. Re:Taliban Playable? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      They should leave the Taliban in, but how about making it realistic?

      Say, you have to spend an hour of game time planting the IED. Depending on your luck you might even blow yourself up doing so. Then maybe - just maybe - it actually gets someone, at which point you ambush them. Just mind the fact that their rifles are accurate at twice as much distance as yours, that they have heavy MGs, and their body armor is often good enough to stop your rounds.

      Now, if you don't manage to overrun them within 15 minutes and successfully retreat, a plane comes and bombs the crap out of you, and you die.

    33. Re:Taliban Playable? by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      "In the US, you're absolutely free to make your own game "

      Ah, the old libertarian argument: "my way or highway"... You do realize it works only on libertarians?

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    34. Re:Taliban Playable? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I don't see what this has to do with libertarianism. I'm certainly not one (see sig). But we're talking here about a private video game maker making design decisions about their product to maximize the target audience.

      Are you claiming an obligation on the state to fund a specific percentage of video games reflecting your viewpoint, or what?

    35. Re:Taliban Playable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Super Best Friends" is the prequel that features the Americans and the Talibans against the Russians (err, I mean the Opposing Forces).

    36. Re:Taliban Playable? by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      They can do whatever they want, and I can ridicule whatever they do. Who is libertarian now?

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  3. Good. by glrotate · · Score: 1, Interesting

    An example of how a corporation can be influenced to act a bit more responsibly through fear of public backlash.

    1. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you mean a bad example of a corporation being a pussy in face of a bunch of whiners? The fact of the matter is that you are still playing as the Taliban and all the models are exactly the same. All this is is a white-washing of the name.

    2. Re:Good. by JonySuede · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't feel that suppressing an artistic representation of a current war because of a fear of public backlash is the right thing to do. True that for the shareholder EA this is certainly the most responsible approach, but with regards to the principle behind the US constitution and the civic liberties in general, I feel that this is totally irresponsible.

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    3. Re:Good. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      How is this a good thing, exactly? This is blatant censorship (not forced, but it still is) imposed by idiots who can't handle imaginary content that they didn't even need to buy in the first place. If they can't handle it, it should not be ruined for everyone who can.

      DRM? Lobbying for laws that will take away the rights of the average citizen (ACTA, DMCA)? The average person doesn't care enough about that to complain, they only care about things that they actually understand.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    4. Re:Good. by flintmecha · · Score: 1

      Come off it. All this does is send a message that game publishers can be influenced by a vocal minority of people who have nothing to do with video games.

    5. Re:Good. by hedwards · · Score: 1

      You mean by sanitizing the war, downplaying the portions that aren't popular and preventing people from taking actions in a game which have precisely zero to do with reality?

      In what fashion would it have been any more irresponsible than releasing the game in the first place?

    6. Re:Good. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      this decision is irresponsible. It's a slap in the face to the very values soldiers fight for. IT's bowing to a vocal minority.

      It's no different then a religious group trying to silence dissenting opinion.

      Would you think it was good if the removed the killing to supplicate Buddhist? How is silencing a group ever a good thing?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:Good. by JeffSpudrinski · · Score: 0, Troll

      I think he meant exactly what he wrote, and I agree with him.

      While there are those (possibly yourself) who would probably play a game called "Escape from the World Trade Center" it would be in extremely bad taste for a company to make a game like this because of it being in poor taste.

      I'd wager a bet that you don't have any loved ones in harm's way right now.

      Corporate responsibility...there's nothing wrong with it and I'm glad to see EA showing good sense here.

      If it bothers you that they removed the name "Taliban" from the game menu, then go buy some white out and write it on your own TV screen.

      Just my $0.02.

      -JJS

    8. Re:Good. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      All this is is a white-washing of the name.

      Well yes, but the same can be said of any company's response to public feedback. People just slap on that label when they disagree with the wider community.

      Call it what you want, point out whatever ulterior motives you like, but the advantages of corporate responsibility to the public far, far outweigh the disadvantages. Sure, you may lose something you want from time to time, but it's an invaluable safeguard.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    9. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'll tell you what then - whenever you see and hear "Opposition Forces" in all the game text and audio, shout at the television: "OH NOES ITS TEH TALIBANZ IN MUH TEEVEEZ!"

      Maybe that'll make you feel better.

    10. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 1

      not forced, but it still is) imposed

      If it's not forced, nobody's "imposing" it. If the content is all imaginary, then fucking "imagine" a different name than the one EA gave the other side, out of deference to the sensitivities of other people who likely DO buy a lot of their games, just not THIS ONE.

      You are crazy if you think this is anything other than EA saying: "Which will cost us more: leave the name in, and sell a few more copies of this title to a few whiny bitches on slashdot who will probably just pirate the game anyway, or take the name out, and sell hundreds of thousands of other games to the people who might boycott our games if we offend them."

    11. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      I think he meant exactly what he wrote, and I agree with him.

      Good for you. I'm sure you feel quite smug and happy about using the bodies of dead soldiers as a tool for censorship. Besides it's quite funny how a number of actual serving military personnel have been asked about this game and have had no issues with it while a bunch of people wrapping themselves up in the flag and dead soldiers are the most vocally against it. Funny, no?

      While there are those (possibly yourself) who would probably play a game called "Escape from the World Trade Center" it would be in extremely bad taste for a company to make a game like this because of it being in poor taste.

      If you find it in poor taste, then *gasp* don't buy or play the game. That is a better message to send to the developers than trying to get their game banned and censored.

      I'd wager a bet that you don't have any loved ones in harm's way right now.

      Corporate responsibility...there's nothing wrong with it and I'm glad to see EA showing good sense here.

      But this makes absolutely zero substantive changes to the game. You can still play as the same "taliban" characters and you can still kill American soliders. This name change does absolutely nothing to change that. Not to mention how everyone playing the game is still going to refer to that side as the Taliban despite this change.

      If it bothers you that they removed the name "Taliban" from the game menu, then go buy some white out and write it on your own TV screen.

      Why should I have to? If you are so bothered by the game *gasp* just ignore it and don't buy it. I know, really crazy idea huh?

    12. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Everyone is going to do it anyway plus it is highly likely there will be a mod within days of release that makes the name change go back to Taliban so basically all this whining and the asinine name change will amount to all of squat.

    13. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      I'd wager a bet that you don't have any loved ones in harm's way right now.

      My reply to this got cut off so I'll post it again.

      Actually I do. So what? They're fine with this game as well. Was there an actually substantive point you were trying to make or was this just a pathetic attempt at trying to paint me as some sort of "terrist sympathizer" or some such nonsense?

    14. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 1

      So then why are you so upset about the change again, and whining ceaselessly about it here?

    15. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      So then why are you so upset about the change again

      Because it's despicable to wrap yourself in the flag and dead soldiers in an attempt to censor and impose economic sanctions on others?

    16. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 1

      Considering it's the families of dead soldiers speaking out... who would you suggest is more suited to speak on their behalf?

    17. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Considering it's the families of dead soldiers speaking out...

      And? Why is this supposed to hold any sway over me? I'm sorry, but I don't really care. Doing something despicable but attempting to wrap yourself and your cause up in the flag and the death of a soldier doesn't make it such a thing less despicable. In fact, I would listen even less to someone who attempts to use the deaths of soldiers as a vehicle to impose censorship and economic sanctions on others.

    18. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 1

      Why is this supposed to hold any sway over me?

      It's not. It's supposed to hold sway over EA, who are profiting from their depiction of the ongoing war that has cost members of these families their lives. EA is doing the decent thing, and listening to their concerns, and trying to be sensitive to them.

      You get the same exact game, with slightly changed names in a few of the game modes. You're not losing any component of the game, they're not removing sections of it, they're just changing a name. Why do you care so much about a few bytes of text that is irrelevant to the actual game play?

      And once again: If the people who are *directly* affected by this war are not allowed to express concerns about people profiting from depictions of it, what makes you think that EA (or anybody else) should give 2 hoots about the opinion of some random nut on /.?

    19. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      It's supposed to hold sway over EA, who are profiting from their depiction of the ongoing war that has cost members of these families their lives.

      So if these people don't like the game they don't have to buy or play it.

      EA is doing the decent thing, and listening to their concerns, and trying to be sensitive to them.

      By doing a completely worthless name change but still allowing people to play as the "Taliban" characters and continue to kill American soldiers in game?

      Why do you care so much about a few bytes of text that is irrelevant to the actual game play?

      Actually I'm not the one who cares about the irrelevant text. I'm the one who finds it absolutely amusing that the entire controversy and whining is about an irrelevant piece of text. So it's okay to kill American soldiers while playing with the exact same characters that still are modeled after Taliban fighters but they just can't be called "The Taliban"? That has to be the most asinine outrage I've ever heard.

      And once again: If the people who are *directly* affected by this war are not allowed to express concerns about people profiting from depictions of it, what makes you think that EA (or anybody else) should give 2 hoots about the opinion of some random nut on /.?

      They can express their concerns all they want. I will still point out that it's despicable to use the death of a love one as a vehicle to attempt to get games censored and as an excuse to ban the sale of the game on military bases. Secondly, EA should be caring about the opinions of the people who are actually going to be buying the game versus these whiners who were never going to buy it to begin with.

    20. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 1

      So if these people don't like the game they don't have to buy or play it.

      And they likely won't. And they also likely will avoid all future EA titles that they may have been inclined to purchase, too. And that hurts EA's bottom line much more than the 2 or 3 outraged nerds on slashdot who won't buy the game because they did this: s/Taliban/Opposition Forces/g, without having any real impact on the game play.

      Actually I'm not the one who cares about the irrelevant text.

      It's funny you should say that, because there are examples littered all throughout this thread where you're waxing poetic in fairly inflamed tones about how this is "a bunch of whiners whitewashing a name." Like this, from your post above:

      I think you mean a bad example of a corporation being a pussy in face of a bunch of whiners? The fact of the matter is that you are still playing as the Taliban and all the models are exactly the same. All this is is a white-washing of the name.

      Sounds like you're a lot more upset about a name change than you'd like to admit. Or perhaps you'd like to retract the purple prose, and restate your position in a more reasonable tone?

    21. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      And they likely won't. And they also likely will avoid all future EA titles that they may have been inclined to purchase, too. And that hurts EA's bottom line much more than the 2 or 3 outraged nerds on slashdot who won't buy the game because they did this: s/Taliban/Opposition Forces/g, without having any real impact on the game play.

      The only reason EA was going to be hurt by this was because these crybabies were going to get the game banned for sale on bases. These people who are whining were not potential customers for this game to begin with.

      It's funny you should say that, because there are examples littered all throughout this thread where you're waxing poetic in fairly inflamed tones about how this is "a bunch of whiners whitewashing a name." Like this, from your post above:

      I think you mean a bad example of a corporation being a pussy in face of a bunch of whiners? The fact of the matter is that you are still playing as the Taliban and all the models are exactly the same. All this is is a white-washing of the name.

      It's funny how you only selectively quote my and ignore statements that I have made over and over again such as:

      So it's okay to kill American soldiers while playing with the exact same characters that still are modeled after Taliban fighters but they just can't be called "The Taliban"?

      Come on, answer the question and stop dodging it.

      Sounds like you're a lot more upset about a name change than you'd like to admit.

      Nope, you're just a poor mind reader. The only thing I'm upset at is people who use the flag and dead soldiers as a way to try to get things censored, economically sanctioned or as some sort of way to stifle opposition to their statements.

      Or perhaps you'd like to retract the purple prose, and restate your position in a more reasonable tone?

      Nope, I stand by all I say. These people are despicable.

    22. Re:Good. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      In fact, I would listen even less to someone who attempts to use the deaths of soldiers as a vehicle to impose censorship and economic sanctions on others.

      Like various US presidents and their friends? :)

      --
    23. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...f a bunch of whiners...

      Christ I agree with your point of view but find a different word - Christ, expand your vocabulary a little bit.

    24. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 1

      The only reason EA was going to be hurt by this was because these crybabies were going to get the game banned for sale on bases. These people who are whining were not potential customers for this game to begin with.

      So it's okay for you to wrap yourself in the flag to speak for the servicemen whose "freedoms" are being trampled by Gamestop *voluntarily* deciding not to sell a game ONLY in its AAFES outlets, out of deference to the families who expressed their objections to this game? God forbid somebody have to order it from Amazon, or go to a Gamestop off base, right?

      The only reason EA was going to be hurt by this was because these crybabies were going to get the game banned for sale on bases. These people who are whining were not potential customers for this game to begin with.

      You're an idiot. MoH is NOT the only game EA makes. These people might not be the market for MoH, but I'm sure that EA wouldn't mind selling them a copy of Madden, or Tiger Woods Golf, or any of the other dozens of popular games they sell.

      This entire issue can be boiled down to this statement: "EA has decided that making people happy who certainly buy numerous titles from them makes more financial sense than pissing off a sizable group of people and attracting negative publicity with a single title, where a 30-second find & replace will make everybody happy."

      As for answering your question about "Is it okay..." - apparently to the people raising the objection, it is PERFECTLY okay. They seem satisfied that EA is changing the name, EA gets to continue selling its game, and the only thing that changes is some text that's displayed on a tv screen, which means that you are blowing this WAY out of proportion - the game is *identical,* with the exception of a single string changed from "Taliban" to "Opposition Forces".

      If it's such a ridiculous change to argue for EA to make, isn't it also a ridiculous change to get upset about, and wrap in the cloak of "They're stealin our freedomz! And our jerbs!"?

    25. Re:Good. by gregrah · · Score: 1

      Write a letter to EA and tell them that because the changed the word "Taliban" to "Opposition", you feel they are being "totally irresponsible with regards to the principle behind the US constitution and the civic liberties in general", and you will never buy another EA game again.

      Maybe they will listen to you and change it back. They might even offer you a senior management position. Because, clearly, you are more capable of rational and pragmatic decision making than anyone currently working at EA.

    26. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      So it's okay for you to wrap yourself in the flag to speak for the servicemen whose "freedoms" are being trampled by Gamestop *voluntarily* deciding not to sell a game ONLY in its AAFES outlets, out of deference to the families who expressed their objections to this game?

      Really? This is the best trolling you can come up with as a response?

      God forbid somebody have to order it from Amazon, or go to a Gamestop off base, right?

      Why should they have to do that at all? Why should the actual customers have to be put out because of some crybaby?

      You're an idiot. MoH is NOT the only game EA makes. These people might not be the market for MoH, but I'm sure that EA wouldn't mind selling them a copy of Madden, or Tiger Woods Golf, or any of the other dozens of popular games they sell.

      I can pretty much assure you that the mother who started this and the head of the AAEFS and the heads of the other service branches are not and were never EA customers.

      This entire issue can be boiled down to this statement: "EA has decided that making people happy who certainly buy numerous titles from them makes more financial sense than pissing off a sizable group of people and attracting negative publicity with a single title, where a 30-second find & replace will make everybody happy."

      And yet you've provided no proof that these whiners are long-time customers and have bought even a single EA title or a single video game in their life.

      As for answering your question about "Is it okay..." - apparently to the people raising the objection, it is PERFECTLY okay.

      Thus proving that they are huge fucking idiots.

      They seem satisfied that EA is changing the name, EA gets to continue selling its game, and the only thing that changes is some text that's displayed on a tv screen, which means that you are blowing this WAY out of proportion - the game is *identical,* with the exception of a single string changed from "Taliban" to "Opposition Forces"./quote>

      How am I blowing this out of proportion? I wasn't the crybaby who started this whole thing to begin with.

      If it's such a ridiculous change to argue for EA to make, isn't it also a ridiculous change to get upset about, and wrap in the cloak of "They're stealin our freedomz! And our jerbs!"?

      No, I think it's perfectly acceptable to point out that people who try to use the corpses of soldiers to censor and ban games is a despicable act.

    27. Re:Good. by carnalforge · · Score: 1

      Exactly what i thought, no mood points unfortunately

      --
      :wq!
    28. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a voluntary action done for economic purposes.

  4. This type of censoring is a danger to human rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck. I really wanted to get this too. I guess there is always the "moral" alternative of piracy.

  5. ...In other news, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Puppet Ackhmed the Terrorist is banned from television appearances due to hate speech.

    1. Re:...In other news, by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

      Go Jeff Dunham!

      --
      How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  6. Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 1

    Ok, look...I understand why there was public and military outcry (similar to the "no russian" level in MW2), but I wonder if there would have been as much controversy had it been for a war that was no longer going on. Beyond that, they are still in the game...they just aren't called 'Taliban'...what's in a name? This makes me think back to the GLA in C&C Generals...

    1. Re:Ugh. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      There would be little controversy for a game that featured a war that is no longer going on. Why? People only care about things that they are personally offended with, and they don't care about anyone else. But, hey, instead of simply not buying the game, let's have it censored and ruin it for everyone who wanted the content to stay!

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    2. Re:Ugh. by dropzonetoe · · Score: 1

      Take care when you say military outcry. Six years in the Army myself, one tour to Iraq under my belt. I keep in contact with my far flung buddies by playing MW2. My whole friend list is comprised of only military members from across the different branches, and MOS's. From a Marine that was injured in Fallujah, to a National Guardsmen(11B) who lost a highschool buddy to a IED on their deployment one vehicle in front of his, MP's, Medics, Admin, Infantry, even one Ranger. Not one of them has a problem with playing against the taliban(or as them either). From what I had read it was a mother of a fallen officer who wants the game pulled as it offended her... Granted I don't know every member of every branch and their moral outrage at the topic but from every soldier, marines, airmen and sailor I have talked to none have had a problem with it.

      --
      Look out, you'll shoot Dorkus.
    3. Re:Ugh. by jd · · Score: 1

      Well, in Japan they apparently teach history and play video games in which they win World War 2. This is highly important to them, but is not a war that is currently going on. I suspect that if EA produced a game in which you were a Vietnamese soldier fighting the Americans, the American public would oppose that as well, even though it's a war that's over, but a game in which you were an American beating the Vietnamese, that would be more likely to pass muster.

      It's less about whether the war is going on (that's a feeble excuse), it's about imaginary national shame. If a person has that much shame, they should see a p-doc to deal with it, not censor others so that they can avoid ever having to face up to the fact they've serious issues.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    4. Re:Ugh. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What gets me is that there's more public outcry over the name of a team in a game than there is over an actual war. If these people their voices heard by the President and their representatives instead of a video game maker, they might actually save some lives.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Ugh. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      In fact, there hasn't been any outcry to the numerous games about previous wars. I don't recall hearing any outcry about RTC Wolfenstein when it came out. Noone except the boneheaded German government cared that it had Nazis in it. I am sure some Jews even bought the game to have fun shooting Nazis.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    6. Re:Ugh. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Oh, right, and that makes complete sense. If they use that excuse on me, I'll surely crumble! This content that they don't even need to buy must be censored at all costs!

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    7. Re:Ugh. by TDyl · · Score: 1

      EA Games, Battlefield Vietnam (2004)

      --
      Todd: I hope it proves as delicious as the farmers that grew them
    8. Re:Ugh. by morari · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thanks EA, for letting the terrorists have win. :(

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    9. Re:Ugh. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Take care when you say military outcry.

      True, but the problem is that the dissenting views from those within the military, such as yourself, get lost when you have, for example, the head of the AAEFS, heads of the various branches and these families attempting to wrap themselves in the flags and behind their "Support the troops" mantra as they to trying to paint the picture as if they are speaking for all those who serve when trying to further causes like this.

    10. Re:Ugh. by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Battlefield Vietnam, there wasn't much of an outcry about it.

  7. So now you can play as an American... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... and for extra realism you get to shoot at British, Canadian, Danish and other "allied" troops. Ultra-realistic!

    1. Re:So now you can play as an American... by Rectal+Prolapse · · Score: 1

      Americans sure love their friendly fire! (A bunch of Canadians in Afghanistan were bombed by Americans by mistake)

    2. Re:So now you can play as an American... by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      My Grandpa tells me they had a saying in WWII. When the RAF flies, the Germans duck. When the Luftwaffe flies, we duck. When the US Airforce flies, everybody ducks. Not much has changed.

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    3. Re:So now you can play as an American... by hduff · · Score: 1

      ... and for extra realism you get to shoot at British, Canadian, Danish and other "allied" troops. Ultra-realistic!

      Just re-name the game "Friendly Fire".

      WIN all around!

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    4. Re:So now you can play as an American... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and for extra realism you get to shoot at British, Canadian, Danish and other "allied" troops. Ultra-realistic!

      You also get an achievement for actually being able to find any of those guys.

    5. Re:So now you can play as an American... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Hey, the Canadians, Australians and British are out there fighting, other states...more of a support role.

    6. Re:So now you can play as an American... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pity the poor fool who gets to play as Pat Tillman. He stands no chance against the Americans!

      Ethanol-fueled, incognito, captcha is "muscles"

    7. Re:So now you can play as an American... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      You also get an achievement for actually being able to find any of those guys.

      If you're an American, you might want to try looking up the front where the fighting is. Once again, we're saving your hides.

  8. !Surprising by cosm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There have been worse things in video-games. Postal 2 anyone?

    If EA had statistical evidence that they would've lost revenue through lawsuits, civil cases, and bad word-of-mouth by releasing the game with "Taliban", then perhaps this was a smart business decision. But if they are simply "bowing" if you will, well, that is lame.

    I am not for the Taliban at all, I am just saying bowing to the complainers only reinforces their behavior.

    --
    'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    1. Re:!Surprising by Midnight's+Shadow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Normally I'd agree with your position but here I think it is a bit tricky. By putting them in the game you are giving the Taliban legitimacy which a large amount of the US population would not approve of. You could also cause problems with the fanatical Muslim population because of the link the Taliban has with Islam. And lets face it the radical Muslims don't fuck around when showing their displeasure. All and all I think it was a good business strategy on EA's part to avoid that whole kettle of fish and come across that the change was inspired respect for the US armed forces. This minor controversy will also help generate hype and knowledge of the game. A win for EA on all fronts.

      Well unless the radical Muslims take offense at not being included in the game...

      --
      "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. " -Voltaire
    2. Re:!Surprising by jd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The large amount of US population has been happy to accept the aid of insurgent groups (the various resistance groups in Occupied Europe, for example) when it has been convenient. Indeed, the US was largely liberated from British rule by an insurgency. Unofficial groups that do not operate under the command of a State have existed throughout history and have been utilized by every nation on Earth. Until the Iraqi "Awakening Councils" were accepted by the government there, they too were unofficial militia operating outside of any central command structure. Don't recall hearing too many oppose them in the US.

      The reason the Taliban aren't legitimate in the eyes of the US is that the US is fighting them. Everything else is a contrived excuse.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re:!Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By putting them in the game you are giving the Taliban legitimacy

      How?

    4. Re:!Surprising by hduff · · Score: 1

      There have been worse things in video-games. Postal 2 anyone?
       

      Do not disparage such a great game. How many games allow you to pee on the Taliban?

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    5. Re:!Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's an insurgency that gives/takes legitimacy. The Taliban was the ruling class in Afghanistan. I think it's more of an extremist ideology that makes them bad guys. They were publicly shooting women in the head, for crying out loud. And for what? Adultry? And the family had forgiven her and wanted to drop charges. So what do they do? Shoot her anyway. Then they proceed to use the upright bars on the football field as a gallows and hang a few people. If we let Islamists have their way, this will be the new Superbowl halftime show.

    6. Re:!Surprising by Pranadevil2k · · Score: 1

      I think it is a decidedly bad idea to start writing our revisionist version of history before it becomes history. The fact is we're fighting a group of terrorists called the Taliban that happens to be a radical Muslim group. Putting them in a video game doesn't lend them any more 'legitimacy' than putting them in a book or a movie. If the other radical Muslims out there are offended that the Taliban are in the game, they can deal with them in real life instead of wasting time getting their names changed to 'opposing force.' Or alternatively they can make their own better version of the Taliban, but this time with blackjack and hookers. Then maybe they'll get in the next CoD.

    7. Re:!Surprising by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      The American Revolutionary War had an insurgency, as did the American Civil War, but the bulk of the fighting, the majority of battles and the majority of casualties are because of regular uniformed armies fighting by the standards and rules of war as they existed at those times.

      So really, one can't say the US war liberated by an insurgency, the territories (colonies) banded together and created regular uniformed armies and then created a multi-colonial army with territorial auxiliaries and irregulars on the periphery.

      So in Afghanistan, if the Taliban fought on the side of the Afghan National Army, it'd be similar.

      Even the American Indian Wars had regular forces on both sides fighting, albeit with small-war and insurgency tactics for many of the Indian Wars. John Chivington's attack in 1864 was notorious because it was one of the main times the Union/US forces didn't fight the American Indian war bands, instead attacking a civilian target, just as the Sioux had struck at civilian targets in Minnesota two years earlier.

    8. Re:!Surprising by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Taliban != Islam. If you don't label them, the "Opposing force" becomes any muslim, raghead, sandn*****, etc you might happen to see. This is a huge cultural problem currently in the US, where swaths of people think we were attacked by the entire middle east on 9/11 and isn't it great we have the Saudi Royal Family and Israel on our side to help spread freedom.

      Label the enemy properly, and you're one step closer to understanding why we're stuck in the region, and you're one step closer to getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. It's not a big step, but holy crap if people keep thinking we were attacked on 9/11 by Saddam Hussein I'm giving up and moving to Australia where at least there is good beer.

  9. that doesn't make sense by Punto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sick of people pretending the war has only one side. Where are the families of the dead Taliban soldiers, who are logically just as offended by the ability to play as a US soldier? don't they have a "voice" too? or it it ok to disrespect people as long as you're on the right side?

    --

    --
    Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!

    1. Re:that doesn't make sense by Hatta · · Score: 1, Troll

      Where are the families of the dead Taliban soldiers

      They're in Afghanistan, probably not playing video games.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:that doesn't make sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the Taliban soldier's families have computers/xboxes/ps3s to play the game on? I think that should answer your question.

    3. Re:that doesn't make sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to forget that the people that us (the US soldiers) are trying to protect are the families of everday Afgan nationals, the Taliban use terrorist tactic's on their own people to achieve their aims. When you choose to support an extremist militant group you accept the fact that you have put your family in harms way, the families of American soldiers have accepted the same risk, in war people die, rest assured that the Taliban is doing more of the dieing though!

      Anonymous US Soldier Kandahar Afganistan

    4. Re:that doesn't make sense by Punto · · Score: 1

      That's irrelevant, the families themselves are not playing the game, they're complaining that random people can pick up the game and play as taliban soldiers. I doubt the families of the US soldiers even *want* to play the games, they're just complaining about it.

      --

      --
      Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!

    5. Re:that doesn't make sense by Punto · · Score: 1

      That's wonderful, but you're still talking as if there's only one side of the war. There could be a guy on the other side saying the exact same things about you.

      --

      --
      Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!

    6. Re:that doesn't make sense by Stihdjia · · Score: 1

      This has the psychological effect of dehumanizing opponents in foreign wars. This has gone on for centuries. Words like gook, jap, sandnigger, raghead, etc. have been encouraged by military forces to make soldiers more willing to kill, when most humans naturally resist killing. For more on this subject, I recommend On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society by Lt.Col. Dave Grossman.

      --
      I see the fnords!
    7. Re:that doesn't make sense by vulcan1701 · · Score: 1

      So all the pirated copies of video games they sell all over the place in Afghanistan are for the tourists?

      A great number of locals DO have electricity and do play video games.

    8. Re:that doesn't make sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sick of people pretending the war has only one side. Where are the families of the dead Taliban soldiers, who are logically just as offended by the ability to play as a US soldier? don't they have a "voice" too? or it it ok to disrespect people as long as you're on the right side?

      Oh there busy planting IED's and blowing themselves up around a bunch of children and there parents to prove a point. Some are to busy to give there side also being they have fear of being stoned to death or beheaded for having a thought on there own. Im sure some of the wives of the dead Taliban soldiers would speak on this subject if they where allowed to play video games which by the way is something they would love to do since some of them are as young as 9 years old. Your right the dead Taliban have a right to speak since they so freely believe in human and civil rights! IDIOT!

  10. Delete Wolfenstein franchise entirely by Beetjebrak · · Score: 1

    Back in the day I actually enjoyed shooting brown and blue blobs of pixels yelling "Argh, mein Leben!" just before going down. History suggests that the SS wore stylish black uniforms instead of bright blue overalls though.. and yes, I'm European and the Nazi war machine ravaged my country. No problem playing games with Nazi's in them, so why should this be different for Taliban?

    --
    Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
  11. In other news... by alexo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The popular children's game has now been renamed to "cops and opposing forces"

    1. Re:In other news... by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This PC shit is fer the birds.

      Back in my day, if you offended someone, you tell them it wasn't personal and move on. Now we have both extremes.... People going out of their way to personally offend others, and people who are offended by simple shapes.

      Know this...

      It will never end.

      --
      How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
    2. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I find that generalization offensive.

    3. Re:In other news... by Beerdood · · Score: 1

      The popular children's game has now been renamed to "cops and opposing forces"

      Hey, I was a victim of police brutality - I find that offensive!

      --
      Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
    4. Re:In other news... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Sorry, sorry. Would you prefer "Opposing forces and opposing opposing forces"? How about "Opposition and counter-opposition"?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    5. Re:In other news... by alexo · · Score: 1

      Sorry, sorry. Would you prefer "Opposing forces and opposing opposing forces"? How about "Opposition and counter-opposition"?

      Are you Canadian perchance?

    6. Re:In other news... by timkar · · Score: 1

      Sorry, sorry. Would you prefer... ?

      I'm thinking "Senseless violence between to opposing forces, both of whom have equally valid points but should lay down their tools of oppression and begin to dialog."

    7. Re:In other news... by cybernanga · · Score: 1

      and people who are offended by simple shapes.

      The shapes in modern games can be very complex!

      Things have come along way since the days of Pong

      --
      www.Buy-Proxy.com - A "buyer-driven" global marketplace.
    8. Re:In other news... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      In other news the Taliban are demanding EA release a version that disallows playing as US soldiers.

    9. Re:In other news... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      "Headshot!" :-D

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  12. really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean.. really, c'mon! We can watch them kill real life soldiers, we can wish death upon them, we can blow them up for real real... but put that in a video game, aimed at adults, and that is incentive and wrong?

    1. Re:really? by jonescb · · Score: 1

      I don't think they object to killing Taliban in the game, but they don't like how players can play as the virtual Taliban in multiplayer and blow up virtual Americans. I'm not saying it's a good argument or that it's even logical, but that's what they're saying.

    2. Re:really? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Well, now that they put it that way... they can simply not buy the game.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    3. Re:really? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      But that would make too much logical sense and we can't have that. Clearly the superior choice is to use the flag and the deaths of soldiers as a vehicle to censor and impose economic sanctions on people who make games they dislike.

    4. Re:really? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      But this change doesn't stop you from playing as virtual Taliban fighters and kill Americans. That's why this change is so stupid.

  13. They're Just Future Proofing the Game by eldavojohn · · Score: 1

    They're just 'future proofing' the game for when we invade China and Gliese 581g. It will even work for our upcoming 'Civil War II: More Civil' planned by Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:They're Just Future Proofing the Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're just 'future proofing [wikipedia.org]' the game for when we invade China

      That reminds me. As a Basement Dweller, I'm offended by the portrayal of China in Fallout 3... :)

    2. Re:They're Just Future Proofing the Game by snookerhog · · Score: 1

      I think perhaps you meant when China invades the US

    3. Re:They're Just Future Proofing the Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will even work for our upcoming 'Civil War II: More Civil' planned by Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert.

      Tagline: I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler, but I'm going to shoot you anyway.

  14. Power of a word? by Dotren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems to me too many people give too much power to a simple word. Essentially that's what we're doing here right? Gameplay remains unchanged, we're just changing the name of the other team. So is it because we fear the Taliban? Should we start calling them "The opposing force that must not be named"?

    1. Re:Power of a word? by Beetjebrak · · Score: 1

      Damn muggles!

      --
      Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
    2. Re:Power of a word? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Wait, the Americans are fighting Macbeth?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Power of a word? by chichilalescu · · Score: 1

      you're missing the point. the guys who made the game want to sell it to the people objecting to the use of the word "taliban" also.
      it's not about political correctness or regulating art, it's about trying to sell stuff.

      it's kind of like the catholic church says the earth is round now.

      --
      new sig
    4. Re:Power of a word? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, the Americans are fighting the Scottish Play?

      FTFY

    5. Re:Power of a word? by precariousgray · · Score: 1

      *The opposing force formerly known as the Taliban.

      --
      not much, just being forced to manually insert line breaks into my comment
    6. Re:Power of a word? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I'm not superstitious.

      except for shows the run on Thursday. those always go bad~

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  15. Wow by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What a bunch of weak-minded idiots. If a few people who can't handle a video game with content that they don't like that they don't even have to buy complain about said content, they remove it. Those people have just ruined it for anyone who actually wanted that content, as it was originally planned to be in the game. But, no, people who wouldn't buy the game anyway get their way. Absolutely pathetic. I'm sick and tired of this blatant censorship (even if it wasn't technically forced on them). I already had zero respect for EA and any company like them, but this is insane. Might as well ban everything that someone takes offense to!

    --
    Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  16. This took a whopping 3 seconds to do. by jonescb · · Score: 2, Informative

    sed s/Taliban/GenericTerrorists/g
    So all these politically correct people will be appeased, but nothing of substance will have changed.

    1. Re:This took a whopping 3 seconds to do. by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 1

      sed -e 's/[tT]aliban/Angry Smurgs/g'

      There, fixed that for you.

    2. Re:This took a whopping 3 seconds to do. by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 1

      Ok, so I spelled Smurfs wrong. I blame the Taliban for that.

  17. other games by bhcompy · · Score: 1

    Battlefield has the Middle Eastern Coalition and maps based on battles in Iraq. Never heard any complaint about that...

  18. Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 5, Insightful
    • In real wars, people die. It is expected. All who go into a warzone do so in the knowledge that they may not return. How do you sacrifice that which you have already surrendered for King/Queen/President/Fanatic (delete according to nation) and Country?
    • Should the Americans get their name removed? There will be friends and family of the Taliban too. If this were truly about honoring the fallen, why be selective?
    • Should they retroactively delete the names of nations for World War 2 games? All of those nations had people die too, and friends and family of those fallen are still alive today.

    Of course they shouldn't. The reality is that wargames depict a historical context and history doesn't change to suit the likes of one group or another. There is only one history, the events that took place.

    Further, we learn from history that it is dangerous to make an enemy faceless. Doing so is the number one cause of wartime atrocities. What these pressure groups have basically said is that it is more important to hide the reality of the situation than it is to keep Americans aware that they are fighting against people with lives and beliefs of their own. This is a dangerous attitude to have.

    I cannot blame a company for eventually caving under pressure, especially one as small as this. But frankly this whitewashing of history is disturbing and historically the consequences of such acts have never been good. This is extremely bad juju.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      "why be selective?" Because EA is not worried about losing Taliban sales. They are, on the other hand, very worried about losing sales to Red Blooded American Patriots Who Hate The Taliban And Will Not Buy Anything Bearing Their Name.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    2. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 1

      I believe you are correct. I wonder what would have happened if EA had used what you'd said rather than their actual press release.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by Syberz · · Score: 1

      The reality is that wargames depict a historical context and history doesn't change to suit the likes of one group or another. There is only one history, the events that took place.

      I know what you're saying, but to be honest, history is written by the victors and thus is biased.

      For example, we only hear about the heroic deeds of the Allies during WWII but I'm sure there were some heroic stuff done by the Axis as well.

      --
      ~Syberz
    4. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 0, Troll

      To the far left, the answer is an overwhelming "YES" to all your questions.

    5. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by morari · · Score: 1

      The reality is that wargames depict a historical context and history doesn't change to suit the likes of one group or another. There is only one history, the events that took place.

      That's not true at all. If it were, American's would be too ashamed of what they did to the continent's indigenous people to care about whether or not the Taliban are in a videogame. History doesn't write itself. It is subtly and not-so-subtly manipulated time and time again to please various groups along the way. Think back to your mandatory high-school education... remember all of the lies they fed you under the guise of "history class"?

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    6. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The march through Russia will doubtless have been filled with heroic deeds, not least because of the extreme conditions they faced. Rommel, the commander of the German's African forces, performed many acts of heroism and is often held in high regard by military historians. Rudolph Hess is an interesting figure, not least because he managed to be reviled AND held as a hero by both sides simultaneously. That's no small achievement. A great uncle of mine who helped hold off the German forces whilst the rest of the allies escaped at Dunkirk maintained a diary of the retreat and then of his time as a POW. His description of the German forces shows a full range of people, ranging from the compassionate to the psychotic. His description is a far, far cry from what you'll see in any traditional history book.

      Not all history is written by the victors. The Bayoux Tapestry, for example, was produced by the Saxons and depicts the Saxon view of the Battle of Hastings, not the Norman perspective.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    7. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 2, Informative

      The difference between history and propaganda is that history is what actually happened, whereas propaganda is what people want to have happened. It is important not to confuse the two. History is rarely taught, because what actually happened is rarely known.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    8. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 1

      I give not a damn whether you are left-wing or right-wing, accuracy matters and honesty should come first above and beyond the whims of any faction. In this case, however, the whims come not from the left but from the extreme right. This matters only in that your own post is dishonest and that is no more acceptable than the dishonesty of anyone else.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    9. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by Syberz · · Score: 1

      You've brought some good examples there, thanks.

      You have to admit though that the average person only hears about the victor's version, you need to dig a bit to find other views.

      --
      ~Syberz
    10. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 1

      I freely admit that, which is precisely why it scares me whenever anything that might encourage people to look for other views is slammed or eliminated.

      People should be exposed to as many different views of historical events as possible, including the archaeological evidence on the ground as well as the subjective opinions of participants. The only time that I can consider restricting this to be acceptable is when someone has already done that legwork and endeavored to produce the most perspective-neutral account possible. I would consider that to be functionally the same as listening to the different views directly - to a degree. It's not possible to capture everything in a single account but critical thinking is not a skill taught in schools and you can't do much with the evidence alone without such a skill.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    11. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by morari · · Score: 2

      That's just as true for the present though. Most people don't really know what's happening now either. Hindsight doesn't seem to make these matters any clearer in the face of propaganda.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    12. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are correct, which is why it is all the more important for teachers of subjects such as histories or the humanities clearly distinguish between the two. It is by confusing the objective with the subjective that modern reporters excuse their lack of objectivity by claiming that it's all really subjective anyway. A gun was fired or it wasn't, a bridge was crossed or it wasn't, a battle was fought or it wasn't. These things may be subjectively interpreted, but their objective reality (or lack thereof) is independent of that interpretation.

      It is fair enough that some things are not knowable - because records were destroyed, or because there was a concerted effort to conceal that information permanently - but there the fact that is known is that the historical data for a definitive answer does not exist. So there is still a definite split between objective facts and subjective views. In most real-world cases, there will be additional facts - the archaeological facts on the ground. These are "facts" in the sense of object A was found at location B with a context of C and scientific tests reveal D. Because the archaeological record can be tampered with, there is nothing that definitely links object A to a specific event or a specific person. Interpretation of such a record is largely subjective.

      Actually, we can refine this two-way split a little further into a three-way split: The facts (insofar as they can be objectively known), the subjective views, and the deductive reasoning/critical thinking that allows you to produce "derivative facts" ("facts" for which no direct evidence exists but which explains both the facts that do exist AND the subjective views as far as can be reasonably done). Derivative facts are not truly objective (as different people may come to different conclusions) but neither are they truly subjective (assuming that the method used is based on the scientific method and has been shown to produce accurate conclusions when tested).

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    13. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by Maximus633 · · Score: 1

      I think the challenge to this as well is what if in the end we (BIG IF here folks) defeat the Taliban and they become an ally? I think what we are missing here is that when they become an ally we don't want to continue to make a "war" out of them or have that reminder.

      The other side to this is that using a general term (OpFor) gives them the ability to let the gamer choose what/who their enemy is. If we go to war with the penguins well that would cause problems but if we go to war with another country then it is easier to let the gamer see the OpFor as the other side.

  19. As a U.S. veteran... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please remove $10 from the purchase price if you are removing content.

  20. the terrorists have won. by asiansteev · · Score: 2

    And with that, the terrorists have truly won. Luckily the next round starts in 30... 29... 28...

  21. EA = pussies. by Trip6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'nuff said.

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:EA = pussies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EA == ENNOBLING APPEASERS.

  22. PC in games is ridiculous. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Political Correctness" is another phrase for "abolishing freedom".

    1. Re:PC in games is ridiculous. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      It's funny you say that. "Political Correctness" always seemed like another phrase for "responsibility". You can say whatever you like, and people can respond accordingly. Nowhere does it say that people have to accept it, or be polite about it, or simply not be offended. That would be a serious blow to freedom!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  23. Words mean things by muridae · · Score: 1

    this franchise will never willfully disrespect, intentionally or otherwise

    How are they thinking they can unintentionally and willfully disrespect anyone? Words mean things, people, and if they have the man power to swap a few strings somewhere in game code, they can respect their audiences intelligence by proofreading their press release.

    1. Re:Words mean things by BruceCage · · Score: 1

      Are we still allowed to call people Grammar Nazis or has that too been deemed too politically incorrect?

      --
      Perfect is the enemy of done.
  24. I don't care, as long as they LOOK like taliban by fkx · · Score: 0

    I don't care what they call them, as long as they LOOK land ACT like taliban

    Maybe you can make one look like Muhammad.

  25. Bowing to pressure by geekoid · · Score: 1

    to change your game is counter to everything soldiers fight for.

    As a former soldier, I consider pressuring someone to change in this manner shameful.

    Freedom of expression was one of the things I had joined the military to protect.

    This is no different the a cleric* telling people to burn books.

    *Since Muslims have 'Clerics' maybe WotC should be forced to change the name of that class?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Bowing to pressure by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Cleric is a greek term. It's a member of the clergy of a religion, especially one who is a priest, preacher, pastor, or other religious professional. It is often, and incorrectly, used to refer to the religious leadership in Islam, where the term priest is not accurate and where terms such as Alim or Ulama are not widely understood in the English-speaking world.

      Cleric is used in the west, officially, in the Greek, Russian and Egyptian Churches and used to be used in the Roman Catholic Church.

      So no, Islam does not have Clerics.

    2. Re:Bowing to pressure by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I know what a cleric is, sheesh.
      When was the last time you heard anyone in the media referrer to any person besides a Muslim 'religious leader' as a cleric? Not very often at all.

      also the word clerk comes from cleric.

      Non of which makes for a humorous DnD reference.

      Thanks Buzz Killington.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Bowing to pressure by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      When was the last time the media referred to a Christian as a cleric?

      9 hours ago.

      http://www.cuopm.com/newsitem_new.asp?articlenumber=1600&post200803=true

      Go have a look
      http://goo.gl/51D9

  26. ZOMG Thoughtcrime! by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Seriously people get a grip.

    Newsflash: Its not real!

    Just like I can think of killing innocent babies all day, so long as I don't physically do it, its not a issue (accept I have to live with my baby killing thoughts)... Some might say, well no its different because you are participating and showing such activities in video games. Again - Not real. What do you think the thousands of years of theatre and more recently movies are? Some sort of magic box to another dimension? Actors play (or pretend if you will) rolls, where actually quite commonly Nazi's, Taliban, and a whole host of others regularly get portrayed, and in many cases killed (but not for real... they really do get back up after the scene, you just can't see it!). Yes there are actual humans that play those roles and virtually die... Well some might argue those are professionals and not kids... In many cases they are kids, and holy shit we have a rating system for games, be a responsible parent and don't let your stupid rug rats play said game if they are too young, no matter how much they scream (and appreantly yell racial slurs from my experiance on xbox live).

    Give me a break and go read a book. Or wait no you can't do that, because there are fictional people is books that occasionally die and are assoicated with one group or another. Best to stay clear of that altogether!

    So in conclusion, please go to your nearest cave with your emergency earmuffs, dig a hole in the sand, and stuff said head into hole, you'll be much better off and so will the rest of the world.

    end rant.

  27. Localisation by lul_wat · · Score: 1

    ..so in Afghanistan/ Iraq et al are the Americans renamed to "Opposing Forces" instead?

    --
    Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
  28. EA are "being respectful" solely of botttom line by Vainglorious+Coward · · Score: 1

    this franchise will never willfully disrespect, intentionally or otherwise, your memory and service

    Like, by making a game out of it, for example...

    --
    My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
  29. Not as food as the French, though by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1

    For extra flamebait, it's been suggested that around 10% of the French fatalities at Verdun in WW1 were "friendly fire". Traditionally the military has been more dangerous to its own side than the enemy; until modern medicine and transport, more soldiers got killed (by disease, climate, training and brutality) outside active warfare than in it. Cue realistic war games in which syphilis and typhoid are far more dangerous than enemy action.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Not as food as the French, though by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Bill Maher quoted fratricide statistics of greater than 50% for modern forces. Didn't fact check it, but it makes 10% look teensy.

    2. Re:Not as food as the French, though by SETIGuy · · Score: 1

      Last stat I heard for Afghanistan was just a bit under 50%, so I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was above 50% at this point. We train soldiers to kill. Maybe it's time to put more effort into having them look before they do so. I wonder what the friendly fire stats are for they who shall not be named. Not that they are likely to keep such stats.

      It would be interesting to see if the increased use of close air support and helicopter gunships was responsible, if it's an increased "see movement, light 'em up" attitude, or if it's due to forces from multiple commands being deployed in a small area. I'm sure that report exists, but hasn't been leaked yet, AFAIK.

    3. Re:Not as food as the French, though by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      For extra flamebait, it's been suggested that around 10% of the French fatalities at Verdun in WW1 were "friendly fire". Traditionally the military has been more dangerous to its own side than the enemy; until modern medicine and transport, more soldiers got killed (by disease, climate, training and brutality) outside active warfare than in it. Cue realistic war games in which syphilis and typhoid are far more dangerous than enemy action.

      I think they could probably put in a typhoid mini-game

      The game play would be based around keeping up your fluid and electrolyte intake, whilst trying avoid shitting yourself to close to allies or water supplies.

  30. Mod by UninformedCoward · · Score: 1

    I give this 2 days before it is modded back to Taliban.

  31. Fuck that by zakkie · · Score: 1

    So they're saying the families of fallen Afghani civilians (those killed by US/axis forces, well documented, try Wikileaks) are not worth considering then? May as well pull the whole fucking game.

  32. I foresee a Taliban mod by HertzaHaeon · · Score: 1

    EA are wrong to compromise artistic freedom because of complaints, especially since it's just a cosmetic change.

    But if the game is moddable (which seems like like a big maybe), a name change should be easy.

  33. Pandering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we stop pandering to the paranoid shut-ins? At least we now know EA's target demographic: morons

  34. Because a rose by any other name by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 2, Funny

    is sometimes a dandelion

    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  35. Headline Misleading by Beerdood · · Score: 1

    "EA Pulls Taliban From Medal of Honor Multiplayer" couldn't be more wrong. It's still the Taliban. Looks like they're still wearing turbans from the image and it's still set in Afghanistan. Or is there some other gun wielding, turban wearing "opposing force" in Afghanistan that I'm not aware of? Nice try EA, a simple name change fix for good publicity. But if you were truly sensitive and really cared military veterans' feelings then you probably wouldn't have made this game in the first palce.

    --
    Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
  36. Stupid by Is0m0rph · · Score: 1

    But the beta was horrible there's not going to be many people even seeing the change after the reviews come out.

  37. EA Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Terrorists Win

  38. How badly do you want to play the Taliban? by dave562 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've seen a lot of comments on here that are derogatory towards EA and the families of soliders who have voiced their opposition to EA's decision. I agree that EA made a bad call by white washing the reality of the conflict. One of the fundamental cornerstones of our society seems to be freedom of choice. As Americans, we want the ability to do whatever we feel like doing, no matter how insensitive or offensive to others it might be. As others have said many times before, freedom is not free. That leads me to my question... how badly do all of you people whining about not being able to play the Taliban, want to play the Taliban?

    Will you gather signatures and go on the record saying that you want to do it? Will you lobby and protest and make your voices heard? Are you so strong in your convictions that EA has made a bad decision that you will NOT buy the game in order to voice your dissatisfaction?

    If there is one thing I've learned about being American it is that those who are willing to make the biggest stink about something usually get their way. So how strong are your convictions? Are you going to do anything about it, or are you just going to whine on Slashdot?

    1. Re:How badly do you want to play the Taliban? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I will. I don't care what the name is - this is a freaking video game - and I am a believer in the first amendment. So, call them Taliban and I will chose them anyway. Why? Gameplay reasons that have nothing to do with the name, which is the only logical reason to choose a faction in a video game!

      To be more specific, I don't care if the faction is actually named "Taliban" or "Hamas" or "MEC" or "Terrorist" or whatever else. As long as they have RPGs, I really prefer those over the typical Javelin/Predator missile you tend to find on any US faction. Ballistic arcs are easier to target than wire guided things, and they usually have more ammo than the US counterpart. If you have any good aim, you're always better off playing with RPGs since they do the same damage with more ammo. Also, usually either the russian/chinese or terrorist faction gets 2-shot burst rifles, US gets stupid 3-shot burst M16. I always prefer 2-shot burst assault rifles.

      So yeah, sign me up. If the moniker for the middle eastern faction happens to be pink ponies, fine. Actually, that's even better. I'd love nothing more than my opponents telling their friends they got slaughtered by the pink ponies!

    2. Re:How badly do you want to play the Taliban? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you going to do anything about it, or are you just going to whine on Slashdot?

      i am going to get it via torrent and randomly give it away for free on dvd+r. that'll teach 'em.

  39. 100% Coverage ? by daveime · · Score: 1

    we are making this change for the men and women serving in the military and for the families of those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice

    I'm pretty sure this applies to every soldier/rebel/freedom fighter who ever served for their country or their personal beliefs ... including the Taliban, who probably also believe their "cause" is just, however misguided we believe it to be.

  40. You people are sad. by ExtremePhobia · · Score: 1

    I mean, how evil of EA to do this. Here they are being so offensive to YOU, violating your rights to a game not tarnished by this group or that group. I mean, really, the nerve! You know, the removal of this word from the game is so offensive, maybe YOU should exercise your right not to buy the game. Right?

    See, what happened is EA decided that to do something that could potentially hurt their profits to appease their sense of morality. They didn't violate your rights or actually offend you. No, they tried to take the high road.

    This group... Did they ask that the game not be released? No, they asked for one word not to be used ONLY in multiplayer. The Campaign is left alone. The story is the same. The game is the same.

    You? You just decided that you were going to be a righteous bastard. You decided that you would be "offended" because these people who were ACTUALLY offended were appeased. This game is made for people like you who want to PRETEND that you are the kind of person that these people are related to.

    MAYBE it's arguable whether this word hurt anyone and whether removing it mattered. One thing is certain though, there is never anything wrong with respecting the wishes of these people. There will come a day when somebody uses a word you don't particularly like around/at your wife/daughter. Somehow I doubt you'll swallow your words at that point.

  41. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even the soldiers that were interviewed by EA had absolutely no problem with having Taliban in the multiplayer.

  42. Re:This type of censoring is a danger to human rig by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

    How does piracy help you play as the Taliban? Or do anything else, for that matter, apart from help companies erode our rights via sympathetic courts?

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  43. Its a no brainer business decision by llZENll · · Score: 1

    option 1: keep the name, potentially start a giant movement against your company where parents of your main demographic will no longer shell out money for your games and boycott you for a while, perhaps losing you millions.

    option 2: change the name and be a spineless shell of a company, where anyone recognizing this will give 2 shits about it and still buy your games anyway.

    if it were a small company with only this product or a few and where production and art values were stronger they would easily keep the name, it would actually be a good bit of fortune i think. but with EA having 1000's of games on every platform and IP in the world, it could effect many of their games sales from the potential fallout across the board. its the right move for them, no matter what you think.

  44. It should be offensive, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having a game based on a recent or current war should be offensive because war is a very serious matter. It should be. But we've been treating war like a game since Vietnam so making a real game out of it isn't anywhere near as offensive as the war itself.

  45. Re:High and mighty wankery by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

    And when you have a loved one in the field, coming under fire almost every day, you will have earned the right to make this comment.

    That must be tough and all but tell me again why this means we can't have a game where you play as the Taliban?

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  46. Actually, let's remove everyone by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    My grandfather died in WW2, could you please remove the Germans from all your future WW2 games as well? The Japanese, too.

    Both my grandfathers fought in WW2. One of them was crippled, and actually the other who was a decorated officer (ok, ok, only Iron Cross second class) had the most horror stories and never really ticked right ever after. So can we please remove the Americans, Brits and especially the fucking Russians from games too? (And I don't say "fucking" as just an expletive. Those guys raped even their own female soldiers when they liberated female POW camps.) It seems insensitive that people can buy games where they can play folks who shot at both my grandfathers and some who literally raped half of Europe.

    The French can stay, though. Those never harmed anyone ;)

    (Not entirely serious post. Just illustrating that there are more countries in the world than the USA, and the EU _is_ a major market for computer games. If we're going remove everything that could offend someone from the USA, then we're going to start the same over here, and there won't be much left which you _can_ put in a game.)

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  47. It makes sense if you want to maintain realism by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    It makes sense if you want to maintain game realism.

    If they were to implement the Taliban accurately, nobody on the Taliban team would have more kills per death (unless they implemented bomb belts). They'd all shoot Muslim Typewriters*, and not be able to place two shots within 10 yards of each other. This would quickly result in people not playing the Taliban side (or playing it only for the game nerfing effect and to ruin gameplay for others), effectively making the game suck.

    It's better than making the Taliban balance accurate to real life and catching all the flack for "Muslim hatred" or some such bullshit.

    * "muslim typewriter" - an AK or derived gun used by hajjis which is phyiscally unable of accurate repeat shot placement. subsequent shots pull sharply to the left (the same direction of the Arabic writing system).

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  48. Party time! Excellent! by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

    I will start the fire up to start the book burning. NOT!!!

    Good one, Garth!

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  49. No Taliban = no purchase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was going to buy your game but now I will pass. I want what little realism is in a game. The references to real groups empowers me to yell, "Die you Taliban" as I mow down the Taliban. Now, I can simply play more Team Fortress 2 and save my money for a more realistic game.

  50. Will not play now by random_guy666 · · Score: 1

    For a while, I thought EA was going to stand up for their rights to include whatever they wanted in their games, but now I realize they are just as idiotic as the rest of the people in this country. Everyone is too easily offended, and everyone else is afraid of offending someone because they are afraid of being sued because every time someone offends someone else, someone gets sued, and for some reason, our legal system allows these people to win, despite all the freedoms we are (supposedly) allowed by the Constitution. It's the same way with stupidity. All I'm going to say here is McDonald's and coffee. "Swear words" are only "bad" because someone at some point in time decided they did not like a word. They are fucking words. Get over it and use them like they are just another word. I was interested in playing this game. Now I will not even so much as rent it from Gamefly. If anyone I know gets it, I will not play it. We need to start sticking up for our rights and people need to learn to deal with differences in opinion.

  51. So Don't Buy It by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, uh, hey...

    If you don't like this decision, protest the same way the anti-Taliban crew did: by refusing to buy the game.

    Of course, it's doubtful anyone will actually care so much about this as not to buy it. Two things about gamers - gamers love to whine and blow things out of proportion, and gamers always cave because they would rather accept what they are being told to accept than not have the game.

    Look at WoW players. Every single day, it's whine whine whine, but it's never quit, quit, quit. This is no different.

    Trust me. If you want to protest this decision, do it the same way the PC censorship crowd did - with your wallet - and let EA know why you aren't buying. Obviously, they listen to that sort of feedback.

    --
    The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
  52. You know, that's one thing I'll never get by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    You know, one thing I never get is such references to "wanting to pretend to be terrorists who hate your country." Why is that even worth mentioning anyway?

    For most of the rest of the world, we're already used to the idea that someone somewhere hates our countries and that in the name of fun someone has to play that side too. Either because you wouldn't get much of a multiplayer if everyone is on the same team, or because that's the only single-player campaign there is. E.g., there never was any way to play either Wolfenstein game in Germany without basically pretending to be on the side of some guys who were really, really pissed off at Germany. And for good reason too. (Granted, they pussified it by changing the symbols and everything to some weird other war than WW2, but you're still fighting Germans and everyone knew what it's really about.)

    Or I don't think many people would go out of the way to apologize to Russians that such games as No One Lives Forever featured them as the bad guys, and it was only possible to play as someone who basically hates the USSR.

    Most of us came to terms with the idea that someone somewhere hates or hated our respective country. Heck, down here in the old world we have about 5000 years of recorded history of everyone hating everyone else. We hated the Romans, the Romans hated us, then we were kinda friends with Rome and hated someone else, and they hated us in return, and so on. And the Mesopotamians were bashing each other's head in with bronze maces long before that, while both we and the ancestors of the Romans (and even Greeks) were running around in fur loincloths. And before even written history, we have finds like Ötzi who was killed in combat (presumably by someone who didn't like him or his tribe much), or prehistoric caves in France and Spain of stick figures shooting arrows at each other and bashing each other's heads in with clubs. (Again, I'm guessing it meant those tribes weren't particularly fond of each other.)

    Why is the reality that someone out there doesn't like you something that the USA needs to frown upon?

    And besides, again, it's a game. What's the difference between that and, dunno, playing an Orc attacking the Humans, or a Zerg doing the same, or really whatever? It's not like someone really wants to feel like he's really hating the USA or humanity, it's just playing an available role.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:You know, that's one thing I'll never get by somersault · · Score: 1

      Yeah I was mostly just trying to wind people up since they're getting so angry about it being removed. I was just wondering why it's so important that it says "Taliban" rather than them just being generic terrorists. I do think that it is a little bit harsh on the families that are involved in this war, though it wouldn't stop me playing the game if I actually played the MoH series.

      And besides, again, it's a game. What's the difference between that and, dunno, playing an Orc attacking the Humans, or a Zerg doing the same, or really whatever?

      Exactly. What difference does it make whether it says Taliban or not? If EA has decided to change it, it makes no difference.

      Having said that, I think the way that they did it in Modern Warfare 2 is best. Just ask you on first run if you would like to disable the "offensive" parts of the game and leave it down to customer discretion.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:You know, that's one thing I'll never get by zeroshade · · Score: 1

      The difference is the idea that EA had to change this facet of a game to appease people who weren't going to buy the game anyways. It means that we can expect game developers, in this case at least EA, to not push the envelope. That they will avoid topics that may possibly be perceived as "offensive" whether they be tangential to the game (like them being named Taliban) or integral to a plot for a game. If people are willing to buy your game, why should you have to censor yourself or change some facet, large or small, of your game to prevent 'offending' anyone? Put it out as is and if enough people buy it, great. Why change the meaning of the game for some of your audience because a number of people, most of which won't ever play your game anyways, are 'offended' by it.

      It's just damn stupid and bad for games if this behavior becomes common place.

    3. Re:You know, that's one thing I'll never get by lgw · · Score: 1

      No ond had to change anything: EAs accountants simply did some math. EA wants only to make money. No scientific instument could possibly measure the tinyness of the amount that EA cares about "puching the envelope" or whether their games or fun, or anything else, except as it affects making money.

      Want an interesting new game with actual creativiey behind it? Buy from not-EA. This is the least annoyting way EA has "harmed" the industry I've yet seen. Saying "EA did somthing stupid and bad for games" is truly redundant.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:You know, that's one thing I'll never get by somersault · · Score: 1

      I don't get all the hate directed at EA to be honest. I dislike them pushing out sports sim after sports sim as much as the next guy, but that's probably because I don't play sports sims. I like the Need For Speed series a lot since I got into it (NFS: Shift is especially good fun if you like track racing, and has "creative" features like the camera shaking, screen losing colour, heart pounding/breathing noises when you crash etc).

      They released Mirror's Edge which is still a pretty unique game even today, there have been few other games to do with free running. Definitely looking forward to Mirror's Edge 2, and it seems like they are taking their time to make it good rather than just rushing out a sequel, which they could have done pretty easily just by making some new levels.

      What about Brutal Legend? Deathspank? :D IMO they do release a lot of good games. There are plenty of crap games around too of course - nobody's forcing you to buy them though!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:You know, that's one thing I'll never get by lgw · · Score: 1

      NFS: Shift had nothing at all to do with the NFS title, though. It was just another track game, nothing really new or interesting. EA turns a series about driving crazy into a game that starts with legal warnings, makes you lose for cutting corners, and ends if you drive backward down the track for 5 seconds. They have a long history of finding game studios that made somthing interesting, buying them out, and cranking out more games in the series with all of the "interesting" removed (and usually all of the original designers/developers gone). So many good game studios ended with the first game EA published.

      Also, WTF was with NFS: Shift? Why the heck would you make a track game that forces me to drive crappy beaters instead of exotics? Heck, I could buy (one of) that selection of cars in real life, and drive them as safely as that stupid game fored me to. Who decides when putting the Nissan GTR into a game to put the 90's sedan, not the modern rocket? Slow cars driven carefully = a game designed by lawyers.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:You know, that's one thing I'll never get by somersault · · Score: 1

      Ah I didn't realise it was just bought in, I thought they just had two teams working on the games, some on the "racery" ones and the rest on the cops'n'robbers style stuff. I enjoy Shift a lot more than I did Pro-Street anyway so it seems they're heading in the right direction. I also enjoyed Carbon a lot.

      I like the career mode in these types of game where you can buy a beater and either save up for a better car, or upgrade your little car to make it more competitive in higher classes of races. First game I played like that was Gran Turismo and I had months of fun tinkering away, learning to race well and collecting vehicles.

      I'm pretty sure NFS: Shift has a quick race mode where you could race the exotics immediately if you were so inclined? Or if you're in the single player you get lots of invitational events where you can race the exotics (maybe I just got so many invitations because I was anal about getting 3 stars on each of the first tier of races). Trying to race the Veyron without stability control and/or traction control is INSANE (I haven't bothered to hook up my steering wheel with Shift yet, don't have anywhere to mount it these days)!

      I like that you can buy those cars in real life, I think that's the point. It was a lot of fun driving my dad's car in Gran Turismo (admittedly he had an Evo VI, so not exactly a beater, but it was still an awesome thing to be able to do in a game). And a lot of the real life drifting scene is comprised of old Japanese cars that have been modded to hell, and if you want to do that in this game, you can, so it's just a realistic element.

      I'm sure I saw the modern GT-R in Shift too, but the earlier Skylines are still good cars. The R33 and R34 Skylines especially have had some crazy tuned versions - I remember them well from Gran Turismo for having lots of racing models in the 600bhp range, and you see them in tuner magazines, etc. I do much prefer games which have a bit of history and "down to earth"ness rather than just being full of Ferraris and F1 cars for example. I've had fun with stuff like Ferrari Challenge and Porsche Challenge, but the variety in Gran Turismo has always been a big draw for me. I had a collection of hundreds of cars in Gran Turismo 2, and I had many different favourites depending on what kind of course I was racing on..

      --
      which is totally what she said
  53. Please, Please, Pretty PLEASE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let them be replaced with circus clowns.

  54. You do realize those aren't the ones who complain? by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Actually, I have a tough time imagining that it's the soldiers who got offended by the thought of someone being able to play the Taliban. In fact, the posts I've seen from self-identified members of the armed forces in this thread, not a single one was along the lines of "whew, thank goodness they removed those!"

    Not entirely surprising as someone who is actually shot at in real life, has bigger concerns than some pixelated other soldier being shot at in a video game. If you're the kind who'll actually lose his mental shit over a pimple-faced kid playing Taliban for lulz, you'll be a major liability (and probably a casualty) when you meet real Taliban who want you dead for real. Seriously, I can't imagine anyone trained to keep their wits about in a real combat situation, faced with real people who want him/her dead, and real deadly bullets, getting a major trauma over a few kids playing a video game.

    The real minority complaining about this kind of shit are some puritans who probably only saw a weapon on TV, and who are all about protecting someone _else's_ sensibilities. You know, the "it's not about me, but OMG it might offend that other guy over there" kind. Even if that guy over there doesn't actually feel any need to be protected by such a knight in shiny armour.

    So, really, quit doing that. If you yourself have something to complain about, complain, and if the army has anything to complain about, let the army do it. But inventing some other minority to protect is kinda getting silly.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  55. arrogance by spleen_blender · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "earned the right to be listened to"

    Excuse me? Fuck you, sir. I'm a retired Marine but I'm so goddamn sick of people hoisting up military service as if it makes you a super-citizen or gives you any superior insight.

    They treat you with utter respect, these flag waving suit wearing pricks, until it comes down to them having to keep their word on medical care and other promised benefits.

    1. Re:arrogance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, I'm too busy slapping SUPPORT THE TROOPS magnets all over my Lexus SUV to care about your opinion.

  56. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So let me get this straight.

    Its perfectly ok to plays as a US soldier killing taliban, thats perfectly acceptable. But its not ok for taliban to kill american solidiers right? So in america were ok with killing them but they cant kill us? Its weak minded, pussified political correctness like this that ruins a lot of things. People want free speech, they want the freedom to chose, they want all these freedoms and rights but only as long as they are ones that they think are personally ok for other people. Thats horseshit.

    If you can play multiplayer as americans then you should be ok with playing as taliban. Its short sighted, its ignorant and its incredibly dumb to to think otherwise.

    Either its all ok or none of its ok.

  57. Re:You do realize those aren't the ones who compla by Americano · · Score: 1

    The real minority complaining about this kind of shit are some puritans who probably only saw a weapon on TV, and who are all about protecting someone _else's_ sensibilities. You know, the "it's not about me, but OMG it might offend that other guy over there" kind. Even if that guy over there doesn't actually feel any need to be protected by such a knight in shiny armour.

    The minority complaining to EA is doing exactly what you suggest. They are families of servicemen and women who have lost family members in this conflict. EA has specifically said that that feedback, and the wish to be sensitive to those people, is why they're changing the name.

    It's not inventing a minority, it's pointing out that if you're claiming that this is some "freedom" issue, and that your freedoms are being trampled by this group of "whiners," the same thing could be said about any minority who we take pains not to offend or mock.

  58. Free speech. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

    The references to Taliban should have been kept in. There is no question there.

    But let's face facts here... EA was banking on controversy to move the game, this wasn't some attempt to accurately depict current events. All that has happened is that management and marketing decided that the potential backlash would result in boycotts if not outright bannings, which would be harmful to sales.

    And, while we're talking about free speech, people seem to forget that it goes both ways. EA is free to feature the Taliban. However, those offended, for one reason or another, are just as free to protest, to publicly express their displeasure in the form of demonstrations or boycotts. They don't cross the line when they protest, they cross the line when they start demanding that the game be banned because then they're infringing on the rights of others. Even if it's the right to play yet another derivative first-person shooter.

    Interestingly, this is one of the few situations where citizens do have clear power over corporations.

    1. Re:Free speech. by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      While I'm with you on considering the First Amendment sacrosanct and probably our most important right, you're reading too much into it.

      All it says is the government won't infringe upon that right. Here, some people bitched, whined, and moaned about it, saying it should be banned. However, EA voluntarily removed the Taliban from the game.

      The courts of the United States will not infringe on your right to free speech except in very limited circumstances. The Court of Public Opinion, however, is and should remain free to not only ask that your game be banned, but to ask anything of you - that's their freedom, guaranteed. Another part of the First Amendment says that one is free to ask the government to infringe upon the rights of others. Whether the Gov't does it or not is a different can of worms.

      You are absolutely correct that the freedom goes both ways here. However, EA is a corporation, a person of legal fiction. They are not guaranteed rights by our Constitution. As of right now, the only things that gives them personhood are court opinions and statutes. As such, some would argue that corporations are not entitled to the right to free speech.

  59. Even then, nobody's mocking them by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    1. Except even then, the comparison to other minorities is still bogus. Other minorities are protected against discriminating or, as you call it mocking, to their face, but don't get to forbid you from playing something that might offend them. E.g., they don't get to tell the hilbillies reenacting Civil War fights that nobody should play the CSA troops because, you know, the CSA was all for slavery and offensive to blacks. E.g., they don't get to tell kids to stop playing cowboys and indians because it's insensitive to the natives.

    So in effect even if you want to treat them as a real minority, it's still asking a bit more than any real minority actually does.

    Yes, I'm all for extending the same courtesy as I extend to any other minorities. I definitely would be against a serviceman/servicewoman being denied service somewhere, and I'll be the first to frown at someone who calls him/her insulting names or stereotypes. But that's where it frigging stops. When they start dictating what units can be in my games so they're not insulted, I'll also be the first to tell them to take a hike. That's already way beyond non-discrimination, it's already that "minority" trying to elect itself the boss of someone else.

    2. Well, then those families should have asked the guy/gal actually down there what he/she thinks, before whining at EA.

    Because all I wrote before is based on my experience of actually being in the army. (Granted, thankfully never in actual combat.) We were trained all the time to deal with a real guy trying to really kill us. And he won't stop if you just go, "OMG, I'm so offended that you chose the side who hates me, I'm gonna sit in that corner and pout." You have to kill that motherfucker before he kills you and your mates. (Or more like pin him down until someone or something else can kill him.)

    Even as simulations go, we didn't have to face some pixelated shape on a screen, but charge up a hill against real guys with real assault rifles and support weapons, (although thankfully not with live ammo.) How's that for realism? And you couldn't go "well, I'm offended that those guys from the other platoon are playing the side that hates us", because, well, none of us fancied explaining that to an officer, much less to a court martial.

    I'd have been actually quite happy if that only happened on a computer screen. Heck, it would have saved me the bother of marching with all the gear and sprinting up a hill.

    So if any family member of mine would be offended that someone else would play as the guy trying to kill me, well, they'd damn well better ask me about it. I'd be happy to tell them what I think of _that_ virtual threat.

    3. Even more importantly, it still doesn't work. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Some renamed Taliban are still trying to shoot at the electronic effigy of those troops? So the difference is... what?

    It would seem to me that the really offensive part in a war is that those guys are really trying to get you dead. Down in the ground with dirt on your head. That they're called Taliban or Red Army or "other side", WTH difference does it make?

    Ditto for those families. Someone is still trying to shoot those guys in the game. You'd think that would be the main worry, not the exact name that they have in the game.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  60. Voluntary Censorship by loimprevisto · · Score: 1

    Suppressing? If a company decides that (for example) telling dead baby jokes will offend and alienate its customers, and they therefore decide not to do so, were the jokes 'suppressed'?

    How are the principles of civic liberties affected because a private group of people (EA Executives, board members, and game designers) decide not to pick a fight with a vocal minority?

    --
    Much Madness is divinest Sense --
    To a discerning Eye --
    Much Sense -- the starkest Madness
    1. Re:Voluntary Censorship by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      There is an implied notion of freedom and courage conveyed by the writer of the constitution. Diluting your artistic vision to avoid a fight with a vocal minority is a lack of courage and a loss of freedom for their artists

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
  61. MEH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what a waste of a story, we all knew it was coming. And how, exactly, is having an accurate portrait of a current war (as accurate as a game can be I guess) demeaning or damaging to the families. Are they playing this game? REALLY? Your family member died in an unjust war of aggression, and you are going to play an online shooter taking place in that exact war? I doubt that. So what, playing as the taliban in name will hurt you? Exactly how? It's a damned game and people need to grow up and take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming them on stuff like games. Removing the name is in itself an act of disrespect for the people who are fighting in that war. What, it's ok to send your son Jimmy off to die in afghanistan, but it's not ok for his cousin Mike to play a video game based on that conflict?

    If you want to respect the families, stop the damned war, not the video game.

    Oh, but I forgot, all FPS are assassin trainers, and MoH is obviously a tool to be used by the taliban (or was it Al Queda?) to recruit blond haired, pimple faced jihadists.

  62. "Opposing Force"? That's a stupid name by microbee · · Score: 1

    How about "The force who shall not be named"?

  63. New combat tactic from Taliban by microbee · · Score: 1

    In related news, it is reported that Taliban soldiers have deployed a new combat tactic. Taliban soldiers now will simply shout "Talibannnn!!!" while charging, which sometimes brings so much stress to the coalitions that coalition soldiers would simply collapse.

  64. This Changes Everything! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, holy shit! EA is a true, flag-waving, patriotic company and because of this, I'm gonna go out and buy fifty copies of the game, including one for the Baby Jesus! Hell, I'll even let EA come over and fuck my sister!

  65. About the most disrespectful thing I've seen... by SETIGuy · · Score: 1

    this franchise will never willfully disrespect, intentionally or otherwise, your memory and service.

    Yeah and we'll do that by giving in to the people who turned your memory into a political football and are using your death to serve their own purposes. Because we're sure you don't want anyone to know why you died or who you were fighting. I'm sure the most important thing on your mind as you died was "I hope nobody ever feels that freedom includes the freedom to pretend to be the Taliban while playing a game." Now we'll run right out and tell those kids playing war in the street that they can't pretend to be Taliban or Iraqi Republican Guard. How disrespectful of them.

  66. Breaking news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    EA has announced that the Taliban forces will be renamed to "civilians" and have no weapons, US forces will be renamed to Jeremy Morlock and Sgt Gibbs.
    EA was quick to add that the game will now be called Medal of Dishonor. PETA has vowed to protest this game until the puppy throwing portion of it is removed.

  67. Political rant by ProteusQ · · Score: 0, Troll

    "This is a voice that has earned the right to be listened to."

    The military earns this right by its members being killed or maimed to protect their country, while the academic left earns this right by publishing papers cloaked in double-talk, rousing their students to protest some issue that they've helped to blow out of proportion, and yelling at anyone who dares to disagree with their views, their opportunity for tenure, or their parking space privileges.

    1. Re:Political rant by kbolino · · Score: 1

      And what of the “conservative” talking heads who gleefully champion the wars that get so many soldiers killed, yet have never served a day themselves? Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori sounds quite noble if you never have to look at the results.

    2. Re:Political rant by ProteusQ · · Score: 1

      If there is a coming revolution, those buzzards need to be up against the wall, too.

  68. Hello denial, from the alarmist propaganda machine by Francofille · · Score: 1
    Funny that it's a simple language label "Taliban" that these people use alarmist language and propaganda to fight. The "free speech is great when I agree with it" point of view is so convenient.

    A small group of drama queens who get offended when people disagree with them makes a big deal and starts a reputation smearing campaign. For the corporations it becomes about marketing and public image.

    Having won their battle, the drama queens feel validated and entitled to whine louder and more often. The politicians happily support them, as their cries about meaningless crap provide an ideal smoke screen for the violence and insanity that is politics.
    • Death Panels (the government will kill all your loved ones)
    • Death Tax (we're all hard working American Farmers whose children deserve to continue to till the same soil as us!)
    • Activist Judges (if they disagree with me, they're obviously radical domestic terrorists abusing their power!)
    • Support Our Troops (if you are against war then you obviously hate my American son and want people from other countries to murder him before he can keep their country safe by killing their civilians; plus if you disagree with me then you are the enemy)
    • Pro-Life (anyone who disagrees with me is pro-death for all babies! I'm also pro-Afghan and Iraqi fetuses, but not their parents.)

    Once they've managed to take that inch, the mile inevitably follows.

  69. I want to be able to play the winning side by johanw · · Score: 1

    And that is in this war not the US occupation force. Makes just as little sense as a Vietnam game where you can't play the Vietcong side, what's the fun in a game you can't win?

  70. Patch Patch Patch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First, let me echo that I agree that it is disgusting that *anybody* can interfere with what EA puts in their game.

    If some general said the game won't be sold unless Taliban is removed; ok - do that. Get the game to sell in as many places as possible.

    Then 1 week after launch, release a patch which makes them Taliban again.

    Looks like a win-win to this simpleton..

  71. Re:Well that's stupid. (no kidding) by ukemike · · Score: 1

    I like how this is almost exactly what Blizzard did early on in WOW's development. IIRC, As an anti-poopsocking measure, they would start giving you XP penalties as time went on; you'd start out earning 100% XP, but then if you played for long enough you would slowly get penalties until you were only earning 50% XP. You had to log off and wait a couple of hours to get back to earning 100% XP.

    Was that in English? poopsocking? sounds like a registerable sex offense. XP penalties, that's what you pay when you buy and PC and then install linux in place of windows? Let's see if I can use IIRC in a sentence... I get IIRC'd when people use absurd jargon.

    I think /. just got much nerdier.

    --
    -- QED
  72. Re:Hello denial, from the alarmist propaganda mach by gregrah · · Score: 1

    Once they've managed to take that inch, the mile inevitably follows.

    It's a shame that you chose to wrap up your otherwise flawless argument with a direct restatement of the slippery slope logical fallacy.

  73. EPIC FAIL by Larryish · · Score: 1

    Would not buy from again. F---------

  74. On alcohol and sex as a subset of morale-boosting by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    General Joseph *Hooker* (Union Army) was evidently one of many to recognize the morale boost? makes sense.

    BTW:
    Sun-Tzu's The Art Of War doesn't seem to directly refer to this.

    http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html (This page, which posts the 1910 Giles translation, uses the word 'spirit' where 'morale' might fit)
    'Alcohol', 'drink', 'women', 'prostitute', and other such terms are not-found.

    "A clever general, therefore, avoids an army when its spirit is keen, but attacks it when it is sluggish and inclined to return. This is the art of studying moods." might indirectly refer to this as a potential distraction, but the context more directly refers to general energy level

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  75. Of course! Change the name! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why didn't they call the other team "Afghan Sugar" or "High Fructose Afghan Syrup"?

  76. Lets get real by VirtualJWN · · Score: 1

    First of all, the "Tal-e-ban" are a bunch of cowards. The game should reflect this, with little pink jumpsuits with pictures of Allah on them. Like cheap James Bond movie villian's minions. Second, in the "real world" why don't we NUKE the countries that support the little fluffballs and their terrorism. OR BETTER STILL QUIT prosecuting American soldiers for wasting those little psycho buttheads in the first place. Like they say in Texas, "some people need killin". Can't think of a better recipient than woman abusing, illiterate, RPG toting punks that thinks he will get 57 virgins when he is "killed for Allah". From their perspective (3d world country, eating rats, probably some incentive there) so let our Military help them along. The Ayatollah Obama seems to be a sympathizer and not helping anyone but his Obama 2012 reelection tour. In the game anyway, tactical NUKE Mecca and Medina then pick the next targets at will. And make sure if there ARE Taliban in the game they wear pink jumpsuits and that you can hurl pigs at them, as well as heavy artillery. Make this as humiliating and degrading to the punk Muslim Militants as you can.

    --
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
  77. Amerika the land of hello kitty and diet beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't remember people bitching like little cry babies back when 9-11 happened.
    I don't recall an outcry from people to remove the terrorists in Counter Strike games.
    Or the nazis from wolfenstien.
    Or the black zombies in resident evil 5.

    Amerika has become the land of hello kitty and diet beer.