Slashdot Mirror
College Student Finds GPS On Car, FBI Retrieves It
mngdih writes with this excerpt from Wired:
"A California student got a visit from the FBI this week after he found a secret GPS tracking device on his car, and a friend posted photos of it online. The post prompted wide speculation about whether the device was real, whether the young Arab-American was being targeted in a terrorism investigation and what the authorities would do. It took just 48 hours to find out: The device was real, the student was being secretly tracked and the FBI wanted their expensive device back ... His discovery comes in the wake of a recent ruling by the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals saying it's legal for law enforcement to secretly place a tracking device on a suspect's car without getting a warrant, even if the car is parked in a private driveway. ... 'We have all the information we needed,' they told him. 'You don't need to call your lawyer. Don't worry, you're boring.'"
How about a bit of "finders keepers" and disassemble and report of the technology. Followed up by a "Does it Blend" episode !
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
When the FBI tells you that you are boring...just WOW!
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Land of the free*
* Some conditions apply. See in-country for details. Void where prohibited. No cash value. Offer expires September 11, 2001.
they should bug the ground zero mosque site as well and do a wiring job so it can burn down on command
Where the hell is SCOTUS on a ruling when you really need them?
So now it's ok to be tracked with this sort of device simply because the target is boring? While I can appreciate the increased efforts to deal with terrorism, I can't say I agree with the methods. He should have just destroyed it after posting about it. Since he didn't know what it was, how could he be held legally responsible for destroying the device?
When the FBI tells you "Not to worry" and "Don't call your lawyer", do you want to guess who the very next person you should call is?
Hint: It's not your mom.
What a wasted opportunity to attach it to a bus.
I readed about it on reddit about 1 week ago.. that's were the student itself posted the pictures... all the communinty helped and discovered that it was from the FBI... and now i read this... It seems the guy decided to talk to the press,
There will be no retribution, of course. When has government ever given retribution for their own crimes? This isn't as horrible as the many cases of false imprisonment (or worse) with little to no retribution, but the concept is the same. If you can't understand why, all you have to do is imagine the tracking device being planted by a private citizen, one who holds no more or less power than yourself. Now what makes you think government should be held to a different standard?
Apparently it is powered by batteries, but I always wondered if you could power one by attaching a peltier module to the exhaust...
If you just find one of these and don't realize that it belongs to the FBI, and think "doesn't belong" and destory it (or just toss it in a dumpster), are you liable to pay for it when the FBI comes to get it back?
On the one hand,
if you are up to no good, and you're smart, being boring is the way to go.
On the other hand,
he should have put it up for sale on eBay.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Not saying it's right, but "Afifi said he often travels for business and has two teenage brothers in Egypt whom he supports financially." Frequent traveling along with sending (presumably) large amounts of cash to the middle-east has to raise some red flags.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
Now that we have pictures we can identify future devices.
When you find one, wander over to a freeway gas station and replant it on an interstate truck. At least make them work to recover it.
...hidden GPS device tracks you!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
For everyone out there who doesn't want their liberties trampled on, someone want to comment on the effectiveness of GPS jammers? Of course, the most practical and friendly would be short-range ones that don't bother other people.
It would be really interesting to see what would have happened had he disposed of it in a lake before the FBI showed up. There's nothing in the photo to indicate that it belongs to the government; it could have been placed by a private detective. As far as I'm concerned, if you attach something to my car without my permission, it's mine.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
what's that? u want it back? sorry Mr FBI. I already disassembled it and destroyed it. what? u want to charge me with destruction of federal property? was there a tag on it that said it belonged to the FBI? it was in my car, it's my property. suck it!
...FBI tracks ... oh, wait a second.
But if the private driveway is located in Texas, couldn't the car owner just shoot the FBI agent that installs the device?
Your TomTom is a GPS receiver not a GPS tracker.
A GPS receiver knows where the GPS receiver is but doesn't have a mechanism to send that information to a remote location.
It doesn't do the FBI any good.
A GPS tracker contains a GPS receiver but also some communication method (cellular, sat, other wireless technology) to periodically or continually send location information to a remote location.
I think if I found someone crawling under my car in my unfenced, ungated driveway, placing some device on my car, I'd be cueing up the track of a shotgun being pumped on my MP3 player, then playing it real loud for the perp under my car.
OK, so when are you leaving?
Fits the profile of someone you want to keep an eye on pretty well, actually.
Best Slashdot Co
If you look further in the article, you can reconstruct a hypothetical scenario which, from the FBI's point of view, looks completely normal:
It's of course a bit scary to have people tracking you when you didn't do anything wrong; and it sounds like there was some annoying bullying (TFA: "[The FBI agent] told Afifi, “We’re going to make this much more difficult for you if you don’t cooperate.”) But it sounds like there's an explanation of how this could have happened by-the-book, and the FBI is doing their job.
TCP: Why the Internet is full of SYN.
This guy missed a golden opportunity to mess with the FBI. Like maybe taking the thing up in a plane and throwing it out the window. Or tie it to a giant helium balloon.
Wouldn't it be great if we could find a Supreme Court Justice's car to attach it to!
While they did ultimately tell him that they wanted it back, what if he had thrown it out before then? Could they have held him responsible for the loss of their property when they never informed him in the first place that he was not supposed to discard it?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
So, is it okay for a "civvie" (ordinary citizen) to place a tracking device on a car belonging to The Authorities? You know, "watching the watchers"....
Won't leave many people in. After all, you're ALL descended from illegals.
it might have been smarter to call the bomb squad when you find an unexpected device attached to your car than to touch it or remove it yourself.
Should have asked for proof of ownership and a receipt for handing it over.
that americans were big on keeping an eye on gov, not the other way around. way to make the tinfoil hat crowd look sane
I've never learned to drive. I have no official government-issued ID other than my passport (which I keep in an RFID-blocking wallet), and I obviously don't have a car that they can plant tracking devices on without notifying me. I host my email and web service with my own hardware on my own property (basically, I'm my own ISP), so they can't obtain my email without notifying me... and even there, I use some cryptography.
How long do you think I've got before they come after me?
Nah, if you're going to bug anything bug the Ground Zero strip club. (Full video, of course).
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Someone doing that in my neck of the woods would be greeted by a shotgun-toting homeowner and held for trespassing until the Sheriff showed up.
The Fourth Amendment reads:
``The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.''
If there's no warrant or probable cause or justifiable reason to be there, they had better stay off my property.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I mean, let's say he never discovered the device and had simply sold the car to somebody else as a used vehicle before the FBI came to retrieve it? And let's say that the owner of the new vehicle discovers it, presumes that the device was installed by the previous owner and presses charges for invasion of privacy....
Anybody wanna guess how *THAT* would have played out?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Six months ago, a former roommate of his was visited by FBI agents who said they wanted to speak with Afifi. Afifi contacted one agent and was told the agency received an anonymous tip from someone saying he might be a threat to national security. Afifi told the agent he was willing to answer questions if his lawyer approved. But after Afifi's lawyer contacted the agency, he never heard from the feds again until he found their tracking device.
Should have popped it in a microwave for a couple of seconds.
The TomTom "Live" devices have a sim card & can connect to the cellular network....so it really depends on the model! It can also be used to track your Friends if you purchase the "Live services"
Find out the name and address of the local SAC and put it on his car instead. Or, even better, put it on his wife or daughter's car.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
(1) When a cop investigating you acts friendly toward you, don't assume that means he's your friend.
(2) [corollary] When a cop who's been investigating you tells you that you don't need to talk to your lawyer, *talk to your lawyer*.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
That's what they want you to believe.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
That may be true.
Which is why I wrap my TomTom in a Faraday cage.
The good news is the location signals can't get out. The bad news is the GPS signals can't get in significantly reducing the effectiveness.
to find another nearby car (e.g. the one owned by the morbidly obese redneck neighbor with the idiotic bumper stickers) and affix the device there before going on one's merry way, they probably deserve to get caught.
Thank god for our right-wing supreme court! They'll keep us safe from ourselves!
To be fair, your possessions are being neither searched nor seized.
While they may be able to put a tracking device on your car without your permission, it'd be another thing to trespass without a warrant. (And as you point out, not particularly safe in many areas of the country.)
I thought all this was supposed to end when Obama became President? Pete Townshend said it best: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
That phone was lost. The owner did not intend to transfer ownership.
This device was placed with the knowledge and consent of the owner at that time. Do you have to make an attempt to return a gift?
If I place something in your car, not accidentally leaving it behind or mistakenly leaving the wrong item, why wouldn't you be the owner? Sure, it might not be worth fighting about if I really badly want it back and you're not rich/motivated enough to fight, but assuming you went through with it to the point of getting a jury, then it's probably going to remain yours.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I have been wondering about this since the first time we heard that they could do this without a warrant. If someone comes onto your property and I assume they aren't going to wear clothes with big yellow "FBI" letters written on them, in some states with really strong castle doctrine (such as Texas) you are completely within the law to shoot first and ask questions later. As far as you were concerned they could have been planting a car bomb. I am curious exactly what would happen then.
Isn't that why one of the reason law enforcement always has to identify themselves when entering your property? So if you shoot at them then, you knowingly fired at the police.
Wire it up to someone else's battery, and now you're committing theft of services. It's one thing to bug someone's car, but to have them pay to operate it? I doubt any of the statues or rulings that say warrants aren't necessary, have legalized that.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
...the Bill of Rights is not recognized as part of the Constitution in America, but it IS recognized as such in Canada. Now we know what the Founding Fathers actually intended, eh?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
This thing looks like "futuristic" technologies from the a 1980s movie: picture.
And the FCC ID is the same as the one in a mobile credit card terminal)...
I guess it's comforting to see that, in this instance, the government isn't decades ahead of the rest of us...
In Finland they would shoot you if you are unlucky or arrest you, take your shotgun away and charge you with violent resist, murder one attempt plus some minor things if you are lucky. It's not allowed here to defend your property. Sometimes I hate this socialist country.
You don't know what you don't know.
How about practitioners of all Abrahamic religions in general?
And they manage to place such a device into my vehicle on my property w/o looking at things how?
No warrant or invitation == trespassing == you can talk it over w/ the Sheriff.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I would have FedEx'ed it to the first address on the ACLU's web site with a brief note telling them where I found it the name of the garage and to please bail me out of jail before I even went home.
The device was placed without his knowledge. So, unless:
lax gun control laws would not have helped, here.
War Measures Act
there are a few hundred people in Guantanamo bay that would argue its much more painful than just "OUCH" if the FBI finds you intriguing.
Good people go to bed earlier.
After reading the TFA (yeah, I know) the FBI actions seem warranted, even though they didn't have a warrant.
Score 1 for the FBI. Epic fail for the 9th circuit. Even though they were right, they still should have gone through the proper procedure.
I don't know about you, but I'm willing to pay an extra $1/year in taxes so the FBI follows proper procedure and gets a warrant. If everybody pays that, it's about $300 million. I doubt it would even cost that much to actually do what the Constitution requires. You know, that document that you SWORE TO UPHOLD AND DEFEND?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I don't know about you but I'd be shooting that thing with my PP7.... silenced.
I believe we steamrolled it on our way to the underside of your car a few days ago. thats on audiobook right? i mean, we're pretty busy these days...
Good people go to bed earlier.
10. Place it on your ex-girlfriend's car.
9. Place it on a train.
8. Place it on a freighter carrying electronics to be recycled in China.
7 Place it in your carry-on luggage and watch the fun at airport security.
6. Dial 911 and tell them you've found a bomb on your car. Invite TV news crews to come watch the fun.
5. Give it to your local ACLU and tell them to make the FBI prove it's theirs before handing it back.
4. Pretend you don't know it's there, and drive to as many Tea Party events as possible.
3. Build an autonomous flying drone capable of carrying it and program it to fly around in circles all day.
2. Hack its logic to input arbitrary coordinates and make virtual visits to places you've always wanted to see.
1. Pretend it's not there and go on a tour of the most patriotic American landmarks to demonstrate your loyalty to the United States.
As long as they're not trespassing, they don't need a warrant (and it doesn't constitute search) to view anything that's in plain sight. These are attached to cars and not placed in the interior compartment, so they neither enter your property nor are "looking at things" that would constitute a search.
Could you have something to measure the draw on your battery? If you have your radio off, lights off, etc. the same every time you start your car, everything should be the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a device like that should draw something.
What I'm really wondering is what happens when that little extra draw is just enough to overtax your electrical system. Does the FBI have to pay for damaging your car? Similar note; if you are in a wreck and the device is damaged, does the FBI claim damages too? If their (presumable lithium) battery explodes or shocks a rescue worker, will the FBI just deny all knowledge and leave the car owner with all the responsibility?
I respect that law enforcement has a very tough job, but in this case, I'm not sure the end justifies the means.
These are attached to cars and not placed in the interior compartment, so they neither enter your property nor are "looking at things" that would constitute a search.
If the car is on private property, and they attach something to the car, how exactly do they do that without entering your private property?
And the idea that this isn’t a search is bullshit. If they happen to notice when they crawl under your car that you have a baggie of coke taped to the inside of your bumper, do you think they’re going to just ignore it? Anything that involves law enforcement entering private property is the potential for them to gather evidence, therefore, a search.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
obligatory link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Trespassing or not, if you pull a gun on a cop what do you think will happen?
sure you cant fight em in real life, but u can certainly take to the internet and piss em off, 4chan or wikileaks anyone? how bout a break down of the device on lifehacker? plenty of ways to stick it to the man online :)
I'm torn on what I would do in this situation. A hammer would probably be the first course of action on it assuming I didn't ask the mechanic to drill through the middle of it to begin with. Keeping it or trying to sell it is just stupid. They would just intercept it somewhere along the way and it would be gone. Putting it somewhere else isn't clever or funny, it is the same as just handing it back to them. The smartass in me would love to have the scenario where when they came asking for their "expensive" toy to tell them to pay him $500 or something for it. That would get into selling stolen goods though and is therefor no good as well. In any event, why in the hell would he have spoken to the FBI when they showed up? Why would anyone talk to the FBI without a lawyer unless they were reporting a crime (and maybe need one even then)? Any authority figure telling me I don't need a lawyer is the equivalent of a neon flashing sign saying "don't say another word until you've spoken with a lawyer."
What I don't really see is how this is fundamentally different from having a cop tail your car... they don't need a warrant for that. This is just more cost effective. Likewise where you drive your car to seems like public information anyways. Why would the government even care about his every day (mundane) life anyway? It's not like they're going to extrapolate his gas station schedule and try to sell him an Exxon card...
The truth is somewhere in the middle.
What about reactive radio technology? That is, you can track a radio receiver by it's reactions to incoming radio waves. Obviously, the receiver monitoring the reaction would need to be in close range, but perhaps these things are all over the place.
Have governments gone through this trouble or am I just pulling from science fiction? I do remember learning something about this in one of my electronics classes.
Stick it in a USPS Flat Rate box and mail it back to FBI HQ, and when they come looking for you for sending an undisclosed electronic device that could be a bomb to them, ask "why would you leave a bomb on my car?"
Make America grate again!
I personally would like to take one apart and see whats in it. I also wonder if that battery pack could be repurposed. But on to the fun stuff.
Call in the bomb squad, after all you found a suspicious device attached to your car. Don't forget to call the TV News stations and Newspapers so it won't just get swept under the rug. Let's see the FBI (or whoever) wriggle under the gaze of the media like.
Make use of the US Postal systems new mailing boxs. If it fits, it ships. If you mail it back to the FBI offices without a return address, they'll probably panic and think it's a bomb. Which will be triply funny when they finally figure out it's just one of their own trackers being returned. And if anybody asks you, just innocently reply, "What's wrong? I just returned to owner, I didn't even ask them to pay for the postage.".
Attach it to something else. This is where the real fun begins. I would normally suggest a wilderness animal, but that thing was so huge, you'd need to stick it on a deer or bear, and if you can pull that off, you and Steve Irwin were probably drinking buddies. On the other hand, some more urban possibilities that can be fun are as follows. The town drunks car (or any really drunk guy at the bar) since they probably need to be tracked. The vehicle of a politician, especially if you want activity of a criminal nature to be uncovered. Try the lawyers car if you want to hear about a big lawsuit being launched by David, Roseburm, and Smeltz. (Ever notice the odd combo names they have for lawyer firms these days?) If you really want to turn things around in an ironic fashion, stick it on a police car, or if possible, a car belonging to the FBI themselves. (Fred, I just don't see him, but the tracker says we're right on top of him.) If you want them to have a cross country chase to recover it, get a whole lot of helium balloons and launch that sucker. (Damn Fred, that kid must have Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or maybe one of them Shield flying cars.) And since I can't let this one category get too large, stick it on a car in the local demolition derby.
Go offroading and have it accidentally fall off and get run over. Several times if possible. And if anyone asks, just tell them "Tracking device, what tracking device? Dunno, maybe something happened when I was driving through Mr Tollmanns field yesterday, maybe you should try looking there. Of course, as I wasn't informed of any tracking devices being on my car I can't really say what might have happened to something I don't know about..."
Take it to your local paranoid conspiracy nut. I have no idea what he would do about it or to it, but it's bound to be fun to watch.
Try to claim it as salvage. I'm not really sure how to do that, but it could be fun.\
Turn it in to lost and found. Don't care who's, just somebodies. Oh, and if it could possibly embarrass the jerk sent to pick it up in some way, even better.
Tossing it on an overhead line like an old pair of tennis shoes. Yeah, you can get in trouble for that one, but just imagine watching them try to retrieve it.
Take it to your local airport, preferably through the security check if you have the balls to try, and hide it somewhere on the other side. That way they have to go through the hassle of airport security to retrieve it. I know FBI has some special dispensation, but it's still a pain in the backside for them too, especially if they are then going to be wandering around (possibly with the locator) trying to find a hidden and mysterious device. That'll make the freaking 6 O'clock news. (Today the airport was closed for 3 hours as FBI officials scoured to terminal for and undisclosed reason. Witnesses say they left carrying a mysterious package of unknown origin. Repeated requests for information from the FBI office have received no reply as of yet.)
(Do you think the FBI would get themselves into hot water by falsely claiming a bomb threat, or embarrass themselves by admitting to recovering and unwarranted and wayward tracking devic
Step 1 : remove it and right away give it to your lawyer. There is one thing that pisses off FBI guys because they cant do crap to you... give their gear to a lawyer.
In the USA, if you dont instantly take steps to protect yourself you will be screwed by the cops. Innocent or not, it does not matter to the police.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'd argue that it violates the being "secure in one's persons" part.
Just drop it somewhere out of your car on the freeway at 55mph...must've come loose on its own. Maybe drag one of the pieces a bit first so it looks like one, then the other dropped off.
OR call the bomb squad and report a suspicious device on your car. BOOM. Tell the FBI to arrest the bomb squad. They love blowing up shit.
This sig contains a manual self-destruct. Kindly please put your foot through your monitor in 8 seconds.
Your TomTom may not be a tracker but your cell phone is.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
The hardware can actually be quite cheap, the connection service plans cost more than most cell-phone data plans, and I'm sure it's a great deal more expensive if you need it to operate outside of cell tower coverage areas.
If the authorities knew which restaurants he liked to frequent with his girlfriend and that he'd recently finished one job and taken up another, I would have imagined they knew that it was family that he was sending the money to. As they know his employer they know his business interests and so they'll know whether his business flying is legitimate or not. Sounds like they'd already worked out it was legitimate.
So your claim is that if somebody sends money to their family and travels on business, then they are a potential terrorist if family and business are in the Middle East? That's quite close to claiming "all people from the Middle East are potential terrorists".
This. If he really wanted to cause trouble for the FBI while remaining blameless, he could easily have claimed he thought it was a bomb. Then the bomb squad would come in, and quite possibly destroy it.
End result, FBI loses face, he gets to have tracker destroyed.
That depends on whether entering that private property briefly constitutes trespassing. As I'm not a lawyer, that's a bit more complicated than they're familiar with.
If they're attaching something to the outside of the car and happen across evidence that was not expected and not in plain sight, then the lawyers will argue endlessly about it and the law enforcement will probably wish they had gotten a warrant. (If they did expect to find evidence there and were using planting the GPS as a ruse for poking around, they'll definitely wish they'd gotten a warrant. If it's in plain sight, you're unprotected.)
I wonder why they needed real time updates instead of just putting a passive receiver on, having it record, and picking it up later.
So basically my cell phone with the government back doors I'm 100% certain manufacturers are required to install. Why do they even need to install these things on your car? Just track the cell phone. You don't even have to worry about it being discovered or recovering it afterwards.
Technically speaking, at least in most of the country, you have to have "No Trespassing" signs posted to make their entry (and by extension placement) onto your property illegal (without verbal warning). If that is the case they would definitely be breaking the law if they placed it at your home, unless they placed it at work/store/movies (most likely not posted). However, even if they do manage to place the device in an unposted area, every time the device tracked you onto a posted "No Trespassing" area would be an instance of trespassing.
Notes
-I've seen "no trespassing" stickers for cars, I wonder if that would qualify their activates as trespassing no mater where they attached the device.
-Only an Un-American idiot can be blind to the fact that this device violates the 4th Amendment. Our founders believed in an extremely limited government, the use of these devices indicate the government believes the exact opposite. That these devices are even in question in the legal system shows how far we've fallen.
I'll estimate that government acts on my behalf, and according to my own moral and social principles, on about 5-10% of what government does. And that's a conservative estimate. Therefore, there is no logical way I could ever claim that "I am the government", since 90-95% of what government does is contrary to what I believe in.
So let's call a spade a spade here, rather than spouting propaganda. The only people who can truly say "I am the government" are the people who support 100% of what government does. If that number is only 50%, than your relationship with government is half ally, half enemy. After all, government isn't going to cut you any slack for disagreeing with them -- so why on earth would you give them the benefit of the doubt? When that number is closer to 0%, government is much more of an enemy than an ally.
It must be so easy to say "you are the government" when your beliefs are right in line with most everything government does.
Let's all call the FBI and ask if this thingamadgig or that thingamabob on our autos is the FBI's device.
Well the issue is what happens if you lose the vehicle? You can look at your tracker to determine where the vehicle is. Oh wait the tracker is on the vehicle you just lost. So now you lost your suspect AND the tracker.
Much cheaper to use a device that essentially "keeps tabs" on the location of the vehicle at all times. With some fuzzy logic you could even have it only notify you if the vehicle goes somewhere outside it's normal routine.
You have to think an organization like the FBI isn't tracking one vehicle. They likely are tracking tens of thousands of vehicles. Lot of manpower (and chances to alert the suspect) to continually going to thousands of vehicles and downloading their locations.
For less critical applications (like determine where your teenage son took the car last night) an "offline tracker" is viable.
That depends on whether entering that private property briefly constitutes trespassing.
The typical excuse that you didn’t realise it was private property until the homeowner caught you out in his field doesn’t work, I don’t think. I’d expect that meddling with someone’s car, parked in their driveway on what is obviously private property, would qualify as trespassing. But I’m not a lawyer either...
If they're attaching something to the outside of the car and happen across evidence that was not expected and not in plain sight
It goes without saying that it wasn’t in plain sight. However, what will really happen is this:
Police, knowing full well that they were conducting an illegal search and cannot use that evidence, will say nothing, leave, trump up some justification to get a search warrant (some K9 officer was walking his dog past your house and it hit, better investigate...) and get some judge to rubber-stamp it for them, come back, and “find” the baggie again. Since you won’t even know that the unlawful search occurred (assuming you hadn’t noticed them poking around), you’ll be screwed.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
That would work but the United States (and entire globe) has a LOT of area.
If you are tracking a relatively few (thousands) number of objects in a large area (millions of square miles).
Essentially it comes down to the "density" of the tracked. More tracked objects in a fixed area the more it makes sense to use fixed station tracking.
The less tracked objects in an area the more it makes sense for each object to simply know where it is and "phone home".
Fixed station tracking (reactive tracker) makes more sense in something like inventory tracking in a warehouse. You may have millions of objects you want to track within a small area.
"Hello, Police? Yes, my mechanic has found what appears to be a pipe bomb attached to the underside of my car. Could you please send some units, and bomb disposal, here immediately, I am concerned for my life."
It's a long black pipe, sealed at both ends, with an antenna wire hanging out of it, and magnets to secure it in place. While it may be a GPS tracker, it could just as likely been a pipe bomb with a remote trigger. Best let the authorities blow that sucker up. And if the FBI come by asking for their tracker back, you can have them arrested for instigating an act of terror on American soil by planting their "pipe-bomb" on your car.
And then the legal system disappears up it's own fundamental orifice.
If I found one on my car I don't know if I'd disassemble it just for the heck of it, drop it on a road and run it over, or stick it on someone else's car.
My most evil thought would be to cause it to fall off my car in one of the New York/New Jersey tunnels. "FBI tracker bomb scare shuts down Lincoln Tunnel for hours"....
If this history developed in China or Venezuela, here will be many comments about the dictatorships of China and Venezuela's Chávez. Where in the hell is the public outrage about this!!?? For shit like this is that I never have set foot in the USA and instead go to vacation and shopping to Japan. If I wanted to be mistreated or harassed by security forces, the mexican police and army already fit the bill, thank you very much.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
Is the amount of time spent sitting in a cell, the money lost in lawyers fees, and the hassle of going to court really worth it? If I am blameless, and the authorities are abusing their power, then emphatically YES. Someone has to keep them honest.
Can you afford to not get paid for the duration of that time sitting in jail? (And quite possibly lose your job completely if it drags on)? Will you lose your house? Can your family afford to get by without your income (and also spending the lawyer fees)?
If you can, I salute you. In my case, I have people who depend on me, and making "a point" doesn't keep a roof over their head.
so give it 3 minutes in the microwave, then smile innocently when you hand it back.
Take it with a grain of salt. A lot of this is bullshit. From both sides I would say.
You don't need navigation, so it's better to just use a big helium balloon.
"your possessions are being neither searched nor seized."
No, the government is just putting a tracking device on your car so that they can track you for whatever reasons they see fit. Move along, folks. Nothing interesting to see here!
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
I find it pretty funny that people freak out about this stuff, but happily purchase vehicles with 'black boxes' like OnStar in them.
The government's need for this kind of James Bond nonsense is decreasing. Turns out people are dumb enough to:
o Post their relationships on Facebook and other such sites ...and then expect that governments won't use all this stuff for their own nefarious purposes.
o Publicly broadcast their most mundane thoughts
o Carry phones and drive vehicles that track and report their location, speed, and direction of travel at every moment
o Make unsecured, unencrypted VOIP calls
o Use Skype, which has long been suspected of having a back door
o Accept biometric identity cards
o Trust unsigned software
o Publicly tag their friends in photos (a secret national face-recognition project probably exists)
Your willingness to participate in the worldwide circle-jerk that is Facebook is doing more to erode citizens' rights than anything else.
It's not just about privacy, it's about control and power. By giving away all of this information about ourselves, we are giving governments and multi-billion-dollar corporations the leverage they need to multiply the ways in which they move, divide, and exploit us. This is happening now, and you are probably guilty of helping it along.
Convenience, peer pressure and disdain for people who actually care about citizenship are apparently the best way to bootstrap this mess. Throw in a dash of "I'll never be able to change it, it's all too big for me" and the chains are in place.
You are responsible only for yourself. Make better decisions. Be willing to put up with some inconvenience to stick to your principles.
One of the maintenance men at this student housing complex I worked at when an undergrad found this weird waterproof clamshell box with a large magnet attached to it.
He handed it over to me (I was the residential director/unpaid IT lackey), and inside was a large NiMH battery pack wired to a little GPS receiver. It didn't seem to be working any longer, and plugging it into a USB socket got me nothing. Inside was a unlabelled SIM card, just a white card with the serial number on it.
I ended up tracking down the company that made the transmitter. They had some shitty amateurish website, and said they provided service to, among others, local law enforcement. I emailed them from my work email, and they never did reply. Nobody ever came to get the box, either. The local LEO was a bunch of high-school educated morons anyway, they probably figured they would be in deep shit if ever caught.
He he
These GPS units getting secretly planted sounds like a business opportunity to me. Take an unused garage with a hydraulic floor lift, and turn it into a room that can block all external signals. Install equipment to detect an signals that may be coming from car. Locate device (if present). Inform client, and allow them to take it from there. Profit. Watch the 3-letter agencies get their panties in a twist over that!
I think everyone here has to remind themselves that the problem isn't with law enforcement tracking people/objects via GPS... it's the warrantless part of this that is a problem. There is just too much potential for abuse.
Next time sell it on EBAY.
Wrap it in aluminum foil and mail it (or, better, FedEx it), to the International Spy Museum
International Spy Museum
Place page
800 F Street Northwest
Washington D.C., District of Columbia 20001
(202) 393-7798
so..... about that GPS function in your cell phone. Yes, the one with the software switch to enable and disable. Yes, that nice smart phone the cell company auto updates for you...
just think about it for a while.
then look up "This is not the droid you're looking for..." on this page http://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-18/dc-18-speakers.html
I just figure that this sort of thing would bring up some people's need for speed in an expensive way.
Most bikes don't have batteries to power the GPS receiver+transmitter. I doubt they could hide an antenna on your bicycle where you wouldn't see it.
Oh yeah, don't use a cell phone that is registered in your name. You can also freeload off open wireless networks and use a VoIP app for your voice calls.
I wonder how long it will be before U.S. Citizens are all required to get RFID tags inserted into their bodies. That will prolly happen after terrorists successfully detonate a nuke inside a major U.S. city.
I didn't say there was no problem with it, I said it doesn't run afoul of 4th Amendment.
I wonder if these cross-dressing Nazi fucks are honest with themselves about who they really work for (hint: it sure as shit isn't the American people).
Which would have been the perfect place to put it. Not your every day run of the mill helium balloon mind you, but something more along the lines of a weather balloon.
Up, Up and Away!
in a cardboard box simply marked "Please Return to FBI". Wait and watch from a distance as they call the bomb squad and blow up their own tracker as a potential bomb.
Someone doing that in my neck of the woods would be greeted by a shotgun-toting homeowner and held for trespassing until the Sheriff showed up.
Lemme guess: Idaho, Montana, Montana or New Hampshire? :p
You must be kidding.
Did you see those G20 videos from Toronto?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EmGTaYbAvw&feature=related
There is no freedom.
-FL
Reminds me of this recent story from England. . .
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/carlisle-man-destroyed-cctv-camera-spying-on-his-home-1.758045?referrerPath=news/1.84783
A man who objected to a CCTV camera keeping watch on his bedroom window from the house opposite appeared before a judge - for stealing the camera and throwing it in a river. [...] The 35-year-old pleaded guilty at Carlisle Crown Court to a charge of burglary and the theft of the £1,500-worth of surveillance equipment.
Though, it does sound like a private issue and the judge was lenient, it's certainly a telling direction we're sliding in. Typically, they try out these sorts of mild cases on us where it's always possible to rationalize the dissolution of human value and human rights. But then it isn't long before they're installing frickin' full-body scanners and arresting people for feeding the homeless. Little bit by little bit, the world becomes unrecognizable from the one we left behind...
-FL
Hey guys, if you need to put a device on my car, could you also put a little gas in the tank? This thing doesn't get good mileage as it is.
And make sure to bolt the thing on, cause I tend to hit speed bumps at 45 or so.
Charge the FBI for storage and transport of their property. Some per-hour charge AND per-mile charge.
I'm sure they have detailed logs of how long and far you've stored/transported it.
And if they complain, just tell them they should have worked out the contract with you BEFORE they planted it.
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
Before or after the funeral following your violent death in the hail of police/FBI gunfire that would immediately erupt at your first shot?
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
He should have thrown it over the White House fence and watched as both White House security forces as well as the FBI forces that have been tracking him spring out from all their hiding places -- and gotten it all on camera.
"Was that a bomb? On the ground, now, hands where I can see them!"
"What? Just returning Federal property to its owner!"
He should have attached it to a bear or a large bird and attach a solar powered cd player with benny hill music on a loop.
If I found something like that on my car, I'd be parking the car somewhere really inconvenient and then calling the police about the ticking device on my car. Having them clear a x block radius around a major metropolitan area should get a bit of attention, and maybe I'd at least get a formal apology, or failing that, the fun of watching different government departments yelling at each other.
.. and the other news is you don't need a GPS, as it's pretty difficult to get lost if you never leave your mom's basement.
How about selling the Car with everything included to a diplomat and parking it up inside the Russian Embassy parking lot?
...I'm going to attach it to a stray dog. Let the chips fall where they may.
This is assuming that the satellite systems that deliver coordinates to the "receiver" are not able to be used in a similar fashion to cell tower triangulation.
The student should have put it on an interstate FedEx truck. I love the comment that the FBI says the kid was boring. Welcome to Amerika folks.
Hey American friends over the ocean Anon Coward here! Listen, listen! Fear is very bad ... don't fear from your fraiends and your neighbours! Whats next? Giving info about your families to the FBI and CIA in the name of your "freedom"? WE ALL know that liberty and freedom are words long forgotten in you land. Maybe the french you make fun of all the time should take back the Statue of Liberty they gave you almost a century ago ... the only thing actualy representing freedom in your country. At least we learned something from the the past great wars ... but you did't and now all of you are suffering from the fading empire syndrome we already experienced in the past - it begins from within. Don't fear ... stand up for your rights ... ooops what rights?
I'm tempted to rewire the OBD-II connector in my car and anything else someone could just clip a tracking device in to. Maybe reverse the polarity or install an inverter and transformer to put out a few hundred AC volts. Doesn't help with the battery powered ones but a great trick against them using my gas, alternator and battery for their "security".
Fortunately for me though I'm white enough I don't have to worry about being suspected of a "bad guy" without doing anything.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Mail it to the ACLU. I may not have a lawyer on retainer, but every July 4 I send money to these guys to deal with this stuff for me, and I'm sure they'd be happy to oblige.
"Well shit. I guess we'd better go get it before he puts it on eBay..."
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Is it wrong that I'd actually be a little upset if the FBI told me that?
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
The linked to Wired article says his lawyers are from CAIR (which is a Muslim Brotherhood front in the USA). So...there is some smoke after all.
Since they are tailing a private citizen, the FBI seems encouraged to prosecute someone for destruction of federal gov't property should they destroy said tracking device. Now, there would HAVE to be some sort of law that would support this particular opinion, right? So if the FBI were tailing a * foreigner* of interest, say a diplomat or employee of, are they going to go knocking on their door and charge them with destruction of said similar property? I don't think so. So, is there a different law for citizens and foreigners in this situation or does it just depend on who you are?