How do you ever? I once stopped at a business on my way home from work and, later that evening, Facebook asked me about my experience at the adjacent business. I'd never heard of that business until Facebook asked me about it, but I was briefly parked in front. To me, that's a strong indication that FB was using my location. It COULD be a false positive, but it seems unlikely. Anyway, I said you'd need one hit. That's to convince yourself and maybe share as evidence on/., like I just did. You'd want to get it to behave that way several times before making any formal report or accusation.
I think the key here is that users have to be able to make informed consent.
I agree. But, if it's more profitable to be shady, and if you have a big enough customer base that either doesn't care or doesn't know any better, shady practices may prevail.
Personally, I'd like to know more about what these companies are collecting on me as-is and I'll be damned before I'll buy one of these assistants.
I just picked Google because it seems like the worse actor between them and Amazon. I don't want any company having a mic in my house, but I'm not going to judge people who decide they value the convenience these devices add over their aversion to an open mic. Why any company? Because these devices provide value for some users and not everyone sees targeted advertising as an invasion of their privacy. If the mic doesn't bother somebody and they really want to be able to say, "Alexa play light jazz," that's not my decision to make for them.
Between Facebook, Google, and Amazon, I really don't trust any of them to be responsible with my data. Why can't Microsoft make one of these? Reliable, trustworthy Microsoft.
I can't see anyone wanting facebook having a microphone in their home.
I still can't believe anyone would tolerate a Google mic in their home, but here we are. Agreed that most people who want one of these will have gone with Google or Amazon, but FB does have some zealots so nothing will surprise me.
Mine has "Location inferred from IP address" up until mid 2016...
Mine doesn't; at least I haven't found it. I wonder what the difference is. In any case, I'm more concerned with the location information they get using "Location Services". I once stopped in a parking lot on the way home from work. That evening, FB asked me about my visit to a business that shared that parking lot. I want to know what's up.
Not web tracking per se, but they have a full record of which ads you have clicked on...
Mine had a list of ads I've clicked on within Facebook but I'm more interested in what they've scraped up about my activities away from their site.
The information they provide in that.zip file seems to be a fraction of your profile containing what you expect to see while hiding the juicy stuff.
...I would have assumed that their very role was to ensure any vulnerability they found would have been patched...
You would assume wrong. That's not their role at all. In fact, discovering vulnerabilities and keeping that information to themselves makes them better at fulfilling their actual role.
Of course, discovering vulnerabilities, refusing to disclose them, and then leaking them is a big loss for everyone.
The recent discovery that Facebook is retaining detailed call data from Android app users was found out by someone looking at the zip Facebook let him download.
Have you actually looked at that.zip? Here are a few things I found: * Call numbers & durations for a portion of 2016 * List of every app that is, or has been, installed on my current & previous phones * Complete transcripts of every conversation I've had using messenger * No location history information * No web tracking history
They're not giving us everything with the "Download my Facebook data" option.
Your upper middle class soccer mom causes far few accidents than your unlicensed drug dealer bum.
I get licensed vs unlicensed; it seems intuitive that unlicensed drivers would be more accident prone. But the rest? Does being upper middle class improve your driving ability? Does being a soccer mom? Does dealing drugs make you worse? Should we ban pharmacists from the road?
...soccer moms will actually have MORE accidents.
What makes you think that soccer moms are going to outperform autonomous cars? Or do you just mean more accidents relative to how many the "bums" are having?
Yes. More LCD monitors. Because the Chinese treat radical activists the same way they treat jaywalkers. I'm not even going to bother digging up examples of how wrong this is.
Only works if they can (1) figure out who they are before, during, and after, and (2) catch them.
How many cameras do you think your hypothetical activist is going to compromise before police decide to stop the guy wearing a blue bed sheet carrying a can of spray paint?
He didn't watch well so another Hawtch-Hawtcher had to come in as a watch-watcher-watcher! And now all the Hawtchers who live in Hawtch-Hawtch are watching on watch watcher watchering watch...
Most people use their phones hundreds of times a day for many hours. Most people use a coffee mug 1-2 times a day for maybe 30 minutes max.
Who uses a coffee mug 1-2 times/day? Once to brew followed by one huge, scalding gulp? I use my coffee mug for about 8 hours a day. Part of that time I use it to sip coffee; the rest of the time I use it to hold coffee. I use my phone intermittently between 4-9 PM to play Words With Friends, browse Facebook, chat/SMS, and occasionally to make or receive a phone call. Am I that unusual?
We live in a world where $40k cars are common now and you complain that a phone you could use for three to four years costs $1k? You use a phone every day. I use it vastly more often than my car.
I use my coffee mug more than my phone and it cost me about $3. My phone has some features that my mug lacks, just like my car has some features that my phone lacks.
I did say "following him on Twitter". I misspoke. I just meant "paying attention to his Tweets". Using the app just saves a step while adding nothing useful.
Slashdot Mirror
How do you ever? I once stopped at a business on my way home from work and, later that evening, Facebook asked me about my experience at the adjacent business. I'd never heard of that business until Facebook asked me about it, but I was briefly parked in front. To me, that's a strong indication that FB was using my location. It COULD be a false positive, but it seems unlikely. Anyway, I said you'd need one hit. That's to convince yourself and maybe share as evidence on /., like I just did. You'd want to get it to behave that way several times before making any formal report or accusation.
There isn't anything that this device gives that is worth having the extreme invasions of privacy that go with them.
I agree, but that's entirely a matter of opinion. Other people may not agree with us and that's their right.
Plus, they are not cheap. For the price of one, I can get a decent set of decent speakers.
I don't know what you consider a decent set of decent speakers, but you can get one of these assistants for $50 or $100.
I think the key here is that users have to be able to make informed consent.
I agree. But, if it's more profitable to be shady, and if you have a big enough customer base that either doesn't care or doesn't know any better, shady practices may prevail.
Personally, I'd like to know more about what these companies are collecting on me as-is and I'll be damned before I'll buy one of these assistants.
...Alexa powered fleshlight...
I'd go with Alexa, but I'd be thinking of Siri.
I just picked Google because it seems like the worse actor between them and Amazon. I don't want any company having a mic in my house, but I'm not going to judge people who decide they value the convenience these devices add over their aversion to an open mic. Why any company? Because these devices provide value for some users and not everyone sees targeted advertising as an invasion of their privacy. If the mic doesn't bother somebody and they really want to be able to say, "Alexa play light jazz," that's not my decision to make for them.
Between Facebook, Google, and Amazon, I really don't trust any of them to be responsible with my data. Why can't Microsoft make one of these? Reliable, trustworthy Microsoft.
I can't see anyone wanting facebook having a microphone in their home.
I still can't believe anyone would tolerate a Google mic in their home, but here we are. Agreed that most people who want one of these will have gone with Google or Amazon, but FB does have some zealots so nothing will surprise me.
Mine has "Location inferred from IP address" up until mid 2016...
Mine doesn't; at least I haven't found it. I wonder what the difference is. In any case, I'm more concerned with the location information they get using "Location Services". I once stopped in a parking lot on the way home from work. That evening, FB asked me about my visit to a business that shared that parking lot. I want to know what's up.
Not web tracking per se, but they have a full record of which ads you have clicked on...
Mine had a list of ads I've clicked on within Facebook but I'm more interested in what they've scraped up about my activities away from their site.
The information they provide in that .zip file seems to be a fraction of your profile containing what you expect to see while hiding the juicy stuff.
...I would have assumed that their very role was to ensure any vulnerability they found would have been patched...
You would assume wrong. That's not their role at all. In fact, discovering vulnerabilities and keeping that information to themselves makes them better at fulfilling their actual role.
Of course, discovering vulnerabilities, refusing to disclose them, and then leaking them is a big loss for everyone.
You might simply miss one trigger and yield false results.
So what? Run the experiment many times with different inputs. You only need one success and can ignore all your failures.
The recent discovery that Facebook is retaining detailed call data from Android app users was found out by someone looking at the zip Facebook let him download.
Have you actually looked at that .zip? Here are a few things I found:
* Call numbers & durations for a portion of 2016
* List of every app that is, or has been, installed on my current & previous phones
* Complete transcripts of every conversation I've had using messenger
* No location history information
* No web tracking history
They're not giving us everything with the "Download my Facebook data" option.
Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays.
Your upper middle class soccer mom causes far few accidents than your unlicensed drug dealer bum.
I get licensed vs unlicensed; it seems intuitive that unlicensed drivers would be more accident prone. But the rest? Does being upper middle class improve your driving ability? Does being a soccer mom? Does dealing drugs make you worse? Should we ban pharmacists from the road?
...soccer moms will actually have MORE accidents.
What makes you think that soccer moms are going to outperform autonomous cars? Or do you just mean more accidents relative to how many the "bums" are having?
Yes. More LCD monitors. Because the Chinese treat radical activists the same way they treat jaywalkers. I'm not even going to bother digging up examples of how wrong this is.
Only works if they can (1) figure out who they are before, during, and after, and (2) catch them.
How many cameras do you think your hypothetical activist is going to compromise before police decide to stop the guy wearing a blue bed sheet carrying a can of spray paint?
...radicals hiding under blue bedsheets with cans of spraypaint...
The Chinese have ways of dealing with radical activists.
I'll tune in when they start allowing autonomous race cars.
That's a dangerous slope.
He didn't watch well so another Hawtch-Hawtcher had to come in as a watch-watcher-watcher! And now all the Hawtchers who live in Hawtch-Hawtch are watching on watch watcher watchering watch...
Do you think stars would be more, or less likely to go to something sponsored by Netflix and Amazon?
Depends on the stars. Most of the big names are still doing their work for Netflix/Amazon's competition.
Most people use their phones hundreds of times a day for many hours. Most people use a coffee mug 1-2 times a day for maybe 30 minutes max.
Who uses a coffee mug 1-2 times/day? Once to brew followed by one huge, scalding gulp? I use my coffee mug for about 8 hours a day. Part of that time I use it to sip coffee; the rest of the time I use it to hold coffee. I use my phone intermittently between 4-9 PM to play Words With Friends, browse Facebook, chat/SMS, and occasionally to make or receive a phone call. Am I that unusual?
We live in a world where $40k cars are common now and you complain that a phone you could use for three to four years costs $1k? You use a phone every day. I use it vastly more often than my car.
I use my coffee mug more than my phone and it cost me about $3. My phone has some features that my mug lacks, just like my car has some features that my phone lacks.
1% of the internet..causes all the drama.
Bernie would make sure that drama was spread out evenly across the masses.
A lot of the conflict on /. is caused by a single username, but not even Anonymous Coward manages 74%.
I did say "following him on Twitter". I misspoke. I just meant "paying attention to his Tweets". Using the app just saves a step while adding nothing useful.
Irrelevant, often false, but a raw view into the unusual mind of a very powerful man.
Apologies.
I'm home from work. The 2009 Zuck interview was with BBC News, not CNN.