I host a small web site on a dedicated server for 20 dollars a month, it's in a much safer environment than my home office, let alone a restaurant, and with much better connectivity
To the OP:
I suggest you go to a nearby Linux Users Group and find someone to install a server for you, with a VM on it to host your Windows applications.
I use Debian, my first server was up for 533 days before the ISP imposed a reboot for a bios update. It has a postgresql database on it.
I run two debian based internet servers hosting dynamic sites connected to a database. Licence cost is 0, and I have 24*7 top notch support, for free, with the proper groups.
Doing the same thing with MS software would : -cost me over 30 000 dollars a year to be compliant -force me to dramatically increase my hardware costs -turn my development work into a nightmare.
I can see how some people could be bothered by Debian servers.
"The environment is unable to complete at this point because it doesn't know what table/join I'll be selecting from."
I got that
"If SQL syntax were the more natural FROM [join description] SELECT [projection]..."
IMO this is a very minor inconvenience compared to the power of SQL for managing large datasets, when one knows how to use it. You are welcome to propose a new standard, but I wonder if you considered all the implications of this change on things other than the convenience of typing?
With MS-Access, I used to solve this with a 3 line VB procedure that outputs the list of field names. With Postgresql, I simply run this query (the table has 34 fields) :
SELECT column_name FROM information_schema.columns WHERE table_name = 'tblcontentieux';
A few key strokes in Emacs to add the table identifier t1 to each field (just a simple replace-string) and the appropriate SQL. Very easy, I did it just for fun, and did not type any of these field names :
I forgot to reply to this part : booleans are useful when you only ever want 2 (or perhaps 2+NULL) values allowed for the column. It's about consistency.
Man, this must be the stupidest argument I read in years.
Typing the column names can easily be avoided with an appropriate query to list them, and a few strokes in a text editor will adapt the list to the query. Emacs has an sql mode which I use all the time for these things; very convenient.
I am dumbfounded that you could put this forward as an argument against SQL. This workplace you mention really appears like an awful place.
>I want to pick and choose what applications I want to run, not >be presented with whatever poorly designed program some >smelly neckbeard favors.
So I take it you must be using open source software?
>This is why Windows has always been favored over both Linux >and MacOS in both the corporate and home environments.
Hu, no : the reason why windows was favored is because it was pushed by IBM; since management in general will simply do what the others do, because that can't be held against them, that's how it spread; certainly not for its qualities.
"The key problem here is that Windows and Microsoft products generally violate one of the main design principles of an appliance. It should not need constant maintenance and babysitting. You should be able to deploy it and ignore it without worrying that it will be a threat to self and others."
I happen to think this is precisely the reason why it spread.
Because it serves the interest of executives/management types at large, who actually benefit from increasing complexity : it shields them from responsability, while allowing them to claim more management fees.
What the fabulous achievements of open source(*) have shown is that management is not only surperfluous, it is detrimental to the success of large scale complex projects. And I believe the latter (management) will in the future be replaced by the former (open source software) for the structure of large organizations.
I realize it may take some time and meet some resistance.
(* : meaning vastly superior software compared to proprietary)
Wow! Rarely seen concentration of FUD in this post, you should be up for a promotion, or a bonus of some kind.
Reality is : -it's way (I mean WAYYYY) faster and easier to install Linux on just about anything than to get windows working -on the various machines I've used to make a living as a developper over the last six years (currently EeePC), everything worked seamlessly right out of box
To check it out : Burn a Knoppix CD (or USB key) and boot your machine with it, you'll get a risk free trial (you should have networking and office suite all up and running) http://knoppix.net/
>It would be nice if Microsoft and many others would get their feet back on the ground and stop injecting hype language into everything
Ha! but this is one thing that they simply cannot do. The hype is here to justify the existence of the corporate structure.
Without it, everyone will soon realize that there is actually very little improvement going on with management in general, and they'll turn to open source as an advantageous replacement to all that buzz.
Don't wait for them to stop : just use open source software. That will quickly starve buzzword mongers.
Please see the second part of my reply to haaz a few posts below yours (http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2662985&cid=38985289) concerning the servers I run.
Concerning your production model : I confirm LABarr's post, just above yours (http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2662985&cid=38985211)
I run two web apps from two linux servers. The first one was brought up 530 days ago and is going strong, it's usage peaks at.3% with half a dozen full time users. The hardware costs 20.00$/month, 0.00$ license, 1Go/s connectivity included.
The licensing costs of doing the same thing with a proprietary stack and DB would be around 30 000.00$/year to be fully compliant. I also would have to get more expensive hardware, my work would turn from pleasure to nightmare, and I probably never could have completed my projects anyway.
TBH, no. I just wanted to mention that French statisticians are no dummies, and the fact is that thousands of people died from the heat wave, for various reasons.
>"The new estimate comes a day after the French Parliament >released a harshly worded report... "
Ha! Talk is cheap...
>it seems their bosses have some other opinion, since they did not >blame anthropogenic global warming.
You had me smile there. It's no wonder, really : people may be more 'ecologically aware' these days, but campaigns still cost a lot of money, and the funds come from businesses, if you get my drift...
I know this seems sarcastic, but I have been following environmental news since 1993.
>Thank you for the comparison with the "deniers of climate change", I >am honored by it...... well, honored if I am am allowed to pick >which "denier" to be compared with.
The anthropogenic part of global warming is the subject of debate, but it is getting an ever larger percentage of responsability in litterature, as far as I can tell?
In any case, I am amazed at having watched politicians posture for the last twenty years, while doing next to nothing for the environment, if not worse, I mean actively financing private interests to destroy it:-(
We will see other strongly worded reports, I am sure.
"They just compared with the death in the previous year but did not adjust to the population structure."
FYI, the statisticians that calculated these figures are extremely highly trained mathematicians, with 10 to 15 years of specialized studies on their resume, sometimes more.
Your way of disparaging their work is very similar to the disinformation tactics used by deniers of climate change.
>I am a huge fan of open source, but it rarely comes with enterprise level support, most cases the best you can do is a a forum or IRC Channel
I second that. Most cases, that is actually the best you can do : very competent, often instantaneous support. No charge
>So Yes you will save 1000's on licensing costs (THANKS BSA!), but you will spend 40K a year on an IT guy to provide support.
Hahaha! Right... that, my friend sounds like pure FUD to me, because in my experience (software for government organizations) quite the opposite is true.
Proprietary software actually very rarely sells at the official listed price, discounts of 80% being common. But the maintenance contracts are for a percentage of the *official price*. Those contracts can run for much for than what you quote. I do not see that the service provided by the very expensive executives that promote them is better than the forum you mentionned above. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I have been working full time with linux desktops for the past 6-7 years. Everything just works, and upgrades too. Installs are a breeze, and *much* faster than w/ windows.
It is very easy to try also : just burn a Knoppix CD and boot a machine with it : very likely you'll have a complete desktop, office suite included, and a working internet connection if your LAN allows it, all in a matter of minutes.
I sometimes have to do work on customers' machines, I can't believe how everything seems so cumbersome now in the Windows world.
>Been around since ~1997 too. Perhaps technical discussions went on here some time before that?
I have read comments to the same effect in other discussions (can't find one at the moment).
I'll admit I noticed a sort of dilution of the technical level of late, but it may be the price to pay for popularity. I followed some very interesting discussions here, and recently.
Besides, who could follow high level technical discussions about so many subjects? For instance, the posts below yours, that quickly explain why GPUs are good at password cracking, are _good_ information for me.
Slashdot Mirror
>I would not push your main server to the cloud
I'm curious why?
I host a small web site on a dedicated server for 20 dollars a month, it's in a much safer environment than my home office, let alone a restaurant, and with much better connectivity
To the OP:
I suggest you go to a nearby Linux Users Group and find someone to install a server for you, with a VM on it to host your Windows applications.
I use Debian, my first server was up for 533 days before the ISP imposed a reboot for a bios update. It has a postgresql database on it.
You can see it in action here (those are records of insurance claims ):
http://as-pro.biz/clients/login?nom_utilisateur=demo-mfp&mot_de_passe=demo-mfp
What a nice piece of FUD...
I run two debian based internet servers hosting dynamic sites connected to a database. Licence cost is 0, and I have 24*7 top notch support, for free, with the proper groups.
Doing the same thing with MS software would :
-cost me over 30 000 dollars a year to be compliant
-force me to dramatically increase my hardware costs
-turn my development work into a nightmare.
I can see how some people could be bothered by Debian servers.
The full Debian system includes something like 35 000 packages, only a fraction of which are needed for any machine.
I run several Debian based web servers with a LAMP stack of Linux/Apache/Mod_perl/Postgresql. Disk usage is less than 3Go.
"The environment is unable to complete at this point because it doesn't know what table/join I'll be selecting from."
I got that
"If SQL syntax were the more natural FROM [join description] SELECT [projection] ..."
IMO this is a very minor inconvenience compared to the power of SQL for managing large datasets, when one knows how to use it. You are welcome to propose a new standard, but I wonder if you considered all the implications of this change on things other than the convenience of typing?
With MS-Access, I used to solve this with a 3 line VB procedure that outputs the list of field names. With Postgresql, I simply run this query (the table has 34 fields) :
SELECT column_name FROM information_schema.columns WHERE table_name = 'tblcontentieux';
A few key strokes in Emacs to add the table identifier t1 to each field (just a simple replace-string) and the appropriate SQL. Very easy, I did it just for fun, and did not type any of these field names :
SELECT t1.id_contentieux, t1.id_etat, t1.affaire, t1.libelle, t1.date_debut_contentieux, t1.date_fin_contentieux, t1.ref_dossier, t1.ref_avocat, t1.ref_huissier, t1.ref_assureur, t1.id_service, t1.notes_contentieux, t1.id_categorie, t1.id_position, t1.id_nature, t1.suivi_par, t1.montant, t1.id_site, t1.id_client, t1.description, t1.franchise, t1.id_keyword, t1.ref_archive, t1.remboursement_prevu, t1.address1, t1.address2, t1.ville, t1.code_postal, t1.id_budget, t1.responsabilite, t1.id_agent, t1.id_contrat, t1.id_garantie, t1.id_objet_parc FROM tblcontentieux t1;
"Why are you using booleans in your database? "
I forgot to reply to this part : booleans are useful when you only ever want 2 (or perhaps 2+NULL) values allowed for the column. It's about consistency.
They are, there is just disagreement over them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_data_type
Postgresql has a boolean data type
Man, this must be the stupidest argument I read in years.
Typing the column names can easily be avoided with an appropriate query to list them, and a few strokes in a text editor will adapt the list to the query. Emacs has an sql mode which I use all the time for these things; very convenient.
I am dumbfounded that you could put this forward as an argument against SQL. This workplace you mention really appears like an awful place.
>I want to pick and choose what applications I want to run, not >be presented with whatever poorly designed program some >smelly neckbeard favors.
So I take it you must be using open source software?
>This is why Windows has always been favored over both Linux
>and MacOS in both the corporate and home environments.
Hu, no : the reason why windows was favored is because it was pushed by IBM; since management in general will simply do what the others do, because that can't be held against them, that's how it spread; certainly not for its qualities.
"The key problem here is that Windows and Microsoft products generally violate one of the main design principles of an appliance. It should not need constant maintenance and babysitting. You should be able to deploy it and ignore it without worrying that it will be a threat to self and others."
I happen to think this is precisely the reason why it spread.
Because it serves the interest of executives/management types at large, who actually benefit from increasing complexity : it shields them from responsability, while allowing them to claim more management fees.
What the fabulous achievements of open source(*) have shown is that management is not only surperfluous, it is detrimental to the success of large scale complex projects. And I believe the latter (management) will in the future be replaced by the former (open source software) for the structure of large organizations.
I realize it may take some time and meet some resistance.
(* : meaning vastly superior software compared to proprietary)
Wow! Rarely seen concentration of FUD in this post, you should be up for a promotion, or a bonus of some kind.
Reality is :
-it's way (I mean WAYYYY) faster and easier to install Linux on just about anything than to get windows working
-on the various machines I've used to make a living as a developper over the last six years (currently EeePC), everything worked seamlessly right out of box
To check it out :
Burn a Knoppix CD (or USB key) and boot your machine with it, you'll get a risk free trial (you should have networking and office suite all up and running)
http://knoppix.net/
Once you love it :
install Debian, following instructions here at
http://wiki.debian.org/QuickInstall
(other distributions exist)
This will preserve your Windows partitions, and the content will be accessible easily from Linux
You'll soon discover that computers are actually fun.
>It would be nice if Microsoft and many others would get their feet back on the ground and stop injecting hype language into everything
Ha! but this is one thing that they simply cannot do. The hype is here to justify the existence of the corporate structure.
Without it, everyone will soon realize that there is actually very little improvement going on with management in general, and they'll turn to open source as an advantageous replacement to all that buzz.
Don't wait for them to stop : just use open source software. That will quickly starve buzzword mongers.
I concurr.
Please see the second part of my reply to haaz a few posts below yours
(http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2662985&cid=38985289)
concerning the servers I run.
Way to go! I'll be pleased to see that succeed.
The quote below comes from an article in the Harvard
Business Review that you may find relevant to your endeavour :
"Peer inside an open-source software project, and you might think you've glimpsed that organizational nirvana."
I pasted the article here :
http://pastebin.com/W6ddrTFi
Concerning your production model : I confirm LABarr's post, just above yours (http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2662985&cid=38985211)
I run two web apps from two linux servers. The first one was brought up 530 days ago and is going strong, it's usage peaks at .3% with half a dozen full time users. The hardware costs 20.00$ /month, 0.00$ license, 1Go/s connectivity included.
The licensing costs of doing the same thing with a proprietary stack and DB would be around 30 000.00$/year to be fully compliant. I also would have to get more expensive hardware, my work would turn from pleasure to nightmare, and I probably never could have completed my projects anyway.
I think you are on the right track.
>have you read the article ? :)
TBH, no. I just wanted to mention that French statisticians are no dummies, and the fact is that thousands of people died from the heat wave, for various reasons.
>"The new estimate comes a day after the French Parliament >released a harshly worded report... "
Ha! Talk is cheap...
>it seems their bosses have some other opinion, since they did not >blame anthropogenic global warming.
You had me smile there. It's no wonder, really : people may be more 'ecologically aware' these days, but campaigns still cost a lot of money, and the funds come from businesses, if you get my drift...
I know this seems sarcastic, but I have been following environmental news since 1993.
>Thank you for the comparison with the "deniers of climate change", I >am honored by it ... ... well, honored if I am am allowed to pick >which "denier" to be compared with.
The anthropogenic part of global warming is the subject of debate, but it is getting an ever larger percentage of responsability in litterature, as far as I can tell?
In any case, I am amazed at having watched politicians posture for the last twenty years, while doing next to nothing for the environment, if not worse, I mean actively financing private interests to destroy it :-(
We will see other strongly worded reports, I am sure.
>This class of vulnerability has been known about since at least 2003.
Yes, I read another comment to that effect.
So, why is MS suddenly issuing an out-of-band security update then? There was plenty of time for quiet regular updates before.
>Well, there's the typical cultist response from a Warmist - "You pointed out something that is embarrassing to my faith so Shut Up"!
It's not embarrassing at all.
All kinds of problems happen with sensors, this is just one of them. The number of monitiors, as well as validation tests, compensate for them.
Scientists are not usually stupid.
"and many, like the French, are very soap-thrifty"
Dude, I'm French, and I'm disappointed when women smell soap :-(
"They just compared with the death in the previous year but did not adjust to the population structure."
FYI, the statisticians that calculated these figures are extremely highly trained mathematicians, with 10 to 15 years of specialized studies on their resume, sometimes more.
Your way of disparaging their work is very similar to the disinformation tactics used by deniers of climate change.
I, for one, really enjoy that name. It really conveys the right feeling, as seems to be confirmed by the onslaught of the schills against it.
Disclaimer : I'm a French programmer
This may be because I had a twenty hour work day, but I had a good laugh with your post.
If someone has mod points...
who says they need one? they only have to pay for a contractor instead of licence fees. And they can also replace him, if need be.
It also has an outstanding documentation
>I am a huge fan of open source, but it rarely comes with enterprise level support, most cases the best you can do is a a forum or IRC Channel
I second that. Most cases, that is actually the best you can do : very competent, often instantaneous support. No charge
>So Yes you will save 1000's on licensing costs (THANKS BSA!), but you will spend 40K a year on an IT guy to provide support.
Hahaha! Right... that, my friend sounds like pure FUD to me, because in my experience (software for government organizations) quite the opposite is true.
Proprietary software actually very rarely sells at the official listed price, discounts of 80% being common. But the maintenance contracts are for a percentage of the *official price*. Those contracts can run for much for than what you quote. I do not see that the service provided by the very expensive executives that promote them is better than the forum you mentionned above. Quite the opposite, in fact.
+1
I have been working full time with linux desktops for the past 6-7 years. Everything just works, and upgrades too. Installs are a breeze, and *much* faster than w/ windows.
It is very easy to try also : just burn a Knoppix CD and boot a machine with it : very likely you'll have a complete desktop, office suite included, and a working internet connection if your LAN allows it, all in a matter of minutes.
I sometimes have to do work on customers' machines, I can't believe how everything seems so cumbersome now in the Windows world.
>Been around since ~1997 too. Perhaps technical discussions went on here some time before that?
I have read comments to the same effect in other discussions (can't find one at the moment).
I'll admit I noticed a sort of dilution of the technical level of late, but it may be the price to pay for popularity. I followed some very interesting discussions here, and recently.
Besides, who could follow high level technical discussions about so many subjects? For instance, the posts below yours, that quickly explain why GPUs are good at password cracking, are _good_ information for me.