Slashdot Mirror
The Windows 8 Power Struggle: Metro Vs Desktop
MojoKid writes "Metro, Microsoft's new UI, is bold; a dramatic departure from anything the company has previously done in the desktop/laptop space, and absolutely great. It's tangible proof that Redmond really can design and build its own unique products and experiences. However, the transition to Metro's Start menu is jarring for some desktop users, and worse yet, Desktop mode and Metro don't mesh well at all. The best strategy Microsoft could take would be to introduce users to Metro via its included apps and through tablets, while prominently offering the option to maintain the Desktop environment. Power users who choose to use the classic UI for desktops and laptops can still be exposed to Metro via tablets and applications without being forced to wade through it on their way to do something important."
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-consumer-preview-call-common-sense-142476
Also, try to spend a few minutes learning shortcuts etc. before dissing the experience. It's not a SP for Windows 7, it's a new OS.
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/02/getting-starte...
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/03/windows-8-tricks-tips-and-s...
And it will enable many devices like these that don't exist now:
Idea Pad Yoga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz2R9y9ZvkA&hd=1
Samsung x86 Tablet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8-K1ELv6DE&hd=1
Try doing that with an iPad.(There are iPad-like ARM Windows 8 tablets too that won't run x86 apps but which will have Office).
83inch displays: http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/29/2833173/windows-8-82-inch-...
All these form factors tied in the with the vast Win32 ecosystem(except ARM tablets) and a single Touch-first Metro ecosystem.
It's interesting how the comments on Apple/iPad/Post-PC articles, financials of Apple/Dell/HP etc. state that "MS is dying in the Post-PC" era, but now when they come out with a solution to make a OS run on different form factors and to have tablets that are not just consumption devices, the comments on here are skewed towards "Why change something that works?". If PCs are really dying, why not attempt to fix that instead of standing by with their head in the sand(like RIMM)?
There will always be people unhappy with anything you build or change. They should just go with their vision of what they think is right and that's what they did. They envision that with Windows 8, most new monitors will be touch enabled because of the demand so that for some functions(like clicking on links), people can use touch.
You may disagree with the vision, but you can't disagree that there is a method behind the madness.
This space for rent.
Obviously... lost a lot of market share to Mint.
Which is too bad because Canonical has an amazing reputation!
I think Microsoft Operating Systems follow the trek movie rule: Every other release sucks.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
MS had, basically, two options: create a new brand for an OS tailored for post-PC devices, or continue with what they had. They chose to create a new (and pretty good, actually) interface in Metro, but then apply it to both post-PC devices and PCs and brand it as Windows in both places. I think that I would have gone the other way, creating a Metro brand to go with the interface, and tailoring it even more closely to post-PC systems, while keeping the Win7 interface on the desktop, and sharing the underlying kernel and as many APIs as possible between the two variants. Time will tell if that was a good decision or not; it was certainly a bold decision, given the success that Apple and Google have had with specific post-PC brands and interfaces.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
Major change prompts resistance! News at 11!
New UIs always get resisted because no one actually *likes* changes to their personal process of doing things unless the benefits are immediately apparent. Give it a year and no one will even remember what Win7 looked like, and those that do will be telling epic tales about the slaying of the monsters that inhabited it's Start Menu.
So Metro and Desktop will be different. Well, gee. How did I see that coming? Already fighting with designing interfaces which work well for a tablet or mobile touch screen, also working with Desktop, so the application interface doesn't have to be written twice and confuse users with moving between unfamiliar means of viewing and manipulating data within the same application. Not very easy. I wish them a lot of luck, but that luck begins with the divisions within Microsoft working together, not fighting each other. Drop the ball here and Microsoft may never get back into the game.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Failed web "designers" are ruining GUI applications left and right. It doesn't matter if they're open-source apps or if they're closed-source commercial apps. These self-labeled "UI designers" and "usability experts" get involved with a popular project that had a usable UI, and they completely trash it.
This has happened to GNOME. This has happened to Firefox. This is now apparently even happening to Windows!
Somehow, these "designers" have managed to create UIs that are far worse than even non-artistic programmers came up with. Firefox is a perfect example of this. The earlier releases had very usable UIs. Then came Firefox 4, and the entire UI was shit upon. Each subsequent release has fucked up the UI more and more. Now we don't have menus by default, we don't have a status bar by default, and Firefox is damn near unusable without heavy tweaking to re-enable such basic UI elements!
The only appropriate thing to do is to shun these people. It doesn't matter which project it is, or what sort of application is being developed. Refuse their contributions. Refuse their ideas. Shoot down their suggestions in mailing list discussions. Don't allow them direct commit access to any source code. Ensure that bugs are logged regarding their horrible designs, especially when usability is impacted.
We need to go back to software developers creating UIs. Maybe they're not artists, and maybe the UIs they built weren't "pretty" (a.k.a full of curved corners and gradients), but at least they were intuitive and we could use them to get real work done efficiently. We can't do that any longer, now that "designers" are trashing every UI they come into contact with.
Let's see; I work on two 22 inch monitors. I can move from the far left edge to the far right edge with a three inch movement of my mouse. Now you want me to have to lean toward the monitors and move my arm over three feet to accomplish the same thing. How ergonomic! How NEW! How efficient!
Microsoft wants to make your desktop computer into a tablet. I support this, because anyone who wants a real desktop computer will need to switch operating systems.
It's finally going to be the Year of Linux on the Desktop, and we have Microsoft to thank!
yes but that would make sense.
Someone will find a way to get it back to me. YOU'LL NEVER TAKE IT FROM ME!
I write professional videogame reviews! http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/
>and absolutely great. It's tangible proof that Redmond really can design and build its own unique products and experiences.
Submitter is a blunt, biased idiot.
It's tangible proof that Redmond really can design and build its own unique products and experiences.
Decades-old multi-billion dollar corporation that can make its own unique products...if it tries REEEL HARD!
Microsoft is the CocaCola of the software world, only without the fizz.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Mondrian_CompRYB.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet_Mondrian
I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
"Redmond really can design and build its own unique products and experiences"
It's a blatant ripoff of the Ipad interface. Windows 95 was a blatant ripoff of the Mac. DOS was a braindead clone of the unix command line that Gates didn't even write, he bought it from another company and then resold to IBM.
I travel a lot, all over Europe, North America and Asia, and I've come to realize that tablets are basically a myth. While there is a lot of hype around them, and many have been sold, almost nobody actually uses them!
During my travels, I see people using cell phones. I see people using smart phones. I see people using laptops. I see people using netbooks. I see people using desktops. But it's extremely rare to see anyone using tablets. I see literally thousands of other people using smart phones for every tablet user I see.
I visit all sorts of environments, from huge corporate offices, to parks, to restaurants, to planes, to universities and colleges, to airports, to train stations, to city squares, to government offices, to subways, to cafes, to so many other places. Given the amount of traveling I do and the huge number of people I see in any given day, and given how much we hear about tablets, I should be constantly seeing people use tablets. But I just don't.
I think that they're the kind of device that somebody buys because of the marketing hype or because they sound like they might be useful, but then in practice they turn out to be feeble and impractical. Then they sit there on a bookshelf or table top, completely unused, until they're all but forgotten about.
I'm sure a bunch of people are going to reply to this saying how they find tablets useful in some very niche situation, but these are indeed very niche cases. The widespread usage of tablets just isn't there, like it is with smart phones or even netbooks. The popularity of tablets is a marketing myth, I suspect, rather than a reality.
If there are no on screen visuals I'm lost. I rarely use keyboard shortcuts and I can see that increasing when there isn't a keyboard.
The problem I have with Metro is that it's so hard to organize things. I have over 1000 shortcuts currently on my Windows 7 machine, where are they supposed to fit in Metro. I'd need to scroll for a week to find what I'm looking for. "Oh, but you can just type the name of what you are looking for. " but I don't remember the name just what the icon looks like. Keep your Metro, give me a start menu and we can both be happy.
... Apart from Metro only being useful if you have a laptop/tablet/smartphone (touch screen Desktop/TV never worked!)
Was that both GUI's weren't linked, they were in essence 2 separate desktops.
So if i opened IE (or any other program) on Metro and had to switch to the "other" desktop, If I opened IE there it was a totally new session. (I'd think it would be better, or nice, to ask the user if he wanted to pull the session from metro.)
i gave it a week of use, then wiped it.
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
So this guy says that Metro is bold and great. OK, so he says. I can say too. Metro is terrible. It is ugly, clunky, and has no place on a desktop machine. Wow, you can have one big app and one little app running at once with no "Windows". Imagine that - Windows (tm) without Windows. I know that sounds stupid, and it is. What is also is, is right for a pure touch interface. It works there (although it is still bold and ugly not bold and great). It seems fine for touch. But it has no place on a real computer that has a mouse and keyboard. No place at all. It is a toy UI designed for devices that are adjunct devices, content consumption devices, companion devices, etc. - whatever you want to call them. It is not a UI for a "real" computer. Now, can more people than ever make use of this type of device without a "primary" machine? Yes, they are getting better and some folks can indeed use them as their only machine. Can everyone? Hell no. This is one place where Apple made a good decision in separating out what runs on OS X and what runs on iOS.
I mean Star Trek 3 was good. I mean Reverend Jim the Klingon for FSM sakes.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
I just watched a tv program on a guy who was in charge of an annual exhibition (a home design/decor thing). He said "We had to make the displays better every year, so people will keep coming. This just wasn't possible, so we just make it *different* every year, and hope that people would think its better." I think the same applies to microsoft windows. They just move stuff around and hope people will confuse 'different' with 'improvement'. Really it just means people waste time and effort hunting for the new hiding place of the stuff they need to use.
Metro is just win3.1 all over again ...
If it's all running full-screen, then why call it Windows anymore? Why not call it Screen-Saver Explorer?
The one thing I was hoping that Windows could do for a tablet is make multi-tasking not suck!
Problem is they fucked up the setup on the desktop. On an embedded device, Metro is everything. Makes sense, it is the embedded GUI, and they can't run PC apps. So you fire up the device, Metro is what you get.
However on a PC, the desktop should be what you get, Metro should be something you open in it. That way you can run Metro apps if you want, which is cool, but on the terms of a desktop. You can let them run full screen, or not, put them in a window. It'll seem "full screen" to them, they'll just be told that window is their screen.
The reason is the multi-window paradigm is what works for desktop computing. It is an efficient way to work with multiple programs, which is what almost everyone does. Even non tech types. It is efficient to be able to open up multiple things, arrange them as you like, switch between them easily, and so on.
The smart phone idea is not an efficient way to work, it is just a necessary one given the limitations of the platform. Trying to force it on the desktop is rather stupid.
I can see the benefits of sharing a codebase, but the fundamental interface is going to need to remain different.
The more I see about Win 8, the more I'm convinced that Microsoft has no plans of marketing it to corporate users (outside of tablets). I guess they've decided that Win 7 is good enough for people to do actual work on, and don't plan on discontinuing it. At least, I hope that's the plan. They've had enough trouble getting people to move off of XP, this is going to be a thousand times worse. I'd be totally fine with that decision, assuming they patch Win 7 with some of the back-end improvements (which by most accounts are generally pretty minor). Even the strongest proponents I've read for Win 8 say that once you get used to it (and learn the new shortcuts) the new UI isn't any worse than the existing one on the desktop. Not exactly a strong recommendation to go out and upgrade.
Speaking to desktop use only:
When Windows XP came out functionality was improved. I didn't like the Fisher-Price interface, but all the functionality was there, and then some. It was very much like Windows 2000, finished.
Looking at Windows 8, it simply seems like Windows 7, crippled. I don't even know what to make of the Metro interface, as it isn't efficient, and it sure isn't attractive.
I hate to say this--but this concept of 'Apps' that everybody is latching on to--it is a huge pile of steaming buzzword. Yes their are applications, but the concept that all of computing can be neatly tucked and packed into an easily marketable single purpose flashy shiny big round button GUI software as a service plug in API model full of synergism and one-click-wonder wow--perhaps, but not for the power users, not for enterprise. There may be a day, but it isn't this decade IMO. I understand how consumers want this and blah blah rah grandma simplicity blah new age computing blah ease of use apple blah, but I'm here to comment about Apps and how I hear that word used in the wrong places (IMO).
Where's my 'app' for DBA activity? Where's my simple one click 'app' that monitors hundreds of servers, routers, switches? Where's my 'app' that automates my build processes? Where's my app that gives my complex analysis of all my interconnected nodes? You wont find them--not soon and not on 'markets'. Because these are complex intertwined multi-APPLICATION, to use the full word, work-flows that require desktops or complex usage of scripting and consoles. Sorry but for power use, it's just the way it is, in this decade and probably a few to come. These things can be done well and simply, but not without serious power-tools and planning.
Let's me honest, computing has been around for decades now, and even though on the consumer level 'apps' reign supreme it seems, there will always always always be power users who will need more complex environments for the vast array of software suites, tools, languages, and utilities needed to maintain and administer complex networks for build processes or whatever. Perhaps there will be a day when it is all unified. But that would require vast cooperation across industries, standards bodies, companies, open-sources houses, etc. Until some defacto design standard from layer 1 to 7 and from user space to kernals to whatever is implemented across the industry, nothing will ever be 'simple apps' while separate unique tools and such exist--thus guaranteeing the lifetime of the terminal and the desktop. It seems we are now defining apps as "guis that are flashy, sleek, use large rounded buttons, and have limited functionality', well, there's many of those out there. End rant. (the word app just sets me off)
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
I liked it when it was a Macintosh app called "At Ease."
Ewww . . . maybe MS should just stick to copying Apple's UI and features. Its served them well these past 15+ years.
My gut feeling is that Win 8 is going to be a spectacular failure like Vista. People who buy PCs with Win 8 loaded are going to throw a fit and demand a downgrade to Win 7. Microsoft will survive because no matter how much they screw up, the competition can't really take their place. So it's not necessarily a bad gamble for Microsoft. It might work. I doubt it, but I could be wrong. If I'm right then after it fails and they get burned by the "not gonna buy it" and "I demand a downgrade from this crap" crowd, they'll quickly re-design WIn 9 to look like Win 7 with some added features and put that out.
Face it, nobody likes it.
Any time you find yourself explaining Why People Should Like Your Stuff if they Only Used It Right, it means you have failed Marketing 101 and need to turn in your diploma, because you obviously weren't paying attention in class.
(my first degree was in Marketing, fwiw)
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
End users should be designing the interfaces, as what is 'apparent' to a developer isn't to the rest of the world. They 'think' computers, but the average Joe on the street just wants a working appliance
---- Booth was a patriot ----
An article that everyone (including plenty Slashdotters) see when they open Microsoft Visual Studio today:
Create your first Metro style app using C++
[This documentation is preliminary and is subject to change.]
A WindowsMetro style app is tailored for the user experience that's introduced in Windows 8 Consumer Preview. Every great Metro style app follows certain design principles that make it look more beautiful, feel more responsive, and behave more intuitively than a traditional desktop app. Before you start creating a Metro style app, we recommend that you read about the design philosophy of the new model. You can find more info at Designing Metro style apps.
Here, we introduce essential code and concepts to help you use C++ to develop a Metro style app that has a UI that's defined in Extensible Application Markup Language (XAML).
If you'd rather use another programming language, see:
Create your first Metro style app using JavaScript
Create your first Metro style app using C# or Visual Basic
Objectives
Before we start coding, let's look at some of the features and design principles that you can use to build a Metro style app with C++. It will also be helpful to look at how Microsoft Visual Studio 11 Express Beta for Windows 8 supports the design and development work. And it's important to understand how and when to use the Visual C++ component extensions (C++/CX) to simplify the work of coding against the Windows Runtime. Our example app is a blog reader that downloads and displays data from an RSS 2.0 or Atom 1.0 feed.
This article is designed so that you can follow the steps to create the app yourself. By the time you complete this tutorial, you'll be prepared to build your own Metro style app by using XAML and C++.
Comparing C++ desktop apps to Metro style apps
If you're coming from a background in Windows desktop programming with C++, you'll probably find some aspects of Metro style app programming to be very familiar, and other aspects that require some learning.
What's the same?
You're still coding in C++, and you can access the STL, the CRT, and any other C++ libraries, except that you can't invoke certain functions directly, such as those related to file I/O.
If you're used to visual designers, you can still use them. If you're used to coding UI by hand, you can hand-code your XAML.
You're still creating apps that use Windows operating system types and your own custom types.
You're still using the Visual Studio debugger, profiler, and other development tools.
You're still creating apps that are compiled to native machine code by the Visual C++ compiler. Metro style apps in C++ don't execute in a managed runtime environment.
What's new?
The design principles for Metro style apps are very different from those for desktop apps. Window borders, labels, dialog boxes, and so on, are de-emphasized. Content is foremost. Great Metro style apps incorporate these principles from the very beginning of the planning stage. For more info, see Planning Your App.
You're using XAML to define the entire UI. The separation between UI and core program logic is much clearer in a Metro style app than in an MFC or Win32 app. Other people can work on the appearance of the UI in the XAML file while you're working on the behavior in the code file.
You're primarily programming against a new, easy-to-navigate, object-oriented API, the Windows Runtime, although Win32 is still available for some functionality.
When you use Windows Runtime objects, you're (typically) using C++/CX, which provides special syntax to create and access Windows Runtime objects in a way that enables C++ exception handling, delegates, events, and automatic reference counting of dynamically created objects. When you use C++/CX, the details of the underlying COM and Windows architecture are almost completely hidden from your app code. But if you prefer, you can program directly against the COM interfaces by using the Windows Runtime C++ Temp
Parenthetically, why don't you ever see in Star Trek someone cleaning the fingerprints and accumulated grunge off all those touch screen displays? There must be a janitorial service just to do that.
Oh, because it's fiction, that's why.
Now that I think of it, that might make the basis of a story. A janitor forgets to lock out the navigation console, juices up his rag, and sends the ship Where No One Wants To Go.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
To me the most unusable part of windows was the control panel, because it's just a "big f*cking wall of icons". Even sorted rows first then columns, cannot find anything that way. And metro looks like the same.
Why are all my computer interfaces being transformed into children's toys?
Why are my menu bars, tables, and text boxes being replaced by coloured icons dancing around the screen. Am I expected to just intuitively "feel" where all the programs and options are now?
This isn't just an OS problem. It happening across the program spectrum and I blame the influence of smartphones and similar touch oriented devices.Speaking as someone who has never owed a smart phone I have always found them restrictive and confusing. Using one is like navigating a theme park without a map. Eventually you'll want to just find a place to sit down but you'll only get more lost among the theme rides and hot dog stands.
If this nonsense gets rolled out onto computers that people are supposed to be working on, it will either precipitate a recession or an injunction by employers groups. Either way, I'm sticking to menubars.
May the Maths Be with you!
I have over 1000 shortcuts currently on my Windows 7 machine, where are they supposed to fit in Metro. I'd need to scroll for a week to find what I'm looking for. "Oh, but you can just type the name of what you are looking for. " but I don't remember the name just what the icon looks like.
I hate Metro. And I mean hate. I haven't even used it and I hate it. Pure, prejudiced, hate.
But are you retarded? You can't remember the name of something but you can recognize thousands of icons designed for 16x16 display?
All I want is an option in the Control Panel that says "Completely disable Metro UI. I understand this will prevent me from installing, launching or utilizing Metro Apps. This will enable the classic Start Menu and will make the Classic Desktop your only operating environment." Problem solved. Just fucking humor us.
" I have with Metro is that it's so hard to organize things."
what? You will be able to organize things.
Like A lot of MS item in the last 5 years, there pretty good..but MS doesn't utilize them well. Like pinning everything to the start
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
OK, I resist change just like everyone else. But that's not what is going on here.
Monitors are getting bigger. I'm doing more things at once. I want better ways of managing that. But Metro just gives me one thing at a time. Sorry, that's not a solution to the problem. That's going back to the original Macintosh.
Apple isn't perfect, but at least they've been trying some new ideas. I don't think the new ideas on screen management have been all that successful, but at least they're attacking the right problem.
At the moment, nobody has a better idea for a smart phone or a tablet than to show one app at a time. The only way W8 makes sense is if they're adding a piece for portable devices, and said "while we're at it, let's let desktop guys use it too." Fine. But only if they realize that the desktop systems still need new ideas as well. And if I were doing a ground-up redesign, I'd consider whether we might be ready for a better approach with tablets as well. The new iPad has more pixels than many monitors. I'm not sure one app at a time should be the only way to use it.
The problem is
it is devoid of functionality and reeks of lets make everything stupid. ideology that has become the keystone of this decade.
yes these words are polarizing but the whole interface is polarizing. im not just talking windows here im talking all smart devices and its "thinking behind its poor design"
remove functionality .
remove options.
apply bare minimum usability.
when you come from robust desktop apps that give the users control of their programs , it is a slap in the face to use a so called smart app. and if you want to close the app ? forget it buddy the all knowing software engineer has removed the "confusing" close app functionality and gently suspends the application in the back ground . so if it glitches, it remains glitched until you reboot the device .
We have taken leaps backwards in the progress made in user interface in the last 20 years . instead of having things available to you with a few short clicks you are now bombarded with hundreds of lil shiny buttons across multiple virtual desktops that you have to examine to see what they are . (oh press the wrong one no problem well just suspend it into the background until you need it again !!)
Also the new interfaces are designed with the mindset that are to be only presented not used . so screw copy, screw paste, screw edit, and screw select all you dont need it !! just look at the pretty pictures and post your short expressions of glee on facebook.
so yeah dont expect those of us who actually use our computers be enamored with a another dumb user interface . just because it is touch touchy touchy does not mean it is gaining more functionality . in fact in most cases we are loosing a majority of progress that was made in application useability .
Music the Paint dancefloor the canvas your body the brush
Developers are end-users too. Far smarter & more capable ones.
If there are no on screen visuals I'm lost.
This is very true. It's a problem with a lot of touch-centric UIs: There are no onscreen hints or anything to explain to you how to use the UI.
Anyone who has ever used a word processor can sit down with Microsoft Word and write a letter. There will probably be things you don't know how to do, so you'll end up searching the Ribbon to find them. But that's just it -- you can find them. There will be icons there and the icons will have labels that say things like "Insert Date/Time."
Metro, on the other hand, has a few clever icons, but they don't necessarily mean anything to someone who has never seen them before. Some of the other functions involve gestures or moving the cursor to just the right part of the screen to activate a feature. I found I had to stumble around awhile before I knew how some of the most basic navigational controls worked.
Note: I didn't say search around, as you'd have to do with the Ribbon. I said stumble around, meaning I had to try mouse movements and push icons without knowing what they were actually going to do. Inevitably that meant I'd end up activating controls I hadn't meant to. I might luck out and find the thing I want, or I might immediately think "Undo, Undo, Undo" ... but of course, Undo might have been the thing I was looking for in the first place. This is a lousy way to learn a UI. It's a step back from what we've grown accustomed to.
Breakfast served all day!
The MS formula seems to be to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator. Never mind that the product requires, not a learning curve, but a re-learning curve. Then hide all the bloat and nonsense under a ton of worthless animation and graphics crap.
As someone who's old eyes would appreciate some assistance, I find the default color schemes in new MS products to be insane. and the use of the smallest possible font is less than helpful. Perhaps they think I look forward to reconfiguring everything for the Nth time.
I never thought I'd adopt Libre Office until I was forced to use a machine with Office 2010. Now I never leave home without a USB flash drive loaded with Libre Office for document creation. I'm sure the Ribbon must be great fun to learn, but I have real work to do. Libre Office has saved me days of screwing around. And after I got done laughing at my first exposure to Windows 7, Linux sure looks great!
..and absolutely great
At my job I'm already working with Win8 a little, and I don't think it's so damned great. It holds your hand like you're a silly child and hides even more from you than any version of Windows I've ever seen. I suppose if you're looking for the OS for the most dumbed-down generation ever then it's great, but for those of us who want something functional and powerful, I think it's a huge flop.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
I'm really trying to work with this. Other than Metro, Windows 8 isn't bad. It's actually a marked improvement over Windows 7. The biggest change is the number of windows I can manage and keep open with 4 gigs of RAM. Memory seems to be cycling by itself with no third party software, registry hacks, or manual optimization. Silverlight is better on my 2gb Gforce card. Netflix is clean, and looking great. On Windows 7, the picture was muddier. So in terms of the things I care about (lots of open windows and netflix) Windows 8 is a boom.
What I'm not impressed with is the way Metro is locked down. I downloaded Visual Studio 11 beta so I could start writing Metro apps, and was immediately reminded that Microsoft will be approving any and all Metro apps, but they're letting me run my own stuff out of the kindness of their ever loving little hearts. That annoyed me, and it made me question my motivation for wanting to write Metro apps in the first place.
I mean, I can write an Android app today, compile it into an APK, and it'll run on any Android device within the scheme I compile for. Google doesn't and shouldn't care about the apps I write, and I like it that way. I don't really see the point of building something in the first place when someone who has nothing to do with anything can control my ability to publish it. If there's any chance of rejection at all, why should I bother to begin with?
I'm not learning new platforms because I like new platforms (well, I am, kina), I'm doing it because I want to have viable programs that I can do things with.
Screwing with my ability to publish my work is not a way to launch a new product.
I'm sorry. It's totally unacceptable.
But are you retarded? You can't remember the name of something but you can recognize thousands of icons designed for 16x16 display?
You don't have to be retarded to be slowed down by a less-than-optimal interface. Every brain cycle you have to burn figuring out a sub-optimal GUI is one less brain cycle available for actually getting your work done.
Little things like this might seem trivial, and they are, but the cumulative effect can build up to the point where your productivity is significantly less than it could have been.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
This seems like the spot to include a link to this video:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/13143801/pc-and-mac-pawz
You have over 1000 shortcuts? Why? How could you possibly be so disorganized?
And it TALKS (My God, it talks!) but that's about ALL "your type" is good for, you waste of space. Fucking useless leeches the lot of you.
Build in PDF reader, email should not be full screen metro apps.
" Maybe they're not artists, and maybe the UIs they built weren't "pretty" (a.k.a full of curved corners and gradients)," - by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 09, @06:45PM (#39307359)
For instance/example: I am a huge fan of Borland Delphi. It's got toolkits (like Orpheus) that add the "off-the-wall" non-std. 'pretty' type interface widget tools.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tporpheus/
I am VERY glad I took a look in fact, because THIS one? It rocks... & it used to be "pay for ware" but now?? Well, it appears to be OPEN SOURCE apparently (way cool!).
APK
P.S.=> And, there you are - PROOF, that "pretty" isn't the province of 'designer' goofs, because yes, imo? If that's ALL YOU DO in programmatic development?? That's all you are, point-blank (and a CHILD can do that much!)... apk
You're a useless wannabe who has never coded an app in his life: Fuckface - quit talking out your useless leech ass and shut the FUCK up! Any smart developer does exactly that, but then, you're no developer and you wouldn't even have the slightest clue, you talk-a-lot but done zero fuck.
Am I the only one that can't stand the Metro UI on any device? Frankly, you could pay me to use it.
Wow, this is like a full dinner of pure hate. I don't get it, really.
What is all the noise with the touchscreens? Don't want it? Don't buy one. I certainly wont. That simple. A mouse will work as it always does.
As I see it, Windows8 does bring an interface that is good for tablets, but from the desktop point of view, this is what I read:
- We'll make it easy to use things full screen (nice, I always do, I personally hate moving windows around, re-sizing them, etc.)
- If you need to see two things at the time, you can and we'll put a nice separator that will allow you to resize both at the same time.
- We'll make the menu use the whole screen, and you can customize it much more, even placing other things in it that you might want to look at from time to time.
- We don't think you need to have some artificial place behind everything, so we'll be done with this desktop analogy (fine by me, as a avoid at all costs having things there that end up being just a huge mess full of icons for most people, to a point that I don't use it at all). - But hey, if you really like it, we'll keep that desktop working for you.
The whole things seems to me to be moving away from moving windows and more into full-screen and/or docks, much as IDEs, Photoshop and many other programs have been doings with much improvement of user experience IMHO.
Now, the main thing is that there is no universal user interface that will be best for absolutely everybody. So they provide options but they don't stagnate trying to go forth with newer ideas. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Sure, they might not get if 100% right right away, but that's way better than total stagnation.
For an academy award by the screen actors guild for the worst acting job possible: Talking out your ass and never having done the job yourself, you utterly stupid wannabe. When you have actually DONE THE JOB? Then, you can talk and you will have actually gained the right to. Until then shitskull?? Talking out your ass is all what you do amounts to. You remind me of the useless managers out there who have never written a line of code in their lives and are just wastes of payroll and life.
Aha, yet another complete douchebag moron that thinks he knows how the job actually works! Hilarious. Utterly fucking hilarious, you talk out your ass fuckbrain. Talk, talk, talk, but that's ALL you're good for. You're one of the leeches out there that "talks a lot" but hasn't done shit, you know it, I know it, everyone reading here knows it. Go away you waste of food, air, and water. One thing everyone hates is a jackass like you that talks out his asshole and yet has never done the job in question. You're pitiful.
Documented facts come from those places, they use them. Plenty of people do. So, what's your point? With that said, You're really showing us you have no intellect to be "discerning" with in the first place. In fact I have seen those two (apk n hairyfeet) have "had it out" here a few times in fact. Was funny even. Now they get along but they didn't for years here. You're all wrong.
I said I'd never goto Win7, but using it now as the games I play use DX11.
I use the run command or CMD window more than non desktop Icons, so can't see sliding blocks around to get somewhere.
I'm an old Amgia user who purchased a 500, 2000, and 3000 to play games with (gasp!).
I also ran an 8 line chat board (Cnet software) while playing those games. That's the type of system I like.
I like the PC games over console games. The bottom line for me is I'll go where the games go
and hope I have the same versatility and abilities on the PC as I have now.
Metro on the desktop is unbelievably terrible, dreadful and a highly perverted way of insulting all human beings.
Someone should probably get their head chopped off in Redmond and be dcpromo'ed to a pissoir.
The fact that mobiles and pads requires other interfaces and new idead DOES NOT imply that desktops need to follow. What mindless creature produced this idea? I want the name of the species, or name of the individual if applicable. Metro is worse than satanism.
I see I'm typing to an idiot. However,hopefully even your pea brain can understand this... The very first sentence of every Secunia reports explicitly states that the reports can't be used to compare the relative security of competing products. Yet that's what API/hairyfeet does every time he brings them up. It is intellectual dishonesty and childish. If you don't believe me, read the reports yourself. They are freely available from secunia.com. Don't let agenda get in the way of facts. That's what makes API/hf so annoying. I don't mind fan boy bullshit or Linux hate or whatever else. It is the blatant disregard for the truth that is the issue. Not that you care of course;-)
So if majority folks at Slashdot use Linux, why worry for how and why Microsoft designed Win 8 the way it is? For Slashdoters anything that Microsoft does is wrong anyways. On the second hand, from Microsoft perspective it all makes very much sense. The UI will help it get consumer share, especially on Tablet while backward compatibility to Win7 applications will help people upgrade x86 without at hitch. Metro essentially is just a new replacement for start menu for tranditional desktop folks and everyone will get used to it after few hours of use. The default Metro will help developers write applications in WinFX, which Microsoft anyways want to steer folks in the longer run. In terms of the UI, Metro is way better than static grid lock of current touch UI's in place. So looking from other viewpoint, it seems to be the best strategy for Microsoft.
I agree! These failed designers are ruining the UIs, just like these kids who think they are "athletes" are ruining my lawn by playing ball on it.
Around the time that Firefox 3 came out I had a perfectly manicured lawn that I invested good time and money into. But by the time FF 4, my whole lawn had been trampled and matted by these lousy kids.
The only appropriate thing to do is shake your fist at these people. No matter what they are doing, shake your fists at them and tell them to get off your lawn. Don't let them on your lawn or in your yard at all, especially when your lawn is impacted.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
Win8 = steaming pile/ about to bomb bigger than WinME. Hope M$ employees have their party hats on.
Funny part is that android, a linux that finally has the lions share of market on smartphones, shows everyone just how 'secure' Linux really is (it's not. Not anymore than any other Operating System). I don't need secunia to point that blatantly obvious fact out. Again, it's obvious that both apk or hairyfeet have gotten the best of you before and your stalking them by ac replies? Pitiful. You're showing anyone reading here who the idiot is (you). Above all else, if Linux is "so good" (even though you're dragging this off topic like trolls such as yourself are wont to do), how come its in dead last place on PC's and Servers combined then, hmmm?
Windows 8 = Vista
I installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview (64-bit) yesterday on a work computer.
It's *extremely weird* not having the Start Menu in the desktop. I'm lost when I want to open a new application. To me, having to pull up Metro to open up an application is an uncomfortable context switch. I disagree with Microsoft seemingly expecting me to have to use Metro to launch Desktop apps at this time.
Wikipedia has screen shots from Windows Server 8 - and they use Metro there as well. Metro seems to work fine over RDP - but really, I cannot imagine being anything but annoyed by Metro in this situation.
The Metro Apps are in C:\Program Files\WindowsApps - a folder that to gain access to through the Desktop, you need to take ownership of it. After you get in, you can access the .exe's of the Metro apps, but they will not launch from the Desktop (says it can only run from an "App Container").
I like the design and the way Metro apps look. It's a very nice clean visual style.
What I don't get is the obsession for "search" in new desktops. Must I now use search to find my apps too?
I never use the file search tools either, as my files are nicely enough organized in directories. Well, maybe the unix "find" command is nice sometimes.
You're not only off topic, but name tossing ad hominem attacks are illogical. Seems I have gotten your goat pretty easily, just judging by your foaming at the mouth rants here. Why are you avoiding answering questions also? Is it because you know you're beaten to shit on them and 'cat got your tongue' suddenly? lmao, not. Funny you won't answer the question asked of you: If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to out-reason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period).
If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). Thanks for being an amusing clown. I would say by how simple you are to corner you're actually trying to make apk or hairyfeet look good here. Your name tossing to top that off as well as your being completely off topic as well is just icing on the cake. Eat it boy, lol, after all - you made it, lol!
you need to put the crack pipe down, friend. the guy is walking up one side of you and down the other and all you're doing is backpedaling. you've lost this round. deal.
You've avoided 2 simple questions 12x now: If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). Thanks for being an amusing clown and you do one hell of a job making apk or hairyfeet look good, I'll give you that.
He makes it simple to do. Sorry I directed the 2 questions at you, I thought you were the ac trolling stalker again. Thanks for telling us your thoughts on this troll. He's always the same (avoids questions that floor him, name tossing, and other off topic stupidity). He loses every round, hence his stalking ac trolling\harassing off topic out of 'geek angst'.
1 for tablets / touch - the other for desktops.
Microsoft has a lot to lose if they force Metro as it is right now on desktop users. There are a lot of devs out there that will look at another OS to do their work if they're force to "work" in Metro. And without the devs.... well - we know what happens then.
Dumbass I was talking to you
It's an entertainment device. Look at what's in the example tiles. They're all either entertainment, shopping, or ads. Those are all output-mostly applications. It's a boob tube for the desktop.
You've avoided 2 simple questions 12x now: If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). Thanks for being an amusing clown and you do one hell of a job making apk or hairyfeet look good, I'll give you that.
Only person going batshit's you in name calling, running from 2 questions (that will totally clean your clock if you try hence why you avoid them), and being off topic plus stalking others out of geek angst. Naming apk or hairyfeet only shows that the 2 windows fans here (of many) routinely blow away weak penguins like yourself with ease. It's not difficult. Facts do you in. So much so you resort to stalking them like some woman might, lol. Doesn't take much of a man to act like some terrorist cowards do and you certainly show that in your pitiful replies In fact, between Linux being hacked into in its sourcecode repositories, Android (a linux variant) being torn up daily where it can no longer hide behind lack of usage\security-by-obscurity, it's no small wonder it's in last place, and that the "year of Linux" will be on the 12th of never and when the clock strikes 13, lol (and I don't mean military time). It's funny watching apk or hairyfeet (one or the other) make you resort to acting like a geek angst ridden wannabe because you can't compete with either of them. Naming them and stalking them shows us all that much.
You've avoided 2 simple questions 14x now: If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). Thanks for being an amusing clown and you do one hell of a job making apk or hairyfeet look good, I'll give you that.
You don't make me mad. A fool like you can't do that
You are letting us see you sweat more, and see subject-line above: You even stating the above? Projection to the max.
To answer your question, first? I know how to utilize BGP to my advantage (Border Gateway Protocol), something a noob Penguin like yourself has NO CLUE on obviously, lol!
Also, see subject above. Running from 2 simple questions 14x now isn't looking good for you either, lol! I'll ask them once again, and watch you floor yourself by running away as you have 14x, along with being off topic and tossing names out of geek angst frustration (your ac stalking hairyfeet and apk only shows that moreso): If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). Thanks for being an amusing clown and you do one hell of a job making apk or hairyfeet look good, I'll give you that. Penguins like you make those 2 look like geniuses around here.
To answer your last question, since you're too weak in computers obviously? He's more skilled than you are. Then again, how much skill does it take to outwit and outsmart a penguin? Not much, just 2 questions, lol, and here they are again: If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). Thanks for being an amusing clown and you do one hell of a job making apk or hairyfeet look good, I'll give you that.
Answer that also (of course, you won't, because he never did) and you are running from 2 simple questions (posted for the 21st time below no less, lol):
1.) If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then?
2.) If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into & there's been others too this year alone!
(Proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)).
Yes - You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period).
Fact is, I believe you've run from these questions about 10x by now.
Why is that?
Oh, we know - defeated cowardly ac trolling and stalking pro-penguin trolls always do and resort to their last resort: Off topic b.s., illogical name tossing, and just in general being beaten to shit easily due to lack of intelligence. You exemplify this perfectly in fact, no doubt about it.
Bottom-line here is this: He's shown he can outfox not only yourself, but the unfair restriction system on AC posters here with fast high tech methods which are obviously way, Way, WAY over your head too!
Thanks for being such an amusing clown.
He knows more than you do about computing so calling HIM dumb
Who do you think you're kidding? He? Him? Do you have a mouse in your pocket apk? You are mentally ill and you need help. Seriously, trolling on the internet is not therapy I don't care what you read on webmd. And I know your little tiny brain can't grasp a concept so complex as a fucking clock but at 10:25 I made the point about you citing secunia reports and misrepresenting them. After which point you started asking your questions about Linux and Android. Admittedly in the mind of child such as yourself, nobody else's questions matter even if they asked first but it's time to be grown up now. If you want a real debate I'm more than happy to give you one but first you have to man up and answer my question. Check the time stamps on the posts and you will see that I asked first. The question is, why did you misrepresent the secunia reports when it says on their site 1170 times not to compare competitors products in that way using their reports. Answer the question, chicken.
Give up already. He's thumping you with ease.
A. I didn't see him use secunia here at all. If he did, show us where in this exchange?
B. However, I do see him asking 2 simple questions you run from like a scared girl!
C. He isn't stalking and trolling you, but you are doing that to hairyfeet\apk, without question.
D. He knows ways to burn the system here easily and swiftly and with methods you are lost in the sauce clueless on.
E. Your name tossing is why he's calling you the "projectionist" because you're so unintelligent you don't realize that you're giving away your own faults, and yes, you did start the name tossing out of "geek angst" here (so he is free to bust your nuts at will now on that account if he wishes, tit-for-tat, except he's right on it, you're not).
I'll say one thing: You do make hairyfeet\apk look good.
He knows more than you do about computing so calling HIM dumb, when YOU are forced to ask questions on how he outposts yourself, even registerd lusers, and blows off the puny restrictions here (and elsewhere)?
Maybe some people have better things to do than go here and recycle open proxies with this. Get a life and stop being so full of yourself. If you think you're somehow "l33t" because you can operate a web browser and click some buttons you are more pathetic than I could have imagined. :-*
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
I don't see him asking YOU how to outfox the system here vs. ac restrictions and in ways that are fast, and are above your head (and the slow methods you try like proxies). You think he uses hosts for that? You're really truly dumb. That makes you look VERY dumb! That, and your illogical name tossing, your avoiding 2 simple questions (posted again below for shits & giggles because you won't answer & run from them). If it's APK you're replying to also? Hahaha, the day you've done 1/10th of what he has in computing before you got out of diapers I suspect is the day the "ac stalking/trolling likes of you" (pitiful, like some wench that's been kicked to the curb, lol) can even begin to talk. Question time again kids! SEE PENGUIN RUN: If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). As to the subject line above, I believe you've run from these questions about 10x by now. Why is that? Oh, we know - defeated cowardly ac trolling and stalking pro-penguin trolls always do and resort to their last resort: Off topic b.s., illogical name tossing, and just in general being beaten to shit easily due to lack of intelligence. You exemplify this perfectly in fact, no doubt about it. Thanks for being such an amusing clown avoiding those 2 questions (and they sure aren't secunia stats, in fact, show us where he used those in this exchange? Clue - he hasn't. Either you're stupid, or you're full of it, either way? U FAIL!)
Seems like everyone is focusing on metro on the desktop, and letting one message have a free ride. All these propaganda pieces for Windows 8 mention as if it were true that "Metro is great". Well, it isn't. It is a fugly, garish, blocky, clumsy interface. Windows Phone is such a failure that the only reason it still has a presence is because Microsoft owns Nokia's CEO. Even so, last year Nokia sold 3 N9s for each Lumia!
Almost seems like Microsoft plan is to step down, make Metro on the desktop optional, and get the desktop back in the release version; by then the message "Metro is great for phones and tablets" might have passed unchallenged in the middle of the propaganda storm.
"How do you do it hypocrite? Multiple accounts? Proxies? Your fucking batshit host file?" - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
He told you: BGP utilization - now, the question: TELL US HOW HE DOES IT smartguy?
(Now THIS? This is going to be CLASSIC amusement! He'll run from showing us his outright ignorance of that method... lol, guaranteed!)
---
"And unlike you I have only one account so Slash dot will only let me post so many times an hour." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
LMAO - Oh, really? I didn't know they had any registered LUSER accounts called "anonymous coward", lol... proof that you don't have the BALLS or the SKILLS to try take apk or hairyfeet on (I think it's APK actually).
I'm not letting you go, apk." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
Ah, yes, lol... more "stalkerish" words have NEVER been spoken!
P.S.=> Answer these 2 questions, won't you? You'[ve avoided them 25x already (In addition to failing to show us where he has used secunia stats here, he hasn't, though YOU said he has? I can't find that here.. quit lying!):
See Penguin Run:
I don't see him asking YOU how to outfox the system here vs. ac restrictions and in ways that are fast, and are above your head (and the slow methods you try like proxies). You think he uses hosts for that? You're really truly dumb. That makes you look VERY dumb! That, and your illogical name tossing, your avoiding 2 simple questions (posted again below for shits & giggles because you won't answer & run from them). If it's APK you're replying to also? Hahaha, the day you've done 1/10th of what he has in computing before you got out of diapers I suspect is the day the "ac stalking/trolling likes of you" (pitiful, like some wench that's been kicked to the curb, lol) can even begin to talk. Question time again kids! SEE PENGUIN RUN: If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then? If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). As to the subject line above, I believe you've run from these questions about 25x++ by now.
Why is that? Oh, we know - defeated cowardly ac trolling and stalking pro-penguin trolls always do and resort to their last resort: Off topic b.s., illogical name tossing, and just in general being beaten to shit easily due to lack of intelligence. You exemplify this perfectly in fact, no doubt about it.
Thanks for being such an amusing clown avoiding those 2 questions (and they sure aren't secunia stats, in fact, show us where he used those in this exchange? Clue - he hasn't. Either you're stupid, or you're full of it, either way? U FAIL!)
Have you noticed that some banks present a picture for you to verify after giving your user name but before you enter your password? That is because our brains are wired to recognize visual patterns very well. Hence recognizing an icon while not being able to remember the name is very likely to happen.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
WRONG! I use no proxies, don't have to (too slow, too many are "FED" operated too, not that I do any wrong online, & in fact? QUITE the opposite).
That method? It's FAR faster than using proxies & other methods!
NOW:
I'd like you to "show your smarts" (instead of your ac trolling "count stalkula" b.s., lol) & tell us HOW I do it... go for it!
This? This is going to be CLASSIC watching you "fumble" over it, because I'd wager MAYBE 1% of people here IF THAT, actually KNOW how it's done...
You've also given away for the 2nd time now that you're the ac stalker of apk and hairyfeet. Get over it, they know more than you do by a LONG mile in computing (especially apk). He makes mincemeat outta you penguin noobs so much, and "injures your 'geek angst'" so easily, it's hilarious. Every damned time, lol!
Ahahahahah, "oakgoof"... lol! Ur gonna make him look stupid again apk.
You like that? Hehe, I do too, fits him perfectly. I guarantee "oakgoof" (LOL) is busily GOOGLING now, guaranteed, on BGP!
Best part is? He will NOT find it... you have to figure it out yourself, and I have not seen anyone else do it in fact (not a first for me, I've done that in coding and networking more than a few times, right into publication and trade shows).
Hehehe, picture this/envision him furiously googling because that's all this no-mind generation out there does, they didn't learn the HARD way via education/schooling or professional work, hence his "SLOW REPLY RATE" suddenly (not).!
Hey- IF he did know his stuff and especially on that, because as I said? Only MAYBE 1% of people KNOW how to use it, and that's less on SLASHDOUCHE with these Penguin noobz!
If he was my peer? I could tell & would treat him with respect as a peer - he's clearly not, and stalks/trolls by AC replies (which he busted himself in yet again above, lol, stalking me as AC out of his "geek angst"). I don[t even take PRIDE in flooring the "likes of him", too easy - I do with guys like PhD Dr. Mark Russinovich (I've corrected his code before & BLEW HIM AWAY @ Windows IT Pro in fact)
Yes... he won't find it, you have to figure it out yourself but... once you do? NO stopping you.
"OakGoof"? LOL, no way. He's too dumb. Again, in fact, I doubt even 1% of the 'slashdouche penguin dolt noobz' know now... if that.
Not only were you caught stalking by ac posts, but you ran from a technical question, answer it 'smart guy', lol http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2717169&cid=39310043 ("see penguin noob run" everyone, lol, BIG amusement).
It's not the UI.
It's the way MS treats its users. The main difference between MS (who couldn't get rid of the "Start" menu for close to 15 years even though their final user testing prior to launching windows 95 revealed that it was a horrible, broken idea) and Apple (who can seemingly come up with a new paradigm for the iPhone/iPad and have it accepted) is in how they think.
MS thinks like developers. So when they have an idea they like, they force it on the users. And if the users don't accept it, they force it some more.
Apple thinks like designers. If they have an idea, they test it out and refine it until the users love it.
And that's why this would have worked if the one Steve had come up with the idea, but it'll be an epic fail in the hands of the other Steve.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I'm not an Apple fan but this is typical MS mindthink. If Redmond thinks its good and the public is wary of the jarring experience, they'll just tell you to accept change. The change is for the better. Whether you hate it or not (Ribbon interface anyone).
When Apple release's a new OS (say the Iphone IOS), they never sold it by forcing it on people and saying accept change. People actually really liked the way it looked and worked. They bought it because they liked it.
Microsoft has to realize they are not the dominant force they use to be. I like that they are trying something new, but do it so I look at the desktop OS and go wow. Don't tell me I have to accept change even if there are things about it that suck.
"How do you do it hypocrite? Multiple accounts? Proxies? Your fucking batshit host file?" - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
He told you: BGP utilization - now, the question: TELL US HOW HE DOES IT smartguy?
(Now THIS? This is going to be CLASSIC amusement! He'll run from showing us his outright ignorance of that method... lol, guaranteed!)
I don't see him asking YOU how to outfox the system here vs. ac restrictions and in ways that are fast, and are above your head (and the slow methods you try like proxies).
You think he uses hosts for that? You're really truly dumb. That makes you look VERY dumb!
That, and your illogical name tossing, your avoiding 2 simple questions (posted again below for shits & giggles because you won't answer & run from them).
If it's APK you're replying to also?
Hahaha, the day you've done 1/10th of what he has in computing before you got out of diapers I suspect is the day the "ac stalking/trolling likes of you" (pitiful, like some wench that's been kicked to the curb, lol) can even begin to talk.
---
"And unlike you I have only one account so Slash dot will only let me post so many times an hour." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
LMAO - Oh, really? I didn't know they had any registered LUSER accounts called "anonymous coward", lol... proof that you don't have the BALLS or the SKILLS to try take apk or hairyfeet on (I think it's APK actually).
---
I'm not letting you go, apk." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
Ah, yes, lol... more "stalkerish" words have NEVER been spoken!
P.S.=> Answer these 2 questions, won't you? You'[ve avoided them 25x already (In addition to failing to show us where he has used secunia stats here, he hasn't, though YOU said he has? I can't find that here.. quit lying!):
Question time again kids!
SEE PENGUIN RUN:
1.) If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then?
2.) If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)). You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). As to the subject line above, I believe you've run from these questions about 25x++ by now.
Why is that? Oh, we know - defeated cowardly ac trolling and stalking pro-penguin trolls always do and resort to their last resort: Off topic b.s., illogical name tossing, and just in general being beaten to shit easily due to lack of intelligence. You exemplify this perfectly in fact, no doubt about it.
Thanks for being such an amusing clown avoiding those 2 questions (and they sure aren't secunia stats, in fact, show us where he used those in this exchange? Clue - he hasn't. Either you're stupid, or you're full of it, either way? U FAIL!)
"How do you do it hypocrite? Multiple accounts? Proxies? Your fucking batshit host file?" - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
He told you: BGP utilization - now, the question: TELL US HOW HE DOES IT smartguy?
(Now THIS? This is going to be CLASSIC amusement! He'll run from showing us his outright ignorance of that method... lol, guaranteed!)
I don't see him asking YOU how to outfox the system here vs. ac restrictions and in ways that are fast, and are above your head (and the slow methods you try like proxies). You think he uses hosts for that? You're really truly dumb. That makes you look VERY dumb! That, and your illogical name tossing, your avoiding 2 simple questions (posted again below for shits & giggles because you won't answer & run from them). If it's APK you're replying to also? Hahaha, the day you've done 1/10th of what he has in computing before you got out of diapers I suspect is the day the "ac stalking/trolling likes of you" (pitiful, like some wench that's been kicked to the curb, lol) can even begin to talk.
---
"And unlike you I have only one account so Slash dot will only let me post so many times an hour." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
LMAO - Oh, really? I didn't know they had any registered LUSER accounts called "anonymous coward", lol... proof that you don't have the BALLS or the SKILLS to try take apk or hairyfeet on (I think it's APK actually).
I'm not letting you go, apk." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
Ah, yes, lol... more "stalkerish" words have NEVER been spoken!
P.S.=> Answer these 2 questions, won't you? You'[ve avoided them 25x already (In addition to failing to show us where he has used secunia stats here, he hasn't, though YOU said he has? I can't find that here.. quit lying!):
Question time again kids!
SEE PENGUIN RUN:
1.) If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then?
2.) If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)).
You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). As to the subject line above, I believe you've run from these questions about 25x++ by now.
Why is that? Oh, we know - defeated cowardly ac trolling and stalking pro-penguin trolls always do and resort to their last resort: Off topic b.s., illogical name tossing, and just in general being beaten to shit easily due to lack of intelligence. You exemplify this perfectly in fact, no doubt about it.
Thanks for being such an amusing clown avoiding those 2 questions (and they sure aren't secunia stats, in fact, show us where he used those in this exchange? Clue - he hasn't. Either you're stupid, or you're full of it, either way? U FAIL!)
Holy crap, are you stupid: You seem to see him fine (and run away) and reply to him - who're you trying to fool now, oakgoof?
WITNESS "OAKGOOF" the AC stalker @ his "finest" (lol, finest 'bust' trolling/stalking apk & hairyfeet as he always does outta 'geek angst' @ being shown as dime-a-dozen STUPID, lol, is more like it, shown below):
"How do you do it hypocrite? Multiple accounts? Proxies? Your fucking batshit host file?" - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
He told you: BGP utilization - now, the question: TELL US HOW HE DOES IT smartguy?
(Now THIS? This is going to be CLASSIC amusement! He'll run from showing us his outright ignorance of that method... lol, guaranteed!)
I don't see him asking YOU how to outfox the system here vs. ac restrictions and in ways that are fast, and are above your head (and the slow methods you try like proxies). You think he uses hosts for that? You're really truly dumb. That makes you look VERY dumb! That, and your illogical name tossing, your avoiding 2 simple questions (posted again below for shits & giggles because you won't answer & run from them). If it's APK you're replying to also? Hahaha, the day you've done 1/10th of what he has in computing before you got out of diapers I suspect is the day the "ac stalking/trolling likes of you" (pitiful, like some wench that's been kicked to the curb, lol) can even begin to talk.
---
"And unlike you I have only one account so Slash dot will only let me post so many times an hour." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
LMAO - Oh, really? I didn't know they had any registered LUSER accounts called "anonymous coward", lol... proof that you don't have the BALLS or the SKILLS to try take apk or hairyfeet on (I think it's APK actually).
I'm not letting you go, apk." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10, @01:27AM (#39309779)
Ah, yes, lol... more "stalkerish" words have NEVER been spoken!
P.S.=> Answer these 2 questions, won't you? You'[ve avoided them 25x already (In addition to failing to show us where he has used secunia stats here, he hasn't, though YOU said he has? I can't find that here.. quit lying!):
Question time again kids!
SEE PENGUIN RUN:
1.) If linux is so great, why then is it in dead last place in the big 3 Operating Systems on PC's + Servers combined then?
2.) If Linux is so 'secure', how come android, a linux variant that finally has a majority share of market on its platform in smartphones is being daily shown to be anything BUT secure?? (Now - talk about misrepresenting facts: That's been the 'std. penguin FUD mantra' here for more than a decade now of "Linux is secure", and that's rather swiftly falling apart due to kernel.org being hacked into (proving penguins can't even keep their source repositories secure, lol, and who knows WHAT has been 'planted' into linux because of that)).
You are providing amusement galore because you are very easy to outreason, and your name tossing ad hominem attack attempts are illogical (as well as your off topic b.s. period). As to the subject line above, I believe you've run from these questions about 25x++ by now.
Why is that? Oh, we know - defeated cowardly ac trolling and stalking pro-penguin trolls always do and resort to their last resort: Off topic b.s., illogical name tossing, and just in general being beaten to shit easily due to lack of intelligence. You exemplify this perfectly in fact, no doubt about it.
Thanks for being such an amusing clown avoiding those 2 questions (and they sure aren't secunia stats, in fact, show us where he used those in this exchange? Clue - he hasn't. Either you're stupid, or you're full of it, either way? U FAIL!)
Have you noticed that some banks present a picture for you to verify after giving your user name but before you enter your password? That is because our brains are wired to recognize visual patterns very well. Hence recognizing an icon while not being able to remember the name is very likely to happen.
No it isn't, you clown. That picture is there so you can verify you're not logging in to a phishing site. It's not a username or password reminder.
But are you retarded? You can't remember the name of something but you can recognize thousands of icons designed for 16x16 display?
You don't have to be retarded to be slowed down by a less-than-optimal interface. Every brain cycle you have to burn figuring out a sub-optimal GUI is one less brain cycle available for actually getting your work done.
Little things like this might seem trivial, and they are, but the cumulative effect can build up to the point where your productivity is significantly less than it could have been.
Is this retard day?
Instead of figuring out the suboptimal GUI, just start typing the name of the thing you want.
The only way Metro will work is if they made a "Customize your Metro" feature like they finally did for Office 2010's Ribbon. And I mean "Customize".
I have sixty five things on my desktop, many of them folders with sixty more things each in them. That's what a desktop is to me. So if Metro has the Office 2010's thematic "select from ALL items on your ENTIRE computer to put on your desktop", then okay. But as long as it's a dumb 10 items that MS picks, 8 of which I don't use, then it's Fail.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Anyone who has ever used a word processor can sit down with Microsoft Word and write a letter. There will probably be things you don't know how to do, so you'll end up searching the Ribbon to find them. But that's just it -- you can find them.
Find undo.
I still haven't moved off XP either.
I have lots of hobby apps that I'm not sure are being developed anymore, so even if Win7 scrapesby and loads them, I'm suspicious of Win8 Metro.
But you know what the bigger problem is? Something half-baked about Metro feels like all the other half-baked MS pushes:
PlaysForSure -> Zune -> nothing,
____ -> Windows Live -> Nothing,
Windows Mobile -> Windows Phone 7 -> Something.
I saved my time and mental energy skipping all of those, because they would have left me as a user (not a consumer!) in the lurch with an abused loyalty.
So a long time ago (about 2006) I had a friend build me a rock solid XP machine hopefully sturdy enough to last another five years until all this hoopla shakes out. It's 50 50 if Metro becomes the next Vista. Or at least if they get the concept right in Windows 9/Something, then that's FOUR generations of info to see where the landscape is going, and then make an intelligent migration decision. But not now. It's "too hot", and it feels so wrong.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Every great Metro style app follows certain design principles that make it look more beautiful, feel more responsive, and behave more intuitively than a traditional desktop app.
There is something about this kind of language I never seem to get used to: it reads like an ad. Is the marketing department explaining how to use development tools now? Can I trust what they're telling me, or is it just a load of crap aimed at getting me hooked to their product? Invoking distrust is not a good way to make what they actually have to say come across.
For a better debugging experience, [...]
Excellent word for bullshit bingo, experience. I don't debug for the experience of debugging, I debug to solve bugs. Having good tools is important, but if the experience is all that counts I might as well go out and do something more enjoyable than debugging. It seems that anything software related primarily is an experience nowadays, as if getting something useful done is only secondary to that. Do these people after a day's experience get into their experience and experience home? Perhaps "smurf" is a better word.
It would be nice if Microsoft and many others would get their feet back on the ground and stop injecting hype language into everything. I've seen enough hypes about fancy gadgets and software in my life to know that the excitement they invoke is the same experience over and over again, after a while it stops being new and exciting. I haven't lost my capability for amazement and excitement, but it is more real and of highter quality if I get excited about the things I get excited about. That probably explains my growing resistance against people trying to decide for me what's exciting and against the kind of language they tend to use for that.
You always have the option to leave.
Open Word 2010. Left-to-right, top-to-bottom. Icon number 3. First is the Word icon. Second is File Save. Third? That is Undo. So AMAZINGLY difficult to find - literally the SECOND action shown in the window!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Really is it that hard for you to find? It's literally right next to the save icon.
Having to reach and touch stuff will suck. Arms will be tired. Touch stuff is fine for a tablet, much like those eraser-head mice were fine for a laptop if you were in a spot you could not conveniently use a mouse.
If you have a keyboard and mouse, I can't see touch being better in any way. I don't have a tablet, but friends do, and I get the "it's hard to type" complaint all the time. Mouse and keyboard are far superior, plain and simple. FOR LAPTOP and DESKTOP devices. A tablet makes do with touch, and it makes sense, because you want to be able to whip it out of a bag and just use it. You wouldn't want to be plugging mice and keyboards into it, and it would be too bulky to include them.
Tablets and laptops/desktops are two totally different animals, and should be treated as such.
You wouldn't put the engine and transmission from a compact car into a tractor trailer. Why would you put the OS from a phone/tablet into a laptop/desktop PC.
PS I hate finger prints on my laptop screen.
I don't need easier to use Office or Windows! The work "just fine" on a PC Desktop.
I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO USE THEM BETTER THAN 80-90%% OF YOUR USERS!
All you do is piss me off when I have to relearn what I already know how to use quite proficiently, thank you. All making the interfaces different does is make me want to use a competitor's product that I'd rather use because I don't despise their vendor lock-in and illegal monopolist business practices. Example, Windows 7 start menu. Is it a surprise that when you make the start menu less useful that people quit using it? The point of a menu is that the options are in the same place they usually are, because people navigate to "where the option was" instead of actually reading it.
In other words, All you're doing is: REMOVING BARRIERS OF ENTRY TO YOUR COMPETITORS. If I have to relearn something, why not learn something truly new and significantly cheaper, since my current knowledge is worth NOTHING.
Leave the desktop UI alone, because you're not going to grow your marketshare above the 90% or so it currently is, and make the tablet and phone UI optimized for their use. If you want to make "Metro launcher" to make a Virtualized session for Metro apps, go ahead.
I'm a massive Stardock fanboy, been a supporter or theirs for a long time. I've no worries that if MS fucks up and drops the ball someone, Stardock certainly and probably others, will pick it up.
However I'd rather they didn't. I don't want to be having to tell users to get 3rd party software to make their OS not suck. I don't want to have to customize an enterprise environment to be non-standard.
The thing is if MS makes it suck realistically what'll happen is people will just stick with Windows 7. Windows 8's largest competitor will be 7. 7 is a really good OS. It is solid, easy to use, and so on. People aren't sitting here going "Man I need a new OS, this one is crap," they are happy with what they have.
So Windows 8 needs to be better to woo people over. Now I think some of the ideas they had were better. As I said, the ability to run Metro apps is a great one. See an app on a phone you'd like on the desktop? No problem, just grab that shit from the store and it works. Brilliant. However if they fuck the interface up badly so people have to fight to use it, they'll give it a miss and stick with 7.
That makes me angry because supporting old versions of software sucks. Now while Windows 7 is still new, it'll create a 7 rut. People will decide 7 is the One True OS(tm) and refuse to upgrade. So 10 years later I'll be forcing people off of it because it is going out of support and Windows 9 or 10 or whatever WILL be a good OS but they won't want to change because they are convinced 7 was the last good OS EVAR.
That is the shit shit these days. I think I have to be the only person who isn't totally enamored with the idea and I still like it at work. I have only 1 big display at home, but 2 at work and 2 is the norm. EVERYONE at work has 2 (or sometimes more) displays. Our students, the secretaries, the accountants, everyone. It isn't a high end user thing, it is a normal thing. Getting normal at home too. Most of my friends run two displays, my mom runs two displays, etc.
Well what do you do with fullscreen apps and two monitors? I've yet to see their answer.
They just seem to be over focused on tablets and phones. Yes, I agree, it is a massive market and it is one to be in. However that doesn't mean fucking over the desktop/laptop market and trying to force it to be something it isn't. Smart devices are not going to kill the desktop/laptop market, just as they didn't kill the mainframe market (there are more mainframes in use now than when they were the only computers you could get). They'll eclipse them (if they haven't already) but not kill them.
It only takes a little bit of playing with a tablet or phone and trying to do real work, like actually type something out, to gain a real appreciation for a big screen and dedicated keyboard. Tablets are fine toys and there's nothing wrong with that but we aren't going to replace our desktops with them. That means we are going to need a good desktop OS to run them.
Here's a simple test for you: Take a pen or pencil in your hand, hold it out at arms length. See how long you can hold it before your arm gets real tired. My bet is less than a minute. It is nor natural or comfortable to hold your arms up in front of you (said test was something I'd have musicians do to see that being a conductor took practice too). I don't wanna hold my arms up to use a touchscreen. I want them on the keyboard.
Flip side of that is I don't want the monitor on the table. I don't want to have to hunch over to see what I'm done and have my hands in the way. I want to sit in a chair, head up, hands down, in a position that is comfortable and give me a good view of my work.
People seem to forget that touchscreens on phones and tablets are NOT because it is a better method of input. We've had touchscreens for decades. It is because there is little space. You need the screen to double as the input device so the input device isn't taking up more room. Fair enough, but when you DO have space, it is undesirable. If you have your mitts on the screen, you are blocking part of the screen.
That's why on smart phones we are always having to have the keyboard appear and disappear. When it is onscreen, there's little room to work to see the app. When it isn't you can't type. So you have to have it come in and out.
If you *need* to start typing to find a function in a GUI then your GUI design fucking sucks and you should go back to the drawing board.
Find "print". The first time I used Office 2007. I asked the sysadmin where it was and he didn't know either. He suggested using the old CTRL-P DOS shortcut. Undo is CTRL-Z. To this day I still use it and the other DOS shortcuts. The work on almost every program on any O/S and I don't have to keep learning new GUI's every day.
"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
It is because work implies creation. May not be something that's fun to create, you may be creating TPS report, but it implies making something. That is what tablets, or more generally touch screens, suck at: creation. Yes, yes, I know you can totally find this one article about this one use for them but in general they suck. So a tablet is good if you want to passively browse the web. However if you want to post to a site, a regular computer is better. A tablet is good if you want to just read e-mails, but the moment you want to reply, a regular computer is better. A tablet is a fine way to read a book, but if you want to write a book, you want a regular computer. A tablet if fine to watch a movie (though a TV is much better) but if you want to edit one, a computer is better.
The other side of that is of course that a computer is fine for all those things too. My computer works real well for passively surfing the web AND for writing things. So I might as well use it for both.
So it isn't just about people trying to work 24 hours a day. I sure as hell don't, I'm very much a "leave work at work" kind of guy. However I don't stop creating when I'm off work. I don't want to just be a passive lump the whole weekend. I don't want to say "Sorry I didn't respond to your e-mail Saturday, but my tablet isn't good for it so I waited until I was at work."
I'm not alone in this either. Job related work aside, people like to do other work and tablets tend to suck for it. Some people try to force it, for awhile at least, to convince themselves their expensive toy was necessary, but they end up using a regular computer in the end.
And I'd contrast it to other changes, that most people did like, which didn't require that. One would be the new task bar in Windows 7. When I saw it, I was angered. Stacking all the windows of a program in to one icon, no names, pinned icons? Grrrr.
Well I didn't have someone have to go off on a big rant as to why I should like it, I was just told "try it". So I did. And I did like it. Justification wasn't needed, so people didn't justify. They just said "Give it a shot, you'll probably like it."
When something is better that is how it goes. You don't have to try and come up with justifications, you just tell people "Give a a shot." Now of course you won't win 100% converts. Some people get set in their ways, or just have very different preferences. Fine, but the majority of people will be won over.
When you have to start justifying, you've lost.
Oh, gotcha. The application's toolbar is in the title bar now. I've never scanned those, as I've always just assumed that titlebar buttons control the window layout. For as many times as I've clicked the Office roundel in 2007, I'd never even noticed the save button to the right. My brain just ignores titlebar buttons when thinking about the application inside the window.
Oh, gotcha. The application's toolbar is in the title bar now. I've never even noticed that toolbar, as I've always just assumed that titlebar buttons control the window layout. For as many times as I've clicked the Office roundel in 2007, I'd never even noticed the save button to the right. My brain just ignores titlebar buttons when thinking about the application inside the window.
No, work implies what you have to do to live. Most people do not "create" on their jobs, the just move piles of rocks from here to there because someone else can make a nickel off having those rocks there instead of here.
People are working harder, longer hours, less recompense. This is because of what I call the "corporate hostile takeover of our lives".
Even hunter/gatherers worked only a few hours, maybe not even every day. Somehow, the incredible increase in productivity and efficiency has turned out to mean more working hours instead of less. Now, our ruling class has decided that old people have it just too damn good and need to work five years longer. No more of this retiring at 65, you need to work to 70. Gee, isn't the technological revolution grand?
OK, so we agree. Next case!
You are welcome on my lawn.
The WHOLE REASON they made the ribbon UI was to make it easier for novices to find things. It is also the reason why the people you heard angered about it the most were the pros, and why many of them are no longer angered. The people who knew what they were doing were fine with things as it stood. They'd learned it and it didn't matter if the design was good or bad, they knew it so no problem.
The idea with the ribbon was to make it easier for newbies to find things. MS did a lot of research on this (real research). Now it seems like they are going the opposite way. The "It'll be easy once you learn how to do it!" idea which is stupid, pretty much anything is easy once you learn how to do it, learning is the hard part.
For example driving a manual clutched car is simple to me. I don't even think about it, I just do. So clearly it is easy! Ummm, no. I have not forgotten the utter frustration it was learning to drive on a manual clutch. Automatics are easier to learn, no question. In actual operation by an expert, either is perfectly easy, but let's not try and play make believe that a manual clutch is "easy" for that reason.
As noted by me earlier (at http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread.php/144908-A-Windows-veteran-looks-at-Win8-Consumer-Preview?p=844912) I found quite a few Win8 things took me a while to tame - not to get used to but to reconfigure
to my satisfaction. It's all done except I have one extra click on boot, to hide Metro unless I feel perverse and want it back. To me it was well worth it, this puppy is the first totally stable thing since before DOS 4.0 and it’s
blazing fast, adds a number of very useful things formerly found only on servers (VHD, VHDX, Virtual Machines, mounting IOS files in software (WOOT! No more plastic TRASH!), boots in a breath, and is kind of pretty to look at. That’s on
a desktop without a touch screen
ALL my productivity and amusement and beta aps and historical curiosities run on it. Every one. I liked it so much on one machine I have it twice, once on a regular primary partition on a hard drive; again on a second primary partition
hosted as a vhdx on that drive and running a virtual machine. Even I can't trash two operating systems on one computer simultaneously, I will always be able to boot, to run, and to fix the busted set of stuff from the good set.
The hardware likes it too. It runs 40 degrees centigrade cooler than win7 on the same chipset. In fact the video card's heat sink lost its fan; Win7 blows out the screen display in less than an hour even with the air conditioner running,
the CPU box cover off, and a fan from an apartment window blowing in cold air. Win8 does not even notice that the fan is dead.
When they release this thing I DO hope they address some of Woody's points though they are well taken:
1. Its ubiquitous computing and not just tiny pocket form factors driving the software bus now. The cutting edge won't be the desktop or even the server farm. Things will migrate the other way. Business and quasi-business users will do a
lot with the new deices too. BUT SOME USES WILL NEED RESONABLE KEYBOARDS and no battery limitation, that is to say, wires. The new input devices can be used to some extent in a desktop setting for the character-oriented application, but
the keyboard (or the spoken word, or maybe the eye movement, BUT NOT A TOUCH SCREEN) WILL BE NEEDED. MS should not act like they may intend to pretend that that fact does not exist. With Metro on the Desktop by default, that is exactly
what the message is.
2. If anybody can imagine something like Excel driven by Touch, I can’t. Hopefully innovation (such as it is) with those types of applications will continue.
3. A lot of things (Such as Control-Alt-Delete to see the Lock Command) are just contrary to common sense. Where this stuff is now ought to be listed up front.
4. Things intentionally set up to be toggled between mode (the right-click-on-Start Power Menu, the WinX Toolbar, the Desktop Only and Desktop Tile modes for IE) should not require coming to a place like this to discover.
5. The half dozen or more substitutes for Metro's Start ought to lead to at least one non-Metro OPTION in the released version.
6. The Metro Home Screen can be made into nothing but a Splash Screen, seen on boot but never again. There ought to be a way to shut it up totally even if it’s just one wasted click that’s too many. We don't have to reinstall Devices
each boot.
There are doubtless other examples that more experienced and sophisticated users than I have discovered, of the Great, the Good, the Acceptable, the Needs Improvement, or even the Intolerable.
.
Some Start Button 'restorers': Start8Srv.exe; StartButtonX; startmenutoggle; ViStart.
As I sat here clattering away on my Model M (on the top of my desk, between my trackball and my Thinkpad), I wondered:
(1) Has anyone tried putting a trackpoint on a smartphone? It would keep the screen cleaner and keep your fingers out of the line of sight.
(2) Has anyone added a touchpad or a mini-graphics tablet to a desktop PC so desktop users could experience a touchscreen-style interface? If the interface is so great, it should be a seller. MS might even bundle it with Win8^H9.
(2a) Most laptops have a touchpad. How does that experience compare to the touchscreen interface? Are laptop users less dismayed by Metro?
(3) The real future of computer input interfaces probably involves directly tracking your eyeballs. Any bets that Google is not working on this?
--
Law of truly large numbers - almost all numbers are larger than you can imagine.
What does a programmer think when he creates a GUI?
"I have programmed this functionality. Now I have to make an interface to fit it all"
What does a designer think when he creates a GUI?
"I have invented this cool design. Now I have to choose what functionality I can squeeze into it"
P.S.: I like the first approach more, though the second one is becoming ubiquitous.
I am clearly biased as I hate all touch devices, so this change in the new Win8 OS that defaults to something that would work on a touch device and not on a desktop is completely fail for me. Apple has always believed people are too dumb to use the same machines / workstations they use to make apples, they simplify them to first grade level (as an exmple). Now the move seems to be (by everyone) to go to gadget computers (I like to call them GCs) so they can not only take away the basic computing out of the equation but replace it with a kiosk to an online store. Why do these idiots assume people want to do all their computing on the go, like writing critical heart monitoring software while riding a bus? Workstations will always exist where there is a set environment in which work takes places. GCs can go to hell.
Dear Microsoft:
I have tried the interface in Windows 8. I hate it.
I have no option to use "Desktop Only" and this will be extremely prohibitive to my business, and my livelihood.
As a result, I will be drafting letters to Apple and Ubuntu in order to make migrations away from being a Microsoft shop, as well as to proposing to Apple, that if they wish to achieve superiority in the Desktop market, the time is now and they should port their OS to all x86 instruction set capable computers.
For lack of a better word, the "Metro" interface on a desktop machine is utter sh*t....If you intend on forcing this upon your user-base, it's time we all wipe our arses, and move on to something else.
Sincerely,
A 30 year Microsoft User.
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
Find "print". The first time I used Office 2007. I asked the sysadmin where it was and he didn't know either.
Odd. It's under the File tab of the Ribbon, just like it was in the File menu in previous versions. It's the icon of the printer that says "Print" next to it.
Breakfast served all day!
Oakgoof's caught stalking by ac posts, again yesterday (he was caught doing it before, see below) and, after he was exposed doing that, he also ran from a technical question also (several of them in fact).
Answer it 'smart guy', lol http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2717169&cid=39310043 ("see penguin noob/ac stalker run" everyone, lol, BIG amusement).
Hairyfeet, another well-known member here, would be GLAD to verify that you stalk him by anonymous coward posts as well like you were caught doing here before also -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2559120&cid=38298896
Yet MORE evidences of this fool OakGOOF trolling/stalking/harassing by ac replies:
A.) Oakgrove trolling ac 1st n later caught using his reg'd acct http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2584140&cid=38448496
B.) Then signing off as his normal account here http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2584140&cid=38451650 .
Talk about stupid - same mistakes, same being caught, but this time? We're exposing you for it! Watch him "cry" now that he's getting a dose of his own bogus medicine (except I am merely showing how LOW this scumbag Oakgrove is with his own being caught doing it many times).
Yes - We "have the cure" & it's called embarassing you for your reprehensible antics in stalking/harassing others here with your ac posts, as well as exposing your technically weak b.s. in computing by running away from a tech question that's way over your limited head, and questions about Linux that you ran from 25 times or more, lol!
Everyone knows Oakgrove's a troll w\ mental issues. He has a delusion hairyfeet & apk are the same guy & others even told him otherwise, including apk and hairyfeet (who were cat & dog against one another for a long time but get along now). User hawkinspeter even noted oakgrove's off on that too here http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2584140&cid=38454174
I am all for honest reporting of tech news, but the bias here of pro Microsoft is sickening!! The author makes this new Metro sounds like thing since the invention of cell phones. Now, I don't mind if it is qualified, but comments like "in my opinion" but this article sounds like it was written by a MIcrosoft rep. (I am not anti-microsoft, I am even a MCITP) Now, I remember when Windows 7 came out and Microsoft came out and said there is no Classic StartMenu and all the Zealots out there telling people "to get on over it" and other more derogatory comments. However, some good programmers delivered Classic Startmenu via Classic Shell (on source forge). Why I am I bringing this out? Because, you know a programmer will be able to deliver both Desktop and Metro to users, just like they did for Classic Menu for Windows 7. What is even more insulting is the way that Microsoft thinks they know better than the user on what interface we want. I am really doubt if they even higher bonafide Human Design Engineers.
What the hell are you on about? Your premise is all wrong. Businesses do not start with the question "How can we use this new technology?!", they start from "How can we best solve this problem?"
Only if they are creatively bankrupt morons with zero vision, who can expect to be overtaken and surpassed (with executives no doubt left wondering "WOW, what just HAPPENED?") by the first company who DOES look forward to emerging technology to see how it can be applied to improve its business.
APK's not Hairyfeet and everyone knows it.
True, but he *is* a boring cunt.
Maybe a new Space Quest episode. For Android devices, of course.
[complex functionality] .... that cannot be simply boiled down into a single self-contained app.
Oh yes it can :)
You are the most boring cunt in the entire world.
You have an opinion on every fucking thing - and it's always mind-bogglingly self-satisfied, smug and tedious.
On and on and on and on you go; I expect you'll carry on posting your fucking drivel from beyond the grave, so we'll never be shot of you.
However, I'm eternally grateful that at least I don't have work with you or have any real-life contact with you at all.
JCK
P.S.=> You are such a boring cunt that you have to stick a fucking tedious and affected P.S. on the end of every fucking post...jck
What's your problem? I am only posting facts that toolkits exist to make "pretty" non-std. interface for both Delphi &/or C++ Builder (and yes - there's more for OTHER programming languages too).
* Orpheus is a DAMN GOOD ONE in fact, & now? TurboPower even released it as "FREE" open source stuff, very VERY cool!
(By the way - I have as much right to post about things here that are on topic, unlike yourself with your illogical ad hominem attacks on myself calling me 'cunt' etc. as the next guy does!)
APK
P.S.=> This website's so loaded with trolls like yourself it's not even funny - In fact, I think it's ruining this place slowly but surely, which is a damned shame... apk
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2717169&cid=39319501
I'm not arguing with you about Metro, I think you're right on--I can't imagine why I would want to interact with the OS in that way, when I have two 27" monitors and a keyboard.
But I will take issue with you on whether the Office 2010 Ribbon is customizable. It will be customizable when I can remove *any* item (not just a ribbon or a "tab"); when I can get rid of all the distracting hieroglyphic icons, leaving just good old words written in alphabetic characters; and when I can assign my own shortcut keys to menu items. Like the menu used to be. Now *that* was customizable.
Not sure about the keyboard commands part.
But instead of "remove" anything, leave it all there. Just build your own tab brand new from scratch. With a little work I discovered I only used about 30 features heavy duty, so I put them all on a new Ribbon. And they all have words.
It's actually faster. My best example is (Rightclick) (Paste-Special-Values followed by (Rightclick) Paste-Special-Formats.
6 clicks down to two plus simpler structure.
ONLY if you have the total access to "All Commands" does this work though. That's the key. It wasn't there in Office 2007.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I have tried out Windows 8 and I can only say, what a horrible experience. Why would I want a touch screen and get smudged fingerprints all over my monitor? If I wanted a phone interface, I would have bought a stupid Windows Phone, but I can't stand those either, what makes Microsoft think I'd want it on my desktop?
They should have stuck this OS to handhelds and touch devices and made another OS for traditional PCs. I really can't see any real improvements for my desktop experience, but sadly as a software supporter, I'll be forced to use it at some point.
I understand that Microsoft wants to get into these new markets, but don't do it at the expense of your regular users.
I hope that Microsoft realizes their mistake very soon and makes a Windows 9 thats tollerable.
Metro, the same interface that makes everyone hate the windows phone? On the desktop, Ya, that'll go over like a lead balloon.
Everyone at microsoft that thought that was a GOOD idea, needs to be the first group laid off.
You don't succeed by taking an annoying failure and making it bigger and more annoying, it's time to shake up the management at microsoft and start listening to new idea people instead of retreading the same old crap with a new frontpage.
I really have no idea why there is such a crazy hate for the new UI. Seriously. Very VERY confused. I know that the internet was basically invented for bitching about shit to an audience of other people who mostly do the same, but it's quite odd, don't you think? Please consider these following: New UIs sometime ask us to learn how to do something new. Did all of you haters complain about the invention of the mouse, double clicking, and the Start Menu? Probably, but you got used to it. Remember the comments like "What sort of IDIOT would instinctively press START to shut down their computer! IT"S LUNACY!" Now everyone is asking for it to come back. People fear change, it's pretty much involuntary; google it. Being aware of your mental limitations helps you be a better person. And perhaps less reactionary when something new comes along. The Windows 8 desktop is largely unchanged from Windows 7; it takes ONE additional click only at startup to get there. The way people talk here this is like the worst thing on earth! #FirstWorldProblems If you think the desktop is going away, you overreacting. It's there in full force in Windows 8. They have no plans to get rid of it. It works the same. Better actually, as they finally support multi-monitors with their own taskbars, something only available with 3rd party software before. MS built this whole new UI on a lot of user feedback data. And they blogged about it. If you claim otherwise, you have not been paying attention. Also, Windows 8 is not out yet. That's the whole point of the Consumer Preview - to gather data. Sadly the commentary has largely been "WAAA! IT'S NEW! I DON'T LIKE IT!" which is largely useless feedback. (This is why they look at usage data, as that doesn't lie.) The people who comment here at slashdot are mostly power users. Give a Windows 8 tablet or PC to your grandmother and I will almost guarantee they will like it and find it mostly intuitive and improved over Windows 7. And they'll be really happy to be rid of that clunky desktop thing. Who needs those small windowed things? Reading the last two lines, Windows 8 has something for everyone. A super-OS with very little cost to each to have the other. It seems that some of you think Windows 8 purchases comes with a microsoft agent who storms your house and takes your mouse and forces you to buy a touch screen. I have not read the official word, but I believe this is probably not true. Use the mouse all you want! Up is still up and down is still down. I'm pretty sure. I get the "overshooting the corner" argument for multiple monitor users. I would fully expect them to fix that in the final release (IF you're running in a VM, that's more a failing of the VM, not the OS.) Visual Studio, DBA "apps" or any other large complicated tool will never be a metro app; why would anyone assume that it would? Sure there is a mobile version of Photoshop now, but it doesn't come close to doing what the desktop version does, nor will it. They have not tried, and they don't need to try because desktop is not going anywhere. At the same time, why WOULDN'T any simple consumer application NOT be made into the modern, easily distributable "app" on a phone, tablet, or now PC. Easy distribution and free marketing of your app to the masses. I don't need to provide my own download server, or instructions, or optimize my google search rank. Sounds great to me. This sort of polarization that is evident here is very immature, and is also sadly reflected in current U.S. politics. It's easy to throw stones to anonymous folk on the internet but using hyperbole to get a point across becomes the norm and the hyperbole needs to become more extreme and all of a sudden there is no middle opinion anymore. STOP IT. You're all better than that.
This abomination deserves to die.
Why does microsoft keep coming up with these things that we have to disable or avoid.