I am not sure how to make them afraid, I probably underestimate them. Maybe they can't be made afraid, but I still think that die like other human beings. How/When does not matter if they are going to die anyways, it should be before they come over here flying an airplane full of jetfuel into buildings.
Sorry, I realize that my essay has some weaknesses. I was mostly just annoyed and wanted to write to get some thoughts off my mind. Writing is a good tool for doing that. Thanks for your criticism. As always I keep my mind open and respect constructive criticism.
My final argument to you is if we can't stop them from killing us no matter what, I at least want them to know that right before I die I was not afraid and no matter how many of us die we will still be free. *sigh* idealsism can be tough but I think if we all give in to reality something is lost.
Appearances are everything, since that is all people have to perceive us by.
I am the author, and I did not say this in any way to get moderated up here. I am speaking from my heart in the writing and hoped to share my thoughts with people. It is hard to get sorted out in the noise so forgive me for posting earlier in an article. I challenge anyone here for real critisicms not just calling me a pseudo-intellectual with no real substance to back it up. That is like saying, "Oh Im so much better than you that I dont even need to justify why". Arrogance if you ask me.
Nice essay. I had not read Harry Browne, nor Mark Rotenbergs essays on the subject.
I agree that Harry Browne has a point. While we all feel hurt by this I still think a response is needed. Maybe not a militant (IE: bombing/military) strike, but still something to show them that terrorism like this is wrong and we won't tolerate it. It is a slippery slope to walk because at the same time I feel these people(terrorists) deserve respect as well. I think we both agree that the government can't use this to take away OUR rights. I am still not sure how the government should respond. I honestly don't want to see an invasion, or even more bombs and destruction. I am sick of it. I think we need to find a quiet and decisive way to send a message. Perhaps that is why we need a great leader, to find a great response to this that can make everyone happy and gain the respect of the world. I would never once characterize what these terrorists did as cowardly. Wicked and Evil maybe, cowardly no.
Guncontrol, Cryptography, Anything a terrorists use that I also freely use were things I was referencing in my essay. I used gun control as an example. You can replace the word "guns" with "cryptography" and it becomes relevant. The point is not a specific liberty but all of them.
Maybe it is a little militant I will give you that. But I have calmed down and still think that anyone who would cause us harm should be wary of us. Maybe we don't have to strike them physically and cause more physical harm but we need to do SOMETHING to make the terrorists think twice, and something to help prevent this sort of thing. It is a difficult subject. The easiest response is a militant one, but some of the time it is wholely appropriate.
Whatever is done it must be quick and decisive. It can't end up like a Vietnam in the middle east.
I realize this. Safety is false. Nothing is going to stop people from murdering each other. Nothing is going to stop the determined. We must try to at least make them wary. To not let them win by causing our liberties and rights to be diminished. To show the world that for every time were attacked we will not be afraid and we will not back down. I know these people were on a mission for Allah. I just think that we (United States) cannot sit idle and let it keep happening without response of an affirmitive kind.
It is such a difficult issue and the terrorism of this scale can achieves its goals in many insidious ways. It is hard to say, "Hey striking back coulda woulda prevented this". I don't think it will really stop some terrorists. But it will give them pause and make them know we are not going to be afraid, now or ever. Living in fear of my government or terrorists is not something I ever want to feel or know yet it looms dangerously close. If I die from a terrorist I want him to know he has killed a citizen of a country that wont ever be afraid and wont ever stop beliving in freedom and our way of life.
Please read my essay and if you like it pass it on to people. We can't let this happen. I have been saying this since day one. Please please think about this:(
My thoughts on the matter are summed up in an essay I wrote addressing what I feel will be most important in the coming months. I would like for anyone reading my essay to share their feelings.
Oh man. Microsoft may have some deplorable business practices that we may not agree with but shit its not like they are out killing people or blowing up buildings to get their point across. They are an american founded company and they are giving millions in money and millions in software to help with the efforts.
Now is just not the time to spout stuff like this with no thought to your words. Microsoft is still run by humans. They are helping out and I praise them just like I praise all the other companies helping out. Sure it is a good PR bit, but when it comes down to it that is a sizeable chunk of cash, tax deductable or not.. can you move 5-10M in cold hard liquid assets that quick?
They did, 5M in consultants, and software, IT resources type stuff. And 5M in cold hard cash...
Jeremy
Re:It's been said before...
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 1
Dress them like passengers, next?
Puncturing the shell of the aircraft causes cabin depressurization, people wont get sucked out through the holes or anything. THe oxygenmasks come down. Its much better if you don't actually know who the guy with the gun is.
I can honestly say as a book author it is incredibly difficult to keep a work whole and cohesive and stick to your guns about 5-10 chapters into the book.
While it may not be the greatest idea to say in a later chapter this project might have been better done differently it certainly is not a fault. As an author I constantly revise and revise and have to stop myself because I am on a deadline and the reality is with a deadline the work won't even come close to perfect and you have to pick your battles wisely.
It is HARD to write so that you are not talking down to a reader. It is HARD to keep on subject and make sure there are no gaps in a readers knowledge before skipping on the the next subject. It is hard to peg an audience and choose what skill level readers will have with "xyz things". You want a book to sell and sell well, so you want to appeal to as wide an audience as you can. You also don't want to seem to "boring" for your advanced readers or to "complex" for your new readers.
Writing is such an art that it is difficult to appreciate some of the time without having written large works yourself.
I have read so many books in my career as a writer/developer. I can say that now I reread books and look at them completely differently. While less critical in general, I am still more appreciative of a well written book. I think one of the finest examples of written books on programming are by Bruce Eckel. His writing style is refreshing and admirable to me. He has a LOT of experience actually teaching and helping people learn.
Anyhow to my main point, writing is difficult and authors tend to strive for perfection and a wide audience and that can some of the time affect how much certain groups of readers take away from the end product. A good author can let readers of any skill level take away a lot.
Very true. And oh no, you just put a hole in the airplanes hull.. what happens?
Well now the little oxygen masks come out. NO one is going to get sucked out of the airplane through the hole. Hell they even have ammunition that wont penetrate the hull for JUST these kind of situations.
Verify the ammunition carried by people licensed to carry concealed firearms is airplane safe and yes its true this could have been prevented. It COULD have prevented even without firearms. But these terrorists knew that the passengers of these planes wouldnt even have so much as a screw driver to fight back with, because they obey the law and the bad guys, they didn't. Granted there will be some loss of life, empowered citizens are not afraid of 4 or 5 guys with knives. Anyhow its not the people who live striaght lives not commiting crimes that own guns you have to worry about. It is the ones who can give a flying f*ck about the laws. You could eradicate every last sale of firearms and make it illegal to own any firearms and the terrorists would still bring terror to the world.
We would live in a more fearful society. I would be more afraid knowing that only the cops and people willing to kill others have guns.....
I am saying, right now the way our lives are lived, if that changes as a whole we have all lost something. If I am not quite sure what you mean by the rights you have mentioned that we currently have in some way affected these terrorists and their ability to cause this.
I am guessing that by engineering guns, and rockets, we are taking away from people. Yes that is true but it is a sad reality.
If we EVER stop doing that, then only the terrorists will have the guns and the and bombs. While I have merely had rights taken away from me. Not only my right to own a gun but also the very rights you mention, the rights to feel save.
IT is a sad fact of reality and it is purely idealism if you believe that eradicating gun sales will erdaicate the majority of gun problems. We will become a more fearful society overall I believe.
Wow, so true. Just thought about that. This site is true. While many things were not ery clear we had people in the office IM'ing people right across the road from the WTC buildings they knew saying, "Oh no I just saw someone jump from the top of the building", while we all sit around talking about it in disbelief. It was so much more real hearing it from a real person. I felt much more connected throughout the day communicating on/., AIM, and with my co-workers than ever did with CNN.
It is more than just rights lost now. It starts a trend, it sets a mindset. It changes pressures and ploys people will use to pass oppresive measures. Don't underestimate the ways people will use this to their advantage. For one I can see bubbling to gun control and several other things. Maybe the chatter will die down but I can see many opportunity seekers trying to "protect" america from things like "guns, terrorists, etc", I mean Hey whats the difference?
It happens. There are already people whop preach the "restrict encryption use" so that "evil people" can't "secretly" communicate using encryption. Come on laws like the DMCA pass in peacetime! This is still peacetime but people are in a state of shock and sadness and a need to "fix" what is now "broken". People with an agenda will be glad to use anything to their advantage and no I don't think im over-reacting:(
Okay, carter started the trend and no one went back on it due to the political sitaution. It is a long debate, I am on the phone right now or I would defend myself. I just think that he did indeed start the trend of reducing our intelligence. Call it off-wing but I bet you hear it a lot soon.
On another note check this link out. State department warned about "U.S. citizens and interests abroad may be at increased risk of a terrorist action from extremist groups" and ". We are also concerned about information we received in May 2001 that American citizens may be the target of a terrorist threat from extremist groups with links to Usama Bin Ladin's Al-Qaida organization."
I don't know there are so many factors in something like this it is wrong to blame any one person or group I guess. Anyhow heres a link....
Not only this but the state department issued warnings about terrorist attacks more than a week ago. Bin Laden was making threats as well, but I put no stock in the Bin Laden thing. The Media is taking Bin Laden and running with him as a thing for most people to focus their anger on (At this point) IMO. He may have done it. You and I cant know yet. Check out this leek. Dated Sep 7th from the state department talking about terrorist activities from extremist groups almost a WEEK ago. Terrorist Warning It even has his name (Osama Bin Laden) in it:(
Doesn't Microsoft and software development and/. seem so insignificant when something like this happens? I think, gee I really don't care about Microsoft. They are far less evil than people like this.
I am pretty much numb. I cant cheer people up, even myself when usually I am the one that makes everyone smile. I am just to stunned. This is such a huge wake up call to the world.
I bet the doomsday clock gets adjusted over this. World tensions are going up.
I wish we had cold-war level intelligence still. Jimmy Carter REALLY fucked us over by gutting our intelligence agencies. I blame this on Jimmy Carter for removing our intelligence abilities.
Yes we can have cold war level intelligence without removing our freedoms, YES it needs to happen. I don't think any of us will ever forget this. We probably all know someone affected by this. I hope you are all okay and can wake up tommorow and enjoy your day as if it is your last. I am not so upset by the loss of life, we lose thousands of people to murder every day. I am upset about the symbolism here and the threats to remove our freedom, that is the truly scary thing.
Slashdot Mirror
Does aging mean it is not still good? We still have cars that use wheels. Wheels are such an aging technology.
I am not sure how to make them afraid, I probably underestimate them. Maybe they can't be made afraid, but I still think that die like other human beings. How/When does not matter if they are going to die anyways, it should be before they come over here flying an airplane full of jetfuel into buildings.
Sorry, I realize that my essay has some weaknesses. I was mostly just annoyed and wanted to write to get some thoughts off my mind. Writing is a good tool for doing that. Thanks for your criticism. As always I keep my mind open and respect constructive criticism.
My final argument to you is if we can't stop them from killing us no matter what, I at least want them to know that right before I die I was not afraid and no matter how many of us die we will still be free. *sigh* idealsism can be tough but I think if we all give in to reality something is lost.
Jeremy
Its fixed, pointed about by another reader. Thanks :)
Appearances are everything, since that is all people have to perceive us by.
I am the author, and I did not say this in any way to get moderated up here. I am speaking from my heart in the writing and hoped to share my thoughts with people. It is hard to get sorted out in the noise so forgive me for posting earlier in an article. I challenge anyone here for real critisicms not just calling me a pseudo-intellectual with no real substance to back it up. That is like saying, "Oh Im so much better than you that I dont even need to justify why". Arrogance if you ask me.
Jeremy
Nice essay. I had not read Harry Browne, nor Mark Rotenbergs essays on the subject.
I agree that Harry Browne has a point. While we all feel hurt by this I still think a response is needed. Maybe not a militant (IE: bombing/military) strike, but still something to show them that terrorism like this is wrong and we won't tolerate it. It is a slippery slope to walk because at the same time I feel these people(terrorists) deserve respect as well. I think we both agree that the government can't use this to take away OUR rights. I am still not sure how the government should respond. I honestly don't want to see an invasion, or even more bombs and destruction. I am sick of it. I think we need to find a quiet and decisive way to send a message. Perhaps that is why we need a great leader, to find a great response to this that can make everyone happy and gain the respect of the world. I would never once characterize what these terrorists did as cowardly. Wicked and Evil maybe, cowardly no.
*sigh* Its all very hard.
Thanks for the extra reading
Jeremy
Guncontrol, Cryptography, Anything a terrorists use that I also freely use were things I was referencing in my essay. I used gun control as an example. You can replace the word "guns" with "cryptography" and it becomes relevant. The point is not a specific liberty but all of them.
Maybe it is a little militant I will give you that. But I have calmed down and still think that anyone who would cause us harm should be wary of us. Maybe we don't have to strike them physically and cause more physical harm but we need to do SOMETHING to make the terrorists think twice, and something to help prevent this sort of thing. It is a difficult subject. The easiest response is a militant one, but some of the time it is wholely appropriate.
Whatever is done it must be quick and decisive. It can't end up like a Vietnam in the middle east.
Jeremy
Sorry, It was a 25 minute writing project at lunch today. Helpful critique to make it a BETTER essay would be nice.
Thanks
I realize this. Safety is false. Nothing is going to stop people from murdering each other. Nothing is going to stop the determined. We must try to at least make them wary. To not let them win by causing our liberties and rights to be diminished. To show the world that for every time were attacked we will not be afraid and we will not back down. I know these people were on a mission for Allah. I just think that we (United States) cannot sit idle and let it keep happening without response of an affirmitive kind.
It is such a difficult issue and the terrorism of this scale can achieves its goals in many insidious ways. It is hard to say, "Hey striking back coulda woulda prevented this". I don't think it will really stop some terrorists. But it will give them pause and make them know we are not going to be afraid, now or ever. Living in fear of my government or terrorists is not something I ever want to feel or know yet it looms dangerously close. If I die from a terrorist I want him to know he has killed a citizen of a country that wont ever be afraid and wont ever stop beliving in freedom and our way of life.
Jeremy
Done, People complained it was aligned left, I like it aligned left better anyways.
;)
So back it goes to the left
Jeremy
To bad it is the major corporations and money makers who get all of the influential decisions made in this country.
Jeremy
This is what I am afraid of! :(
:(
Please read my essay and if you like it pass it on to people. We can't let this happen. I have been saying this since day one. Please please think about this
The Price of Freedom
Jeremy
My thoughts on the matter are summed up in an essay I wrote addressing what I feel will be most important in the coming months. I would like for anyone reading my essay to share their feelings.
The Price of Freedom
Thanks
Jeremy
Oh man. Microsoft may have some deplorable business practices that we may not agree with but shit its not like they are out killing people or blowing up buildings to get their point across. They are an american founded company and they are giving millions in money and millions in software to help with the efforts.
Now is just not the time to spout stuff like this with no thought to your words. Microsoft is still run by humans. They are helping out and I praise them just like I praise all the other companies helping out. Sure it is a good PR bit, but when it comes down to it that is a sizeable chunk of cash, tax deductable or not.. can you move 5-10M in cold hard liquid assets that quick?
Jeremy
They did, 5M in consultants, and software, IT resources type stuff. And 5M in cold hard cash...
Jeremy
Dress them like passengers, next?
Puncturing the shell of the aircraft causes cabin depressurization, people wont get sucked out through the holes or anything. THe oxygenmasks come down. Its much better if you don't actually know who the guy with the gun is.
Jeremy
You have to be jealous, he has one of the biggest portable penis extensions you can buy!
Jeremy
I can honestly say as a book author it is incredibly difficult to keep a work whole and cohesive and stick to your guns about 5-10 chapters into the book.
While it may not be the greatest idea to say in a later chapter this project might have been better done differently it certainly is not a fault. As an author I constantly revise and revise and have to stop myself because I am on a deadline and the reality is with a deadline the work won't even come close to perfect and you have to pick your battles wisely.
It is HARD to write so that you are not talking down to a reader. It is HARD to keep on subject and make sure there are no gaps in a readers knowledge before skipping on the the next subject. It is hard to peg an audience and choose what skill level readers will have with "xyz things". You want a book to sell and sell well, so you want to appeal to as wide an audience as you can. You also don't want to seem to "boring" for your advanced readers or to "complex" for your new readers.
Writing is such an art that it is difficult to appreciate some of the time without having written large works yourself.
I have read so many books in my career as a writer/developer. I can say that now I reread books and look at them completely differently. While less critical in general, I am still more appreciative of a well written book. I think one of the finest examples of written books on programming are by Bruce Eckel. His writing style is refreshing and admirable to me. He has a LOT of experience actually teaching and helping people learn.
Anyhow to my main point, writing is difficult and authors tend to strive for perfection and a wide audience and that can some of the time affect how much certain groups of readers take away from the end product. A good author can let readers of any skill level take away a lot.
Jeremy
Very true. And oh no, you just put a hole in the airplanes hull.. what happens?
....
Well now the little oxygen masks come out. NO one is going to get sucked out of the airplane through the hole. Hell they even have ammunition that wont penetrate the hull for JUST these kind of situations.
Verify the ammunition carried by people licensed to carry concealed firearms is airplane safe and yes its true this could have been prevented. It COULD have prevented even without firearms. But these terrorists knew that the passengers of these planes wouldnt even have so much as a screw driver to fight back with, because they obey the law and the bad guys, they didn't. Granted there will be some loss of life, empowered citizens are not afraid of 4 or 5 guys with knives. Anyhow its not the people who live striaght lives not commiting crimes that own guns you have to worry about. It is the ones who can give a flying f*ck about the laws. You could eradicate every last sale of firearms and make it illegal to own any firearms and the terrorists would still bring terror to the world.
We would live in a more fearful society. I would be more afraid knowing that only the cops and people willing to kill others have guns.
*sigh*
Jeremy
I am saying, right now the way our lives are lived, if that changes as a whole we have all lost something. If I am not quite sure what you mean by the rights you have mentioned that we currently have in some way affected these terrorists and their ability to cause this.
I am guessing that by engineering guns, and rockets, we are taking away from people. Yes that is true but it is a sad reality.
If we EVER stop doing that, then only the terrorists will have the guns and the and bombs. While I have merely had rights taken away from me. Not only my right to own a gun but also the very rights you mention, the rights to feel save.
IT is a sad fact of reality and it is purely idealism if you believe that eradicating gun sales will erdaicate the majority of gun problems. We will become a more fearful society overall I believe.
Jeremy
Wow, so true. Just thought about that. This site is true. While many things were not ery clear we had people in the office IM'ing people right across the road from the WTC buildings they knew saying, "Oh no I just saw someone jump from the top of the building", while we all sit around talking about it in disbelief. It was so much more real hearing it from a real person. I felt much more connected throughout the day communicating on /., AIM, and with my co-workers than ever did with CNN.
Truly scary.
Jeremy
It is more than just rights lost now. It starts a trend, it sets a mindset. It changes pressures and ploys people will use to pass oppresive measures. Don't underestimate the ways people will use this to their advantage. For one I can see bubbling to gun control and several other things. Maybe the chatter will die down but I can see many opportunity seekers trying to "protect" america from things like "guns, terrorists, etc", I mean Hey whats the difference?
:(
It happens. There are already people whop preach the "restrict encryption use" so that "evil people" can't "secretly" communicate using encryption. Come on laws like the DMCA pass in peacetime! This is still peacetime but people are in a state of shock and sadness and a need to "fix" what is now "broken". People with an agenda will be glad to use anything to their advantage and no I don't think im over-reacting
Jeremy
Okay, carter started the trend and no one went back on it due to the political sitaution. It is a long debate, I am on the phone right now or I would defend myself. I just think that he did indeed start the trend of reducing our intelligence. Call it off-wing but I bet you hear it a lot soon.
On another note check this link out. State department warned about "U.S. citizens and interests abroad may be at increased risk of a terrorist action from extremist groups" and ". We are also concerned about information we received in May 2001 that American citizens may be the target of a terrorist threat from extremist groups with links to Usama Bin Ladin's Al-Qaida organization."
I don't know there are so many factors in something like this it is wrong to blame any one person or group I guess. Anyhow heres a link....
State Department Public Announcement
Jeremy
Look, I can't claim to understand the idea "The us had it coming"
That is such utter bullshit.
The people killed, they had it coming right?
The atack on people and a nation we deserve that right?
Dont believe for a second ANYONE deserves this, not any person or any country. Not the civlians of the country anyhow.
Jeremy
Not only this but the state department issued warnings about terrorist attacks more than a week ago. Bin Laden was making threats as well, but I put no stock in the Bin Laden thing. The Media is taking Bin Laden and running with him as a thing for most people to focus their anger on (At this point) IMO. He may have done it. You and I cant know yet. Check out this leek. Dated Sep 7th from the state department talking about terrorist activities from extremist groups almost a WEEK ago. Terrorist Warning It even has his name (Osama Bin Laden) in it :(
Jeremy
Doesn't Microsoft and software development and /. seem so insignificant when something like this happens? I think, gee I really don't care about Microsoft. They are far less evil than people like this.
I am pretty much numb. I cant cheer people up, even myself when usually I am the one that makes everyone smile. I am just to stunned. This is such a huge wake up call to the world.
I bet the doomsday clock gets adjusted over this. World tensions are going up.
I wish we had cold-war level intelligence still. Jimmy Carter REALLY fucked us over by gutting our intelligence agencies. I blame this on Jimmy Carter for removing our intelligence abilities.
Yes we can have cold war level intelligence without removing our freedoms, YES it needs to happen. I don't think any of us will ever forget this. We probably all know someone affected by this. I hope you are all okay and can wake up tommorow and enjoy your day as if it is your last. I am not so upset by the loss of life, we lose thousands of people to murder every day. I am upset about the symbolism here and the threats to remove our freedom, that is the truly scary thing.
Clinton administration were pushovers.
Jeremy