Hmmn.. my senior year in high-school in an English class studying all of the authors and the time-period etc I had the same idea, and again doing my research paper in my English class I reflected on this just a little.
My conclusion is anyone who is even aware of what romanticism and the Enlightenment can and usually do quickly grasp the parallel of the 'freedomistic' movements today, Free software, Free thinking etc.
I think anyone who has to read a book to see this isnt among the crowd (not to say the author isnt obviously he *gets* it). I always found my self thinking on tangents in High School, this was one when English got to dry.
Its amusing to see a book written on it, but not shocking and really I do think this is another good reason to be "broad" in your education. You can easily forget your 'root's;) and then your bound to repeat mistakes etc, at least thats the idea right..
lol no it was great, i was reading it and I caught your name and I was like hmmn what the heck, then I read a few of the parent posts and was laughing good:P it was funny..
I find it amusing the number of people who cant actually touch type.
Its like you would think since it something you do all day (assuming you do it more than 8 hrs a day) that most pople would at the very least learn to touch type:P, however ive found that this is very rarely the case:-)
More proof moderators dont pay attention This is post #3 which whichis clearly before post #4 posing the same question, yet post #3 is marked redundant becuase most people go by highest score first... what a crock.
Navigation bars should always be on the "left" its a pretty safe bet to assume most people will feel much more comfortable dropping menu's down from left to right (english speaking folks) anyways.
Think about it, you read left to right most everything you do is from left to right, typing its deeply ingrained in your mind by the time your 20 or so.
Going from right to left seems to make less sense to me, so do sights that put the menu on the left just to be cool?
It dont make any sense to me.. Thats why I like left to right navigation on all my sights as I think it makes it more useable to a greater number of people...
Okay, if anyone is shallow enough to choose religion because everyone else is NOT choosing that religion its more along the lines of a "popular" religion than any kind of true belief.
If you cant post something Informative, interesting, or insightful be funny...
Here goes.. of course this is not funny to me but im up for humor on my part:P
I am working for a software company that is branching off from a PR/Advertising firm.
I walked into a meeting room and was stricken with absolute terror.
Okay so no one was in the room but there was a wall with slogans on it for brainstorming, and it had the words Innovate, People, and Power to many times.. I couldnt move it was like all of the hateful slurs I see in advertising all concentrated in one place:P
Thanks for saying that really, that is about as true as it gets.
A degree in *anything* shows you can learn something to xyz degree of complexity and that you can handle the responsibility of getting that degree, That is why skipping the college part proving yourself can be a very difficult task:-|
Thats true enough however, he has not sold out just yet and people who are true to themselves are rather rare, perhaps he is or perhaps hes already using his fame to boost himself some along the way
Until he sells out there is nothing really wrong with making yourself more of an authority on a topic to promote your ideas, it gives what you say more weight and thus furthers what your goals right?
I mean if this is blatant self promotion I dont see it, but I really would like to see some examples of him blatantly doing it, any articles references and I am with you.. I dont like people who needlessly attract attention:)
I think in this case self promotion is a form of making him (and more importantly im sure to him) his ideals known.
Why I said "Hey fame is an illusion" The people who have it usually dont want it and the people who dont have it usually think they want it.
But used properly you can create the illusion of fame and thus use it to promote your agenda whatever it is, self promotion does the guy need it? He wrote a C compiler by himself and hes worked at MIT and any Tech Job he wanted he could have.
Yeah, no matter what example I used there all someone has to do is sit down and learn, and chances are if you are self taught in programming that if you dont know something its because you chose not to learn it:)
That is actually very insightful, if not a tad idealistic.
Most young men "skipping" college dont have the first damn clue what the hell they are doing. A good number of people right out of college still barely have much of an idea.
I have had very little college and right now it does "work for me". I have been programming professionally about two years (I am only 20) and I love it, I get tons of actual real world practice and when tough situations come up I have enough knowledge of theory to formally handle the problem. It may take me just a little more time than someone who is practiced at say writing a spell checker.
But the first time you do any kind of transition from "Theory to Practice" OR "Practice to Theory" where you see the need for something you are not familiar with working with or you are doing something that you are not familiar with actually doing but you know the dry theory of 'how' something should work down pat.
Its a trade-off the problems come in when people who skip the college part dont really know enough, then your career is in very serious danger and the only implications in your future are going back to school if you cant actually do the work
Does a college education garauntee you can make it as a programmer? No.
It does show and prove to any potential employer that you have made it through four years of training and you should be able to make it through the transition of Theory to Practice, its just more learning.
What do I have to show that I can adapt and learn other than raw experience without a degree? All I have is my resume listing all of the work I have done and if that is not enough to prove to an employer I can adapt then they will hire someone with a degree who has a better chance of making it.
With a degree I would say as a developer with a few years of experience the possibilities for you are very endless.
I do kind of have a central point, neither way is the wrong way IMO, its just harder to actually make it without the degree everyone knows that but the most obvious things tend to be overlooked
Now thats not relevant to what this poster was saying which is without a education that is equally wide in knowledge not just programming you cant truly understand what missing your education means to you.
Since I have had about a year of college it really *does* change the way you think, maybe not about programming but about people and everything else in your life (at least for some people)
The year I spent in college inspired me to get the heck out and work for a while but I know that the degree will enhance me as a person beyond what most people without a degree ever really push for..
Its great that you can program in every known assembler to man and you make 90K / year but what if you cant do something really simple like write a well formed document describing your work?
It is quite easy to deride people who stand up for things they believe in to the fullest extend of their ability. It is even fair to do this since it is our right as human beings to bitch complain and whine (right.......)
However no one gives RMS much credit, hes always had an agenda *always* from day one, only someone with an agenda would have written the GPL anyways.
His agenda is to make sure that source code is available for every bit of software on the planet that is his dream
maybe its wayyy to idealistic but the one reason I dont ever complain about RMS is because he is always VERY consistent.
He doesnt waver or change or crack or use his fame to do anything other than promtoe his agenda which is to make software free.
Give him a little respect and hey fame is an illusion
Thereis a very simple solution to being non taxed and defeating the governments of the world around you
Move to the wilderness and become soley a producer.
Go to some huge forest and never come out. If a criminal can evade the FBI for months using the wilds someone like me or you can still disappear before we are all marked up with trackers n such and never be found again. Spy on the thick forest canopy bub.
It all works out in the end, ahem but anyways you dont see anyone taking the obvious solution:)
Labor shortages, why do people think the Tech industry is the only profession with a 'shortage'
I dont know how many if you really care or know much about cars but a good auto mechanic is difficult to find.
Talented mechanics are like everyone else, if you want one a cut above the rest its expensive because we all know for everyone who 'gets' programming or 'gets' car mechanics 10 other people dont get it and they are just riding the wave.
My personal experiences have been pretty interesting int he mechanics field.
I am restoring a 1971 Mach I (mustang), and its a Project Car of mine and its definately a labor of love since I bought the whole car for 400 dollars >:)
I usually discuss parts to buy and how to do something with a mechanic at the mustang shop that does work on my other mustang they are a bunch of really good folks.
Just after uhm getting my car running (I rebuilt the engine from the ground up and only got stuck twice) they were impressed enough to offer me a part-time position...
So I really dont think that this "shortage" is in just IT, I think its any highly skilled career you are going to find the ratio of sig:noise you will always get more noise
I Upload much Mp3's to a server. Many people use a server for storing their Mp3's
Illegal? No perfectly fine everyones known about private FTP since the creation of time:-P
So no laws are being broken yet right?
Well the administrator of this system writes a kewl program that goes through and has one master copy of all the EXACT duplicates and writes a program to delete all the extra data in the data space and symlinks to this master that everyones listening to were still legal becuase this system will still allow each user to retrieve his or her file
Said administrator realizes that when a new album is released many of the data is updated and this indexing program is massively loading down the server when the next britney spears album comes out. so he just decides to buy one copy of this cd and anyone who cna prove they own a copy can get a "symlink" to the copy of it and listen to it.. have we crossed the line yet?
This is exactly what mp3 does (the later case) when does it cross the line, where is the in between in the later and second to last cases I present?
In dimes, that is One billion one hundred eighty million dimes.
Now do a quick calculation how much room a stack of dimes takes up. 10 Dollars in dimes is 100 dimes right. So that leaves us with 11 million dime rolls.
From there it dont take rocket science to realize that even if that was just 1 cubic inch (seems about right) we are talking 11 million CUBIC inches okay that is about 916 thousand cubic feet. Heh my apartment has about 1200 Square feet and the ceiling is about 8 feet high soo what 9600 Cubic feet, which means it would take roughly 100 of my apartments.. or.. my entire apartment compelx full of dimes right?
Yes that would be truly amusing to pull up 10 semis full of dimes.
I am working with an ASP which does full cross browswer stuff, almost all the scripting I do is purely to enhance functionality.. never just for show, tahts what marketing and flash presentations are for, dont let that *junk* in my mind get in the way or a useable product.:)
Why? Php is designed to do HTML Preprocessing, mod_perl *CAN* do it and you can actually write elegant code (check out slashcode) but I still think Php has several advantages.
Now that Php4 is out classes are very easy and nice to handle.. wow just write your DB class and use it all over the place? changing databases? No problem no DBI kludge here, just rewrite your database interface class and viola your code is still the same.
Ive done this and used it and it works.
Ive about killed myself trying it with Perl.
Ive been doin ColdFusion/Php for almost 2 years and Perl does *fit* but for Development time I like Php because its what im familiar with (not thats personal not a plus or minus for perl)
But php has a whole bunch of quick functions such as encoding a string into URL format, decoding it coding HTML special characters.. the list goes on
Its all done with RAD methodology in mind.
You can write nice clean code with php that is GREAT for projects and code reusability now.
With Perl you want something you gotta download 900 modules and it just drives me to distraction trying to decide to find a piece of code already written, write my own, get it all working ahh.. it just comes off as kludge I am one of those poor souless web developers who could never find and make peace with Perl.
I *DO* like perl for doing some things, and I think its still viable for web development.. just if the shoe fits wear it right? Php is awesome and has all you need in one central place. Perl you ahve to pick and choose and hunt.:-)
*sigh* I think most people miss the point of why Katz is allowed to post here.
Okay everyone and their borthers dog has established katz is not always fluent and PC with his GEEK terminology, bitching about it detracts FURTHER from the conversation, politely pointing it out and then contributing to the conversation helps.
Anyhow why is he here? He brings up an idea he elaborates to a good degree (wordy at least) then we can all discuss it, So of the main point is a little off it is still very interesting to ocmpare and contrast some modern fiction's vision for the world with how things appear to be going.
STOP complaning and start adding to the discussion..
Slashdot Mirror
Hmmn.. my senior year in high-school in an English class studying all of the authors and the time-period etc I had the same idea, and again doing my research paper in my English class I reflected on this just a little.
;) and then your bound to repeat mistakes etc, at least thats the idea right..
:)
My conclusion is anyone who is even aware of what romanticism and the Enlightenment can and usually do quickly grasp the parallel of the 'freedomistic' movements today, Free software, Free thinking etc.
I think anyone who has to read a book to see this isnt among the crowd (not to say the author isnt obviously he *gets* it). I always found my self thinking on tangents in High School, this was one when English got to dry.
Its amusing to see a book written on it, but not shocking and really I do think this is another good reason to be "broad" in your education. You can easily forget your 'root's
Jeremy
lol no it was great, i was reading it and I caught your name and I was like hmmn what the heck, then I read a few of the parent posts and was laughing good :P it was funny..
Jeremy
I find it amusing the number of people who cant actually touch type.
:P, however ive found that this is very rarely the case :-)
;p)
Its like you would think since it something you do all day (assuming you do it more than 8 hrs a day) that most pople would at the very least learn to touch type
Jeremy (Can touch type
Id just have it crunch the packets it routes checking for any signs of intelligent life :p
More proof moderators dont pay attention This is post #3 which whichis clearly before post #4 posing the same question, yet post #3 is marked redundant becuase most people go by highest score first... what a crock.
Jeremy
Heh, how many times have we been over this. It is their site if you dont like it PLEASE get the hell out but stop posting this useless crap.
Thank you.. Drive through
Yes I realize the parent post is a troll....
Jeremy
Navigation bars should always be on the "left" its a pretty safe bet to assume most people will feel much more comfortable dropping menu's down from left to right (english speaking folks) anyways.
Think about it, you read left to right most everything you do is from left to right, typing its deeply ingrained in your mind by the time your 20 or so.
Going from right to left seems to make less sense to me, so do sights that put the menu on the left just to be cool?
It dont make any sense to me.. Thats why I like left to right navigation on all my sights as I think it makes it more useable to a greater number of people...
Jeremy
Okay, if anyone is shallow enough to choose religion because everyone else is NOT choosing that religion its more along the lines of a "popular" religion than any kind of true belief.
Jeremy
If you cant post something Informative, interesting, or insightful be funny...
:P
:P
Here goes.. of course this is not funny to me but im up for humor on my part
I am working for a software company that is branching off from a PR/Advertising firm.
I walked into a meeting room and was stricken with absolute terror.
Okay so no one was in the room but there was a wall with slogans on it for brainstorming, and it had the words Innovate, People, and Power to many times.. I couldnt move it was like all of the hateful slurs I see in advertising all concentrated in one place
Jeremy
Or spend 80 bucks on a book that willt each it to you so that you can reuse it in a useable fashion..
Thanks for saying that really, that is about as true as it gets.
:-|
A degree in *anything* shows you can learn something to xyz degree of complexity and that you can handle the responsibility of getting that degree, That is why skipping the college part proving yourself can be a very difficult task
Jeremy
Thats true enough however, he has not sold out just yet and people who are true to themselves are rather rare, perhaps he is or perhaps hes already using his fame to boost himself some along the way
:)
Until he sells out there is nothing really wrong with making yourself more of an authority on a topic to promote your ideas, it gives what you say more weight and thus furthers what your goals right?
I mean if this is blatant self promotion I dont see it, but I really would like to see some examples of him blatantly doing it, any articles references and I am with you.. I dont like people who needlessly attract attention
Jeremy
I think in this case self promotion is a form of making him (and more importantly im sure to him) his ideals known.
Why I said "Hey fame is an illusion" The people who have it usually dont want it and the people who dont have it usually think they want it.
But used properly you can create the illusion of fame and thus use it to promote your agenda whatever it is, self promotion does the guy need it? He wrote a C compiler by himself and hes worked at MIT and any Tech Job he wanted he could have.
Jeremy
Yeah, no matter what example I used there all someone has to do is sit down and learn, and chances are if you are self taught in programming that if you dont know something its because you chose not to learn it :)
Jeremy
That is actually very insightful, if not a tad idealistic.
Most young men "skipping" college dont have the first damn clue what the hell they are doing. A good number of people right out of college still barely have much of an idea.
I have had very little college and right now it does "work for me". I have been programming professionally about two years (I am only 20) and I love it, I get tons of actual real world practice and when tough situations come up I have enough knowledge of theory to formally handle the problem. It may take me just a little more time than someone who is practiced at say writing a spell checker.
But the first time you do any kind of transition from "Theory to Practice" OR "Practice to Theory" where you see the need for something you are not familiar with working with or you are doing something that you are not familiar with actually doing but you know the dry theory of 'how' something should work down pat.
Its a trade-off the problems come in when people who skip the college part dont really know enough, then your career is in very serious danger and the only implications in your future are going back to school if you cant actually do the work
Does a college education garauntee you can make it as a programmer? No.
It does show and prove to any potential employer that you have made it through four years of training and you should be able to make it through the transition of Theory to Practice, its just more learning.
What do I have to show that I can adapt and learn other than raw experience without a degree? All I have is my resume listing all of the work I have done and if that is not enough to prove to an employer I can adapt then they will hire someone with a degree who has a better chance of making it.
With a degree I would say as a developer with a few years of experience the possibilities for you are very endless.
I do kind of have a central point, neither way is the wrong way IMO, its just harder to actually make it without the degree everyone knows that but the most obvious things tend to be overlooked
Now thats not relevant to what this poster was saying which is without a education that is equally wide in knowledge not just programming you cant truly understand what missing your education means to you.
Since I have had about a year of college it really *does* change the way you think, maybe not about programming but about people and everything else in your life (at least for some people)
The year I spent in college inspired me to get the heck out and work for a while but I know that the degree will enhance me as a person beyond what most people without a degree ever really push for..
Its great that you can program in every known assembler to man and you make 90K / year but what if you cant do something really simple like write a well formed document describing your work?
Jeremy
It is quite easy to deride people who stand up for things they believe in to the fullest extend of their ability. It is even fair to do this since it is our right as human beings to bitch complain and whine (right.......)
However no one gives RMS much credit, hes always had an agenda *always* from day one, only someone with an agenda would have written the GPL anyways.
His agenda is to make sure that source code is available for every bit of software on the planet that is his dream
maybe its wayyy to idealistic but the one reason I dont ever complain about RMS is because he is always VERY consistent.
He doesnt waver or change or crack or use his fame to do anything other than promtoe his agenda which is to make software free.
Give him a little respect and hey fame is an illusion
Jeremy
Thereis a very simple solution to being non taxed and defeating the governments of the world around you
:)
Move to the wilderness and become soley a producer.
Go to some huge forest and never come out. If a criminal can evade the FBI for months using the wilds someone like me or you can still disappear before we are all marked up with trackers n such and never be found again. Spy on the thick forest canopy bub.
It all works out in the end, ahem but anyways you dont see anyone taking the obvious solution
Jeremy
Labor shortages, why do people think the Tech industry is the only profession with a 'shortage'
I dont know how many if you really care or know much about cars but a good auto mechanic is difficult to find.
Talented mechanics are like everyone else, if you want one a cut above the rest its expensive because we all know for everyone who 'gets' programming or 'gets' car mechanics 10 other people dont get it and they are just riding the wave.
My personal experiences have been pretty interesting int he mechanics field.
I am restoring a 1971 Mach I (mustang), and its a Project Car of mine and its definately a labor of love since I bought the whole car for 400 dollars >:)
I usually discuss parts to buy and how to do something with a mechanic at the mustang shop that does work on my other mustang they are a bunch of really good folks.
Just after uhm getting my car running (I rebuilt the engine from the ground up and only got stuck twice) they were impressed enough to offer me a part-time position...
So I really dont think that this "shortage" is in just IT, I think its any highly skilled career you are going to find the ratio of sig:noise you will always get more noise
Jeremy
doh. thank, i should have caught that :-P
I dont either take these scenario's into mind.
:-P
I Upload much Mp3's to a server. Many people use a server for storing their Mp3's
Illegal? No perfectly fine everyones known about private FTP since the creation of time
So no laws are being broken yet right?
Well the administrator of this system writes a kewl program that goes through and has one master copy of all the EXACT duplicates and writes a program to delete all the extra data in the data space and symlinks to this master that everyones listening to were still legal becuase this system will still allow each user to retrieve his or her file
Said administrator realizes that when a new album is released many of the data is updated and this indexing program is massively loading down the server when the next britney spears album comes out. so he just decides to buy one copy of this cd and anyone who cna prove they own a copy can get a "symlink" to the copy of it and listen to it.. have we crossed the line yet?
This is exactly what mp3 does (the later case) when does it cross the line, where is the in between in the later and second to last cases I present?
Jeremy
In dimes, that is One billion one hundred eighty million dimes.
Now do a quick calculation how much room a stack of dimes takes up. 10 Dollars in dimes is 100 dimes right. So that leaves us with 11 million dime rolls.
From there it dont take rocket science to realize that even if that was just 1 cubic inch (seems about right) we are talking 11 million CUBIC inches okay that is about 916 thousand cubic feet. Heh my apartment has about 1200 Square feet and the ceiling is about 8 feet high soo what 9600 Cubic feet, which means it would take roughly 100 of my apartments.. or.. my entire apartment compelx full of dimes right?
Yes that would be truly amusing to pull up 10 semis full of dimes.
Jeremy 11,800,000
I am working with an ASP which does full cross browswer stuff, almost all the scripting I do is purely to enhance functionality.. never just for show, tahts what marketing and flash presentations are for, dont let that *junk* in my mind get in the way or a useable product. :)
Jeremy
Uhm short answer Yes:
:-)
Why? Php is designed to do HTML Preprocessing, mod_perl *CAN* do it and you can actually write elegant code (check out slashcode) but I still think Php has several advantages.
Now that Php4 is out classes are very easy and nice to handle.. wow just write your DB class and use it all over the place? changing databases? No problem no DBI kludge here, just rewrite your database interface class and viola your code is still the same.
Ive done this and used it and it works.
Ive about killed myself trying it with Perl.
Ive been doin ColdFusion/Php for almost 2 years and Perl does *fit* but for Development time I like Php because its what im familiar with (not thats personal not a plus or minus for perl)
But php has a whole bunch of quick functions such as encoding a string into URL format, decoding it coding HTML special characters.. the list goes on
Its all done with RAD methodology in mind.
You can write nice clean code with php that is GREAT for projects and code reusability now.
With Perl you want something you gotta download 900 modules and it just drives me to distraction trying to decide to find a piece of code already written, write my own, get it all working ahh.. it just comes off as kludge I am one of those poor souless web developers who could never find and make peace with Perl.
I *DO* like perl for doing some things, and I think its still viable for web development.. just if the shoe fits wear it right? Php is awesome and has all you need in one central place. Perl you ahve to pick and choose and hunt.
Jeremy
*sigh* I think most people miss the point of why Katz is allowed to post here.
Okay everyone and their borthers dog has established katz is not always fluent and PC with his GEEK terminology, bitching about it detracts FURTHER from the conversation, politely pointing it out and then contributing to the conversation helps.
Anyhow why is he here? He brings up an idea he elaborates to a good degree (wordy at least) then we can all discuss it, So of the main point is a little off it is still very interesting to ocmpare and contrast some modern fiction's vision for the world with how things appear to be going.
STOP complaning and start adding to the discussion..
Jeremy
Wow.. does anyone need to even say anything funny other than the specifications for this thing to get a grim chuckle.
Its like who in the hell wants to pay MORE money for something that takes LOTS more power and lots MORE space for some bastard video card.. ugh
Jeremy