You won't die, but you won't be human, either. You go look at how some children who "don't like to read" are doing sometime.
Not all games are art. Nobody's missing anything important in their lives if they never played Counter-Strike. But some demonstrably are important parts of modern culture, and as such, they need to be a part of our common experience, the same as literature and film.
...Wait, is that it? I bet it is, isn't it? We just need an analog for the good shit for this argument to be accepted. books:literature::movies:film::games:??? Find that word and I bet the media snobs will be just rushing to donate to public gaming funds. XD
In both this and the restaurant example in the next post down, there are actual materials used that need to be paid for. Intellectual property is the type that shouldn't exist.
None of what I said implies that artists won't get paid. What it does imply is that the economic model of art will be a more ethical one. In the music industry already, artists have had stunning success with "name-your-price" sales, basically busking over the Internet. That is how all art should work, private commissions and public endowments aside.
I am all for a financial incentive to produce art, I just don't think the producer should get to decide on the price.
It's funny, honestly, that you would pick Spore in particular. Your argument would make more sense if you were talking about Quake or some other mindless dross, but Spore, in point of fact, is a prime example of an artful game that needs to be part of the collective property. Look at what's in it. It is, itself, an outlet for creativity. It is groundbreaking in so many ways. It has, to put it simply, advanced the state of the art. There are people out there who really need to see it, because they will learn from it, and it will provoke profound thought and feeling. Competently-produced art such as Spore is a resource that should be available to everyone because it generates humanity. It shows us things about the world and ourselves that make us more than walking piles of juicy clockwork. That's why the humanities are called that.
Putting a price tag on humanity is fundamentally unethical. The poor have just as much right to culture as anyone else, and every patron of the arts has the right to be discerning and pay for things after they've determined that the work is to their taste.
Yes, it makes you a shill. I've never heard anyone not in the industry as rabid as you. I respect artists and their work as much as you, I just think that there are more important things at stake than their paycheck. Sane life depends on free culture.
The art isn't theirs to sell is my whole point. In a vacuum, you can sell whatever you want, but in the real world, some things belong to everybody. The air, the water supply, food to a certain extent, parks, all of these things belong to society because they are important to society's health. Given the importance of culture to the educational process, and the detrimental effect modern corporate culture has had on the citizens' ability to produce new work, I sincerely and firmly believe that culture should be on this list.
Others clearly agree with me. We have libraries and museums, public endowments for the production and performance of things in all media, public television, even free access to movies, in many cases. There are absolutely no provisions for games however, and music has become so commercialized that the extent to which access to it is legally free is meaningless. Both of these industries must be taken to task for their excess and opened to the people. The power over the transaction needs to be back where it belongs: in the hands of the patron of arts.
I'm not self-centered. This is about what's good for society.
What DRM in Portal? Steam is the only thing with a DRM scheme I don't hate. It's a part of the industry where I know indie devs have a chance, and my money is going to the artists, and there's always good deals, and most importantly it always works, period. If you had a problem with Steam, I'd put money on it being because you did something wrong. But even if you did, Valve tech support is great so... I don't know this whole complaint is just alien to me.
So, which part of the industry do you work for? There's no way I'll ever believe somebody who isn't paid to be on that team will ever bat for it.
Some of us "dirty bastards" have a damn good reason to do what we do. The way art and culture is commodified in this society is dangerous and wrong, and is responsible for many of the corporate abuses we see today. I don't feel that I'm stealing anything when I download a game, because the company that made it doesn't own it and can't sell it to me. Art and entertainment are, in a sane society, services which each person pays for in proportion to the piece's personal value to them. The companies I like will get my money after I have played their game and determined whether it deserves to be in my personal collection or not. Until then, it is part of the library of collective consciousness which must be free to access in any free society.
If you're not using something that gives you alerts when you actually have one that isn't in your spam folder, you deserve whatever you get for living in 1998.
At this point, armed insurrection is the only way for anybody to change anything. The voting process has been defunct since before the Union was established due to gerrymandering, for several decades due to both major parties being crypto-fascist, and recently due to rigged machines. It is true that anyone who dares to physically oppose the US government is almost certain to die, but with enough numbers, change can still be effected. If a thousand men with rifles marched to Washington and got as much politico blood on their hands as they could, that number is too high for them to kill us without consequences. A thousand US citizens' lives can't be swept under the rug in the way even a hundred could be.
The mirror test is a stupid standard for this. Many birds have very keen eyesight. Many mammals have what we would consider deficient eyesight, and identify other beings mainly by scent.
Hmmmm. Wonder how that might affect one's ability to use a mirror.
Am I the only one who got slightly excited about this being Duke Nukem Forever and then feeling absolutely gutted upon realizing it was 3D?
Yes.
Nobody with any sense ever wants to play DNF. It would be a disaster if they ever did make it, basically a machine of pure hype-fueled hype that they may as well call Snakes on a Plane: The Game for all the people who say they're waiting would actually buy it.
It would also be a disaster because we will have lost 11 years of our culture. DNF has always been the game that will never exist. How else will we say "never" if it actually comes out? I sudder to think of this loss. If 3D Realms absolutely insists on not just packing up and going home, they should do the right thing and just start working on other projects. Maybe even a Duke with a different name, I don't care. But DNF always has to be their vaporware flagship, or I will just cry.
Describes any sort of park over here too, we just really love pretending to be shocked by it. We wouldn't have it any other way, though. What good is getting out of the house if there's nobody worse than you to gawk at?
Well, that's what we need right now, isn't it? Isn't that what all the complaining is about? We need a technology that is marketable, and we're more than a little tired of "huge breakthroughs" that come with "it's still in the pipe" at the end. They're starting to smell alot more like false hope now.
Slashdot Mirror
You won't die, but you won't be human, either. You go look at how some children who "don't like to read" are doing sometime.
...Wait, is that it? I bet it is, isn't it? We just need an analog for the good shit for this argument to be accepted. books:literature::movies:film::games:??? Find that word and I bet the media snobs will be just rushing to donate to public gaming funds. XD
Not all games are art. Nobody's missing anything important in their lives if they never played Counter-Strike. But some demonstrably are important parts of modern culture, and as such, they need to be a part of our common experience, the same as literature and film.
In both this and the restaurant example in the next post down, there are actual materials used that need to be paid for. Intellectual property is the type that shouldn't exist.
None of what I said implies that artists won't get paid. What it does imply is that the economic model of art will be a more ethical one. In the music industry already, artists have had stunning success with "name-your-price" sales, basically busking over the Internet. That is how all art should work, private commissions and public endowments aside.
I am all for a financial incentive to produce art, I just don't think the producer should get to decide on the price.
It's funny, honestly, that you would pick Spore in particular. Your argument would make more sense if you were talking about Quake or some other mindless dross, but Spore, in point of fact, is a prime example of an artful game that needs to be part of the collective property. Look at what's in it. It is, itself, an outlet for creativity. It is groundbreaking in so many ways. It has, to put it simply, advanced the state of the art. There are people out there who really need to see it, because they will learn from it, and it will provoke profound thought and feeling. Competently-produced art such as Spore is a resource that should be available to everyone because it generates humanity. It shows us things about the world and ourselves that make us more than walking piles of juicy clockwork. That's why the humanities are called that.
Putting a price tag on humanity is fundamentally unethical. The poor have just as much right to culture as anyone else, and every patron of the arts has the right to be discerning and pay for things after they've determined that the work is to their taste.
Yes, it makes you a shill. I've never heard anyone not in the industry as rabid as you. I respect artists and their work as much as you, I just think that there are more important things at stake than their paycheck. Sane life depends on free culture.
The art isn't theirs to sell is my whole point. In a vacuum, you can sell whatever you want, but in the real world, some things belong to everybody. The air, the water supply, food to a certain extent, parks, all of these things belong to society because they are important to society's health. Given the importance of culture to the educational process, and the detrimental effect modern corporate culture has had on the citizens' ability to produce new work, I sincerely and firmly believe that culture should be on this list.
Others clearly agree with me. We have libraries and museums, public endowments for the production and performance of things in all media, public television, even free access to movies, in many cases. There are absolutely no provisions for games however, and music has become so commercialized that the extent to which access to it is legally free is meaningless. Both of these industries must be taken to task for their excess and opened to the people. The power over the transaction needs to be back where it belongs: in the hands of the patron of arts.
I'm not self-centered. This is about what's good for society.
What DRM in Portal? Steam is the only thing with a DRM scheme I don't hate. It's a part of the industry where I know indie devs have a chance, and my money is going to the artists, and there's always good deals, and most importantly it always works, period. If you had a problem with Steam, I'd put money on it being because you did something wrong. But even if you did, Valve tech support is great so... I don't know this whole complaint is just alien to me.
...The DRM on Portal. *scratches head*
So, which part of the industry do you work for? There's no way I'll ever believe somebody who isn't paid to be on that team will ever bat for it.
Some of us "dirty bastards" have a damn good reason to do what we do. The way art and culture is commodified in this society is dangerous and wrong, and is responsible for many of the corporate abuses we see today. I don't feel that I'm stealing anything when I download a game, because the company that made it doesn't own it and can't sell it to me. Art and entertainment are, in a sane society, services which each person pays for in proportion to the piece's personal value to them. The companies I like will get my money after I have played their game and determined whether it deserves to be in my personal collection or not. Until then, it is part of the library of collective consciousness which must be free to access in any free society.
If you're not using something that gives you alerts when you actually have one that isn't in your spam folder, you deserve whatever you get for living in 1998.
...who took one look at this and thought "good."
Yes, and they will continually improve it. How terrible.
At this point, armed insurrection is the only way for anybody to change anything. The voting process has been defunct since before the Union was established due to gerrymandering, for several decades due to both major parties being crypto-fascist, and recently due to rigged machines. It is true that anyone who dares to physically oppose the US government is almost certain to die, but with enough numbers, change can still be effected. If a thousand men with rifles marched to Washington and got as much politico blood on their hands as they could, that number is too high for them to kill us without consequences. A thousand US citizens' lives can't be swept under the rug in the way even a hundred could be.
Forget that. Shouldn't we have regular updates on whether or not Charles Babbage is still dead? He's the father of computing itself, for fuck's sake!
Why isn't this post tagged "oldbar?"
Those are Oompa-Loompas, you uncultured swine.
Yeah, I also often feel like God is the elephant in the middle of the room around here. :/
The mirror test is a stupid standard for this. Many birds have very keen eyesight. Many mammals have what we would consider deficient eyesight, and identify other beings mainly by scent.
Hmmmm. Wonder how that might affect one's ability to use a mirror.
Am I the only one who got slightly excited about this being Duke Nukem Forever and then feeling absolutely gutted upon realizing it was 3D?
Yes.
Nobody with any sense ever wants to play DNF. It would be a disaster if they ever did make it, basically a machine of pure hype-fueled hype that they may as well call Snakes on a Plane: The Game for all the people who say they're waiting would actually buy it.
It would also be a disaster because we will have lost 11 years of our culture. DNF has always been the game that will never exist. How else will we say "never" if it actually comes out? I sudder to think of this loss. If 3D Realms absolutely insists on not just packing up and going home, they should do the right thing and just start working on other projects. Maybe even a Duke with a different name, I don't care. But DNF always has to be their vaporware flagship, or I will just cry.
You just got Dukerolled. :V
Afterthought: Why else is Wal-Mart so popular?
Describes any sort of park over here too, we just really love pretending to be shocked by it. We wouldn't have it any other way, though. What good is getting out of the house if there's nobody worse than you to gawk at?
We're talking about Seattle, so most of the people there would've been cool with that if the janitor had just visited more often.
;_;
God, I wish I didn't have to move.
Well, that's what we need right now, isn't it? Isn't that what all the complaining is about? We need a technology that is marketable, and we're more than a little tired of "huge breakthroughs" that come with "it's still in the pipe" at the end. They're starting to smell alot more like false hope now.
Durk a durrrr! :(
All they need to do if it's got to be green is to get Ruby Rhod on the case.