The point is that Sony didn't have to. Sony could easily have said to Lik-Sang, "We're within ourtlegal rights to request that you not import PS3. We ask that you cease and desist. Legal action will not benefit either of us, but it may become necessary if this can not be resolved between the two of us."
And that's exactly what they did do. Over a full year ago. Lik-Sang had over a year to cease and desist. It didn't.
Come off it. Lik-Sang sold grey imports and was subject European rules governing such things. Sony was entirely within their rights and the law to bring suit. The specifics of the action and the judgement can be read here.
Lik-Sang could have lived on if they so chose, selling peripherals, cables, games and suchlike. I half expect that they probably will, and this winding up is all part of some convoluted ploy to get out of paying Sony any money. Expect to see a mysterious selled called Sik-Lang appear sometime soon on Ebay.
There are sites such as metacritic.com and gamerankings.com which tot up all the ratings for a game from dozens of sites and give an average. Just like with Rotten Tomatoes and films, it gives you a fair idea on whether a game is any good or a stinking heap of shit.
It can be useful to look at especially if some site has a weird rating system, or Nintendo or Sony buy a good review. Naturally you still have to read reviews to see if the game appeals to you but these site help there too since you have links to dozens of reviews all within a single page.
It appears that many people enjoy being served the same warmed up shit year after year. Not me.
I just ignore EA games now simply because every time I've bought one its turned out to be superficially OK but bugged, slow to load, mediocre and sometimes downright broken. And their business model means you are unlikely to get much support for your game if it does turn out to be broken since they'll use that as a reason you should buy the expansion pack / sequel which allegedly fixes the problem.
Simply put, they don't care. Games are a means to an end. They don't give a shit whether the game is any good or not, just that it sells. If that's their attitude then fine, but I only have so much money and it won't be going to EA.
I think the suing them for the PSP reason is bullshit too, but I expect they wanted to get the boot in before the PS3 was released. Then the reasons would have been pretty concrete.
Japanese PS3s may not be certified (the CE mark) for Europe, don't run at the proper voltage (requiring an enormous step-down converter) and don't play European regional content (DVDs, games, BDs). They might have an English language setting and they might allow the timezone to be set but that's all you can hope for. Even the online functionality may be horked since you probably have to register (and read Japanese) with a Japanese address and credit card to get going. Even if you got through all that you'd have lots of Japanese buddies, horrific lag and a subpar experience.
I guess Sony is worried for a many reasons - a) that Lik-Sang will bleed the market that these things are meant to be sold in (e.g. if 5000 consoles go to the EU that's 5% of their local launch market gone), b) that the devices will be dead money since people will buy the console and maybe a occasional of games but leave the online aspect alone c) Lik-Sang will slip the dead / fried / bricked PS3s back into the Japanese supply chain and burden Sony with the costs.
The PSP really doesn't have many of these issues. I bought a PSP on a trip to Canada. I had no intention of paying rip-off prices for the movies, so it worked fine for me. The charger works on a range of voltages and is CE certified. Aside from UMD region protection on movies, there isn't much else that distinguishes one PSP from another. I even bought my USB / charger cable & memory stick from Lik-Sang. However I did drop the thing and break the UMD drive and discovered that my US/Canada warranty was worth precisely nothing in Europe. I had to repair the thing myself.
I don't know why everyone is whining about Sony. Nintendo busted Lik-Sang for selling Gameboy copy devices. MS, Sony AND Nintendo busted them for modchips. Sony busted them for grey imports. Fact is that every console maker had the knives out for Lik-Sang. It may well be that they were a decent e-tailer (they were when I ordered some stuff) but they sure as hell rubbed up the console makers the wrong way. I guarantee that none of them feels the slightest sympathy for Lik-Sang. If it wasn't Sony it would have been Microsoft or Nintendo. Quit ragging with the "Boycott Sony" bullshit unless you intend to boycott the other games consoles too.
The mention of "substantial costs" suggests the size of the judgment may have been what caused Lik-Sang to close its doors.
More likely it's because Lik-Sang has a distribution warehouse in Germany somewhere that "caches" items for speedier delivery to the EU. If Sony have been awarded damages in the UK they could probably go after their EU operation to recover that money. Lik-Sang have just decided to cut and run.
It's not the first time they've been embroiled in battles with the console makers. Nintendo, Sony AND Microsoft have all been involved in lawsuits against them before now. Why pick on Sony? Nintendo or Microsoft won't be shedding any tears that Lik-Sang have gone. They might be a little bemused to watch Slashdot fanbois have a go at Sony for it, but they'd be as glad if their own suits had shut them down.
No, they sue somebody for grey importing their products into the EU without their permission. You'd have to ask an economist where the harm is, but Sony clearly think there is some or it wouldn't have taken this action.
To add to my submission, I think we should outright BOYCOTT Sony.
I can think of things about Sony that should be boycotted - DRM music for example. But them forcing a grey importer to stop fucking with their business should not be one of them. Nintendo and Microsoft would do no different. All console makers have gone after modchippers, grey importers and the like, Lik-Sang is just one of them.
Whether you love or hate Sony, the simple fact is that you need the producer's permission before grey importing items into Europe for distribution. Lik-Sang didn't have it. They know they didn't have it. They steamed on regardless. In fact they must have known that Sony were vehemently going to stop the practice. But perhaps they hoped to last long enough to coin it in from the PS3. With that bubble burst, better to take the money and run.
That's too bad for Lik-Sang, but it seems like a rather dubious proposition for them to have built a house on sand in the first place. I have to say that I've used them in the past and they were a speed and efficient service, but if their main capital is made from selling modchips or imported consoles... well they only have themselves to blame.
"In sending documents to opponents, Thompson would frequently attach a photocopy of his driver's license, with a photo of Batman pasted over his own, just to make sure they knew who they were dealing with."
I'm sure Lik-Sang will still sell PSPs, but a cloud is hanging over their Europe sales. They have a European warehouse operation that "caches" certain items for faster delivery, so they are vulnerable to action in the EU. I have no idea what the situation is with US exports, but I expect the price differential means Europe is their main market. I've bought memory sticks & cables from them before and I think they're a fine service - certainly far cheaper than things in Europe even with their cut.
I agree that I wouldn't be too keen to buy anything like a console off them. Seems like asking for it, especially with a new console. Who knows what's going to break or malfunction on your shiny new machine? Even if Lik-Sang replaces your console, you'd be waiting months for them to supply another one. By then the thing will nearly be out in Europe anyway.
And what do Lik-Sang do with the busted ones? I'm sure Sony would tell them to take a hike since the warranty would be void, so they either have to sell them back to unsuspecting customers or get them returned through a retail store (e.g. a "customer" buys a new PS3 in another store, returning the broken PS3 and exchanges it for another PS3). I expect Sony and the store would be extremely unhappy about that latter option. It means Sony is burdened with replacing out of warranty PS3s and there is less supply and demand for their domestic customers.
While I live in Europe and would love a PS3, I don't see any reason for trusting my cash with any importer. I bought a PSP in Canada and brought it back to the EU where it wasn't out at the time. It worked fine until I dropped it, and then I discovered that Sony wouldn't replace it. I had to repair the thing myself using components bought off the net. Dissecting a PSP is a very traumatic experience I can tell you.
Yes, I'm absolutely sure of it. Yellow Dog Linux (a Redhat spinoff for PowerPC) is being advertised even as we speak for the PS3. I don't know what form it will take, or what things in the PS3 will be available to homebrewers but it exists and people will make use of it.
Even the PS2 version of Linux was supposed to be okay - it was just by the time you forked over for the network adapter, harddrive, VGA adapter, keyboard & mouse, that the thing cost far more than you got back in terms of performance or usefulness. The PS3 has networking, harddrive out of the box, ample performance and supports any USB keyboard or mouse. I truly expect that you could plug a PS3 into a monitor, keyboard & mouse and use the thing as a desktop environment.
What is not obvious is whether Linux is at the expense of console gameplay or if the two can co-exist. If the two live side by side, even with a reboot required, I think I would be delighted to buy a PS3. Afterall then we're talking about something costing no more than a Mac Mini but which can kick seven shades of shit out of it for games and multimedia AND runs a Linux desktop.
It would be my assertion that people would rather buy polished turds than unpolished ones,
Well clearly that's not true because Apple was seriously obsolete by the late 90's and everyone knew it. Even Apple knew it or they wouldn't have been so keen to jump to OS X. My Dual-CPU G4 which I got circa 2001 even shipped with Mac OS 9 and horrible it was too - it worked fine when it worked, but it was very easy to hang it. Far, far easier than any version of Windows.
That doesn't mean PCs are without their faults, but the simple fact is that Windows (via NT) has been a proper pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system since the early 90s. And even the weird 16-bit / 32-bit hybrid Windows 95 / 98 / Me were "good enough" for lesser machines.
As for the "myth of the cheap PC", the simple fact is it's not a myth. Macs have traditionally been expensive and proprietary. Nowadays with their PC hardware this is not so true but they are still expensive. I've mulled upgrading my Mac environment more than once though I'm still working out what to get. But to me they are occupy the top end compared to PC kit with equivalent specs. I keep thinking that the only reason I could justify an upgrade is OS X. The Intel hardware has been pretty meh and certainly not worth an upgrade on its own merits.
Geez, the whole Apple is more expensive still perpetuates even though it is not as true as it once was.
That's why I say moderately. I know there is some price overlap with Macs but you can get much cheaper than a Mac with comparable specs if you look around. I expect without too much effort you could find something equivalent to a MacBook for several hundred dollars less. Where Apple score is that they get the new stuff out first so it's hard to make a comparison. If ever Intel get tired of giving the first shipments to Apple, I think they could be in trouble.
Apples failed in the 90s because Mac OS "Classic" was a polished turd and the cost of Apples was expensive compared to PCs. It's no wonder Apple almost sunk without a trace.
With OS X and hardware which is merely moderately expensive, they might stand a better chance, but it's hard to see how they'll ever really compete with MS Windows. I guess from Apple's perspective, even if their share rises from 2% to 4%, that is still a 100% increase for them even if it's still insignificant to to a market from a whole.
We manufacturer X number of devices to sell in Japan, and budget accordingly.
Lik-Sang buy up a ton of those devices, simultaneously gouging prices and fucking up our market.
How to stop Lik-Sang doing this????
Any applicable law or statute.
In this case TFA says grey imports from outside the EU are illegal under UK / EU law so is no surprise that Sony chose to invoke that law. I doubt Nintendo or Microsoft would do any different. In fact all three console makers are unsurprisingly united when fighting grey imports, modchips and so forth.
I can't see how voltage is relevant to the PSP but it sure as hell is for the PS3, as are issues about warranties etc. I guess Sony wanted to stamp on the practice before Lik-Sang started up with PS3 imports.
I now wonder if Sony are monitoring me. They certainly are modding these posts flaimbait consistently.
These are the game forums. You'll get partisan assholes for any console.
Much of the money you spend buying Sony gear goes to support anti consumer efforts from DRM, Infected CD's, Unusable due to DRM Blu-Ray HD-DVD. They may actually help kill the entire HD DVD effort.
Certainly true of many Sony products, but the PS3 appears to be fairly open as far as consoles go - certainly far, far, far more open than either the XBox 360 or Wii. You can even run Linux on it if you want.
As for Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, I couldn't care less who wins. Both Standards have a large amount of overlap and are virtually siblings. But pragmatism says Sony is going to win simply because it will flood the market with PS3s. Bitching about DRM seems pointless to me. The DVD had DRM, and so does its successor. Annoying I know, but its not as though ripped movies are going to disappear because of it - anything you can watch or hear can be ripped.
No, it's probably a ploy to sell the devices in the territories that they were meant to be sold in and stop Lik-Sang or whoever from gouging on the grey market. The worst gouging I ever saw was in Amsterdam airport who were selling an imported PSP for 399 euros before it had been released in Europe.
The PS3 can run Linux so it already has its own OS. It's not clear if Yellow Dog Linux 5.0 is the official Linux for the PS3, but it's still a pretty awesome to see it at all. The FAQ even says you can download it for free (though paying for it gets you updates). Interestingly YDL has a Cell SDK and cluster management software. So you really could build a Beowulf cluster of these.
Details are pretty light so far. I'd like to know if YDL runs alongside the PS3 cross bar media interface, resides in it, or what.
America or Slashdot (same thing for me, as I get all my news here)
Slashdot is the absolute worst place to get your console news. Zonk simply doesn't accept any news which is negative about the Wii / Xbox or positive about the PS3.
Go to somewhere like Kotaku.com where you get unbiased (and unvarnished) news for all consoles. Every console and game gets their fair share of the kicks and praise as they deserve, based on the news, not the puerile whims of a fanboy with a grudge.
Utter nonsense. The PS3 matches or outclasses the XBox 360 in most respects. Even when you compare the "basic" PS3 to the "premium" XBox 360 the $100 differential is easily justifiable.
The XBox 360 has been out for a year so of course it has a lot of exclusives. Give the Wii and PS3 a year and they'll have a lot of exclusives too.
I'm not sure measurement of exclusives is necessarily a good way to compare systems anyway. The GameCube had a disproportionate number of exclusives and not for a good reason. In the GameCube's case it was because the system trailed into 3rd place and 3rd parties could not be bothered with it. Even if the Wii takes off, it too will need a lot of exclusives, simply because the system is underpowered compared to the 360 or PS3 making porting unfeasible.
Slashdot Mirror
And that's exactly what they did do. Over a full year ago. Lik-Sang had over a year to cease and desist. It didn't.
So what? What is the point of bring suit against them in one country if they can continue with impunity selling their goods in another?
Lik-Sang could have lived on if they so chose, selling peripherals, cables, games and suchlike. I half expect that they probably will, and this winding up is all part of some convoluted ploy to get out of paying Sony any money. Expect to see a mysterious selled called Sik-Lang appear sometime soon on Ebay.
It can be useful to look at especially if some site has a weird rating system, or Nintendo or Sony buy a good review. Naturally you still have to read reviews to see if the game appeals to you but these site help there too since you have links to dozens of reviews all within a single page.
I just ignore EA games now simply because every time I've bought one its turned out to be superficially OK but bugged, slow to load, mediocre and sometimes downright broken. And their business model means you are unlikely to get much support for your game if it does turn out to be broken since they'll use that as a reason you should buy the expansion pack / sequel which allegedly fixes the problem.
Simply put, they don't care. Games are a means to an end. They don't give a shit whether the game is any good or not, just that it sells. If that's their attitude then fine, but I only have so much money and it won't be going to EA.
Japanese PS3s may not be certified (the CE mark) for Europe, don't run at the proper voltage (requiring an enormous step-down converter) and don't play European regional content (DVDs, games, BDs). They might have an English language setting and they might allow the timezone to be set but that's all you can hope for. Even the online functionality may be horked since you probably have to register (and read Japanese) with a Japanese address and credit card to get going. Even if you got through all that you'd have lots of Japanese buddies, horrific lag and a subpar experience.
I guess Sony is worried for a many reasons - a) that Lik-Sang will bleed the market that these things are meant to be sold in (e.g. if 5000 consoles go to the EU that's 5% of their local launch market gone), b) that the devices will be dead money since people will buy the console and maybe a occasional of games but leave the online aspect alone c) Lik-Sang will slip the dead / fried / bricked PS3s back into the Japanese supply chain and burden Sony with the costs.
The PSP really doesn't have many of these issues. I bought a PSP on a trip to Canada. I had no intention of paying rip-off prices for the movies, so it worked fine for me. The charger works on a range of voltages and is CE certified. Aside from UMD region protection on movies, there isn't much else that distinguishes one PSP from another. I even bought my USB / charger cable & memory stick from Lik-Sang. However I did drop the thing and break the UMD drive and discovered that my US/Canada warranty was worth precisely nothing in Europe. I had to repair the thing myself.
I don't know why everyone is whining about Sony. Nintendo busted Lik-Sang for selling Gameboy copy devices. MS, Sony AND Nintendo busted them for modchips. Sony busted them for grey imports. Fact is that every console maker had the knives out for Lik-Sang. It may well be that they were a decent e-tailer (they were when I ordered some stuff) but they sure as hell rubbed up the console makers the wrong way. I guarantee that none of them feels the slightest sympathy for Lik-Sang. If it wasn't Sony it would have been Microsoft or Nintendo. Quit ragging with the "Boycott Sony" bullshit unless you intend to boycott the other games consoles too.
More likely it's because Lik-Sang has a distribution warehouse in Germany somewhere that "caches" items for speedier delivery to the EU. If Sony have been awarded damages in the UK they could probably go after their EU operation to recover that money. Lik-Sang have just decided to cut and run.
It's not the first time they've been embroiled in battles with the console makers. Nintendo, Sony AND Microsoft have all been involved in lawsuits against them before now. Why pick on Sony? Nintendo or Microsoft won't be shedding any tears that Lik-Sang have gone. They might be a little bemused to watch Slashdot fanbois have a go at Sony for it, but they'd be as glad if their own suits had shut them down.
No, they sue somebody for grey importing their products into the EU without their permission. You'd have to ask an economist where the harm is, but Sony clearly think there is some or it wouldn't have taken this action.
I can think of things about Sony that should be boycotted - DRM music for example. But them forcing a grey importer to stop fucking with their business should not be one of them. Nintendo and Microsoft would do no different. All console makers have gone after modchippers, grey importers and the like, Lik-Sang is just one of them.
Whether you love or hate Sony, the simple fact is that you need the producer's permission before grey importing items into Europe for distribution. Lik-Sang didn't have it. They know they didn't have it. They steamed on regardless. In fact they must have known that Sony were vehemently going to stop the practice. But perhaps they hoped to last long enough to coin it in from the PS3. With that bubble burst, better to take the money and run.
That's too bad for Lik-Sang, but it seems like a rather dubious proposition for them to have built a house on sand in the first place. I have to say that I've used them in the past and they were a speed and efficient service, but if their main capital is made from selling modchips or imported consoles... well they only have themselves to blame.
Is that Batman or batshit?
Tell him about the red hot gay action to be had in Bully.
I agree that I wouldn't be too keen to buy anything like a console off them. Seems like asking for it, especially with a new console. Who knows what's going to break or malfunction on your shiny new machine? Even if Lik-Sang replaces your console, you'd be waiting months for them to supply another one. By then the thing will nearly be out in Europe anyway.
And what do Lik-Sang do with the busted ones? I'm sure Sony would tell them to take a hike since the warranty would be void, so they either have to sell them back to unsuspecting customers or get them returned through a retail store (e.g. a "customer" buys a new PS3 in another store, returning the broken PS3 and exchanges it for another PS3). I expect Sony and the store would be extremely unhappy about that latter option. It means Sony is burdened with replacing out of warranty PS3s and there is less supply and demand for their domestic customers.
While I live in Europe and would love a PS3, I don't see any reason for trusting my cash with any importer. I bought a PSP in Canada and brought it back to the EU where it wasn't out at the time. It worked fine until I dropped it, and then I discovered that Sony wouldn't replace it. I had to repair the thing myself using components bought off the net. Dissecting a PSP is a very traumatic experience I can tell you.
Even the PS2 version of Linux was supposed to be okay - it was just by the time you forked over for the network adapter, harddrive, VGA adapter, keyboard & mouse, that the thing cost far more than you got back in terms of performance or usefulness. The PS3 has networking, harddrive out of the box, ample performance and supports any USB keyboard or mouse. I truly expect that you could plug a PS3 into a monitor, keyboard & mouse and use the thing as a desktop environment.
What is not obvious is whether Linux is at the expense of console gameplay or if the two can co-exist. If the two live side by side, even with a reboot required, I think I would be delighted to buy a PS3. Afterall then we're talking about something costing no more than a Mac Mini but which can kick seven shades of shit out of it for games and multimedia AND runs a Linux desktop.
Well clearly that's not true because Apple was seriously obsolete by the late 90's and everyone knew it. Even Apple knew it or they wouldn't have been so keen to jump to OS X. My Dual-CPU G4 which I got circa 2001 even shipped with Mac OS 9 and horrible it was too - it worked fine when it worked, but it was very easy to hang it. Far, far easier than any version of Windows.
That doesn't mean PCs are without their faults, but the simple fact is that Windows (via NT) has been a proper pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system since the early 90s. And even the weird 16-bit / 32-bit hybrid Windows 95 / 98 / Me were "good enough" for lesser machines.
As for the "myth of the cheap PC", the simple fact is it's not a myth. Macs have traditionally been expensive and proprietary. Nowadays with their PC hardware this is not so true but they are still expensive. I've mulled upgrading my Mac environment more than once though I'm still working out what to get. But to me they are occupy the top end compared to PC kit with equivalent specs. I keep thinking that the only reason I could justify an upgrade is OS X. The Intel hardware has been pretty meh and certainly not worth an upgrade on its own merits.
That's why I say moderately. I know there is some price overlap with Macs but you can get much cheaper than a Mac with comparable specs if you look around. I expect without too much effort you could find something equivalent to a MacBook for several hundred dollars less. Where Apple score is that they get the new stuff out first so it's hard to make a comparison. If ever Intel get tired of giving the first shipments to Apple, I think they could be in trouble.
With OS X and hardware which is merely moderately expensive, they might stand a better chance, but it's hard to see how they'll ever really compete with MS Windows. I guess from Apple's perspective, even if their share rises from 2% to 4%, that is still a 100% increase for them even if it's still insignificant to to a market from a whole.
In this case TFA says grey imports from outside the EU are illegal under UK / EU law so is no surprise that Sony chose to invoke that law. I doubt Nintendo or Microsoft would do any different. In fact all three console makers are unsurprisingly united when fighting grey imports, modchips and so forth.
I can't see how voltage is relevant to the PSP but it sure as hell is for the PS3, as are issues about warranties etc. I guess Sony wanted to stamp on the practice before Lik-Sang started up with PS3 imports.
These are the game forums. You'll get partisan assholes for any console.
Much of the money you spend buying Sony gear goes to support anti consumer efforts from DRM, Infected CD's, Unusable due to DRM Blu-Ray HD-DVD. They may actually help kill the entire HD DVD effort.
Certainly true of many Sony products, but the PS3 appears to be fairly open as far as consoles go - certainly far, far, far more open than either the XBox 360 or Wii. You can even run Linux on it if you want.
As for Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, I couldn't care less who wins. Both Standards have a large amount of overlap and are virtually siblings. But pragmatism says Sony is going to win simply because it will flood the market with PS3s. Bitching about DRM seems pointless to me. The DVD had DRM, and so does its successor. Annoying I know, but its not as though ripped movies are going to disappear because of it - anything you can watch or hear can be ripped.
No, it's probably a ploy to sell the devices in the territories that they were meant to be sold in and stop Lik-Sang or whoever from gouging on the grey market. The worst gouging I ever saw was in Amsterdam airport who were selling an imported PSP for 399 euros before it had been released in Europe.
Details are pretty light so far. I'd like to know if YDL runs alongside the PS3 cross bar media interface, resides in it, or what.
Slashdot is the absolute worst place to get your console news. Zonk simply doesn't accept any news which is negative about the Wii / Xbox or positive about the PS3.
Go to somewhere like Kotaku.com where you get unbiased (and unvarnished) news for all consoles. Every console and game gets their fair share of the kicks and praise as they deserve, based on the news, not the puerile whims of a fanboy with a grudge.
Utter nonsense. The PS3 matches or outclasses the XBox 360 in most respects. Even when you compare the "basic" PS3 to the "premium" XBox 360 the $100 differential is easily justifiable.
I'm not sure measurement of exclusives is necessarily a good way to compare systems anyway. The GameCube had a disproportionate number of exclusives and not for a good reason. In the GameCube's case it was because the system trailed into 3rd place and 3rd parties could not be bothered with it. Even if the Wii takes off, it too will need a lot of exclusives, simply because the system is underpowered compared to the 360 or PS3 making porting unfeasible.
An immediate question from watching these people. Why is everybody standing up?