PS3 Details From Sony Game Day

Gamespot has up the record of a liveblog from yesterday's Sony Game day event. They dish a medium-sized helping of dirt, with information like controller price ($50), first-party title price ($60), what is actually in the box, launch window titles, and a bit on what the online experience will offer. From the article: "2:04 p.m.: Hirai says the final boxed product is rolling off the assembly lines as we speak. Then he shows the retail packaging. He says they will have 22 launch-window titles, including games like FEAR, Call of Duty 3, Full Auto 2, Genji: Days of the Blade, NBA Live 07, NBA 2K7, NHL 2K7, Rainbow Six Vegas, Tony Hawk's Project 8, Untold Legends, and Riiidge Racer 7. (Yes, he said 'Riiidge.')" Meanwhile, 1up has some details on the PS3's pre-order status in Japan ... if you're curious. As well you might be, because importing a PS3 is illegal, doncha know.

Comments

Excuse me while my eyes bug out

[AKAImBatman]

Riiidge Racer 7. (Yes, he said 'Riiidge.')

It's good to know they're not taking themselves too seriously. That's something, at least. :)

Re:Excuse me while my eyes bug out

[tarun713]

Yeah, actually Kaz Hirai seems to be the only person from Sony who speaks about the PS3 to the press that has a level head on his shoulders, explains things thoroughly and well, and seems to be PERSONABLE, unlike Stringer or Kutaragi.

What "launch window titles" really means

[falcon5768]

That they are not actually comming WITH the launch but possibly weeks later, within the 2 month holiday season.

I seriously think Sony is going out of it's way to fuck this up, its too comical at this point for them not to be trying at screwing up the launch.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a week late with that comment, considering that the launch already sold out...

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[badasscat]

I seriously think Sony is going out of it's way to fuck this up, its too comical at this point for them not to be trying at screwing up the launch.

(rolls eyes)

What you're basing this on is the rants of fanboys - whether they be random people posting in forums and comments, or those posing as "journalists" and writing actual articles. There's really no distinction apart from some possibly better grammar.

The proof is in the pudding. The PS3 is out there. It's playable - it was playable at TGS, and it's sitting right now in Sony's building in Ginza in Tokyo. Anyone can walk in and play Minna no Golf and Gran Turismo in full HD on one of Sony's new 1080p Bravia displays. No need to listen to the inane ramblings of those who have never experienced the system anymore.

When you play the system, all your doubts melt away. I remember thinking "wait a minute, what are the supposed problems with this system again?"

The price is an absolute thing, true - even after giving the system a try, that doesn't change. But what does change is your perception of it. The PS3 is, at the moment, a luxury item, and it feels it - when you see it hooked up to a 60" Bravia LCD playing both games and Blu-Ray movies at 1080p, you start to get it. It is not even intended to be a mass market system yet.

And I think that's fine for now, given that there will only even be 400,000 units at launch. Remember the iPod in 2001? A lot of people said it was ridiculous to charge $400 for such a device. But it worked, and the price has gradually come down and the iPod itself made more of a commodity. That will happen with the PS3 too.

But to play a PS3 is to lust after a PS3. You will want one. Whether you can afford it yet or not is another matter, but I don't think that's really relevant to Sony's strategy, and I don't see anything about this launch that they've "fucked up".

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[ShadowsHawk]

"But to play a PS3 is to lust after a PS3." Three points. 1. My PC has been doing 'HD' for years. 2. My desire simply does not justify the cost. 3. Seven of the nine games listed are ports or sequels. I certainly can afford the PS3, but I simply don't believe that I would get $600 of fun out of the machine.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what you're saying is that in 2 to 3 years the PS3 will be a product that will be affordable to the mass market. What this means is 12 to 18 monts after developers have given up producing content for the PS3 because the userbase is too small and the development costs are too high.

What Sony fans seem to forget is the console war is mostly a sprint; the first console that controls enough of the market to pressure third-parties into giving them exclusive support wins. It doesn't matter that Sony's excuse is that they can't afford to sell it for less, or that they can't produce more units, if Microsoft or Nintendo has a 5 to 10 million unit lead come January of 2008 (which is plausable for both consoles) the PS3 will not be able to get any decent exclusive third party support and will perform in a similar range as the XBox/Gamecube/N64; possibly worse being that Sony games are not the ones that sell Sony consoles.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[thatguywhoiam]

Thank you for the reality dose, you beat me to it.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[necrozen]

Yeah man, listen - I don't know about all this sexy talk - but (aside from the bluray thing) my PC, which I built myself, blows the PS3 out of the water. I can do everything else you just said, and if I want to play bluray DVDs (I'm not really that interested in it) I could just buy a player.

To me, the system looks like a huge waste of money. Sony uses theis "IT'S LEET MAN!" attitude to attract consumers who define their own coolness by the products they own. I just don't buy into that school of thought. It just seems kinda dumb to me.

So I'm not getting hooked by this "IT'S A SYSTEM FOR THE ELITE, IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE" routine. That's just marketing man, get over yourself. They think the same tactics they used to push all those PS2's out the door so man years ago will work today, but they won't. Not on everyone. Some people will get hooked by it (your a great example), but most people are just going to ignore it and buy something else, whose going to wait around for the PS3 to stop being "FOR THE ELITE BUYER ONLY!" - not me. By the time it's for everyone, I will gbe comfortably playing Wii (and perhaps XBox 360, I haven't decided yet, but definately Wii).

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

Your PC can't run the latest games at 1920x1080 @ 60fps. It probably will in a year. This is the PS2 vs PC all over again, PC loses for a little while ...

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[amuro98]

That's partially true, but you have to also remember that Sony is the 300lb gorilla here. Well, OK, maybe not 300lbs anymore after their various screwups, but they're still seen by most people and casual gamers (ie. NO ONE HERE) as the market leader. Just based on that alone, Sony might be able to retain enough exclusive titles to once again be the leader this generation.

At any rate, I don't think we'll see Sony utterly dominating the market as decisively as they did with the PS2. And any sort of goodwill Sony has left after their performances with the press and tradeshows is gone. If Sony expects to stay in this market they're going to have to really knock gamers' socks off with the PS4.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Maul]

So for the complete Sony branded experience, not only do I need $600 for my PS3, but I need to shell out over $4000 for the 60" Bravia. Great. When I ask my boss for a raise, I'll be sure to mention I'll need the extra cash so I can play Riiiiige Racer the way Sony intends. Or maybe I can take out a home equity loan.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

Your PC is below the PS3. Please realize this. Full HD is 1920x1080p. You cannot (even with magic books) play Oblivion on a PC at full quality with all the fancy blinky stuff at this resolution. The PS3 will, for a time, trump everything that the PC has whether you assembled the pre-fab parts or not.

As far as the 360, it's more bad design. And before you flame me, ask "do I want to fast-forward MP3s on a $400 console?". The 360 can't do that and there's no goddamn good reason. It's MS. It's disconnect and it's not the center of my living room if it can only skip MP3's, no rewind, no fast-forward. Some things are nice, as usual, but they miss the polish or sell the polish in MCE edition.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

>I don't see anything about this launch that they've "fucked up".
You're kidding, right? Let's forget how late they are, how much it costs, how few they are going to make, and all the broken promises along the way and just look at the NEW problems this week.
1. The unit draws 2X the current of the 360. The means the unit has to dissipate 2X the heat of the 360, so don't tell me Sony isn't going to have overheating issues. And since they (proudly) display that they don't use a brick (ever get the feeling the PS3 is just Sony trying to knock-off the Xbox1?), the heat sources are concentrated inside the unit. It is appropriate that the thing looks like a George Forman Grill.
2. The controllers have non-removable rechargable batteries in them. Once they go, the controller has to be thrown away. I guess Sony found a place to dump their exploding lithium ion batteries...
3. Because of the non-removable batteries, you don't have the convenience of swapping batteries mid-game and continuing to play wireless. This is one of those features that isn't flashy, but once you've used it, you can't live without it. On the 360, if your batteries die mid-game you can quickly swap in another battery pack. Microsoft also gave you the option of using standard batteries or rechargable packs.
4. $50 for an HDMI cable? Tell me that isn't pure soaking. Heck, the PS3 doesn't even come with an S-Video cable (I bet 1080P looks awesome on composite output), guaranteeing at least one additional accessory purchase at retail.

I'm sure you'll enjoy you $900 PS3 bundle (if you can get one) and killing historically accurate Giant Enemy Crabs. Of course, you may want to turn up the air conditioning before powering up the PS3.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

Yes, a common argument. I dunno, I bought a TV in 2001 that does 1080p for $2k. It's lasted me for 5 years, it's not the best. However, even Oblivion looks good at 1024x768. It's sometimes not the quantity of pixels that matters but the quality that matters. My same TV plays the PS2 and Gamecube at 1080p but the 360 looks better. Same TV.

Yes, you miss out on 1080p but the 360 looks better at 1080i than my Gamecube because of quality, not quantity of pixels.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[ivan256]

This may come as a shock to you, but for the PS3 to succeed, *you* neither have to want one or buy one. The fact of the matter is that Sony came up with a business plan for sales of their machine, and they sold every single one they offered for the terms you considered unreasonable.

There are a lot of things out there that people think are overpriced... Things that people wish they could afford, but are just out of their reach for the time being. You just have to come to terms with the fact that those things are outside of your viable lifestyle, and you have to learn to live without until, if you're lucky, the price comes down to the point where you can afford them.

Think about new cars. Not even luxury cars, just ordinary everyday mass-market vehicles. When a brand new, highly-desireable model rolls off the line, there is a good chance that you'll have to pay more than you think the car is worth if you want to be one of the first to own one... Then as time goes by availability increases and the price becomes such that more people can afford it. During that early phase, though, people with more money than you, people you don't understand, will buy that car even though there are others on the market that provide better value for the money.

Game system manyfacturers have long been unusually altruistic with their initial system pricing, keeping the price artificially low even during the periods where supply far outstripped demand. Sony is the first manufacturer to come to their senses in this department, and I think you will find that next generation Microsoft will jump on the bandwagon. In the meantime, you're not rich enough to afford one of the first batch of PS3s (neither am I...). Tough.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[flewp]

And for everyone who feels the same way as you, there's enough people who feel the opposite for the launch units to sell out. The point is, your three points may be valid to you, but they do not represent everyone. I'm not saying you implied they do, but so many people bring up such points as a reason why the PS3 will fail. I think the PS3 will do quite fine, because as we've seen with past consoles, people are willing to pay even 3x as much for one after they've sold out the initial launch units. As time goes on, the price will drop, and more and more people will begin to see "my desire does not justify the cost" point dwindle away.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

when you see it hooked up to a 60" Bravia LCD playing both games and Blu-Ray movies at 1080p, you start to get it

I'll "get" that it looks exactly like watching an HD-DVD on a 60" Bravia LCD. Which looks surprisingly like watching a regular DVD on a no-brand 60" LCD, as long as you're not standing 2 feet from the screen.

HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is nice, but there just isn't enough content. Practically every movie ever made is on DVD, and they cost $8-$15 if you are willing to shop around. I already have a substantial DVD collection. So, tell me, why should I blow $600 for a Blu-Ray player?

I have a $500 LCD HDTV. It's got an LG Philips panel, 1366x768 (720p) native resolution, and component, DVI/HDCP, and VGA inputs. DVDs look great on it coming from my $40 Wal-Mart special "Progressive Scan" DVD player. TV looks crappy, but that's because the cable sucks here.

So, again, why should I spend more than my TV for a Blu-Ray player? I could drop $600 on a PS3 and not blink. I'm sure it's a damn fine system. But the question is, why is it $200 better than an XBOX 360, which has (right now) a bigger library of games, nicer controllers (come on, the SIXAXIS is just a warmed-over DualShock), and will connect to my Media Center PC so that I can watch recorded TV over the network.

Where's the $200 of value? Blu-Ray? Nope. I'm not paying $25 for a moive. I'm not going to blow $200 on a system for a format that may not even succeed. When Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players are $40, then we can start talking.

Sony keeps trying to convince us that we want to spend $600 on their PS3. Many people probably will - hell, a lot of people threw down $1000 for a standalone Blu-Ray player. But $600 can buy a lot - a 360 core and 6 games (if all you want to do is play games), a PS2 and a whole mess of games, a new TV, a year of digital cable. Sony is competing for our entertainment dollars, and they're going to have to do a better job convincing us that the PS3 is where to spend them.

Is the PS3 overpriced? No. There's a lot of value in that system. But there's also a lot of value in a Lexus. Sony's trying to sell a Lexus to a Corolla market.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[falcon5768]

/snicker... This right here is why no one takes Sony fanbois rants as serious.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Baldrash]

I felt exactly the same way when the PSP came out. Then I bought it, and the drought of good games has relegated it to dust collector status. Both the PSP and PS3 are impressive technically, but without worthwhile games (which we haven't seen much of, except White Knight) it's just going to leave most gamers cold.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Reapman]

rootkit, giant crabs, PS2 can do Toystory... for hte love of god do I have to listen to that inane babble for the next 15 years????

"1. The unit draws 2X the current of the 360. The means the unit has to dissipate 2X the heat of the 360, so don't tell me Sony isn't going to have overheating issues. And since they (proudly) display that they don't use a brick (ever get the feeling the PS3 is just Sony trying to knock-off the Xbox1?), the heat sources are concentrated inside the unit. It is appropriate that the thing looks like a George Forman Grill."

Possibly valid, I don't know since I don't have one / know anyone that has one... apparently you do tho.

"2. The controllers have non-removable rechargable batteries in them. Once they go, the controller has to be thrown away. I guess Sony found a place to dump their exploding lithium ion batteries..."

Did you know that the PS2 had non removable cables to power them? Once the cable goes... you'd have to buy a new controller!!!!

"3. Because of the non-removable batteries, you don't have the convenience of swapping batteries mid-game and continuing to play wireless. This is one of those features that isn't flashy, but once you've used it, you can't live without it. On the 360, if your batteries die mid-game you can quickly swap in another battery pack. Microsoft also gave you the option of using standard batteries or rechargable packs."

Wait for the 3rd party controllers, other then that, valid point.

"4. $50 for an HDMI cable? Tell me that isn't pure soaking. Heck, the PS3 doesn't even come with an S-Video cable (I bet 1080P looks awesome on composite output), guaranteeing at least one additional accessory purchase at retail."

Right, and the XBox, XBox 360, Gamecube, N64, PS2, PS1, SNES, NES always came with the highest end cable available right? I have to buy a new SVIdeo cable for my XBox, you know how much? $50 Canadian. $50 US for HDMI doesn't sound so bad.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

Your PC can't run the latest games at 1920x1080 @ 60fps

If you have a Geforce 7950 Quad SLi setup you could easily play any game at 1920x1080 @60fps and probably could have 16xAF and 16xAA going at the same time...

The PS3's GPU is probably similar to a Geforce 7800GTX, which is an excellent GPU but can not compete against the ultimate high end PCs; any PC developer will tell you that they're in a very bad position because the rate of improvement in the minimum requirements has never been slower whereas the rate of improvement in the target demographic's system has never been faster. How do you design a game that can run on a Pentium 4 2GHz with a Radeon 9800 and still take advantage of a the high end system I described?

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[tepples]

1. My PC has been doing 'HD' for years.

With how many players per machine? The PC appears not to support single-head simultaneous multiplayer in commercial titles. The vast majority of multiplayer PC games tend to require one PC and one copy of the game per player. You can use one $600 premium PS3, one $800 HDTV monitor, and n $60 games, or you can use four $500 entry-level PCs, four $300 monitors, and 4n $40 games.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

You could say the same thing about your comment. Mostly because full paragraphs aren't flamey quips that are intended to start a fight. I own most things that I have opinions on (excepting the PS3) and if I was a fanboi, I wouldn't own the 360. Right?

1. The 360 can't fast forward through MP3s, so if I want it to be the center of the living room... I lose functionality that my 1990 discman had? Major oversight imho.
2. I have a 360, gamecube, ps2. I will get the Wii and the PS3. Vote with your dollar.

The PS2 was slightly ahead of the PC for about a year and then it caught up, it's the same deal with the PS3. My 7800gtx can't play oblivion at 1920x1080 and I spent $600 for it. If you can play oblivion at full HD, please post pictures or it didn't happen.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[revlayle]

This may be redundant... but the iPod did not require third party software to use. You could put MP3s that you had on it it and go and use it anywhere. PS3 will require software/games to sell it (i know it can browse the web and play music and videos, not the main selling point i think - even then, this may apply to Blu-Ray movies to a degree, also), and if it takes too long to adopt, the software developers will pull out because they aren't making profits from developing for the system.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Echnin]

I don't know about 1920x1080, but my 7800GT ran Oblivion at 1600x1200. Not the best framerate, but not bad at all. And it didn't cost me anywhere near $600.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

If you have a Geforce 7950 Quad SLi setup you could easily play any game at 1920x1080 @60fps and probably could have 16xAF and 16xAA going at the same time...

Ok, good point. Let's go shopping!

- 7950GT from Newegg (times 4) = $1200
- We need a LCD monitor that can do 1920. Let's go with a Dell 24" = $1,199
- Quad pci-e motherboard = $200
- I'll assume we have a nice CPU and assume that we have nice memory that plays nice on the new chipset

Ok, we're at $2599 at the best. But then we have a PC that we can do other things with, like Folding @ Home. Oh wait, that only runs on ATI cards. Ok, well to avoid flaming anymore ... I guess it comes down to a few things:

- PCs are general purpose machines that don't compete with new consoles.
- Economies of scale, standard parts make consoles amazing bang-per-buck devices.
- PCs have advantages over consoles in many respects but not in "just play" features.
- People say their PCs do 1920. Maybe they have a really nice, old CRT? Maybe they have a 24" LCD?

The PS3's GPU is probably similar to a Geforce 7800GTX
Please source this. I say that the PS3's architecture is completely different from a PC in no comparable format except real-world tests that aren't even available yet. At the very minimum, people who have seen the PS3 in person running at 1080p have said it's "amazing and fluid". I haven't seen it yet.

How do you design a game that can run on a Pentium 4 2GHz with a Radeon 9800 and still take advantage of a the high end system I described?
You detect for card features, card model, opengl/dx version and whatever else you can:
if (glGetString(GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION) == "shiny happy version") {
  enableBlinkyBlinky();
}

or what-not. But I think what you were trying to hit on is the question of supporting change. Which is the advantage of consoles. Me, personally, I do other stuff than games so I try to put my money into my PC. However, very rarely have I seen this so-called upgradability. I put in a new video card and then fork-lift the whole thing:

- Changing CPU vendors for the best-of-breed CPU means a new PC-stack (mb,memory)
- Going from PCI to PCI-E means a new PC-stack (mb,memory,maybe cpu)
- Going from integrated intel 945 to something that runs Vista's Aero might mean any of the above.

As usual, there are trade-offs. But simply saying "upgradability of PC" doesn't always work out in practice. The way it's worked for me and my friends:

- New PC
- One new videocard upgrade that fits in XYZ slot
- Completely new PC because majority of old parts need to be replaced completely.

And to further illustrate the real point is, PCs are more iterative.
- New Console
- New PC
- One new videocard upgrade that fits in XYZ slot
- Completely new PC because majority of old parts need to be replaced completely.
- New Console ... If you were to keep up with the technology. Ah whatever, time will tell. Enthusiasts don't run anything. Dreamcast was a better system and the PS2 won (much to the anger of many). The Wii might be a better system, who knows what will happen. Certainly, the "Emotion Engine" was overhyped. But in reality, it delivered more than the PC did (for a while).

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

Consoles win on bang-per-buck. Your video card doesn't run by itself. Please include whole PC cost. And then talk about what PCs can do that consoles can, because it's apples and oranges. I guess people are inclined to say whatever, even though this has happened before. The PC couldn't hang with the PS2, many people bought the PS2 as their first DVD player and then the PC caught up, got DVD and passed the PS2. All the while, the PC's general purpose architecture cost people more to upgrade (see: throw out).

In some respects, the PC has the illusion of being upgradable. Motherboards cannot change CPU vendors. Video cards require different slot types and memory is hardly ever transferrable to next generation chipsets. But in some respects, the PC is more powerful because it is extendable. The console doesn't fill the workstation role. So then it goes back and forth.

PC Camp: The PS3 is too much.
Sony Camp: The PS3 is more powerful than your PC.
PC Camp: No it's not.
Sony Camp: Yes it is, you don't even have a monitor that does 1920x1080.
PC Camp: Yes I do.
Sony Camp: You can't run complex games like Oblivion at that resolution.
PC Camp: Yes I can.
Sony Camp: You have to turn down the quality.
PC Camp: No I don't.
Sony Camp: Then certainly it runs slow as crap.
PC Camp: No it doesn't.
Sony Camp: Then you paid $5000 for your quad SLI PC that sucks in 800w.
PC Camp: Ok, yeah that's me.
Sony Camp: Ok, so the PS3 is a good deal.
PC Camp: But I can't [insert application here] on it.

Yes and that is very true. PCs are general purpose computing devices that cost you a lot to try to compete with a dedicated, stable, simple, "designed to play" console. Oblivion just works on the 360/PS3 whereas on the PC you have to know that Nvidia can't do AA+HDR yet. /casts fanboy guard /lists systems he owns (all) /realizes the consumerism future is upon us

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you're including the HDTV in the cost of the PC. That's totally stupid.

Also, I got a nice flat 19 inch CRT that does 1600x1200@70Hz for 40 dollars used. It's not exactly 1080p but it's not different enough for any sane person to argue over.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[drinkypoo]

[...]1600x1200@70Hz for 40 dollars used. It's not exactly 1080p but it's not different enough for any sane person to argue over.

Uh, either it's full HD, or it isn't. If it isn't, then it has to be scaled down.

Anyone who actually cares about video quality will want to view it unscaled.

It might not be worth it to you to argue over it, that's fine. But don't pretend that 1600x1200 is a real substitute for full-HD, because it simply is not.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[VanillaBabies]

I'm pretty sure that the controller cables on the dualshock weren't made from technology that was known to lose its ability to hold a charge over time, so i don't think this particular comparison works. But otherwise, carry on.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Ender Ryan]

1600 * 1200 pixels == 1,920,000 pixels

1920 * 1080 pixels == 2,073,600 pixels

Almost the same number of pixels.

Why would it be scaled? How many games produce graphics in a target resolution and then scale? The only considerable difference here is the aspect ratio. That's it.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[drinkypoo]

The controllers have non-removable rechargable batteries in them. Once they go, the controller has to be thrown away. I guess Sony found a place to dump their exploding lithium ion batteries..."

Did you know that the PS2 had non removable cables to power them? Once the cable goes... you'd have to buy a new controller!!!!

Uh, that was really stupid. Cables only die when you abuse them; cutting them, rolling over them with your chair too many times, setting them on fire, etc. Batteries die when they have been charged and discharged enough times, when you use them as they are meant to be used.

Because of the non-removable batteries, you don't have the convenience of swapping batteries mid-game and continuing to play wireless.

Wait for the 3rd party controllers, other then that, valid point.

the future existence of third party wireless controllers does not invalidate his point in any way because third party controllers universally suck ass. even the one from logitech sucks, but only because they totally blew the feel of the controller and games designed to be played with one controller usually don't play well on another.

Right, and the XBox, XBox 360, Gamecube, N64, PS2, PS1, SNES, NES always came with the highest end cable available right? I have to buy a new SVIdeo cable for my XBox, you know how much? $50 Canadian. $50 US for HDMI doesn't sound so bad.

For your Xbox, or Xbox 360? I got a universal cable that does s-video, composite, and dual rca audio that works on Second-Gen SNES up through Gamecube, and works on Xbox, PS1, and PS2 for $10. I'll assume you mean Xbox 360. This is $30 US on Amazon, but Lik-Sang has one with optical audio output for US$6.95. Obviously, you aren't looking very hard.

Please, when you come up with some actual refutations, come back and try again. Until then, give up on this whole debating thing. You don't have what it takes - like supporting arguments.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[drinkypoo]

Actually most Lexuses are if anything designed worse than the cheaper Toyotas. I remember being in the auto shop at yuba college doing air conditioning work (I'm ASE certified, whee) and some chick brought in a Lexus with a clunk in the suspension. Turns out that the front suspension on this Lexus was designed with a non-replacable ball joint in the upper A-Arm (it's double wishbone, IIRC.) you have to replace the entire upper A-arm in order to replace the ball joint. Lexuses are big piles of shit and anyone who buys one over an Infiniti or even an Acura is a dumbass.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[drinkypoo]

If you're viewing Full-HD video on a 1600x1200 display then it's scaled down. Games aren't the only thing that PCs do, nor is that the only thing game consoles do these days. This is relevant. your display is not full-HD and no amount of pretending or wishing will make it so. You can't measure by the number of pixels, you have to measure by the number of missing pixels in any dimension which is missing pixels; the X resolution of a 1600x1200 display is only 83.333333(etc)% the X resolution of a full-HD display.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

> What you're basing this on is the rants of fanboys - whether they be random people posting in forums and comments, or those posing as "journalists" and writing actual articles. There's really no distinction apart from some possibly better grammar.

Such people are known as "customers." Products without them tend to fail.

Of course, I'm biased. I *still* don't like Sony thanks to that rootkit, among other things.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

Yeah, you're right about the monitor aspect. But I'm just making the point that most PCs can't even display native HD. The point on the number of pixels is a good one. However, no one is running nice and smooth at 1600x1200. Who cares, perhaps, for now, it's just a measure of the PS3's power. But good gameplay doesn't equal graphics all the time ... but graphics can enable good gameplay (like if I can see emotion, or see information that would otherwise have to be written in dialog or presented in a HUD).

Pure pixels is a bad measure and I should have brought it up. On the same HDTV (1080i), the gamecube looks worse than the 360. It's a testament to the console's power. My PC's video card was $600 and it can't do the real-time motion blur that PGR3 does. Is PGR3 a good game? Maybe for people who hate Gran Turismo's realism ... I think Test Drive Unlimited is a bit better of producing a decent driving sim, but then again, it's art/opinion. I can see it both ways.

- Outcome 1: The PS3 is great but no one bites like the PSP. "Whatever. $600 is too much. I'm not buying Vista or this. Technology is doing what I need it to do already."
- Outcome 2: The PS3 shames everything and no one can stand to look at anything less. "Man, I wish I could use the Wiimote on the PS3. The Wii is fun but let's play MGS again, did you just see that [graphic feature]?"
- Outcome 3: Somewhere in-between. Some pick their side. Some like Halo, some like the FF series. Some get all three consoles. Nothing much changes although the Internet forums make you believe that it has.

I'm exhausted. Mac/PCs wars ... now this ...

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Ender Ryan]

You're talking nonsense. "Full HD video" is meaningless for PC games. If you're playing a 1080p video, then it will indeed be scaled. But games don't target specific resolutions.. generally. The video is rendered in real time in the output resolution.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you aren't the original propagator of this FUD, but...

"1. The unit draws 2X the current of the 360. The means the unit has to dissipate 2X the heat of the 360, so don't tell me Sony isn't going to have overheating issues. And since they (proudly) display that they don't use a brick (ever get the feeling the PS3 is just Sony trying to knock-off the Xbox1?), the heat sources are concentrated inside the unit. It is appropriate that the thing looks like a George Forman Grill."

This FUD just refuses to go away, doesn't it? The actual unit has a power supply rated at 3.2A*120V, so 384W is the absolute upper limit on power consumption. There is usually a safety margin in these things, so the actual average consumption should be significantly less than that. For comparison, I understand the 360 draws 205W from a power supply rated at 600W, so 2x is just plain hyperbole.

"2. The controllers have non-removable rechargable batteries in them. Once they go, the controller has to be thrown away. I guess Sony found a place to dump their exploding lithium ion batteries..."

Again, this was a misunderstanding by a game journalist in Japan that has been corrected (sorry, Japanese link)--the battery is in fact removable, but will not be sold publicly for now. Which brings us to the next point....

"3. Because of the non-removable batteries, you don't have the convenience of swapping batteries mid-game and continuing to play wireless. This is one of those features that isn't flashy, but once you've used it, you can't live without it. On the 360, if your batteries die mid-game you can quickly swap in another battery pack. Microsoft also gave you the option of using standard batteries or rechargable packs."

...which is the same as how Nintendo DS's battery works, and I've never heard anyone complaining about that. (And if you own one, you know its battery lasts long enough that it really is not a problem in real life.) If non-removable batteries for a handheld is a non-issue, how bad can it be for a living game controller? It is an issue for the 360 only because the controller battery is rated to last a measly 7 hours. Meanwhile, the battery in the PS3 controller is rated to last 30 hours per charge, and if your gaming session lasts longer than that you really need to go get some sleep instead.

By the way, you don't have to throw away the controller if the battery dies; you can have the battery replaced by a technician, just like with compact MP3 players. I don't know how much that will cost, but hopefully it will be significantly less than ~$45, which is the cost of a new controller.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Osty]

And for everyone who feels the same way as you, there's enough people who feel the opposite for the launch units to sell out.

You say that like it means something.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

You have got to be kidding me. I've seen the PS3 in action, and yes the graphics are a LITTLE BIT better than what we have right now. I'm a huge graphics snob, so of course I notice how good the graphics are, but if you put it side-by-side with some of the PS2's better graphically-souped up games MOST PEOPLE wont notice. There's nothing mind-blowingly amazing about it except that it's a cheap bluray player. Graphics have peaked, plain and simple. What people are looking for now are new types of games and new ways to play them. PS3 is bass-ackwards in this department and is going to pay the price for it's lack of innovation.

MOST PEOPLE are not going to notice the difference in graphics between the three systems connected to top-of-the-line TV's. Graphics arent going to sell jack this generation.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Osty]

Yes, a common argument. I dunno, I bought a TV in 2001 that does 1080p for $2k. It's lasted me for 5 years, it's not the best. However, even Oblivion looks good at 1024x768. It's sometimes not the quantity of pixels that matters but the quality that matters. My same TV plays the PS2 and Gamecube at 1080p but the 360 looks better. Same TV.

What TV is this that was doing 1080p years before the first 1080p sets hit the market (2003) that actually accepts a 1080p signal, and has HDMI+HDCP connections years before HDMI 1.1 was even released (2004)? Perhaps you meant 1080i?

Also, PS2 and Gamecube don't do 1080p, so your TV is either switching to a 480p mode (for a CRT) or scaling them to the native resolution (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Plasma) at the risk of introducing lag.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

Posts like this make me wish there were more categories of friends/foes. I keep people on my foes list and give them +1 to see what they have to say, because I know we have opposing viewpoints.

Posts (and threads) like this makes me wish there was an 'ignore' list.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Reapman]

"Uh, that was really stupid. Cables only die when you abuse them; cutting them, rolling over them with your chair too many times, setting them on fire, etc. Batteries die when they have been charged and discharged enough times, when you use them as they are meant to be used. " My point is... how long do you think the batteries are going to last? 2 years? 3? 5? I've seen controllers without batteries die in a year or less, so I don't think a let's say 3 year controller having the battery fail is going to make me cry. Not only that, but someone below pointed out the battery IS REPLACABLE. "the future existence of third party wireless controllers does not invalidate his point in any way because third party controllers universally suck ass. even the one from logitech sucks, but only because they totally blew the feel of the controller and games designed to be played with one controller usually don't play well on another. " I actually conceded this point, but also pointed out that if this is an omg show stopper, 3rd parties will exist to fill the hole. Personally I love my Logitech XBox wireless controller. "For your Xbox, or Xbox 360? I got a universal cable that does s-video, composite, and dual rca audio that works on Second-Gen SNES up through Gamecube, and works on Xbox, PS1, and PS2 for $10. I'll assume you mean Xbox 360. This is $30 US on Amazon, but Lik-Sang has one with optical audio output for US$6.95. Obviously, you aren't looking very hard. " Show me a $10 component video, the top end of what the PS2 and XBox are capable of as far as i know. And by the way, assuming I'm totally wrong, you just invalidated YOUR OWN POINT WHEN YOU SAID "I got a universal cable that..." let me guess, this universal cable isn't sold by Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony is it??? Everyone knows first party cables are a premium, and it's not a new PS3 thing. Yesh.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[HappySqurriel]

I don't think the intention of the previous post was that you could produce a PC that outperforms the PS3 for the same cost as the PS3, but more that there is an annoying habit of fanboys who think that the PS3 is magic and can outperform anything. Now, being that the PS3 doesn't come with an HDTV, and CRT monitors that support 1920x1280 are readily availabe and inexpensive I don't see your point of including a high end, large LCD monitor in the PC price; $250 could easily buy a 17 inch monitor that supports these resolutions.

Please source this. I say that the PS3's architecture is completely different from a PC in no comparable format except real-world tests that aren't even available yet. At the very minimum, people who have seen the PS3 in person running at 1080p have said it's "amazing and fluid". I haven't seen it yet.

IIRC the PS3's GPU has a similar architecture to most readily available graphics cards produced by Nvidia; as a guess, I would say that it was probably a PC GPU that was under development 18-24 months ago that had most of the Legacy support removed from it to keep development costs down. The fact is that the PS3's GPU at best would be similar to the best single GPU graphics card that Nvidia offers, because if Nvidia could produce a better GPU today they would put it on a circuit board and sell it for $500 and advertize how much better their card was then what ATI was producing; if they could produce a sigle GPU which outperformed their SLi setup they would put it on a card and sell it for $700 and advertize that a single card outperformed ATI's crossfire solutions.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you think you'll recieve dramatically better performance from the PS3 than you would from a PC with a decent CPU and good Graphics card I would expect to be disapointed. Consoles (typically) produce great performance for the price, but they're still bound to the same laws of physics that a PC is (and usually consoles have very strict cost/heat/space requirements that a PC doesn't have).

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

And I hate it when I don't preview my messages before hand... here's a slightly more legible version, my bad:

"Uh, that was really stupid. Cables only die when you abuse them; cutting them, rolling over them with your chair too many times, setting them on fire, etc. Batteries die when they have been charged and discharged enough times, when you use them as they are meant to be used. "

My point is... how long do you think the batteries are going to last? 2 years? 3? 5? I've seen controllers without batteries die in a year or less, so I don't think a let's say 3 year controller having the battery fail is going to make me cry. Not only that, but someone below pointed out the battery IS REPLACABLE.

"the future existence of third party wireless controllers does not invalidate his point in any way because third party controllers universally suck ass. even the one from logitech sucks, but only because they totally blew the feel of the controller and games designed to be played with one controller usually don't play well on another. "

I actually conceded this point, but also pointed out that if this is an omg show stopper, 3rd parties will exist to fill the hole. Personally I love my Logitech XBox wireless controller.

"For your Xbox, or Xbox 360? I got a universal cable that does s-video, composite, and dual rca audio that works on Second-Gen SNES up through Gamecube, and works on Xbox, PS1, and PS2 for $10. I'll assume you mean Xbox 360. This is $30 US on Amazon, but Lik-Sang has one with optical audio output for US$6.95. Obviously, you aren't looking very hard. "

Show me a $10 component video, the top end of what the PS2 and XBox are capable of as far as i know. And by the way, assuming I'm totally wrong, you just invalidated YOUR OWN POINT WHEN YOU SAID "I got a universal cable that..." let me guess, this universal cable isn't sold by Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony is it??? Everyone knows first party cables are a premium, and it's not a new PS3 thing. Yesh.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[drinkypoo]

My point is... how long do you think the batteries are going to last? 2 years? 3? 5? I've seen controllers without batteries die in a year or less, so I don't think a let's say 3 year controller having the battery fail is going to make me cry.

It will depend largely on how good people are about plugging them in for charging, and what kind of batteries they use. If they used NiCd (for some bizarre reason) you'd want to discharge them fully every time, and then recharge, unless they used a single cell. If they use LiIon, you want to use them as little as possible before plugging them back in because LiIon batteries prefer to be minimally discharged, and they prefer to be charged early and often. I will remind you that lots of people are having the battery in their iPod die in the first year, because of their charging habits.

Not only that, but someone below pointed out the battery IS REPLACABLE.

If it's replacable without a screwdriver, then that's great. If not, well, it's lame. I haven't seen the thing yet so I can't say either way of course. But I was working on the assumption that it is not replacable.

Show me a $10 component video, the top end of what the PS2 and XBox are capable of as far as i know.

PS-2 Component Cable from Lik-Sang, $6.99
Xbox cable for $11.95 from "RichsPSXParts"

Is $11.95 close enough? I managed to beat your price on the PS2 cable., does that make up for it?

And by the way, assuming I'm totally wrong, you just invalidated YOUR OWN POINT WHEN YOU SAID "I got a universal cable that..." let me guess, this universal cable isn't sold by Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony is it??? Everyone knows first party cables are a premium, and it's not a new PS3 thing. Yesh.

Early adopters get bit on the ass, but they know that, so they deserve it. Meanwhile, it was simply not true that you had to spend all that money to get a working cable. None of the factory-made cables I've ever bought have ever been any better than the knockoffs. Many of them have actually been worse, like the cables that come with the Xbox Advanced AV Pack (the S-Video one, not the component one.)

I did buy an Xbox component AV pack, not that I have any component devices, but I bought it for $10 used so I had to have it. I keep hoping I'll save enough pennies to buy a shiny new TV.

Also, HDMI cables ought to be cheap as hell, because you don't need a good cable. They're digital.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Echnin]

Oh, I agree on the concept of consoles being superior to PCs when it comes to games; I sold off my gaming desktop and now only own a MacBook. Going to buy a console in the near future and connect it to my computer display. :)

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[oc255]

Please keep calling me a fanboy.
Please exaggerate me saying the PS3 is magic.

I'm speculating, you're speculating. We both are at fault of sorts. My only point is, as I have said, we've seen this before. The Emotion Engine wasn't completely up to the hype but it beat the PC for a while. Was it original design? Yes. Is the PS3 like a PC? No. The GPU may be related but it's also a function of the cell SPE's vs the "let's just do stuff" nature of the PC CPU.

Ars covered this before. It might sound ridiculous now, but the PS2 fight was this same deal. I guess I'll just wait for all the blog posts "omg the ps3 is sick". But that's where my fanboyism comes in I guess, regardless if all the hardware is there and everyone on the planet knows that the 360 beats most PCs and the PS3 is poised to be better than the 360. 7 cores, even if the cores aren't that fast. We'll just have to wait for real-world tests I guess.

This fight has been done. PCs are designed for general purpose, consoles are designed for massive parallel operation which is what entertainment loves. Saying "I think Sony put in a Nvidia GPU in the PS3, they are the same" is just lazy analysis. But I suppose I'm speculating. At least skim the PS2 vs PC article I linked from 2000. It's been different for a while.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[Anonymous Coward]

The foe list is the ignore list, if you want to read someone's posts tag them as a friend. These words aren't to be understood in the social sense, they are just there to allow hiding posts you know won't be worth reading.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[KDR_11k]

We're talking about games, if you want 1080p HD videos you'll obviously buy a HD player and the vast majority will wait with that until those players can be had for less than 100$ and the movie selection is as big as it is for DVDs. For games there's little difference between 1600x1200 and 1080p and there is no scaling because the game is rendered at the desired resolution in first place (note that this does not necessarily apply to console games, I've heard that Resistance, the big PS3 launch title, will render in 720p at max and upscale to save video memory and deliver more textures instead).

And AFAIK native 1080p sets are a bit hard to find, I've seen 1080 compatible ones but most ran at resolutions like 1024x768 so few people are going to see 1080p wirhout scaling. 720p is more likely and any decently sized PC monitor can display that without complaining (and I can play even modern games at that resolution with my slightly outdated PC).

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[KDR_11k]

I've got a PC version of Bomberman that allows up to ten players, does that count?

And I think you should tell your theories about what console games can do to the people who made Prey for the XBox 360.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[KDR_11k]

I think we should wait until it's released before we say the PS3 can run Oblivion at full detail and 1920x1080p. Resistance: Fall of Man alledgedly renders at 1280x720 and upscales if the user wants a higher resolution to free up texture memory, I wouldn't be surprised if Oblivion had some performance savings implemented to run properly on the PS3.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[KDR_11k]

The difference between a car and a console is that a car does not require large amounts of software to be made specifically for it. If the PS3 fails to sell enough units for whatever reason (and a preorder sellout doesn't mean much since we're talking about 400k units at most, probably less because the preorder numbers were just estimates, not enough by far to host a million seller game) that software won't get made or will be cross platform. The PS3 is going up against competitors for this software and those competitors lack many of the issues that plague the PS3 so even if they are less "future proof" they might have already eliminated the PS3 from the race by the time that matters.

To go back to the car analogy: If you have a company making car radios, those radios must be specific to a car manufacturer and you can only sell them for a certain price because they won't sell otherwise (and that price is very similar for all makers)*, would you make radios for Ferrari or for GM?

*= In real life a Ferrari owner would be more willing to buy a radio at a higher price but a PS3 owner sure as hell isn't going to accept much higher game prices.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[HappySqurriel]

I wan't calling you a fanboy, but I was saying that fanboys tend to be irrational and have little understanding of what they're talking about ...

I don't deny that my analysis of the PS3 was pretty simplistic, but I don't have enough experience with it to say too much about its specific performance. The intention of my argument was that the combination of space/heat limitations and limitations in the manufacturing process of processors really bounds how powerful the PS3 can be; these bounds are similar to what is available for a standard PC. When I said the GPU would be similar to a PC GPU, my point was that it makes more sense for Sony and Nvidia to capatalize on an existing design (and modify it as needed) then to attempt to start from scratch considering the basic requirements are similar.

The place where Consoles really get a bonus is they can focus on improving perfomance on specific areas that are important to game performance at the expense of general performance; for example Matrix Multiplication, which is heavily used in scene graph management, collision detection, physics and so on. It takes 64 Floating point multiplications and 48 floating point aditions to perform one Matrix multiplication on most processors, if you produce a specific instruction to handle this you can reduce it down to take the time of 4 floating point multiplications and 3 floating point additions; the trade off comes in that you have 16 seperate instruction paths being executed at the same time which greatly increases the ammount of energy your processor is using and you thus must reduce your clockspeed (thereby reducing performance that is not related to Matrix Multiplication). The fact is that Sony didn't choose this route, they split the cell into 7 general purpose pipelines which greatly improves "general performance" but (I suspect) that this was at the expense of greater game performance.

Now, I don't really think how powerful the cell is, is all that important because games today are far more bound to GPU performance than they're to CPU performance and if games continue to support 1080p throughout the lifespan of the PS3 I expect this will always be the case.

Re:What "launch window titles" really means

[ivan256]

The problem with the analogy is not anything you have said, but that you took it a step too far.

Think about the supply and demand side of the argument, which is still perfectly valid, and don't lose the point by going off on a mental tangent. Analogies don't kill analogies. Pedantry kills analogies.

Damn it.

[mcai8rw2]

Ah lucky europe. Why bother tempting yourself with these bits of info...you know we;re not getting ours till March damn sony.

Re:Damn it.

[Clever7Devil]

I thought you guys didn't mind...

Maybe...

[Bananatree3]

Maybe in a while when the price goes down from 500+ will I take a look at it.

Re:Maybe...

[Programmer_In_Traini]

hum.

if you're will to buy at $499 and wait, why not shell out the extra $100 and have it now ?

100$ extended over a few months isn't a big deal.

Re:How is it possible?

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

THE END IS NIGH!!

Re:How is it possible?

[MeanderingMind]

Because contrary to popular belief, Zonk isn't biased against the PS3?

This isn't the first and it won't be the last time Zonk posts news about the PS3 without bashing it. It's been stated before and I'll stated again that Zonk can only post what news on the PS3 there is, not what news there isn't. If 90% of that news is bad, which it was for a very long time, he's just the messenger. Shooting him doesn't change what other people report.

Attacking Zonk is as popular around here as predicting the "inevitable" death of Sony. Both are silly pursuits.

Re:How is it possible?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did he have to?

Look at the games that were listed "FEAR, Call of Duty 3, Full Auto 2, Genji: Days of the Blade, NBA Live 07, NBA 2K7, NHL 2K7, Rainbow Six Vegas, Tony Hawk's Project 8, Untold Legends, and Riiidge Racer 7" Which game there is exclusive and of high enough quality to encourage you to buy a $500/$600 PS3?

No Imports Allowed

[poormanjoe]

They will disturbe our entire ecosystem, or realase to much CO2.
 
  God Bless America, and free trade that we are allowed.

Re:No Imports Allowed

[ClamIAm]

free trade

The best part is that PS3 games are region-free...

Title

[Fozzyuw]

Is it just me, the fact that I'm not much of a Sony fan (I only bought a used PS2 a month ago, but I do enjoy the games I'm playing), but I'm not exactly interested in the titles they're offering up? Untold Legends? I had the first one on the PSP and it was traded in

Of course, I've been pretty negative about the PS3 with it's high price and undesired hardware (HD output and blue-ray, though I like the Blue-Ray more than HD-DVD), but being a person who dislikes sports titles on video games (Techmo SuperBowl is the only game I ever truely enjoyed), I AM actually intersted in the Wii sports package... which, by the way, comes with the system. I dunno, maybe I'm not into the NCAA, FIFA, NFL, NHL titles. The sports games I enjoyed (with the exception above) where always 'generic' leages, like "Basebase All-Stars" for the NES or that old NES hocky game, "Blades of Steel" I think it was called? Oh, "Double Dribble" was fun, but I don't recall if it used real 'teams' or not.

Anyway, I'm not impressed with this line-up so far.

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:Title

[BrodyVess]

Great- Now I'm going to have the theme song for blades of steel stuck in my head all day long. Along with anyone who ever played it.

Re:Title

[grammar fascist]

Great- Now I'm going to have the theme song for blades of steel stuck in my head all day long. Along with anyone who ever played it.

You, sir, have an amazing head.

Re:How is it possible?

[Duds]

Actually he DID slip in the importing dig, which is completely irrelevent and just there to sonybash.

Importing is illegal?

[Maul]

So let me get this straight.

1. Go to Japan.
2. Buy a bunch of PS3s legally.
3. Offer to sell these PS3s I purchased legally on my web page to international customers.
4. Resell the PS3s to people outside of Japan.

I fail to see how this is illegal, per say. I'm a bit confused.

Re:Importing is illegal?

[Thansal]

You and me both.

Aparently they won a suit against Lik-Sang, however mabey there is something going on there, like any one that orders from Sony wholesale signs an agreement to not sell out of their region.....

Either way, it is crazy.

Re:Importing is illegal?

[ravenshrike]

Lik-Sang is an actual company. The court's decision had nothing to do with a single person reselling something in another country that he bought at full price in Japan.

Re:Importing is illegal?

[interiot]

Parallel importation... consumers love it, manufacturers hate it and try to get laws passed to prohibit it. Every once in a while, governments fall for their whining about economic losses, and pass those laws.

Re:Importing is illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's Lik Sang's version of the story.

Re:Importing is illegal?

[Detritus]

They may be using trademark law. Customs can seize goods that make unauthorized use of a trademark, such as some grey-market goods.

Re:Importing is illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see how this is illegal, per say. I'm a bit confused.

You're confused because the phrase is per se , not "per say".

Re:Importing is illegal?

[KDR_11k]

Of course that still doesn't make sense considering it was Sony that printed that trademark on there in first place.

Re:Importing is illegal?

[Detritus]

It can be considered an unauthorized use of the trademark by the importer, even if it was originally manufactured by Sony.

Forget the Games.. It runs Linux!!!

[Zarniwoop_Editor]

Forget what games it comes with.
With it running linux I think it may be a nifty way to get a cheap cell platform to play with.
The price may be a bit high for a game console but it's a dirt cheap, screaming fast Cell based platform to have some fun with.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/ yellow-dog-linux-designed-for-playstation-3-208902 .php

Re:Forget the Games.. It runs Linux!!!

[drinkypoo]

Just keep in mind that it only has 256MB RAM. It'll be a fun Cell platform but don't expect to treat it like a Cell workstation which is what everyone has been asking for since Cell specs were announced. Great for clusters, though... if they have gigE, which I doubt but is not impossible.

Re:Forget the Games.. It runs Linux!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just like Linux on the PS2 was such a good way to get to use the emotion engine and all of the PS2's phat hardware.

Christ, people. When will you learn?

Not only that, but what exactly do you want to use Cell for? In all of these "boy, I sure do want to play with the Cell, by golly!" posts, I never hear an actual reason. Do you have a pet project that needs a bunch of parallel DSPs? Are you actually an interested programmer, an astroturfer, or just a moron?

Re:Forget the Games.. It runs Linux!!!

[hunterkll]

Here's how it usually works... you give me something that has no apparent use, and eventually i'll find a use for it. Give me a cell chip, i'll adapt new coding practices that make ordinary things fly, or that make flying things teleport! :D

PS3 - An opportunity for Sony OS???

[aJester]

I just had this thought... more along the lines of random musings.
I apologize if someone had already discussed this :)

PS-3 would actually be a good vehicle for Sony to introduce its own OS .. a la-Apple. coz they will rightaway have a HUGE marketshare.
And they can sell higher priced hardware (Vaios etc) using the same OS, which means that games written for PS3 that does NOT use PS3 specific hardware feature would work on the Sony PCs.

If Sony had bought, BeOS, which I hear has low latency and was made from the ground up for Multi-media, they may have had an OS which is mostly done. They just need to tune it for their PS3.

Disclaimer: I do not know too much about BeOS. So you can replace that with your fav OS, like Amiga, Plan9 or whatever. I mentioned BeOS coz I seem to remember reading that it was called a Media OS.

Any thoughts......

Jester

Re:PS3 - An opportunity for Sony OS???

[Cheapy]

SonyOS: Crackers won't trojan you, we already have.

Re:PS3 - An opportunity for Sony OS???

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony has their own OS -- Aperios -- for controlling embedded devices. I've worked with it; it's a piece of crap. I can't imagine how terrible they'd be at implementing a desktop OS.

Re:PS3 - An opportunity for Sony OS???

[aJester]

The point ... is that we need more diverse eco-system when it comes to Operating Systems.

But it is impossible for a normal company to come and launch a new OS.
Sony happens to be in the unique position where they can have instant marketshare coz of the millions of PS3 they will have. So they can initially launch it as the PS-3 OS. Once developers have become comfortable writing games on it, they can introduce it on their desktop version at some point in future. The point is, there is potential there, if Sony wants to break free from Microsoft.

Now that Microsoft is attacking Sony, that time may NOT be too far away. So Sony either may want to try to license Mac OS X, but apple seems to be becoming a competitor.

Since Microsoft is "migrating" to Vista, this is the perfect opportunity to attack the Windows monopoly.
Mac OS X is the ONLY alternative on desktops currently.
Linux is there on servers.
But a few more diverse OS would be nice and this is the Perfect time.

peace!
jester

Re:PS3 - An opportunity for Sony OS???

[DrXym]

The PS3 can run Linux so it already has its own OS. It's not clear if Yellow Dog Linux 5.0 is the official Linux for the PS3, but it's still a pretty awesome to see it at all. The FAQ even says you can download it for free (though paying for it gets you updates). Interestingly YDL has a Cell SDK and cluster management software. So you really could build a Beowulf cluster of these.

Details are pretty light so far. I'd like to know if YDL runs alongside the PS3 cross bar media interface, resides in it, or what.

Re:PS3 - An opportunity for Sony OS???

[blighter]

Not to rain on your parade, but it's just as impossible for Sony to launch it's own OS as it would be for a "normal" company.

If the PS3 sells twice as well as the PS2 (which is very unlikely) and does so instantly (which is impossible) that would leave Sony with a small fraction of the total install base of Microsoft. And it would be completely left out of the most important markets, which is the business market.

Re:How is it possible?

[Manmademan]

Resistance: Fall of Man is absent from your list but is widely considered to be the system seller at launch.

Online + Talladega Nights

[thatguywhoiam]

The most surprising details to me were how finished the much-questioned Playstation Store and online service are. I was fully expecting this to be the flimsiest part of the PS3 offering but it actually seems quite solid. (And I love, love love that Cross Media Bar interface. The X360 dashboard is nice until you have a zillion items that you must grab out of a pull-down menu; then its pure hell.)

Also I think throwing a bluray copy of Talladega Nights into the box - a month ahead of the film's actual release - is quite clever. Let people see what bluray is, if they are lucky enough to have a TV that can play HD. This was a popular promo for the PSP.

Anyone have more details of PSP-to-PS3 functionality? I've read numerous 'possibilities', the remote feature, and the stuff about downloading PS1 games to PSP via PS3, but what about streaming movies etc?

Re:Online + Talladega Nights

[DarkJC]

Anyone have more details of PSP-to-PS3 functionality?

That's all been revealed on Game Day. I personally read the info on this stuff over at IGN, but I'm assuming you can get the coverage from anywhere. Basically, there will be a PSP "Remote Play" feature that will turn the PS3 into a slave device operated by the PSP. All video, music, photos, etc stored on your PS3 will be viewable from your PSP. Also, there was a demo that allowed a 1080p Blu-ray movie being played back on the PS3 to immediately switch to a PSP playback mode, and continue playback from the same spot on your PSP.

All media stored on your PSP can also be accessed and played back via PS3, so the combined functionality of these two devices is actually quite cool. The only thing you can't do that I'm aware of is play a PS3 game on the PSP via the Remote Play feature, although with various games supporting the PSP in special ways (hopefully more than just a rear-view mirror) this may be feasible. All in all, I'm quite surprised with the integration they've provided between PS3 and PSP.

Re:Online + Talladega Nights

[thatguywhoiam]

Thank you very much for the PSP info. The streaming movies thing is incredibly cool. (That takes a LOT of horsepower, if its doing realtime compression + streaming to H.264 and serving it over WiFi.)

Re:Online + Talladega Nights

[flewp]

Though I don't own, or plan to buy a PSP, hopefully the PSP-PS3 integration with games isn't done as afterthoughts, or too much emphasis put on it so as to adversely(sp) affect other parts of the game. Things like a rear-view mirror, while it may sound like a good idea, seems kind of pointless to me. I'd rather have the rear view mirror on the screen, in front of me, at the top - Where you would expect a rear-view mirror to normally be in your field of view when driving. Unless you have some kind of special mount for the PSP, where the hell else are you going to put it? On the couch, next to you? On the coffee table? It just seems like one of those ideas that sounds cool until you actually think about it's usefullness.

Slightly OT: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3?

[thatguywhoiam]

I submitted this, but Zonk didn't post it. I would think it would be a big deal; perhaps I'm missing some detail.

He's the Ars Technica article: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3 Announced

If we get YDL for PS3, does this not mean we can write homebrew software for it? It just seems to change the equation a bit. A $600 game console is expensive, but a $600 multicore Linux PC that can do HD, Bluray and a bunch of other interesting tricks is a lot more interesting...

Re:Slightly OT: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3?

[VanillaBabies]

Thats because it was posted on Monday Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 for PS3 Announced

On a side note, OMG Zonk didn't post a dupe.

Re:Slightly OT: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3?

[gstoddart]

I submitted this, but Zonk didn't post it. I would think it would be a big deal; perhaps I'm missing some detail.

He's the Ars Technica article: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3 Announced

Don't know when you posted it to Zonk, but this was posted on Monday.

For once, maybe the editors prevented a duplicate.

Cheers

Re:Slightly OT: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3?

[Anonymous Coward]

One word: MAME

I know you can do those things on a computer, a dreamcast, some chipped consoles, and your solar-powered calculator already...but dude, MAME! Chalk it up as an added feature -- performing a hadouken with the sixasses controller.

Re:Slightly OT: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3?

[CronoCloud]

I checked the applications section of the TerraSoft website and they have VICE (Commodore emulation and Bochs in there already.

Re:Slightly OT: Yellow Dog Linux for PS3?

[CronoCloud]

That's what I've been saying for months when people said $600 for a console was too much, It's not an ordinary console:

PS3/PS2/PS1 games
Video on disk and transferred to it's storage
Photos
Music
Web Browsiner (without Linux)
and Linux. with the usual Firefox, Thunderbird OO.o combo and GCC.

It's a steal.

Re:How is it possible?

[Anonymous Coward]

It could very well be the system seller, but My list was directly in the article summary where Resistance: Fall of Man wasn't listed. My point wasn't to bash the PS3, but I do want you to consider that the PS3 has to prove why someone should spend the extra $100/$200 on it when most of the games are available on the XBox 360 already. Not to karma whore, but consider the Wii's launch for a moment ... The big games that seem interesting and high quality are Zelda, Raman, Red Steel, Trauma Center, Monkey Ball and Excite Truck (with Madden Wii being different enough to possibly consider it a different game than regular Madden); every last one of those games is exclusive for at least a reasonably long time.

noticed increase in game version number ?

[Superken7]

Not to be too offtopic, but i noticed the 'funny' fact that nearly all of the game titles
look like this: "GAMEXYZ 8".

Call of Duty 3, Full Auto 2, NBA Live 07, NBA 2K7, NHL 2K7, Rainbow Six Vegas, Tony Hawk's Project 8, Ridge Racer 7 ... that gives me the feeling that they are just re-releasing the same games with minor changes but better graphics.
Tony 8? Ridge Racer 7? how many of them will there be ?

*sigh*

Re:noticed increase in game version number ?

[oc255]

Final Fantasy 11->12 vs Windows 98->XP? Some brands "reboot". One might be good, one might be the same old crap with a new name. Judge book + cover? I think it's the smallest aspect of a game. But at the same time, Final Fantasy MCMLXXXIV would be pretty absurd (if not Orwellian ;P).

Bias against PS3 is just commonsense

[Anonymous Coward]

How could anyone remotely sensible not be biased against a console that costs a fortune because it comes with a Blueray drive for which currently there is next to zero media content available? (And there won't be either, for at least a year.)

OK, I grant you that we have to exclude the very rich, who have no need to think about cost-effectiveness of a purchase before they wave their unlimited credit card at it or send their chauffeur over to pick one up.

But the very rich aside, being biased against the PS3 is completely natural and sensible. Another way of putting it is that, unless you have a ton of money, you must be a complete moron if you are not biased against it.

And that's especially true given that Xbox 360 is here and is vastly cheaper, and that the Wii at 1/3rd of the price offers much more playability with its new controller than the PS3's poorer controller ever will.

If you're not biased against the PS3, then you've got a serious inability to make rational value judgements.

Re:Bias against PS3 is just commonsense

[mgabrys_sf]

Theeeeeeen why are you trolling ps3 stories? Wouldn't you be happy chatting it up with your fellow Wii people on those stories?

Oh yes that "rational value judgement" thing.

Um hmm. Those Slashdotters are a mature non-fanboy bunch.

Oh - wait.

Re:Bias against PS3 is just commonsense

[flewp]

Well, there may be very little to no content now, but those of us who actually do have common sense realise that there will be content available. Those with common sense may also realise that given the price of blu-ray stand alone players, the PS3 with it's ability to play games may not be that bad of a deal. I fail to see your arguement about excluding the *very* rich. You don't even have to be rich to be able to afford a PS3. A PS3 and a game to get started is around one paycheck for someone who makes ~50,000-60,000 USD a year. Last time I checked, that doesn't exactly put you into the "very rich" segment of the population.

In other words, those of us who actually do possess common sense are actually more open minded instead of being close minded as well as narrow minded like yourself.

Re:How is it possible?

[IpalindromeI]

How is it a dig? Sony did sue Lik-Sang over importing, even though it was perfectly legal.

How is it irrelevant? This article concerns the PS3 launch, which will be happening a few months later in Europe than elsewhere, and people might have been considering importing it. Now they might not be able to because of Sony's actions. Seems relevant to those who might've wanted to import, no?

PSP and PS3 -- one eensy little detail

[Purity Of Essence]

PSP and PS3 integration is only possible with the WiFi version of the PS3. You are looking at an extra purchase if you buy the low-end version of the PS3. Dumb.

Re:PSP and PS3 -- one eensy little detail

[Manmademan]

The low end version of the Ps3 is upgradable to Wifi via USB. It's not crippled by any means.

Re:PSP and PS3 -- one eensy little detail

[Purity Of Essence]

Sure, it can be done, but if they are going to charge so much for a console, the inclusion of relatively inexpensive WiFi seems like a no brainer. But then again, the whole notion of two versions of the same console is mind-boggling to me. The whole point of a stand-alone console should be the uniformity of the platform. "Upgradable" consoles just make everything more expensive for the consumer and more difficult for the developer.

Still no mention of the cost of online play?

[Purity Of Essence]

Yeah, they say "FREE" browsing and "FREE" downloadable demos, but am I the only one didn't see anything about the cost of online play against other players? How much is Sony's version of X-Box Live?

Re:Still no mention of the cost of online play?

[Anonymous Coward]

Multiplayer is 100% free, and it's been announced countless times officially. Check the references and citations at the bottom of the PS3 Wikipedia article for links. Or you could have used Google, you lazy ass.

Re:Still no mention of the cost of online play?

[Purity Of Essence]

Sorry, but you're the AC-posting ass. There is nothing in the Wikipedia article that says multiplayer is 100% free. It says it is up to the game maker to charge or not charge, similar to the Wii. That said, the cited article is five months old, makes no reference to the actual cost of multiplayer play, and otherwise contains numerous errors about the specifics of the PS3. What I find odd, and what I posted about, and what you didn't attempt to answer, is that Sony seems to have made no mention of it during the show yesterday which was supposed to reveal everything about the online functionality of the PS3.

Too bad they left the controller alone...

[Vr6dub]

Personally one of the major shortcomings with the PS3 is the fact that they've used the same controller (the layout at least) on their last three systems. It's nice they've added "triggers" but from what I've read they are awkward to use. The motion sensing seems like an afterthought to me. I used to love Sony's controller but as games started adopting the analog sticks the flaw in the Sony design began to show itself. Their placement makes it difficult to accurately and quickly transistion from left to right. You have to "extend" your thumb to make this motion (very important in driving games especially). With the 360 controller and the old S model, the left to right action is better aligned with your thumbs range of mobility. Rather than "extending" your thumb you simply move it left and right. I noticed this when I made the switch from Gran Turismo 4 to PGR. I loathed the analog on GT4 because I couldn't input fast enough. When I picked up the XBOX it just worked.

Sony's controllers now feel very awkward when placed in my hands almost to the point of making me now invest in a PS3. No one uses the D-pad anymore, save for some fighting games, as their primary. Move the analog to a more natural position.

Funny, I had a buddy mention this exact thing the other day when I tried a racing game on my computer with the 360 controller. He mentioned he could never use the analogs with GT4 but never fully understood why.

Bottom line...it seem's rather lazy and short-sighted IMO to have been so stagnant with the controller. I know, I've thought about this too much but it just baffles me.

Re:Too bad they left the controller alone...

[flewp]

Though I quickly get used to just about any controller (with the exception of the Xbox's early giant-size controllers) I've actually liked the design of the PS controller. I don't really experience the problems you say you have with driving games, and I played a lot of GT3 and 4.

You do have a point about being stagnant with the controller though. I don't think it necessarily needs a completely radical redesign, but it's barely even been an evolutionary process. Sure, the motion sensing could be cool, but like you said, it seems more of an afterthought, and I'm guessing it won't be heavily utilised by games, and could very well be implemented very poorly in a lot of games.

Enough OTHER players demand real leagues

[tepples]

I dunno, maybe I'm not into the NCAA, FIFA, NFL, NHL titles. The sports games I enjoyed (with the exception above) where always 'generic' leages

Unfortunately, the economies of scale in console licensing make the video game market a representative plutocracy. Tastes have shifted such that most other people who choose to buy team sport games would prefer EA's Madden NFL instead of Midway's Blitz: The League or some other gridiron football game that uses a fictional league. Frankly, as of 2006, it appears that there aren't enough yen, dollars, and euros controlled by people like you to make fictional league sports game development and publishing profitable.

Nominative use: "PSP Compatible"

[tepples]

Customs can seize goods that make unauthorized use of a trademark, such as some grey-market goods.

Then sell your grey-market PSP as an "LCD Game System Compatible with Sony PSP Games". Trademark law in the United States and some other countries does not restrict nominative use of "PSP" in the previous phrase, just as various computer makers in the 1980s advertised that their products were "IBM compatible".

Broadband still costs

[tepples]

Multiplayer is 100% free

Does Sony have a hotspot network like Nintendo does so that people who live close to a McDonald's restaurant can whip out a suitable antenna and play even if they had to downgrade the family PC's Internet access from broadband to dial-up to be able to afford the PSP or PS3?

Re:Broadband still costs

[Anonymous Coward]

Tepples: Shut the fuck up. Your speculative questions are not insightful.

Re:How is it possible?

[brkello]

I used to be with you and think people were too hard on Zonk. I think his reviews are fine and such. But, after reading the comments he makes on PS3 vs other consoles...it is clear he is biased. I don't mind seeing 99 out of 100 negative ps3 articles...it's his petty little comments that get to you after awhile.

bullshit

[Ender Ryan]

So, tell me, why has Zonk failed to post 90% of the positive news about the PS3? Why do I have to go elsewhere to read most of the accounts of people who have actually gotten their hands on a PS3? Why do I have to go elsewhere to read any criticism of the Wii from people who've played them?

This is /. for fuck sakes. How can you say with a straight face that an editor here isn't biassed?

Re:bullshit

[MeanderingMind]

Because 20 different stories saying exactly the same thing (i.e System is sexy and sweet but controller leaves much to be desired) don't warrant individual articles?

The bias comment was more of a failed witty retort than a truth. It is true that no one is unbiased, but it is untrue that Zonk's bias is the cause of all of the negative PS3 articles we see here.

You don't have to go elsewhere, given that it was not too long ago we got news that halogen lights, direct sunlight, and a number of other mundane things can interfere with the Wii's sensor bar. We've seen reviews here from both people who thought the Wii was retarded to people who thought it would cure cancer.

However, you can't blame Zonk for the largely negative comments slashdotters make whenever Sony does something remotely bad, and the defenses and general "It'll be okay"s you see when there's a bump in the road for Nintendo. You can blame ignorance, market perceptions, bad PR or any number of things but not Zonk.

There's also always the possibility that 90% of everyone who tries a Wii doesn't find obvious fault with the system, and that 90% of people who try the SIXAXIS do.

I'm making a lot of assumptions in my comments here, but I think my assumptions are fair. It seems a bit conspiracy theory-like to assume that Zonk is out to get Sony. When I go dig around the internet I find the proportion of negative and positive news stories for all the competitors to be in line with what we see here. The comments people make on that news here is a completely different story.

So take my word on it that I'm saying all of this with a straight face. :D

Re:How is it possible?

[MeanderingMind]

Fair point. I conceded that my comment on Zonk's bias was more witty retort than truth, but I don't think Zonk's bias is the cause of all the negative PS3 articles we see here (as some people would claim). He can't MAKE Kotaku, gamasutra, 1up and others write unfavorable articles on the PS3. XD

But yeah, if his comments are biased I could see that getting old fast.

Re:How is it possible?

[Ender Ryan]

In reply to this comment of yours, and your response to mine: Fair enough :D

Bomberman is isolated

[tepples]

I've got a PC version of Bomberman that allows up to ten players, does that count?

Unfortunately, this is an isolated case. How many multiplayer party games for PC were published in the period January 1, 2000, through December 31, 2005, compared to how many such games for consoles were published during the same six years?

Re:Bomberman is isolated

[KDR_11k]

I still don't think expecting one platform to match another's features 100% is a fair comparison, after all there's no 100% match in the other direction, either. If you want single screen MP you get a console, if you want games where you can handle more than one character at one without going turn-based and games that can be modified you pick the PC.

Re:Bomberman is isolated

[tepples]

If you want single screen MP you get a console

What if I want to develop and sell single screen MP games and my company is not yet big enough for any console maker to consider talking to?

Re:Bomberman is isolated

[KDR_11k]

Then you start gaining size by making games you CAN do. You aren't complaining that you lack the capital to make a game rivalling Final Fantasy, do you?

Re:Bomberman is isolated

[tepples]

Then you start gaining size by making games you CAN do.

The complexity of the game itself isn't a problem. Unlike Final Fantasy, something on the scale of Nintendo's WarioWare is cheap to develop. We can make a 100 percent playable PC game that will work on a Windows or Mac computer with a USB hub and four joypads. We can even make it run on the Mac mini, which looks like a Wii but unfortunately costs like a PS3. We just can't port it to Sony's platform, Microsoft's platform, or Nintendo's platform. Should we try to sell it in the saturated PC market and then, if it does sell, release a console port based on the revenue from that? Or what other kind of game would you recommend making as a company's first title?

Re:Bomberman is isolated

[KDR_11k]

If you think there's a market for PC games using four joypads (or at least enough to make a profit), be my guest. The more obvious approach would be to do something proven (i.e. no gross departure from established genres but still good enough to sell and most likely with your own "quirk" to get the sales) first before branching out into unproven markets. Or you just produce a good prototype on the PC and ask the console companies to reconsider, many companies take that approach.