> Maybe someone who actually cares should double check them?
Are you implying that authors who take the time to write and publish man pages don't care if others find them useful? How would an author know if their work is unclear to others if they don't receive feedback?
> I don't see newspaper editors complaining about how readers don't constantly document their mistakes.
Newspapers usually publish corrections and letters to the editor. Where do you suppose they come from? Typically, newspaper editors have a paid position and want to keep it. So constantly pointing out their own mistakes is not in their self-interest.
OTOH, most people who write Linux man pages are volunteers using their own resources. They could always use some extra help. Just think of bug reports as letters to the editor...
What would you call Windows 3.1, 95, NT 4.0, 2000, ME, and XP then? If you've ever had the wrong drivers, you'd agree that this is also a pain.
> if all of geeks who hack it would get rid of their egos and put the best of breed into one utility...
Afterwards, the companies that employ the geeks would sue each other over NDA/DMCA/trade secret violations and copyright/patent infringement. Pray for peace but prepare for incompatibilities.
> crassly informing someone that they should just go and RTFM is a counterproductive shot in the foot.
> If half of the homebrew IT guys around would suggest this book (and a few others) to new linux users, a lot could be done for the OSS movement.
So let me get this straight... Suggesting that someone read a free manual is crass and counterproductive but suggesting that they buy a book with a insulting title isn't.
What about _Introduction to Linux: A Hands on Guide_ by Machtelt Garrels? It doesn't have an insulting title and it's available for free from The Linux Documentation Project in different versions.
Perhaps a Linux newbie could ask for a printed copy and review for Slashdot.
> What man pages aren't is consistently friendly and approachable
As a documentation volunteer, I wonder if timothy (the author of the article) created bug reports for those man pages. I also wonder if he sent re-writes of those man pages after he figured them out. After all, how else will they become "friendly and approachable"?
Re:a few extra notes from someone using OSS
on
Evaluating Open Source
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
> Shop A: Pays $65K for a VB and ASP.NET developer to work on Win 2003 and MSSQL/IIS. >Shop B: Pays $65K for Python developer to work on Debian with PostgreSQL/Apache.
>Who do you think will get the better programmer?
IMHO, it's anyone's guess... You've neglected a multitude of other variables: understanding the business, usability, clear design, ability to get things done, etc.
IMHO, if you can afford both a car and a vacation home then you can afford to pay full price for multiple CDs. What would be fairer would be a "means-tested" law that says that if you can't afford a car and a vacation home then you can burn a few CDs.
> just about no one nowadays ever listens to New Kids on the Block
I'm trying to learn how to play keyboards on my own. Most of the printed music for keyboards is boring stuff like "The Blue Danube Waltz" and "The Moonlight Sonata". (OTOH, beginning guitarists have a great selection of rock music songbooks and tablature sites like OLGA.)
Well, I came across a NKOTB songbook at a thrift store. I got the CDs for the songs for next to nothing at a used CD store. Their songs are simple and memorable, I can practice them for hours. If I get burned out on them, so what?
> Have you ever marked up a book by hand in TEI XML?
I marked up a 1,000+ page book by hand using DocBook/XML.
> I can produce an ASCII book... from the output of DP.
Sorry, what's DP?
> Every book I've tried and eventually quit trying to produce in XML took hours and hours
You're not specific about your problem so I can't point you to any helpful resources. However, a good example of XML being used to create a large book is The FreeBSD Handbook.
> However, it insists on at least a plain vanilla version of a text, as that format has proven to be the most durable and accessible.
Sometimes the illustrations that accompany a text are crucial for its understanding.
How about using the Text Encoding Initiative's TEI XML format instead? Graphics can be included using its figure tag. Combine the TEI XML markup with Dublin Core metadata and people could search PG's library by author, publication date, publisher, etc.
The markup can be stored as ASCII text and edited with a simple text editor. This format can also be rendered to ASCII for legacy purposes...
> You ask for indie artists that aren't signed to a major label. That's all of them. Indie stands for independent, as in independent of the major labels.
Believe it or not, there are indie artists out there that aren't independent. For example, there are labels that were formerly indie that are now funded in whole or part by major labels. Also, some indie artists use major labels for distribution.
Then there are the "astroturf" labels that major labels start that seem to be indie to those not paying attention.
> Many schools do benefit from computers--as long as the computers are in central labs (not in the classroom), and not networked. [Emphasis mine.]
Not networked? This would mean a student's access to information is limited by their school library (or nearby public library, if they have transportation). In my experience, school libraries don't have a very expansive and/or current selection. I would argue that the Internet is an important supplement to the school library.
> From the article: "Documentation is mostly done by geeks and testers, yet... it's useless... [The task of] documentation must be given to professionals."
One question... Where are all of these paid Open Source documentation jobs?
The road to better Open Source documentation begins with respect for the volunteers. Just replace "documentation" with "software" in the quoted text and see how you like it!
The article made no mention of streaming audio and video. What do they use for Real Audio and Windows Media format files? I hope they didn't leave users in the lurch.
Slashdot Mirror
> Maybe someone who actually cares should double check them?
Are you implying that authors who take the time to write and publish man pages don't care if others find them useful? How would an author know if their work is unclear to others if they don't receive feedback?
> I don't see newspaper editors complaining about how readers don't constantly document their mistakes.
Newspapers usually publish corrections and letters to the editor. Where do you suppose they come from? Typically, newspaper editors have a paid position and want to keep it. So constantly pointing out their own mistakes is not in their self-interest.
OTOH, most people who write Linux man pages are volunteers using their own resources. They could always use some extra help. Just think of bug reports as letters to the editor...
> Fragmentation. That's why UNIX is a pain...
What would you call Windows 3.1, 95, NT 4.0, 2000, ME, and XP then? If you've ever had the wrong drivers, you'd agree that this is also a pain.
> if all of geeks who hack it would get rid of their egos and put the best of breed into one utility...
Afterwards, the companies that employ the geeks would sue each other over NDA/DMCA/trade secret violations and copyright/patent infringement. Pray for peace but prepare for incompatibilities.
> crassly informing someone that they should just go and RTFM is a counterproductive shot in the foot.
> If half of the homebrew IT guys around would suggest this book (and a few others) to new linux users, a lot could be done for the OSS movement.
So let me get this straight... Suggesting that someone read a free manual is crass and counterproductive but suggesting that they buy a book with a insulting title isn't.
What about _Introduction to Linux: A Hands on Guide_ by Machtelt Garrels? It doesn't have an insulting title and it's available for free from The Linux Documentation Project in different versions.
Perhaps a Linux newbie could ask for a printed copy and review for Slashdot.
> What man pages aren't is consistently friendly and approachable
As a documentation volunteer, I wonder if timothy (the author of the article) created bug reports for those man pages. I also wonder if he sent re-writes of those man pages after he figured them out. After all, how else will they become "friendly and approachable"?
> Shop A: Pays $65K for a VB and ASP .NET developer to work on Win 2003 and MSSQL/IIS.
>Shop B: Pays $65K for Python developer to work on Debian with PostgreSQL/Apache.
>Who do you think will get the better programmer?
IMHO, it's anyone's guess... You've neglected a multitude of other variables: understanding the business, usability, clear design, ability to get things done, etc.
> enough for a car, a vacation home...
IMHO, if you can afford both a car and a vacation home then you can afford to pay full price for multiple CDs. What would be fairer would be a "means-tested" law that says that if you can't afford a car and a vacation home then you can burn a few CDs.
> just about no one nowadays ever listens to New Kids on the Block
I'm trying to learn how to play keyboards on my own. Most of the printed music for keyboards is boring stuff like "The Blue Danube Waltz" and "The Moonlight Sonata". (OTOH, beginning guitarists have a great selection of rock music songbooks and tablature sites like OLGA.)
Well, I came across a NKOTB songbook at a thrift store. I got the CDs for the songs for next to nothing at a used CD store. Their songs are simple and memorable, I can practice them for hours. If I get burned out on them, so what?
I find it highly ironic that PBS, which is related to NPR by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, is presenting a documentary about how music is dying. The article mentions radio consolidation and they're part of the problem. NPR lobbied against low-power FM stations. Just something to remember when they start the next pledge drive...
> XML, AFAIK, was never intended to be human-writable.
According to its specification, some of its design goals were to be "human-legible and reasonably clear" and "easy to create".
> Have you ever marked up a book by hand in TEI XML?
I marked up a 1,000+ page book by hand using DocBook/XML.
> I can produce an ASCII book... from the output of DP.
Sorry, what's DP?
> Every book I've tried and eventually quit trying to produce in XML took hours and hours
You're not specific about your problem so I can't point you to any helpful resources. However, a good example of XML being used to create a large book is The FreeBSD Handbook.
> What I'd really like to see is an OS text-to-voice reader program.
Beg your pardon? There are many, listed here at linux-sound.org. I know the Festival program works...
> However, it insists on at least a plain vanilla version of a text, as that format has proven to be the most durable and accessible.
Sometimes the illustrations that accompany a text are crucial for its understanding.
How about using the Text Encoding Initiative's TEI XML format instead? Graphics can be included using its figure tag. Combine the TEI XML markup with Dublin Core metadata and people could search PG's library by author, publication date, publisher, etc.
The markup can be stored as ASCII text and edited with a simple text editor. This format can also be rendered to ASCII for legacy purposes...
> One thing I've always wanted to do... is to develop a fairly decent homebrew recipe and release it under the GPL.
Like this cola recipe?
How quickly we seem to forget... Last month, Slashdot had a story about another ice-free fridge.
> Nowhere else in the world could they have come up with such a marvelous invention
Yeah, an ice-free fridge... That's never been done before.
> there are plenty of new opportunities for aspiring programmers within the food service sector.
...until those jobs are replaced by automation.
Check out Wired New's coverage of diploma mills:h tml
http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,54596,00.
They note that US colleges should be accredited by either the Department of Education or the Council on Higher Education Accreditation.
Warning, its manual isn't free: http://ardour.org/manual.html
> csound is only free for non-commercial use
No, this was changed recently. It's now LGPL: http://lwn.net/Articles/31840/
Its documentation is also under the GFDL now.
> You ask for indie artists that aren't signed to a major label. That's all of them. Indie stands for independent, as in independent of the major labels.
Believe it or not, there are indie artists out there that aren't independent. For example, there are labels that were formerly indie that are now funded in whole or part by major labels. Also, some indie artists use major labels for distribution.
Then there are the "astroturf" labels that major labels start that seem to be indie to those not paying attention.
> Many schools do benefit from computers--as long as the computers are in central labs (not in the classroom), and not networked. [Emphasis mine.]
Not networked? This would mean a student's access to information is limited by their school library (or nearby public library, if they have transportation). In my experience, school libraries don't have a very expansive and/or current selection. I would argue that the Internet is an important supplement to the school library.
> From the article: "Documentation is mostly done by geeks and testers, yet... it's useless... [The task of] documentation must be given to professionals."
One question... Where are all of these paid Open Source documentation jobs?
The road to better Open Source documentation begins with respect for the volunteers. Just replace "documentation" with "software" in the quoted text and see how you like it!
The article made no mention of streaming audio and video. What do they use for Real Audio and Windows Media format files? I hope they didn't leave users in the lurch.
> Apparently, due to rapidly increasing enrollment and long delays to get new books the school is trying to head off future problems.
Well, I predict long delays because everyone is using the printer!