Slashdot Mirror
Project Gutenberg Made Accessible
scishop writes "Mazarin is an open-source interface to Project Gutenberg's library. Mazarin increases the accessibility of Gutenberg's 10,000+ books as it formats the books for HTML display -- providing paginations in addition to generating table of contents and other advanced markup features -- along with enabling users to carry out full-text searches on the entire library."
I can not test the claim of all 10k works, but I tested what I thought would be most likely to be left out, and I found that they were there.
I Tested Martin Luther.
(if it was not for the printing press the reformation would not have been as sucsessfull as it was)
But did they have to make the tutorial presentation a fullscreen flash file?
Most of PG's more well-knownalready are formatted into HTML.
I searched on "oil" and came up with numerous passages from various versions of the Bible, and a few recipes from an Italian cookbook. Attempted to search again, but amazingly the site fails to respond...
Nothing but the finest in meaningless drivel
Interesting idea, I can't get to the website but a feature I'd want is the content shared P2P so you don't have to rely on a central server for the content.
;).
A central webpage index could just have ed2k links to the files: sharereactor for books. When they update the book they release a new hash-link and the file onto the network.
It being P2P it could open it up to more then just public domain books too
Less than ten comments, and already slashdotted.
"If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for everyone else."
Fully slashdotted
can someone debug this ?
16: my $dbh=DatabaseConnect("translations");
17:
18: sub Prepare{
19: $dbh=DatabaseConnect("translations");
20: return $dbh->prepare($_[0])
21: or die "Couldn't prepare statement: " . $dbh->errstr;
22: }
23:
Free Web based FTP
Hmm, nicely formatted error messages. Does anyone know what this is? I'm assuming it's a mod_perl handler of some sort.
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
I think the site is about to go down, it's already terribly slow...
Martin
10,000+ books. Right, so I've got to read all of them before I can post a comment?
Oh wait, this is Slashdot.
Where's the Kaboom?
There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
Well, the site failed the
I would say not, it was needed, Luther saw the abuses of the Church in Rome, and tried to correct them, he never wanted to break from the church, and infact the break officialy did not happen till 200 years after Luther died, when Rome said there are 2 churches "them and us"
A guess would be that the script is accessing the database remotely. Thus, if the server is getting slashdotted, there is no way it can talk to the remote database. Instead of die, they should have sent a small text message of "Remote database unreachable."
;)
Hind sight is 20/20
In a place beyond time and space, in a land far better than this, look for me there...
Bah - I already have a fully functional API to the books.
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
This sounds like it just adds complexity and does not make gutenberg's data accessible.
There were several research projects for which I used pg as a corpus. However, pg's a terrible hassle for the first-time researcher, since the format of the introductory text ("we're gutenberg, here's the copyright, blah blah") is inconsistent.
You have to remove the introductory text to avoid bias in the corpus, however there are so many pathological special cases (different formats, spelling, languages, words used, punctuation, case) that it requires several hours of Perl coding to successfully strip the header text from 75% of the documents with >99% accuracy. Yuk.
If gutenberg is serious about making their work more accessible, they should think about the simple concern of ensuring consistency in the header text format.
I think a lot of the unfortunate twists in European history are due to the Catholic church becoming so corrupt as to cause a reformation in the first place.
Anyone want to buy an indulgence?
since some seem to have trouble on the index page... here it is:
Project Gutenberg is the brainchild of Michael Hart, who in 1971 decided that it would be a really good idea if lots of famous and important texts were freely available to everyone in the world. Since then, he has been joined by hundreds of volunteers who share his vision.
Now, more than thirty years later, Project Gutenberg has the following figures (as of November 8th 2002): 203 New eBooks released during October 2002, 1975 New eBooks produced in 2002 (they were 1240 in 2001) for a total of 6267 Total Project Gutenberg eBooks. 119 eBooks have been posted so far by Project Gutenberg of Australia.
Click here for the full PG story and here for the latest News , and learn about the Stockholm Challenge Award recently won by Project Gutenberg in the category Culture.
The key link is search page.
Do you need a website upgrade?
What's the best way to read online texts? There are a bunch of PG texts I might like to read, but reading them in a web browser, as a big text file gets tiring after ten minutes or so. I'm not sure why I can read a book for hours, but the screen for minutes, but there you have it. I don't think that HTML will help this problem -- does anyone have recommendations for better ways to read these files?
I love sexy robot voice tutorials! mazarin tutorial
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." -Albert Einstein
Karma? There's a serial modder out there.
...into Latin or some other dead language.
WTF is with people who say that "haha - the website is slashdotted, here is the error message". WE WILL FIGURE IT OUT OURSELVES OR READ THE OTHER TEN MESSAGES THAT SAY THAT. Thanks for your consideration.
I fear a source code dump would put me off my lunch faster than a goatsex link.
indulgences are the only valid point ever made by people against the Catholic Church. They don't do them anymore.
Bah. Posting HTML is so 1996. You can do so much more with these texts. One example is Open Source Shakespeare, which takes all of Shakespeare's texts, indexes them, presents them in an attractive manner, creates a concordance, provides a full-text search engine, organizes the lines by character, etc.
All of the texts are open source, and you can download the database and source code from the site, too. Check it out.
And that is why we are slashdotting it?
At least thats my experience after "testing" it now.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Monday May 24, @03:14PM : Project Gutenberg made accessible
Monday May 24, @03:15PM : Project Gutenberg made inaccessible
OH no??
c e.htm
see http://www.divinemercysunday.com/plenary_indulgen
RTFL
Read The F(ine) Library!
Unless you have read the entire body of work that makes up human civilization, you do not have the requisite knowledge to comment on any aspect of it.
It was very convenient for the Roman Church to have a practical monopoly on what was widely acknowledged at the time to be the main source of information, the Holy Bible. When the printing press was invented, this diluted that monopoly, since then the ordinary people could afford their own copies of the Bible and became independent from the Church for information. Luther was one of the first to realize that, when he urged people to read the Bible. A consequence of that was that people learned to read. Until early in the 20th century, the literacy rate for countries which are mostly Lutheran, e.g. Scandinavian countries and parts of Germany, were much higher than in southern Europe, where people were mostly Catholic.
A modern analogy:
Catholic Church --> RIAA
Lutheranism --> P2P
"Project Gutenberg Made Accessible"
Oh, the irony that is slashdot.
The way to a man's heart is through the left ventricle
I mean /selling/ indlugences. Christ gave his deciples the power to forgive sins in his name. He also gave them the power to recruite more and pass it on. We call these people Priests. The Pope is the direct Apistolic succesion of St. Peter, who was given by Christ the power to make up rules for His Church.
Indlugence is a forgiveness of sins. Selling them is kind of BS. Giving them out is not.
The 'DatabaseConnect' function didn't return anything.
Not a big deal, really, but they probably should have trapped that, as it could happen for any number of reasons (database down, authentication failed, etc).
I find that I'm getting much slower when I write programs these days -- because I'm checking errors for those things that I would've just blown off, or not have thought about in my earlier days.
[there's a few different things that could be done to this -- but I don't know why they're calling DatabaseConnect both at lines 16 and 19, so it would be careless of me to recommend a solution to code that I don't fully understand, and can't see the whole context]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Information doesn't want anything. It merely is.
and what is wrong with monopoly? Uniformity breeds community.
Well, to be fair, luteranism would be more like iTunes or something similar. He still wanted money from the congregation, it wasn't free.
stuff
Mazarin increases the accessibility of Gutenberg's 10,000+ books
In a related story, the Slashdot effect decreases the accessibility of Gutenberg's 10,000+ book.
Indlugences and the office of the keys are diffent things. As a Luthern I accept the Office of the Keys (I go to private confession every week) but indlugences are you do this good work you get this. Which is probably why the church of Rome is still stuck in works righousness.
To be fair, lutheranism is more akin to iTunes than p2p. Luther still believed in tithes, whereas p2p is free.
stuff
1.Stifling free and creative thought - Inquisition.
2.Corruption, Politics and the Anti-Popes - Great Schism
3.Crusade of 1420 - Hunting the "Heretics" - Great Schism
4.Taxation without representation - Forced Tithe
5.Not honoring the will of Jesus Christ their Lord - General
The list goes on and on, forced confessions, burning bones, and other weird ass shiat and they are all valid. I apologize for the sarcastic tone in number 5.
Gotta turn a living you know...
and just think, the Chinese and Koreans both had movable typeface long before Gutenberg did.
indulgences are the only valid point ever made by people against the Catholic Church. They don't do them anymore.
Really?
What about the Inquisition?
What about Galileo?
What about pedophile priests?
What about...
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
how does someone named Michael O'Connor end up a Lutheran?
maybe if we had them when they did, John Hus would be the one that did the reforming instead of being burned http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-hi story/john-hus.html
think of it if Hus was successfull instead of being a lutherian I would be called a husian (ok maybe not)
Film at 11.
Information doesn't want anything. It merely is.
and what is wrong with monopoly? Uniformity breeds community.
Mind viruses are a sad thing.
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
is that when the body of a text passes is a certain length it should not all be in italics, because a long body of text written in italics becomes difficult to read, similar to the practice of writing a long document IN ALL CAPS, BOTH OF THESE FORMS OF AWRITING A LONG DOCUMENT MAKE THE TEXT VERY HARD TO READ, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE EYE VIEWS THE SERIF LETTERS. THIS FOLK BELIEF IS TRUE.
well you might ask:
How some one named Michael Patrick O'Connor end up a Lutheran, when his paternal Grandpartes are Roman Chathloic?
Well I would have to say I think what the [confessional*] Lutherian church teaches fits what I see people to be. aka the total depravity of man, when I look around I don't see that humans are good, when I look inside myself I see evil, though I don't want to be. I look and see a just God, no way I could ever appease him by my works.
(*I use confessional here, because there are some "lutherians" that are not lutherians, read elca manly but there are a few in the lcms too, that are not lutherian even though they claim to be)
http://www.gutenberg.net/etext04/awbv110.txt
there in HTML.
The first volume was converted to HTML by hand by someone else and to pdf, by machine, I think, whereas my site simply has the e-text:
http://rjs.org/gutenberg/Stevens_Thomas/
So an automated process would be a boon. What I'd really like to see is an OS text-to-voice reader program. I wrote a wxPython program to assist conversion from scanned text to PG format: http://rjs.org/gutenberg/OCR2Gutenberg/, but I have never been able to find a free set of spoken word wave files or speech library.
Ray
http://rjs.org/ - biking, astronomy, photography
Good grief. I think you should review your church history! At the time the Roman Catholic church was a massively corrupt bureaucracy that supressed ordinary people, was largely usurped by those who wanted power, and didn't teach about God's grace to mankind. In fact, much of the doctrine taught was contrary to the gospels. Papal bull, anyone?
I take a different view: just imagine all the problems that we'd still be dealing with if the Reformation had never happened!
I always thought you would be called the Hussies ;)
Wouldn't it be great if Google were involved in Gutenberg in a major way?
What about how the Reformation tackled: transubstantiation, Papal Succession, the ability of priests to marry, idolatory, salvation by works, and the way that the church held (and still holds) Roman Catholic dogma over Holy Scripture. There are more, but I think this will do for now.
Really, Indulgences were a way of raising money for the church, and I see it as a symptom of the wider corruption that had occurred in the Roman Catholic church.
Nothing is wrong with a monopoly, however it tends to breed corruption and abuse. In the Roman Catholic church's case, these things happened. Why do you think the church had a counter-reformation???
Quote:
...donating to the good cause. If you don't want to donate money, volunteer to proofread, or it might be worth it for writers out there to consider a notation in your will that will allow your works to pass either directly into the public domain, or, as i have been in contact with lawyers to discuss, simply passing the copyright of your own works on to project gutenberg. This allows them more work to publish, and if you're in a contract somewhere that allows for royalty collection, you can set it up so that those royalties switch to project gutenberg at the time of your death.
Now might also be a good time to contribute an hour a week to a literacy project, or to make a donation there. Adult literacy is a serious issue all over the world, and that includes right here in the states, where there really are bright people out there who could have better lives if they could read. I can't think of a more on-topic subject than project gutenberg to discuss adult literacy and the need for both literacy teaching and to support free literature for the masses such as this project provides.
Just my $0.02...
solemndragon
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
I am information packed into 4 dimensional space. I want to be free.
At the risk of pointing out the obvious, Michael Hart's decision to make the basic format of PG texts "plain vanilla ASCII" has resulted in texts that are highly accessible by any meaning I can think of for that word. They are also compact, platform-agnostic, and durable. Texts contributed in the 1980s are fully usable today.
While there have been constant complaints about PG using the "wrong" format, opinions on the "right" format have been the flavor-of-the-month (or at least several flavors per decade). Had PG decided to use a "better" format, all of their volunteer time would probably have been taken up converting (say) WordPerfect to RTF to HTML to SGML to XML, leaving relatively little time to digitize and proofread texts.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
[confessional*] Lutherian church
Is this a particular Lutheran synod? I've never heard of it.
Proverbs 21:19
It's great - I now have that on my laptop hard drive, mountable by Alcohol, so I'll never be short of anything to read, especially when the web's not available...
I can't find the torrent file I got it through, but if it helps the filename is pgdvd.iso and the size is 4,139,646,976 bytes.
Maybe by being intelligent and reading about the roman catholic curch would make one want to change. Or maybe he was an altar boy when young and didn't like being raped by his priest.
6. Celibacy - Pederasty
And not one mention of the screenplay for Police Academy.
When the printing press was invented, this diluted that monopoly, since then the ordinary people could afford their own copies of the Bible and became independent from the Church for information.
Not only that, but Luther translated the Bible into the common tongue. He used to hang out in pubs and the market and make notes of how people really spoke so that his translation would reflect day-to-day usage. The result - which is solidly argued in The Sovereign Individual and elsewhere - is that the common man realised once he read the Bible for himself that he didn't have to prop up the corrupt and extravagant monstrosity that was Rome then - economically or otherwise.
Catholic Church --> RIAA
The modern nation state is not a bad analogy either - extortion of taxes by force and the threat of jail, mean grasping and extravagant - and totally unnecessary for true free enterprise. But that's a whole other discussion...
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
How do you know that? Apart from the religious dogma that postulates the existence of a homunculus called the "soul", we do not know much about how consciousness arises. What we do know is that information doesn't exist in a vacuum. Information needs a physical medium to exist. Check "An Introduction to Information Theory", by John R. Pierce, Dover Publications, ISBN 0-486-24061-4, chapter 10 - "Information Theory and Physics" for a basic explanation why. Now, assuming a certain body of information and a system to handle that information, we have no idea if a sufficiently large amount of information with the right manipulation system will have consciousness. Sometime in the next few decades we will have machines with the same complexity and information-handling power as a human brain, then perhaps we will be able to create a conscious machine with free-will.
Anyhow, that's not the point. "Information wants to be free" is just an easier way to say that human beings have an urge to share whatever information they have with other humans. History has shown that, given efficient communication media, it's very difficult to maintain information secret.
and what is wrong with monopoly?
Intrinsically, nothing. Some public utilities are natural monopolies, it wouldn't be practical to run several different water, gas, and electricity supplies to each house, for instance. Sometimes a monopoly is useful in developing a new technology. The Bell Telephone Co., in the first half of the 20th century, did create a relatively cheap and efficient phone system using a monopoly. Microsoft created a widely used personal computer standard using a monopoly. There are some circumstances under which a new technology spreads faster if a monopoly exists. But a monopoly also induces slackness. Monopoly holders will not be eager to try harder. When growth starts levelling off, a monopoly usually stagnates. That was bad for Christianism, it was bad for the telephone system, it was bad for personal computers... may I generalize?
Sorry, but you are a dismal failure. Better luck next time.
Support HP and Lexmark, print it. Unfortunately, I have never found any electronic reading medium that compares with a paper book. In my experience, there's no way you can lie down in a couch or bed and have the same experience with a computer as you can have with a book. I have used my very lightweight Sony Vaio, but it still generates a lot of heat, and has a ridiculous 1024x768 resolution.
no, it like you have republicans and democrates, well in the LCMS you have Confessionals and "church grouth"
hell the Gutenberg Project is faster than /. for news.
I see. But you write LCMS, which I understand to mean the Missouri Synod. All the LCMS members I've known are pretty conservative. The LCUSA(?) seems pretty liberal.
It's just that you don't often see anyone talking about "total depravity" outside traditional reformed circles (of which I am a part).
Proverbs 21:19
yes the Missouri Synod, but unfortantly there are some liberals still hanging around, all I have to say is Banky, most people might not know what I am talking about there, but in the LCMS that is a hot topic right now.
Well, in my converstaions with information I have determined that while some information does indeed want to be free, other information does not want to rock the boat. Some information simply wants to be left alone. There are also some sub-groups of information that are blissfully ignorant of their situation and do not realize that they are not already free.
I have not had the time to speak with all information, so this is merely anecdotal evidence of the diversity of opinion among informations.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
The modern nation state is not a bad analogy either
The proper analogy is to the modern non-democratic nation-state, which was first overthrown in 1776. Now authoritarian power is vested in the corporation. Given the "L'etat, c'est moi" attitude of most CEOs, I wouldn't be surprised to see yet another Reformation or Enlightenment-style overthrow of corrupt autocratic leaders in our lifetime.
What with Disney getting the copyright limit extended each time they risk losing the Mouse and the laws saying that a copyright exists on all works even if not formally copyrighted, unless otherwise stated by the author, there's a good chance that we won't have new books in the public domain for a long time...
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Some public utilities are natural monopolies, it wouldn't be practical to run several different water, gas, and electricity supplies to each house, for instance. Sometimes a monopoly is useful in developing a new technology. The Bell Telephone Co., in the first half of the 20th century, did create a relatively cheap and efficient phone system using a monopoly.
Wrong and wrong.
While it may not be practical to run different water, gas, and electrical conduits to each building, that says nothing about requiring a monopoly. Especially with respect to gas and electricity, the thing being sold is an absolute commodity. The electricity created by wind power isn't any different than the electricity created by nuclear power. So what is needed is simply a way for me to sign up for wind or nuclear power at their price, they contribute to the grid in an amount commensurate to my usage... you get the idea. Same would work better for water if the water being pumped in were distilled (pure) water. But even so, with the certain additives and purity requirements, water is water. So, again, the only thing that needs to be unified is the pipes. These natural monopolies only make sense in the same way the government probably ought to have a natural monopoly on roads.
I also think you're vastly overestimating the power of monopoly for development. Bell did not have a monopoly on phone service until the government handed them one. Microsoft did not develop anything using a monopoly. They built a monopoly after years of competing against companies like Apple, Commodore, and even IBM.
I do not have a signature
Information wants you to give me a dollar.
I use Fujitsu p1120 + SuSE Linux 9.1. Very light, less than 1 Kg, lighter than many books, I can hold it in a single hand. It has an 8.9 inch panoramic screen; it is MUCH better than any PDA or dedicated book reader. It comes with a 30Gb drive, which I replaced with an 80 GB drive. Right now no PDA or book reader has 80 GB storage!. The Gutenberg DVD is only 4 GB, I copied it to my p1120.
But implicit in your argument is the contrary position (not made clear: you have an 'until' but not a 'from')...
Before the printing press, literacy among Roman Catholics was surely higher than among the populations of non-Catholic countries since the Roman Catholic Church was actually able and willing to educate people (albeit, in some part, to copy the vulgate bible... and paid for by scaring the laiety by reading and misinterpreting only the Latin therein!)
(This also extends to your analogy: RIAA versus P2P - because, before the change in technological climate, RIAA, like the Roman Catholic Church, did do some good... Just not enough to justify their own existence in the modern world, imho.)
This site has done basically the same thing w/ Gutenberg text, and did it years ago. Provides searching, html format, bookmark, etc. www.crankylibrarian.com
Hey I will indulge you for *FREE*
BTW, re: bsDaemon anyone else think this handle is hilarious?
I didn't know he had 10,000+ films under his belt! I need to update my "Three Men And A Little Bastard" collection!
I really hope you're right...
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
(1) The late, lamented Newton.
(2) A high-resolution Palm screen with PalmReader Pro (now eReader) and the Bell 18-point serif font. Some, but not all, of their commercial books do paragraphing correctly (i.e., \n\t, not \n\n); almost all the non-commercial ebooks I've found get this uniformly wrong: A decade of low-resolution screens is no excuse for ignoring a millennium of reading tradition.
(3) Safari on an LCD screen with a custom style sheet, rendering
as \n\t:
P {text-indent: 1em; margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0;
padding-bottom: 0; padding-top: 0; }
---
Disclaimer: There are various complicated relations between some of my employers and the companies mentioned above.
True, there were abuses in the Roman Catholic church at the time, mainly by a pope who came from rich and powerful family (Medici), and spent lavishly and wanted to replenish the cash he wasted by selling indulgences.
Luther wanted to reform the church, however, the events that ensued, compounded by Luther's personality and style made the schim irreversible.
The church called him to answer for what he wrote. He did not obey. He found protection with a ruler. The church played the excommunication card. He responded by declaring the pope to be Anti Christ. His abrasive and confrontational character, and his fire and brimstone rhetoric made reconciliation impossible.
Had he been more like Calvin, reconciliation was possible
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
> However, it insists on at least a plain vanilla version of a text, as that format has proven to be the most durable and accessible.
Sometimes the illustrations that accompany a text are crucial for its understanding.
How about using the Text Encoding Initiative's TEI XML format instead? Graphics can be included using its figure tag. Combine the TEI XML markup with Dublin Core metadata and people could search PG's library by author, publication date, publisher, etc.
The markup can be stored as ASCII text and edited with a simple text editor. This format can also be rendered to ASCII for legacy purposes...
Luther was there, it is called the Diet of Worms, that told him to recant, he told them unless he was shown by scripture or plain reason it was not safe to recant. They could not show him where he was "in error"
And the the pope being the anti-christ "he sets himself up in the temple of God, and says blaspmis things" seams to fit the office of the pope.
that's perl for you.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
No argument printing and literacy are linked. However, since most people would consider the Bible more of an historical account than "the main source of information", even 'at that time', it's a weak premise that printing the Bible awakened people to any greater purpose. Besides which, printing only correlates to the Bible thanks to Gutenberg. It is rather narrow minded, if not self serving, to 'read' more into that correlation. It isn't the control of the Bible but the control of ideas that the printing press removed the strangle hold on.
That way of allowing multiple suppliers of gas and electricity is exactly what happens here in the UK -- leading to the bizarre situation where you can get your electricity from British Gas, and your gas from Eastern Electricity!
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
If I had a diet of worms, I'd be abrasive and confrontational as well.
This message has been scanned for memes and dangerous content by MindScanner, and is believed to be unclean.
I've created an RSS feed from the Project Gutenberg list of etexts. The RSS feed contains titles, authors, descriptions and links to the relevant page or file on http://www.gutenberg.net/
PGDB.rss PGDB.rss.gz
Thanks for the details.
...etc.
I think after that Diet, he was summoned to Rome, to appear in presence of the Pope. He did not. And since he found a protector, and supporters, the schism just widened, instead of being killed there as just another heresey.
Of course there are other factors why the Protestant movement was successful and not suppressed. For example, Henry VIII of England adopting a version of it. The alignment of various hostilities in Europe to either pro or anti Reformation. The allure of 'by faith only' and 'not by deeds'.
The Catholic Church was due for a reformation. Why it was a schism and not just a movement within Catholicism is mainly due to Luther's character and style.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
I read French, Spanish and German in addition to English. These languages have diacriticals and special characters which are not covered in ASCII, because ASCII was created for English and English only.
So you can say that the use of ASCII prevented Project Gutenberg, in the earlier days, from considering working with any texts in any language other than English.
Now that Unicode 8 is a standard, it's possible for classic works in many languages to be represented in Gutenberg or affiliated projects.
If not, I get text files from Gutenberg and format them in HTML.
I purchased the iSilo program for the Palm for US $20
http://isilo.com/
, which comes with a free program (IWindows, Mac and Linux!) to convert HTML pages into iSilo format. It works great and preserves graphics, hyperlinks, CSS, bookmarks and more. It uses color if your handheld supports it.
So I do all my Gutenberg reading on my Clie SJ22 with a 320 x 320 color display.
Galeleo was a dick, he was put under house arrest for calling the pope a simpleton, and for refusing evidence at his trial that would have proved the Copernican model. While the Inquizition was bad, Galileo isn't anything you can pin on them. Now the Peodphile preists thing they are arguably handling poorly, but they are probably trying to avoid another inquisition.
That which is done from love exists beyond good and evil
What doctrines were contrary to the bible, which by the is a catholic book if you did not notice, can you point out what these doctrines were an why they are contrary
...Gotta love how a self-serving interest can be an instrument for such fundemental social change!
The reason he did not go, was he was informed that if he would go he surly would have been killed on the way. In fact the "holy roman emperor" had ordered him killed on his way home from the diet, he was abducted by agents of King Fredric the wise and hidden away for to protect his life.
it not a diet of worms as you read in english it is a german statment meaning
diet = A formal general assembly of the princes or estates of the Holy Roman Empire
worms = the location of the diet
hence the diet of worms.
Sure, why not?
Papal Indulgences were the biggy - originally they were a development of the idea of atonement through your own merit, which is contrary to what Paul writes in Ephesians, that "it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph 2:8-9) Of course, these soon became sort of a magical sin-forgiver that fixes up all evil done. My favourite story is one I heard about a Duke who purchased an Indulgence that forgave him for all sins committed, and all sins that he was still to commit. This cost the Duke a fair amount of money, so he waited for the Indulgence seller to ride by again and, with his men, robbed him blind (thus he gained all his money back). When the seller objected, he was informed that the Duke had committed no sin, and the document was produced that the Indulgence seller had sold to the Duke!
Now let's not talk about Lent, where the Roman Catholic church jailed and fined Zwingli's friends for eating sausages. This was done on religious grounds, and it's hard to work out where in the Bible it states that people must be forced into fasting!
And incidently, the Bible is not a "Catholic" (by which I guess you mean Roman Catholic) book, it's a collection of books formalised in the canon. You might be interested to know that the canon was only gradually formalised after there was a fair degree of consensus in the church. In fact, you'll find that the canon has been changed a few times in the history of the Church - the Muratorian Canon (formed about 200AD), the New Testament used by Origen (about 250AD), the New Testament used by Eusebius (about 300AD) and the NT formed by the council of Carthage in about 400AD.
The problem is that, in Christianity, you can only have a monopoly, at least as far as Christ's intentions are concerned. Christ only founded one Church (Mt. 16:18-19), not several churches.
While it's good to correct abuses, that's no excuse for doing what Luther did, i.e. making up new theology that contradicts the teaching of Christ's Church.
The idea that there were no Catholic editions of the Bible in vernacular languages is a myth:
I guess some people on /. can't face the truth of this fellow's statement.
Good page! Too much here for me to argue with right off the bat. I guess it's time to stop putting off my study of the Reformation...
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
Quite wisely. A Pre-reformer who went, Johann Huss, was granted a promise of his safety. The then-current Pope gave him audience and asked him to explain his views. Behind a curtain the Pope's secretary took notes, and instead of allowing him back to Bohemia he was given to the Inquisition to be burnt, with the secretary's notes as proof of heresy.
He never did. He only separated the Church of England from Rome. It was not until the reign of Elisabeth that the bishops of England reformed their church.
The Roman Church had already killed quite some Pre-reformists. Why it would have been different with Luther I don't see.
Go read Luther's thesis. They were quite respectful to the Pope. It was the Pope who insisted on the status quo, and that Luther's conscience could not accept.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
He never adopted Protestantism. He merely separated from Rome. Reform in England was done by the bishops after Henry's death, during the reign of Elisabeth.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
How come Rome never reconciled with Calvin, nor with Constantinople, nor with Huss, nor with Jean Valdo...
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
Plenty is wrong. A monopoly means the exclusion of all others, and consequently of at least some freedoms.
In fact the only way of keeping a monopoly eternally is creating a police state.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
Problem is, that is quite the only place where church is used in the universal sense. Mostly everywhere else the sense is local.
Even if you take the universal sense, there is no indication that the universal church is to be one only institution. The church is a body, not an institution.
That's not what he did.
What he did was to recover Christ's and the Apostles' theology against Rome's relatively new theology.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
But that was never the point, it is common knowledge that when the Vulgata was translated, Vulgar Latim was the vernacular in the West.
The point is that Rome resourced not to the Bible, but to the more recent Fathers and to itself, effectively discouraging the reading of the Bible to the point of requiring episcopal approval for someone wishing to read it, as per its inclusion in the Index Librorum Prohibitorum.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
Even more interesting, they never did much of it, as with powder, the compass, long-ranging ships...
The same applies to Greeks and Romans with steam power.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
That was supposed to moderated +5 Funny.
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Well, I maintain there is no excuse for the Roman Catholic church to teach that which isn't in Holy Scripture.
I strongly suggest you read church history again. Luther didn't initially want to split with the church. He was a monk, for goodness sake! He actually read scripture properly.
Roman Catholics who follow the traditions of the church rather than follow the Bible should consider very carefully what they are doing.