Even cooler is that you can strap an 18GB hard drive into those old machines and it freakin' works! Try strapping a drive that big into a PC from that era, it looks at you silly when you try to teach it that there's more than 2GB in the world.
My Dad has been using his Mac Plus problem-free for about 17 years. He has a G4 that he uses for his graphic design work, but when he needs to do billing or add/search contacts he turns to the Mac Plus running his do-everything Hypercard stack running under System 6.0.8.
The machine has an 8MHz 68000, 1MB RAM, a 20MB hard drive (external under-mac that I spent three years convincing him to use), and an ImageWriter II dot-matrix printer that screams to high-heaven, but prints beautiful three-part forms.
I don't think the machine has ever been opened for even a cleaning. They don't build 'em like they used to.
I still prefer OSS, even on my 2.6 testbox, ALSA is about two-and-a-half more bitches to set up from scratch. I really hate having to do all the module configs when OSS just seems to work.
All I really need is playback from my systems, ALSA is overkill for my needs, and I hate recompiling the alsa-drivers package every time I update my kernel (on 2.4 systems).
Hopefully someone will automate or simplify ALSA for low-end use.
Not really, the magic is that the application icon in OS X is really just a folder with folders inside it, including what would normally be installed as seperate files in Windows. See, in Windows you have a binary.exe file and a whole slew of other files installed all over the system (dlls, jpgs, gifs, inis, etc.). In OSX you have one icon that's a folder with the 'tidbits' in it and seperate folders for binaries for different machines. To get this working under Windows you would need a different binary loader, and probably a different binary format, or a very intricate 'wrapper' script. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this come out with longhorn though, considering that we will be dealing with several different architectures at that point (x86, x86-64, ia-64) and it would leave 'room to grow' for the new Windows platform.
Well, they're evil, but if we suck up to them they'll be the best thing to happen to Linux/OSS in a LONG time. IBM is like that too, they're looking at exploiting Linux, which isn't so bad because the GPL makes it impossible for them to take it away from us.
I just realized that thanks to your point-out. There really ought to be markup for that, so you can view a conversation the way you want it, and so can others involved.
I have a friend who works at the Underwater Naval Warfare Center here in Newport, RI. He develops code that runs automated warfare and fleet movement. He says that about HALF of their 3000 machines are running RedHat Linux.
I was amazed to hear this, because there seems to be almost no Linux penetration in RI, only 7 users are registered here on LinuxCounter. I also have only seen one Linux box in RI in actual use (outside University), and it was just being used at a router at a non-profit.
Every time I asked a boss or a client about using Linux for menial purposes (file/print servers, routers/firewalls, etc.) They practically laugh me out of the room. I finally found a job that's OSS friendly, but it's in Boston where people have their heads on straight.
don't forget x86, there's nothing STOPPING the *.app files from holding code for any architecture. If Apple ever does have to jump ship to x86 I'm sure there'll be a lot of apps that are distributed with PPC and x86 (and probably x86-64) executables inside them.
unfortunately at this time, no. There was a Samba fork that could do that for a while, but there was little popular interest.
Also, the overhead from Cygwin would probably make Samba significantly slower than it should be. A more 'unified' solution would probably have a lot better chance of penetration.
Actually, this would be GREAT in terms of administration and linux migration.
You cold slowly move services to SAMBA-on-Windows, carefully saving your/etc/smb.conf files until one day you reimage all the member servers and BDCs to Linux/SAMBA and restore the configs. It would be a bit more involved, but MUCH safer than just commandeering existing hardware and putting Linux on it.
I'm convinced that StarFleet actually never implemented core ejection, it's there in the technical manuals, and the engineers think they can do it, but when the moment finally comes it never works.
Or did Geordi actually sever the exploding bolts on the core to raise the stakes? We'll never know.
But the PowerPC line has superior signal processing capabilities these days, is much easier for compilers to cater to, and runs cooler and more efficient than the X86 offerings.
AFAIK, x86 units since the i686 have all used a RISC-like core that runs x86 ops by breaking them down into micro-ops and reconstituting them. It -works- but whay do that when the real thing is available?
I think PowerPC would have a real future if MS lost full dominance of the PC market, it's a very short leap from Linux/OS X/BSD/whatever on x86 to the same on PPC. And now that IBM is making them tere seems t be a much more serious commitment to the architecture as a whole.
You can knock that Duron MUCH lower in the clock and get comparable file server performance. I just underclocked my G3 file server from 450 to 300 Mhz and benchmarks are showing no difference in throughput or latency. Saves me a few cents in juice every month too, and runs much cooler than before (which was already cool enough to run fanless)
Not quite, part of the deal about writing off charitable contributions is that you don't recieve any goods or services in exchange for the donation, otherwise the church would be the world's most powerful outsourcing firm and grocery.
Every reciept I've ever recieved for a donation says something to the effect of 'no goods or services were exchanged for this donation, keep this form for taxes'
I prefer to carpet my workspace for warmth (Rhode Island, is 25-degrees right now) and comfort. If you lay down a dark carpet that extends a few feet beyond the work area in each direction over hardwood or cement you can hear if a screw gets away and which direction it headed.
But the 'cleanliness' of the drivers seems to be a function of how many people use them in the real world, and how 'good' the cards are. I've seen the 3C59x, AIC-7xxx, and Intel eepro drivers and they're looking pretty good. I don't think I've EVER even seen a PCNET card, nor do I think too many people would be upset if the code broke and nobody fixed it.
I've said this before, I 'upgraded' from a 60GB ATA/100 drive to a 9GB Ultra2Wide (80MB/sec) SCSI drive. My applicatiopn launch times are ONE THIRD what they were when using the ATA drive. Both were 7200 RPM.
I also get better performance on my NFS-mounted SCSI drive than I do on most locally-mounted ATA drives.
The sequential throughput of a drive is a function of RPM and density, but the 'real-world' performance is helped primarily by TCQ and superior buffering.
Re:Real world vs. fanboy fantasies
on
CES 2004 Coverage
·
· Score: 1
Reading this post has inspired me to rethink my idealistic views on freedom of speech.
If you're a certified professional, you would know that Linux -ISN'T- an OS, it's just the kernel, the GNU tools make up the majority of the OS.
There is no 'Linux' 7, the kernel is up to 2.6. Apache, the most common webserver on Linux is forked between 1.3 and 2.0, IIRC.
Other things, including your wording and the vaugeness of your language indicate that you've been reading too many 'Business Week' and 'IT Professional' magazines and not enough manuals.
If what you were saying were true, that IIS is almost three times faster than Apache for serving web pages, why does over 60% of the web run off Apache? Do you really think server operators and administrators are masochists?
What about security? Sure, there are lots of patches for both platforms, but only one has regular root exploits that actually do large-scale damage to businesses, and only one doesn't even LET you uninstall several major components that present security risks.
Okay, I'm done venting. Go back to reading microsoft.com.
I don't code, but I DO read code and spend a lot of time compiling stuff. The Linux Kernel is some of the cleanest and best-written looking code I've ever seen. Everything is concise and simple, the names of most things make sense, and the build process, even in 2.4, is pretty clean looking.
AFAIK, the SATA command set uses SCSI commands, not ATA, SATA is much more SCSI-over-serial than ATA-over-serial. The drives are ATA-like in quality, performance, and features, but the commands they respond to are SCSI-based in nature.
FireWire, USB, and ATAPI also implement SCSI commands, ATAPI implements SCSI commands -OVER- ATA wires.
What I'd like to see is an abstraction of the SCSI-over-[anything] idea, so new drivers are basically just cutting up an input stream for their respective mediums. ATA as a whole could be implemented as part of this, the drivers would just say that your ATA drive is a SCSI drive, on an ATA bus, with a command set capable of features X,Y, and Z. It would make it a lot easier to implement TCQ and other stuff on ATA drives, and pre-ordered queing on dirty write buffers for slower serial devices.
All storage should be based on the most capable and broad command set, with lower-level drivers disabling features (fom said command set) to their needs.
Anybody interested in founding a savings and loan? How about one with a person offshore holding the money? I'm really sick of my account being flagged for 'suspicious activity' (I do LOTS of $100 cash transfers and wire transfers). Can I do my banking somewhere where Uncle Sam can't get in the way?
Objective C is supported by GCC, that's what a fair amount of OS X was written in and the entire system is compiled with GCC. The only problems I would forsee if Apple released source today would be the Quartz GUI, but I'll bet it wouldn't be too hard to strip the GUI and/or replace it with a GTK+ or QT front-end.
That's because that large bottle of 'Thermal Grease' You eBayed from me was really LUBRIDERM! Soon your keyboard will be greasy as disco hair and ready for CONQUEST!
One way or another, our subsidies aren't working for the public at large OR the developing/undeveloped nations, they're working for the farmers. If what you're saying is true then there need not be a seperate system for farmers, we have WELFARE for people who are entitled to taxpayer money for not working. I really don't understand how anyone thinks it's fair that JoeFarmer doesn't have to run a solid sustainable business to keep his house and food on his plate, I know I do. I know, there's tradition, and America 'loves' farmers, but I don't see it as a reason to have a whole seperate class of society that we pay to be dysfunctional and non-productive.
Another thing, if farmers are PAID to NOT produce, as you said, why not PRODUCE anyway, bring on extra labor, boost employment, AND feed the poor? Once again we're shooting ourselves in the foot with a flamethrower and wondering why it burns.
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Even cooler is that you can strap an 18GB hard drive into those old machines and it freakin' works! Try strapping a drive that big into a PC from that era, it looks at you silly when you try to teach it that there's more than 2GB in the world.
My Dad has been using his Mac Plus problem-free for about 17 years. He has a G4 that he uses for his graphic design work, but when he needs to do billing or add/search contacts he turns to the Mac Plus running his do-everything Hypercard stack running under System 6.0.8.
The machine has an 8MHz 68000, 1MB RAM, a 20MB hard drive (external under-mac that I spent three years convincing him to use), and an ImageWriter II dot-matrix printer that screams to high-heaven, but prints beautiful three-part forms.
I don't think the machine has ever been opened for even a cleaning. They don't build 'em like they used to.
I still prefer OSS, even on my 2.6 testbox, ALSA is about two-and-a-half more bitches to set up from scratch. I really hate having to do all the module configs when OSS just seems to work.
All I really need is playback from my systems, ALSA is overkill for my needs, and I hate recompiling the alsa-drivers package every time I update my kernel (on 2.4 systems).
Hopefully someone will automate or simplify ALSA for low-end use.
Not really, the magic is that the application icon in OS X is really just a folder with folders inside it, including what would normally be installed as seperate files in Windows. See, in Windows you have a binary .exe file and a whole slew of other files installed all over the system (dlls, jpgs, gifs, inis, etc.). In OSX you have one icon that's a folder with the 'tidbits' in it and seperate folders for binaries for different machines. To get this working under Windows you would need a different binary loader, and probably a different binary format, or a very intricate 'wrapper' script. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this come out with longhorn though, considering that we will be dealing with several different architectures at that point (x86, x86-64, ia-64) and it would leave 'room to grow' for the new Windows platform.
Well, they're evil, but if we suck up to them they'll be the best thing to happen to Linux/OSS in a LONG time. IBM is like that too, they're looking at exploiting Linux, which isn't so bad because the GPL makes it impossible for them to take it away from us.
I just realized that thanks to your point-out. There really ought to be markup for that, so you can view a conversation the way you want it, and so can others involved.
I have a friend who works at the Underwater Naval Warfare Center here in Newport, RI. He develops code that runs automated warfare and fleet movement. He says that about HALF of their 3000 machines are running RedHat Linux.
I was amazed to hear this, because there seems to be almost no Linux penetration in RI, only 7 users are registered here on LinuxCounter. I also have only seen one Linux box in RI in actual use (outside University), and it was just being used at a router at a non-profit.
Every time I asked a boss or a client about using Linux for menial purposes (file/print servers, routers/firewalls, etc.) They practically laugh me out of the room. I finally found a job that's OSS friendly, but it's in Boston where people have their heads on straight.
don't forget x86, there's nothing STOPPING the *.app files from holding code for any architecture. If Apple ever does have to jump ship to x86 I'm sure there'll be a lot of apps that are distributed with PPC and x86 (and probably x86-64) executables inside them.
One Application Icon to Rule Them All.
unfortunately at this time, no. There was a Samba fork that could do that for a while, but there was little popular interest.
Also, the overhead from Cygwin would probably make Samba significantly slower than it should be. A more 'unified' solution would probably have a lot better chance of penetration.
Actually, this would be GREAT in terms of administration and linux migration.
/etc/smb.conf files until one day you reimage all the member servers and BDCs to Linux/SAMBA and restore the configs. It would be a bit more involved, but MUCH safer than just commandeering existing hardware and putting Linux on it.
You cold slowly move services to SAMBA-on-Windows, carefully saving your
I'm convinced that StarFleet actually never implemented core ejection, it's there in the technical manuals, and the engineers think they can do it, but when the moment finally comes it never works.
Or did Geordi actually sever the exploding bolts on the core to raise the stakes? We'll never know.
But the PowerPC line has superior signal processing capabilities these days, is much easier for compilers to cater to, and runs cooler and more efficient than the X86 offerings.
AFAIK, x86 units since the i686 have all used a RISC-like core that runs x86 ops by breaking them down into micro-ops and reconstituting them. It -works- but whay do that when the real thing is available?
I think PowerPC would have a real future if MS lost full dominance of the PC market, it's a very short leap from Linux/OS X/BSD/whatever on x86 to the same on PPC. And now that IBM is making them tere seems t be a much more serious commitment to the architecture as a whole.
You can knock that Duron MUCH lower in the clock and get comparable file server performance. I just underclocked my G3 file server from 450 to 300 Mhz and benchmarks are showing no difference in throughput or latency. Saves me a few cents in juice every month too, and runs much cooler than before (which was already cool enough to run fanless)
Because there's an ARMY of PHBs in suits who think that Linux is 'interesting, but just a toy' and this is 'big trouble, they stole SCO code!'
Do you think a guy who's title is 'Vendor Risk Manager' is going to tell his boss to buy -LINUX- right now, with all the conflicting press?
This way Novell makes a buck, and the PHBs can 'safely' deploy. Everybody wins. We even get greater circulation of OUR product in the end!
Not quite, part of the deal about writing off charitable contributions is that you don't recieve any goods or services in exchange for the donation, otherwise the church would be the world's most powerful outsourcing firm and grocery.
Every reciept I've ever recieved for a donation says something to the effect of 'no goods or services were exchanged for this donation, keep this form for taxes'
I prefer to carpet my workspace for warmth (Rhode Island, is 25-degrees right now) and comfort. If you lay down a dark carpet that extends a few feet beyond the work area in each direction over hardwood or cement you can hear if a screw gets away and which direction it headed.
But the 'cleanliness' of the drivers seems to be a function of how many people use them in the real world, and how 'good' the cards are. I've seen the 3C59x, AIC-7xxx, and Intel eepro drivers and they're looking pretty good. I don't think I've EVER even seen a PCNET card, nor do I think too many people would be upset if the code broke and nobody fixed it.
I've said this before, I 'upgraded' from a 60GB ATA/100 drive to a 9GB Ultra2Wide (80MB/sec) SCSI drive. My applicatiopn launch times are ONE THIRD what they were when using the ATA drive. Both were 7200 RPM.
I also get better performance on my NFS-mounted SCSI drive than I do on most locally-mounted ATA drives.
The sequential throughput of a drive is a function of RPM and density, but the 'real-world' performance is helped primarily by TCQ and superior buffering.
Reading this post has inspired me to rethink my idealistic views on freedom of speech.
If you're a certified professional, you would know that Linux -ISN'T- an OS, it's just the kernel, the GNU tools make up the majority of the OS.
There is no 'Linux' 7, the kernel is up to 2.6. Apache, the most common webserver on Linux is forked between 1.3 and 2.0, IIRC.
Other things, including your wording and the vaugeness of your language indicate that you've been reading too many 'Business Week' and 'IT Professional' magazines and not enough manuals.
If what you were saying were true, that IIS is almost three times faster than Apache for serving web pages, why does over 60% of the web run off Apache? Do you really think server operators and administrators are masochists?
What about security? Sure, there are lots of patches for both platforms, but only one has regular root exploits that actually do large-scale damage to businesses, and only one doesn't even LET you uninstall several major components that present security risks.
Okay, I'm done venting. Go back to reading microsoft.com.
I don't code, but I DO read code and spend a lot of time compiling stuff. The Linux Kernel is some of the cleanest and best-written looking code I've ever seen. Everything is concise and simple, the names of most things make sense, and the build process, even in 2.4, is pretty clean looking.
AFAIK, the SATA command set uses SCSI commands, not ATA, SATA is much more SCSI-over-serial than ATA-over-serial. The drives are ATA-like in quality, performance, and features, but the commands they respond to are SCSI-based in nature.
FireWire, USB, and ATAPI also implement SCSI commands, ATAPI implements SCSI commands -OVER- ATA wires.
What I'd like to see is an abstraction of the SCSI-over-[anything] idea, so new drivers are basically just cutting up an input stream for their respective mediums. ATA as a whole could be implemented as part of this, the drivers would just say that your ATA drive is a SCSI drive, on an ATA bus, with a command set capable of features X,Y, and Z. It would make it a lot easier to implement TCQ and other stuff on ATA drives, and pre-ordered queing on dirty write buffers for slower serial devices.
All storage should be based on the most capable and broad command set, with lower-level drivers disabling features (fom said command set) to their needs.
Anybody interested in founding a savings and loan? How about one with a person offshore holding the money? I'm really sick of my account being flagged for 'suspicious activity' (I do LOTS of $100 cash transfers and wire transfers). Can I do my banking somewhere where Uncle Sam can't get in the way?
Objective C is supported by GCC, that's what a fair amount of OS X was written in and the entire system is compiled with GCC. The only problems I would forsee if Apple released source today would be the Quartz GUI, but I'll bet it wouldn't be too hard to strip the GUI and/or replace it with a GTK+ or QT front-end.
That's because that large bottle of 'Thermal Grease' You eBayed from me was really LUBRIDERM! Soon your keyboard will be greasy as disco hair and ready for CONQUEST!
MWUHAHAHAHA!
One way or another, our subsidies aren't working for the public at large OR the developing/undeveloped nations, they're working for the farmers. If what you're saying is true then there need not be a seperate system for farmers, we have WELFARE for people who are entitled to taxpayer money for not working. I really don't understand how anyone thinks it's fair that JoeFarmer doesn't have to run a solid sustainable business to keep his house and food on his plate, I know I do. I know, there's tradition, and America 'loves' farmers, but I don't see it as a reason to have a whole seperate class of society that we pay to be dysfunctional and non-productive.
Another thing, if farmers are PAID to NOT produce, as you said, why not PRODUCE anyway, bring on extra labor, boost employment, AND feed the poor? Once again we're shooting ourselves in the foot with a flamethrower and wondering why it burns.