I would have to respectfully disagree that XFree doesn't need X.org. Only because the vast majority of developers insist that the X standards be adheered to - including XFree developers. The catch-22 occurs because there has never been a feedback mechanism back into the SI from XFree, so anything that XFree code-forked would have to be re-implemented on new X releases. Not a big deal on the driver side.
What was bad about this situation, is that when people start to talk about innovations that require major changes to the SI, we must develop them using extensions for fear of breaking with the SI.(Some things just can't be done using extensions, though) When people start using extensions then traditional application developers are weary of using them because there's little reason for workstation vendors to support these extensions. Most developers always aim for the square middle if possible.
This all changed because X.org realized that the commercial ISV had virtually disappeared. Almost all the commercial work being done was for in-house development and narrowly focused niche markets. The other 99.9% of X developers were using linux and *bsd!!!
I think some innovations have been (until fairly recently) stiffled because of X.org's unwillingness to accept feedback. Features that are just now being implemented or discussed that could have happened 2-4 years ago. (Insert laundry list here)
Another factor is that most X developers really thought X was dead. Heck, even Jim Gettys told me at the last ALS that he was really supprised that X was still around (and pleased that it is!). Knowing how "well documented" the SI is (remember that X is larger than the Linux Kernel?) there was quite a loss of real expertise on X internals.
What you see here is very exciting. You see the ability of XFree to affect the SI. You see a standards organization accepting the true standard. You see a resurgence of expertise in developer resources on the XFree team. You see organizations supporting *very* good things like Precision Insight, SGI, Mesa, and MetroLink.
Okay, as someone who interviews alot of people in a year.. I HAVE to answer this.
First off.. PEOPLE LIE. They say they've managed project X which consisted of buzzword buzzword buzzword. For instance, "I wrote the classes which interfaces an Oracle database into the java application. I used inheritance and operator overloading.. blah blah"
5 minutes later, I'll ask him.. "What is a byte?" Couldn't answer the damn question!
Now, I don't go asking API questions, but I make sure they know types, arrays, pointers, etc.. But I would ask generic questions ABOUT an API. (What does the Xt lib do in X windows?)
The point is that there are too many potted plants masquarading as PROGRAMERS. They read Dr. Dobbs, and PC Week, and can spit buzzwords at you all day. But when you get down to specifics, the thin vail crumbles.
I asked a DBA position candidate (first question, honest) how to insert a row. He actually added a "where" clause. BWAHAHAHA!
So, there is a minumum technical interview required. Some places would require a very deep interview for their projects. (Think "router design and programing" at Cisco!)
I don't think it's necessarily about doing a "better job" - but I do think it clues the interviewer into if the candidate will be able to operate with a core competancy to DO the job.
The other half of the equation is motivation. People that are _not_ motivated, but have the skills are also potted plants.
As a former employee of Tandy, I can say that WITHOUT A DOUBT, this will fail.
Tandy has a habit of blowing deals left and right. IBM sold their machines in RS, now IBM refuses to even let Tandy service those machines. Compaq has had much lower sales than expected in RS.
The incredible universe (iu), McDuffs (md), Computer City (cc)... all BLOWN deals.. one every 3 years.
RS market share is dwindling. MS just wasted 100M.. ohh well!
I've seen upteen number of people on game shows and talk shows make fun of y2k. Or they outright said (with the camera zoomed in) I'm not worried about y2k!
Of course they're trying to make you feel safe.. maybe you shouldn't be so gullable.
I say, why not take a bit of precaution. The red cross is right to tell people to "prepare for bad weather."
In the end, all you have is faith. Personally, I'm betting on some problems.
I know too many dumb programmers. How many do you know?
"So all wiretapping is bad because some wiretapping can be abused?"
No, but under new laws, the FBI will use their new power to constantly scan for illegal activity.
Currently, new cellular protocols are requiring that the FBI be allocated 10% of the total infrastructure for wiretapping. Also, the FBI will be able to "listen" in on active conversations.. they will also be able to use inactive cell phones as microphones.
Now, 10% is a HECK of alot of bandwidth. 1% would be more feasable. But 10% would mean that 1 of 10 people will activly be tapped. And you can bet your buns that the FBI will tap tap tap.
Now, would you say that 10% of the population who carries cell phones are law breakers?
In other words, does the civil BENIFIT of indescriminatly wiretapping match the potential lowering of criminal actions? Will all conversations eventually be public record? Would political views, first amendment rights, and religeous beliefs be genuinly protected? What kind of watermarking or proof will we have that cellular monitoring presented in court is indeed unaltered?
My company has 10 Proliant 6500 servers. All of Compaq's hardware was suppoerted out of the box by RedHad 6 (Even the SmartDrive controller..)
All in all, Compaq with Linux is a good choice if your management won't "buy" into VA or Penguin (Which are better choices, IMHO but doesn't have the brand name YET!)
I havn't had to recompile our Kernel to support ANY of the hardware... but I will when we have a stable setup.
You preach it brother. The brain leech is dead!!! Anyone see starship troopers.. where the bug sucks the brains? That's what TV programming represents to me.
Ofcourse, FOR ME, movies are different. They have a complete story. THey don't drag on every damn Wednesday. They convey a point.. they arn't inturrupted. It's a package deal.
I can't tell you how many copies of CD's I go through. Tapes as well. So, I got a Minidisc, and I copy my CD's to them.
Whenever the minidisc gets chomped, dropped, boiled.. whatever, I not have my original CD to go and copy back out.
This is perfectly legal. I won't switch to DVD until I can get my fair use out of it. And, just like my CD->MD conversion, I expect perfect quality, digital.
Well, 3dfx may release the V3 specs sometime soon. (I expect to see them around Q1). Real specs (Hello nVidia!!)
I think Matrox and ATI are currently ahead of the curve as far as being good to us open sourcers.
I currently have the nVidia TNT, Permedia2, and the VooDoo3. The V3 rocks em all, 2D. I'm waiting for documents from 3dfx so I can start coding (Hello, DRI anybody?) for XFree86 version 4.0.
If I can find the documentation, I'm going to look into the Rage and see if it works on the Alpha.
"a few people on staff in his message." Well, people change.. ya know. People move.. new people come in.. maybe one day you'll have a real big need for *nix people.. you should look into the future. And I did mention that for an intranet, it probably didn't matter. ONly if they decided to go further, then it matter.
What can I say... I'd think that the fact that I started with sarcasm should have tipped you off.
Then again, your an AC.. so bug off.
Pan Moderators Guide -- It's all fun and games till someone starts keeping score!!
I think one only needs the linker (ld) in order to rebuild vmunix.
As far as I know (version 4.0d), the base installation did not offer the c compiler with the base license. You could install it, but the license manager would kick in saying that you don't have a license to use this.
Their compiler was the only own I know of that actually made darn sure you never exceeded the license limit.. (We had 10 developers on a 3 license box.. made for interresting make files to say the least to compensate for "license overflow!!"
Actually, they are already using them. There is a 48.6-GFLOPS Avalon cluster at Los Alamos. Ranked No. 160, the $400,000 cluster consists of Alpha processors.
I believe that NOAH is commisioning a large scale ALPHA-based beowulf cluster as well. Can't remember the name, though (Lobos?)
First of all, if you are interested in Alphas on Linux.. go to AlphaLinux.
There are vendors listed there that can get you set up (look to the right... I recommend Hard Data and DCG myself).
As far as this *deal* forget it! Okay, probably a year ago I would have said yes, but not now. Not for Unix-guru-wannabe. I am having so much fun hacking linux up and especially XFree86 on Alpha. (VooDoo3 is really really fast on alpha!)
You see, my friend, what makes the Alpha so fast, is *smart compiler technology*. A decent compiler like egcs is __NOT__ going to produce really optimized alpha machine code. What to do?
Well, previously we were rolling and unrolling loops like a smoker. Then we were hand tuning. Using asm().
And then Compaq did a stunning thing. They released an optimized math library. They released Compaq Fortran for LINUX. And then they stunned me again. They released their C compiler.. natively for Linux.
Now before you go banging on the cathedral walls.. consider that egcs would require quite a rewrite to really do the "right" thing on Alphas. If I know jack about compilers, I'd try.. but compilers are spooky black magic.. right up there with human cloning for a application/driver hacker. (imagine a compiler, that compiles it's own source code.)
Of course if you're considering Tru64, I assume that you don't have qualms paying for software in the first place. I don't have problems paying for software that doesn't pretend to non-commercial open-standards blah blah. A compiler produces an executable. Done. If I don't like it in the end, *toss*.
Anyhow, this brings me to my final point. If you don't buy the developer tools for this system, you can only use gcc. Which at that point you might as well be using linux.. because I guarantee you that Digital Unix ain't going to make poop difference in performance if you're compiling using egcs/gcc. I don't think the developer tools are going to cost 99 bucks though.
So if you're like me and just love the "beauty" of a well designed and implemented OS such as Tru64, then go for it. If you've got the right hardware and all.. it's perfect.
Otherwise, skip it. Get a nice DS20 from Compaq(or at the least a 533 MHz 164LX. It uses PC100 SDRAM DIMMS.. and PCI slots) Load Linux. And when it comes time to compile.. consider that you might want to use the ccc (compaq c compiler) for intense programs. Gains of 10 to 30 percent speed increases are pretty good.
So you're telling me that suspension with required counciling is NOT bullying? We'd be hearing the same stuff from Katz if that happened, and you know it.
It's certainly more appropriate given the age. If you remember the article, the judge clearly stated that one of the deciding factors was the students disiplanary history. This is certainly within reason.
They think this kid might kill, so...they're going to tell him he's not welcome as part of the school community right now, and that they think he's crazy?
I think the correct way to tell him would be that writting this kind of story is innapropriate for school work.
Sorry, everyone still gets fired for letting the kid shoot up the school. A psychological evaluation or two would go a long way here!
Woa... jail is QUITE a bit different. We're talking about a 13 year old BOY. I'm sure he watches CHUCKY and the BRIDE of CHUCKY - just like the rest of young male-dom.
People that write like this VERY RARELY(literally one out of a million) go into "kill the world, where's my gun" mode. Most likely, they turn into what 99% of other morbid/violent turn into, which is writers, musicians, "goths," whatever. Edgar Allen Poe. He could write the next Cujo.
The fact that he is writing about it is actually a healthy sign... The fact that this was written for the teacher is fairly healthy as well. When people have _real_ fantasies of killing others, they generally might only tell close friends. People who are activly TALKING ABOUT and writing their violence tend to vent using lead, the pencil kind.
Jail is totally inappropriate in this case. Jail is a bullying manuver. We need to cry out about this. Suspension with required counciling is the appropriate action.
If PHP didn't have database dependant functions, and instead had a unified interface to a db.. I'd switch.
However, if I start out on MySQL and later decide to switch to Oracle.. I've got alot more problems than simply changing some SQL!! I've got a whole lot of litle PHP-specific database changes as well.
The SH3 processor is a good example of nice code density. The StrongARM is also a good example. Unfortunatly they trade off a FPU for smaller die space and lower power comsumption.
>I recently had a proposal turned down to make an >Intranet server Linux based instead of NT. The >company did not feel comfortable with an OS that >only a few people on staff new how to handle.
Yeah.. just a few million people know linux/unix.
An intranet server is a capitol expendature. Sure.
But their E-Commerce/extranet site that serves their top 10 customers might be a bit different. Especially when the server craters.
Why are these people interrested in Linux anyhow? *grin*
Slashdot Mirror
I would have to respectfully disagree that XFree doesn't need X.org. Only because the vast majority of developers insist that the X standards be adheered to - including XFree developers. The catch-22 occurs because there has never been a feedback mechanism back into the SI from XFree, so anything that XFree code-forked would have to be re-implemented on new X releases. Not a big deal on the driver side.
What was bad about this situation, is that when people start to talk about innovations that require major changes to the SI, we must develop them using extensions for fear of breaking with the SI.(Some things just can't be done using extensions, though) When people start using extensions then traditional application developers are weary of using them because there's little reason for workstation vendors to support these extensions. Most developers always aim for the square middle if possible.
This all changed because X.org realized that the commercial ISV had virtually disappeared. Almost all the commercial work being done was for in-house development and narrowly focused niche markets. The other 99.9% of X developers were using linux and *bsd!!!
I think some innovations have been (until fairly recently) stiffled because of X.org's unwillingness to accept feedback. Features that are just now being implemented or discussed that could have happened 2-4 years ago. (Insert laundry list here)
Another factor is that most X developers really thought X was dead. Heck, even Jim Gettys told me at the last ALS that he was really supprised that X was still around (and pleased that it is!). Knowing how "well documented" the SI is (remember that X is larger than the Linux Kernel?) there was quite a loss of real expertise on X internals.
What you see here is very exciting. You see the ability of XFree to affect the SI. You see a standards organization accepting the true standard. You see a resurgence of expertise in developer resources on the XFree team. You see organizations supporting *very* good things like Precision Insight, SGI, Mesa, and MetroLink.
And you ain't seen nothing yet.
This isn't your mama's X server!!
Roger
Yeah, why don't you guys pull up a copy of amiga basic.
Guess who wrote it?
Pan
*raises hand*
Come on.... you're asking this on SLASHDOT?
pan
Of course Abrash used to work at id. I used to talk mabrash@idsoftware.com with him. Wanna say 1995?
Pan
See the thread on Glide being open-sourced. If we had some specs, maybe there's more than meets the eye here.
But, essentially, an implementation is available.
Pan
Well, before there was no V3 of Glide. Before, Glide only ran on x86 hardware.
Everything has changed. The license seems to be an attempt at being compatable with the XFree86 license.
Pan
Well, I guess in that case, instead of asking technical questions.. they should have real techies asking questions. I'll agree with you 100%.
;-)
And yeah, I admit it, I have mastered PHB talk. I had to...
Pan
Okay, as someone who interviews alot of people in a year.. I HAVE to answer this.
First off.. PEOPLE LIE. They say they've managed project X which consisted of buzzword buzzword buzzword. For instance, "I wrote the classes which interfaces an Oracle database into the java application. I used inheritance and operator overloading.. blah blah"
5 minutes later, I'll ask him.. "What is a byte?" Couldn't answer the damn question!
Now, I don't go asking API questions, but I make sure they know types, arrays, pointers, etc.. But I would ask generic questions ABOUT an API. (What does the Xt lib do in X windows?)
The point is that there are too many potted plants masquarading as PROGRAMERS. They read Dr. Dobbs, and PC Week, and can spit buzzwords at you all day. But when you get down to specifics, the thin vail crumbles.
I asked a DBA position candidate (first question, honest) how to insert a row. He actually added a "where" clause. BWAHAHAHA!
So, there is a minumum technical interview required. Some places would require a very deep interview for their projects. (Think "router design and programing" at Cisco!)
I don't think it's necessarily about doing a "better job" - but I do think it clues the interviewer into if the candidate will be able to operate with a core competancy to DO the job.
The other half of the equation is motivation. People that are _not_ motivated, but have the skills are also potted plants.
Pan - from the hellfire known as "Saturday Work"
As a former employee of Tandy, I can say that WITHOUT A DOUBT, this will fail.
Tandy has a habit of blowing deals left and right. IBM sold their machines in RS, now IBM refuses to even let Tandy service those machines. Compaq has had much lower sales than expected in RS.
The incredible universe (iu), McDuffs (md), Computer City (cc)... all BLOWN deals.. one every 3 years.
RS market share is dwindling. MS just wasted 100M.. ohh well!
Pan
I've seen upteen number of people on game shows and talk shows make fun of y2k. Or they outright said (with the camera zoomed in) I'm not worried about y2k!
Of course they're trying to make you feel safe.. maybe you shouldn't be so gullable.
I say, why not take a bit of precaution. The red cross is right to tell people to "prepare for bad weather."
In the end, all you have is faith. Personally, I'm betting on some problems.
I know too many dumb programmers. How many do you know?
Pan
"So all wiretapping is bad because some wiretapping can be abused?"
No, but under new laws, the FBI will use their new power to constantly scan for illegal activity.
Currently, new cellular protocols are requiring that the FBI be allocated 10% of the total infrastructure for wiretapping. Also, the FBI will be able to "listen" in on active conversations.. they will also be able to use inactive cell phones as microphones.
Now, 10% is a HECK of alot of bandwidth. 1% would be more feasable. But 10% would mean that 1 of 10 people will activly be tapped. And you can bet your buns that the FBI will tap tap tap.
Now, would you say that 10% of the population who carries cell phones are law breakers?
In other words, does the civil BENIFIT of indescriminatly wiretapping match the potential lowering of criminal actions? Will all conversations eventually be public record? Would political views, first amendment rights, and religeous beliefs be genuinly protected? What kind of watermarking or proof will we have that cellular monitoring presented in court is indeed unaltered?
Pan
My company has 10 Proliant 6500 servers. All of Compaq's hardware was suppoerted out of the box by RedHad 6 (Even the SmartDrive controller..)
All in all, Compaq with Linux is a good choice if your management won't "buy" into VA or Penguin (Which are better choices, IMHO but doesn't have the brand name YET!)
I havn't had to recompile our Kernel to support ANY of the hardware... but I will when we have a stable setup.
Pan
You preach it brother. The brain leech is dead!!! Anyone see starship troopers.. where the bug sucks the brains? That's what TV programming represents to me.
Ofcourse, FOR ME, movies are different. They have a complete story. THey don't drag on every damn Wednesday. They convey a point.. they arn't inturrupted. It's a package deal.
IANAL, but television programming is annoying.
Pan
I can't tell you how many copies of CD's I go through. Tapes as well. So, I got a Minidisc, and I copy my CD's to them.
Whenever the minidisc gets chomped, dropped, boiled.. whatever, I not have my original CD to go and copy back out.
This is perfectly legal. I won't switch to DVD until I can get my fair use out of it. And, just like my CD->MD conversion, I expect perfect quality, digital.
Pan
Well, 3dfx may release the V3 specs sometime soon. (I expect to see them around Q1). Real specs (Hello nVidia!!)
I think Matrox and ATI are currently ahead of the curve as far as being good to us open sourcers.
I currently have the nVidia TNT, Permedia2, and the VooDoo3. The V3 rocks em all, 2D. I'm waiting for documents from 3dfx so I can start coding (Hello, DRI anybody?) for XFree86 version 4.0.
If I can find the documentation, I'm going to look into the Rage and see if it works on the Alpha.
Pan
"a few people on staff in his message."
Well, people change.. ya know. People move.. new people come in.. maybe one day you'll have a real big need for *nix people.. you should look into the future. And I did mention that for an intranet, it probably didn't matter. ONly if they decided to go further, then it matter.
What can I say... I'd think that the fact that I started with sarcasm should have tipped you off.
Then again, your an AC.. so bug off.
Pan
Moderators Guide -- It's all fun and games till someone starts keeping score!!
I think one only needs the linker (ld) in order to rebuild vmunix.
As far as I know (version 4.0d), the base installation did not offer the c compiler with the base license. You could install it, but the license manager would kick in saying that you don't have a license to use this.
Their compiler was the only own I know of that actually made darn sure you never exceeded the license limit.. (We had 10 developers on a 3 license box.. made for interresting make files to say the least to compensate for "license overflow!!"
Pan
Actually, they are already using them. There is a 48.6-GFLOPS Avalon cluster at Los Alamos. Ranked No. 160, the $400,000 cluster consists of Alpha processors.
I believe that NOAH is commisioning a large scale ALPHA-based beowulf cluster as well. Can't remember the name, though (Lobos?)
Pan
First of all, if you are interested in Alphas on Linux.. go to AlphaLinux.
There are vendors listed there that can get you set up (look to the right... I recommend Hard Data and DCG myself).
As far as this *deal* forget it! Okay, probably a year ago I would have said yes, but not now. Not for Unix-guru-wannabe. I am having so much fun hacking linux up and especially XFree86 on Alpha. (VooDoo3 is really really fast on alpha!)
You see, my friend, what makes the Alpha so fast, is *smart compiler technology*. A decent compiler like egcs is __NOT__ going to produce really optimized alpha machine code. What to do?
Well, previously we were rolling and unrolling loops like a smoker. Then we were hand tuning. Using asm().
And then Compaq did a stunning thing. They released an optimized math library. They released Compaq Fortran for LINUX. And then they stunned me again. They released their C compiler.. natively for Linux.
Now before you go banging on the cathedral walls.. consider that egcs would require quite a rewrite to really do the "right" thing on Alphas. If I know jack about compilers, I'd try.. but compilers are spooky black magic.. right up there with human cloning for a application/driver hacker. (imagine a compiler, that compiles it's own source code.)
Of course if you're considering Tru64, I assume that you don't have qualms paying for software in the first place. I don't have problems paying for software that doesn't pretend to non-commercial open-standards blah blah. A compiler produces an executable. Done. If I don't like it in the end, *toss*.
Anyhow, this brings me to my final point. If you don't buy the developer tools for this system, you can only use gcc. Which at that point you might as well be using linux.. because I guarantee you that Digital Unix ain't going to make poop difference in performance if you're compiling using egcs/gcc. I don't think the developer tools are going to cost 99 bucks though.
So if you're like me and just love the "beauty" of a well designed and implemented OS such as Tru64, then go for it. If you've got the right hardware and all.. it's perfect.
Otherwise, skip it. Get a nice DS20 from Compaq(or at the least a 533 MHz 164LX. It uses PC100 SDRAM DIMMS.. and PCI slots) Load Linux. And when it comes time to compile.. consider that you might want to use the ccc (compaq c compiler) for intense programs. Gains of 10 to 30 percent speed increases are pretty good.
Roger
So you're telling me that suspension with required counciling is NOT bullying? We'd be hearing the same stuff from Katz if that happened, and you know it.
It's certainly more appropriate given the age. If you remember the article, the judge clearly stated that one of the deciding factors was the students disiplanary history. This is certainly within reason.
They think this kid might kill, so...they're going to tell him he's not welcome as part of the school community right now, and that they think he's crazy?
I think the correct way to tell him would be that writting this kind of story is innapropriate for school work.
Sorry, everyone still gets fired for letting the kid shoot up the school.
A psychological evaluation or two would go a long way here!
Pan
Woa... jail is QUITE a bit different. We're talking about a 13 year old BOY. I'm sure he watches CHUCKY and the BRIDE of CHUCKY - just like the rest of young male-dom.
People that write like this VERY RARELY(literally one out of a million) go into "kill the world, where's my gun" mode. Most likely, they turn into what 99% of other morbid/violent turn into, which is writers, musicians, "goths," whatever. Edgar Allen Poe. He could write the next Cujo.
The fact that he is writing about it is actually a healthy sign... The fact that this was written for the teacher is fairly healthy as well. When people have _real_ fantasies of killing others, they generally might only tell close friends. People who are activly TALKING ABOUT and writing their violence tend to vent using lead, the pencil kind.
Jail is totally inappropriate in this case. Jail is a bullying manuver. We need to cry out about this. Suspension with required counciling is the appropriate action.
Pan
If PHP didn't have database dependant functions, and instead had a unified interface to a db.. I'd switch.
However, if I start out on MySQL and later decide to switch to Oracle.. I've got alot more problems than simply changing some SQL!! I've got a whole lot of litle PHP-specific database changes as well.
pan
The SH3 processor is a good example of nice code density. The StrongARM is also a good example. Unfortunatly they trade off a FPU for smaller die space and lower power comsumption.
Pan
>I recently had a proposal turned down to make an
>Intranet server Linux based instead of NT. The
>company did not feel comfortable with an OS that
>only a few people on staff new how to handle.
Yeah.. just a few million people know linux/unix.
An intranet server is a capitol expendature. Sure.
But their E-Commerce/extranet site that serves their top 10 customers might be a bit different. Especially when the server craters.
Why are these people interrested in Linux anyhow? *grin*
Pan.
Yeah, it's worth a try. I think Yamaha employes are ex-KGB agents. They think you're insane to use Linux/*BSD.
I suggest that if you want to talk to Yamaha about their YMF724F/YMF744/YMF754 3D audio chips, you should write to:
ystaudio@yamaha.com
Let them know how much cooler SB and Aureal are. How they're behind in the game. They should jump or be trampled.
Pan