Let me get this straight, according to M$'s argument, if I see someone acting suspiciously around a petrochemical plant, I should tell no one. Lest they get an incling of how to perpetrate a terrorist attack in light of my information.
"You make it seem like all cops do is abuse their power"
Reality check here folks. I've dealt with cops several times, and in each and every time, the officers in question routinely abused their power. Everything from totally ignoring road laws on the way to the station to slapping suspects around, just to enforce the 'we're in control so you'd better try and get on our good side' tactic.
That is part of the power, they are the ones managing it, and so they have nothing to fear from it. They can, and do, do anything they want.
Here in Australia, we use eight digit numbers (with a non-compulsory two digit area code) for standard land lines. You can call pretty much anywhere in your home state by dialing only eight digits. Cellular phones have six digit numbers following four digit area codes, which must be dialed, thus creating ten digit numbers.
In interesting alternative news, did you know that Telstra (Australian telecomunications monopolist) has, for at least the last thirty years, laid claim to the copyright on visually reproducing a phone number.
That's right, when you give a cheque to Yellow Pages, in Australia, they then pass on 80% of that to Telstra for the priveledge of printing Telstra's intellectual property.
The day of reckoning has arrived. "But I got high" has been played on the radio for about two months, here in Australia. The radio stations all announced that it wouldn't be available in the shops until the end of September, so anyone who wanted it should download it. It was made available from several radio station websites.
The end of September has come and gone and "But I got high" has been released through retail outlets. According to the arguments of the recording industry, sales should have been way down because of the heavy downloads.
"But I got high" had it's debut on the Australian singles chart at no 2.
I was going to sue your ass for stealing money from the recording industry, but I got high
Let me say that I'll have no obligation to observe these laws. Send your encryption products to me for resale. Don't let the rest of the world suffer because you're going to let your government remove your security. There will still be plenty of markets not touched by this legislation.
I don't agree with this at all, and I totally abhore the continual attacks on our freedom of the last week, but when I stop to think about it, I might feel a bit better if I knew someone else had to read my mail too.
If someone else had to keep deleting truckloads of shit a day, and they were spying on me, I could almost crack a smile about it. In fact, can I volunteer for an email wiretap?
Open the standard, show us how to roll a Hailstorm server, tell us how to set up alternative Hailstorm compatible networks, come up with a process for joining the official Hailstorm network, show us how we control where our information goes.
I just love that name, it's so warm and fuzzy, isn't it? Makes you want to work in the same market as M$, doesn't it.
</SARCASTIC> (Oops, I was sure I closed that ages ago)
Distributed was a great buzzword for a while. Peer networks were wonderful when we were getting music for free (like all this beer everyone keeps promising). Stickin' it to the man is the thing at the moment, but come an opportunity to actually do something useful, and no one "gets it" all of a sudden.
I have a lot of respect and admiration for the people of America. I am feeling this event just as much as anyone else not directly involved. (Most of the US and most of the rest of the world) I do not think it is anything like the time to go into my theories on "the need for states at all".
We shouldn't think of this as a "US" thing or a "westerners"||"Christians"||etc thing. This is a humanity thing. Each and every person was toched by that event and though it's getting a tired point, the world will never be the same again.
My suggestion: Crises talks held at UN (or somewhere better). Nations are told "people are dying. It will stop now. Stop your sniveling, stop your bickering, smarten yourselves up and fix this mess, Now!". Cease fire must be declared everywhere. Once we've come up with an initial direction to head out from, we must then examine this event along with all others for a proper perspective on the events that lead to our near downfall.
"Hello... Foriegn Leader? Hi, this is GWB calling. I was wondering if you would like to impliment all of our suggested internet security measures as detailed in the email my boys sent you last week? Oh, you were unsure about which bit? Look, let me take this opportunity to assure you that if you find anything whatsoever in these suggestions to be iffy, then we will have no hesitation in turning your county into a glowing, smoking crater. What's that? 110 percent. That's great (thumbs up to advisors sitting quietly across desk)- knew we could count on you. Bye"
The world is crying out over the outrage suffered in NY and DC, demanding blood, etc. One has to recognise that since you cannot ignore the terrorist actions of the US through out the world, they must be the good terrorists while Osama Bin Laden is now a bad terrorist. (Remember, the CIA taught him everything he knows - he must have been a good terroristin that period?)
Look, anyone who's going to the trouble of killing me, will have no problem going through whatever they have to go through to organise their deeds.
Jo Schmo, who likes the idea of liberty, just doesn't quite understand all the heated debate, will not go out of his way to get an anonamous message through to his government, and will not want to have to use new terrorist style technology, just to have a private discussion with his lawyer.
While removing internet privacy will prevent people from using the internet privately, it will do nothing to stop those who truely feel the need to keep their activities private, it will only further criminalise their activities (which were already criminal). The only luser here is Joe Schmo.
I think I'm going to find this argument easier if I drop into your mindset to respond directly and then pan out to show you my thinking. You see, christian dogma creates these arguments within itself so as to completely preclude rational discussion with a broader perspective.
>> Yes, God is sovereign and therefore deserves our full being. Yes God is a sovereign being, but so are you. God does not drive your body, God does not protect your path from evil. (Don't argue, did any passenger jets crash into civilian workplaces killing thousands, this week?) From all descriptions of God, it seems that God might in fact be an average member of a higher dimension. The creative powers he displayed in creating this universe are beyond comparison within this universe and have never been repeated within this universe. Whether he shares his domain with anyone else or not is irrelevant, seeing as how he created this universe, It seems pretty likely that he is not from it. That being said I personally believe that God is a being either unaware of our conscience existance, or simply too complex an entity to be capable of our limited conscious thought.- sort of like the way I create computer programs. I create the program that creates a desired result. I use the processing power of the computer to acheive that result. During the design time and then in the following development period, I deal with the sub bits of the program in a non tangible area called cyber space. Since I created this particular instance of cyber space, I am it's God being, I do not think about personalities within this universe, I concentrate on it's producing the right output into our shared universe.
>> The church is just the body of believers.
Exactly! The church is not God, yet it claims to be. God would not want people to spend their entire lives working to give half of it (sorry if you don't, but I do) to a non representative (democratic (?) but not representative of anyone I've met, here in Australia) government and the another 10% to an organisation who spend it on amongst others things:
pushing legislation to keep a scientifically recognised physical gender condition (homsexuality) out of lawful status.
Move suspected sexual deviants within it's network, rather than confront the abuse they are left free to perpetuate in the christian community.
Hide most of the stored knowledge of mankind in vaults in a city free from outside government intervention.
Lobbying for represive laws around the world to slant political directions in their favour.
Sells and bases it's faith on a book which clearly puts women in as second class citizens, and labels them 'unclean' for one quarter of their post adolescent-pre menopausal lives (You read Exodus all the way through, didn't you?)
need I go on?
I also find it impossible to imagine these organisations could also be spreading the pure word of God.
From the outside: the church is a corrupt organisation preying on people's weakness and interfearing way too much in our 'heathen' lives.
>> I don't want to push God on anyone who doesn't want Him...... My job is only to..... do what Jesus commanded -- that is love my neighbor, forgive others, do justice, and of course preach the Gospel. 1) Reconcile "dont want to push yadda yadda yadda" with "My job is......of course preach the gospel"? Are you aware of these discrepancies in your value system? Are you crying out for help because you're being forced to something you "don't want to"? 2) Jesus commanded "Love thy neighbor as you would yourself." this put's it right into our own hands. Whatever each person feels is a reasonable amount of love for themselves should be taken as the measure to hand about as well. Seems like a fair equation, this Jesus guy wasn't dumb, you know. 3) To err is human, to forgive, Divine. We have the right to see our own shortcomings reflected in other people and to try and acheive peacefull understanding. God has the right to forgive. 3) Do Justice is an idiotic paraphrasing of Superman's holy message, do not confuse him with God. 4) That's your preist talking. Jesus may have told his disciples to go out and preach (did he, I can't remember?), but they were there. They wouldn't be breaking that old 'false witness' commandment.
Your job is to be the best human you can, and to encourage everyone else to do the same. For if there were a conscious God being, I'm sure he would want for all of his creation to be the best possible thing it could be. That means helping people to find the God within themselves without taking any of their soveriegnty away from them. Oppressed people rise up against their oppressors you know.
>> I fully see why people such as yourself find it hard to believe in the message. It *does* sound ridiculous if you look at it from a worldly perspective. I do not know how to answer that. It's like it's coming from a whole different language to me. The only thing I can think of is my amazement that a group of people who have no problem beleiving the stories about Jesus, ie: virgin birth, walking on water, loaves/fishes, wine/blood(every f*cking week since, in some cases), healing leppers, damning trees, raising Lazarus, dying and getting up again three days later, etc, completely reject out of hand, spirituality, esp, numerology (based on actual observed patterns over millenia), astrology (likewise), tarot reading, divination of any type, natural healing, etc.
Everything about God is totally opposite of what people expect. The last shall be first; the first last. He reveals Himself to the oppressed, not the powerful. No, expectation of justice is not a christian thing. Leaving it up to God, however, ensures that no man will see it is done. Where are all these oppressed people saying "Well, when the Lord showed up, you know, you kind of forgot your diseases, dead family, decimated homeland, and all that and just layed about drinking in his 'vibe'". Oh, and why the hell were they hanging out with the lord rather than trying to snatch back some scrap of security for themselves and their families?
Even the Jews expected a Messiah to come who would be politically powerful. They had no idea, even though it was prophesied, that He had to come from a normal family, suffer, and die. I'm sorry, which Jews? If the prophecies spoke of God coming to the world as a humble poor person, then what idiot would be looking in the society papers for announcements of his birth. Don't fall for that false witness thing, dude.
>> Everything about the human body and how and why we're here screams we have a Creator.Absolutely true. (although creator should not have had the cap "C") We have clearly evolved from the primate family of species on this planet. So something, someone, or some force caused us to split and begin taking on our own unique characteristics. That thing, indeed was our creator. Unfortunately, if God is 'above' conscious though, then that means the only deliberate action to create us could have been made by another superior (at the time) species. You know we are on the verge of creating some kind of consciousness in machines that are in fact better equipped for some aspects of this universe than us.
Humans in general have a longing to know God (although some people have managed to quench that hole through their own desires). Humans have a longing for water. Someone told them it was actually a longing for coke. Look at how many people truly believe that (i.e.: get most of their liquid refreshment from coke) despite consciously knowing it's wrong. Now, who told you to generalise and say humans have a longing for God? And how do I know that guy isn't to the church what coca cola marketing is to coca cola?
Well, the Bible is probably the most consistent book ever written Now you're being infantile. This book has changed so much from generation to generation, language to language, spin artist to spin artist that if there are any books that have lasted so long, this is by far the least consistant. When I was 12 we got to read Scrooge for English literature studies. I went with my mum to pick up the textbooks at the start of the year and was flipping through them on the way home. I read the first paragraph of Scrooge, and it was exactly as I remembered it from looking at it many years earlier. I was amazed, here was this book, clearly a brand new edition, which still had the same wording as the much older versions I'd seen. I mentioned it to my mum and she said that was natural, why would it change? You see, the only book I had read a couple of different editions of, was the Bible, and until that day, I just presumed that a different edition meant a completely different wording in any book. It wasn't until later that I realised the importance of each and every little word in an account.
I won't say it has NO contradictions, because there are a few minor ones, but they can generally
be explained by the memorization practices of the Jews.If you can say there are definately bits that are wrong, then you'll need to identify all of those bits, and explain how they came to be there without the rest of the content being corrupted, otherwise the most prudent move would tbe to scrap all data that can't be verified from this database as it may be corrupting any factual data.
>>...about the character of God, the nature of Man, our need to be reconciled to God, and all that, is 100% consistent from Genesis to Revelation. I'm reading the Bible straight through for the first time this year -- I'm almost done and it has only bolstered my confidence in its consistency.
The remainder of your post degraded into speculation, and you, claiming to be a man of logic. I know you will not give anything I say fair speculation for that would mean putting aside your faith in God. All I can say is that if people put half the energy you put into defending you religious choices into taking action to see that no one on this planet is in fear or need, then we wouldn't need a heaven because we'd already be there (thanx to the great prophet Homer for that one.).
Re:Time for some highly unpopular opinion...
on
Handling the Loads
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· Score: 1
No, America, and her allies have divided the world's population into 2. There are the people who are born with the right to a secure roof over their heads, fair employment, not having to sleep in their shit, etc. And then there's the other people.
Well, the other people are sick of having to wonder if they'll still be alive tonite, EVERY MORNING, and want to share some of the life style about.
There's no pathalogical hate of America or the west, there is simply a normal human tendancy to fight tyrany.
I may be a little confused. Is one of the church's key teachings not that you must give your heart, mind , desire, 10% of your income, etc to the Lord?
Would that not constitute giving up your sovereignty to God through the church?
Can you comprehend the story of children brought up devout christians, who reached adolescence, started to test their environments, had the waggling finger of doom pointed at them from the pulpit, thought "shit, I better smarten up and fly straight until this threat goes away", and then actually spend time proving one way or the other if it is a real threat?
Many of the 'heathens' you fail to consider the position of actually came from this background. You find many people intollerant of you because of your closed mindedness to the motivations of non church going folk.
I personally find it insulting that when this time is looked back on from some distant future we will each be tarred with the character of the average 21st century person. All this intollerance and closed mindedness suggests that my lifetime wont be credited with including the day the world gave up war/struggle/oppression forever.
Don't get too offended by me, I am just an idiot. Just like every other idiot trying to keep it together out there and neither God nor the government have made any decrees declaring my word to be gospel.
No, you're not addicted. Your idea of getting some sleep is getting off the couch, turning on the computer, dial the net, log on, surf to slashdot, read the latest story, and make a contribution. Pleasant dreams....
Saw the interview on MSNBC. It was severely chopped up at key points. Still no description of the hijackers from any passengers (except that one scary one on de.indymedia.org which has since dissapeared.)
The guy was a hero, but from what I can tell of the descriptions of the final fight, and other calls from that plane, they died without making a difference.
Jeremy Glick was a real hero, he stood up and said "No", where many others would have hid and thought irrationally about their own safety. Don't let what comes out in the future change anyone's perception of that.
>> God has given us free will. Hard to accept, but true. Not too hard to accept when you realise 'wow, when I try to do anything, nothing stops me' and 'gee, my actions seem to always cause reactions. Mayby I should consider my every action.". That's when you realise that any control you have experienced before was imposed by the will of another human. The next step is taking responsibility for your own thoughts and actions - we'll welcome you into the world of the conscious when you do, you know.
>> Now you're saying "then why doesn't he just show himself!" Well, to some, He does...
1) Call me paranoid, but I noticed that the only refernce to God with no capital was in you quoting (me?) Do you perhaps feel that since you give your will to God, you are somehow worthy of better understanding man's relationship with a deity? 2) You have hit the nail on the head, though. If you don't believe what the church says, then quite often you wouldn't comprehand God as a figure who can reveal himself. This question, I have found perculiar to young christians trying to come to terms with handing over their will.
>> In a similar way, I really believe that God will use this to draw many, many people to Himself. He works in all things for good for those that love Him. What Satan has meant for evil, God has meant for good. (Bare with me, this may draw out) I do not go to church. When I ask churchgoing people about their experiences, they clam up. I do not know what you church people talk about amongst yourselves. I do know that the American govt. has been pushing the US=God's_people and Satan's_People>>Middle_East ideas for years now. Particularly the Bush Family (Anyone see that speach Bush Snr made to the Oil companies the other day? Praising his son, calling for internet crackdowns, and peddling his 'Hussain is Satan' shit asgain?) You may be right about God drawing his people to him and then making a giant strike against Satan. (In the biblical/figuarative sense.) It sounds more plausable than anything else you've said in your last 24 comments. (I was going to remove this bit because it sounded a bit like an attack. It's not (cough*any more*cough), and I apologise for trying to one up myself on you here. I left it there though. There is an irony that, neively, your most hardcore christian predictions may prove hideously true.)(Of course, in the interests of fair play, here's my last 24 comments.)
To reverse this situation and look from the eyes of the perpetrators in the moment they suffered their attack. If they thought "Kill *them*, their *entire families*, their *entire extended families*, etc, etc", you'd already be dead. If they are discussing shit like yours in Washington, then you're already dead. Good luck.
Slashdot Mirror
Let me get this straight, according to M$'s argument, if I see someone acting suspiciously around a petrochemical plant, I should tell no one. Lest they get an incling of how to perpetrate a terrorist attack in light of my information.
Unlike Germany, our country did not try to conquer the world and start the largest war in human history
Is this statement still correct?
"You make it seem like all cops do is abuse their power"
Reality check here folks. I've dealt with cops several times, and in each and every time, the officers in question routinely abused their power. Everything from totally ignoring road laws on the way to the station to slapping suspects around, just to enforce the 'we're in control so you'd better try and get on our good side' tactic.
That is part of the power, they are the ones managing it, and so they have nothing to fear from it. They can, and do, do anything they want.
Here in Australia, we use eight digit numbers (with a non-compulsory two digit area code) for standard land lines. You can call pretty much anywhere in your home state by dialing only eight digits. Cellular phones have six digit numbers following four digit area codes, which must be dialed, thus creating ten digit numbers.
In interesting alternative news, did you know that Telstra (Australian telecomunications monopolist) has, for at least the last thirty years, laid claim to the copyright on visually reproducing a phone number.
That's right, when you give a cheque to Yellow Pages, in Australia, they then pass on 80% of that to Telstra for the priveledge of printing Telstra's intellectual property.
Is this pointless enough to get modded up?
Slightly on topic...
The day of reckoning has arrived.
"But I got high" has been played on the radio for about two months, here in Australia. The radio stations all announced that it wouldn't be available in the shops until the end of September, so anyone who wanted it should download it. It was made available from several radio station websites.
The end of September has come and gone and "But I got high" has been released through retail outlets. According to the arguments of the recording industry, sales should have been way down because of the heavy downloads.
"But I got high" had it's debut on the Australian singles chart at no 2.
I was going to sue your ass for stealing money from the recording industry, but I got high
Why don't we bomb these villages with food and medical supplies and see how willing they are to fight us then?
Let me say that I'll have no obligation to observe these laws. Send your encryption products to me for resale. Don't let the rest of the world suffer because you're going to let your government remove your security. There will still be plenty of markets not touched by this legislation.
>> Microsoft and/or its suppliers, Xxx Xxxxxxxxx Xxx, Redmond, Washington 98052-63
Could people stop quoting the address? I feel like I'm being brainwashed!
So, what you're saying is that we may be stuck with not quite 3G technology for the rest of my life. That actually isn't natural.
I don't agree with this at all, and I totally abhore the continual attacks on our freedom of the last week, but when I stop to think about it, I might feel a bit better if I knew someone else had to read my mail too.
If someone else had to keep deleting truckloads of shit a day, and they were spying on me, I could almost crack a smile about it. In fact, can I volunteer for an email wiretap?
Open the standard, show us how to roll a Hailstorm server, tell us how to set up alternative Hailstorm compatible networks, come up with a process for joining the official Hailstorm network, show us how we control where our information goes.
I just love that name, it's so warm and fuzzy, isn't it? Makes you want to work in the same market as M$, doesn't it.
</SARCASTIC> (Oops, I was sure I closed that ages ago)
Distributed was a great buzzword for a while. Peer networks were wonderful when we were getting music for free (like all this beer everyone keeps promising). Stickin' it to the man is the thing at the moment, but come an opportunity to actually do something useful, and no one "gets it" all of a sudden.
I have a lot of respect and admiration for the people of America. I am feeling this event just as much as anyone else not directly involved. (Most of the US and most of the rest of the world)
I do not think it is anything like the time to go into my theories on "the need for states at all".
We shouldn't think of this as a "US" thing or a "westerners"||"Christians"||etc thing. This is a humanity thing. Each and every person was toched by that event and though it's getting a tired point, the world will never be the same again.
My suggestion: Crises talks held at UN (or somewhere better). Nations are told "people are dying. It will stop now. Stop your sniveling, stop your bickering, smarten yourselves up and fix this mess, Now!". Cease fire must be declared everywhere. Once we've come up with an initial direction to head out from, we must then examine this event along with all others for a proper perspective on the events that lead to our near downfall.
"Hello... Foriegn Leader? Hi, this is GWB calling. I was wondering if you would like to impliment all of our suggested internet security measures as detailed in the email my boys sent you last week? Oh, you were unsure about which bit? Look, let me take this opportunity to assure you that if you find anything whatsoever in these suggestions to be iffy, then we will have no hesitation in turning your county into a glowing, smoking crater. What's that? 110 percent. That's great (thumbs up to advisors sitting quietly across desk)- knew we could count on you. Bye"
The world is crying out over the outrage suffered in NY and DC, demanding blood, etc. One has to recognise that since you cannot ignore the terrorist actions of the US through out the world, they must be the good terrorists while Osama Bin Laden is now a bad terrorist. (Remember, the CIA taught him everything he knows - he must have been a good terroristin that period?)
Look, anyone who's going to the trouble of killing me, will have no problem going through whatever they have to go through to organise their deeds.
Jo Schmo, who likes the idea of liberty, just doesn't quite understand all the heated debate, will not go out of his way to get an anonamous message through to his government, and will not want to have to use new terrorist style technology, just to have a private discussion with his lawyer.
While removing internet privacy will prevent people from using the internet privately, it will do nothing to stop those who truely feel the need to keep their activities private, it will only further criminalise their activities (which were already criminal). The only luser here is Joe Schmo.
>> Yes, God is sovereign and therefore deserves our full being.
Yes God is a sovereign being, but so are you. God does not drive your body, God does not protect your path from evil. (Don't argue, did any passenger jets crash into civilian workplaces killing thousands, this week?)
From all descriptions of God, it seems that God might in fact be an average member of a higher dimension. The creative powers he displayed in creating this universe are beyond comparison within this universe and have never been repeated within this universe. Whether he shares his domain with anyone else or not is irrelevant, seeing as how he created this universe, It seems pretty likely that he is not from it. That being said I personally believe that God is a being either unaware of our conscience existance, or simply too complex an entity to be capable of our limited conscious thought.- sort of like the way I create computer programs. I create the program that creates a desired result. I use the processing power of the computer to acheive that result. During the design time and then in the following development period, I deal with the sub bits of the program in a non tangible area called cyber space. Since I created this particular instance of cyber space, I am it's God being, I do not think about personalities within this universe, I concentrate on it's producing the right output into our shared universe.
>> The church is just the body of believers.
Exactly! The church is not God, yet it claims to be. God would not want people to spend their entire lives working to give half of it (sorry if you don't, but I do) to a non representative (democratic (?) but not representative of anyone I've met, here in Australia) government and the another 10% to an organisation who spend it on amongst others things:
pushing legislation to keep a scientifically recognised physical gender condition (homsexuality) out of lawful status.
Move suspected sexual deviants within it's network, rather than confront the abuse they are left free to perpetuate in the christian community.
Hide most of the stored knowledge of mankind in vaults in a city free from outside government intervention.
Lobbying for represive laws around the world to slant political directions in their favour.
Sells and bases it's faith on a book which clearly puts women in as second class citizens, and labels them 'unclean' for one quarter of their post adolescent-pre menopausal lives (You read Exodus all the way through, didn't you?)
need I go on?
..... My job is only to ..... do what Jesus commanded -- that is love my neighbor, forgive others, do justice, and of course preach the Gospel.
...about the character of God, the nature of Man, our need to be reconciled to God, and all that, is 100% consistent from Genesis to Revelation. I'm reading the Bible straight through for the first time this year -- I'm almost done and it has only bolstered my confidence in its consistency.
I also find it impossible to imagine these organisations could also be spreading the pure word of God.
From the outside: the church is a corrupt organisation preying on people's weakness and interfearing way too much in our 'heathen' lives.
>> I don't want to push God on anyone who doesn't want Him.
1) Reconcile "dont want to push yadda yadda yadda" with "My job is......of course preach the gospel"? Are you aware of these discrepancies in your value system? Are you crying out for help because you're being forced to something you "don't want to"?
2) Jesus commanded "Love thy neighbor as you would yourself." this put's it right into our own hands. Whatever each person feels is a reasonable amount of love for themselves should be taken as the measure to hand about as well. Seems like a fair equation, this Jesus guy wasn't dumb, you know.
3) To err is human, to forgive, Divine. We have the right to see our own shortcomings reflected in other people and to try and acheive peacefull understanding. God has the right to forgive.
3) Do Justice is an idiotic paraphrasing of Superman's holy message, do not confuse him with God.
4) That's your preist talking. Jesus may have told his disciples to go out and preach (did he, I can't remember?), but they were there. They wouldn't be breaking that old 'false witness' commandment.
Your job is to be the best human you can, and to encourage everyone else to do the same. For if there were a conscious God being, I'm sure he would want for all of his creation to be the best possible thing it could be. That means helping people to find the God within themselves without taking any of their soveriegnty away from them. Oppressed people rise up against their oppressors you know.
>> I fully see why people such as yourself find it hard to believe in the message. It *does* sound ridiculous if you look at it from a worldly perspective.
I do not know how to answer that. It's like it's coming from a whole different language to me. The only thing I can think of is my amazement that a group of people who have no problem beleiving the stories about Jesus, ie: virgin birth, walking on water, loaves/fishes, wine/blood(every f*cking week since, in some cases), healing leppers, damning trees, raising Lazarus, dying and getting up again three days later, etc, completely reject out of hand, spirituality, esp, numerology (based on actual observed patterns over millenia), astrology (likewise), tarot reading, divination of any type, natural healing, etc.
Everything about God is totally opposite of what people expect. The last shall be first; the first last. He reveals Himself to the oppressed, not the powerful.
No, expectation of justice is not a christian thing. Leaving it up to God, however, ensures that no man will see it is done. Where are all these oppressed people saying "Well, when the Lord showed up, you know, you kind of forgot your diseases, dead family, decimated homeland, and all that and just layed about drinking in his 'vibe'". Oh, and why the hell were they hanging out with the lord rather than trying to snatch back some scrap of security for themselves and their families?
Even the Jews expected a Messiah to come who would be politically powerful. They had no idea, even though it was prophesied, that He had to come from a normal family, suffer, and die.
I'm sorry, which Jews? If the prophecies spoke of God coming to the world as a humble poor person, then what idiot would be looking in the society papers for announcements of his birth. Don't fall for that false witness thing, dude.
>> Everything about the human body and how and why we're here screams we have a Creator.Absolutely true. (although creator should not have had the cap "C") We have clearly evolved from the primate family of species on this planet. So something, someone, or some force caused us to split and begin taking on our own unique characteristics. That thing, indeed was our creator. Unfortunately, if God is 'above' conscious though, then that means the only deliberate action to create us could have been made by another superior (at the time) species. You know we are on the verge of creating some kind of consciousness in machines that are in fact better equipped for some aspects of this universe than us.
Humans in general have a longing to know God (although some people have managed to quench that hole through their own desires).
Humans have a longing for water. Someone told them it was actually a longing for coke. Look at how many people truly believe that (i.e.: get most of their liquid refreshment from coke) despite consciously knowing it's wrong. Now, who told you to generalise and say humans have a longing for God? And how do I know that guy isn't to the church what coca cola marketing is to coca cola?
Well, the Bible is probably the most consistent book ever written
Now you're being infantile. This book has changed so much from generation to generation, language to language, spin artist to spin artist that if there are any books that have lasted so long, this is by far the least consistant. When I was 12 we got to read Scrooge for English literature studies. I went with my mum to pick up the textbooks at the start of the year and was flipping through them on the way home. I read the first paragraph of Scrooge, and it was exactly as I remembered it from looking at it many years earlier. I was amazed, here was this book, clearly a brand new edition, which still had the same wording as the much older versions I'd seen. I mentioned it to my mum and she said that was natural, why would it change? You see, the only book I had read a couple of different editions of, was the Bible, and until that day, I just presumed that a different edition meant a completely different wording in any book. It wasn't until later that I realised the importance of each and every little word in an account.
I won't say it has NO contradictions, because there are a few minor ones, but they can generally
be explained by the memorization practices of the Jews.If you can say there are definately bits that are wrong, then you'll need to identify all of those bits, and explain how they came to be there without the rest of the content being corrupted, otherwise the most prudent move would tbe to scrap all data that can't be verified from this database as it may be corrupting any factual data.
>>
The remainder of your post degraded into speculation, and you, claiming to be a man of logic. I know you will not give anything I say fair speculation for that would mean putting aside your faith in God. All I can say is that if people put half the energy you put into defending you religious choices into taking action to see that no one on this planet is in fear or need, then we wouldn't need a heaven because we'd already be there (thanx to the great prophet Homer for that one.).
No, America, and her allies have divided the world's population into 2. There are the people who are born with the right to a secure roof over their heads, fair employment, not having to sleep in their shit, etc. And then there's the other people.
Well, the other people are sick of having to wonder if they'll still be alive tonite, EVERY MORNING, and want to share some of the life style about.
There's no pathalogical hate of America or the west, there is simply a normal human tendancy to fight tyrany.
I may be a little confused. Is one of the church's key teachings not that you must give your heart, mind , desire, 10% of your income, etc to the Lord?
Would that not constitute giving up your sovereignty to God through the church?
Can you comprehend the story of children brought up devout christians, who reached adolescence, started to test their environments, had the waggling finger of doom pointed at them from the pulpit, thought "shit, I better smarten up and fly straight until this threat goes away", and then actually spend time proving one way or the other if it is a real threat?
Many of the 'heathens' you fail to consider the position of actually came from this background. You find many people intollerant of you because of your closed mindedness to the motivations of non church going folk.
I personally find it insulting that when this time is looked back on from some distant future we will each be tarred with the character of the average 21st century person. All this intollerance and closed mindedness suggests that my lifetime wont be credited with including the day the world gave up war/struggle/oppression forever.
Don't get too offended by me, I am just an idiot. Just like every other idiot trying to keep it together out there and neither God nor the government have made any decrees declaring my word to be gospel.
Wakko Warner's MO:
Make some sort of semi-comforting message, then, lace it with a subtle poisonous twist.
No, you're not addicted. Your idea of getting some sleep is getting off the couch, turning on the computer, dial the net, log on, surf to slashdot, read the latest story, and make a contribution. Pleasant dreams....
Saw the interview on MSNBC. It was severely chopped up at key points. Still no description of the hijackers from any passengers (except that one scary one on de.indymedia.org which has since dissapeared.)
The guy was a hero, but from what I can tell of the descriptions of the final fight, and other calls from that plane, they died without making a difference.
Jeremy Glick was a real hero, he stood up and said "No", where many others would have hid and thought irrationally about their own safety. Don't let what comes out in the future change anyone's perception of that.
>> God has given us free will. Hard to accept, but true.
Not too hard to accept when you realise 'wow, when I try to do anything, nothing stops me' and 'gee, my actions seem to always cause reactions. Mayby I should consider my every action.". That's when you realise that any control you have experienced before was imposed by the will of another human. The next step is taking responsibility for your own thoughts and actions - we'll welcome you into the world of the conscious when you do, you know.
>> Now you're saying "then why doesn't he just show himself!" Well, to some, He does...
1) Call me paranoid, but I noticed that the only refernce to God with no capital was in you quoting (me?) Do you perhaps feel that since you give your will to God, you are somehow worthy of better understanding man's relationship with a deity?
2) You have hit the nail on the head, though. If you don't believe what the church says, then quite often you wouldn't comprehand God as a figure who can reveal himself. This question, I have found perculiar to young christians trying to come to terms with handing over their will.
>> In a similar way, I really believe that God will use this to draw many, many people to Himself. He works in all things for good for those that love Him. What Satan has meant for evil, God has meant for good.
(Bare with me, this may draw out) I do not go to church. When I ask churchgoing people about their experiences, they clam up. I do not know what you church people talk about amongst yourselves.
I do know that the American govt. has been pushing the US=God's_people and Satan's_People>>Middle_East ideas for years now. Particularly the Bush Family (Anyone see that speach Bush Snr made to the Oil companies the other day? Praising his son, calling for internet crackdowns, and peddling his 'Hussain is Satan' shit asgain?) You may be right about God drawing his people to him and then making a giant strike against Satan. (In the biblical/figuarative sense.) It sounds more plausable than anything else you've said in your last 24 comments. (I was going to remove this bit because it sounded a bit like an attack. It's not (cough*any more*cough), and I apologise for trying to one up myself on you here.
I left it there though. There is an irony that, neively, your most hardcore christian predictions may prove hideously true.)(Of course, in the interests of fair play, here's my last 24 comments.)
To reverse this situation and look from the eyes of the perpetrators in the moment they suffered their attack. If they thought "Kill *them*, their *entire families*, their *entire extended families*, etc, etc", you'd already be dead. If they are discussing shit like yours in Washington, then you're already dead. Good luck.
Wasn't there a story on \. the other day about the Govt. raiding an ISP...