France had such a law a couple of years ago. It was abandoned when it became clear that the NSA were snooping on conversations between French companies to help American ones gain an edge. So, yes, such a law can indeed be enforced.
How do you feel about NAI not releasing anything but the crypto code, as opposed to the whole shebang like when you were in charge? Do you have anything comforting to say to us who look back through a nostalgic fog at the days when you personally signed every binary copy and assured your users that every relase was backdoor-free, or is it time to revive the age-old myth about the gaping hole that allows the NSA or whoever it is to read everything you try to keep them from gleaning at?
First off all, I wish them great luck. I've (along with the united geekdom of the world, I presume) been waiting for something like this to happen for most of my life.
In related news, Rocketguy is still scheduled for take off in May 2002. His project is even more impressive, in my opinion.
Also, how
would/does the government know wether a bitstream is random bits, or
encrypted data?"
Probably, the focus will be on encrypted emails and the like. But, I hear some of you object, this won't prevent Ohama from hiding encrypted messages in porno pics, or whatever he's doing. You're right it wouldn't. But then again, is there even one slashdotter who actually believe this would in any way prevent terrorism? I think not. And I don't think those passing this act think so either. They are just passing as many Orwellian bills as possible in the wake of this tragedy, partly because they want to obtrude on the American people some false sense of security, and partly because they just want to snoop on you, for no real reason at all.
God forbid someone *gasp* misses a Slashdot story.
This is not the point, and I'm sure you can see that for yourself. The point is that this quote has been posted in threads to stories that you should read before posting in this one (of that exact reason - not to be redundant). The stories I'm talking about here include, for example, the story about the government considering installing backdoors.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to read which stories you want. I'm saying that before posting your very insightful thoughts, there might be a point in checking out whether they have already been posted in stories that most people reading this story might have read.
And you shouldn't take criticism from/. trolls so serious that you actually feel compulsed to reply to every single one of them, really.
Of crypto backdoors? I'm sure that would be very useful.
You see, the beowulf trolls usually limit themselves to troll on those stories that concern physical objects. You should clearly try to make a career as an ascii art, goatse.cx, natalie portman, hot grits, stephen king found dead, *BSD is dying, or first post troll, as those are allowed to post on every single story.
Youth today..
Oh, did I mention that this post was gonna be slightly off topic?
for CHRIST SAKE! This can't be modded up every time it appears in some YRL thread! Its massively redundant by now.
Everyone who is concerned about these issues and reads these threads has seen that at least a hundred times - in comments,.sigs, and even sometimes in the story itself.
Like sweden? What do you know about SÄPO?
Swedish communist camps during WW2 and
"IB afären" surly shows what our "socialdemokratiska" regim does.
I know a lot about SAPO. What is it that you would like to know? We have an intelligence agency, so what? Everyone has one.
I would love to see you back up the statement about communist camps during WWII. Even if you could, which you can't (since that is a myth), would you claim them to be worse than japanese camps in the US during the same war? Didn't think so either.
Concerning IB, well that wasn't too pretty, but I never said Sweden is perfect - I said it wasn't worse than the US. Do you really think it is? Do you think the tiny tiny IB thingy is worse than, say, Echelon and Carnivore? Answer an honest yes to that and you're probably just plain mad.
Sweaden got a king, nothing bad with that,
BUT since the swedish dictator "Gustav Wasa"
the king becomes king becouse of inheritance.
The king can not be punished. We are luky he
just do trivial things like speeding with his car.
But what will the next (Queen) do? Its funny
that sweeden now is soooo "democratic" that
females now can be king/queen.
Like I said, Sweden is a democracy. You should know that since you live there, and it happens so to be that the royalties have support among a crushing majority of the population (about 80%). The Swedish people want their king, who are you to deny them? And it's not like he has some actual power anyway.
I think the examples you have chosen show you have no real understanding of how other governments, especially the US, are treating their citizens. I made a comparision. You are not the one to comment if you can only see one side.
By declaring that my response will most likely be perceived as FUD, propaganda, or prejudice, before I even write it, you make
me hesitant to respond. Will you actually consider the words I write, or disengage after the first sentence, declaring to others
that it's just more FUD?
This is not what I said. Quote:
I have not heard decent arguments in favour of this. And I'm not trolling either: if you give me
them, I will accept being wrong.
That said, I must say that you have not convinced me. It is sad that this would be the case, because now you will think you were right when claiming I would dismiss you as FUD even before reading, but this is the exact kind of reply I'm talking about.
You talk a lot about "the American dream", that "everybody in America are ancestors of people who came their in hope of a better life" etc. These are things that are not relevant. What is relevant is actual laws, not this vague rhetoric. Do you know any laws of Sweden? Do you know how well civil liberties are protected there? Can you even place Sweden on a map? Allow me to be doubtful.
I'm just saying that I think most Americans have no clue on these matters. To say that America is free is fair. To make uninformed, unmotived, and unnecessary bold comparisions is not.
In France, there is a law that forbids people to use any kind of encryption.
This is untrue. There was such a law, then it came out that the US had been using Echelon to gain trade secrets by eavesdropping on french phone conversations and sniffing emails. The French gov. then made a 180, and began encouraging the use of encryption, especially for companies.
This doesn't affect your argument, since they had such a law and it in fact did very little to protect against terrorists, but you should still get your facts straight.
I hate to be a jerk and flame you in a time like this, but there just has been enough of these kind of comments now. America is, by most peoples measurements, not more free than most of the worlds democracies. How is America more free than say, the European democracies (an example I take because I know their laws fairly well, as opposed to the laws of say, Australia or India)?
I am the first to admit that America is a decent democracy, but also the first to admit that it appear to me, a non-American who nonetheless have lived in the US for a long period of time, much less free than my country (Sweden). You have a bunch of government agencies snooping around on just about everything, a bunch of largly arbitrary laws regarding many things which have negative impact on freedom that have no equivalent in other countries (did I hear DMCA?), a government with the right to kill it's own people (but let's not discuss that now. Flame me some other day, this is not the time for a substantial discussion on that). I could go on and on, but I assume what I am trying to say should be clear by now.
I'm just interested in what makes many of you so certain that America is not only free (because that I can agree with), but actually much more free than other countries? I have not heard decent arguments in favour of this. And I'm not trolling either: if you give me them, I will accept being wrong. It's just not that I've never heard them. In fact, all I've ever heard regarding this are comments and remarks strikingly similar to FUD, propaganda and prejudices.
This won't work, as explained by poster MattW in the RIGHT thread (mumble mumble). I here paste his reply to the same idea:
All they'd have to do is hide no-backdoor encrypted messages within backdoor-encrypted messages, and it would be undetected unless Carnivore automatically decrypted all messages, which conflicts with what the lawmakers are saying -- "only under the oversight of a court".
Because these chips give off no regularly timed signal, the way clocked circuits do, they can perform encryption in a way that is harder to identify and to crack.
Not if you have a backdoor. Guess these guys don't read Wired..
Innocent human lives do not go on opposite sides of a balance, with Americans or Israelis on one side, Palestinians on the other. Innocent human life knows no political boundaries. Innocent human lives are always just that: human lives.
Let me twice quote the author of the article that your post was in reply to:
Thousands of innocent people may have lost their lives in a most tragic way. Surely, no peace loving person can condone the killing of civilian people regardless of what race, nationality or creed they possess.
and
One people are no more human than any other. As Americans grieve for the loss of their loved ones, so do Palestinians grieve for the senseless deaths of their people and the same goes for the Iraqis as well.
I don't see your point. He's merely hoping that this will be a wake-up call for America, and that if we do not condone of this attack, we should end our meaningless slaughtering of people in the Middle East, as that is just as evil or worse.
You mean other than donating money, giving blood, and generally supporting the rescue workers and the families effected, right?
What he means is that that these things are done by enough people already. For example, it's almost impossible to get an appointment to donate blood in NY right now. Donating tech equipment, however, is something the average Joe can't do, and thus it is appropriate that the geek community does its fair share.
But of course, you knew all this, and I understand what you were getting at. I just wanted to clarify things for other readers.
Re:Change the rules, be realistic about conflict
on
More On Tragedy
·
· Score: 1
the Islamic regimes and Western democracies cannot coexist.
And your proposal is.. to wipe them out? Great idea, especially considering that we don't yet know if any of those are involved in any way. I wish we would have done the same after Oklahoma City. Damn that would be good, we'd probably be at WW4 already!
No, you would have peace because one side would win and life would go on.
This time, allow me to quote a great anonymous thinker: "Oh how rich, and naive." I'll leave the rest for you to figure out. Hint: usually, when you wipe out nations because of crimes committed by a group of extremists, you don't have peace, you have more war. Next quote: "Let me repeat that for you so it sinks in and you can refer to it later:" usually, when you wipe out nations because of crimes committed by a group of extremists, you don't have peace, you have more war.
I completely agree. Slashdot has been my major news source during the course of this whole event(as one could probably tell by the vast amount of redundant comments I've submitted).
Slashdot Mirror
Great idea, now if we weren't all a bunch of lazy, disorganized procrastinators, perhaps we could get this going.
France had such a law a couple of years ago. It was abandoned when it became clear that the NSA were snooping on conversations between French companies to help American ones gain an edge. So, yes, such a law can indeed be enforced.
How do you feel about NAI not releasing anything but the crypto code, as opposed to the whole shebang like when you were in charge? Do you have anything comforting to say to us who look back through a nostalgic fog at the days when you personally signed every binary copy and assured your users that every relase was backdoor-free, or is it time to revive the age-old myth about the gaping hole that allows the NSA or whoever it is to read everything you try to keep them from gleaning at?
yup. Actually, I think it's pretty likely that he'll die doing this. Even more amazing, he appear to be aware of this himself too..
In related news, Rocketguy is still scheduled for take off in May 2002. His project is even more impressive, in my opinion.
Probably, the focus will be on encrypted emails and the like. But, I hear some of you object, this won't prevent Ohama from hiding encrypted messages in porno pics, or whatever he's doing. You're right it wouldn't. But then again, is there even one slashdotter who actually believe this would in any way prevent terrorism? I think not. And I don't think those passing this act think so either. They are just passing as many Orwellian bills as possible in the wake of this tragedy, partly because they want to obtrude on the American people some false sense of security, and partly because they just want to snoop on you, for no real reason at all.
this is off topic even to the extremly off topic topic, but you can get your password back just by requesting it emailed to you (noticed your .sig).
And what about yourself? And can't remember the orginial fobbman as being this funny. Has anybody ..naah, forget it.
This is not the point, and I'm sure you can see that for yourself. The point is that this quote has been posted in threads to stories that you should read before posting in this one (of that exact reason - not to be redundant). The stories I'm talking about here include, for example, the story about the government considering installing backdoors.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to read which stories you want. I'm saying that before posting your very insightful thoughts, there might be a point in checking out whether they have already been posted in stories that most people reading this story might have read.
And you shouldn't take criticism from /. trolls so serious that you actually feel compulsed to reply to every single one of them, really.
You see, the beowulf trolls usually limit themselves to troll on those stories that concern physical objects. You should clearly try to make a career as an ascii art, goatse.cx, natalie portman, hot grits, stephen king found dead, *BSD is dying, or first post troll, as those are allowed to post on every single story.
Youth today..
Oh, did I mention that this post was gonna be slightly off topic?
Four legs good! Two legs bad! Blah.
I know a lot about SAPO. What is it that you would like to know? We have an intelligence agency, so what? Everyone has one.
I would love to see you back up the statement about communist camps during WWII. Even if you could, which you can't (since that is a myth), would you claim them to be worse than japanese camps in the US during the same war? Didn't think so either.
Concerning IB, well that wasn't too pretty, but I never said Sweden is perfect - I said it wasn't worse than the US. Do you really think it is? Do you think the tiny tiny IB thingy is worse than, say, Echelon and Carnivore? Answer an honest yes to that and you're probably just plain mad.
Sweaden got a king, nothing bad with that, BUT since the swedish dictator "Gustav Wasa" the king becomes king becouse of inheritance. The king can not be punished. We are luky he just do trivial things like speeding with his car. But what will the next (Queen) do? Its funny that sweeden now is soooo "democratic" that females now can be king/queen.
Like I said, Sweden is a democracy. You should know that since you live there, and it happens so to be that the royalties have support among a crushing majority of the population (about 80%). The Swedish people want their king, who are you to deny them? And it's not like he has some actual power anyway.
I think the examples you have chosen show you have no real understanding of how other governments, especially the US, are treating their citizens. I made a comparision. You are not the one to comment if you can only see one side.
"An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind" - Ghandi
- By declaring that my response will most likely be perceived as FUD, propaganda, or prejudice, before I even write it, you make
me hesitant to respond. Will you actually consider the words I write, or disengage after the first sentence, declaring to others
that it's just more FUD?
This is not what I said. Quote:That said, I must say that you have not convinced me. It is sad that this would be the case, because now you will think you were right when claiming I would dismiss you as FUD even before reading, but this is the exact kind of reply I'm talking about.
You talk a lot about "the American dream", that "everybody in America are ancestors of people who came their in hope of a better life" etc. These are things that are not relevant. What is relevant is actual laws, not this vague rhetoric. Do you know any laws of Sweden? Do you know how well civil liberties are protected there? Can you even place Sweden on a map? Allow me to be doubtful.
I'm just saying that I think most Americans have no clue on these matters. To say that America is free is fair. To make uninformed, unmotived, and unnecessary bold comparisions is not.
This is untrue. There was such a law, then it came out that the US had been using Echelon to gain trade secrets by eavesdropping on french phone conversations and sniffing emails. The French gov. then made a 180, and began encouraging the use of encryption, especially for companies.
This doesn't affect your argument, since they had such a law and it in fact did very little to protect against terrorists, but you should still get your facts straight.
I hate to be a jerk and flame you in a time like this, but there just has been enough of these kind of comments now. America is, by most peoples measurements, not more free than most of the worlds democracies. How is America more free than say, the European democracies (an example I take because I know their laws fairly well, as opposed to the laws of say, Australia or India)?
I am the first to admit that America is a decent democracy, but also the first to admit that it appear to me, a non-American who nonetheless have lived in the US for a long period of time, much less free than my country (Sweden). You have a bunch of government agencies snooping around on just about everything, a bunch of largly arbitrary laws regarding many things which have negative impact on freedom that have no equivalent in other countries (did I hear DMCA?), a government with the right to kill it's own people (but let's not discuss that now. Flame me some other day, this is not the time for a substantial discussion on that). I could go on and on, but I assume what I am trying to say should be clear by now.
I'm just interested in what makes many of you so certain that America is not only free (because that I can agree with), but actually much more free than other countries? I have not heard decent arguments in favour of this. And I'm not trolling either: if you give me them, I will accept being wrong. It's just not that I've never heard them. In fact, all I've ever heard regarding this are comments and remarks strikingly similar to FUD, propaganda and prejudices.
Not that I think face-recognition software actually would have prevented anything, but that's another issue.
I agree. It was unnecessary and provocative.
"An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind"
Just nitpicking..
All they'd have to do is hide no-backdoor encrypted messages within backdoor-encrypted messages, and it would be undetected unless Carnivore automatically decrypted all messages, which conflicts with what the lawmakers are saying -- "only under the oversight of a court".
As for stenography, check out this link.
Not if you have a backdoor. Guess these guys don't read Wired..
Let me twice quote the author of the article that your post was in reply to:
and
One people are no more human than any other. As Americans grieve for the loss of their loved ones, so do Palestinians grieve for the senseless deaths of their people and the same goes for the Iraqis as well.
I don't see your point. He's merely hoping that this will be a wake-up call for America, and that if we do not condone of this attack, we should end our meaningless slaughtering of people in the Middle East, as that is just as evil or worse.
I, for one, do.
What he means is that that these things are done by enough people already. For example, it's almost impossible to get an appointment to donate blood in NY right now. Donating tech equipment, however, is something the average Joe can't do, and thus it is appropriate that the geek community does its fair share.
But of course, you knew all this, and I understand what you were getting at. I just wanted to clarify things for other readers.
And your proposal is.. to wipe them out? Great idea, especially considering that we don't yet know if any of those are involved in any way. I wish we would have done the same after Oklahoma City. Damn that would be good, we'd probably be at WW4 already!
No, you would have peace because one side would win and life would go on.
This time, allow me to quote a great anonymous thinker: "Oh how rich, and naive." I'll leave the rest for you to figure out. Hint: usually, when you wipe out nations because of crimes committed by a group of extremists, you don't have peace, you have more war. Next quote: "Let me repeat that for you so it sinks in and you can refer to it later:" usually, when you wipe out nations because of crimes committed by a group of extremists, you don't have peace, you have more war.
I completely agree. Slashdot has been my major news source during the course of this whole event(as one could probably tell by the vast amount of redundant comments I've submitted).