I guess I just don't see it as "free". Yes, getting rid of something that's already in memory and not used is free. But getting it there in the first place isn't. I guess I don't see the trade-off......this isn't like a normal processor cache as I see it. It's not, pretty fast memory to really fast memory on or near the chip (i guess near doesn't exist anymore, but...) It's disk to pretty fast memory. Now, HDs are pretty fast these days, but I still don't see that it's comparable.
Yeah, but the PS2 came out before the GC by a bit, and the price difference was comparatively much smaller. The PS3 and Wii were 2 days apart here in the States....I know other markets were longer, but still Japan was just a few weeks. I'm sure there was some sort of shortage when the GC came out, but I know it's nothing like what we're seeing with the Wii.
I guess my point is comparing PS2/GC to PS3/Wii really doesn't make sense. The situation is very different this time.
"The time it takes to erase something from RAM is negligible."
Yeah, it basically doesn't exist. The point was why load the crap in there in the first place. Assuming it always does this, regardless of the RAM in the system.....assume 1/2 of the 900mb (out of 1Gb) in used RAM on my system right now is frequently used....(running XP x64, not Vista)...that's probably about right, if no a low estimate....what sense does it make to load 450 or so MB in when I decide to just play Oblivion or something and none of that is used, and might even be written over?
I agree. I just built a new Athlon 64 system and out of my internal components, only my TV card doesn't work on XP x64.....and that's only with the manufacturer's drivers. I have a less than optimal workaround for it, so i guess you could say I'm 100%.
If you ignore the webcam that's under my desk somewhere that I forgot about and only noticed when I started plugging all the USB cables back in. No lose.
"If you've got XGB of RAM, you may as well *use* it to cache commonly used data etc. and speed up your system, rather than just have it sit there like a lemon. Please tell me how doing this "shows poor design"?"
Loading things into RAM isn't free. Yes, maybe you'd gain some speed when you run an app that's already in memory, but how much waste was there when you load up something that wasn't and pushes out the things it decided to pre-load?
"Python may be older, but it's still sitting in the programming language high chair right next to Ruby. People say the same thing about Python; "if you want a job learn Java, c#, c++"; and you know what they're right, if you want a job learn Java, period."
Was going to make a comment about the first public releases of Python and Ruby being in 1991 and 1995, respectively, thus making both as old or older than Java. So, guess I just did. Anyway, think you were getting at the people who tout Java, C# etc cause they are popular, not necessarily newer. I agree with that.
Don't know what Max Drive Pro is, but the PSO hack involved the GC broadband adapter, which the Wii does not support or emulate from what I understand.
Granted, I'm in the military and can't afford anything uber-cool in a calculator anyway. Though, I could get the Gov to pay for one, maybe.....thing is, for what I do (mostly modeling of an aircraft tracking program.....) I get by, with, would you believe it, a TI-82. For what I use a calculator for, it works. For the rest, there are programs on the computer. Granted the latter isn't an option for what you're asking, but.....for a HS class. You can probably get by, and I really don't know of anything better than, as another poster pointed out, HP's offerings.
The thing is, recent DC games have been shooters that really don't nearly use all of the capacity of the GDROMs. Now, that may not be univerally true of all potential NAOMI ports, but it has been for the last 2 years or so.
Can't get to the article from work, but....Game was released last month. The Wii was released 12 days ago in Japan. Are they just comparing those 12 days, or the whole time the former has been out?
I agree. I really worried that things could be too hard if developers used the full accuracy of the thing right off the bat. If they did, we'd be hearing alot more complaints, I think. The thing definately seems to have the potential though. Anyone who has one should try just using the interface sitting in a Lazy-boy that rocks while thinking they are sitting still. It picks up everything. (which gets annoying sitting in a Lazy-boy, but I do have a couch too.....)
Amen to that. I'm pretty sure I pulled something in my right arm the first few hours with my Wii. (god, that never stops sounding funny) I'd be really upset if I had to keep playing everything the way I did initially all the time. It was fun, may be fun every once in a while, but not all the time.
You make a good point. I did add the caveat "I'd like to think" onto my opinion. Works for me, but it may only work for a small percentage of the people who will pirate things. I dunno.
If I keep it on my hard drive (or burn it off to disc).....I do pay for it. Hell, if I watch, or listen to all of it, I pay for it. (unless I'm really bored and sit through crap. sometimes I do, but it's not that often)
I agree with you though....that's where my "most wouldn't" comment comes in. And, it's true. I guess that's the submitter's question. What about them? I did answer that. Again, I'd hope most people weren't "evil".
The thing is, if you market the shiny case, people will buy it. At least, the market thus far proves that to be true. Me, myself, I tend to be a huge "pirate", but I'll pay for something I think is worth it, even after getting it for free. That can't be said for most. But, irregardless, the masses will pay for it. At least so far. I guess my point is, make quality, make people think it's worth paying for, and I'd hope most would. Maybe I'm an idealist though......
I'm pretty sure alot of people "alive" in 1968 never knew that. Granted, they died before 7-20-1969, so they never played any LSL games, but still......
I agree....99% of what we work is existing. Me, I don't usually care, but when that new thing that doesn't exist comes along I jump on it. Not cause it helps me. I can see how the new thing helps what's there already. (and "new" is cool). Screw resume's. I Love Programming. I love giving our customer what they need. That's one of the signs of a good/great programmer. I think. (granted I'm biased in that opinion)
Me personally? Maybe I've just never programmed in a place to use it. I guess my problem is I see it being used wrong, or what I think is wrong. It's like telling someone (like me) still in the Structured World that flowcharts are the answer to everything (people still think this).....both have their places, but I guess I miss how UML is more than a complicated flowchart. (and, again, I'm probably woefully misinformed.....)
But seriously, if you have a life, who has time for extra programming. I do bring my work home, sometimes.....get around to it almost never when I actually do.....believe me, I enjoy programming/"doing something productive"......thing is, in the real world, there are productive things that aren't programming
"Most CS instructors will cram down students' throats that if they concentrate on principles they can pick up any language/platform as if it's nothing at all. It's a lie, but that's what they say."
and then:
"I would have been in programmer heaven to just do it all in C and/bin/sh, if only to have a platform that someone on this earth documented and understood without v0.00001 APIs and pretty UML pictures that meant absolutely nothing without minutes of explaining."
Do you not see that those statements kinda contradict each other? I program in JOVIAL, on an IBM 4/PI (360 mainframe if you want to make it simple)......I never finished my CS degree, but I know enough that they are right. C and/bin/sh would be cool, but so is any language. They all have their faults, but in the end it doesn't matter. Real programmers don't care. (and don't eat quiche). The concepts ARE everything.
giving up moderating this thread (honestly, probably wouldn't have anyway, don't know shit about hotel management software so this was the one commentso far i wanted to moderate), but......
you should have tied you're responses further down into this or something. no one who isn't moderating is going to read down, compare, and see that you really do know what you are talking about. (and, consequently, are really being constructive to the conversation.)
I'm not completely sure. I don't think.NET is even a default install for SP2. But, as an example, ATI cards. The Control Panel in the Catalyst Drivers for a while has required.NET. It stuff like that that I can see making.NET a defualt install on most new comps.
(and, again, I'm honestly not sure the compilers come with the runtime. But, I think that cause I think I remember thinking it was odd, "Why would the complier be included in the runtime?".....)
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I guess I just don't see it as "free". Yes, getting rid of something that's already in memory and not used is free. But getting it there in the first place isn't. I guess I don't see the trade-off......this isn't like a normal processor cache as I see it. It's not, pretty fast memory to really fast memory on or near the chip (i guess near doesn't exist anymore, but...) It's disk to pretty fast memory. Now, HDs are pretty fast these days, but I still don't see that it's comparable.
I may be wrong.
Yeah, but the PS2 came out before the GC by a bit, and the price difference was comparatively much smaller. The PS3 and Wii were 2 days apart here in the States....I know other markets were longer, but still Japan was just a few weeks. I'm sure there was some sort of shortage when the GC came out, but I know it's nothing like what we're seeing with the Wii.
I guess my point is comparing PS2/GC to PS3/Wii really doesn't make sense. The situation is very different this time.
"The time it takes to erase something from RAM is negligible."
Yeah, it basically doesn't exist. The point was why load the crap in there in the first place. Assuming it always does this, regardless of the RAM in the system.....assume 1/2 of the 900mb (out of 1Gb) in used RAM on my system right now is frequently used....(running XP x64, not Vista)...that's probably about right, if no a low estimate....what sense does it make to load 450 or so MB in when I decide to just play Oblivion or something and none of that is used, and might even be written over?
I agree. I just built a new Athlon 64 system and out of my internal components, only my TV card doesn't work on XP x64.....and that's only with the manufacturer's drivers. I have a less than optimal workaround for it, so i guess you could say I'm 100%.
If you ignore the webcam that's under my desk somewhere that I forgot about and only noticed when I started plugging all the USB cables back in. No lose.
"If you've got XGB of RAM, you may as well *use* it to cache commonly used data etc. and speed up your system, rather than just have it sit there like a lemon. Please tell me how doing this "shows poor design"?"
Loading things into RAM isn't free. Yes, maybe you'd gain some speed when you run an app that's already in memory, but how much waste was there when you load up something that wasn't and pushes out the things it decided to pre-load?
"Python may be older, but it's still sitting in the programming language high chair right next to Ruby. People say the same thing about Python; "if you want a job learn Java, c#, c++"; and you know what they're right, if you want a job learn Java, period."
Was going to make a comment about the first public releases of Python and Ruby being in 1991 and 1995, respectively, thus making both as old or older than Java. So, guess I just did. Anyway, think you were getting at the people who tout Java, C# etc cause they are popular, not necessarily newer. I agree with that.
Don't know what Max Drive Pro is, but the PSO hack involved the GC broadband adapter, which the Wii does not support or emulate from what I understand.
Granted, I'm in the military and can't afford anything uber-cool in a calculator anyway. Though, I could get the Gov to pay for one, maybe.....thing is, for what I do (mostly modeling of an aircraft tracking program.....) I get by, with, would you believe it, a TI-82. For what I use a calculator for, it works. For the rest, there are programs on the computer. Granted the latter isn't an option for what you're asking, but.....for a HS class. You can probably get by, and I really don't know of anything better than, as another poster pointed out, HP's offerings.
Read the GP. They were comparing the US Military Budget to entire budgets of other nations. At least that's how it was worded.
The thing is, recent DC games have been shooters that really don't nearly use all of the capacity of the GDROMs. Now, that may not be univerally true of all potential NAOMI ports, but it has been for the last 2 years or so.
And this story is the first thing Isee. (typing is a bitch)
Can't get to the article from work, but....Game was released last month. The Wii was released 12 days ago in Japan. Are they just comparing those 12 days, or the whole time the former has been out?
I agree. I really worried that things could be too hard if developers used the full accuracy of the thing right off the bat. If they did, we'd be hearing alot more complaints, I think. The thing definately seems to have the potential though. Anyone who has one should try just using the interface sitting in a Lazy-boy that rocks while thinking they are sitting still. It picks up everything. (which gets annoying sitting in a Lazy-boy, but I do have a couch too.....)
Amen to that. I'm pretty sure I pulled something in my right arm the first few hours with my Wii. (god, that never stops sounding funny) I'd be really upset if I had to keep playing everything the way I did initially all the time. It was fun, may be fun every once in a while, but not all the time.
It will. Edgy just grabbed it as on update on my system not 3 min ago.
You make a good point. I did add the caveat "I'd like to think" onto my opinion. Works for me, but it may only work for a small percentage of the people who will pirate things. I dunno.
If I keep it on my hard drive (or burn it off to disc).....I do pay for it. Hell, if I watch, or listen to all of it, I pay for it. (unless I'm really bored and sit through crap. sometimes I do, but it's not that often)
I agree with you though....that's where my "most wouldn't" comment comes in. And, it's true. I guess that's the submitter's question. What about them? I did answer that. Again, I'd hope most people weren't "evil".
The thing is, if you market the shiny case, people will buy it. At least, the market thus far proves that to be true. Me, myself, I tend to be a huge "pirate", but I'll pay for something I think is worth it, even after getting it for free. That can't be said for most. But, irregardless, the masses will pay for it. At least so far. I guess my point is, make quality, make people think it's worth paying for, and I'd hope most would. Maybe I'm an idealist though......
I'm pretty sure alot of people "alive" in 1968 never knew that. Granted, they died before 7-20-1969, so they never played any LSL games, but still......
I agree....99% of what we work is existing. Me, I don't usually care, but when that new thing that doesn't exist comes along I jump on it. Not cause it helps me. I can see how the new thing helps what's there already. (and "new" is cool). Screw resume's. I Love Programming. I love giving our customer what they need. That's one of the signs of a good/great programmer. I think. (granted I'm biased in that opinion)
Me personally? Maybe I've just never programmed in a place to use it. I guess my problem is I see it being used wrong, or what I think is wrong. It's like telling someone (like me) still in the Structured World that flowcharts are the answer to everything (people still think this).....both have their places, but I guess I miss how UML is more than a complicated flowchart. (and, again, I'm probably woefully misinformed.....)
But seriously, if you have a life, who has time for extra programming. I do bring my work home, sometimes.....get around to it almost never when I actually do.....believe me, I enjoy programming/"doing something productive"......thing is, in the real world, there are productive things that aren't programming
You say:
/bin/sh, if only to have a platform that someone on this earth documented and understood without v0.00001 APIs and pretty UML pictures that meant absolutely nothing without minutes of explaining."
/bin/sh would be cool, but so is any language. They all have their faults, but in the end it doesn't matter. Real programmers don't care. (and don't eat quiche). The concepts ARE everything.
"Most CS instructors will cram down students' throats that if they concentrate on principles they can pick up any language/platform as if it's nothing at all. It's a lie, but that's what they say."
and then:
"I would have been in programmer heaven to just do it all in C and
Do you not see that those statements kinda contradict each other? I program in JOVIAL, on an IBM 4/PI (360 mainframe if you want to make it simple)......I never finished my CS degree, but I know enough that they are right. C and
(I agree with you about UML though...)
giving up moderating this thread (honestly, probably wouldn't have anyway, don't know shit about hotel management software so this was the one commentso far i wanted to moderate), but......
you should have tied you're responses further down into this or something. no one who isn't moderating is going to read down, compare, and see that you really do know what you are talking about. (and, consequently, are really being constructive to the conversation.)
I'm not completely sure. I don't think .NET is even a default install for SP2. But, as an example, ATI cards. The Control Panel in the Catalyst Drivers for a while has required .NET. It stuff like that that I can see making .NET a defualt install on most new comps.
(and, again, I'm honestly not sure the compilers come with the runtime. But, I think that cause I think I remember thinking it was odd, "Why would the complier be included in the runtime?".....)