equator temperature of 100K to 390K and a mean of 220K, I would say no.
So would I
Yet, once we add an atmosphere (Earth), we end up with much more reasonable temperatures.
My point exactly. Furthermore, if the atmospheres where formed on the same time the planets did, after they 'settle' (i.e. after they stop escaping into space) a 'lid' is formed around the planet that makes it more difficult for heat to escape.
On the other hand, while the atmospheres are still settling, they are much more optically thick so no cooling occurs (except, of course, from the fraction of the atmosphere escaping to space carrying heat with it). And from what I've read, nearly Earth-sized planets forming in gaseous proto-planetary disks acquire atmospheres comparable in mass with the atmospheres of Earth and Venus, whereas Mars and Mercury-sized planets would be in serious trouble keeping their atmospheres over large timescales.
.. not my favorite term, but a way to derive it in front of astrophysics students is to assume a planetary body, no atmosphere, figure out its surface temperature, and demand it to be 'within liquid water limits'.
Now, since one may very correctly inquire, "liquid water without atmosphere? Are you on crack? And do your math, some planets are obviously not in it like, well, THE ONE WE'RE STANDING ON", I will have to add that I have been in two conferences so far, and 'habitable zone' seems to be more a popular term than a scientific one.
There is much talking though on 'expanding' the definition (see 'dwarf planet' for examples on how that works) talking into account atmospheres, orbital characteristics and other stuff.
Still, given where we stand now regarding exoplanet detection, it's not so bad using what we've got and work our way up from there.
And that is only to find a single transit. Then add another year to get the orbit, probably another year at least to confirm.
Well, probably yes, assuming they're looking for yearly (like Earth's) orbits. Makes a bit of sense, but an Earth-like planet might be closer or further away from its host star, and be perfectly OK for liquid water, life, all that (depending on the host star's energy output). Probably not very different from a year though, it rather depends on the sizes (mass and orbital radius) involved.
As for the confirmation, it might not get that long; since the dip might be a starspot or a different agent, a Doppler effect study (or astrometry, in the future) might confirm or dismiss it because, to some extent, different methods of detection can be used on the same source for confirmation. Though, on the Kepler mission, I think the confirmation is 'included' and the timeframe is set for 3 years.
To me it seems that it is going to be a very slow start (apart from these totally hotrock type planets with insanely quick orbit) but then the taps will be turned on and they will start finding exponentially more and more?
Hopefully yes. For the moment the methods of detection are biased- each of them is capable of locating specific groups of planets based on two parameters, those parameters being the planetary mass and its distance from its host star- there's also gravitational lensing that can 'see' better, but its a one-timer.
Encouragingly enough, if one plots the findings so far (mass vs orbital distance) it is not hard to imagine that the so far covered areas will start to expand. My point being that, before the Kepler mission, 'hot Jupiters' kept being the majority of bodies discovered, because they are the only ones we had the means detecting- Kepler has been watching the same patch of space, and it should see more than 'hot Jupiters' (provided they're out there and we are going around this the right way).
True that. You need to realize that you're 'up against' your own paranoid disposition of seeing everybody as your enemy. You need to also realize that, provided you're not going to your own planet anytime soon, you could try LIVING WITH the rest of the world, instead of feeling like you're 'up against' it, and that bad chinese borg drone-people are after you, driven by their hive mind's hatred for your 'Land of Freedom'.
I can seriously not fathom how the hell you got +Insightful. I can only assume that that's the kind of 'insight' that got you in your suspicious 'us vs them' mindframe in the first place
Oh, it would be nice, wouldn't it? Or just invade them and force them to comply.
But they are a bit too large a country to be bitchslapped around- China is big enough to call the shots, and they know it
Plus, money is a faulty concept, a dirty business and all that, so I'm not surprised that nobody sheds a tear for the US being beaten at their own game.
I guess your point is that there are numerous ways to present results to outline the 'hint' one wants to pass to their audience? If so, you can't be more correct.
It would help to know the actual numbers without beating around the bush, but from what I understand London is quite the CCTV city- More than ten years back, some of my friends where approached by aggressive locals at a busy London street. My friends attacked them first because they were sure where the thing was going from the locals' attitude ("piss off you foreign piece of sh*t" and the like). The police was there in literally under 2 minutes, and my friends thought they were in more trouble. But the police immediately arrested the locals, because they had seen the whole thing through CCTV- which means they were not only watching, but were ready for field deployment.
Not exactly sure, I was an infant back then- but compared to prices for other PCs the price was ridiculous. In all fairness though, IMO it was the Schneider CPC 6128 that had the best cost vs usefulness ratio; there even where books on how to use its RS232 for robotics! A little later everybody was like "Atari ST this, Amiga 500 that", but the cost was forbidding (where I lived). I remember the 286 my father got for the family business cost a *fortune*.
To put this in context --with a car analogy =P --, the 286 cost was that of a mid-condition used western european-made car- and when the 386s where out, I remember the actual IBM-branded ones costing 3 to 4 times more that their 'IBM-compatible' counterparts and slightly more than a new eastern european-made car.
I should also highlight that both the IBM-branded PC and the eastern european-made car still work! (the western car is long gone)
Attacking is easy. Defense is hard. ( ex. Nuclear Weapons use)
Not true, numerous counterexamples; the simplest one being barricaded somewhere on a mountain with the weather on your side, batteries, ammo, a trustworthy sniper rifle, lots of food, and an internet connection (for your idle time between headshots)
"we see smth fishy, so we call someone who gives a crap"-
Please, PLEASE tell me that this is not what constitutes the patent- if it is, I think I missed the part where the patent+legal systems of the US went completely mad. Even more so, haven't banks been doing this for years now? (prior 'art' or whatever)
Slashdot Mirror
equator temperature of 100K to 390K and a mean of 220K, I would say no.
So would I
Yet, once we add an atmosphere (Earth), we end up with much more reasonable temperatures.
My point exactly. Furthermore, if the atmospheres where formed on the same time the planets did, after they 'settle' (i.e. after they stop escaping into space) a 'lid' is formed around the planet that makes it more difficult for heat to escape.
On the other hand, while the atmospheres are still settling, they are much more optically thick so no cooling occurs (except, of course, from the fraction of the atmosphere escaping to space carrying heat with it). And from what I've read, nearly Earth-sized planets forming in gaseous proto-planetary disks acquire atmospheres comparable in mass with the atmospheres of Earth and Venus, whereas Mars and Mercury-sized planets would be in serious trouble keeping their atmospheres over large timescales.
In my graduate studies, we defined and derived it with and without an atmosphere.
Interesting- how did you do that in the atmosphere case? Multiply it with a factor to inhibit cooling, after/while you get the temperature balance?
.. not my favorite term, but a way to derive it in front of astrophysics students is to assume a planetary body, no atmosphere, figure out its surface temperature, and demand it to be 'within liquid water limits'.
Now, since one may very correctly inquire, "liquid water without atmosphere? Are you on crack? And do your math, some planets are obviously not in it like, well, THE ONE WE'RE STANDING ON", I will have to add that I have been in two conferences so far, and 'habitable zone' seems to be more a popular term than a scientific one.
There is much talking though on 'expanding' the definition (see 'dwarf planet' for examples on how that works) talking into account atmospheres, orbital characteristics and other stuff.
Still, given where we stand now regarding exoplanet detection, it's not so bad using what we've got and work our way up from there.
The tax rate is only 16%. I'm moving there and opening up a palm-reading parlor!
Brilliant idea. I can't see how this can be a saturated sector in Romania. You'll make so much Romanian money! And their GDP looks awesome too!
And that is only to find a single transit. Then add another year to get the orbit, probably another year at least to confirm.
Well, probably yes, assuming they're looking for yearly (like Earth's) orbits. Makes a bit of sense, but an Earth-like planet might be closer or further away from its host star, and be perfectly OK for liquid water, life, all that (depending on the host star's energy output). Probably not very different from a year though, it rather depends on the sizes (mass and orbital radius) involved.
As for the confirmation, it might not get that long; since the dip might be a starspot or a different agent, a Doppler effect study (or astrometry, in the future) might confirm or dismiss it because, to some extent, different methods of detection can be used on the same source for confirmation. Though, on the Kepler mission, I think the confirmation is 'included' and the timeframe is set for 3 years.
To me it seems that it is going to be a very slow start (apart from these totally hotrock type planets with insanely quick orbit) but then the taps will be turned on and they will start finding exponentially more and more?
Hopefully yes. For the moment the methods of detection are biased- each of them is capable of locating specific groups of planets based on two parameters, those parameters being the planetary mass and its distance from its host star- there's also gravitational lensing that can 'see' better, but its a one-timer.
Encouragingly enough, if one plots the findings so far (mass vs orbital distance) it is not hard to imagine that the so far covered areas will start to expand. My point being that, before the Kepler mission, 'hot Jupiters' kept being the majority of bodies discovered, because they are the only ones we had the means detecting- Kepler has been watching the same patch of space, and it should see more than 'hot Jupiters' (provided they're out there and we are going around this the right way).
We need to realize what we are up against
True that. You need to realize that you're 'up against' your own paranoid disposition of seeing everybody as your enemy. You need to also realize that, provided you're not going to your own planet anytime soon, you could try LIVING WITH the rest of the world, instead of feeling like you're 'up against' it, and that bad chinese borg drone-people are after you, driven by their hive mind's hatred for your 'Land of Freedom'.
I can seriously not fathom how the hell you got +Insightful. I can only assume that that's the kind of 'insight' that got you in your suspicious 'us vs them' mindframe in the first place
For all other European Union countries (and Norway) [..]
Not all; Cyprus is EU, but not Schengen
(and Norway)
also Iceland and Switzerland. They are not EU, but still in Schengen.
Oh, it would be nice, wouldn't it? Or just invade them and force them to comply.
But they are a bit too large a country to be bitchslapped around- China is big enough to call the shots, and they know it
Plus, money is a faulty concept, a dirty business and all that, so I'm not surprised that nobody sheds a tear for the US being beaten at their own game.
No, not really. Just paper and gunpowder.
Dumbass.
Google is filing a patent for spamming.
this is the apex of copyright bullshit
I agree, but you have to understand how thorough Germans are in this and see it in context
"humming a song ? you need to pay us !"
This is not the context; the context is "using our song as teaching material? You need to pay us" (at least I hope it is)
Don't flame me! I also think this is too much.
.. and maybe use the power to operate communications or lighting gear.
Hahah I read "lightning gear"
Hydroelectric power > Solar power
The price gave me a shock.
.. and to "Year of Fusion"! Don't forget fusion!
Would you care to eleborate on that difference?
"The Mainframe" was hype 30 years ago. "The Cloud" is hype now. IMO 'The Cloud' is a marketing-coined term.
.. magazines at actual magazine size, and with "retina" resolution, pretty darn comparable to magazine look. And much improved newspaper layout ..
Don't even start comparing it to magazines and newspapers; that thing is unusable under sunlight.
Last year, the headline was "One Crime Solved Per 1,000 London CCTV Cameras"
I guess your point is that there are numerous ways to present results to outline the 'hint' one wants to pass to their audience? If so, you can't be more correct.
It would help to know the actual numbers without beating around the bush, but from what I understand London is quite the CCTV city- More than ten years back, some of my friends where approached by aggressive locals at a busy London street. My friends attacked them first because they were sure where the thing was going from the locals' attitude ("piss off you foreign piece of sh*t" and the like). The police was there in literally under 2 minutes, and my friends thought they were in more trouble. But the police immediately arrested the locals, because they had seen the whole thing through CCTV- which means they were not only watching, but were ready for field deployment.
Not exactly sure, I was an infant back then- but compared to prices for other PCs the price was ridiculous. In all fairness though, IMO it was the Schneider CPC 6128 that had the best cost vs usefulness ratio; there even where books on how to use its RS232 for robotics! A little later everybody was like "Atari ST this, Amiga 500 that", but the cost was forbidding (where I lived). I remember the 286 my father got for the family business cost a *fortune*.
To put this in context --with a car analogy =P --, the 286 cost was that of a mid-condition used western european-made car- and when the 386s where out, I remember the actual IBM-branded ones costing 3 to 4 times more that their 'IBM-compatible' counterparts and slightly more than a new eastern european-made car.
I should also highlight that both the IBM-branded PC and the eastern european-made car still work! (the western car is long gone)
(Fark you American car companies, you had your chance)
Ah noooo don't say that!! We here in Yurop have a soft spot for Pontiacs and Mustangs (have you seen the 2011 V6 model? Geezus!)
And there are highways here with no speed limits!
I never could understand why Spectrum was so popular.
It was damn cheap, that's why!
also, not according to Sharia law
Everything in the future will be analog. And World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
No, it will be with cybernetics, that-thing-that-fries-opponents-with-an-arc, flying cars and LOTS of slow-motion KungFu
Attacking is easy. Defense is hard. ( ex. Nuclear Weapons use)
Not true, numerous counterexamples; the simplest one being barricaded somewhere on a mountain with the weather on your side, batteries, ammo, a trustworthy sniper rifle, lots of food, and an internet connection (for your idle time between headshots)
"we see smth fishy, so we call someone who gives a crap"-
Please, PLEASE tell me that this is not what constitutes the patent- if it is, I think I missed the part where the patent+legal systems of the US went completely mad. Even more so, haven't banks been doing this for years now? (prior 'art' or whatever)