It is sort of like setting up an old dishwasher museum really.
There's one of those just a handful of blocks from me, but they diversified into refridgerators and stoves and I think that's what's keeping them going.
Old fridges are cool, as opposed to the modern kind which are intentionally designed to last for an average of 7 years.
I always liked the compromise of my FIAT 124 spider or Triumph GT6. Petite little chippies could slide right into the passenger seat, but 250 pound baboons couldn't even attempt it.
They screwed with the Miata by making it fit the average American. I hate that.
My old RD400 was cool too, not only could you fit the chippie on the back, but she had to hang on, and it was really easy to ditch her if she started to get too whiney.
you evil sod, i was completely unaware of such works. ..
Really? That's perennial undergraduate math teacher Tom Lehrer's "New Math."
As he explains it in his introduction to the song in the "New Math" the important thing is to understand what you're doing, rather than to get the right answer.
He procedes to do the problem in base 8 which, as he explains, is just like base 10 really -- if you're missing two fingers.
If you're unfamiliar with Tom Lehrer you really have to do something about that.
Oh, the Aztec wasn't so bad, not great, but not bad. Kind of a clunkier TVR 2500, which was a bit clunky itself, but in an endearing sort of way. The Aztec 7 was worse in my opinion, but some like that ultra-wedgey look. I'm more of a Maserati 300S, Porsche 550 Spyder curve loving sort of guy, although I can't deny that the Lotus 72 is lovely, but then, even though it's a wedge, most of its surfaces are actually curved for rigidity.
Oh, you mean that recent monstrosity from Pontiac, don't you? Sorry, hysterical amnesia.
Everytime I see one driving by I have to repress the urge to yell at the driver -- "WHY?"
By wearing my tinfoil hat too tight I missed my chance to have a coveted low ID# and posted AC for quite some time. Perhaps years, I'm not sure. Since loosening my hat and registering I do not recall ever posting as an AC. Maaaaaaaybe I did once when the option was first introduced to see how it worked. I'm not sure about that either.
Oh, wait. I remember posting as an AC not too long ago as part of a joke about posting as an AC.
I signed it.
I stand behind every pointless, brain dead, trollish and offtopic post I write, and with only one or two rare exceptions, so does my karma.
Oh, I've seen uglier cars and I really needn't name any of them, it would just incite flaming.
That said, if I were driving this thing I'd feel like I had to keep a look in the mirrors to make sure Dick Dasterdly and Muttly weren't trying to sneak up on me.
The last motorized three wheeler I built looked vaguely like a Surtees TS-7 and was convertable from internal combustion to electric, I never did bother making it road legal, it was just a "mule", and the next I expect to look vaguely like the Whitney Straight Maserati 8CM. That one I'm planning on making a hybrid. That's part electric and part pedal powered.
Personally, I prefer distros that still support X in some manner;).
E actly. It would seem a rather pointless and e treme measure to fail to support in some manner, at least lower case.
The Window System is also nice to have around, but if you at least have support you can always still work at the console, although that might suck on an Window System oriented distro like andros.
Especially since she could have avoided all that public ridicule by just calling it "Doesn't that suck?" or some such.
You know what I think sucks? When someone can write a song entitled "Isn't it ironic?", the "ironic events" described, not in fact being irnoies, but she makes more money from it than an English professor does in years of, apparently fruitlessly, trying to teach irony.
It's left handedly ironic though that such a song could move dicussion of the matter from its previously limited field of the dreaded freshman English paper to a matter of public debate, resulting in at least a few more people understanding irony.
See? Pop music is really educational. I've got to go out and get me one of them thar Britney Spears albums.
You certainly can't learn anything from the sort of music I listen to.
"You can't take three from two,
two is less than three,
so you look at the four in the tens place.
Now that's really four tens,
so you make it three tens,
regroup, and you change a ten to ten ones,
and you add them to the two and get twelve,
and you take away three, that's nine."
Thank God they don't put that sort of nonsense on the radio. It's bad enough in the classroom.
To the people who modded me Offtopic (and thus to others who might take that view as well) let me explictly point out that my above example rather exactly mimics that situation between AOL and the fired employee (except for the fact that AOL really knows he did it).
You may hire and fire whomever you chose and for whatever reason you choose unless there is come explicit term in a contract stating otherwise.
I used the example of a homeowner because it is something the average reader could directly relate to, which I found necessary because some people have a very peculiar idea of just what "employer" means.
It's just someone who gives you money for having done something for him. He's not under any obligation to hire you in the first place, or to keep you in his employ thereafter, as per a homeowner and a lawnboy.
Unless you think of yourself as some sort of endentured servant whom he "owns" and him as your "Lord."
Around these parts that sort of relationship is what's illegal.
Dude, you're forgetting the audience. Here, directly from a list of sysadmin virtues in the Armidillo book:
Laziness: Writing a 250 line Perl script to avoid typing 15 characters.
Elsewhere in the book we find a sidebar entitled:
Laziness Can Be a Virtue No one who isn't lazy writes shell scripts. Laziness motivates you to create new tools and utilities that make your job easier, more efficient, or even just more pleasant.
It was easy for me to find these quotes. The book caters to lazy sysadmins. They actually put "laziness" in the index.
Consider this sort of doing more work to get less done a "geek thing" and forget about it.
Oh come on. Where the hell is he going to get sheep in England?
Joking aside the parent post need not have been joking. You can actually hire lawn care people who use sheep and goats to trim lawns. They're very effective and can be used even in the rain. They're highly water resistent, as anyone who has ever worn a proper British fisherman's sweater can attest to. Different species of grazers actually eat grass to different hights as well, so you even get that choice and they automatically fertilize as they, ummmmmm, go. They can also be used for things other than trimming lawns, but I won't go into that here.
I fully understand the article poster's geeky itch to build a robot mower, but sheep are probably actually a more effective solution given his enviromental conditions.
We worry about rogue employees and about black hats. But we also worry about entire corporations, and about the government.
Of course. We worry especially about the latter, don't we? Especially when the government is the primary holder of the data in the first place and we already know they are untrustworthy.
Aren't we supposed to wait for someone to be found guilty before punishing them?
Homeowner: Look what you did to my lawn!
Lawnboy: Hey, you can't prove I did it. You were at work at the time. Cough up the twenty bucks mister.
Homeowner: Get the hell off my property, I don't ever want to see you again!
Lawnboy: Oh no mister, you don't get off that easy. I'll be back Tuesday to do it again and there's nothing you can do to stop me. Better be prepared to cough up another twenty bucks too, or I'll have your ass in court.
Homeowner: What the hell are you talking about? I can hire or not hire anyone to mow my lawn as I please.
Lawnboy: No you can't. I haven't been found guilty of anything.
Homeowner: Listen smartass, if you aren't off my property in one minute you will be absolutely guilty of trespassing and I'll a)call the cops and press charges and b) get my shotgun loaded with rock salt on my way back out of the house, because, lucky me, we have a "make my day" law in this state.
I never supposed that you were, which is why I wrote what I did when I noticed you'd been modded that way.
Every now and again clue.bat needs to be run.
(I'll point out though that I don't take it for granted that whoever modded you Funny supposed you were trying to be either. The truth can often be quite ammusing)
with large, easily searched and copied databases of highly consolidated private data.
The primary issue to be feared is not that someone who isn't trusted with the data will get ahold of it, but that someone who is trusted with the data will turn out to be untrustworthy.
The same goes for backdoors. I'm not half so worried about some script kiddie hacking my router as I am some employee/former employee of Cisco simply walking right in.
You've been modded as "Funny." I would have modded you as "Insightful," because yes, that is exactly what stdin is for.
In fact, if you look at the code and it's doing anything more than running stdin I'd say the programer didn't understand the console enviroment.
One of the possible negative results of more people raised in a graphical enviroment finding the joys and power of the console shell is that they'll expect to use the console shell in the same manner that they used the graphical shell and we'll see more "feeping creaturitus" in console apps.
Well, others have given good answers, so let me take the Socratic approach:
Why, except in a few rare cases, would you use a graphical enviroment for text based applications on a text cell based machine?
It seems terribly inconvenient.
Similarly, as a console user, I jumped into this thread expecting to be able to contribute, but have hit a snag. It seems that most console apps (if we except abandonware) are either under development or are considered done and are merely in maintenence mode.
Most of the work that goes into developing graphical enviroments is because they are graphical enviroments and must anticipate every possible use, and until they have provided a means for dealing with every possible use they are not "done."
A console application need only provide a means for the user to define his own use and the shell provides a means for combining those uses in an infinite number of ways.
"Convenience" is a relative term and can only be defined by your own needs and desires. If your WP has a button on it to make text bold you may well find that more convenient than typing a couple of tags (I, as it happens, do not. I can type tags while touch typing and not removing my fingers from "home". I consider that the very definition of convenience while dealing with text, which finally provides a direct answer to your actual question. If I rambled long enough it was bound to happen I guess).
If your WP does not provide such a button it may well be very inconvenient to wait for your application's publisher to provide you with one.
If you are working at the console it may then be convenient to have to write your own script to do what you desire, and the shell, Perl, C, etc. are provided for you at shell level so you can do that. This often applies even if the app is propriatary because ASCII is not. This is the benefit of open standards as opposed to open source.
Thus most console apps could be considered to be in heavy development all the time, not at the application level, but at the extension level, because people are free to extend them at will, and do. See CPAN.
Just as ideas of developing and distributing propriatary code may be logically absurd when applied to open source, ideas of graphical applications may be logically absurd when applied to a console application.
Slashdot Mirror
It is sort of like setting up an old dishwasher museum really.
There's one of those just a handful of blocks from me, but they diversified into refridgerators and stoves and I think that's what's keeping them going.
Old fridges are cool, as opposed to the modern kind which are intentionally designed to last for an average of 7 years.
KFG
I always liked the compromise of my FIAT 124 spider or Triumph GT6. Petite little chippies could slide right into the passenger seat, but 250 pound baboons couldn't even attempt it.
They screwed with the Miata by making it fit the average American. I hate that.
My old RD400 was cool too, not only could you fit the chippie on the back, but she had to hang on, and it was really easy to ditch her if she started to get too whiney.
KFG
you evil sod, i was completely unaware of such works. . .
Really? That's perennial undergraduate math teacher Tom Lehrer's "New Math."
As he explains it in his introduction to the song in the "New Math" the important thing is to understand what you're doing, rather than to get the right answer.
He procedes to do the problem in base 8 which, as he explains, is just like base 10 really -- if you're missing two fingers.
If you're unfamiliar with Tom Lehrer you really have to do something about that.
KFG
Oh, the Aztec wasn't so bad, not great, but not bad. Kind of a clunkier TVR 2500, which was a bit clunky itself, but in an endearing sort of way. The Aztec 7 was worse in my opinion, but some like that ultra-wedgey look. I'm more of a Maserati 300S, Porsche 550 Spyder curve loving sort of guy, although I can't deny that the Lotus 72 is lovely, but then, even though it's a wedge, most of its surfaces are actually curved for rigidity.
Oh, you mean that recent monstrosity from Pontiac, don't you? Sorry, hysterical amnesia.
Everytime I see one driving by I have to repress the urge to yell at the driver -- "WHY?"
KFG
Check out the Toyota Personal Mobility Vehicle.
Done up just a hair too futuristicly for my taste, but other than that, yeah, that's a loverly little bit of work.
Rather like a Schreder sailplane cockpit with wheels on.
KFG
Move to more solid ground, and you'll get a more stable version of slack.
True, but you won't get as much slack. The more slack, the less stability.
Those of us who like stability, but still like a bit of slack, move to Vermont.
KFG
By wearing my tinfoil hat too tight I missed my chance to have a coveted low ID# and posted AC for quite some time. Perhaps years, I'm not sure. Since loosening my hat and registering I do not recall ever posting as an AC. Maaaaaaaybe I did once when the option was first introduced to see how it worked. I'm not sure about that either.
Oh, wait. I remember posting as an AC not too long ago as part of a joke about posting as an AC.
I signed it.
I stand behind every pointless, brain dead, trollish and offtopic post I write, and with only one or two rare exceptions, so does my karma.
KFG
Oh, I've seen uglier cars and I really needn't name any of them, it would just incite flaming.
That said, if I were driving this thing I'd feel like I had to keep a look in the mirrors to make sure Dick Dasterdly and Muttly weren't trying to sneak up on me.
The last motorized three wheeler I built looked vaguely like a Surtees TS-7 and was convertable from internal combustion to electric, I never did bother making it road legal, it was just a "mule", and the next I expect to look vaguely like the Whitney Straight Maserati 8CM. That one I'm planning on making a hybrid. That's part electric and part pedal powered.
KFG
Personally, I prefer distros that still support X in some manner ;).
E actly. It would seem a rather pointless and e treme measure to fail to support in some manner, at least lower case.
The Window System is also nice to have around, but if you at least have support you can always still work at the console, although that might suck on an Window System oriented distro like andros.
KFG
Sorry, dont get it.
Watch more Black Adder.
KFG
Especially since she could have avoided all that public ridicule by just calling it "Doesn't that suck?" or some such.
You know what I think sucks? When someone can write a song entitled "Isn't it ironic?", the "ironic events" described, not in fact being irnoies, but she makes more money from it than an English professor does in years of, apparently fruitlessly, trying to teach irony.
It's left handedly ironic though that such a song could move dicussion of the matter from its previously limited field of the dreaded freshman English paper to a matter of public debate, resulting in at least a few more people understanding irony.
See? Pop music is really educational. I've got to go out and get me one of them thar Britney Spears albums.
You certainly can't learn anything from the sort of music I listen to.
"You can't take three from two,
two is less than three,
so you look at the four in the tens place.
Now that's really four tens,
so you make it three tens,
regroup, and you change a ten to ten ones,
and you add them to the two and get twelve,
and you take away three, that's nine."
Thank God they don't put that sort of nonsense on the radio. It's bad enough in the classroom.
KFG
So what's your point?
Humor.
KFG
Bah. Not Slackware X, not Slackware XP.
I'm waiting for Slackware XPalidocious myself.
Out here on the east coast we won't get the special edition slated for distribution in California, but I hear that one's not so stable anyway.
KFG
so surely what we should be suggesting is that he build robot sheep?
Well, but that just means he'll have to build an android to dream it up first, and then he wouldn't need the sheep anymore.
So I guess what I was really suggesting is that he build a robot -- a girl robot.
Unless he's a Scot, in which case your suggestion amounts to the same thing.
KFG
To the people who modded me Offtopic (and thus to others who might take that view as well) let me explictly point out that my above example rather exactly mimics that situation between AOL and the fired employee (except for the fact that AOL really knows he did it).
You may hire and fire whomever you chose and for whatever reason you choose unless there is come explicit term in a contract stating otherwise.
I used the example of a homeowner because it is something the average reader could directly relate to, which I found necessary because some people have a very peculiar idea of just what "employer" means.
It's just someone who gives you money for having done something for him. He's not under any obligation to hire you in the first place, or to keep you in his employ thereafter, as per a homeowner and a lawnboy.
Unless you think of yourself as some sort of endentured servant whom he "owns" and him as your "Lord."
Around these parts that sort of relationship is what's illegal.
KFG
Dude, you're forgetting the audience. Here, directly from a list of sysadmin virtues in the Armidillo book:
Laziness: Writing a 250 line Perl script to avoid typing 15 characters.
Elsewhere in the book we find a sidebar entitled:
Laziness Can Be a Virtue
No one who isn't lazy writes shell scripts.
Laziness motivates you to create new tools and utilities that make your job easier,
more efficient, or even just more pleasant.
It was easy for me to find these quotes. The book caters to lazy sysadmins. They actually put "laziness" in the index.
Consider this sort of doing more work to get less done a "geek thing" and forget about it.
KFG
How about a goat? Maybe a sheep?
Oh come on. Where the hell is he going to get sheep in England?
Joking aside the parent post need not have been joking. You can actually hire lawn care people who use sheep and goats to trim lawns. They're very effective and can be used even in the rain. They're highly water resistent, as anyone who has ever worn a proper British fisherman's sweater can attest to. Different species of grazers actually eat grass to different hights as well, so you even get that choice and they automatically fertilize as they, ummmmmm, go. They can also be used for things other than trimming lawns, but I won't go into that here.
I fully understand the article poster's geeky itch to build a robot mower, but sheep are probably actually a more effective solution given his enviromental conditions.
KFG
So could someone please inform me How the developers actually benefit from OSS.
Where did the developers get their development tools?
AHA!
KFG
That's ok. I don't need to take credit for your typos. I can produec an infinit suply of my won on drmand.
KFG
We worry about rogue employees and about black hats. But we also worry about entire corporations, and about the government.
Of course. We worry especially about the latter, don't we? Especially when the government is the primary holder of the data in the first place and we already know they are untrustworthy.
KFG
Aren't we supposed to wait for someone to be found guilty before punishing them?
Homeowner: Look what you did to my lawn!
Lawnboy: Hey, you can't prove I did it. You were at work at the time. Cough up the twenty bucks mister.
Homeowner: Get the hell off my property, I don't ever want to see you again!
Lawnboy: Oh no mister, you don't get off that easy. I'll be back Tuesday to do it again and there's nothing you can do to stop me. Better be prepared to cough up another twenty bucks too, or I'll have your ass in court.
Homeowner: What the hell are you talking about? I can hire or not hire anyone to mow my lawn as I please.
Lawnboy: No you can't. I haven't been found guilty of anything.
Homeowner: Listen smartass, if you aren't off my property in one minute you will be absolutely guilty of trespassing and I'll a)call the cops and press charges and b) get my shotgun loaded with rock salt on my way back out of the house, because, lucky me, we have a "make my day" law in this state.
Lawnboy: (sound of sonic boom)
KFG
I wasn't trying to be funny
I never supposed that you were, which is why I wrote what I did when I noticed you'd been modded that way.
Every now and again clue.bat needs to be run.
(I'll point out though that I don't take it for granted that whoever modded you Funny supposed you were trying to be either. The truth can often be quite ammusing)
KFG
with large, easily searched and copied databases of highly consolidated private data.
The primary issue to be feared is not that someone who isn't trusted with the data will get ahold of it, but that someone who is trusted with the data will turn out to be untrustworthy.
The same goes for backdoors. I'm not half so worried about some script kiddie hacking my router as I am some employee/former employee of Cisco simply walking right in.
KFG
You've been modded as "Funny." I would have modded you as "Insightful," because yes, that is exactly what stdin is for.
In fact, if you look at the code and it's doing anything more than running stdin I'd say the programer didn't understand the console enviroment.
One of the possible negative results of more people raised in a graphical enviroment finding the joys and power of the console shell is that they'll expect to use the console shell in the same manner that they used the graphical shell and we'll see more "feeping creaturitus" in console apps.
KFG
Well, others have given good answers, so let me take the Socratic approach:
Why, except in a few rare cases, would you use a graphical enviroment for text based applications on a text cell based machine?
It seems terribly inconvenient.
Similarly, as a console user, I jumped into this thread expecting to be able to contribute, but have hit a snag. It seems that most console apps (if we except abandonware) are either under development or are considered done and are merely in maintenence mode.
Most of the work that goes into developing graphical enviroments is because they are graphical enviroments and must anticipate every possible use, and until they have provided a means for dealing with every possible use they are not "done."
A console application need only provide a means for the user to define his own use and the shell provides a means for combining those uses in an infinite number of ways.
"Convenience" is a relative term and can only be defined by your own needs and desires. If your WP has a button on it to make text bold you may well find that more convenient than typing a couple of tags (I, as it happens, do not. I can type tags while touch typing and not removing my fingers from "home". I consider that the very definition of convenience while dealing with text, which finally provides a direct answer to your actual question. If I rambled long enough it was bound to happen I guess).
If your WP does not provide such a button it may well be very inconvenient to wait for your application's publisher to provide you with one.
If you are working at the console it may then be convenient to have to write your own script to do what you desire, and the shell, Perl, C, etc. are provided for you at shell level so you can do that. This often applies even if the app is propriatary because ASCII is not. This is the benefit of open standards as opposed to open source.
Thus most console apps could be considered to be in heavy development all the time, not at the application level, but at the extension level, because people are free to extend them at will, and do. See CPAN.
Just as ideas of developing and distributing propriatary code may be logically absurd when applied to open source, ideas of graphical applications may be logically absurd when applied to a console application.
KFG