His viewpoints and world outlook were thouroughly destroyed by Nome Chomsky when they publicly exchanged retorts after 9/11. Hitchens spends his time attacking people who can form their own opinions based on non-trivial facts because he appariantly finds it difficult to understand the world for himself.
He has become a right wing attack dog at worst and a lazy armchair critic at best.
These procedures need to be activated by the people in charge. The possibility of hijackers flying aircraft into various targets within the U.S was a known threat and there are most likely scenarios in place to handle such situations. First and formost would be to get our own military aircraft in the air and to designated locations where they can act quickly to intercept threats. 7 minutes is a long time to have the commander and chief finishing up the The Little Catapiller that Could to a bunch of school kids while 3 hijacked aircraft are apeeding off desiganted courses to their tagets.
The point is that while it's good to not act rashly you should at least _act_. You need to engage with the information, not just sit on your butt and wait for something _else_ to happen before you decide to do _anything_. Jesus. I remember quite clearly how incompitent and scared GWB looked during the crisis. I also remeber his attitude after taking office. He acted like a pompus privilaged prick, on vacation as much as he was in office. He was more concerned with discrediting the exiting clinton staff with sophmoric frat boy pranks than actually listening to them state the Bin Laden would accupy the majority of their counter terrorism efforts. They just took office and went on vacation. 911 made GWB, or I should say 911 created something with which GWB could be made.
History has "proven" nothing. But it has certainly shown that cooperation pays off big, even if it sets up the exploitative elements of society to take credit for and milk money from the vast resources and effort expended by those who came before them.
If you think history is just just a series of repetitios old themes I don't think your explorering your world very well.
We've come a long way baby!
(I'm simply skipping past your "communist utopia" straw man)
So true! I describe the 80's and 90's to people as a bout of binge drinking the industry went through. Now it's emerging from the back allies it passed out in (and got robbed in) squinting at the light of day and woundering what the heck happend.
I do the same kind of work as you and I actualy prefer using a thin client. Like I said in my post, the thin client is functioaly the same as having a complete desktop. Don't confuse thin clients with dumb terminals. I run the latest software I can get in a graphical desktop just as I would if I had a full blown desktop.
As for the silent part, if you have not experienced a solid state computer system ( and I mean no computer spinny things like fans and HDs anywhere) than I doubt you have experienced true computer silence.
It makes the same ad hominem attacks that it accuses Moore of making, does not back up it's cliams with references and is clearly as much of a "no-spin zone" as any ultra right wing conservative crack pot media outlet such as Rush Limbaugh's "no spin" talk shows.
And yes, I will leave it at that because thats my informed opinion on the matter and this is a web site whos foundation is opinion. If you want to know how I can reach the above conclusion, please go read the website you linked to and then attempt to map it's statements back onto the actual reality we live in.
I think you are seriously uninformed about what thin clients are, how well they perform and peoples willingness to use them.
I am writing this post on my daily workstation which is a 150MHZ Cyrix chip with 64MB of RAM, no HD and a 100mbps ethernet card. I share a 1ghz AMD server with 5 other people here who are using similiar thin client setups. I have a sweet 17" BenQ LCD Panel and a sexy KB and mouse. I can't even see the actual computer I am using, which is really just a bunch of computer guts in a drawer (with no fans so it's totaly silent).
People come to my desk, look at my screen and say "Wow! Nice technology!". I open the drawer and show them what it is running on and they get seriously confused and start asking all sorts of quesitons.
The point is that thin clients work for todays technology needs. What people really want is a computer they can count on to provide the types of applications they need to use in a reliable manner. Thin clients fit that bill perfectly. Not to mention the whole office is a breeze to administer, practicaly zero administration actually.
No Need to run PINE or a terminal, I run KDE 3.2.2 with Mozilla, OpenOffice, Evolution, Gimp, etc. etc. I can site down at any terminal in my office, log in to my account and get work done.
People come in off the street to use our public internet terminal and deal with Linux just fine. They feel they are using the latest technology because the LCD Monitor looks so jazzy. And frankly, they are using the latest technology because thin clients are the future.
What type of weat is growing in a farmers field should not be a question of patent law.
"but whether he acquired these seeds illegally or not. "
This is exactly the crazy type of situation people are fighting against. By "winning" this case Monsanto has managed to muddy the waters of "ownership" when it comes to such things as DNA and life.
This was a horrible decision by the court, no matter what the farmer did. In fact, the farmer should'nt even enter into the discusion.
While conceptualy this is interesting I think you would run into issues of compatibility using this model. How would you share a document with,say, a graph in it if the recipient did not purchase the graphing component. Worse still is that proprietary vendars, being what they have shown themselves to be, would make a serious mess of this situation by "hooking" various features together and most likely requiring more expense, more headache and less compatibility over all.
I remember many eons ago Apple was promoting the concept of OpenDoc, which was sort of like COM and Corba done right (well almost but never quite 'done'). I remember Microsoft's message at the time ( I think this even came from Bill G.) was that "people don't want to peice together applications from little components, they want an integrated suit". Almost a decade later, enter.NET, a twisty maze of little applets, all different.
Anyway, I think that the issues I am raising are solvable, but they will require some serious rethinking of how document formats are created and how applications interact with them in order to be resolved. Which is probably a good thing anyway.
We used to strugle with GNUCash at our business, then we switched to Quasar available at linuxcanada.com.
I have followed the GNUCash project from early on and I think what hurt them was a strong resistance to including business features early in the projects development. The community seemed to be crying for it and they really squandered a lot of momentum by resisting it.
Anyway, Quasar is not Open Source, but it is cheap for business ($30 US), has some add ons like POS, and is free for personal use. It's also client/server UNIX daemon based and is multi user.
No, the judge does not get to decide, the contract is clear and Novel reserves the right to "act on SCO's behalf" if SCO fails to follow Novel's wishes in this case. And the judge is "she".
Cold turkey is the way to go, hands down. However, what I found was that I could sort of "trick" my body into gentler withdrawls by drinking a coffee substitute, and lots of it!
Some great substitutes:
Roast Aroma, Celestial Seasonings Tea.
Take a Break, a Bigalo Tea similiar to Roast Aroma.
Pero, a barley based drink that comes in a powder. Very good but is drying, not good in mass quantities like the teas
Part of the "addiction" for me is simply having a warm cup 'o something harty enough to stand up to milk.
As has also been mentioned elsewhere, drink lots of water. More than you think you could stand. Concider it part of your therapy.
Around the time of the first Next Generation episode I was studying cults and there effects on the individual and society. About 5 minutes into the first episode of TNG, watching the way the command structure worked on the bridge, I remember an uneasy feeling that it seemed very Scientology'esk. I was soon to find that Scientologist has in fact over run the whole Star Trek franchise, writers, actors and from what I heard producers. Watching the show a few more times I noticed words made up by Scientology finding there way into the scripts, like when Data has a problem with a memory "Engram". An "Engram" is a past memory ( potentialy trillions of years old, yes, they are crazy ) that is blocking your potential in the current time. The removal of these "Engrams" is part of an elborate brain washing scheme that Scientology uses to take control of your life ( and money ). But I digress.
In short, I agree, bring back the grit! Bring back the humanity! Bring back Phasor Diplomacy!
BTW, here is a link that describes the Scientology Star Trek connection. The connection is described about half way down the document. Go to the page and search for "trek".
This is significant because in SCO's reply to IBM's interrogatory where they ask SCO to identify any contributions they have made to Linux, with specifity, SCO replied:
"[as far as SCO knows] SCO has never authorized, approved or knowingly released any part of the subject code that contains or may contain its confidential and proprietary information and/or trade secrets for inclusion in any Linux kernel or as part of any Linux distribution."
If IBM can show this to be untrue, or that SCO should have been able to produce at least something it is going to look very bad for SCO. In effect SCO is claiming that they do not even know what their own employees are doing. So much for a "highly screened" and managed team of coders. Seeing as RCU, NUMA and SMP are the subject code as claimed by SCO, this helps prove that they have failed or are unwilling to adiquatly repsond to IBM's questioning.
The big question of course is how long can SCO Chewbacca dance themeselves around the court room. Oral arguments concerning the motions to compel are this Friday, a potential day of reconing for SCO. So we shall see what the judge has to say regarding all this very soon.
"I agree 100%. You sound like you would also agree, ya?"
No, actually I do not agree with the reparations argument. I think it is silly and simple minded. However I know the underlying issues are very real, even in this day. when the economic effects of racism become apparent the issue suddenly becomes a whole lot clearer.
Regarding your upbrining I will never try to take away from someones experiences in their own life. You say your life was hard and I beleive it. It's just that a black person would have the added disadvantage of working against a system that is racist. I'm not saying that every person is a bigot, but in totality the American system is very hard on non-whites.
"The question as to whether or not 'Reparations' is a good idea is no longer relevant as they have already been made in a very large way. The question becomes - ok, now what?"
First of all, does'nt it seem the hight of arrogaince for the USA to "give" land in Africa to freed American slaves? What rights does the USA have over the lands it used to create Liberia? Second, there were millions of people in the USA who were do reparations. Thirdly, this does not deal with the problem of racism at all. There are so many problems with the Liberia policy that it is simply to much to get into.
The question of reparations has certainly not been settled. The post WWII economic issues I refered to in my previous post were not settled by the founding of Liberia.
"The basics for black prosperity in three easy steps:"
Oh dear. Suffice it to say that I do not agree with this.
"but it is asinine to call me racist just because I use a certain word"
Yes indeed. I don't want to push anymore hot buttons because I am largely done with this thread. Thanks for taking the time to argue this out for a bit.
Let me just close by stating that if someone had a problem with me using the "master/slave" terminolgy I would not use it. If American history were different I might just give a quisical look and ask what the deal is. But american history is what it is and I really don't need to stretch to far to see where the sentiment comes from.
It may be a white person or anyone who has a problem with the terms BTW. For example, I even cringe sometimes but then maybe I'm just more sensitive to the issues than most. Obviously I spend time thinking about issues of racism.
Anyway, I think I understand the "in your face" attitude your were expressing by using the very words that canote racism while simultaniously claiming you are not racist, which btw I'm not accusing you of ( we are all subject to it at certain levels ). I just don't really agree with the line of reasoning that leads to those statements as the very power of such a statement is dependent on the existaince of racism in the first place. But that discusion is for another ranting perhaps. In the end we are all just trying to figure out whats best.
"I hold the belief (without much good reason) that after another generation or two, everyone around during segregation will be dead."
Time will hopefully heal all wounds. It does seem that the world is headed for a more equitable future, but it's not for the lack of effort of millions of people.
"Are we truly seeing the problem or is it just the symptoms? Really, no one can answer that,"
Must... resist... temptation... to counter...!;)
"I apologize for being a..."
Don't bother, this is Slashdot. They can smell your fear.
thanks for having this descusion out with me a few rounds. I've learned some things from the torrent of posts on this issue.
Thanks for the article link, it was an interesting read.
From the article:
"Logical stereotyping
One such reason for questioning the wisdom of affirmative action is that the widespread use of preferences can logically be expected to erode the perception of black competence."
"Notice that a lower hiring threshold for blacks causes the outside market to reduce its estimate of the productivity of black successes, since, on average, less is required to achieve that status."
This is a racist view of affirmative action and illustrates the very mind set that it was implemented to combat. The goal of Affirmative Action is simply the redistrabution of wealth, opportunity and social connections. All the things Mr. Loury mentions in his article. Affirmative Action is not something that is expected to exist for all time. Thus there will be a beginning, a middle and an ending to the process. We are somewhere between the beginning and the middle I think. This is a dangerous time because the reasons for first implementing it are not as clear yet the fruits of the end game have not yet been harvested.
Mr. Loury suggests spending money on improving black colleges and training opportunities for blacks. That is certainly a hard case to argue against and I won't. By all means spend the money. However, it does nothing to combat the exclusionary racism that exists in the hiring process and so the less ideal but more practical quotas of Affirmative Action are still needed.
Regarding his comments concerning the Asian community, with all do respect, Asians were not enslaved to the level that the people of Africa were. There is not the same dynamic to the racism that exists between whites and blacks. Black people were specificaly targetted by white people for lynchings, burnings and all forms of horrible crimes.
You wrote
"I think maybe you don't understand what PetWolverine is trying to say. He is saying the means do not acheive the end."
I understand his argument, he just does'nt understand that he is describing a form of racism.
PetWolverien Wrote:
"They simply read the news, hear time and again of racial minorities making life difficult for their employers, and become wary of hiring them."
That is the racist mindset. These are the people who are the problem, not the job applicants. These people need to be dragged kicking and screeming if necessary into the modern world.
He is also ignoring the evils that are trying to be redressed. He would rather skip to the end game where we all live in a post racism world and nobody is discriminated against. But we can't just skip to the end, we have to the work in the middle. Not everyone is going to like it. Especialy those who have the most to loose in the process. But there is an inequity here in the form of historic disenfranchisement and soceity is attempting to correct it. Progress has been made, but judging from the news and anger here on Slashdot their is still quite a ways to go.
I'm not saying you need to go out into the world and dedicate your life to ant-racist work in order to make up for something you personaly were not involved in. What is importaint, as a citizen of a country, is to recognise that countries problems and at least not directly argue against their resolution.
"However, a lot of time has passed since slavery was abolished, and there have been recessions and booms in the economy."
Governmental racism ended at least by letter of the law in the 60's, well within the current generations "window if impact" so to speak.
As for how you are benefitting by being white you simply won't see it, and thats the point. There are obsticles and inequities that you don't see when you try and get hired for a job, or get pulled over by the cops or find yourself in court. I'm not saying it's easy for you, or for me, but it's harder for a minority and the reason is racism.
For a more detailed look at the economic argument I have been making please see the second paragraph of this other post here. .
"'You're a dirty fucking racist because you ignore others' problems. Have a Nice Day.' (BTW, I know you didn't swear at all or implicitly insult anyone, but that seems like the tone.)"
No, I don't mean to say that. I actually felt similiar to some of the people that are posting here until I really did some investigation a few years ago and had an "aha" moment with regards to the economics and other less obvious aspects of modern day racism. I'm a little disturb at how willing people are to totaly fly of the handled wih regards to this issue, but than again, racism has never been a particularly easy issue to talk about, so I add salt to taste.
Kind Regards
BTW: I say "Kind Regards" mainly to remind myself to stay as civil as possible
The reason I thought you might be trolling was because you claimed there was no reason that more blacks go to prison than whites. There is a reason and the reason is racism. It just seemed like a classic Troll. It also highlights the importaince of being clear with language, which is really what the story submission is about. If you do not think that racism is the reason for the disproportionat prison populations than you should explain what you think is. But I can assure you there is a reason.
"...please tell me what you honestly believe needs to be fixed instead."
The problems are many but let me focus on the concept behind "Reparations" in order to illustrait my point.
People who benefitted from racism in the USA were able to build equity in things such as land and business opportunities. These opportunities were not available to minorities. For example, white soldiers returning from WWII were eligible for low cost mortgages and educational loans that were not made available to black people. So while a generation of suburban white families were building family wealth and educating their young, black families were not sharing in the rush of prosparity following WWII.
Fast forward to today and you have inner city families living in the projects with children who may wounder why they are in the position that their in. Why don't their families have any wealth? Were they just lazy and stupid while the rest of the country was partaking in the post WWII economic boom?
When there is an economic disenfranchisement of this sort it goes well beyond the racism of individuals and becomes an institutional racism. It causes the symptoms you mentioned in your list like drug use, gangs, etc. These are repsonses to an unfair and unequitable system. Those symptoms can feed a racist feedback loop to those who identify them as the cause. This creates a level of individual racism that compounds and confuses the core issues which is that some people have been denied equal access to the opportunities that would help them improve their lives.
Now, "reparations" is supposed to undo the economic despartity that has been in place since slavery. It is also trying to make good an a Governmental promise of 40 acres and a mule for all freed slaves, which never was really implemented. Now, whether it is practicable or even the right thing to do is certainly questionable but the problem it is trying to redress is very real and quantifiable.
Getting back to the IDE "master/slave" thing I am mainly just a little shocked at the level disregard I see coming from this community. It is a testiment to the amount of work that still needs to be done on the front of racism.
"In the context of this entire thread we find that you are pointing at the symptoms, while I am pointing at the problem."
No, it's just that you don't understand what the problem is.
"Now because this disease has been allowed to grow undiagnosed and unchecked in America..."
Racisim has not been growing unchecked, it has been receeding. It's been a long hard fought process of education, legislation and activism in order to change a government that had legal racism to one that at least rejects it by the letter of the law. There is much less racism today than there was in the past. There is still more work to be done but you are, off the bat, completely backwards.
"It only took 19 arabs to make most of America angry enough at most arabs to let Bush unleash the dogs of war and overthrow an entire government in Iraq."
A perfect example of why latent racism is so dangerous. 19 Saudis attack America and America overthrows Iraq. I'm beginning to worry you are a Troll.
As for your list, it is a list of symptoms.
"Entitlement Attitude"
wow, as if white people don't have that attitude. Just dumbfunding blindness on your part.
"Crime Rates - statistically 25% of all black men in the nation GO TO PRISON during some part of their life - there is no reason for that (contrast white males at 4%.)"
"This is not meant as a troll or flamebait, by the way. If you think it is, I suggest you re-read it carefully, trying to follow the logic of each argument and forget your bias."
Nope, I don't think it is a troll. It's just that your head is in the sand, which is the most comfortable place for white people in America to keep them. That way we don't have to know history and understand the impacts of our (USA's) development as a nation and how it disenfranchised a huge population of exploited people.
"The victims of racism can also encourage racism by giving racists grounds for their claims. "
Why should an anti-racists walk on eggshells because some racist prick is going to cry foul? The racist elements in the USA are not simply going to stand asside and welcome a more equitable world. They are going to fight tooth and nail to hold on to the gains they have received from exploiting other people.
It's up to you to understand the issues and not just side line them because you don't think they effect you. You may not concider your self a racist, but if you are white in America you are benefitting from a racist system and your innaction on attempting to undo those elements that are benefitting you because of your skin color is tacit support of racism, at best. Ignorance is not an excuse I hope you would be comfortable with.
"Isn't it a bit egotistical to assume that "slave" must refer to a black person?"
It does'nt. But American history is'nt going to change and the people living in the american present are connected to that past.
"Or if you don't prefer my paraphrasing, master is 'one that has control over another or others' and slave is 'one who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."
Unless of course the slaves rise up, kill the master take his horses and flee north. Now that I think about, thats probably what happend to the server last night. It's not a good analogy unless you deny the humanity, wills and desires of the slave. These are deep thoughts for an IDE controler but it's not the IDE controler that suffered under slavery either.
Don't you think it is odd that the term "master/slave" is so accepted, and even defended by the populace of a country that benefitted from slavery more than any other in the modern era. Don;t you think that maybe the angst against the use of this term is actually part of a larger cultural movement that maybe you would do well to research?
Slashdot Mirror
His viewpoints and world outlook were thouroughly destroyed by Nome Chomsky when they publicly exchanged retorts after 9/11. Hitchens spends his time attacking people who can form their own opinions based on non-trivial facts because he appariantly finds it difficult to understand the world for himself.
He has become a right wing attack dog at worst and a lazy armchair critic at best.
Kind Regards
These procedures need to be activated by the people in charge. The possibility of hijackers flying aircraft into various targets within the U.S was a known threat and there are most likely scenarios in place to handle such situations. First and formost would be to get our own military aircraft in the air and to designated locations where they can act quickly to intercept threats. 7 minutes is a long time to have the commander and chief finishing up the The Little Catapiller that Could to a bunch of school kids while 3 hijacked aircraft are apeeding off desiganted courses to their tagets.
The point is that while it's good to not act rashly you should at least _act_. You need to engage with the information, not just sit on your butt and wait for something _else_ to happen before you decide to do _anything_. Jesus. I remember quite clearly how incompitent and scared GWB looked during the crisis. I also remeber his attitude after taking office. He acted like a pompus privilaged prick, on vacation as much as he was in office. He was more concerned with discrediting the exiting clinton staff with sophmoric frat boy pranks than actually listening to them state the Bin Laden would accupy the majority of their counter terrorism efforts. They just took office and went on vacation. 911 made GWB, or I should say 911 created something with which GWB could be made.
Kind Regards
try, try again.
History has "proven" nothing. But it has certainly shown that cooperation pays off big, even if it sets up the exploitative elements of society to take credit for and milk money from the vast resources and effort expended by those who came before them.
If you think history is just just a series of repetitios old themes I don't think your explorering your world very well.
We've come a long way baby!
(I'm simply skipping past your "communist utopia" straw man)
Kind Regards
"My only real problem is that once I finish using a computer, nobody else wants it."
;-)
well I want it! It would make a decent thin client
Kind Regards
"And the past"
So true! I describe the 80's and 90's to people as a bout of binge drinking the industry went through. Now it's emerging from the back allies it passed out in (and got robbed in) squinting at the light of day and woundering what the heck happend.
Kind Regards
I do the same kind of work as you and I actualy prefer using a thin client. Like I said in my post, the thin client is functioaly the same as having a complete desktop. Don't confuse thin clients with dumb terminals. I run the latest software I can get in a graphical desktop just as I would if I had a full blown desktop.
As for the silent part, if you have not experienced a solid state computer system ( and I mean no computer spinny things like fans and HDs anywhere) than I doubt you have experienced true computer silence.
Kind Regards
It makes the same ad hominem attacks that it accuses Moore of making, does not back up it's cliams with references and is clearly as much of a "no-spin zone" as any ultra right wing conservative crack pot media outlet such as Rush Limbaugh's "no spin" talk shows.
And yes, I will leave it at that because thats my informed opinion on the matter and this is a web site whos foundation is opinion. If you want to know how I can reach the above conclusion, please go read the website you linked to and then attempt to map it's statements back onto the actual reality we live in.
Kind regards
I think you are seriously uninformed about what thin clients are, how well they perform and peoples willingness to use them.
I am writing this post on my daily workstation which is a 150MHZ Cyrix chip with 64MB of RAM, no HD and a 100mbps ethernet card. I share a 1ghz AMD server with 5 other people here who are using similiar thin client setups. I have a sweet 17" BenQ LCD Panel and a sexy KB and mouse. I can't even see the actual computer I am using, which is really just a bunch of computer guts in a drawer (with no fans so it's totaly silent).
People come to my desk, look at my screen and say "Wow! Nice technology!". I open the drawer and show them what it is running on and they get seriously confused and start asking all sorts of quesitons.
The point is that thin clients work for todays technology needs. What people really want is a computer they can count on to provide the types of applications they need to use in a reliable manner. Thin clients fit that bill perfectly. Not to mention the whole office is a breeze to administer, practicaly zero administration actually.
No Need to run PINE or a terminal, I run KDE 3.2.2 with Mozilla, OpenOffice, Evolution, Gimp, etc. etc. I can site down at any terminal in my office, log in to my account and get work done.
People come in off the street to use our public internet terminal and deal with Linux just fine. They feel they are using the latest technology because the LCD Monitor looks so jazzy. And frankly, they are using the latest technology because thin clients are the future.
Kind Regards
What type of weat is growing in a farmers field should not be a question of patent law.
"but whether he acquired these seeds illegally or not. "
This is exactly the crazy type of situation people are fighting against. By "winning" this case Monsanto has managed to muddy the waters of "ownership" when it comes to such things as DNA and life.
This was a horrible decision by the court, no matter what the farmer did. In fact, the farmer should'nt even enter into the discusion.
Kind Regards
While conceptualy this is interesting I think you would run into issues of compatibility using this model. How would you share a document with ,say, a graph in it if the recipient did not purchase the graphing component. Worse still is that proprietary vendars, being what they have shown themselves to be, would make a serious mess of this situation by "hooking" various features together and most likely requiring more expense, more headache and less compatibility over all.
.NET, a twisty maze of little applets, all different.
I remember many eons ago Apple was promoting the concept of OpenDoc, which was sort of like COM and Corba done right (well almost but never quite 'done'). I remember Microsoft's message at the time ( I think this even came from Bill G.) was that "people don't want to peice together applications from little components, they want an integrated suit". Almost a decade later, enter
Anyway, I think that the issues I am raising are solvable, but they will require some serious rethinking of how document formats are created and how applications interact with them in order to be resolved. Which is probably a good thing anyway.
Kind Regards
I have followed the GNUCash project from early on and I think what hurt them was a strong resistance to including business features early in the projects development. The community seemed to be crying for it and they really squandered a lot of momentum by resisting it.
Anyway, Quasar is not Open Source, but it is cheap for business ($30 US), has some add ons like POS, and is free for personal use. It's also client/server UNIX daemon based and is multi user.
Kind Regards
No, the judge does not get to decide, the contract is clear and Novel reserves the right to "act on SCO's behalf" if SCO fails to follow Novel's wishes in this case. And the judge is "she".
Some great substitutes:
Part of the "addiction" for me is simply having a warm cup 'o something harty enough to stand up to milk.
As has also been mentioned elsewhere, drink lots of water. More than you think you could stand. Concider it part of your therapy.
Kind Regards
In short, I agree, bring back the grit! Bring back the humanity! Bring back Phasor Diplomacy!
BTW, here is a link that describes the Scientology Star Trek connection. The connection is described about half way down the document. Go to the page and search for "trek".
Kind Regards
"[as far as SCO knows] SCO has never authorized, approved or knowingly released any part of the subject code that contains or may contain its confidential and proprietary information and/or trade secrets for inclusion in any Linux kernel or as part of any Linux distribution."
If IBM can show this to be untrue, or that SCO should have been able to produce at least something it is going to look very bad for SCO. In effect SCO is claiming that they do not even know what their own employees are doing. So much for a "highly screened" and managed team of coders. Seeing as RCU, NUMA and SMP are the subject code as claimed by SCO, this helps prove that they have failed or are unwilling to adiquatly repsond to IBM's questioning.
The big question of course is how long can SCO Chewbacca dance themeselves around the court room. Oral arguments concerning the motions to compel are this Friday, a potential day of reconing for SCO. So we shall see what the judge has to say regarding all this very soon.
Kind Regards
No, actually I do not agree with the reparations argument. I think it is silly and simple minded. However I know the underlying issues are very real, even in this day. when the economic effects of racism become apparent the issue suddenly becomes a whole lot clearer.
Regarding your upbrining I will never try to take away from someones experiences in their own life. You say your life was hard and I beleive it. It's just that a black person would have the added disadvantage of working against a system that is racist. I'm not saying that every person is a bigot, but in totality the American system is very hard on non-whites.
"The question as to whether or not 'Reparations' is a good idea is no longer relevant as they have already been made in a very large way. The question becomes - ok, now what?"
First of all, does'nt it seem the hight of arrogaince for the USA to "give" land in Africa to freed American slaves? What rights does the USA have over the lands it used to create Liberia? Second, there were millions of people in the USA who were do reparations. Thirdly, this does not deal with the problem of racism at all. There are so many problems with the Liberia policy that it is simply to much to get into.
The question of reparations has certainly not been settled. The post WWII economic issues I refered to in my previous post were not settled by the founding of Liberia.
"The basics for black prosperity in three easy steps :"
Oh dear. Suffice it to say that I do not agree with this.
Kind Regards
Yes indeed. I don't want to push anymore hot buttons because I am largely done with this thread. Thanks for taking the time to argue this out for a bit.
Let me just close by stating that if someone had a problem with me using the "master/slave" terminolgy I would not use it. If American history were different I might just give a quisical look and ask what the deal is. But american history is what it is and I really don't need to stretch to far to see where the sentiment comes from.
It may be a white person or anyone who has a problem with the terms BTW. For example, I even cringe sometimes but then maybe I'm just more sensitive to the issues than most. Obviously I spend time thinking about issues of racism.
Anyway, I think I understand the "in your face" attitude your were expressing by using the very words that canote racism while simultaniously claiming you are not racist, which btw I'm not accusing you of ( we are all subject to it at certain levels ). I just don't really agree with the line of reasoning that leads to those statements as the very power of such a statement is dependent on the existaince of racism in the first place. But that discusion is for another ranting perhaps. In the end we are all just trying to figure out whats best.
Kind Regards
Time will hopefully heal all wounds. It does seem that the world is headed for a more equitable future, but it's not for the lack of effort of millions of people.
"Are we truly seeing the problem or is it just the symptoms? Really, no one can answer that,"
Must... resist... temptation... to counter...! ;)
"I apologize for being a..."
Don't bother, this is Slashdot. They can smell your fear.
thanks for having this descusion out with me a few rounds. I've learned some things from the torrent of posts on this issue.
Kind Regards
From the article:
"Logical stereotyping
One such reason for questioning the wisdom of affirmative action is that the widespread use of preferences can logically be expected to erode the perception of black competence."
"Notice that a lower hiring threshold for blacks causes the outside market to reduce its estimate of the productivity of black successes, since, on average, less is required to achieve that status."
This is a racist view of affirmative action and illustrates the very mind set that it was implemented to combat. The goal of Affirmative Action is simply the redistrabution of wealth, opportunity and social connections. All the things Mr. Loury mentions in his article. Affirmative Action is not something that is expected to exist for all time. Thus there will be a beginning, a middle and an ending to the process. We are somewhere between the beginning and the middle I think. This is a dangerous time because the reasons for first implementing it are not as clear yet the fruits of the end game have not yet been harvested.
Mr. Loury suggests spending money on improving black colleges and training opportunities for blacks. That is certainly a hard case to argue against and I won't. By all means spend the money. However, it does nothing to combat the exclusionary racism that exists in the hiring process and so the less ideal but more practical quotas of Affirmative Action are still needed.
Regarding his comments concerning the Asian community, with all do respect, Asians were not enslaved to the level that the people of Africa were. There is not the same dynamic to the racism that exists between whites and blacks. Black people were specificaly targetted by white people for lynchings, burnings and all forms of horrible crimes.
You wrote
"I think maybe you don't understand what PetWolverine is trying to say. He is saying the means do not acheive the end."
I understand his argument, he just does'nt understand that he is describing a form of racism.
PetWolverien Wrote:
"They simply read the news, hear time and again of racial minorities making life difficult for their employers, and become wary of hiring them."
That is the racist mindset. These are the people who are the problem, not the job applicants. These people need to be dragged kicking and screeming if necessary into the modern world.
He is also ignoring the evils that are trying to be redressed. He would rather skip to the end game where we all live in a post racism world and nobody is discriminated against. But we can't just skip to the end, we have to the work in the middle. Not everyone is going to like it. Especialy those who have the most to loose in the process. But there is an inequity here in the form of historic disenfranchisement and soceity is attempting to correct it. Progress has been made, but judging from the news and anger here on Slashdot their is still quite a ways to go.
Kind Regards
"However, a lot of time has passed since slavery was abolished, and there have been recessions and booms in the economy."
Governmental racism ended at least by letter of the law in the 60's, well within the current generations "window if impact" so to speak.
As for how you are benefitting by being white you simply won't see it, and thats the point. There are obsticles and inequities that you don't see when you try and get hired for a job, or get pulled over by the cops or find yourself in court. I'm not saying it's easy for you, or for me, but it's harder for a minority and the reason is racism.
For a more detailed look at the economic argument I have been making please see the second paragraph of this other post here. .
"'You're a dirty fucking racist because you ignore others' problems. Have a Nice Day.' (BTW, I know you didn't swear at all or implicitly insult anyone, but that seems like the tone.)"
No, I don't mean to say that. I actually felt similiar to some of the people that are posting here until I really did some investigation a few years ago and had an "aha" moment with regards to the economics and other less obvious aspects of modern day racism. I'm a little disturb at how willing people are to totaly fly of the handled wih regards to this issue, but than again, racism has never been a particularly easy issue to talk about, so I add salt to taste.
Kind Regards
BTW: I say "Kind Regards" mainly to remind myself to stay as civil as possible
"...please tell me what you honestly believe needs to be fixed instead."
The problems are many but let me focus on the concept behind "Reparations" in order to illustrait my point.
People who benefitted from racism in the USA were able to build equity in things such as land and business opportunities. These opportunities were not available to minorities. For example, white soldiers returning from WWII were eligible for low cost mortgages and educational loans that were not made available to black people. So while a generation of suburban white families were building family wealth and educating their young, black families were not sharing in the rush of prosparity following WWII.
Fast forward to today and you have inner city families living in the projects with children who may wounder why they are in the position that their in. Why don't their families have any wealth? Were they just lazy and stupid while the rest of the country was partaking in the post WWII economic boom?
When there is an economic disenfranchisement of this sort it goes well beyond the racism of individuals and becomes an institutional racism. It causes the symptoms you mentioned in your list like drug use, gangs, etc. These are repsonses to an unfair and unequitable system. Those symptoms can feed a racist feedback loop to those who identify them as the cause. This creates a level of individual racism that compounds and confuses the core issues which is that some people have been denied equal access to the opportunities that would help them improve their lives.
Now, "reparations" is supposed to undo the economic despartity that has been in place since slavery. It is also trying to make good an a Governmental promise of 40 acres and a mule for all freed slaves, which never was really implemented. Now, whether it is practicable or even the right thing to do is certainly questionable but the problem it is trying to redress is very real and quantifiable.
Getting back to the IDE "master/slave" thing I am mainly just a little shocked at the level disregard I see coming from this community. It is a testiment to the amount of work that still needs to be done on the front of racism.
Kind Regards
No, it's just that you don't understand what the problem is.
"Now because this disease has been allowed to grow undiagnosed and unchecked in America..."
Racisim has not been growing unchecked, it has been receeding. It's been a long hard fought process of education, legislation and activism in order to change a government that had legal racism to one that at least rejects it by the letter of the law. There is much less racism today than there was in the past. There is still more work to be done but you are, off the bat, completely backwards.
"It only took 19 arabs to make most of America angry enough at most arabs to let Bush unleash the dogs of war and overthrow an entire government in Iraq."
A perfect example of why latent racism is so dangerous. 19 Saudis attack America and America overthrows Iraq. I'm beginning to worry you are a Troll.
As for your list, it is a list of symptoms.
"Entitlement Attitude"
wow, as if white people don't have that attitude. Just dumbfunding blindness on your part.
"Crime Rates - statistically 25% of all black men in the nation GO TO PRISON during some part of their life - there is no reason for that (contrast white males at 4%.)"
Ok, your a Troll, have a nice day.
Kind Regards
Yup, won't do at all. I guess that just was'nt my primary point. ( no pun intended, really ).
Kind Regards
Nope, I don't think it is a troll. It's just that your head is in the sand, which is the most comfortable place for white people in America to keep them. That way we don't have to know history and understand the impacts of our (USA's) development as a nation and how it disenfranchised a huge population of exploited people.
"The victims of racism can also encourage racism by giving racists grounds for their claims. "
Why should an anti-racists walk on eggshells because some racist prick is going to cry foul? The racist elements in the USA are not simply going to stand asside and welcome a more equitable world. They are going to fight tooth and nail to hold on to the gains they have received from exploiting other people.
It's up to you to understand the issues and not just side line them because you don't think they effect you. You may not concider your self a racist, but if you are white in America you are benefitting from a racist system and your innaction on attempting to undo those elements that are benefitting you because of your skin color is tacit support of racism, at best. Ignorance is not an excuse I hope you would be comfortable with.
Kind Regards
It does'nt. But American history is'nt going to change and the people living in the american present are connected to that past.
"Or if you don't prefer my paraphrasing, master is 'one that has control over another or others' and slave is 'one who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."
Unless of course the slaves rise up, kill the master take his horses and flee north. Now that I think about, thats probably what happend to the server last night. It's not a good analogy unless you deny the humanity, wills and desires of the slave. These are deep thoughts for an IDE controler but it's not the IDE controler that suffered under slavery either.
Don't you think it is odd that the term "master/slave" is so accepted, and even defended by the populace of a country that benefitted from slavery more than any other in the modern era. Don;t you think that maybe the angst against the use of this term is actually part of a larger cultural movement that maybe you would do well to research?
Kind Regards