As pointed out in earlier comments, college tuition has gone up faster than inflation and wages
In my experience, the career advice you get is crap. Job boards/recruiters are mostly worthless once you get out of college, since these avenues are mostly looking for people with specific experience, even if you have a technical degree. Employers/HR/Recruiters are generally unwilling to use unorthodox ways of finding people and unwilling to hire/train new grads.
I also think college may not be as rigorous as it once was. But, it's a fine line between "rigor" and "trade school" in many cases.
What TFA is stating is nice and all, but until you can get hiring managers, recruiters and other HR types to stop recruiting solely on the latest buzzwords you'll have this problem.
Even though you may not have programmed Java or C# in a professional environment, doesn't mean that you are not qualified. You may have plenty of exp. in other languages and the mental capacity to solve problems. The syntax is the easy part. May non-techie/manager types fail to understand this.
Quoting from your post:
"Even WITH offshoring Software Engineering is one of the ONLY segments of the US economy that is still hiring and has a serious shortage of qualified people."
I think you need some additional quantifiers here - employers set the bar high and don't want to pay for a rockstar. There will always be a shortage of the super highly skilled/niche programmers, and these people will easily find jobs because of their highly skilled/niche status.
Also, employers are unwilling to recognize transferrable skills and adverse to having promotions/employee development. For example, I know people that are stuck programming VB 6 because their employer doesn't want to upgrade to the new fangled.Net stuff. When employees want to look for a new job, they are told "Sorry, you don't have.Net exp." so they are stuck supporting crappy apps, even though they could be an above average programmer.
I also thought I read somewhere that colleges and universities are graduating enough people in computing related fields to fill computing related jobs. If this is true, then the shortage is less of an issue.
So in conclusion, there is only a shortage of people that are highly skilled and have real world exp. in what you're specifically looking for, and willing to accept your pay. All others need not apply.
There's no investment in long term growth. It's all about "let's sell our soul for a profitable quarter."
There's no long term R&D and employee development. And it doesn't help when the government has hit all time highs as far as debt/deficits.
Ain't that the truth.
It seems like "real world experience in the specific hot technology of today" is the golden calf. Degree's and transferrable skills be damned.
Maybe I'm just jaded.
Then you are in the minority, I guess.
I'm not saying there are not oppurtunities...
However, it's discouraging to read job descriptions and have recruiter's either get your hopes up or told by them that companies don't want you because your experience doesn't fit the typical molds.
I was in school during the boom and graduated (in 3.5 years) in Dec. 2001.
During the boom years, I'd get called every couple of weeks for internship oppurtunites. When the bust hit, it was like pulling teeth. And trying to find a real job was painful - so painful, that I stayed on an extra year and a half to get an MS degree in a related field.
And it's been hit or miss since then. It seems like companies are more adverse to actually training/investing in staff then they were evevn 10-12 years ago.
... befor these newly minted CS people?
It seems that every company doesn't want anything to do with recent grads or those that want to change fields/jobs within it (i.e. moving up from say help desk or QA) .
Because a lot of employers want actual "work expereince" in specific areas. They don't care if you actually have transferable skills (i.e. you're a proven problem solver, can think out of the box, etc. which are all things PhD's have proven).
Also, there is a preception that people with advanced degrees are "overqualified" and will leave for perceived greener pastures. Again, this is a crock, and code words for poor behaviour on the part of the employer.
Is there seems to be an unwillingness to do any type of employee development.
I've seen job ads that require umteen years of experience in X, Y and Z. It's the old chicken and egg problem - how do you get the real world experience if no one is willing to hire you? This is a problem many college graduates or people looking to move up/change the directions of their careers.
I know, I know, some of you are going to ask, "Why invest time and money to train people, they are just going to leave?" How about making a less hostile work environment and paying fair market rates (or going out and paying a little more than that)? This even applies to your more senior people - many of them will be willing to jump ship if their voice isn't heard or aren't being challenged, or not being paid enough. Also, this is a very naive approach as many jobs in a lot of places fall under at-will employment. Manangement expects 100% loyalty, but wants the flexibility to fire under-performers and lay people off when revenues/profits are down. Therefore, the "they'll just quit ayways" is just a cop out for bad behaviour.
Lastly. I've seen/interviewed for positions that want BS degrees, prefer MS degrees, but basically amount to help desk positions. Then the employer is hostile to your salary range, and your long term career goals (i.e. possibility of moving into progect management or development or systems/network admin). Of course, they then complain about not finding qualified people - Duh, most people with the qualifications you'd like are either not going to apply (why work a help desk?), going to treat it as a foot in the door or going to want to be paid comiserate with experience.
There are people out there who have the education/experience and are willing to learn. However, it makes my blood boil when people claim there is an IT/Engineer/Science/Math worker shortage.
Have to agree with you here.
I don't have a problem with metered usage.
But the problem, it seems, is that providers don't seem to be providing overage charges based on current market rates. For example, when the cost of oil goes up, I expect my heating/electric bills to go up and the cost to fill my car up with gas to increase. Conversely, when the cost of oil decreases, that's usually reflected at the pump as well (maybe not as fast as we'd like)
I am with you there.
I would like to expand my knowledge/career. However, most of the stuff I'm being contacted about is 1-1.5 year contract with the possibility of being perm'ed. By the time I learn something, and start to get really good at it, I may be out on the street, which you never know with this economy.
Slashdot Mirror
At the risk of feeding the troll... It should support more modern hardware than Slackware from 1993.
I run OpenBSD/amd64 on a small Intel Atom box as a firewall.
It is lightweight, fast and reliable - so it's served me well.
There are several variables at play here...
As pointed out in earlier comments, college tuition has gone up faster than inflation and wages
In my experience, the career advice you get is crap. Job boards/recruiters are mostly worthless once you get out of college, since these avenues are mostly looking for people with specific experience, even if you have a technical degree. Employers/HR/Recruiters are generally unwilling to use unorthodox ways of finding people and unwilling to hire/train new grads.
I also think college may not be as rigorous as it once was. But, it's a fine line between "rigor" and "trade school" in many cases.
Apple was able to maintain backwards compatibility when they changed processors.
It's so 1995
Now if I could get into said market if it is healthy ;-)
What TFA is stating is nice and all, but until you can get hiring managers, recruiters and other HR types to stop recruiting solely on the latest buzzwords you'll have this problem.
Even though you may not have programmed Java or C# in a professional environment, doesn't mean that you are not qualified. You may have plenty of exp. in other languages and the mental capacity to solve problems. The syntax is the easy part. May non-techie/manager types fail to understand this.
Quoting from your post:
"Even WITH offshoring Software Engineering is one of the ONLY segments of the US economy that is still hiring and has a serious shortage of qualified people."
I think you need some additional quantifiers here - employers set the bar high and don't want to pay for a rockstar. There will always be a shortage of the super highly skilled/niche programmers, and these people will easily find jobs because of their highly skilled/niche status.
Also, employers are unwilling to recognize transferrable skills and adverse to having promotions/employee development. For example, I know people that are stuck programming VB 6 because their employer doesn't want to upgrade to the new fangled .Net stuff. When employees want to look for a new job, they are told "Sorry, you don't have .Net exp." so they are stuck supporting crappy apps, even though they could be an above average programmer.
I also thought I read somewhere that colleges and universities are graduating enough people in computing related fields to fill computing related jobs. If this is true, then the shortage is less of an issue.
So in conclusion, there is only a shortage of people that are highly skilled and have real world exp. in what you're specifically looking for, and willing to accept your pay. All others need not apply.
There's no investment in long term growth. It's all about "let's sell our soul for a profitable quarter." There's no long term R&D and employee development. And it doesn't help when the government has hit all time highs as far as debt/deficits.
Ain't that the truth. It seems like "real world experience in the specific hot technology of today" is the golden calf. Degree's and transferrable skills be damned. Maybe I'm just jaded.
Then you are in the minority, I guess. I'm not saying there are not oppurtunities... However, it's discouraging to read job descriptions and have recruiter's either get your hopes up or told by them that companies don't want you because your experience doesn't fit the typical molds.
I was in school during the boom and graduated (in 3.5 years) in Dec. 2001. During the boom years, I'd get called every couple of weeks for internship oppurtunites. When the bust hit, it was like pulling teeth. And trying to find a real job was painful - so painful, that I stayed on an extra year and a half to get an MS degree in a related field. And it's been hit or miss since then. It seems like companies are more adverse to actually training/investing in staff then they were evevn 10-12 years ago.
... befor these newly minted CS people? It seems that every company doesn't want anything to do with recent grads or those that want to change fields/jobs within it (i.e. moving up from say help desk or QA) .
Because a lot of employers want actual "work expereince" in specific areas. They don't care if you actually have transferable skills (i.e. you're a proven problem solver, can think out of the box, etc. which are all things PhD's have proven). Also, there is a preception that people with advanced degrees are "overqualified" and will leave for perceived greener pastures. Again, this is a crock, and code words for poor behaviour on the part of the employer.
News at 11.
Very good points as well. I have seen this happen from my own experiences in the corporate world.
Is there seems to be an unwillingness to do any type of employee development.
I've seen job ads that require umteen years of experience in X, Y and Z. It's the old chicken and egg problem - how do you get the real world experience if no one is willing to hire you? This is a problem many college graduates or people looking to move up/change the directions of their careers.
I know, I know, some of you are going to ask, "Why invest time and money to train people, they are just going to leave?" How about making a less hostile work environment and paying fair market rates (or going out and paying a little more than that)? This even applies to your more senior people - many of them will be willing to jump ship if their voice isn't heard or aren't being challenged, or not being paid enough. Also, this is a very naive approach as many jobs in a lot of places fall under at-will employment. Manangement expects 100% loyalty, but wants the flexibility to fire under-performers and lay people off when revenues/profits are down. Therefore, the "they'll just quit ayways" is just a cop out for bad behaviour.
Lastly. I've seen/interviewed for positions that want BS degrees, prefer MS degrees, but basically amount to help desk positions. Then the employer is hostile to your salary range, and your long term career goals (i.e. possibility of moving into progect management or development or systems/network admin). Of course, they then complain about not finding qualified people - Duh, most people with the qualifications you'd like are either not going to apply (why work a help desk?), going to treat it as a foot in the door or going to want to be paid comiserate with experience.
There are people out there who have the education/experience and are willing to learn. However, it makes my blood boil when people claim there is an IT/Engineer/Science/Math worker shortage.
Have to agree with you here. I don't have a problem with metered usage. But the problem, it seems, is that providers don't seem to be providing overage charges based on current market rates. For example, when the cost of oil goes up, I expect my heating/electric bills to go up and the cost to fill my car up with gas to increase. Conversely, when the cost of oil decreases, that's usually reflected at the pump as well (maybe not as fast as we'd like)
I think the problem has to do with DRM.
Wasn't the PC supposed to die like 15 years ago?
I am with you there. I would like to expand my knowledge/career. However, most of the stuff I'm being contacted about is 1-1.5 year contract with the possibility of being perm'ed. By the time I learn something, and start to get really good at it, I may be out on the street, which you never know with this economy.
Laptops cook your testies, now this?
Once SCO gets rid of this division, what will they sell, exactly?
I think you have that reversed there buddy...
I was walking to the printer and couldn't feel it. However, all my co-workers who were sitting could feel it.